The Shia claim of Imaamah-----Why not in Qur'an

[asharee_salafi]

Why is it that the Shia claim of Imaamah is not in the Qu'ran i.e that God had choosen leaders from the ahl bayt to rule because they know everything, see everything and beyond making mistakes and hence are more fit to rule.

The new ahlelbayt website lays a challenge which the shia havent been able to meet, and that is, without giving any of their own tafsir over an ayat, tell us where Allah mentioned Imaamah?

Note: The word 'Imaam' in the Qur'an will not suffice.

[Abu Nusaybah]

Bismillah.
Why is it that the Shia claim of Imaamah is not in the Qu'ran i.e that God had choosen leaders from the ahl bayt to rule because they know everything, see everything and beyond making mistakes and hence are more fit to rule.
As salaamu alaykum.

The answer is in the question. Al-Qur'an is a book of Tawhid and Iman, whereas the rafidi belief of imaamah is Shirk and Kufr.

And Allah knows best.

[ahmedjbh]

you have been here since october 2004 and you havent worked out how to use the search button?

this was discussed very recently, but unfortunately the discussions became arguments as some people are unable to be reasonable.

[leo]

And the arguments turning into embarrassment for those, who couldn't prove Imamate from Quran for the last 1400 years. Tough luck :D

[kamran]

Assalam o alaikum Leo,

ahmedjbh has strange tendencies. I wrote this way back:

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?p=70408&

I wish I could call blind-following an act but I cannot. It is merely a pitiful state of mind.

Kamran

[ahmedjbh]

somehow you tried to imply that Fatimah, Ali and his decsendants were not part of his family, which didnt deserve a reply.

[leo]

Brother Kamran, Its not their fault, they have been trained as such. If they don't follow these rubbish beliefs , their minority sect will collapse immediately, a secret their elders (ayatolls/hujjatolls/grand ayatolls) know very well. So whatever they believe is out of compulsion and doesn't come as a surprise to Muslims :D

[kamran]

somehow you tried to imply that Fatimah, Ali and his decsendants were not part of his family, which didnt deserve a reply.

Oh my! His grey cells have gone for a walk! And then he complains of good manners and not doubting one's intentions!

[kamran]

Anyway for the record, this Shia abused this particular verse:

The quran says

Say (O Muhammad, unto mankind): "I do not ask you a wage for this except the love of my kinsfolk." (42:23)

And my reply was this:

Ahmedjbh,

I usually do not write on such issues because I know very little but I am seriosly flabbergasted by that one.

Can you tell me when was this verse revealed? I feel something really strange in your interpretation:



This is a Meccan Surah.

Ali RA had not married Fatimah RA at that time. How does it fit the two?

Since they were not married, they did not have children as well. How does it concern Hassan RA and Hussain RA.

Among his family members, there were many who Prophet SWS's bitterest enemies. One of them was his real uncle Abu Lahb, who has the dubious distinction of having a Surah naming him as a cursed one. Should we love him too?

Furthermore, the Prophet SWS's relatives were not just his paternal relatives: There were relatives from his SWS mother's side as well as from Khadija RA's family. And of course, all these families had both his companions and some of his bitterest enemies. How come it was only limited to a few people some of whom were not even born at that time? Other 'unaddressed' relatives include Abu Bakr RA and Umar RA (fathers-in-law of Nabi SWS), Uthman (two times son-in-law) etc.

And lastly, and most critically, this verse addresses Kuffar. Do you want us to believe that the Prophet SWS's message (which was to worship Allah alone) is all about this? That I do not want anything except that you love some of my relatives? I mean the Kuffar who hated Tauheed like anything were being asked to love some of the Prophet SWs's family?


I mean this is seriously weird: A man goes to some people and offers them something that they hate. Like for example, I come to you and offer you something that you really hate and then tell you: Please, in return for this wonderful favour, only love my family. Wow! Man you seriously need to understand the spirit behind the call of the Prophets (peace and blessings of Allah be upon them).

I mean were you even serious when you typed that? I mean was it some knee-jerk disorder or what? I mean this is like .. you know ... a loose cannon.

