how to deal with madkhali arguments?

[hearandobey]

assalam alaykum,

there are a lot of madkhalis here where i live in and mashallah a lot of them DO care about islam and want to learn. when you present them authentic things they accept etc. but when their "more learned" ones come to check on them afterwards they give them lectures about this and that person, this and that manhaj etc.

one of the recent things that happened was that this madkhali was given an abdullah hakim quick lecture and he absolutely loved it. but afterwards he was told by a more "learned" brother that a.h.q. has bid'ah etc and we shouldn't discuss politics. why? because it keeps us away from Allah swt.

there are many more arguments the madkhalis always use about manhaj/certain da'ees or shuyookh etc, if people could share their experiences and how to respond to them properly that would be really useful inshallah. i'm looking for responses from particularly the ex-madkhali's here inshallah.

LASTLY, PLEASE do NOT turn this into a madkhali-bashing thread with saudi pictures etc. THIS IS NOT THE PURPOSE!!

[Um Abdullah M.]

one of the recent things that happened was that this madkhali was given an abdullah hakim quick lecture and he absolutely loved it. but afterwards he was told by a more "learned" brother that a.h.q. has bid'ah etc and we shouldn't discuss politics. why? because it keeps us away from Allah swt.

wa alaykum assalam

well first we have to know what this bid'ah is, then one can reply to him.

as for discussing politics, if it has to do with shari'ah, like talking about ruling by Allah's laws, wala and bara', jihad ...etc but an Islamic discussion with evidence, then that is part of deen, Islam is a way of life, it is not only making salat, fasting and hajj.
Islam includes different matters of life including some political issues.


there are many more arguments the madkhalis always use about manhaj/certain da'ees or shuyookh etc, if people could share their experiences and how to respond to them properly that would be really useful inshallah. i'm looking for responses from particularly the ex-madkhali's here inshallah.

I haven't really met any in real life, but the biggest problem with them is their attacks on individuals, especially people of knowledge.

I think the solution is to find out first what the problem they have with the shaikh is, then we can try to address it, though they are usually quite stubborn and difficult to discuss with, depending on the person.

maybe some other members who have more experience with them can help more.

[Hajjaj]

LASTLY, PLEASE do NOT turn this into a madkhali-bashing thread with saudi pictures etc. THIS IS NOT THE PURPOSE!!

Come on sister you can not take away all the ammunition from the people

Actions that are now taking place around the forum;

Dead silence, sound of crickets chirping

Scratching heads, unable to come up with a response

Wincing

Thinking of funny names

entering URL of image

Cursing

tapping keyboard

Cutting and pasting from previous post

Okay I will have to get this starting. Maybe you could say "Shaikh Rabee Sucks!", "Scholars for Dollars" or "Boot Licker" that will get them to listen to you.

Oh Yeah and there is aways Cyril in quotation marks.

[Magoo]

Come on sister you can not take away all the ammunition from the people

Actions that are now taking place around the forum;

Dead silence, sound of crickets chirping

Scratching heads, unable to come up with a response

Wincing

Thinking of funny names

entering URL of image

Cursing

tapping keyboard

Cutting and pasting from previous post

Okay I will have to get this starting. Maybe you could say "Shaikh Rabee Sucks!", "Scholars for Dollars" or "Boot Licker" that will get them to listen to you.

Oh Yeah and there is aways Cyril in quotation marks.

lol, that was too funny bro, i make a sincere request that this discssion is kept academic please, i think 2 of the issues under question are


discuss politics or not
taking beneficial knowledge from those that have differences in manhaj from yourselvesthis seems a good place to start in my opinion

[Hamza]

Cyril you aint too bad at entering URL for images, Copy/Paste from Troid/Trash.org yourself. :)

[Allah Diya]

LOL. You make a thread entitled "how to deal with madkhali arguments" and not a single answer is put forward to respond to the unbreakable solid arguments of Salafiyyah. When will brothers wake up and realize who the people Rasoolullah (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) was talking about when he said: la tazalu ta'ifatun min ummatee mansooreena la yadhurruhum man khadhalahum hatta taqooma ass'at
there will never cease to be a group in my ummah who will be helped (by Allah) THEY WILL NOT BE HARMED BY THOSE WHO FORSAKE THEM until the Hour is established. (sunan at tirmidhi: abwabul fitaan, hadith no. 2192)

That group is Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah, which is also known as the Salafiyyah in this time. From all sides they are being attacked by the forsaken ones, the asharis, soofis, shias, takfiris, qutbis, etc., but alhamdulillah all these attacks are failing miserably, and with one swoop salafiyyah will trash all these deviant groups to pieces.

[Hajjaj]

Cyril you aint too bad at entering URL for images, Copy/Paste from Troid/Trash.org yourself. :)

Must I spell everything out to you I was not condemning these practices. What I was saying is this is what is happening in response to the sisters post at that time.

She stated that we should not do this. So I thought this was taking away any possible response from people like you and sure enough true to form instead of responding to the sister you just posted the usual typical response; name calling, image posting etc... instead of a well thought out argument.

