The Kufr Of The Saudi Arabian Government

[Yousef al Khattab]

THE KUFR OF THE SAUDI ARABIAN GOVERNMENT by REVOLUTIONMUSLIM.COM (http://www.mypodcast.com/fsaudio/revolutionmuslim_20080222_1532-181435.mp3)

Right Click On The Link & Save As.
Then Post it All Over The Web Inshallah.

[han617]

The speaker sounds like Vin Diesel. I mean that in a good way.

[tayfah_mansurah]

always about the saudis:p

THE KUFR OF THE SAUDI ARABIAN GOVERNMENT by REVOLUTIONMUSLIM.COM (http://www.mypodcast.com/fsaudio/revolutionmuslim_20080222_1532-181435.mp3)

Right Click On The Link & Save As.
Then Post it All Over The Web Inshallah.

[Yousef al Khattab]

always about the saudis:p

Authubillah! Please do take the time to listen to the entire audio and you will see why the SAUDIA GOVERNMENT is one of the Major problems of this Ummah. In fact with Allah as my witness when I recorded this audio it was supposed to have been read in front of the Saudi consulate,for the sake of Allah and to add 3del so that people won't just think we are attacking the Jews & 'Israel'.
Please take the time to relax think and reply and understand that there is a Muslim brother behind this computer with rights and feelings like anyone else.

Jazak Allah Khair,
Akhouk Yousef

[Abu Maysara]

JazakAllahu kheiyr dear brother Yousef.
indeed this Ummah is being targeted from within and those munafiqeen needs to be dealth with as they are worse than the jews and christians in their "talbees iblees" in the form of a un "Islamic" rule with their supporters amongst palace scholars and their murji'e supporters cheering at them from the sidelines and attacking anyone who understand what needs to be done for this Ummah to wake up and accuse them to be khawaarij/extremists or like some lost individuals here calls them "Jihaadi kids"..may Allah guide them or give them what they deserve sooner rather than later

[al-Athari]

Why is everybody tryina give lectures and write articles? What ever happend to learning first? I thought it was a sequence, but nowadays the latter comes first. :confused:

[Salsabil]

Why is everybody tryina give lectures and write articles? What ever happend to learning first? I thought it was a sequence, but nowadays the latter comes first. :confused:

loooooooooooooooooooool

[Abuz Zubair]

Why is everybody tryina give lectures and write articles? What ever happend to learning first? I thought it was a sequence, but nowadays the latter comes first. :confused:
yes, but by then, most of the damage has already been done and people have already been mislead... not to mention that the guy's hereafter is also destroyed along the way.

[al-Athari]

yes, but by then, most of the damage has already been done and people have already been mislead... not to mention that the guy's hereafter is also destroyed along the way.

lol yea I guess so, unless if people are racing each other to mislead others

[Yousef al Khattab]

Why is everybody tryina give lectures and write articles? What ever happend to learning first? I thought it was a sequence, but nowadays the latter comes first. :confused:

So your point is that before one commands the good and forbids the evil they must have turbiyah? Is this methodology from the athar? Well you will be pleased to know that the brother that wrote this essay has a education I will tell you a little about him inshallah. He was a High School dropout and a convicted felon. Alhumdulilah while he was incarcerated he earned his GED and upon release from prison got married and earned a scholarship to University based on a paper he wrote in jail. This dear brother earned his Bachelors in Science and is now working on his Masters degree in one of the best schools in the country Columbia University while working 35 hours a week & being active in the da3owa. The brother is a political scientist by name and diploma.
On another note I personally agree with the Imam Shawtabi approach used in Mogreb in the Dar alQuran institutions there. That approach is that you MUST be hafith the entire Qur'an (normally for small children a full day process for 6 years) and only then can you start to learn Fiq usool based on the Maliki madhab for 6 more years and then you are qualified to be a Imam in a Masjid or attend al Azhar or Oum al Quraa (on the real level not a crash course for self proclaimed Salafis). To sum up yes 3lm is key and 99.9% of those that claim Athari or Salafia don't have it. Reading articles from Troid & Spubs is not 3lm that is data w/o comparative analysis. Let us look at a example the self proclaimed Salafis speak how great fatawa from Sh. Fawzan etc are have you ever seen Sh. Fawzan bring together a fatwa and understanding of a question like this (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546332)?
In closing please do feel free to debate the content of that speech, and rather than walk around being a 90 kilo Qualude (http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Qualude)
do SOMETHING constructive for the Ummah besides just having the external elements of Islam.

[AbuUsama]

Why is everybody tryina give lectures and write articles? What ever happend to learning first? I thought it was a sequence, but nowadays the latter comes first. :confused:

LoL you mean only your madhkaliya scholars can write articles and give lectures
:confused:

[al-Athari]

So your point is that before one commands the good and forbids the evil they must have turbiyah? Is this methodology from the athar? Well you will be pleased to know that the brother that wrote this essay has a education I will tell you a little about him inshallah. He was a High School dropout and a convicted felon. Alhumdulilah while he was incarcerated he earned his GED and upon release from prison got married and earned a scholarship to University based on a paper he wrote in jail. This dear brother earned his Bachelors in Science and is now working on his Masters degree in one of the best schools in the country Columbia University while working 35 hours a week & being active in the da3owa. The brother is a political scientist by name and diploma.
On another note I personally agree with the Imam Shawtabi approach used in Mogreb in the Dar alQuran institutions there. That approach is that you MUST be hafith the entire Qur'an (normally for small children a full day process for 6 years) and only then can you start to learn Fiq usool based on the Maliki madhab for 6 more years and then you are qualified to be a Imam in a Masjid or attend al Azhar or Oum al Quraa (on the real level not a crash course for self proclaimed Salafis). To sum up yes 3lm is key and 99.9% of those that claim Athari or Salafia don't have it. Reading articles from Troid & Spubs is not 3lm that is data w/o comparative analysis. Let us look at a example the self proclaimed Salafis speak how great fatawa from Sh. Fawzan etc are have you ever seen Sh. Fawzan bring together a fatwa and understanding of a question like this (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546332)?
In closing please do feel free to debate the content of that speech, and rather than walk around being a 90 kilo Qualude (http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Qualude)
do SOMETHING constructive for the Ummah besides just having the external elements of Islam.

Jazakallahu khayrun for your warm reply akhee. I didn't think you'd get all heated. But anyways i'm not a Madkhali akhee nor do I like spubs or Troids, the brother is free to talk about politics but when he says 'kufr of the Saudi state' he is obviously talking about deen. Also, I listened to some of the clip and everything he says about their situation in the Kingdom he refers back to the deen of Allah ta'ala.

'So ask the people of the Reminder if you do not know'.

[al-Anbiya ayah 7]

With all due respect everyone has their own profession and I think questions pertaining to kufr' should be left to the people of knowledge.

