HT & their U turn on entering parliament

[asharee_salafi]

Assalam^ualaykum

I would just like to inform everyone about the change in stance of entering a candidate in parliament by HT, has any other brother come across this whom knows HT well?

The change is utter hypocrisy on their behalf. For so many years they have been insulting those who held different opinions to them, and now they want to say that it is halal to enter parliament on the position accountability (!) as if anyone is going to listen to HT.

Weren't these the same people who said it doesn't matter how much you march, or what you do in the parliament, western governments have political and economic agenda's that can't be changed!

The reason why they have come out with this now is clear. HT are trying to save themselves from a ban and are trying to portray themselves as modest as possible, so that they do not get banned, by doing this, they are also trying to attempt a "coup" on the naive Muslims, firstly, they are trying to fill in the vacuum left by MCB, secondly, they are somehow trying to obtain credit from being called "extremist" in the media, by this they get further credence.

The reason why it’s a farcical is not because entering parliament is wrong or right ( I am not qualified to discuss this and have no opinion) but rather it’s a farce because :

a) They have no scholars who have issues a ruling upon it. This change is a result of trying to save their skin and not “intellectual conviction”
b) It shows how depraved and extreme the muqalid nature of the average HT member is. All of a sudden those who give rowdy speeches against entering parliament has gone down the pan. Overnight people who have been preaching against entering parliament for about 10 –15 years have suddenly changed, without seeking any form of reasoning, scholarly advice etc…..the only reason is because a message has passed down the “structure” of HT and their mushraf told them to change their opinion!!

Now the typical moronic reply of these muqalidoon is the following…. ‘We never said entering parliament was wrong , we did this in 1954 and 1957 !’

Well firstly, that may be true, but the reason why the party did this in the 1950’s is because T.Nabahani and his party were initially influence by the ikhwan, when they realised that entering parliament as pointless ( according to them) they from there on in said it was wrong. Therefore why is HT

a) Lying
b) Using examples from the 1950’s when they KNOW they clearly changed their position!

If you speak to HT, they genuinely believe that they haven’t changed in their opinions!

And please, I don’t want any HT’s coming on saying how its not the right time to attack HT.
That’s strange, since when has it been the right time to attack HT? The climate for Muslims has always been harsh….ahh I know……the reason why we shouldn’t attack HT is because now its their TURN to face the heat in the kitchen, when things get difficult for them they expect everyone else to lay down any criticism of ht, its almost like a crime to correct them!
Though what is interesting is that HT is still attacking ahl sunnah , still spreading Aristotle type beliefs, still trying to create sedition based upon group lines in the party, still trying to create divisions based upon so and so is in such and such group and you must stay away from him, still trying to show how shia’ism is still part of the sunnah, still backbiting and slandering those people whom they are “co operating in the khayr” with, still violating conditions of the unity, still approaching adolescent teenagers, still trying to have late night discussions about coups ( though some of them are naïve converts who cant even purify themselves.)

InshALLAH, I will like to put down other things which HT have changed, such as their new bumchuming with the stop the war coalition , though before HT were threatened it was a great tragedy to see Muslims joining forces with them albeit in their opinion, or what about Taji Mustapha chairing conference with the conservatives and liberal democrats in luton mosque ( shame upon HT for their hypocrisy! Again, I'm not saying its wrong to, Im just tryig to expose how muqalid they are)….more to come!

P.S Watch how some of the HT will now come on this board, the usual rif raf, it often seems that HT don't watch our forums, but believe me, they do! They have probably assigned "agents" to check up on these forums..although I think that recently a party memo was sent to the shabab saying that they should not do online discussions anymore...

WS

[Intoodeep]

although I think that recently a party memo was sent to the shabab saying that they should not do online discussions anymore...


ONE of the signs of the groups of extreme deviancy and taqleed (HT, Madkalees, etc) is that they do not indulge in such discussions because they know they would Lose them !

[Salahudin]

Sallam
One of the characteristics of a good muslim is honesty. This is sadly lacking on many of the posts on this forum. Equally lacking is an understanding of what or HT is thus this ignorance leads many to slipping up and make false statements.

HT does not partake in kufr systems nor does it encourage its members to do so especially in the western assemblies or parliaments.


Ws

[asharee_salafi]

AHHH good old salahudeen

Yes but bro, you are part of hizbut tahrir wannabe version 2, you are not part of hizb ut tahrir , authentic version number 1, whos emir is abu rishta.

ARE YOU?

:)

WS

P.S Nice try!

[Salahudin]

AHHH good old salahudeen

Yes but bro, you are part of hizbut tahrir wannabe version 2, you are not part of hizb ut tahrir , authentic version number 1, whos emir is abu rishta.

ARE YOU?

:)

WS

P.S Nice try!

You seem to very pro - ex HT (Abu Rishta and co)..I wonder why? Is it because you admire those who bend the rules of Islam or because you hate HT for standing firm and presenting the stronger arguements?

[Abu Nihla]

It’s ridiculous to charge a group with hypocrisy just because they changed a stance they earlier held. Am not furnished with the evidence that has been given so far, since am learning this for the first time on this board. However saying they are hypocrites is to the extreme since we have many like Hamas, Ikhwan, Salfi not mentioning the greater scholars who have changed opinions.

Your hatred of HT by labeling then as anty ahl-sunnah is baseless.

[asharee_salafi]

Abu Nihla,

You speak as though your not with the party, bro, we know you are! I reconise you from before,

Are you telling me, that the theya re not "anti ahl sunnah". Comeone, Get off it and come back down to earth from pluto.

So saying, that punishment from the grave, Isa As return, the siraat, etc are not held by the party as things within the realm of ikhtilaf, such that you can

a) believe
b)doubt
c)disbelieve

What about your murji posistion on Imaan saying that its just tasdeq?

What about denying Allah being seen?
What about your party shia'ism?

What about your approaching of 15 year old little boys going through puberty taking them round your flat for a shesha and "culturing them" ( and when you put them in the car you play blak-stone or soldiers of Allah to show that your 'one of the lads'), threatening them with the hellfire if they don't join ( if you can't "intellectually convince them" of course) or hyping them up with made up stories about military coups.

I could go on with your "grooming" tactics...If I had children, I would warn them to stay away from peedo's and HT's as they operate in similar ways. ( Peedo's come from bushes, where as HT come from Kebab shops/colleges/schools u name it...although knowing HT I wouldn't say bushes are out the question...anything to 'get em in' right?)

As for the hypocrisy, Im not talking about nifaaq you nutcase, Im talking about their double standards,
Now they are saying that its OK to build Muslim schools, collect for charity..so why don't you apologise to the sincere dawah carriers who have always been doing this- those whom you ridiculed.

Theres nothing wrong with changing an opinion, but everything is wrong when :

a) you say that you haven't changed your opinion
b) you all change overnight without thinking (the footsoldiers you are)
c) no apology to those whom you slandered

For instance, OBM's followers also changed overnight. From shafii-asharee to ultra hanbali-wahabi !
This attitude is common with all pasrtisan groups, who sometimes hide behind the gown of unity, only to cover their hizbiyyah and aristotle beliefs.