[Hamza]

It was in jest, like yours. Im sure you appreciated it. :)

[Allah Diya]

Brother Hajjaj forget these jahil people who have nothing better to do than make fun of our beloved ulama. These people are just losers sitting in UK who think al qaida and suicide bombing are "cool". This is natural development of a person who played violent video games in his childhood and watched dragonball z. But for those who love the deen sincerely with their heart and have in depth knowledge of Quraan and sunnah, they would never dare to abuse the knowledgable shuyukh, and they leave the refuting of deviants to those with more knowledge, only reiterating those refutations not making up their own.

[Hajjaj]

It was in jest, like yours. Im sure you appreciated it. :)

Okay now I get it!

[hearandobey]

brothers, PLEASE STICK TO THE TOPIC!

[Abu Nusaybah]

Bismillah.

Alhamdulillah was-salaatu was-salaam ala Rasulullah.

If you determine that the individual(s) in question are sincere, then you should get them to listen to a lecture called "Advice To The Salafi's Of The UK" by Ali al-Timimi (fakk Allah asrah). Although it's quite an old lecture, it's still very relevent as it was delivered back in the mid 90's when the Madkhali menace was really getting under way.

If you determine that the individual(s) in question are insincere followers of their hawaa you should just leave them to Allah (subhanahu wa t'ala) because life is just to short to waste time trying to guide such people.

Allah knows best.

wa salaamu alaykum.

[Um Abdullah M.]

Bismillah.

Alhamdulillah was-salaatu was-salaam ala Rasulullah.

If you determine that the individual(s) in question are sincere, then you should get them to listen to a lecture called "Advice To The Salafi's Of The UK" by Ali al-Timimi (fakk Allah asrah). Although it's quite an old lecture, it's still very relevent as it was delivered back in the mid 90's when the Madkhali menace was really getting under way.

If you determine that the individual(s) in question are insincere followers of their hawaa you should just leave them to Allah (subhanahu wa t'ala) because life is just to short to waste time trying to guide such people.

Allah knows best.

wa salaamu alaykum.

is that lecture available online?

and the problem is, will they accept listening to his lecture since he is on their innovators list?

[salahuddin_ayyubi]

^ It can be found here (http://www.halaltube.com/ali-al-tamimi/audio/advice-to-the-salafis-in-the-uk)

[Um Abdullah M.]

jazakallahu khayran

[Abu Nusaybah]

Bismillah.
is that lecture available online?
Yes. It's available in four parts
Part 1A (http://www.kalamullah.com/Ali%20Al-Timimi/Advice%20to%20the%20UK%20Salafis%20-%20Part%201A.mp3),
Part 1B (http://www.kalamullah.com/Ali%20Al-Timimi/Advice%20to%20the%20UK%20Salafis%20-%20Part%201B.mp3),
Part 2A (http://www.kalamullah.com/Ali%20Al-Timimi/Advice%20to%20the%20UK%20Salafis%20-%20Part%202A.mp3),
Part 2B (http://www.kalamullah.com/Ali%20Al-Timimi/Advice%20to%20the%20UK%20Salafis%20-%20Part%202B.mp3)
and the problem is, will they accept listening to his lecture since he is on their innovators list?
This goes back to my point as to whether or not the individual(s) is sincere in wanting to follow the truth or not. If they are sincere, then they should be willing to at least listen, even if at the end of it they disagree with what is presented.

wa salaam.

[hearandobey]

unfortunately this individual won't listen to ali at-timimi, any other suggestions? jazakallahu khayran anyway

[the_stranger]

ak47 should suffice against a madkhali, they are a bunch of munafiqs and spies. hmmmmmmmmmm

[hearandobey]

If People Don't Stick To The Topic, I Will Report On Their Posts.

I've Asked Now For The 3rd Time To Please Stick To The Topic And Stay Respectful.

Keep Your Thoughts To Yourself!

[Abu Maysara]

Sister Hear and Obey, are you looking for english material or is arabic ok?
i found that individual da'wah to this particular group is more efficient than to speak to them as a group wa Allahu A'lam.
and just a advise, if you would like someone to listen to a lecture that in your opinion is mashAllah great, do not hesitate just because of this particular sheikh is on their "black list". just give the lecture to the person in question and say something like, "i just heard this lecture and mashAllah it was really beneficial, i thought i would like to share it with you".
make du'a that the person does not ask you for the name of the sheiykh and if thats the case, well just be frank, tell the person the name of the sheiykh and if they object to the sheikh then say something like " oh, you dont like the sheiykh? well you know if you only can listen to the lecture and tell me exactly what is so wrong so that i may benefit from what you know about him"...
trust me, making da'wah is a lot of how you present your "case", a lot of hikmah is needed, inshAllah

[Um Abdullah M.]

ak47 should suffice against a madkhali, they are a bunch of munafiqs and spies. hmmmmmmmmmm

authubillah
killing a Muslim is a major sin

[the_stranger]

authubillah
killing a Muslim is a major sin

Dear sister i was being sarcastic or is only Abuz Zubair ALLOWED to be sarcastic on here hmmmmmmmm lol

Go tell the above to your king and go write on the grave of Sh bin baz that killing muslims is a major sin dont tell me that sister

[Nooristan]

ak47 should suffice against a madkhali, they are a bunch of munafiqs and spies. hmmmmmmmmmm

not even a joke even it was only sarcastically,folks may read you wrong post with due to that,I sat with a Muslim brother who believed this i,e a madkhali by default of what their on are kuffar like their shayuuk,the man was an utter takfeeri fool who no doubt were he in the hands of the mujahideen would shut his mouth lest he meet his torment by way of losing his head......................