[Yousef al Khattab]

Jazakallahu khayrun for your warm reply akhee. I didn't think you'd get all heated. But anyways i'm not a Madkhali akhee nor do I like spubs or Troids, the brother is free to talk about politics but when he says 'kufr of the Saudi state' he is obviously talking about deen. Also, I listened to some of the clip and everything he says about their situation in the Kingdom he refers back to the deen of Allah ta'ala.

'So ask the people of the Reminder if you do not know'.

[al-Anbiya ayah 7]

With all due respect everyone has their own profession and I think questions pertaining to kufr' should be left to the people of knowledge.


Jazak Allah Khair ya akhi for your reply. The kufr of the sa3udi regime has been established by the tafsir on Surat al Maida 44 45 and 47 by Imam Tabari, beside the people of knowledge including Sh Faris al Zahrani,Abu Qatada,Abu Muhammad al Maqdesi,Sh Abu Baseer are ALL of the understanding that all the Hukam are Kuffar. Besides akhi Hakamia is a matter of fitrah. All scholars would agree that a Murji is worst than a Kharji. Takfir is not something we can just throw at people like has been done to SAS here because ignorance or other reasons one can not help maybe a factor, as per the Hukam ya akhi if you think sincere advice will remove them well I think you have a better chance of finding a African American on the Jetsons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jetsons) before that happens.
Allah Hayeek,
Akhok Yousef

P.S. Please forgive my referring to u as Troid or Spubs, I suffer from Post Troid Hizbia Psychosis (http://jamesure.homestead.com/manic_depression_demo.JPG)

[al-Athari]

Jazak Allah Khair ya akhi for your reply. The kufr of the sa3udi regime has been established by the tafsir on Surat al Maida 44 45 and 47 by Imam Tabari, beside the people of knowledge including Sh Faris al Zahrani,Abu Qatada,Abu Muhammad al Maqdesi,Sh Abu Baseer are ALL of the understanding that all the Hukam are Kuffar. Besides akhi Hakamia is a matter of fitrah. All scholars would agree that a Murji is worst than a Kharji. Takfir is not something we can just throw at people like has been done to SAS here because ignorance or other reasons one can not help maybe a factor, as per the Hukam ya akhi if you think sincere advice will remove them well I think you have a better chance of finding a African American on the Jetsons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jetsons) before that happens.
Allah Hayeek,
Akhok Yousef

P.S. Please forgive my referring to u as Troid or Spubs, I suffer from Post Troid Hizbia Psychosis (http://jamesure.homestead.com/manic_depression_demo.JPG)

LOL, no problemo akhee. I am aware of the mas'ala of kufr bi ghayri bima anzalah and the whole athar of Ibn Abbas's kufr doona kufr being weak. And its Kufr Akbar taking one out of the folds of Islam, and when I ment people of knowledge I had Shayhk Abu Basir in mind :] and defintely not the likes of Ubaykaan. I still although respect the people of knowledge and let them disagree amongst themselves (as to regards to the Saudi Ulema).

[al-Athari]

LoL you mean only your madhkaliya scholars can write articles and give lectures
:confused:

haha may Allah forgive you for speaking without knowledge ameen.

[Anikaa]

I suffer from Post Troid Hizbia Psychosis (http://jamesure.homestead.com/manic_depression_demo.JPG)

May Allaah hasten your cure

[AbuUsama]

haha may Allah forgive you for speaking without knowledge ameen.

Ameen. but one question akhi its well known that Saudi Government is a kufr government so do you not agree with this akhi ?

[Um Abdullah M.]

its an obsession.
these people probably even dream of the saudi royal family.
wouldn't be surprised if they had shirts that have "saudiyah is kafir" written on it.

get a life, and do something for deen instead of just talk about kufr of so and so.

May Allah guide you.

[Abu Maysara]

its an obsession.
these people probably even dream of the saudi royal family.
wouldn't be surprised if they had shirts that have "saudiyah is kafir" written on it.

get a life, and do something for deen instead of just talk about kufr of so and so.

May Allah guide you.

and some people do not miss a chance defending their dear royal family,
defending them and their false/corrupt scholars as they are worthy of being defended!

may Allah swt give them what they deserve sooner rather than later!
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/wp-content/photos/0627_09.jpg

http://publiuspundit.com/ALeqM5i2NY7irUtH_QvTeYnAqZBMUOahSw.jpg

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnections/mideast/images/thumb/thumb_resource_5_lg.jpg

http://www.finfacts.ie/img/PopeAbdullah.JPG

[Just Me]

Usually it's due to nationalistic pride that they hold, and dishonesty towards the Deen of Allah that they perceive the living idols as believers.

[Yousef al Khattab]

its an obsession.
these people probably even dream of the saudi royal family.
wouldn't be surprised if they had shirts that have "saudiyah is kafir" written on it.

get a life, and do something for deen instead of just talk about kufr of so and so.

May Allah guide you.

I'm sorry I thought the title of this section was Politics,Jihad & Current Events. Did you care to comment on the speech or did you just want to back bite?
May Allah Slaughter Those That support The Hukam & Their Fatawa Writers

[hifdh]

Yousef, bro, there will come a time when you will grow out of this phase b'ithnillah. Whilst I appreciate your zeal and enthusiasm, I feel saddened at the apparent fact of shaytaan deceiving you in wasting it on matters such as these.

A detailed look through Islamic history will show you that on many, many occasions the Islamic State became divided, autonomous rule popped up here and there sporting munafiq, opressive rulers. The current situation for the ummah is bad, but so is the number of muslims actually practising their deen, learning tawhid and trying to correctly follow the Sunnah.

Did you know in Mecca and Medina it is very easy to get prostitutes? This isn't the government supplying them or a lack on their part to curb this, it's the average Saudi-Joe who seeks to fulfil his desires going about it in a sneaky way. Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, UAE, Saudi, Pak, Lebnaan, list goes on, in all of these places the number of corrupted non-practising Muslims outweighs the number of practising.

Yes there is a problem in the rulers, but there is also one amongst the general people within the Ummah... Allah ta'ala does not change the situation of people until they change what is in themselves (become pious/practising).

[Yousef al Khattab]

Yousef, bro, there will come a time when you will grow out of this phase b'ithnillah. Whilst I appreciate your zeal and enthusiasm, I feel saddened at the apparent fact of shaytaan deceiving you in wasting it on matters such as these.

A detailed look through Islamic history will show you that on many, many occasions the Islamic State became divided, autonomous rule popped up here and there sporting munafiq, opressive rulers. The current situation for the ummah is bad, but so is the number of muslims actually practising their deen, learning tawhid and trying to correctly follow the Sunnah.

Did you know in Mecca and Medina it is very easy to get prostitutes? This isn't the government supplying them or a lack on their part to curb this, it's the average Saudi-Joe who seeks to fulfil his desires going about it in a sneaky way. Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, UAE, Saudi, Pak, Lebnaan, list goes on, in all of these places the number of corrupted non-practising Muslims outweighs the number of practising.

