Abuz Zubair
28th April 2004, 02:07 PM
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IslamicAwakening.Com Discussion Board: Islaam in general: Topics started in July 2000: On the hadeeth of Najd
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By UmNusayba on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 12:09 am: Edit
By UmNusaybah on Sunday, July 2, 2000 - 03:46 pm:
assalaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu
Insha'Allaah this should clarify some of the misconceptions surrounding the well known hadeeth of Najd.
The Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said, "O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Shaam. O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Yemen." The people said, "O Messenger of Allaah, and our Najd." I think the third time the Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam,said "There (in Najd) will occur earthquakes, trials and tribulations, and from their appears the Horn of Satan."
Reported in al-Bukhaaree [Book of Trials, Chpt. ‘The afflictions will come from the East’ 9/166 no. 214 Eng. Trans]
A hadeeth which has some controversy surrounding it due to obvious sectarian reasons. A hadeeth which has been (deliberately)misunderstood by certain groups of people in order that they may spread their misguidance and deceive ignorant Muslims.
This because upon research and investigation and looking to the words of our early scholars we find that this hadeeth does not refer to the Najd that is famously known in Saudi today, but rather it refers to Iraaq.
About two years ago I read a book entirely devoted to this hadeeth entitled, "an-Najd Qarnu ash-Shaytaan" [I cannot remember the author as I do not have the book on me anymore.] I will quote in general from what I remember from this book, and refrain from mentioning precise quotes except
from those references that I have on me.
Amongst the scholars that are mentioned who referred this hadeeth to Iraaq were: al-Khattaabee, al-Kirmaanee, al-Aynee, an-Nawawee, Ibn Hajr and others. The reasons behind this are numerous and clear:
1) The generality of the hadeeth pertaining to the fitna coming from the east.
Al-Bukhaaree includes this hadeeth in the chapter: "The affliction will appear from the East"
212) From the father of Saalim: The Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, stood up besides the pulpit (and pointed towards the east) and said: "Afflictions are there! Afflictions are there! From where appears the horn of Satan" or he said, "the horn of the Sun"
213) From ibn Umar that he said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alyahi wa sallam, saying while facing the east: "Indeed Afflictions are there, from where appears the Horn of Satan."
214) The hadeeth of Najd under discussion.
Similar ahaadeeth can be found in Saheeh Muslim (volume 4 no’s 6938+). Ahaadeeth that give the same meaning can be found in Saheeh Muslim (volume 1 no’s 83+)
2) That the generality of the early trials and tribulations arose from the east, many of them actually in Iraaq itself.
Ibn Hajr al-Asqalaanee said after quoting the words of al-Khattaabee explaining the meaning of Qarn (horn), "and others have said that the People of the East were disbelievers at that time and the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, informed us that the trials and tribulations would arise from that direction and it was as he said. And the first of the trials that arose, arose from the direction of the east and they were the reason for the splitting of the Muslim ranks, and this is what Satan loves and delights in. Likewise the innovations appeared
from that direction." [Fath al-Baaree 13/58 in commentary to the hadeeth of Najd]
Amongst the trials that arose in Iraaq and the east was the martyrdom of Alee, the martyrdom of the grandson of the Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, the first battle between the Muslims occurred in Iraaq, and many more.
Imaam Nawawee mentions that one of the greatest trials to appear from the East will be the appearance of the Dajjaal. [Sharh Saheeh Muslim 2/29]
From the innovations that appeared in the east and specifically Iraaq, were many of the early deviant sects amongst them the Qadariyyah (as the first hadeeth in Muslim shows), the Jahmiyyah and their offshoots etc…
3. That at the time of the Prophet, sallaahu alayhis wa sallaam, there were 13 places known as Najd [according to ‘Najd Qarn ash-Shaytaan’] depending on where one was. This because Najd linguistically means a raised/elevated land.
Therefore the Arabs referred to lands that were elevated with respect to them as Najd. One of the most commonly referred to areas as Najd at that time was Iraaq.
4. The Najd for those people living in Madeenah in the direction of the East would be Iraaq.
Ibn Hajr said: "al-Khattaabee said: ‘the najd in the direction of the east, and for the one who is in Madeenah then his Najd would be the desert of Iraaq and it’s regions [baadiya al-Iraaq wa Nawaaheehaa] for this is to the east of
the People of Madeenah. The basic meaning of Najd is that which is raised/elevated from the earth in contravention to al-Gawr for that is what is lower than it. Tihaamah [the coastal plain along the south-western and southern shores of the Arabian Peninsula] is entirely al-Gawr and Mecca is in Tihaamah.’"
Ibn Hajr continues, "by this [saying of al-Khattaabee] the weakness of the saying of ad-Daawodee is understood that ‘Najd is in the direction of Iraaq’ [min Naahiya al-Iraaq] for he suggests that Najd is a specific place. This is not the case, rather everything that is elevated with respect to what adjoins it is called Najd and the lower area called Gawr."[Fath al-Baaree 13/58-59]
Al-Haafidh al-Mubaarakfooree endorses these words in his commentary to Sunan at-Tirmidhee (10/314 no.4212)
5. The hadeeth in Saheeh Muslim [4/1505 no.6943]
Saalim bin Abdullaah bin Umar said: O people of Iraaq, how strange is it that you ask about the minor sins but commit the major sins? [The killing of al-Husayn] I heard my father,Abdullaah bin Umar narrating that he heard the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, saying while pointing his hand to the east: "Indeed the turmoil would come from this side, from where appear the horns of Satan and you would strike the necks of one another…"
6. The variations in wording of the hadeeth of Najd that leave no doubt whatsoever as to what it refers to.
The hadeeth of ibn Umar Reported by Abu Nu`aym in al-Hilya (6/133), "O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Madeenah, and bestow your blessings on our Mecca, and bestow your blessings on our Shaam, and bestow your blessings on our Yemen, and bestow your blessings in our measuring (fee saa`inaa wa muddinaa)." A person said, " O Messenger of Allaah and in our Iraaq" and so he turned away from him and said, "there will occur earthquakes, trials and tribulations and there will appear the horn of Satan."
Shu`ayb al-Arna`ut declares it’s isnaad to be saheeh as in his footnotes to ‘Sharh as-Sunnah’ (14/206-207 fn. 2) and he too endorses the words of al-Khattaabee quoted above.
The hadeeth of ibn Umar reported in at-Tabaraanee in ‘al-Awsat’ that the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam prayed Fajr and then faced the people and said, "O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Madeenah, O Allaah bestow your blessings in our measuring, O Allaah bestow your
blessings in our Shaam and our Yemen." A person said, "And Iraaq O Messenger of Allaah?" He said, "from there arises the horn of Satan and the trials and tribulations would come like mounting waves."
Ibn Hajr al-Haythamee says in his ‘Mujma az-Zawaa`id’ (3/305 – chapter ‘collection of du`aas made for (Madeenah)’): ‘its narrators are trustworthy and precise.’
[This hadeeth could possibly considered to be the same as b) above, but I have included it separately due to the slight difference in wording. Allaah knows best.]
The hadeeth of ibn Abbaas reported by at-Tabaraanee in ‘al-Kabeer’ that the Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, supplicated and said, "O Allaah bestow your blessings on our
Shaam and Yemen." A person from amongst the people said, "O Prophet of Allaah and Iraaq?" He said, "indeed there is the Horn of Satan, and the trials and tribulations will come like mounting waves, and indeed harshness/coarseness is in
the east."