[Nooristan]

Dear sister i was being sarcastic or is only Abuz Zubair ALLOWED to be sarcastic on here hmmmmmmmm lol

Go tell the above to your king and go write on the grave of Sh bin baz that killing muslims is a major sin dont tell me that sister

you're not sincere on any level here,you say dear sister yet you mock at her in you're next sentence,sort yourself out brother cos you're looking evil going on like this...

wa salam wr wb...............

[Abu Nusaybah]

Bismillah.
unfortunately this individual won't listen to ali at-timimi, any other suggestions? jazakallahu khayran anyway
one of the recent things that happened was that this madkhali was given an abdullah hakim quick lecture and he absolutely loved it. but afterwards he was told by a more "learned" brother that a.h.q. has bid'ah etc and we shouldn't discuss politics. why? because it keeps us away from Allah swt.

Now the above is the crux of the matter. One of the main traits of the Madkhalis, is that they coerce their followers to become fanatical followers of personalities who've been given the official Seal of Approval by "more learned" brothers. This is done by the threat of being declared "off the manhaj". Unfortunately, this causes many people not to think for themselves so they rent out their minds to these "more learned" brothers. I don't think there is much you can do for such people until they decide to think for themselves.

I think the best approach when dealing with these people, is to make them do a critique of the "salafi" manhaj of the Madkhali's and compare it to what Salaf us-Saliheen were upon. If these people are honest and sincere they will find that in most instances, the Madkhalis are upon the exact opposite of what Salaf us-Saliheen were upon.

Just a few of examples:

1. The Salaf us-Saliheen are known to have been "harsh with the Kuffaar, and gentle with the Muslims". Today it is well known that the Madkhalis are the exact opposite; "gentle with the Kuffaar, and harsh with the Muslims".

2. The Salaf us-Saliheen are known and loved for their humility and humbleness. Whereas today, the Madkhalis are known and hated for their self-righteous pride and arrogance.

3. The Salaf us-Saliheen are known for their following and adherence to the Qur'an and Sunnah. Today the Madkhalis are known for their fanatical blind following of personalities who've been given the official Seal of Approval - even when these personalities go against the Qur'an and Sunnah.

I could go on, but this should suffice to illustrate my point. The Madkhalis claim that they are upon the manhaj of the Salaf, but their claims just don't stand up to scrutiny.

And Allah knows best.

wa salaam

[hearandobey]

Sister Hear and Obey, are you looking for english material or is arabic ok?
i found that individual da'wah to this particular group is more efficient than to speak to them as a group wa Allahu A'lam.
and just a advise, if you would like someone to listen to a lecture that in your opinion is mashAllah great, do not hesitate just because of this particular sheikh is on their "black list". just give the lecture to the person in question and say something like, "i just heard this lecture and mashAllah it was really beneficial, i thought i would like to share it with you".
make du'a that the person does not ask you for the name of the sheiykh and if thats the case, well just be frank, tell the person the name of the sheiykh and if they object to the sheikh then say something like " oh, you dont like the sheiykh? well you know if you only can listen to the lecture and tell me exactly what is so wrong so that i may benefit from what you know about him"...
trust me, making da'wah is a lot of how you present your "case", a lot of hikmah is needed, inshAllah

jazakallahu khayran. i'll keep that in mind. it reminds of me of some of the madkhalis that i know that use fiqh us-sunnah (written by an ikhwaani) and those that use "kitaab ul-eemaan" by ibn taymiyyah with footnotes from sayyid qutb's tafseer but "they just take the good and leave the bad out". inshallah i'll keep this in mind.

with regards to the material, both languages are okay although i'd prefer english at this stage as quite a few of the madkhalis i know are converts with no knowledge of arabic.

also, jazakallahu khayran to abu nusaybah for your post!

[Hajjaj]

It sounds like this person is not boycotting you. So why are you two arguing anyway. Just treat this sister like a sister and do not argue with her. Must you two agree in lock step or you can not be sisterly with one another? Why must you convince her not to be a Madkhli? Will you abandon her if she does not leave of her beliefs? If not maybe your behavior will speak better than anything else. If this person is aways arguing with you why do you want to be around them?

[Mashaagheb]

Why must you convince her not to be a Madkhli?
The sister here is asking for advice, if you do not have any please refrain from posting this non sense, or are you a follower of this "blind following of a scholar manhaj" ?