WS

[gag order]

a summary and evaluation of HT

ashari salafi, what is mean by HT version 1 and HT version 2? please give a brief description of both mentioning their similarities and differences. and their stated aims.

and i think its unfair to liken them to 'peedos' by the way, despite their grave errors.

[UmmMusab]

a summary and evaluation of HT

ashari salafi, what is mean by HT version 1 and HT version 2? please give a brief description of both mentioning their similarities and differences. and their stated aims.



yeah please enlighten me too brother..(lol)...and about the "peedos" comment...not very nice thing to say...:eek:

[ibnYaseen]

I was recruited by the HT and worked+studied with the deviant sect. This puts me in a very honorable position of divulging many HT secrets. (For the benefit of easing the hearts of my brothers I should mention I embraced ahlus sunnah wal jama'a upon my exit from the hizb ul shaytaan).

After being fed numerous coup stories and fantasies about how whole squadrons and platoons of various armies gave nusrah to the HT thanks to a trimmed bearded, sunnah-salaah-skipping HT dawah carrier I was seduced in to joining the party upon the notion that my mere talking about Khilafah and handing out peices of paper after jumu'ah salaah every week would bring forth the re-establishment of the Khilafah.

Everybody needs to know that the HT is a group comprised of complete and utter amateurs who's knowledge of Islam emenates from the foundation of rational thought (rather than revelation) and home-made ijtihad alongside direct taqleed to his 20-something university under-graduate mushriff.

You can go to Bradford and meet a HT then you can go to Luton and meet a HT then you can go to London and meet a HT ... now play a simple game of "SPOT THE DIFFERENCE" and find yourself bemused at how this sect has managed to be the first to create human clones: trimmed beard, persistant use of the word "don", careless habit of utterring "subhan Allah" at the weirdest moments, smoking addict, marraige talk obsessed and various other traits are found in almost every HT member and seasoned recruit.

This is a party that does not encourage its members to follow the sunnah but when it comes to trying to re-establish the Khilafah they claim to be the only group following the sunnah in their methodology ---which apparantly now includes participating in a kufr democratic parliament, thanks no doubt to some new ijtihad from party HQ in never-never-land somewhere in palestine--- and it leaves one thinking how is it able to keep its secrets so secret...? well after studying with them i kind of figured out each "secret" was like a carrot dangling off a string infront of a donkey, i.e. these so called secrets and mysteries are methods of seduction to keep alive the interest of the shabaab in the HT and it's activities. tell a lie enough times and eventually it becomes the "truth"... or in HTs case just a well kept secret.

that's HT in a nutshell.

[Salahudin]

I don't judge Islam by the actions of Muslims just like I don't judge HT by the appearance of its shabab.
It might have been more worthy if you actually came up with some arguements instead of the cheap shots.
It reminds me of the Quraish and their cheap shots against Muhammed (saw) and the Sahaba(ra). I am sure the muslims at that time too looked like clones to the Quraish as they all proclomied the Shahada, believed in Muhammed (saw) and were eager to help him and give up their lives for the cause of Islam...despite the hardships...in other words the Quraish also accused Muhamed (saw) of brainwashing their folk!
maybe your brain needs a good wash!!!!

[ibnYaseen]

I don't judge Islam by the actions of Muslims just like I don't judge HT by the appearance of its shabab.

I remember utterring these EXACT PRECISE words when I was with the party when defending my fellow hizbites tendency to dress like the kuffaar adding the mildest "islamic twist" by donning a Craig David beard whilst walking with a ciggy half hanging outta the mouth throwing "W" on the hands yelling "WESTSIIIDE" after a long session of talking about military coups "we've done" with the music of 2Pac gently playing in the background to accompany our "excellent Islamic intellectual" atmosphere.

And now, if you are willing to exit the HT-world-of-reality, allow me to try and share a different perspective on what you've said: to "judge" Islam by the ACTIONS of Muslims would not neccessarily be wrong, what would be wrong is to use the wrong sample of muslims. The only muslims that should be used to "judge" Islam are the Muslims that correctly follow Islam. There is no comparison between ISLAM and HT as the HT claims to be radically Islamic, claiming to following the sunnah and aiming to re-establish the ISLAMIC WAY OF LIFE, so thus by this very claim it is a entity within the scope of ISLAM. The only people that work with the Hizb are those that agree with it's ideas (may Allah swt guide them aameen) and hence these people all bear the responsibility of ensuring the correct actions and apperance and behaviour is publicy displayed as they EACH are a representative of the HT calling to the HT da'wah.

So if HT members and shabab smoke ciggy's and sheesha, listen to music, spend lots of time and money on entertainment, playing cricket, movies, clothes, fashion, skipping sunnah salaah and talking about getting married non-stop it gives the ummah a reflection of what kind of group the HT is as these are the people working for this group and the groups ideas.

It might have been more worthy if you actually came up with some arguements instead of the cheap shots.
It reminds me of the Quraish and their cheap shots against Muhammed (saw) and the Sahaba(ra). I am sure the muslims at that time too looked like clones to the Quraish as they all proclomied the Shahada, believed in Muhammed (saw) and were eager to help him and give up their lives for the cause of Islam...despite the hardships...in other words the Quraish also accused Muhamed (saw) of brainwashing their folk!
maybe your brain needs a good wash!!!!

It is an insult for you to equate the HT to the honourable Sahaba (rah). May Allah swt pardon you for your childish, foolish and thoughtless words.

[Salahudin]

Islam is correct not because what muslims do or don't do but because we can prove 100% the creator exists, the Quran being the speech of the Creator, Allah (swt) and that Muhammed (saw) was a Messenger. Thus Islam is judged based upon the strengh of its ideas not the muslims who follow it irrespective if they are good or bad.

As for the rest of the cheap shots they are not worth rising to because you clearly lack an understanding of what HT is even though you claimed to have studied with the Party (probably with the ex HT lot) which would actually clear up why you don't understand the Party's plan of action, its methodology and concepts.

How can your behavior, your lies and sheer slander and backbiting be considered Islamic? It seems that you have declined and have become someone who doesn't understand the concept of difference of opinion (Iktilaf) on matters like beard, smoking, music etc This is typical of wahabis who have a very shallow understanding of Fiqh, its pre-requisites and rules.

[ibnYaseen]

Islam is correct not because what muslims do or don't do but because we can prove 100% the creator exists, the Quran being the speech of the Creator, Allah (swt) and that Muhammed (saw) was a Messenger. Thus Islam is judged based upon the strengh of its ideas not the muslims who follow it irrespective if they are good or bad.

We have a different interpretation of "judge". When you used this term it was not apparant to me that what you were trying to say is measure the correctness of it.

As for the rest of the cheap shots they are not worth rising to because you clearly lack an understanding of what HT is even though you claimed to have studied with the Party (probably with the ex HT lot) which would actually clear up why you don't understand the Party's plan of action, its methodology and concepts.

How can your behavior, your lies and sheer slander and backbiting be considered Islamic? It seems that you have declined and have become someone who doesn't understand the concept of difference of opinion (Iktilaf) on matters like beard, smoking, music etc This is typical of wahabis who have a very shallow understanding of Fiqh, its pre-requisites and rules.