Al-Haythamee says: "it’s narrators are trustworthy and precise." (ibid.)
7. The virtues of Bani Tameem
Bani Tameem constitute the majority of the inhabitants of the Najd that is in Saudi Arabia.
The hadeeth of Saheeh Bukhaaree reported by Abu Hurayra (RA): "I have loved the people of the tribe of Bani Tameem, ever since I heard three things the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said about them. I heard him
saying, ‘these people (of the tribe of Bani Tameem) would stand firm against the Dajjaal.’ When the Saddaqat from that tribe came, the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa
sallam, said, "these are the Saddaqat (charitable gifts) of our folk." Aa`ishah had a slave girl from that tribe, and the Prophet , sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said to Aa`ishah, ‘manumit her as she is a descendant of Ismaa`eel, alayhis salaam.’" [Hadeeth no. 2543, 4366 of al-Fath]
Ibn Hajr al-Asqalaanee said, "this hadeeth also contains a clear mention of the excellence and superiority of Bani Tameem." [Fath 5/217]
The hadeeth of Ikrimah from one of the Companions reported in the Musnad of Imaam Ahmad and in it occurs, "do not say of Bani Tameem anything but good, for indeed they are the severest of people in attacking the Dajjaal."
Al-Haythamee says: "its narrators are those ofthe Saheeh." [Mujma 10/48 chpt: What is reported concerning Bani Tameem]
It is not strange that Bani Tameem would be the most severe against the Dajjaal, because the tools required to combat him are none but a correct and firm belief and proper beneficial knowledge. Alhumdolillaah many of the scholars of
Saudi are from the most noble and skilled scholars on the face of this earth today, firmly upon the way of our noble Messenger, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam.
This is what Allaah has allowed me to very quickly put together. And our Lord Most High Knows best.
By Clear salafi contradictions on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 02:49 am: Edit
By Clear salafi contradictions on Sunday, July 9, 2000 -
01:12 am:
Assalamu alaykum
It is interesting that the sister quotes from Imam Nawawi and Ibn Hajar Asqalani (may Allah have mercy on them both) to support the argument of the Ahl-ul-Nadj that the Hadith refers to Iraq.
I am puzzled because both Imam Nawawi and Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani were of the "deviant"Ashari' aqeeda and thus are considered innovators and beyond the pale by most salafis- why quote from them then -just because its suits your argument?
The hadith clearly states Najd - not Iraq -why are salafis now resorting to ta'wil (which they condemn the Ashari's for) to deny its true meaning!!
What is you opinion of the hadith where the Prophet(saw) says that the armies of the Dajjal will come from a particular area and he(saw) points to the location where Medina University (established 1974) is currently situated!!
It be interested in your response to these points.
By Decisive proof on the location of Najd on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 02:48 am: Edit
By Decisive proof on the location of Najd on Sunday, July 9, 2000 - 01:28 am:
The question was asked:
b.. Under what circumstances did the Prophet Muhammad
(PBUH) first offer
the qunut prayer?
The answer was given (in the same post):
"The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) first made the qunut when 70
Muslim da'ees,
who had been sent to teach the tribes of Ra'l, Dhakwan and
Usiyyah, were
treacherously murdered by them.
"These clans had wilfully misled the Prophet into sending 70
of the most
able Muslim teachers into a death trap, by claiming they had
embraced
Islam. The Prophet was extremely saddened by this calamity
and invoked
Allah's curse and chastisement on these tribes.
"The qunut al-nazilah started thus off as an imprecatory
prayer, calling
Divine punishment on the tyrants who butchered innocent
people and the
prayer was offered after rising from the ruku (bowing)
position in the
compulsory daily salah."
End of excerpt.
The above is all true, but it should be noted that the clans
in question
were all from Najd, and that the massacre of the Sahaba took
place in
Najd.
`Amir ibn Malik came to the Prophet (SAWS) in the 4th year
of the Hijra,
neither accepting nor rejecting Islam. Instead he said: "O
Muhammad! If
you send some of your Companions to the people of Najd to
call them to
your affair, I have hope that they shall respond favorably
to you." The
Prophet (SAWS) replied: "Truly I fear for them [harm] from
the people of
Najd" (inni aksha `alayhim ahla Najd).
This establishes without DOUBT that the Prophet(saw)
consider Najd to be the Najd of Saudi - The Sahaba's never
fought in Iraq during his lifetime(saw)
`Amir said: "I proclaim that they
are under my protection." The Prophet (SAWS) then sent
seventy men from
the elite of the Muslims. They travelled until they alighted
at the Well
of Ma`una, at which time they sent Haram ibn Malhan with the
letter of the
Messenger of Allah (SAWS) to `Amir ibn al-Tufayl. The latter
did not look
at the letter but instead killed Haram ibn Malhan. Then he
called upon the
Banu `Amir for assistance to kill the rest of the Muslim
group, but they
declined to challenge `Amir ibn Malik's protectorate. So
`Amir ibn
al-Tufayl called upon the tribes of Sulaym: `Usayya, Ra`l,
Dhakwan, and
they responded to him. They formed an expedition and
surrounded the group
with their mounts. The Muslims were killed to the last man
but for `Amr
ibn Umayya al-Dumari who returned to Madina. The Prophet
(SAWS) was deeply
affected by their death and remained supplicating (yaqnutu)
for one month
during the dawn prayer against the Sulaym tribes: Ra`l,
Dakwan, Banu
Lahyan, and `Usayya.
The story is told in Fiqh al-Sira (p. 254-255).
By Zubayr on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 02:52 am: Edit
By Zubayr on Monday, July 10, 2000 - 01:09 am:
Bismillah
Reply to 'Clear Salafi Contradiction'
As salaamu alaykum
>I am puzzled because both Imam Nawawi and Ibn >Hajar Al-Asqalani were of the "deviant"Ashari' >aqeeda and thus are considered innovators and >beyond the pale by most salafis- why quote from >them then -just because its suits your argument?
I love to read this type of statement over and over again. Perhaps the statement of Shaykh ibn Uthaymeen regarding these two Shaykhs (May Allah have mercy upon them) is best in this case:
"The two shaikhs and preservers of the religion have their place of prominence, honesty and great benefit for the Muslim nation. Even if they made some mistake in reinterpreting some of the texts mentionting the attributes [of Allah], such mistakes are covered and immersed by what they had of virtue and great benefit. We suspect that what they stated was only the result of their own personal ijtihaad and a permissible form of interpretation - at least in their view. I hope from Allah that such are forgiven mistakes; and I hope that the good and benefit that came from them will be efforts that are rewarded and appreciated by Allah; and I hope that Allah's words will apply to them, 'Verily, the good deeds remove the evil deeds' [Hood 114]. We are of the opinion that they are both from Ahlul Sunnah
wal-Jam'aah and this is evidenced by their service to the sunnah of the Messenger (SAAS), their eagerness to purify it from the wrong that had been attributed to it and their implementation of its rulings. They differed from the leaders of Ahlul-Sunnah with respect to some verses and hadeeth concerning attributes [of Allah] based on a mistaken ijtihaad and we hope that Allah will deal with them with forgiveness and pardon." [Kitaab ul-Ilm]
So I am sure that the above sure the true position regarding our beloved Imaams (May Allah have mercy upon them) and that taking knowledge from them, particularly in hadeeth, in which they are muhadditheen, is clearly allowed.