I had rarely read your posts but you were apparently trying to tell the folks around how logical you are and all. But honestly, this is weird. I mean you did not even think what you were doing! Phew!

Imam Ibn Kathir tells us:

Sa`id bin Jubayr said, "To be kind to the family of Muhammad.'' Ibn `Abbas said, "No, you have jumped to a hasty conclusion. There was no clan among Quraysh to whom the Prophet did not have some ties of kinship.'' Ibn `Abbas said, "Except that you uphold the ties of kinship that exist between me and you.'' This was recorded by Al-Bukhari. It was also recorded by Imam Ahmad with a different chain of narration.


And as far as my knowledge goes, this has been reported by Imam Tirmadhi, Imam Ibn Jarir Tabri, Imam Muslim etc. as well.

And anyway, I am sorry Ahmedjbh if I offended you but this was a real classic. One sincere advice: Please do not make the Quran a victim of your desires. Allah addressed you in a human language so that you may understand it and get guided. It was not revealed for such nasty misadventures.

May Allah guide us all.

Kamran

[suhail]

This guy is a proven rafidhi in the other thread. He has already said he doesn't love the best of the mankind, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and our mother Aisha (RA) may allah be pleased with them all.

A person who can sink that low is not worthy of debate but pity and anger. It is really not worth talking to him as he has exposed his hatred clearly.

JK
Suhail

[hifdh]

The irritating thing about ahmedjbh is his consistent habit of dodging questions or replying with snake-like responses to weasel out of the tight situations he regularly finds himself in. Instead of behaving out of sincerity he behaves out of hizbiyyah towards his shaytani cult and continues to grasp at thin strings.

But bare in mind if ahmedjbh has not heard of something or come across a particular book or fatwa of one of his cult priests then surely it can't be anything true, it can't be but a lie of the ahlus-sunnah!!...

Pointless "discussing" with him - it's better to raise awareness amongst other Muslims.

[ahmedjbh]

the best of the mankind, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and our mother Aisha (RA) may allah be pleased with them all.

where did you get this from?

This is the bidah of ahl wahabies, they elevate the companions above their station, even when their deeds dont warrant it.

[ahmedjbh]

The irritating thing about ahmedjbh is his consistent habit of dodging questions or replying with snake-like responses to weasel out of the tight situations he regularly finds himself in. Instead of behaving out of sincerity he behaves out of hizbiyyah towards his shaytani cult and continues to grasp at thin strings.

But bare in mind if ahmedjbh has not heard of something or come across a particular book or fatwa of one of his cult priests then surely it can't be anything true, it can't be but a lie of the ahlus-sunnah!!...

Pointless "discussing" with him - it's better to raise awareness amongst other Muslims.

What comical is that the wahabies seem to have this selective reading which means they only bring either fake sources or minority opinions.

[Ahmad ibn Philip]

where did you get this from?

This is the bidah of ahl wahabies, they elevate the companions above their station, even when their deeds dont warrant it.

I believe there are numerous Hadeeth concerning the merits of Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and Aisha.

Also, Imam Ahmad mentions in Usool'u'Sunnah of the Hadeeth where the Prophet sallallahu alayhi'wa'salam stated the best of his Ummah is Abu Bakr, then Umar, then Uthman. There are so many Hadeeth recorded by Al Bukhari on the merits of Abu Bakr and Umar. Furthermore, how is that a bid'ah of the "Wahabbis"??? These are narrations that pre-date Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab and if people quote them or make reference to their context, they're "ahl'wahabies"???

You don't make sense man.

[leo]

where did you get this from?

Obviously not from shia sources, representing 7.58% followers of Ibn Saba :D

[asharee_salafi]

Ahmadjbh,

I think slowly now your true colours are coming out ...:)...it had to in the end huh?

[asharee_salafi]

AMAZING TAHREEF BY THE SHIA:

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/how_to_reply/en/index.php

Scroll right down and look at how the change the verses.

http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/imamah/the-quran-challenge-3

Now, look at how the Muslims quote those verses.

See the difference?