You are accusing me of telling lies, slandering and backbiting when I have done nothing but state facts. I was with the Hizb doing the hizbi da'wah for almost 2 full years. I attended my H's promptly with eagerness following much preperation. I organised countless events, gave many speeches and talks. Distributed leaflets with zeal. I was a very active member of the HT. May Allah swt pardon me, forgive me aameen. I have lived days and nights in the company of HT members and shabab. Everything I have spoken about is directly from my experience of being an active person of the party.

But I was a part of the "real" HT lol, not the HT wannabe version 2.

And I must educate you on the hypcrotical comment you made about wahhabi's --- you attempted to grill me for trying to "judge HT by the people that work for it" and then you are now judging the honorable "Wahhabi" movement (the movement of Tawheed, removal of biddah and going back to adopting the deen in the purest form) by the followers of the movement. That wasn't a very clever comment.

[Ummatun Wasata]

Islam is correct not because what muslims do or don't do but because we can prove 100% the creator exists, the Quran being the speech of the Creator, Allah (swt) and that Muhammed (saw) was a Messenger. Thus Islam is judged based upon the strengh of its ideas not the muslims who follow it irrespective if they are good or bad.

As for the rest of the cheap shots they are not worth rising to because you clearly lack an understanding of what HT is even though you claimed to have studied with the Party (probably with the ex HT lot) which would actually clear up why you don't understand the Party's plan of action, its methodology and concepts.

How can your behavior, your lies and sheer slander and backbiting be considered Islamic? It seems that you have declined and have become someone who doesn't understand the concept of difference of opinion (Iktilaf) on matters like beard, smoking, music etc This is typical of wahabis who have a very shallow understanding of Fiqh, its pre-requisites and rules.

yeh yeh yeh, everything is Ihktilaaf the beard, Music, Aqeedah and we don't need to discuss these issues they are not important.... But there cannot exist any Ihktilaaf in the method for Khilafah right? And if you say there does exist Ihktilaaf in the method let us discuss this right? Boy you Nakitheen I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.:cry: You go on about coup, but even your attempted coup of trying to take over the leadership of HT is not recognised and you want to do a military coup?:p …'Uzair hua Nabi' 'taking political analysis from the Jinn':rolleyes: go back into hibernation brv. You also go on about knowing your culture a visit to your site shows your unified thought getting corrected by one another and you mans are supposed to be grounded in the Hizbs thought. I don’t take you serious as you come and try and insult so in return I will show sarcasm. You claim to be like the Sahabah and our beloved read the descriptions of these great people. If you love a person you follow them imitate them (and no I am not talking about marrying more than 4 times) I am talking about there appearance etc. But you will say there is nothing in the Ahadith to make the beard to make it Fard or even sunnah as some you mans say it is mubah and therefore justify your tram lines even though you know what the position of the early generations was. But alas anything to fulfill your desires, that’s why some actions are only regarded as ‘its only Sunnah’. You will be running away soon won’t you? Why don’t you finish off with bro An-napalee?:eek:

[gag order]

"Thus Islam is judged based upon the strengh of its ideas not the muslims who follow it irrespective if they are good or bad." (salahuddin)

"to "judge" Islam by the ACTIONS of Muslims would not neccessarily be wrong, what would be wrong is to use the wrong sample of muslims. The only muslims that should be used to "judge" Islam are the Muslims that correctly follow Islam." (abu saif)

each statement within its context is true.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

Islam is correct not because what muslims do or don't do but because we can prove 100% the creator exists, the Quran being the speech of the Creator, Allah (swt) and that Muhammed (saw) was a Messenger. Thus Islam is judged based upon the strengh of its ideas not the muslims who follow it irrespective if they are good or bad.

As for the rest of the cheap shots they are not worth rising to because you clearly lack an understanding of what HT is even though you claimed to have studied with the Party (probably with the ex HT lot) which would actually clear up why you don't understand the Party's plan of action, its methodology and concepts.

How can your behavior, your lies and sheer slander and backbiting be considered Islamic? It seems that you have declined and have become someone who doesn't understand the concept of difference of opinion (Iktilaf) on matters like beard, smoking, music etc This is typical of wahabis who have a very shallow understanding of Fiqh, its pre-requisites and rules.

for the one who makes accusations and then runs away you can talk.

as for your Hizb's juristic prowess, you follow people who are majhul and hide, yet claim them to be the best thing since sliced bread?

sort it out...your makng a mockery of yourself!

You guys couldn't even tell me what you considered ma'loom from 'aqeedah on your own forums and you want to go on about fiqh and it's pre-requsites!

ajeeb!

[Salahudin]

We have a different interpretation of "judge". When you used this term it was not apparant to me that what you were trying to say is measure the correctness of it.



You are accusing me of telling lies, slandering and backbiting when I have done nothing but state facts. I was with the Hizb doing the hizbi da'wah for almost 2 full years. I attended my H's promptly with eagerness following much preperation. I organised countless events, gave many speeches and talks. Distributed leaflets with zeal. I was a very active member of the HT. May Allah swt pardon me, forgive me aameen. I have lived days and nights in the company of HT members and shabab. Everything I have spoken about is directly from my experience of being an active person of the party.

But I was a part of the "real" HT lol, not the HT wannabe version 2.

And I must educate you on the hypcrotical comment you made about wahhabi's --- you attempted to grill me for trying to "judge HT by the people that work for it" and then you are now judging the honorable "Wahhabi" movement (the movement of Tawheed, removal of biddah and going back to adopting the deen in the purest form) by the followers of the movement. That wasn't a very clever comment.

wahabi fiqh is one of the weakest. it is quite superficial since they are not familiar with the idiosyncrasies of the sharia rules thus they take everything literally and blunder over understanding the sharia. just like former wahabi scholars blundered in the past. They talk about biddah but yet do not understand what it means. Their mureed regurgitate kufr, biddah, shirk without concern for th real problems of the ummah and its solutions.

unless you were part of 1997 Redress then you were not a member of HT but a member of the Zallum group.

I know what HT is. I have been with the Party for more than 6 years.

[Abu Nihla]

Simply the cheapest shorts I always get from the Neo-Salafis who think this Deen belongs to them. Well I am HT and not about to abandon it any sooner.

abu_sa1f your abandoning HT simply is something that is usuall. You left but the group is still growing by the day. We also have ex-Salafis, ex-alqaida, ex-Hamas, ex-Taliban, ex-ahl-sunnah, ex-shia etc. Am also ex-wahabi.

About knowledge bro, maybe you was in the wrong area. All my teachers who are all HT are graduates from either from Madina, Azhar, and Sudan. All grow beard, the wives observe Niqab, and we all meet in the masjid during Jamaa prayers and by default the majority of HT in my country are all ex-wahabis.

About POG, Khabar Ahad try another short, it’s a stale issue.

[ibnYaseen]

wahabi fiqh is one of the weakest. it is quite superficial since they are not familiar with the idiosyncrasies of the sharia rules thus they take everything literally and blunder over understanding the sharia. just like former wahabi scholars blundered in the past. They talk about biddah but yet do not understand what it means. Their mureed regurgitate kufr, biddah, shirk without concern for th real problems of the ummah and its solutions.