>The hadith clearly states Najd - not Iraq -why >are salafis now resorting to ta'wil (which they >condemn the Ashari's for) to deny its true >meaing!!
Where is the tawil?? Do you read our sister, UmNusayba's initial post? Let me quote for you...
"3. That at the time of the Prophet, sallaahu alayhis wa sallaam, there were 13 places known as Najd [according to ‘Najd Qarnu ash-Shaytaan’] depending on where one was. This because Najd linguistically means a raised/elevated land.
Therefore the Arabs referred to lands that were elevated with respect to them as Najd. One of the most commonly referred to areas as Najd at that time was Iraaq."
So we have established that Iraaq was amongst those that were given the name Najd...Next...
4. The Najd for those people living in Madeenah in the direction of the East would be Iraaq.
"Ibn Hajr said: "al-Khattaabee said: ‘the najd in the direction of the east, and for the one who is in Madeenah then his Najd would be the desert of Iraaq and it’s regions [baadiya al-Iraaq wa Nawaaheehaa] for this is to the east of the People of Madeenah."
So let me weigh this up...the muhadditheen (Imaams of hadeeth of our Islam) say Najd = Iraaq and you say Najd = not Iraaq and of course, what a suprise you give no evidence...Need I say whom we should stick to??!
>What is you opinion of the hadith where the >Prophet(saw) says that the armies of the Dajjal >will come from a particular area and he(saw) >points to the location where Medina University >(established 1974) is currently situated!!
Now this one really got me!! I am yet to find a hadeeth (authentic or inauthentic) where the Prophet (SAAS) said that the army of the Dajjal would come from Madinah. All I could find was,
Anas ibn Malik : Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) said: The Dajjal would be followed by seventy thousand Jews of Isfahan wearing Persian shawls.
Muslim 7034
Now Isfahan, and please correct if I am wrong, is in Iran.
In fact all I could find about the Dajjal and Madinah was ahadeeth of how the Dajjal will be unable to enter it [Bukhari 9/247, 3/103, 9/240 and more].
By Mahi on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 02:59 am: Edit
By Mahi on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 02:33 am:
Sister Um Nusayba - re point 4:
I am well aware of Ibn Hajar's words, and his conclusion is that the word Najd does not refer to a specific place but to the Eastern direction
from Madina, and that it lexically means every elevated place, i.e. mountains. Ibn Hajar's conclusion is not that it means Iraq.
Anyway, I am surprized that you cling with such insistence to the words of a scholar when we have firsthand evidence from`Umar and Ibn `Abbas
(RAA) that the Miqat (place of entering Ihram) for the people of Najd is Qarn al-Manazil, while the Miqat of the people of Iraq is Dhatu `Irqin. If Iraq and Najd are one and the same place, how come their Miqats are two different places?
And aside from `Umar and Ibn `Abbas,(may Allah be pleased with them both) did you not read the words of the Prophet (SAWS) himself when he made du`a al-qunut against the Sulaym clans of
Najd: Ra‘l, Dakwan, Banu Lahyan, and ‘Usayya tribes? Were these tribes in Iraq?
Ibn Hajar said "And the first of the trials that
arose, arose from the direction of the east ...."
The first great fitna that came from the East was Musaylima the Liar from the Banu Hanifa tribes in Yamama. Was this in Iraq? Of course the most recent fitna which came from Najd was when the wretched Saud clan and Abdul Wahab colluded
with the British and rebelled against the legitamate Caliph of the day ( The Wahabbis colluding with kuffar against muslims ?!? sounds familiar..? Gulf War 1991, Southern Sudan, OPEC, etc, etc)
And of course the CIA-funded secular "Saudi Salafi" dawa is weakening and causing great fitna amongst the Muslims all over the world in our own time
As Ibn Hajar said about the Nejdis "... and they were the reason for the splitting of the
Muslim ranks, and this is what Satan loves and delights in".
As well as the two posts to your original message these are other strong proofs that you evidently are not aware of or choose to ignore
wasalaam
Your brother
By Abuz-Zubair al-'Azzami (Admin) on Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:06 pm: Edit
By Abuz-Zubair al-'Azzami (Admin) on Wednesday, July 19,
2000 - 02:33 am:
as-Salaamu 'Alaikum brother Mahi.
You said:
>
I don't think you are well aware of what Ibn Hajr has said
in Fath, for if you were, then I wonder how, the explicit
mentioning of Iraaq, can escape your eyes!
Why not mention the Hadeeth which Ibn hajr quotes from
Saheeh Muslim, narrated by Saalim Ibn Abdillah Ibn 'Umar -
may Allah be pleased with them both - who said: "O people of
'Iraaq! You enquire about minor sins, while commit major
sins! I heard my father, 'Abdullah Ibn 'Umar say, "I heard
the Messenger of Allah SAW say: Indeed the Fitnah will come
from right here! and he pointed with his hand towards the
east, where the horn of Satan will arise" (Fath 13/59)
Why did Ibn Hajr pick a Hadeeth in reference to Iraaq and
place it under the topic of the Hadeeth of Najd, if Najd and
Iraaq are two seperate places?
As for your statement:
>
Here you are mixing the practicalities of Hajj, with the
Hadeeth regarding fitan, where Ibn Hajr has explicitly
quoted a narration and statements of the Salaf explicitly
saying that "the direction of east" is understood to be in
the direction of Iraaq. So when the intent of "Najd" is
already explained then why refer to a totally different
chapter, and pick out a Hadeeth totally irrelevant to the
topic, in order to cover up what has already been
established by Ibn Hajr?
Seondly, even when Ibn Hajr opined that "Najd" is any
elevated land, then what gave you the right to restrict Najd
to the Arabian peninsula?
Then you totally misquote Ibn Hajr, knowing fully well the
deception you are playing... and you say:
>
Why not end the quote of Ibn Hajr? Why shy away from it? Let
me complete the quote of Ibn Hajr for you...
"The first of the Fitan was from the direction of the east,
which was due to split amongst the Muslims, and that is from
what Shaitaan loves and becomes happy with"
As you can clearly see, Ibn Hajr is talking about the
"fitnah" and NOT the blessed Jihaad that took place between
Abu Bakr and Musaylimah the liar - as you falsely claimed,
which is further affirmed by Ibn Hajr when he says, "which
was due to split amongst the Muslims". Do you regard the
fighting between the Muslims and the apostate army of
Musaylimah to be a split amongst the Muslims?
I really hope not, because the fight between Musaylimah and
Abu Bakr ra is regarded to be Jihaad by the Ijmaa, and not
fitnah. Rather the first fitnah that Ibn Hajr is talking
about is the Fitnah of the Khawaarij, who broke away from
'Alee ra and refused to follow him to Koofah, and stopped at
a place called Huroorah, close to Koofah in 'Iraaq. They
were were the first innovators in the Islaamic history, and
the first sect amongst the Muslims.
This is further confirmed by Ibn Hajr when he goes on to
say, "Similarly, Bid'a appeared from that area".
