taqleed in aqeedah is okay?

[hearandobey]

assalam alaykum,

i recently attended a lecture of a shaykh from nadwatul ulama, who when asked about doing taqleed of aqeedah (questioner was asking based on jawharat al-tawheed), the shaykh replied that we all do taqleed in aqeedah. he then cited the following examples:

- when abu bakr (RA) became muslim, he didn't start questioning the prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) or go through rational debates with him, he knew the prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) was a trustworthy and truthful person, so based on that he followed him.

- when the arab tribes accepted islam, they gave allegiance based on when their tribal leaders came to them and told them about it and the people just accepted because they trusted their leader

etc.etc.

he then explained how it's not possible for us to go through every single argument/option there is, for example how if we were to try many different types of foods in one room and somewhere down the line we got full and we didn't finish etc.

i've always understood that you're not supposed to do taqleed in aqeedah, what is the correct understanding? jazakumallahu khayran.

[hifdh]

i have also attended halaqas of a nadwi shaykh... on the topic of taqleed in aqeedah he said basically what you are saying - a brother told me afterwards that the later Ash'ari scholars tend to think along these lines but the more classical Ash'ari scholars did not say you can do taqleed in aqeedah.

The problem for me is that I too believe that in aqeedah we should not do taqleed but the shaykh's argument/point made a lot of sense to me, this is something I too am looking in to and hope brothers can share thoughts on.

[Magoo]

thats interesting, i think alot of people do taqleed in aqeedah without realising, Allah knows best

[Abu Maryam PK]

Bismillah
Basilcally some asha'irah believe a person who accepts islam and believes based on taqleed is a kafir. Hafiz ibn hajar refuted them in the 13th vol of his fathul bari. Its an excellent read. Enuff to refute marifa goons than ibn hajar was not an ash'ari.

However, the definition of taqlid to them is different. They say that a person must believe based upon rational arguments and not just Quraan and sunnah, as that is the daleel in their perverted eyes. So if i believe that Allah Provides me based upon what the Prophet sallallaho'alaiwasallam informed me, i am still a Kafir because i didnot use rational thinking/kalam. This is what i understood from reading the fathul bari. May be AZ can correct me.

Second the shaykh is wrong to say:
when abu bakr (RA) became muslim, he didn't start questioning the prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) or go through rational debates with him, he knew the prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) was a trustworthy and truthful person, so based on that he followed him.
Obeying the Prophet sallallao'alaiwasallam is taqid? Comeon ... what is the definition of taqlid?
Taqlid means to follow some one's saying (whose saying in itself isnot counted as a proof in shar'iah), without knowing the evidence of the sayer. If the sayer mentions his evidence, then it no longer remains taqleed. It means directly following the evidence (Al Tahreer by Ibn Hummam Al-Hanafi, Al Uthaymeen's Sharah Alwaraqaat etc). Ibn Hazm in vol 1 of his al-muhalla says that if the Mufti says this is the command of Allah and His Rasool sallallahoalaihiwasallam, then that suffices and it is not taqlid any longer.

So by definition, taqlid as it is known to people allowing and disallowing it, does not include following a hadith or Quraan. Similarly, the people who were Beduins, who were they following. They trusted that those who brought them the Message were taking it directly from the Prophet sallallaho'alaihiwasallam and beliefs like we know are not based upon opinions that is why mauqoof ahadith in the chapters of beliefs are called mufoo'un hukmun(مرفوع حكماً) i.e. what the sahabi said about beliefs can be attributed to the Prophet sallallaho'alaihiwasallam.

[asharee_salafi]

assalam alaykum,

i recently attended a lecture of a shaykh from nadwatul ulama, who when asked about doing taqleed of aqeedah (questioner was asking based on jawharat al-tawheed), the shaykh replied that we all do taqleed in aqeedah. he then cited the following examples:

- when abu bakr (RA) became muslim, he didn't start questioning the prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) or go through rational debates with him, he knew the prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) was a trustworthy and truthful person, so based on that he followed him.

- when the arab tribes accepted islam, they gave allegiance based on when their tribal leaders came to them and told them about it and the people just accepted because they trusted their leader

etc.etc.

he then explained how it's not possible for us to go through every single argument/option there is, for example how if we were to try many different types of foods in one room and somewhere down the line we got full and we didn't finish etc.

i've always understood that you're not supposed to do taqleed in aqeedah, what is the correct understanding? jazakumallahu khayran.


Assalaam alaykum,

Have you been talking to HT ? ;) lol

They have a similar thing aswell, except they think its wajib to prove God via greek arguments.
I think doing taqleed of your fitrah is different to doing taqleed of something that you KNOW is not from God.

[Abu Maryam PK]

Bismillah
I think doing taqleed of your fitrah is different to doing taqleed of something that you KNOW is not from God.

Good point

[Um Abdullah M.]

Here is what Ibn Hajar rahimahu Allah said in al Fath regarding this matter

http://www.al-eman.com/hadeeth/viewchp.asp?BID=12&CID=657#s1

starting from his saying:
قَوْله ( فَلْيَكُنْ أَوَّل مَا تَدْعُوهُمْ إِلَى أَنْ يُوَحِّدُوا اللَّه فَإِذَا عَرَفُوا ذَلِكَ )

[qadri]

Check this post which refutes the Kullabite Asharites

الاشاعرة يهدمون الاشعرية


الاشاعرة يهدمون الأشعرية


قولهم في الأيمان

قال الشيخ إبراهيم إبراهيم بن حسن اللقاني في منظومته :
وفسر الإيمان بالتصديق والنطق فيه الخلف بالتحقيق
وفسر هذا الكلام البيجوري ص64ـ51 بقوله ( إن الإيمان هو مجرد التصديق والعمل الصالح متغايران ومن صدق بقلبه ولم يتفق له الإقرار في عمره لا مره ولا اكثر من مره مع القدرة على ذلك فهو مؤمن عند الله ولكنه شرط في إجراء الأحكام الدنيويه )
قلت : وهذا التأصيل عند الاشاعرة لها حدود ثلاثة
الأول: أن الإيمان هو مجرد التصديق القلبي .
الثاني:أن الإيمان هو تصديق ونطق فقط .
الثالث : أن الأعمال لا علاقة لها بالإيمان كمالا وأصلا .
وقد صرح بهذا الخلاف عبد القاهر البغدادي في كتابه أصول الدين ص248/249 فأما حقيقتهما على لسان أهل العلم فأن أصحابنا اختلفوا فيهما على ثلاثة مذاهب .

http://www.kuwaitchat.net/msgs/showthread.php?t=63618

[hearandobey]

jazakumallahu khayran for your replies, although the issue till hasn't been cleared properly...

abuz zubair, sharif abu jafar?

[Abuz Zubair]

From what I know, taqleed is not allowed in the most basic fundamentals of Islam, such as Allah being one and that we worship Him alone, etc.

But taqleed in terms of other matters of faith may be permissible.

As for the commoners becoming Muslims just because their tribal leaders became Muslims, then, yes, you can call it taqleed, but for it to be sound faith, one must have full conviction in what he is believing in.

So, for instance, a person may be a Muslim because he was born in Muslim family, but as he grows older and over time, faith begins to take root deeply in his heart, such that he isn't a believer just because his parents were, but because he is really convinced.