Typical HT opinions; "The HT is the best at everything and make no mistakes, everybody else is weak and have mistakes mistakes mistakes". Your opinion of the Wahhabi's is as weak as Nabhani's attempt to quit smoking.

Your whole comment of the "wahabis" is generalised but to be expected from a blind follower of a group that isolates its followers from the ummah and tells them what to think about the other proper Muslims.

The HT is not a group that has real concerns for the ummah (for it's members are too busy "culturing" one another whilst talking, talking, talking) and the HT is far from understanding a solution for the problems.

unless you were part of 1997 Redress then you were not a member of HT but a member of the Zallum group.

I know what HT is. I have been with the Party for more than 6 years.

I was with the party when Zallum died, I was a part of the mainstream original HT here in Britain, astaghfiruAllah, and I was aware of the existence of your disobedient, rebellious sect-within-a-sect faction of HT, lol a lot of fun was made out of you guys --- u guys are like MPAC; 2 or 3 upset emotional kids working out of the basement from your parents house (if i recall, perhaps now u have a 2 or 3 more members?)

[ibnYaseen]

Simply the cheapest shorts I always get from the Neo-Salafis who think this Deen belongs to them. Well I am HT and not about to abandon it any sooner.

abu_sa1f your abandoning HT simply is something that is usuall. You left but the group is still growing by the day. We also have ex-Salafis, ex-alqaida, ex-Hamas, ex-Taliban, ex-ahl-sunnah, ex-shia etc. Am also ex-wahabi.

About knowledge bro, maybe you was in the wrong area. All my teachers who are all HT are graduates from either from Madina, Azhar, and Sudan. All grow beard, the wives observe Niqab, and we all meet in the masjid during Jamaa prayers and by default the majority of HT in my country are all ex-wahabis.

About POG, Khabar Ahad try another short, it’s a stale issue.

If you are measuring the correctness of HT by how many people choose to join the party then you are putting confidence in HT from a very feeble claim.

I don't know what country you are from, but your HT clones in the UK are mostly teenage kids and grown men pushing 35 who mostly behave, dress and act like teenage kids.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

wahabi fiqh is one of the weakest. it is quite superficial since they are not familiar with the idiosyncrasies of the sharia rules thus they take everything literally and blunder over understanding the sharia. just like former wahabi scholars blundered in the past. They talk about biddah but yet do not understand what it means. Their mureed regurgitate kufr, biddah, shirk without concern for th real problems of the ummah and its solutions.

unless you were part of 1997 Redress then you were not a member of HT but a member of the Zallum group.

I know what HT is. I have been with the Party for more than 6 years.

Many of us here, try to adhere to the fiqh of the hanabilah, innsha'ALLAH, or to a verified madhab (maliki, shafi'e and hanafi). What is this wahabi fiqh? Where have you analysed it and who are their scholars an books of fiqh?

We already know the fantasy of nabhani(rh) being considered a mujtahid mutlaq, and from this we see how the delluded shabab either think you can become a mujtahid in a year (even 3 months acording to some), and other nonesense is rife amongst these chaps! And we haven't even bgan to discuss how one can achieve this (just need arabic!)

As for regurgitation of words, we find this apparent from those who say:

"you didn't understand the reality"

or

"the reality of the situation"

or

"that preson has been delt with"

or

"there is ikhtilaf over that matter"

etc, etc....it is a trait of many cults....

You say you know HT because you hav been with them for 6 years? So? Abu Muhammad has been with them for nearly 50, but according to you guys he is a blind follower who follows the personality and not the fikr!

Get with the program!

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

Simply the cheapest shorts I always get from the Neo-Salafis who think this Deen belongs to them. Well I am HT and not about to abandon it any sooner.

abu_sa1f your abandoning HT simply is something that is usuall. You left but the group is still growing by the day. We also have ex-Salafis, ex-alqaida, ex-Hamas, ex-Taliban, ex-ahl-sunnah, ex-shia etc. Am also ex-wahabi.

Ajeeb ex-ahl sunnah to become what? Ahl biddah?

About knowledge bro, maybe you was in the wrong area. All my teachers who are all HT are graduates from either from Madina, Azhar, and Sudan. All grow beard, the wives observe Niqab, and we all meet in the masjid during Jamaa prayers and by default the majority of HT in my country are all ex-wahabis.

Ex wahabis? So they went from wahabi'ism to mu'tazila'ism (i'tizal?). and you want us to be happy?

About POG, Khabar Ahad try another short, it’s a stale issue.

As stale as this?:

http://www.hizbuttahrir.org.uk/postnuke/pn/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=222

Was it another abu Nihla seeking clarification upon the issue of 'adhabul qabr on a site which considers him a follower of a (majhul) personality rather than the thought? (i.e. group of zalloum)...and the interesting thing Abu Nihla said here:



Secondly i agree and embrace the call of Hizbu-ttahrir to return to the RULE of the Islamic Sheri'ah, however due to the difference of opinions that i have been exposed to on this issue (of adhab al kabr) i totally disagree with the hizb on its' stand. I.e. I find the evidence of those who take issue of adhab al kabr into aqeeda stronger than that of Hizbu ttahrir. Can i still be regarded as a member of Hizbu-ttahrir with this belief?

So unless you have new information which "enlightened" you..maybe you want to share it? Have you got that evidence showing the 'ikhtilaf' amongst the sahaaba(raa) on this issue?

Cheap shots? (shorts?) more like shot in the foot!

[gag order]

i do not recall anybody claiming to be a 'wahhabi' on this thread but all of a sudden there are accusations of neo salafism and wahhabism! one does not have to be a wahhabi to contradict the views of HT.

imagine if you were to propagate your beliefs in hanafi taliban country, you will remain in prison until that beard grows and you accept punishment of the grave.

interestingly it was claimed that ex-taliban and ex-alqaida are now HT if this is true than i can say with certainty that HT attracts major hypocrites ie the ones that flee from jihad despite bieng trained and equipped for it!

[Intoodeep]

wahabi fiqh is one of the weakest. it is quite superficial since they are not familiar with the idiosyncrasies of the sharia rules thus they take everything literally and blunder over understanding the sharia. just like former wahabi scholars blundered in the past. They talk about biddah but yet do not understand what it means. Their mureed regurgitate kufr, biddah, shirk without concern for th real problems of the ummah and its solutions.

A very popular misconception which shows you havent really understood what salafiyya is all about.

I will give you some pointers.

Notice that your HT leaflets never really contain much evidence from the Quran and Sunnah, usually just a quranic verse or two and thats all.

Hardly ever do they contain sayings of the prophet and the sahabah.

do you realise that there is no islamic depth at all in your groups writings?

[Salahudin]

Ex wahabis? So they went from wahabi'ism to mu'tazila'ism (i'tizal?). and you want us to be happy?