It is a fact that the Khawaarij came from 'Iraaq, the Shi'ah
came from 'Iraaq, the Murji`ah came from 'Iraaq, the
Mu'tazilah, Qadariyah and in our time, Ba'athiyah, they all
came from 'Iraaq.
I say that you intentionally misquoted Ibn Hajr, because
there wasn't a paragraph or two between the statement, "And
the first of the trials that
arose, arose from the direction of the east ...." and the
continuation of that statement which you yourself quoted
near the end of your post where he said, "... and they were
the reason for the splitting of the Muslim ranks, and this
is what Satan loves and delights in". This shows that you
were fully aware of the entire statement, but you chose to
cut-and-paste to change the intended meaning, may Allah
forgive us all.
Then you say:
>
I think you need to revise your history, as the British
never got involved with Aal-Sa'ud until the begining of this
century. So Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Abdil-Wahhaab, is free of
what you have said. I think Sheikh 'Alee at-Tamimi's
refutation of al-Mas'ari should be sufficient to refute this
point, when he says:
"(7) On page 127, Al-Mass'ari cites two works which
supposedly prove that the first Saudi state under the
leadership of Abdul-Aziz b.Muhammad b. Sa'ud had connections
with the British. First of all this was the original reason
for my first post. There I showed that contrary to Zalloum's
thesis the British were supportive of the Gulf shaikhs who
fought against Al-Sa'ud and the (for lack of a more
expressive term) "Wahhabi" da'wa. I am not familiar with
either book or author. I also have my doubts as the history
of the period is pretty well documented. Moreover the
opponents of Ibn Abdul-Wahhab and the Al-Sa'ud left no stone
overturned to find something against them. Surely had such a
connection been there they would have cited it. The first
time one hears of connections between the British and
Al-Sa'ud is during the rise of third state at the beginning
of this century. In response to these allegations refer to
Ibn Sahman's ad-Diya' ash-Shairq, p. 146."
Then you say:
>
I wonder, Sheikh Safar bin Abdir-Rahmaan al-Hawaali, who
wrote his thesis on secularism is CIA funded? Sheikh Salmaan
bin Fahd al-Awdah, is CIA funded? Sheikh Muhammad al-Maqdisi
is CIA funded? Bin Laadin, CIA funded? Khattaab, CIA funded?
In fact, I would challenge you to inform me of a land of
Jihaad, where the foreign Mujahideen happen to be anything
other then the Wahhaabis/Salafis.
Then you say:
>
This has been refuted above, where I showed how you
cut-and-paste Ibn Hajr's words to change the intended
meaning.
Besides, why not also quote the Hadeeth of the Prophet SAW
that the toughest people against the Dajjaal will be Banu
Tameem, who are the "Najdis"??
And then you state:
>
Talk about pot calling the kettle black! Here you are,
claiming to have studied the words of Ibn Hajr, yet are
hiding so much of what he mentions, then deliberately
misquoting Ibn Hajr to alter the intended meaning, topped up
by your ignorance of the History in general, then claiming
that we "choose to ignore" so-called "strong proofs" that we
are not aware of.
Enough said...
May Allah guide us to the truth.
was-Salaamu 'Alaikum
By haq on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 03:05 am: Edit
By haq on Wednesday, July 19, 2000 - 04:00 pm:
i totally disagree with the above statments because the prophet (saw) did mean najd when he pointed towords the east and way should the prophet(saw)mean iraq when so many renowned scholors where lived there one such is sheike abdul qadir (ra)and also why did hazrat Ali (may Allah be pleased with him)move the capital of islamic empire to iraq if he knew that the horn of satan gone grow there. and iknow for fact the hazrat ali (ra) had mach more ilm then any man born today
By Muslim on Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:24 pm: Edit
By Muslim on Wednesday, July 19, 2000 - 07:36 pm:
Ibn Taymiyya on th meaning of "Najd"
Salaams
Hope this contributes to our understanding
IBN TAYMIYYA ON THE MEANING OF "NAJD"
Q. Did Ibn Taymiyya understand Najd in the hadith to mean
Iraq?
A. No. Ibn Taymiyya always differentiates between Najd and
Iraq
although
acknowledging they both lie East of Madina in the language
of the
people
of Madina: "They would call the people of Najd *and* Iraq
'the people
of
the East' (ahl al-mashriq)," "The people of al-Sham are the
people of
the
West (al-gharb) just as Najd *and* Iraq are the beginning of
the
East."1
Elsewhere he states: "The texts affirming the superiority of
the people
of
Sham to those of Najd *and* Iraq and the rest of the people
of the East
are more than can be counted."2 If Najd meant Iraq, it would
be
redundant
to say "Najd and Iraq" and one would have to say, more
correctly,
"Najd,
meaning Iraq."
Ibn Taymiyya also cites the report of Ibn 'Abbas who said:
"The first
Jumu'a that gathered in Islam after the Jumu'a of Madina was
that of
Jawathi, one of the towns of al-Bahrayn. They said: 'O
Messenger of
Allah!
Between us and you are those regions of the disbelievers of
Mudar, and
[we] cannot come to you except in a sacred month. Therefore
give us a
decisive order which we might put into practice and by which
we shall
call
those who are behind us.' Meaning: the people of Najd such
as [the
tribes
of] Tamim, Asad, Ghatafan, and others."3 And again: "The
delegation of
'Abd al-Qays was one of the best delegations ever to come to
the
Prophet -
Allah bless and greet him -... and they said: 'Between us
and you there
are those regions of the disbelievers of Mudar - and they
meant Najd -
and
we cannot reach you except during a sacred month.'"4 And
again: "The
delegation of 'Abd al-Qays came to the Prophet - Allah bless
and greet
him -... and said: 'O Messenger of Allah! Between us and you
there are
those regions of the disbelievers of Mudar' - meaning by
that, the
people
of Najd such as Tamim, Asad, and Ghatafan, because those
were between
al-Bahrayn and al-Madina, while 'Abd al-Qays are from Rabi'a
and not
from
Mudar."5 Bahrayn is far from Iraq; in fact, a line drawn
from Bahrayn
to
Madina would pass slightly higher than Riyad, the capital of
present-day
Najd.
Elsewhere Ibn Taymiyya counts among the tribes of Najd "Banu
Asad,
Ashja',
Fazara, and others of the tribes of Najd."6 These are not
Iraqi but
Najdi
tribes. He also said: "Those that committed apostasy after
his death -
Allah bless and greet him - were only those that entered
Islam with the
sword, such as the companions of Musaylima and the peole of
Najd."7
This
cannot mean Iraq since, at the time the Prophet - Allah
bless and greet
him - left this world, Islam had not yeat reached Iraq.
NOTES
1Ibn Taymiyya, Majmu'a al-Rasa'il (27:42, 28:532, cf.
27:508).
2Op. cit. (4:448).
3Op. cit. (7:552).
4Op. cit. (7:598).
5Op. cit. (7:607).
6Op. cit. (28:443).
7Ibn Taymiyya, Minhaj al-Sunna (1986 ed. 7:478).