Yes there is a problem in the rulers, but there is also one amongst the general people within the Ummah... Allah ta'ala does not change the situation of people until they change what is in themselves (become pious/practising).

I'm sorry this is the same "phase" or fitrah I have been upon since I became a Muslim and left the Rabbis. Until 1924 all the rulers were Muslim maybe not always good muslims but the law of the land was Sharia and that is all we are asking for. These tyrant pigs have instituted and legislated that which Allah has not. Alhumdulilah I have lived close to 9 years in Falestine and 1 year in Moghreb, I know the mentality and the people pretty well alhumdulilah. Most people would keep the deen if they didn't have the state sponsored Prince Talib LBC Hotties bouncing around and Cyber Boutques that young shabab can chat with other French girls. Just as the masses are FORCED to live under these Kuffar puppets, so to can Sharia be forced on the puppets. We have no room for (edited) akhi either your with the Shari3a or your with the Tawghoot. Spit in every 'Scholar's' face that assisted these tyrants. There is no difference between Spubs and Ibn Uthaymene except the latter writes better.The way we change ourselves is by getting rid of the defeatist mentality that the 4 infallible(Bin Baz,Ibn-Utheymene,a-lAlbani,Muqbil) Imams have placed in the minds of the self proclaimed Salafis. Can you blame Abu Layth for leaving "Salafia" after seeing all this hypocrisy. Just in case I was not clear I Hate Ibn Uthaymene,Bin Baz and any other HUMAN BEING that supports or gives bayah to the Hukam. You folks are very extreme in your support of the kuffar.

Allah Ma3k

[hifdh]

Was the law of the land sharia up until 1924? You need to check Islamic historical sources bro, you have your dates and facts muddled up. Many parts of the ummah had abandoned Sharia's exclusivity. Ottomons had already adopted many parts of France's constitution. You have majorly contradicted yourself by quoting 1924 as the date Sharia/Khilafah existed up till, this is a myth propagated by Hizb ut-Tahrir's weak historical research. It was in that date the Uthmaani's were sent out of Turkey, but the Khilafah was pieced and carved with non-Sharia rule flooding in much prior to 1924. Why else do you think Muhammad Ibn Abdal Wahhab (ra) revolted to establish Sharia in what is now Saudi Arabia?

Your hatred is irrational. You should consider the fact that under these governments, shuyukh like bin baz, uthaymeen, etc have done as much good as possible. If they had stood up against the government and then got tossed in to prison for it, what would be the state of the Muslims now? Far worse.

The situation of the ummah in unprecedented in these current times... is slandering dead scholars and hating them really going to bring about the change of Sharia and Khilafah?

PLEASE bro take a moment to look in to the good done by these 4 great scholars, of whom nobody considers infallible except those who didn't actually read their works! Infallibility for men is not a belief amongst Sunni's.

[Abu Maysara]

So how will this Ummah get back to the position that it should possess, in other words; the leader of mankind, sending out u'lama to spread At tawheed to disbelievers and invite them to Islam and as well as mujahideen to defend the Ummah from the enemies and to expand the Ummah as well bi idhnillah.
How will we get back the honor and dignity after being humuliiated for so long ?

The Messenger of Allāh (peace be upon him) spoke the truth when he said: "If you engage in 'Īna (a form of usury), and hold onto the tails of cattle, and become pleased with agriculture, and leave Jihād in the Path of Allāh, then Allāh will put a humiliation over you that He will not remove until you return to your Dīn.""

for all of those that make excuses s they may stay behind, please make way for those who choose to give victory to the Deen and for those who choose to support them, in words and other means. if you disagree, at least let your tongue be busy with learning the Deen and not by speaking ill of al mujahideen as your palace scholars do, may Allah swt give victory to those who give victory to His Deen

[hifdh]

If you took a moment to read what the scholars have said about this, instead of insisting they laze around in palaces all day, you may have an idea. If you lay off the hot air anger-flex that you talk about, despite you being here talking about it contradicting your very own words, you may realise that the problem our ummah is in is far more complex than what can be resolved in some simple way.

Every single muslim country needs to be fixed right? Where do you start?

[hussain]

Every single muslim country needs to be fixed right? Where do you start?

Jihad against the kuffaar and those who support them, aid them or ally themsleves with the kuffaar, and Jihad to establish the Word of Allah azza wa jal and the word of Allah azza wa jal only.

Surely the first step is to kick the kuffaar out of our lands.

[hifdh]

Those Muslim lands under occupation and invasion have a right to defend, no doubt about it. But if you want to toss out stable governments of other Muslim lands, where do you start? Which country? How do you choose? Is this the correct method taken from the Quraan and Sunnah? Have you considered the practical consequences that will occur during the time where there is no government?! (Mass rape, theft, social disorder, no security).

Can you tell me you have seriously thought all of this through?

[hussain]

But if you want to toss out stable governments

Surely the criteria is not whether they are "stable" but whether they implement the Word of Allah azza wa jal.

What is this "stable" anyway? Who defines it?

Can you tell me you have seriously thought all of this through?

It's not a question of "thinking things through..." - but a question of doing what is right, doing what Allah azza wa jal commands us to do.

The infidels have invaded our lands. What is right is to fight them and kick them out and establish the Word of Allah azza wa jal.

What is right is to establish a place where we can be secure and live as Muslims according to the guidance of Allah azza wa jal - not according to the guidance of the infidels.

So do you think then that the Arabian Peninsula is a place where we can live according to the guidance of Allah azza wa jal only, and where we are secure from the infidels and their influence?

[hifdh]

When the Mongols invaded and desecrated Iraq... did they not all become Muslims within the space of years?

Why are you being so rigid with your opinion - look at what our great Ummah has been through and how other situations were handled, take lessons from it. You are living in a fantasy land if you think all that needs to be done is to kick all non-Muslims out of Muslim lands then magically the whole ummah will unite, become one big happy family Khilafah again. Muslims will fight Muslims unless the disease of Nationalism is eradicated FIRST, no?

[Abuz Zubair]

Just in case I was not clear I Hate Ibn Uthaymene,Bin Baz and any other HUMAN BEING that supports or gives bayah to the Hukam. You folks are very extreme in your support of the kuffar.

I guess you have the same feelings towards Humud b. Uqla al-Shu'aybi?

[hifdh]

He's quit the forum. You're not likely to hear his response for that any time soon then I guess!

[AbuUsama]

I guess you have the same feelings towards Humud b. Uqla al-Shu'aybi?

Akhi behave yourself, this is a public forum besides you are the Admin you cant just called Sheykh Humud b. Uqla al-Shu'aybi (rahimullah) the way you called him

[hussain]

Why are you being so rigid with your opinion

Assumption of yours that I am being rigid - but if being rigid means seeking to do what Allah azza wa jal commands then I'm being rigid.