The Party studied in depth the thinking of the mutazilah, jabriyah when it came to al Qada wal Qadr; the scholastics, the philosphers, the influence of the Greek and Hindu philosphers on the muslim scholars and explained in depth in a numebr of publications and leaflets including Shaksiya Volume 2. so your accusation that the Party adopts some kind of Mutazilah thought doesn't make sense.

The Party even exposed the Saudi /Wahabi alliance with the British in their conspiracy against the Khilafah.

So tell me when do you believe Saudi became a state of kufr?

As for your stance on Azab ul Qabr; like I keep saying to you; the saying of a scholar does not constitue proof of its existence. It is clear that Bukhari and Muslim recorded hadith on the subject and this cannot be denied but this does not mean the proof is decisive. Or that 40:46 is decisive since the ayat can more than one meaning and your logic in trying to explain the verses is flawed. Listing names of scholars doesn't help your cause at all.
Do you know the all hadith on the grave and their differences and variations? They are all ahad and have different meanings.
Not one hadith on the subject matter is Mutawatir but I know you slippery wahabis like to join ahad together and contrive the manawi aspect but this misses the point!

[terrorthreat]

This Salahudin character actually ran away from a debate in which he clearly lost and now he is once again trying to defend the punishment of the grave issue:

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=353

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

The Party studied in depth the thinking of the mutazilah, jabriyah when it came to al Qada wal Qadr; the scholastics, the philosphers, the influence of the Greek and Hindu philosphers on the muslim scholars and explained in depth in a numebr of publications and leaflets including Shaksiya Volume 2. so your accusation that the Party adopts some kind of Mutazilah thought doesn't make sense.

The Party even exposed the Saudi /Wahabi alliance with the British in their conspiracy against the Khilafah.

So tell me when do you believe Saudi became a state of kufr?

As for your stance on Azab ul Qabr; like I keep saying to you; the saying of a scholar does not constitue proof of its existence. It is clear that Bukhari and Muslim recorded hadith on the subject and this cannot be denied but this does not mean the proof is decisive. Or that 40:46 is decisive since the ayat can more than one meaning and your logic in trying to explain the verses is flawed. Listing names of scholars doesn't help your cause at all.
Do you know the all hadith on the grave and their differences and variations? They are all ahad and have different meanings.
Not one hadith on the subject matter is Mutawatir but I know you slippery wahabis like to join ahad together and contrive the manawi aspect but this misses the point!

saudi became dar al-kufr ages ago!

HT studied the fikr of the mu'tazilah and they themselves affirmeed man creates his own actions. To say the hizb studied in depth and then pin-point one issue is a joke. i'tizal has many face (as we will se from the rest of your post)

As for 'adhabul qabr, you mention 40:46 yet still can't respond adequently, mutawatir ma'nawi etc all have been responded to but obviously we know when ht shabab can't answer (or don't have anything to cut n paste) the usual answer is "we have delt with this"....

as for the tawatur on the ahadith, they have the consistent meaning that 'adhabul qabr exists.

You have tried to use verse from the Qur'an to deny 'adhabul qabr and the ru'ya's affirmation...just like your fore-fathers from bashr al-mirisee et al

if only you read anything then maybe it would have benefitted you....you mention a list of scholars etc, yet you should look into the context of that list (rebutting your shabab's claims of 'ikhtilaf' and 'variance of meanings' on the verse), yet you have the audacity to post from a majhul, a leaflet and say it is good enough it came from a muslim? ALLAHU Musta'an!

And who claimed a saying of a scholar is evidence? but of course that whole list of scholars contradicts nabhani's view on 40:46 which is the view you should be retorting but even that is beyond you because if you really understood your arguments you would see how it contradicts your basis. Infact if you were consistent you would actually have the decency to state that we can say what we say about 40:46 without question! What is astonishing is that no matter what is posted in response to your weak points you will eventually run away and disapprear....then probably re-appear once you have something to cut n paste.......bye

[asharee_salafi]

So salahudeen please tell me, which scholar differed upon the ayat 40:46 referring to punishment from the grave?

You cannot say something is not decisive based upon reading english translations. Don't give your opinion, give the opinion of any classical scholar

( He will run away from this point too.)

[gag order]

"The Party even exposed the Saudi /Wahabi alliance with the British in their conspiracy against the Khilafah."

based on the memoirs of an anonymous author which you have taken as revelation from the heavens! for a group that prides itself on logic and ration, i find HT to be objective in the least.

notice how the argument against the wahhabis is the same that is propagated by qadianis, barelvis, sufis, and rafidites!

whilst many of us acknowledge that al-saud is (arguably) outside the fold of islam, we do not accredit their kufr to the mission of muhammed ibn abdul wahhab in the same way we do not accredit the evil actions committed by some muslims some of the time to the rasool saw.

[abuzakarya]

You Hizbis here do realise that you are a laughing stock, don't you? You can't even be united amongst yourselves and have split off into many sub-cults so how are you claiming to be able to unify this Ummah? Not one of you has made a substantial point in defence of HT - all you keep saying parrot-fashion is "you're a wahabi" which, by the way, is a kafir-coined phrase. Going back to the original topic, it is intersting that 3 pages on, you are still silent on the issue. If you say entering parliament is a HTB (as opposed to the HTA,C, D, E, F...) "deviancy", how do you expalin Nabhani standing for election in the Jordanian LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY and Ahmad Daour being a member? If You are from HTB in the first place, how do you expalin your u-turn - we all heard you say it millions of times: "Voting is haram, entering parliament is haram..." You lot are confused so how can you guide this Ummah? Allah ta'ala has exposed you with your own words as nothing more than a cult who blindly follows their ignorant leaders.

[Abuz Zubair]

ٍSorry if I've missed anything, but is there any thing concrete that suggests this U-turn from HT?

I still find it hard to believe that they would make a U-turn on such a principle issue.

[ibnYaseen]

ٍSorry if I've missed anything, but is there any thing concrete that suggests this U-turn from HT?

I still find it hard to believe that they would make a U-turn on such a principle issue.

I feel like-wise, the only thing that makes me believe this is likey without concrete proof is observing the changes that have occurred with HT ever since I left.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

So salahudeen please tell me, which scholar differed upon the ayat 40:46 referring to punishment from the grave?

You cannot say something is not decisive based upon reading english translations. Don't give your opinion, give the opinion of any classical scholar

( He will run away from this point too.)

no no, you see there is no point in quoting scholars because we don't folow personalities, and even though the point your making is asking what scholar stated what nabhani said, then you will find it with the mu'tazilah......


And we look at the streangth of the argument not who said it and blah blah blah

and I will respond when I have a cut and paste because I want to ignore the 100+ names given of those scholars from the sahaaba(raa) to now who affirm 40:46 as ithbaat for 'adhabul qabr as my party's position contradicts them all and we say blah blah blah...and blah blah blah and a little more blah blah reality and blah ijtihad, usul al-fiqh....usul of the thick.....blah blah rah!

[Abu Nihla]

abu imaan an-nepalee, Yes, evidence has been furnished to me on the issue of Khabar ahad and I take to the opinion that whomsoever denies khabar ahad can only be a sinner (aasi) and not a kaffir depending on issues relating to the hadih authenticity and nothing more. Also am pleased to say that the one that shed this light to me on the issue is not HT but a Salafi/Wahabi and a masters degree holder on ilm hadeeth from madina.