By Ibn Javed on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 04:38 pm: Edit
Assalaamu alaikum,
Can anyone explain the above post and why that is contradictory to the explanation of Ibn Hajr etc. Jazaak Allahu khairan
IslamicAwakening.Com Discussion Board: Islaam in general: Topics started in July 2000: On the hadeeth of Najd
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By UmNusayba on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 12:09 am: Edit
By UmNusaybah on Sunday, July 2, 2000 - 03:46 pm:
assalaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu
Insha'Allaah this should clarify some of the misconceptions surrounding the well known hadeeth of Najd.
The Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said, "O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Shaam. O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Yemen." The people said, "O Messenger of Allaah, and our Najd." I think the third time the Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam,said "There (in Najd) will occur earthquakes, trials and tribulations, and from their appears the Horn of Satan."
Reported in al-Bukhaaree [Book of Trials, Chpt. ‘The afflictions will come from the East’ 9/166 no. 214 Eng. Trans]
A hadeeth which has some controversy surrounding it due to obvious sectarian reasons. A hadeeth which has been (deliberately)misunderstood by certain groups of people in order that they may spread their misguidance and deceive ignorant Muslims.
This because upon research and investigation and looking to the words of our early scholars we find that this hadeeth does not refer to the Najd that is famously known in Saudi today, but rather it refers to Iraaq.
About two years ago I read a book entirely devoted to this hadeeth entitled, "an-Najd Qarnu ash-Shaytaan" [I cannot remember the author as I do not have the book on me anymore.] I will quote in general from what I remember from this book, and refrain from mentioning precise quotes except
from those references that I have on me.
Amongst the scholars that are mentioned who referred this hadeeth to Iraaq were: al-Khattaabee, al-Kirmaanee, al-Aynee, an-Nawawee, Ibn Hajr and others. The reasons behind this are numerous and clear:
1) The generality of the hadeeth pertaining to the fitna coming from the east.
Al-Bukhaaree includes this hadeeth in the chapter: "The affliction will appear from the East"
212) From the father of Saalim: The Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, stood up besides the pulpit (and pointed towards the east) and said: "Afflictions are there! Afflictions are there! From where appears the horn of Satan" or he said, "the horn of the Sun"
213) From ibn Umar that he said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alyahi wa sallam, saying while facing the east: "Indeed Afflictions are there, from where appears the Horn of Satan."
214) The hadeeth of Najd under discussion.
Similar ahaadeeth can be found in Saheeh Muslim (volume 4 no’s 6938+). Ahaadeeth that give the same meaning can be found in Saheeh Muslim (volume 1 no’s 83+)
2) That the generality of the early trials and tribulations arose from the east, many of them actually in Iraaq itself.
Ibn Hajr al-Asqalaanee said after quoting the words of al-Khattaabee explaining the meaning of Qarn (horn), "and others have said that the People of the East were disbelievers at that time and the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, informed us that the trials and tribulations would arise from that direction and it was as he said. And the first of the trials that arose, arose from the direction of the east and they were the reason for the splitting of the Muslim ranks, and this is what Satan loves and delights in. Likewise the innovations appeared
from that direction." [Fath al-Baaree 13/58 in commentary to the hadeeth of Najd]
Amongst the trials that arose in Iraaq and the east was the martyrdom of Alee, the martyrdom of the grandson of the Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, the first battle between the Muslims occurred in Iraaq, and many more.
Imaam Nawawee mentions that one of the greatest trials to appear from the East will be the appearance of the Dajjaal. [Sharh Saheeh Muslim 2/29]
From the innovations that appeared in the east and specifically Iraaq, were many of the early deviant sects amongst them the Qadariyyah (as the first hadeeth in Muslim shows), the Jahmiyyah and their offshoots etc…
3. That at the time of the Prophet, sallaahu alayhis wa sallaam, there were 13 places known as Najd [according to ‘Najd Qarn ash-Shaytaan’] depending on where one was. This because Najd linguistically means a raised/elevated land.
Therefore the Arabs referred to lands that were elevated with respect to them as Najd. One of the most commonly referred to areas as Najd at that time was Iraaq.
4. The Najd for those people living in Madeenah in the direction of the East would be Iraaq.
Ibn Hajr said: "al-Khattaabee said: ‘the najd in the direction of the east, and for the one who is in Madeenah then his Najd would be the desert of Iraaq and it’s regions [baadiya al-Iraaq wa Nawaaheehaa] for this is to the east of
the People of Madeenah. The basic meaning of Najd is that which is raised/elevated from the earth in contravention to al-Gawr for that is what is lower than it. Tihaamah [the coastal plain along the south-western and southern shores of the Arabian Peninsula] is entirely al-Gawr and Mecca is in Tihaamah.’"
Ibn Hajr continues, "by this [saying of al-Khattaabee] the weakness of the saying of ad-Daawodee is understood that ‘Najd is in the direction of Iraaq’ [min Naahiya al-Iraaq] for he suggests that Najd is a specific place. This is not the case, rather everything that is elevated with respect to what adjoins it is called Najd and the lower area called Gawr."[Fath al-Baaree 13/58-59]
Al-Haafidh al-Mubaarakfooree endorses these words in his commentary to Sunan at-Tirmidhee (10/314 no.4212)
5. The hadeeth in Saheeh Muslim [4/1505 no.6943]
Saalim bin Abdullaah bin Umar said: O people of Iraaq, how strange is it that you ask about the minor sins but commit the major sins? [The killing of al-Husayn] I heard my father,Abdullaah bin Umar narrating that he heard the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, saying while pointing his hand to the east: "Indeed the turmoil would come from this side, from where appear the horns of Satan and you would strike the necks of one another…"
6. The variations in wording of the hadeeth of Najd that leave no doubt whatsoever as to what it refers to.
The hadeeth of ibn Umar Reported by Abu Nu`aym in al-Hilya (6/133), "O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Madeenah, and bestow your blessings on our Mecca, and bestow your blessings on our Shaam, and bestow your blessings on our Yemen, and bestow your blessings in our measuring (fee saa`inaa wa muddinaa)." A person said, " O Messenger of Allaah and in our Iraaq" and so he turned away from him and said, "there will occur earthquakes, trials and tribulations and there will appear the horn of Satan."
Shu`ayb al-Arna`ut declares it’s isnaad to be saheeh as in his footnotes to ‘Sharh as-Sunnah’ (14/206-207 fn. 2) and he too endorses the words of al-Khattaabee quoted above.
The hadeeth of ibn Umar reported in at-Tabaraanee in ‘al-Awsat’ that the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam prayed Fajr and then faced the people and said, "O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Madeenah, O Allaah bestow your blessings in our measuring, O Allaah bestow your
blessings in our Shaam and our Yemen." A person said, "And Iraaq O Messenger of Allaah?" He said, "from there arises the horn of Satan and the trials and tribulations would come like mounting waves."
Ibn Hajr al-Haythamee says in his ‘Mujma az-Zawaa`id’ (3/305 – chapter ‘collection of du`aas made for (Madeenah)’): ‘its narrators are trustworthy and precise.’
[This hadeeth could possibly considered to be the same as b) above, but I have included it separately due to the slight difference in wording. Allaah knows best.]
The hadeeth of ibn Abbaas reported by at-Tabaraanee in ‘al-Kabeer’ that the Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, supplicated and said, "O Allaah bestow your blessings on our
Shaam and Yemen." A person from amongst the people said, "O Prophet of Allaah and Iraaq?" He said, "indeed there is the Horn of Satan, and the trials and tribulations will come like mounting waves, and indeed harshness/coarseness is in
the east."