You are living in a fantasy land if you think all that needs to be done is to kick all non-Muslims out of Muslim lands then magically the whole ummah will unite,

No need to go to extremes and make more assumptions ;)

My reply was in reply to your question - "where do you start?"

By Jihad and trusting in Allah azza wa jal.

Muslims will fight Muslims unless the disease of Nationalism is eradicated FIRST, no?

And the evil of allying with the kuffaar against the Muslims. And so on.

So, let's begin to eradicate the disease of nationalism by eradicating the nation of "Saudi Arabia", then?

[Umm Ahmed]

Akhi behave yourself, this is a public forum besides you are the Admin you cant just called Sheykh Humud b. Uqla al-Shu'aybi (rahimullah) the way you called him


But what brother Yusef said was fine right ?

[AbuUsama]

But what brother Yusef said was fine right ?

Of course besides Sheykh Humud b. Uqla al-Shu'aybi (rahimullah) never authorized any kafir troops to come to Saudi Arabia

other thing is sister i would like to advise you and all other sisters please keep the modesty , free mixing should not be allowed anywhere even in the internet or even in this forum, see the way you talk with brothers ("But what brother Yusef said was fine right ?") and so many places i noticed this happens, its really sad even my own sisters do not talk in front of me like this

this are the places where sisters loss their shyness and modesty honestly, i do not know how many will agree with me but i was forced to say

of course sisters can surf the net and learn but communication should not be allowed like this insha allah
Allah knows best

[hussain]

other thing is sister i would like to advise you and all other sisters please keep the modesty , free mixing should not be allowed anywhere even in the internet or even in this forum

Akhi, I agree - and while this is taking us off topic, could there be a rule that brothers are not allowed to directly reply to a post by a sister and vice-versa? And that when indirectly replying there can be no personal remarks or personal comments and that only the topic under discussion should be discussed (not "personalities" or personal emotions and the like)?

BTW I'm getting a bit tongue tied here trying to be diplomatic and not over step the mark so I hope you get my point.

[Yasir]

Just in case I was not clear I Hate Ibn Uthaymene,Bin Baz and any other HUMAN BEING that supports or gives bayah to the Hukam. You folks are very extreme in your support of the kuffar.Another example of relocating from one extreme to another…
If only you were aware that you’ve moved on from one set of Rabbis to another, and all without realising.

ليس اليتيم الذي قد مات والداه *** ان اليتيم يتيم العلم والأدب

But then again this is coming from an individual who described Sh. Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab rahimahullah as “a man that went against a Khalifa and stopped Sharia from being instituted in Muslim lands and replaced it with the biggest crime of the previous century.”

[Adem Al-Albani]

Bare madness. Allahul Musta'an.

[Umm Ahmed]

Of course besides Sheykh Humud b. Uqla al-Shu'aybi (rahimullah) never authorized any kafir troops to come to Saudi Arabia

other thing is sister i would like to advise you and all other sisters please keep the modesty , free mixing should not be allowed anywhere even in the internet or even in this forum, see the way you talk with brothers ("But what brother Yusef said was fine right ?") and so many places i noticed this happens, its really sad even my own sisters do not talk in front of me like this

this are the places where sisters loss their shyness and modesty honestly, i do not know how many will agree with me but i was forced to say

of course sisters can surf the net and learn but communication should not be allowed like this insha allah
Allah knows best

If I see something wrong then sometimes,I should to speak out against it , adding "right" at then end was not in a sneering gesture but rather to point out to you that its okay to make comments about some muslims but not the ones you like. I don't like topics like this , Shaykh Bin Baz if there is someone here whoo personally were with him when he made that fatwa or know a person was with him at his bed , I dont think we can throw around the word hate around . I also dont get how anyone can hate a muslim anyway.

I do agree that forums have a lot of free mixing , but there is a screen between us , I don't know whats right or wrong regarding this , if what your saying is true then there should be no sisters here at all .

Hussain we do edit smilies and try to catch the lols as much as we can , If you see any post that has those please report them , the same with personal comments, it only takes a minute.

[Salsabil]

Just in case I was not clear I Hate Ibn Uthaymene,Bin Baz and any other HUMAN BEING that supports or gives bayah to the Hukam. You folks are very extreme in your support of the kuffar.

Subhan Allah, only saw these comments now. Yusuf these men have done a lot of work for Islam, if they have made a mistake, all of us make them. But you cant just write off all of the benefit and work for Islam which they have done, subhan Allah, they have spoken so much haqq, that we can still shut mouths of talafies with their quotes. Even if they have made mistakes in their fatawa, we don’t know what kind of knowledge they had of the affairs. Make Bara from their mistakes, if you think so, but not from these muslims. They have supported Jihad around the world and just look at how Abdullah Azzam addresses Ibn Baz in his books. Even if someone of their caliber would call me personally a khawarij, or something like that, I wouldn’t make bara from them, inshaAllah, for I don’t know what lies they have been fed. A person cant change like this, in a matter of a year, after speaking the truth for decades. And Allahu Alam.

[Hamza]

Good post Salsabil....

[AlHindi]

Just in case I was not clear I Hate Ibn Uthaymene,Bin Baz and any other HUMAN BEING that supports or gives bayah to the Hukam. You folks are very extreme in your support of the kuffar.

SubhanAllah..

Dear brother, they had their misunderstandings and propaganda was fed, so we should give them benefit of doubt as bro Salsabil said.

Even Ibn Laadin (hafidhahullah) refers to Ibn Uthaymin (rahimahullah) as "the trustworthy scholar", and many Mujahedin who shed their blood purely for the Deen respects them. Did you not read that Al-Zarqawi (rahimahullah) suspended a Mujahid for obligating the bara'ah of Ibn Baz on his behalf? So are they too extreme in support of the kuffar? No, my bro, then why should we be so arrogant and extreme in our bara'ah from Muslims?

Rather we can be just and make bara'ah only from their mistakes and give them their due credit. Brother for Allah's Sake try to make unity among those who care for Islam.

If it was not for your face value, here you would have met harsh criticism from others; irrespective of your extreme zeal. But you can still make up, insha'Allah.

Or I ld have to thank you for being clear just in case, lest I ld have registered at your forums, but I don't think there would be anything worth constructive which is needed to curb this internet bara'ah among Muslims. I wish you will re-evaluate and take some time instead of haste, emotions and sheer anger. Insha'Allah...

Was-salaamu 'alaykum

[Noorah]

well you hate a lot of muslims and all those in the west because they have 'given bayah' to the country they live in. so yes everyone with a british or american passport has also given bayah of some sort...

[Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri]

Bismillah Alhamdulillah wassalaatu wassalaamu ala rasulillah...

those who slander the scholars and the deceased should bear in mind the Hadith Qudsi....

عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ:
" .....إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ قَالَ: مَنْ عَادَى لِي وَلِيًّا، فَقَدْ آذَنْتُهُ بِالْحَرْبِ،

رواه البخاري


On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ) said:

"Allah (mighty and sublime be He) said:

"Whosoever shows enmity to someone devoted to Me, I shall be at war with him.... "

[Bukhari]

[Um Abdullah M.]

other thing is sister i would like to advise you and all other sisters please keep the modesty , free mixing should not be allowed anywhere even in the internet or even in this forum, see the way you talk with brothers ("But what brother Yusef said was fine right ?") and so many places i noticed this happens, its really sad even my own sisters do not talk in front of me like this

this are the places where sisters loss their shyness and modesty honestly, i do not know how many will agree with me but i was forced to say

of course sisters can surf the net and learn but communication should not be allowed like this insha allah
Allah knows best

a smart attempt to shut up the sisters from speaking against ur falsehood and evil.

A sufi tried that with me when he didn't like my refutations against their deviancies.
but it didn't work.

We are trying our best not to go out of the boundries of the shari'ah in our discussion with the brothers.

we are not going to keep silent just because YOU, and some other members with ur same line of thinking, don't like it, and THINK it impermissable or against modesty.

and I don't see what is wrong with Um Ahmed's question?

[Fajr]

There was nothing wrong with Umm Ahmed's post - to indicate there was free mixing in it would be an injustice to her.

Alhamdulillah, I can say without a doubt that the few sisters on IA do not free-mix and those with the worst behaviour/adab tend to be unfortunately brothers.

[Hajjaj]

Doctor Naasir ibn Misfir az-Zahraanee narrates:

“Some students of knowledge came to the Shaykh complaining about a particular person. They explained his mistakes and some of the errors he has. So the Shaykh asked his assistant to begin taking notes so he could reprimand and advise this particular person.

Whilst the assistant was taking notes, one of the students added: “O Shaykh, he (even) speaks about you and slanders you”.

At that moment, the Shaykh asked his assistant to stop taking notes, as he feared it may be said that the Shaykh sought revenge for himself.”

Mawaaqif madhee.ah fee hayaat al-Imaam 'Abdul-'Azeez Ibn Baaz - Page 204


"Shaykh Muhammad Haamid who was the president of the group “As.haab al-Yameen” in Eritrea said:

“I arrived in Riyadh on a cold night, and did not have any (money) with which to pay for a hotel. So I thought about going to Shaykh ‘Abdul-‘Azeez ibn Baaz’s house; the time was 3 o’clock in the morning (and) I was hesitant, but (finally) decided to go (to the Shaykh’s house).


Dr. Muhammad ibn Sa'd ash-Shuway'ir narrates:

"During the Hajj of 1406 A.H. (1986 C.E.) the first official group of pilgrims came to Saudi Arabia from communist China, and along with this group came some scholars who visited Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez ibn Baaz to convey their greetings to him. The head of the group was a very old man who had studied at al-Azhar. He led the group of these scholars, who were seven in total, to greet Shaykh Ibn Baaz. After having conveyed their greetings to the gathering of people, the head of the group turned to me and asked me:

"Where is Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez ibn Baaz, and when will he arrive?"

So I said to him:

"There, he is the one you conveyed your greetings to just now."

But this old man did not believe me, and speaking in fluent Arabic he demanded:

"I want to see him now." So I said to him:

"There he is", firmly pointing him (Shaykh Ibn Baaz) out. So he stood up from his gathering and presented himself before Shaykh Ibn Baaz for a second time to greet him.

I then informed the Shaykh about the eagerness of this old man, so the Shaykh stood to embrace him. I saw the old Chinese man affectionately cling to the Shaykh's chest and cry, saying:

"All Praise be to the One Who has permitted me to see you; We used to hear about you whilst in China, that you give hope to the Muslims and are their "saviour" and support them."

Then one of his companions said (to Shaykh Ibn Baaz):

"Pray to Allaah O Shaykh, that He takes ten years of my life and adds it to yours, for that which you have benefited Islaam and it's people, as for me, then I am just a (simple) human being like others from the children of Islaam."

Then the old Chinese man began crying profusely turning again to embrace him (Shaykh Ibn Baaz) and repeating:

"All Praise be to the One Who has permitted me to see you before my death, since I used to long for this (opportunity) all my life.

Mawaaqif madhee.ah fee hayaat al-Imaam 'Abdul-'Azeez Ibn Baaz - Page 8-9

Saalih ibn Raashid al-Huwaymil narrates on the authority of one of the trustworthy (people):

“...that one day, one of the (hajj) pilgrims who came from one of the Soviet states entered the dwelling of the Shaykh (Ibn Baaz) in Minaa, and when he saw him he said:

“Are you Shaykh ‘Abdul-‘Azeez ibn Baaz?”

And the Shaykh replied in the most humble manner:

“Yes, I am ‘Abdul-‘Azeez ibn Baaz.”

So the pilgrim conveyed his salaam to him and embraced him, and kissed his (fore)head and said:

“By Allaah, I used to pray that Allaah does not cause me to die until I see (meet) you”.”

Mawaaqif madhee.ah fee hayaat al-Imaam 'Abdul-'Azeez Ibn Baaz - Page 12-13





I arrived outside his old mud-style house and found someone asleep by the gate. Having awoken, he opened the gate for me and I conveyed my greetings to him ever so quietly so that no-one (else) hears me since it was so late at night.

After a short while, I saw the Shaykh himself descending from the stairs with a pot of food. He extended greetings to me and gave me the food, saying:

“I heard your voice and brought this food for you, assuming you had not eaten this night”.

By Allaah, I was unable to sleep (the rest of the night) due to weeping at such noble manners”.”

Mawaaqif madhee.ah fee hayaat al-Imaam 'Abdul-'Azeez Ibn Baaz - Page 233

Why do you try to turn the hearts of the people ibn Sauda like your predecessor turned the hearts against Uthman. The youth may forget but those who reflect still remember . It has not been ten years and they try to throw stones at the grave. When you were a seed this man was seeking knowledge. Shame on anyone who holds there tongue when such language is typed so easily on the keyboard.

[Yousef al Khattab]

Subhanallah all I said basically was "hey ya wanna be Salafi, go ahead do your thing just skip these sleezy Shaikhs and refer to there Shaikhs and those that dont give bayah instead. These guys are responsible for the slaughter of 1000s of Muslims that goes unto this day and still "find the good brother, find the good". Can you do the same for Abu Layth from Reviving Islam? What about SAS can you find it in your hearts to find the good in them? I have been called a Idiot,Kharji,Takferi subhan Allah!! Call me anything you wish but just NEVER say I am associated with those tyrants because that is the filthy label I could have
Haykoum Allah,
Yousef

[Umm]

other thing is sister i would like to advise you and all other sisters please keep the modesty , free mixing should not be allowed anywhere even in the internet or even in this forum, see the way you talk with brothers ("But what brother Yusef said was fine right ?") and so many places i noticed this happens, its really sad even my own sisters do not talk in front of me like this

this are the places where sisters loss their shyness and modesty honestly, i do not know how many will agree with me but i was forced to say



It's quite a cheap shot to play the "lack of modesty" card, and it isn't even true with regards to what UmmAhmed said. Had she been in agreement with you, would you have said the same thing?