Secondly I consider the issue of POG, KHABAR AHAD, QADHAA WALL QADR as stale issues as points of discussions since HT has stated their stand on this issues. You can either deny them or embrace them. The choice relies on you.

About an apologetic statement that HT separates from the Ummah, it’s ridiculous for any group to do that. HT views the Ummah as the body that will be governed by the Khalifah, how can they not but associate with all the Ummah. HT with Shia even Ayman Zawahir called indirectly on Hamas to be with them so that they can take on Israel. I ask you, does Hamas consider the Hizbollah Shia as Kuffar? Stop playin to the hands of SAUDI hatred towards the Shia.

Will you not pray qunut for the Shia of Iran if they are attacked by the USA while you consider them Kuffar.

Many a great scholars in Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebnon, Yemen don’t consider the shia as Kuffar. If HT sees it fit to associate with Shia what’s wrong? Hamas does so.

Why did the Saudi donate 1.6 billion dollars to their brother shia in Lebnon?

Grow up and read between the lines.

[Ummatun Wasata]

Simply the cheapest shorts I always get from the Neo-Salafis .

Boy as if we don't get don't get enough of these Hizbites propagating their trash now we have to listen to where they get their underwear from :eek:

Don't you come out with that adoption garbage son, let me give you a simple example if a member held the opinion that for his prayer in stead of the normal method of prayer he was now going to start to break dance, this would not be considered be a valid method of prayer in the Hizbs eyes, correct? (Even though I remember one Arab HT brother who stood next to me in prayer was lifting his heals off the ground and going up and down like a pogo stick).
The point I am making is that any opinion that Hizb will allow the members to hold is what the Hizb views as valid. Similarly in relation to Aqeedah in opinion the Hizbs allows the members to hold is views as a valid opinion.

Now how do they justify
a) Having Tasdeeq in issues such as POG, Decent of Isa ibni Maryam, Dajjal
b) And total rejection of beliefs such as above?

[Abu Nihla]

Jund Allah, Nothing new, just tell me amongst the classical scholars who considered the one who denies the POG as a Kaffir period? The cheapest short you can give is a character assassination of a HT member you put under a microscope. By the way, we have Jihadi Wonnabis, Salafis, Wahabis that I know off that have the worst adaab ever. The prayer is also problematic as you described that of a HT member. So grow up man, talk issues.

In my place, most of HT members infact are considered to be Wahabis, they are good in Fiqh ul-ibadaat, uloom al hadeeth, tafseer and all the mushrifs have good understanding of the qur’aan. So what do you say?

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

Jund Allah, Nothing new, just tell me amongst the classical scholars who considered the one who denies the POG as a Kaffir period?


abu ya'la al-hanbali in al-i'tiqaad
ibn battah in sharus-sunnah/sharh al-ibanah
an-nasafi in tabrisat al-adillah
al-bagdadi in farq bayn al-firaq (the last 2 claim ijmaa' on this issue!).............you want more?

check qawaa'id al-aqaa'id of al-Ghazali and he say your imaan not accepted
also check sharh kitab fiqh al-akbar by mullah ali al-qari

want some more?

also Jund mentioned other points of i'tiqaad



In my place, most of HT members infact are considered to be Wahabis, they are good in Fiqh ul-ibadaat, uloom al hadeeth, tafseer and all the mushrifs have good understanding of the qur’aan. So what do you say?

wake up

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

abu imaan an-nepalee, Yes, evidence has been furnished to me on the issue of Khabar ahad and I take to the opinion that whomsoever denies khabar ahad can only be a sinner (aasi) and not a kaffir depending on issues relating to the hadih authenticity and nothing more. Also am pleased to say that the one that shed this light to me on the issue is not HT but a Salafi/Wahabi and a masters degree holder on ilm hadeeth from madina.

Why are you mentioning khabar al-Ahaad? But alhamdulillah you went to a ‘salafi/wahabi’ (not a neo-salafi then?) to seek the truth because if you relied upon the disaterous attempts by the shabab to portray the positions of the scholars on this issue then you would have been reading distortion after distortion. Maybe ask Abuz-Zubair for his HT and khabar al-Ahaad article which showed some exaples of distortion in their articles, as we can also find in the more recent books of those like al-shuwayki who had the audacity to quote people like ibn hajar and Imaam ahmad, as-suyuti, as-sarkhasi and others as if they hold the same position on khabar al-ahaad!

Secondly I consider the issue of POG, KHABAR AHAD, QADHAA WALL QADR as stale issues as points of discussions since HT has stated their stand on this issues. You can either deny them or embrace them. The choice relies on you.

The point is you considered them stale enough to start a thread on ‘adhabul qabr on the HT 2 website asking for clarification on this issue and yet when others mention it is stale? Ajeeb!

About an apologetic statement that HT separates from the Ummah, it’s ridiculous for any group to do that. HT views the Ummah as the body that will be governed by the Khalifah, how can they not but associate with all the Ummah. HT with Shia even Ayman Zawahir called indirectly on Hamas to be with them so that they can take on Israel. I ask you, does Hamas consider the Hizbollah Shia as Kuffar? Stop playin to the hands of SAUDI hatred towards the Shia.

Many great Ulemah of today like shaykh Ibn Jibreen(HA) have mentioned that the sunni muslims should not support these rawafidah, and how can anyone support these rawafidah?

http://www.ibn-jebreen.com/controller?action=FatwaView&fid=4174



The Ruling On Assisting Hizbullah

(answered by Shaykh 'Abdullah bin Jibrin - may Allah preserve him)

Question:

Many people in recent times have emerged, calling for the assistance of the Lebanese Hizbullah. This is a Rafidi group that is allied with Iran. Our question is: is it permissible to assist Hizbullah? Is it allowed to place oneself under their leadership? Is it allowed to supplicate for them with victory and establishment? And what is your advice to those who are deceived in regards to them from Ahl as-Sunnah?

Answer:

It is not allowed to assist this Rafidi group, and it is not allowed to place oneself under their leadership, and it is not allowed to supplicate for them with victory and establishment, and our advice to Ahl as-Sunnah is to disassociate themselves from them, to expose those who assist them, and to expose their enmity to Islam and the Muslims, and their danger - both old and new - to Ahl as-Sunnah. The Rafidi constantly leans toward enmity for Ahl as-Sunnah, and they try - as much as possible - to expose their faults, attack them, and plot against them. And if the situation is like this, then whoever allies themselves with them has the same ruling as them, due to the Saying of Allah - the Exalted: {"...and whoever of you takes them as allies, then he is one of them..."} [al-Ma'idah; 51]"



So what if ayman al-zawahiri has said for Hamas to be with Hizbullah, does it mean he is correct? Strategically he may have a point, however from it’s root basis groups such as these who have mainly nationalistic tendencies as well as being pawns in a proxy war between Iran and the U.S. (which has now in my opinion only made the international case against Iraan carrying out their Enrichment of Uranium programme stronger which shows political nievity) will not achieve anything. Hizbullah fighting the Isrealis does not remove from them the filth of them being rafidites.