Al-Haythamee says: "it’s narrators are trustworthy and precise." (ibid.)
7. The virtues of Bani Tameem
Bani Tameem constitute the majority of the inhabitants of the Najd that is in Saudi Arabia.
The hadeeth of Saheeh Bukhaaree reported by Abu Hurayra (RA): "I have loved the people of the tribe of Bani Tameem, ever since I heard three things the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said about them. I heard him
saying, ‘these people (of the tribe of Bani Tameem) would stand firm against the Dajjaal.’ When the Saddaqat from that tribe came, the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa
sallam, said, "these are the Saddaqat (charitable gifts) of our folk." Aa`ishah had a slave girl from that tribe, and the Prophet , sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said to Aa`ishah, ‘manumit her as she is a descendant of Ismaa`eel, alayhis salaam.’" [Hadeeth no. 2543, 4366 of al-Fath]
Ibn Hajr al-Asqalaanee said, "this hadeeth also contains a clear mention of the excellence and superiority of Bani Tameem." [Fath 5/217]
The hadeeth of Ikrimah from one of the Companions reported in the Musnad of Imaam Ahmad and in it occurs, "do not say of Bani Tameem anything but good, for indeed they are the severest of people in attacking the Dajjaal."
Al-Haythamee says: "its narrators are those ofthe Saheeh." [Mujma 10/48 chpt: What is reported concerning Bani Tameem]
It is not strange that Bani Tameem would be the most severe against the Dajjaal, because the tools required to combat him are none but a correct and firm belief and proper beneficial knowledge. Alhumdolillaah many of the scholars of
Saudi are from the most noble and skilled scholars on the face of this earth today, firmly upon the way of our noble Messenger, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam.
This is what Allaah has allowed me to very quickly put together. And our Lord Most High Knows best.
By Clear salafi contradictions on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 02:49 am: Edit
By Clear salafi contradictions on Sunday, July 9, 2000 -
01:12 am:
Assalamu alaykum
It is interesting that the sister quotes from Imam Nawawi and Ibn Hajar Asqalani (may Allah have mercy on them both) to support the argument of the Ahl-ul-Nadj that the Hadith refers to Iraq.
I am puzzled because both Imam Nawawi and Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani were of the "deviant"Ashari' aqeeda and thus are considered innovators and beyond the pale by most salafis- why quote from them then -just because its suits your argument?
The hadith clearly states Najd - not Iraq -why are salafis now resorting to ta'wil (which they condemn the Ashari's for) to deny its true meaning!!
What is you opinion of the hadith where the Prophet(saw) says that the armies of the Dajjal will come from a particular area and he(saw) points to the location where Medina University (established 1974) is currently situated!!
It be interested in your response to these points.
By Decisive proof on the location of Najd on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 02:48 am: Edit
By Decisive proof on the location of Najd on Sunday, July 9, 2000 - 01:28 am:
The question was asked:
b.. Under what circumstances did the Prophet Muhammad
(PBUH) first offer
the qunut prayer?
The answer was given (in the same post):
"The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) first made the qunut when 70
Muslim da'ees,
who had been sent to teach the tribes of Ra'l, Dhakwan and
Usiyyah, were
treacherously murdered by them.
"These clans had wilfully misled the Prophet into sending 70
of the most
able Muslim teachers into a death trap, by claiming they had
embraced
Islam. The Prophet was extremely saddened by this calamity
and invoked
Allah's curse and chastisement on these tribes.
"The qunut al-nazilah started thus off as an imprecatory
prayer, calling
Divine punishment on the tyrants who butchered innocent
people and the
prayer was offered after rising from the ruku (bowing)
position in the
compulsory daily salah."
End of excerpt.
The above is all true, but it should be noted that the clans
in question
were all from Najd, and that the massacre of the Sahaba took
place in
Najd.
`Amir ibn Malik came to the Prophet (SAWS) in the 4th year
of the Hijra,
neither accepting nor rejecting Islam. Instead he said: "O
Muhammad! If
you send some of your Companions to the people of Najd to
call them to
your affair, I have hope that they shall respond favorably
to you." The
Prophet (SAWS) replied: "Truly I fear for them [harm] from
the people of
Najd" (inni aksha `alayhim ahla Najd).
This establishes without DOUBT that the Prophet(saw)
consider Najd to be the Najd of Saudi - The Sahaba's never
fought in Iraq during his lifetime(saw)
`Amir said: "I proclaim that they
are under my protection." The Prophet (SAWS) then sent
seventy men from
the elite of the Muslims. They travelled until they alighted
at the Well
of Ma`una, at which time they sent Haram ibn Malhan with the
letter of the
Messenger of Allah (SAWS) to `Amir ibn al-Tufayl. The latter
did not look
at the letter but instead killed Haram ibn Malhan. Then he
called upon the
Banu `Amir for assistance to kill the rest of the Muslim
group, but they
declined to challenge `Amir ibn Malik's protectorate. So
`Amir ibn
al-Tufayl called upon the tribes of Sulaym: `Usayya, Ra`l,
Dhakwan, and
they responded to him. They formed an expedition and
surrounded the group
with their mounts. The Muslims were killed to the last man
but for `Amr
ibn Umayya al-Dumari who returned to Madina. The Prophet
(SAWS) was deeply
affected by their death and remained supplicating (yaqnutu)
for one month
during the dawn prayer against the Sulaym tribes: Ra`l,
Dakwan, Banu
Lahyan, and `Usayya.
The story is told in Fiqh al-Sira (p. 254-255).
By Zubayr on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 02:52 am: Edit
By Zubayr on Monday, July 10, 2000 - 01:09 am:
Bismillah
Reply to 'Clear Salafi Contradiction'
As salaamu alaykum
>I am puzzled because both Imam Nawawi and Ibn >Hajar Al-Asqalani were of the "deviant"Ashari' >aqeeda and thus are considered innovators and >beyond the pale by most salafis- why quote from >them then -just because its suits your argument?
I love to read this type of statement over and over again. Perhaps the statement of Shaykh ibn Uthaymeen regarding these two Shaykhs (May Allah have mercy upon them) is best in this case:
"The two shaikhs and preservers of the religion have their place of prominence, honesty and great benefit for the Muslim nation. Even if they made some mistake in reinterpreting some of the texts mentionting the attributes [of Allah], such mistakes are covered and immersed by what they had of virtue and great benefit. We suspect that what they stated was only the result of their own personal ijtihaad and a permissible form of interpretation - at least in their view. I hope from Allah that such are forgiven mistakes; and I hope that the good and benefit that came from them will be efforts that are rewarded and appreciated by Allah; and I hope that Allah's words will apply to them, 'Verily, the good deeds remove the evil deeds' [Hood 114]. We are of the opinion that they are both from Ahlul Sunnah
wal-Jam'aah and this is evidenced by their service to the sunnah of the Messenger (SAAS), their eagerness to purify it from the wrong that had been attributed to it and their implementation of its rulings. They differed from the leaders of Ahlul-Sunnah with respect to some verses and hadeeth concerning attributes [of Allah] based on a mistaken ijtihaad and we hope that Allah will deal with them with forgiveness and pardon." [Kitaab ul-Ilm]
So I am sure that the above sure the true position regarding our beloved Imaams (May Allah have mercy upon them) and that taking knowledge from them, particularly in hadeeth, in which they are muhadditheen, is clearly allowed.