[suhail]

What stupidity brother yousuf when you refer to Abul Layth and SAS in every thread.

SAS accepted he prayed to dead people and he in his right mind said that he believed praying to other than Allah as OK. So what is the problem there when AZ made takfir on his based on that.

Regarding Abul Layth he writes all these garbage articles regarding hanablis and salafis that how they are wrong in there aqeeda and when he and his mates are refuted you get angry. Subahallah what a justice.

Then you go on and on about Saudi government like anybody here cares about them. When you talk about justice it goes both ways.

You defend people who believe that praying to other than Allah correct while hating others like Sh Bin Baz who was on correct aqeeda all his life. You just started your life as a muslim while these scholars have given there whole life for good of the muslims. They made mistakes and even huge mistakes but that doesn't give you the right to slander them like crazy with stupid name calling and stuff.

[Yousef al Khattab]

I didn't defend abu Layth but he is my brother & I love him for the sake of Allah for the past maybe 6-7 years that I have known him. With SAS I didn't defend him either but there are some issues that one may keep in mind b4 they straight out make takfir on him.BTW 2 threads is not every thread. Please try to be truthful when defending your 'home team' GO SALAFIS!!!!

[Abu Sabaya]

Let us look at a example the self proclaimed Salafis speak how great fatawa from Sh. Fawzan etc are have you ever seen Sh. Fawzan bring together a fatwa and understanding of a question like this (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546332)?Dear brother, I asked this in another thread, and I will ask it again:

How is it that you can consider Ibn Baz a kafir for allowing the help of disbelievers against other disbelievers - a perfectly legitimate Shar'i ruling - but here you respect Qaradawi while he passed a fatwa encouraging Muslims to help the disbelievers fight other Muslims (http://www.unc.edu/%7Ekurzman/Qaradawi_et_al.htm)?

[Yousef al Khattab]

The answer is dear akhi very clear. You are correct :mad: but I am just to addicted to Shaikh Yousef's books and style of writing, so please dear brother don't interfere with my lifestyle I will leave this issue to the scholars.

Abu Sabayyah-01
Yousef-00

[Abu Maysara]

How is it that you can consider Ibn Baz a kafir for allowing the help of disbelievers against other disbelievers - a perfectly legitimate Shar'i rulingin general yes, but bin baz applied this to the gulf war, hence not having the understanding of the reality, which is something that a lot of the palace sholars are suffering from. the iraqi regime=ba'thi=kuffar..well what is the sin of ahl as sunnah in iraq?
a scholar who does not understand that in war non combatants will die and in this case Muslims, these scholars should refrain from issue these kind of fataawa and stay to trivial matters, women issues and so on.
this was a political fatwa because only saddam hussein performed haj only a couple of years before this and he was a ba'thi all the time.
ppl are crying high when non combatants are killed in explosions in Muslim lands but when someone issue a fatwa that leads to the killing of hundreds of thousands of Muslims, yes from the first gulf war up to this day ahl as sunnah have been killed like rats in Iraq "thanks to" this perfect legitimate sharia ruling, and Islam is free from this kind of falsehood

[Abu Maysara]

I didn't defend abu Layth but he is my brother & I love him for the sake of Allah for the past maybe 6-7 years that I have known himThe answer is dear akhi very clear. You are correct :mad: but I am just to addicted to Shaikh Yousef's books and style of writing, so please dear brother don't interfere with my lifestyle I will leave this issue to the scholars.

Abu Sabayyah-01
Yousef-00
i assume that you are joking,
qardawi has transgressed Islam and Share'ah too many times to be mentioned in a short post,
did you ever read his Halal and Haraam in Islam? it is more like Halal and Halal in Islam..
abu Baseer, who usually is quite restrictive in his writing , made takfeer on him due to some extreme statements that was made by qaradawi ..make any search on the net and you will find inshAllah
you seems to have a lot of zeal for the Deen and then you say some strange things about qaradawi and this abu layth that i have really bad experience with, not personally but i was a member on his forum some time ago and as well as a paltalk room where he was talking and i must say that the person have changed his understanding of aqeedah quite a few times and his manhaj seems to be "floating" in the air..ready to go anywhere the wind will take it..
Allahul Must'aan
dont take this as an attack but a naseehah brother, we need to learn the correct aqeedah and manhaj from authentic sources and mingle with people of al Haq and not those who spread baatil, that is the implementation of al wala wa al baraa in our daily lives and you should love and hate for the sake of Allah swt only wa jazakAllahu kheiyran brother

[Abu Sabaya]

but when someone issue a fatwa that leads to the killing of hundreds of thousands of Muslims, yes from the first gulf war up to this day ahl as sunnah have been killed like rats in Iraq "thanks to" this perfect legitimate sharia ruling, and Islam is free from this kind of falsehoodSo, I guess the same can be said of 9/11?

[Abu Maysara]

So, I guess the same can be said of 9/11?

i assume that you consider Muslim and Kafir blood and wealth as equal with this saying of yours?
or are you telling me that just because of 9/11 many muslim countries were attacked and therefore we should not defend Muslims by attacking kuffar because they will in turn attack us and then more of us will be killed?

this is the defeatist theory, if the first muslims had this kind of thinking then Islam would not have been spread in the first place and no ghazawaat either...

are we looking for peace or for the spread of Islam?
know very well that peace will only be acchived by the spread of this Deen and this Deen will be spread by the sword whether ppl like to hear it or not

[Abu Sabaya]

No, I'm referring to the thousands and thousands of Muslim men, women, and children who were killed in the resultant invasion of Afghanistan, as well as the countless others who have been arrested and tortured since 9/11.

If you say those were unintentional results of 9/11 on the part of those who approved and carried it out, then we can likewise say that the deaths of the Muslims as the result of the US presence in the Gulf was also unintentional on the part of those who passed the fatwa for it.

[Abu Maysara]

No, I'm referring to the thousands and thousands of Muslim men, women, and children who were killed in the resultant invasion of Afghanistan, as well as the countless others who have been arrested and tortured since 9/11.

If you say those were unintentional results of 9/11 on the part of those who approved and carried it out, then we can likewise say that the deaths of the Muslims as the result of the US presence in the Gulf was also unintentional on the part of those who passed the fatwa for it.

al hamdulillah, i didn't have wrong thoughts about you.

you do believe then, that 1.the fatwa of allowing non muslims in the arabian peninsula to kill muslims is equal to 2.killing non muslims as that according to your understanding will lead to muslims being killed in retaliation.
so we should refrain in defending muslim lands and should basically let the non muslims invade muslim countries as they like.
well guess what, what does 9/11 have to do with and muslims massacred there?
what does 9/11 have to do with Palestine/Chechnya/Kashmir/Philippines/Indonesia/the 1st Afghan war and Bosnia?
all above mentioned slaughter on Muslims in those countries started before 9/11 but ppl with a defeatist mind like to refer all problems of the Ummah to 9/11 just as if the crusaders never done anything to us before that date.