Also the ulemah have continuously mentioned, how if forbidding the munkar causes a greater munkar then don’t do it! Even these rafidites who many political commentators are saying are doing Iraan’s dirty work, didn’t think Isreal would react the way it did1 And while many hundreds of innocent people suffer for the sake of the head of the rafidah in Iraan and the Idol worshipper in Syria, the Gaza strip is facing a similar bombardment which is considered as a ‘testing’ ground for the military strategy the Isrealis will use in south Lebanon.

So don’t talk about ‘solidarity’ here! We don’t abhore the shi’ah just because the tyrants of Saudi do! This is in itself politial and doctrinal nievity!

Will you not pray qunut for the Shia of Iran if they are attacked by the USA while you consider them Kuffar.

We should pray for all muslims, and that is the case for all lands! I don’t pray for shi’ah just because they are shi’ah! Also I consider those who consider Abu Bakr a kafir to be a kafir! I will not cry for those shi’ah who have attacked the sunni minorities in Iraan and now we see them doing the same with the sunnis of Iraaq, massacring them! You can’t call a whole nation kafir, rather whoever is one, is and whoever isn’t then they ain’t!

Many a great scholars in Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebnon, Yemen don’t consider the shia as Kuffar. If HT sees it fit to associate with Shia what’s wrong? Hamas does so.



HT don’t just associate, they do the following:


Indeed Hizb ut-Tahrir, the political party established upon islam, and islam alone, it's membership is open for every muslim, whether he is Sunni or shia as long as he believes in the islamic aqeeda."

What a deluded statement devoid of the basic knowledge of Islamic creedal differences between the Ahl Sunnah and the Ahl Bida’ah!

The reference for this is:

'A call from Hizb ut-Tahrir. To the muslims in general, and specifically to the muslims of Iraq and Lebanon' distributed in arabic in Lebanon and Iraaq and the general arab lands, published 9th rabee al-awaal 1424ah corresponding to 10/05/03. This is an official leaflet available here: http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/arabic/nashrat/nashrat.htm

And so what if Hamas decides to do this? Do we follow Qur’an and sunnah or these nationalistic groups?


Why did the Saudi donate 1.6 billion dollars to their brother shia in Lebnon?

Hey, they let shi’ah rafidah come to madina and spit upon the graves of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar(raa) and so I guess they got some kind of connection?…what point are you making? Oh Look what Saudi did, hey lets all love the rafidah now!

Grow up and read between the lines.

Good advice I hope you really listen to it!

[Abu Nihla]

Still the cheapest shorts ever, the opinion of the scholars on issues of difference does not constitute Hujjah in Islam. Islam does not belong to your scholars especially if you tend to mention or rely only on scholars that agree to your opinions.

About Hamas and Hizbollah being Nationalistic groups, thank you, why not concentrate then on them instead of attacking HT that has a universal appearance?

The Shi’a are killing the Sunni in Iraq, so are the Sunni Killing the Shi’a. In-fact they say and according to a tape that I myself listened to it’s Abu Mus’ab al Zarqawi rahimahullah who started it (killing the Shi’a) although he was advised against such by Ayman Zawahir.

If you don’t pray for Shi’a just because they are Shi’a then tell us why you pray to them?

All you wrote about POG, KHABAR AHAD e.t.c. are not new to me. I have read what Abu Zubeir wrote in 2004 I believe still doesn’t stand up for me.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

Still the cheapest shorts ever, the opinion of the scholars on issues of difference does not constitute Hujjah in Islam. Islam does not belong to your scholars especially if you tend to mention or rely only on scholars that agree to your opinions.


first he asks for names of scholars then he disregards them! ALLAHU Musta'an!

what scholars would you like to refer to?

zamakhshari? i'm sorry he say's 'adhabul qabr is qati'e

qadi ibn abdul-jabbar al-mu'tazili? oh he says the same thing....darn it!

oh hold up, how about bishr al-mirisee, the apostate who got executed for his i'tizaal?...yes


or are you gonna come back with as-sarkhasi? and ibn rushd?...yes that ibn rushd who nabhani called kafir!..

Do you even know who the scholars such as ibn battah(rh) and al-Qadhi(rh) are?

and an-nasafi(rh) is a major maturidi codifier and al-bagdadi(rh) another major codifier for the ash'ari!

if you were intersted you would seek to know what they stated and why!

About Hamas and Hizbollah being Nationalistic groups, thank you, why not concentrate then on them instead of attacking HT that has a universal appearance?

what you on about?

The Shi’a are killing the Sunni in Iraq, so are the Sunni Killing the Shi’a. In-fact they say and according to a tape that I myself listened to it’s Abu Mus’ab al Zarqawi rahimahullah who started it (killing the Shi’a) although he was advised against such by Ayman Zawahir.

and your point is?

If you don’t pray for Shi’a just because they are Shi’a then tell us why you pray to them?

i don't pray to them! Astagfirullah!

All you wrote about POG, KHABAR AHAD e.t.c. are not new to me. I have read what Abu Zubeir wrote in 2004 I believe still doesn’t stand up for me.

are we surprised when in this instance you ask for scholars names and then dismiss them! when you get them? You asked because you thought there were no names just like all the other clones of ht out there who thought the same thing and when they realised the 'research' of the top shabab was not all it was worth they had to bring another reconcilement to settle the ibtilah in their hearts because the disease of hizbiyyah overwhelmed them...as usual...

how many could respond to brother abuz-zubairs points? rather all i heard from these big shot members was 'i spoke to abuz-zubair he doesn't know anything about usul al-fiqh blah blah blah'

we had some responses by brother majid nawaz who came on that old thread before his arrest as salafi and all he did was cut and paste and say we should use our mind and not do taqleed of scholars quotes...

and we have a documents called khabar al-ahaad passed around by the shabab which in itself is a disgrace!

and then the book in arabic by al-shuwayki which as i mentuioned before make more amazing claims..

and of course you will always dismiss everything which is given to you like your fellow htites just incase you become even slightly convinced of something in opposition to Hizbut-TAzilah


Anything to protect the Party line and the positions of the nabhaniyoon1

a'udhu billah min dhalik! wa ALLAHU Musta'an!

[Ummatun Wasata]

Jund Allah, Nothing new, just tell me amongst the classical scholars who considered the one who denies the POG as a Kaffir period? The cheapest short you can give is a character assassination of a HT member you put under a microscope. By the way, we have Jihadi Wonnabis, Salafis, Wahabis that I know off that have the worst adaab ever. The prayer is also problematic as you described that of a HT member. So grow up man, talk issues.

In my place, most of HT members infact are considered to be Wahabis, they are good in Fiqh ul-ibadaat, uloom al hadeeth, tafseer and all the mushrifs have good understanding of the qur’aan. So what do you say?

What is with you and 'shorts' I see the benefits of wearing them but 'stop man'. The word you are looking for is 'Shots' not 'shorts'.

Thanks to Brother Abu Iman he saved me the trouble of posting the references.

Abu Nihla no offence but I don't take you seriously hence why I am taking the rip. I personally think most Hizbi are blind, they say not to follow personalities but have fallen into the very same trap themselves of revering what ever there founder/Amir says.