>The hadith clearly states Najd - not Iraq -why >are salafis now resorting to ta'wil (which they >condemn the Ashari's for) to deny its true >meaing!!
Where is the tawil?? Do you read our sister, UmNusayba's initial post? Let me quote for you...
"3. That at the time of the Prophet, sallaahu alayhis wa sallaam, there were 13 places known as Najd [according to ‘Najd Qarnu ash-Shaytaan’] depending on where one was. This because Najd linguistically means a raised/elevated land.
Therefore the Arabs referred to lands that were elevated with respect to them as Najd. One of the most commonly referred to areas as Najd at that time was Iraaq."
So we have established that Iraaq was amongst those that were given the name Najd...Next...
4. The Najd for those people living in Madeenah in the direction of the East would be Iraaq.
"Ibn Hajr said: "al-Khattaabee said: ‘the najd in the direction of the east, and for the one who is in Madeenah then his Najd would be the desert of Iraaq and it’s regions [baadiya al-Iraaq wa Nawaaheehaa] for this is to the east of the People of Madeenah."
So let me weigh this up...the muhadditheen (Imaams of hadeeth of our Islam) say Najd = Iraaq and you say Najd = not Iraaq and of course, what a suprise you give no evidence...Need I say whom we should stick to??!
>What is you opinion of the hadith where the >Prophet(saw) says that the armies of the Dajjal >will come from a particular area and he(saw) >points to the location where Medina University >(established 1974) is currently situated!!
Now this one really got me!! I am yet to find a hadeeth (authentic or inauthentic) where the Prophet (SAAS) said that the army of the Dajjal would come from Madinah. All I could find was,
Anas ibn Malik : Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) said: The Dajjal would be followed by seventy thousand Jews of Isfahan wearing Persian shawls.
Muslim 7034
Now Isfahan, and please correct if I am wrong, is in Iran.
In fact all I could find about the Dajjal and Madinah was ahadeeth of how the Dajjal will be unable to enter it [Bukhari 9/247, 3/103, 9/240 and more].
By Mahi on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 02:59 am: Edit
By Mahi on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 02:33 am:
Sister Um Nusayba - re point 4:
I am well aware of Ibn Hajar's words, and his conclusion is that the word Najd does not refer to a specific place but to the Eastern direction
from Madina, and that it lexically means every elevated place, i.e. mountains. Ibn Hajar's conclusion is not that it means Iraq.
Anyway, I am surprized that you cling with such insistence to the words of a scholar when we have firsthand evidence from`Umar and Ibn `Abbas
(RAA) that the Miqat (place of entering Ihram) for the people of Najd is Qarn al-Manazil, while the Miqat of the people of Iraq is Dhatu `Irqin. If Iraq and Najd are one and the same place, how come their Miqats are two different places?
And aside from `Umar and Ibn `Abbas,(may Allah be pleased with them both) did you not read the words of the Prophet (SAWS) himself when he made du`a al-qunut against the Sulaym clans of
Najd: Ra‘l, Dakwan, Banu Lahyan, and ‘Usayya tribes? Were these tribes in Iraq?
Ibn Hajar said "And the first of the trials that
arose, arose from the direction of the east ...."
The first great fitna that came from the East was Musaylima the Liar from the Banu Hanifa tribes in Yamama. Was this in Iraq? Of course the most recent fitna which came from Najd was when the wretched Saud clan and Abdul Wahab colluded
with the British and rebelled against the legitamate Caliph of the day ( The Wahabbis colluding with kuffar against muslims ?!? sounds familiar..? Gulf War 1991, Southern Sudan, OPEC, etc, etc)
And of course the CIA-funded secular "Saudi Salafi" dawa is weakening and causing great fitna amongst the Muslims all over the world in our own time
As Ibn Hajar said about the Nejdis "... and they were the reason for the splitting of the
Muslim ranks, and this is what Satan loves and delights in".
As well as the two posts to your original message these are other strong proofs that you evidently are not aware of or choose to ignore
wasalaam
Your brother
By Abuz-Zubair al-'Azzami (Admin) on Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:06 pm: Edit
By Abuz-Zubair al-'Azzami (Admin) on Wednesday, July 19,
2000 - 02:33 am:
as-Salaamu 'Alaikum brother Mahi.
You said:
>
I don't think you are well aware of what Ibn Hajr has said
in Fath, for if you were, then I wonder how, the explicit
mentioning of Iraaq, can escape your eyes!
Why not mention the Hadeeth which Ibn hajr quotes from
Saheeh Muslim, narrated by Saalim Ibn Abdillah Ibn 'Umar -
may Allah be pleased with them both - who said: "O people of
'Iraaq! You enquire about minor sins, while commit major
sins! I heard my father, 'Abdullah Ibn 'Umar say, "I heard
the Messenger of Allah SAW say: Indeed the Fitnah will come
from right here! and he pointed with his hand towards the
east, where the horn of Satan will arise" (Fath 13/59)
Why did Ibn Hajr pick a Hadeeth in reference to Iraaq and
place it under the topic of the Hadeeth of Najd, if Najd and
Iraaq are two seperate places?
As for your statement:
>
Here you are mixing the practicalities of Hajj, with the
Hadeeth regarding fitan, where Ibn Hajr has explicitly
quoted a narration and statements of the Salaf explicitly
saying that "the direction of east" is understood to be in
the direction of Iraaq. So when the intent of "Najd" is
already explained then why refer to a totally different
chapter, and pick out a Hadeeth totally irrelevant to the
topic, in order to cover up what has already been
established by Ibn Hajr?
Seondly, even when Ibn Hajr opined that "Najd" is any
elevated land, then what gave you the right to restrict Najd
to the Arabian peninsula?
Then you totally misquote Ibn Hajr, knowing fully well the
deception you are playing... and you say:
>
Why not end the quote of Ibn Hajr? Why shy away from it? Let
me complete the quote of Ibn Hajr for you...
"The first of the Fitan was from the direction of the east,
which was due to split amongst the Muslims, and that is from
what Shaitaan loves and becomes happy with"
As you can clearly see, Ibn Hajr is talking about the
"fitnah" and NOT the blessed Jihaad that took place between
Abu Bakr and Musaylimah the liar - as you falsely claimed,
which is further affirmed by Ibn Hajr when he says, "which
was due to split amongst the Muslims". Do you regard the
fighting between the Muslims and the apostate army of
Musaylimah to be a split amongst the Muslims?
I really hope not, because the fight between Musaylimah and
Abu Bakr ra is regarded to be Jihaad by the Ijmaa, and not
fitnah. Rather the first fitnah that Ibn Hajr is talking
about is the Fitnah of the Khawaarij, who broke away from
'Alee ra and refused to follow him to Koofah, and stopped at
a place called Huroorah, close to Koofah in 'Iraaq. They
were were the first innovators in the Islaamic history, and
the first sect amongst the Muslims.
This is further confirmed by Ibn Hajr when he goes on to
say, "Similarly, Bid'a appeared from that area".