[Abu Sabaya]

but bin baz applied this to the gulf war, hence not having the understanding of the reality, which is something that a lot of the palace sholars are suffering from.Once again, the same can be said of whoever thought up 9/11. He or they obviously wasn't aware of the reality of what would happen after this action took place, and should thus have refrained from giving a fatwa for such an act. Please be consistent.

a scholar who does not understand that in war non combatants will die and in this case Muslims, these scholars should refrain from issue these kind of fataawa and stay to trivial mattersAgain, the same can be said of 9/11. If they who approved it didn't know that Afghan non-combatants would be killed in the thousands in the expected US retaliation, your advice should apply to them, as well. Please be consistent.

you do believe then, that 1.the fatwa of allowing non muslims in the arabian peninsula to kill muslims is equal to 2.killing non muslims as that according to your understanding will lead to muslims being killed in retaliation.The disbelievers were brought into the Gulf with the intention to have them fight against other disbelievers (unless you consider the Iraqi army to have been a Muslim army).

[hifdh]

The Iraqi army consisted of majority Shii'a, Ba'athi's and hardcore secularists.

Listen to the Anwar al Awlaki lecture where he speaks about how Iraq was when he was growing up, the country was staunchly secular and the furthest from the deen.

[Abu Maysara]

take a lesson in modern warfare.
it is not about 2 armies meeting somewhere in the nowhere,
its about aerial bombing, carpet bombing , drowning the other side with rockets/missiles before going in with ground troops,
the population will pay the price and not so much the army.
no one is defending the riddah of the previous iraqi regime, but one needs to look at all the regimes in muslim countries, and tell me; which regime is Islamic?
the main focus is on the Muslim population that will get killed as a direct consequence of this fatwaa as well as allowing foreign troops setting up the army bases in the arabian peninsula which is a direct violation to Islam.

[Abu Sabaya]

take a lesson in modern warfare.Take a lesson in modern history.

the main focus is on the Muslim population that will get killed as a direct consequence of this fatwaaThe disbelievers were brought into the Gulf for the sole reason of helping to defend from the Iraqi army in August '90, and this is the only thing the fatwa addressed and endorsed. The bombing of Iraq came half a year later - January '91 - and was not foreseen by any except those who'd planned it.

[Niqaabis]

It's quite a cheap shot to play the "lack of modesty" card, and it isn't even true with regards to what UmmAhmed said. Had she been in agreement with you, would you have said the same thing?

Usually, when people are not sincere (in giving naseeha) and just looking for a fault to put someone down, it backfires on them and they end up looking bad

wallaahu a'alaam<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Tableeghi]

Is the Yusuf Al Khattab the same Yusuf Al Khattab from filisteen with atoor shop??

[MOHAMEDALSOMAL]

ASc if i may have a say in this bin baz has passed away but there are graver dangers lurking such as what the Christians are planning in the holy land lead by the crownless king which is to unify Islam with all other religions. We seek refuge with Allah from such a thing. Shiekh abu yahya alibi(hd)has urged al Muslims to kill this tyrant for the direction he is leading the Muslims in Saudi and the Umma at large. So brothers i would say that we should focus on this rather than bin baz. It is true that the scholars of the kings have done what the salf have warned us against namely entering upon the rulers.The disastrous consequence of that is being felt by the umma today with that bin baz fatwa for example At the same time its also true that we the shaabab have too much zeal at times and speak in inappropriate way a way that even the scholars don't speak to themselves with.I would say that this new threat to Islam should occupy our minds and how we can have a hand in making sure it is not implemented.I say that the shabaab who can should stand with the scholars in confronting this even with the scholars of the kings you never know them knowing that there are Muslims ready to support them may give them the courage to stop that crownless king in his tracks.Wa lahu aclam

[Yousef al Khattab]

Yes akhi that was my store.

[aboo ayaat al hindee]

you know, according to the qur'aan there are more than 4 or 5 traits of a munafiq.

[nomad]

To change the topic slightly, dont you think it was strange that as the dollar picked up in recent days, and the price of oil dropped, and saudi lost billions and so did uae, and qatar, for no apparent reason, in their polyethelene companies, and oil companies........

[yehiyaayyash]

Once again, the same can be said of whoever thought up 9/11. He or they obviously wasn't aware of the reality of what would happen after this action took place, and should thus have refrained from giving a fatwa for such an act. Please be consistent.


Are u kiddin?

[YounusAbdullahMuhammad]

To change the topic slightly, dont you think it was strange that as the dollar picked up in recent days, and the price of oil dropped, and saudi lost billions and so did uae, and qatar, for no apparent reason, in their polyethelene companies, and oil companies........

Actually it is not strange at all. The dollar went up because the government bailed out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in America meaning that U.S. taxpayers will now have to cover the 1/3 of the subprime mortgage crisis that has deepened the economic troubles of the U.S. This means that China and Japan do not have to worry about the dollars in their central banks that are in the billions because essentially U.S. taxpayers will pay for them.

In regard to the oil, Saudi Arabia alone increased production without any authorization by OPEC, showing again who they are loyal to. They did so to prevent 140-150 barrel prices from destroying the American economy and thereby the international capitalist system. Why would they do this?

They would do this because KingAbdullahFinancialDistrict.com is about to open next year and S.A like other Persian Gulf countries is opening up its markets to foreign investment and will have a stock exchange as well. This is becasue the Higher COuncil of Ulama are too busy discussing how many fingers to make stinja with over the affiars that matter the most. Essentially what you have is a changing world paradigm. The concept of governments and sovereih nation states is on the way out and
international feudalism modeled on TransNationalCorporations is in; the House of Saud, being loyal to its Zionist controllers, will stop at nothing to play a part in this as the only obstacle to this dajjalic system is JIHAD and as we discussed in our comparison between SA and Iran every indication points to weaker authority than we know about in SA.


So Saudi Arabia lost some in the short term, but they kept their loyalties in the international circles and cheated the ummah again out of billions. Remeber that the wealth of oil goes directly to the Kings account. I'm sure he won't miss much and in return along with their entrance into the WTO in 2005 they are expecting to make billions in the future. Here is an idea for you to chew on, perhaps they have wasted all of their oil and are entering what we call a peak stage where production will decrease and it will cost more to get it out of the ground. Their largest oil field has had so much water pumped into it that they now have to pay to seperate the oil from the water.

What you will see is that the fitnah from Najd wil certainly fight alongside of the dajjal and the people that go down to visit them will adopt his views. I suggest you listen to the reading of this thread and listen to our weekly halaqahs so you can actually understand the present reality and protect yourself from the fitnah of this dajjal rather than seek to make frineds associated with the "Kingdom" of Saudi Arabia, we can go through this more if you want and I am assuming that you are suggestnig this as proof that there is no intimate connection between U.S. and SA. I will tell you that the evidence you sighted is proof that there is and I hope you are on that platform rather than the former inshallah.