It is a fact that the Khawaarij came from 'Iraaq, the Shi'ah
came from 'Iraaq, the Murji`ah came from 'Iraaq, the
Mu'tazilah, Qadariyah and in our time, Ba'athiyah, they all
came from 'Iraaq.
I say that you intentionally misquoted Ibn Hajr, because
there wasn't a paragraph or two between the statement, "And
the first of the trials that
arose, arose from the direction of the east ...." and the
continuation of that statement which you yourself quoted
near the end of your post where he said, "... and they were
the reason for the splitting of the Muslim ranks, and this
is what Satan loves and delights in". This shows that you
were fully aware of the entire statement, but you chose to
cut-and-paste to change the intended meaning, may Allah
forgive us all.
Then you say:
>
I think you need to revise your history, as the British
never got involved with Aal-Sa'ud until the begining of this
century. So Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Abdil-Wahhaab, is free of
what you have said. I think Sheikh 'Alee at-Tamimi's
refutation of al-Mas'ari should be sufficient to refute this
point, when he says:
"(7) On page 127, Al-Mass'ari cites two works which
supposedly prove that the first Saudi state under the
leadership of Abdul-Aziz b.Muhammad b. Sa'ud had connections
with the British. First of all this was the original reason
for my first post. There I showed that contrary to Zalloum's
thesis the British were supportive of the Gulf shaikhs who
fought against Al-Sa'ud and the (for lack of a more
expressive term) "Wahhabi" da'wa. I am not familiar with
either book or author. I also have my doubts as the history
of the period is pretty well documented. Moreover the
opponents of Ibn Abdul-Wahhab and the Al-Sa'ud left no stone
overturned to find something against them. Surely had such a
connection been there they would have cited it. The first
time one hears of connections between the British and
Al-Sa'ud is during the rise of third state at the beginning
of this century. In response to these allegations refer to
Ibn Sahman's ad-Diya' ash-Shairq, p. 146."
Then you say:
>
I wonder, Sheikh Safar bin Abdir-Rahmaan al-Hawaali, who
wrote his thesis on secularism is CIA funded? Sheikh Salmaan
bin Fahd al-Awdah, is CIA funded? Sheikh Muhammad al-Maqdisi
is CIA funded? Bin Laadin, CIA funded? Khattaab, CIA funded?
In fact, I would challenge you to inform me of a land of
Jihaad, where the foreign Mujahideen happen to be anything
other then the Wahhaabis/Salafis.
Then you say:
>
This has been refuted above, where I showed how you
cut-and-paste Ibn Hajr's words to change the intended
meaning.
Besides, why not also quote the Hadeeth of the Prophet SAW
that the toughest people against the Dajjaal will be Banu
Tameem, who are the "Najdis"??
And then you state:
>
Talk about pot calling the kettle black! Here you are,
claiming to have studied the words of Ibn Hajr, yet are
hiding so much of what he mentions, then deliberately
misquoting Ibn Hajr to alter the intended meaning, topped up
by your ignorance of the History in general, then claiming
that we "choose to ignore" so-called "strong proofs" that we
are not aware of.
Enough said...
May Allah guide us to the truth.
was-Salaamu 'Alaikum
By haq on Friday, September 08, 2000 - 03:05 am: Edit
By haq on Wednesday, July 19, 2000 - 04:00 pm:
i totally disagree with the above statments because the prophet (saw) did mean najd when he pointed towords the east and way should the prophet(saw)mean iraq when so many renowned scholors where lived there one such is sheike abdul qadir (ra)and also why did hazrat Ali (may Allah be pleased with him)move the capital of islamic empire to iraq if he knew that the horn of satan gone grow there. and iknow for fact the hazrat ali (ra) had mach more ilm then any man born today
By Muslim on Thursday, September 07, 2000 - 10:24 pm: Edit
By Muslim on Wednesday, July 19, 2000 - 07:36 pm:
Ibn Taymiyya on th meaning of "Najd"
Salaams
Hope this contributes to our understanding
IBN TAYMIYYA ON THE MEANING OF "NAJD"
Q. Did Ibn Taymiyya understand Najd in the hadith to mean
Iraq?
A. No. Ibn Taymiyya always differentiates between Najd and
Iraq
although
acknowledging they both lie East of Madina in the language
of the
people
of Madina: "They would call the people of Najd *and* Iraq
'the people
of
the East' (ahl al-mashriq)," "The people of al-Sham are the
people of
the
West (al-gharb) just as Najd *and* Iraq are the beginning of
the
East."1
Elsewhere he states: "The texts affirming the superiority of
the people
of
Sham to those of Najd *and* Iraq and the rest of the people
of the East
are more than can be counted."2 If Najd meant Iraq, it would
be
redundant
to say "Najd and Iraq" and one would have to say, more
correctly,
"Najd,
meaning Iraq."
Ibn Taymiyya also cites the report of Ibn 'Abbas who said:
"The first
Jumu'a that gathered in Islam after the Jumu'a of Madina was
that of
Jawathi, one of the towns of al-Bahrayn. They said: 'O
Messenger of
Allah!
Between us and you are those regions of the disbelievers of
Mudar, and
[we] cannot come to you except in a sacred month. Therefore
give us a
decisive order which we might put into practice and by which
we shall
call
those who are behind us.' Meaning: the people of Najd such
as [the
tribes
of] Tamim, Asad, Ghatafan, and others."3 And again: "The
delegation of
'Abd al-Qays was one of the best delegations ever to come to
the
Prophet -
Allah bless and greet him -... and they said: 'Between us
and you there
are those regions of the disbelievers of Mudar - and they
meant Najd -
and
we cannot reach you except during a sacred month.'"4 And
again: "The
delegation of 'Abd al-Qays came to the Prophet - Allah bless
and greet
him -... and said: 'O Messenger of Allah! Between us and you
there are
those regions of the disbelievers of Mudar' - meaning by
that, the
people
of Najd such as Tamim, Asad, and Ghatafan, because those
were between
al-Bahrayn and al-Madina, while 'Abd al-Qays are from Rabi'a
and not
from
Mudar."5 Bahrayn is far from Iraq; in fact, a line drawn
from Bahrayn
to
Madina would pass slightly higher than Riyad, the capital of
present-day
Najd.
Elsewhere Ibn Taymiyya counts among the tribes of Najd "Banu
Asad,
Ashja',
Fazara, and others of the tribes of Najd."6 These are not
Iraqi but
Najdi
tribes. He also said: "Those that committed apostasy after
his death -
Allah bless and greet him - were only those that entered
Islam with the
sword, such as the companions of Musaylima and the peole of
Najd."7
This
cannot mean Iraq since, at the time the Prophet - Allah
bless and greet
him - left this world, Islam had not yeat reached Iraq.
NOTES
1Ibn Taymiyya, Majmu'a al-Rasa'il (27:42, 28:532, cf.
27:508).
2Op. cit. (4:448).
3Op. cit. (7:552).
4Op. cit. (7:598).
5Op. cit. (7:607).
6Op. cit. (28:443).
7Ibn Taymiyya, Minhaj al-Sunna (1986 ed. 7:478).
By Ibn Javed on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 04:38 pm: Edit
Assalaamu alaikum,
Can anyone explain the above post and why that is contradictory to the explanation of Ibn Hajr etc. Jazaak Allahu khairan