[Abu Muawiyah]

JazakAllahu kheiyr dear brother Yousef.
indeed this Ummah is being targeted from within and those munafiqeen needs to be dealth with as they are worse than the jews and christians in their "talbees iblees" in the form of a un "Islamic" rule with their supporters amongst palace scholars and their murji'e supporters cheering at them from the sidelines and attacking anyone who understand what needs to be done for this Ummah to wake up and accuse them to be khawaarij/extremists or like some lost individuals here calls them "Jihaadi kids"..may Allah guide them or give them what they deserve sooner rather than later

Ameen. Well said bro

[عامر]

In regard to the oil, Saudi Arabia alone increased production without any authorization by OPEC, showing again who they are loyal to. They did so to prevent 140-150 barrel prices from destroying the American economy and thereby the international capitalist system. Why would they do this?

Perhaps because the world is dominated by powerful capitalist countries who would sell their own mothers to ensure their beloved economic system does not die a death -- all of whom who would happily wage war on SA if they did not comply. Saddam's demise and the current situation of Iraq is now etched as an example for the rest of the Muslim world "do as we say else we'll make an Iraq outta ya".

The problem is you do not appear to understand or perhaps have not properly studied the causes of the decline of the ummah up to the point the Khilafah being dismantled, the land segregated and then the "nation building phase" followed by the altering of the education system by the colonialists via their puppet governments... a problem that has left the vast majorities of generations of Muslims up to this day in a state of religious weakness.

We can not dismantle the capitalist, secular, unislamic governments imposed on our lands and somehow snap on an Islamic model overnight -- one key factor is missing and that is a variant of populous compliance/want for this change. The Iranian Revolution was successful because enough people in Iran wanted the change and it was not because they became magical hardcore practising Shii'as overnight, it was because of the dislike the people had towards the ruling Shah and very clever propaganda tactics used to promote the Ayatushaytaans as a better alternative. And then the rest is history. The key problem today is that the people, be they in SA, Morrocco, Pakistan, Iraq, etc mostly do not want an Islamic government or the Khilafah system because they are generally conditioned towards thinking it will cause a regression in the quality of their lives -- they do not look through the Islamic goggles that you or I do for example.

Looking at the state of the ummah in all the various countries, except for the vulnerable war zones, where can the people be easily convinced to want an Islamic government? From all of the governments that we have the SA "kingdom" is in fact one of the most Islamic and has since its inception promoted a very solid and noble education program to its citizens and helped produce generations of deeply practising, non-secularised Muslims who know more about the deen than how many fingers to use for istinja my friend. The state of SA is definitely declining but a lot is being done to preserve the Islamic institutions and education ciriculums despite the mounting pressure from outside and inside SA (the secularists and Western agents spurring them on).

If you are going to go on a criticism rampage and behave like you have all the answers then I fear you may get lost in a world of disguised arrogance and I do not want that for you because I would not want it for myself. Do share your thoughts.

[Yousef al Khattab]

Perhaps because the world is dominated by powerful capitalist countries who would sell their own mothers to ensure their beloved economic system does not die a death -- all of whom who would happily wage war on SA if they did not comply. Saddam's demise and the current situation of Iraq is now etched as an example for the rest of the Muslim world "do as we say else we'll make an Iraq outta ya".

The problem is you do not appear to understand or perhaps have not properly studied the causes of the decline of the ummah up to the point the Khilafah being dismantled, the land segregated and then the "nation building phase" followed by the altering of the education system by the colonialists via their puppet governments... a problem that has left the vast majorities of generations of Muslims up to this day in a state of religious weakness.

We can not dismantle the capitalist, secular, unislamic governments imposed on our lands and somehow snap on an Islamic model overnight -- one key factor is missing and that is a variant of populous compliance/want for this change. The Iranian Revolution was successful because enough people in Iran wanted the change and it was not because they became magical hardcore practising Shii'as overnight, it was because of the dislike the people had towards the ruling Shah and very clever propaganda tactics used to promote the Ayatushaytaans as a better alternative. And then the rest is history. The key problem today is that the people, be they in SA, Morrocco, Pakistan, Iraq, etc mostly do not want an Islamic government or the Khilafah system because they are generally conditioned towards thinking it will cause a regression in the quality of their lives -- they do not look through the Islamic goggles that you or I do for example.

Looking at the state of the ummah in all the various countries, except for the vulnerable war zones, where can the people be easily convinced to want an Islamic government? From all of the governments that we have the SA "kingdom" is in fact one of the most Islamic and has since its inception promoted a very solid and noble education program to its citizens and helped produce generations of deeply practising, non-secularised Muslims who know more about the deen than how many fingers to use for istinja my friend. The state of SA is definitely declining but a lot is being done to preserve the Islamic institutions and education ciriculums despite the mounting pressure from outside and inside SA (the secularists and Western agents spurring them on).

If you are going to go on a criticism rampage and behave like you have all the answers then I fear you may get lost in a world of disguised arrogance and I do not want that for you because I would not want it for myself. Do share your thoughts.

Democratic elections (not that I agree with) have proven your post incorrect in Jordan,Ghaza,Eygpt,Algeria Islam has won. Using your logic 'Saudia' being so great in Islamic education and 'Shari3a' being the Holy Land and given the Ayah that forbids a Kafir to rule over the Haramein then 'Saudia' Arabia would be and is the prime objective. Sharpen your machetes and ice picks boys we are commin in!
http://bennyhills.fortunecity.com/elfman/77/ysguns2.gif

['Abd al-Kareem]

Brother عامر, our brother Yousef made a good, valid point. We constantly hear that the people don't even want Shari'ah (the person saying it may sincerely think so, or he may have a wicked agenda).

Despite not being countries which are under occupation, polls in some of the Muslim lands show that the people do, in fact, want Islam to be in power. Yes, maybe not all of them know exactly what they are asking for...and yes, maybe not all of them actually want Shari'ah [they just want some aspects of it], but it still shows that the the interest for Islam is there and strong, and it refutes the arguments that we have all heard before.

One of these arguments: the Muslims don't even want Shari'ah; if it were imposed upon them today, they would hate it. I've even heard (on these forums, no less) someone suggesting that the Muslims might even revolt [if Shari'ah were imposed on them en masse (which is an imaginary situation anyway because this cannot happen...)] because of how astray we are from the Deen. Which is a ridiculous thing to say.

'Abdullah 'Azzaam (rahimahullah) had something interesting to say related to this discussion. It is from his lectures Tafsir of Surat al-Tawba. But it's in Arabic, and I am no good at translating. I posted it before, let me dig it up.

Here it is: http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=96468&postcount=9

If someone can translate, that would be beneficial.