Brother lets not even start to discuss adaab and HT 'PLEASE' otherwise the admin on this site are gonna need more storage space. You think HT mans with their trousers stuck so far up their crack and batty bwoy hair styles and George Michael, Craig David beards and the most proud of people, Attention seekers have adaab. Get real blud.

You also seem to have Sufi characteristics as you seem to think you have knowledge of the unseen. You think you know me but you could not be so far off.

About the HT members thing. They can't be all that if joined HT as they just as confused as the rest.

Brother when you decide to be sincere to find out the truth and not just sincere to HT maybe I’ll change my tone. Until then keep us updated if you find any more bargains on underwear.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

What is with you and 'shorts' I see the benefits of wearing them but 'stop man'. The word you are looking for is 'Shots' not 'shorts'.

Thanks to Brother Abu Iman he saved me the trouble of posting the references.

Abu Nihla no offence but I don't take you seriously hence why I am taking the rip. I personally think most Hizbi are blind, they say not to follow personalities but have fallen into the very same trap themselves of revering what ever there founder/Amir says.

Brother lets not even start to discuss adaab and HT 'PLEASE' otherwise the admin on this site are gonna need more storage space. You think HT mans with their trousers stuck so far up their crack and batty bwoy hair styles and George Michael, Craig David beards and the most proud of people, Attention seekers have adaab. Get real blud.

You also seem to have Sufi characteristics as you seem to think you have knowledge of the unseen. You think you know me but you could not be so far off.

About the HT members thing. They can't be all that if joined HT as they just as confused as the rest.

Brother when you decide to be sincere to find out the truth and not just sincere to HT maybe I’ll change my tone. Until then keep us updated if you find any more bargains on underwear.

rite on bro!!

[Abu Nihla]

Jund-ullah, Thanks for the spelling correction, proves nothing though since English if my fourth language. You say, Brother lets not even start to discuss adaab and HT 'PLEASE' otherwise the admin on this site are gonna need more storage space. You think HT mans with their trousers stuck so far up their *[Content removed]* and batty bwoy hair styles and George Michael, Craig David beards and the most proud of people, Attention seekers have adaab. Get real blud.’

If you wonna be cool as them feel pleased to do so. Is it haram for someone wearing even dreadlocks to call to Islam? Or is it Haram for let’s say a prostitute to call people to Islam. Please separate the sin she is in and calling to Islam.

Enjoying the good and forbidding the evil is wajib even if a man is not praying or wearing sagging jeans trousers TUPAC style or wearing or even shaving Keith Sweat style. So what do you got?

You think we HT are jokers… let me tell you. You look like jokers yourself. About HT and Adaab, try me…will let you know the truth if you never tasted the truth ever yet. We go 50 – 50.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

Jund-ullah, Thanks for the spelling correction, proves nothing though since English if my fourth language. You say, Brother lets not even start to discuss adaab and HT 'PLEASE' otherwise the admin on this site are gonna need more storage space. You think HT mans with their trousers stuck so far up their *[Content removed]* and batty bwoy hair styles and George Michael, Craig David beards and the most proud of people, Attention seekers have adaab. Get real blud.’

If you wonna be cool as them feel pleased to do so. Is it haram for someone wearing even dreadlocks to call to Islam? Or is it Haram for let’s say a prostitute to call people to Islam. Please separate the sin she is in and calling to Islam.

Enjoying the good and forbidding the evil is wajib even if a man is not praying or wearing sagging jeans trousers TUPAC style or wearing or even shaving Keith Sweat style. So what do you got?

You think we HT are jokers… let me tell you. You look like jokers yourself. About HT and Adaab, try me…will let you know the truth if you never tasted the truth ever yet. We go 50 – 50.

Yes, are these characteristic acceptable when they are supposed to be 'cultured' the way Rasul(saw) cultured the sahaaba(raa) wa ALLAHU Musta'an!

lol keith sweat!

[Abu Nihla]

Go read your deen correct, inviting to Islam is wajib to every Muslim even if you are a sinner period. The having of good adaab thing is what we call qualities of a good da'i and HT has a foundation principle of enjoining the good and forbidding the Munkar.

So you say it's Haram for an aasi to enjoin good and forbid Munkar what's your evidence?

[Ummatun Wasata]

Brother Abu Iman, I can't believe you falling for his tactics. Have you seen how from mentioning adaab he is shifting else where like a slippery snake. He was the one dissing me for not having correct Adaab so I highlighted about his spars and him drag it else where. Abu Nihla nice try been there done that, try another.

'Go read your deen'? As long as its not Nitham al Islam, Takkutal or Shaksiyah. Let me use a analogy An-Nabhani used in relation to 'let the dogs bark on the platform' so you carry on :wink:

[gag order]

once again it appears the stance of HT is indefensible in the face of the criticism levelled against it on this forum, rather than call it 'cheap shots' how about running away while theres still a chance?

so far, every point you raised we have seen a better and stronger counterpoint in its place, it may not have occured to you but a poor case you have made in your defence of HT!

with regard to the sunni shia issues in iraq the HT sentiments are quite revealing and is a good indication of their general and quite prejudiced perception of the 'wahabis'

"The Shi’a are killing the Sunni in Iraq, so are the Sunni Killing the Shi’a. In-fact they say and according to a tape that I myself listened to it’s Abu Mus’ab al Zarqawi rahimahullah who started it (killing the Shi’a) although he was advised against such by Ayman Zawahir."

in a nutshell zarqawi started it becos thats what wahabis do? but in reality the killing of shias which is over reported, it is a reaction to the ongoing under reported genocide of sunnis, perpatrated by government sanctioned shia-only death squads and the all new iraqi army made up of entirely shias of the badr brigade extraction.

this sunni shia conflict is not equal despite HT making it appear so. the shia are US backed aggressors, the sunnis are merely retaliators. its a shame that a political group such as HT can be so naive and out of touch as to the reality of politics in this region!

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

once again it appears the stance of HT is indefensible in the face of the criticism levelled against it on this forum, rather than call it 'cheap shots' how about running away while theres still a chance?

so far, every point you raised we have seen a better and stronger counterpoint in its place, it may not have occured to you but a poor case you have made in your defence of HT!

with regard to the sunni shia issues in iraq the HT sentiments are quite revealing and is a good indication of their general and quite prejudiced perception of the 'wahabis'

"The Shi’a are killing the Sunni in Iraq, so are the Sunni Killing the Shi’a. In-fact they say and according to a tape that I myself listened to it’s Abu Mus’ab al Zarqawi rahimahullah who started it (killing the Shi’a) although he was advised against such by Ayman Zawahir."

in a nutshell zarqawi started it becos thats what wahabis do? but in reality the killing of shias which is over reported, it is a reaction to the ongoing under reported genocide of sunnis, perpatrated by government sanctioned shia-only death squads and the all new iraqi army made up of entirely shias of the badr brigade extraction.

this sunni shia conflict is not equal despite HT making it appear so. the shia are US backed aggressors, the sunnis are merely retaliators. its a shame that a political group such as HT can be so naive and out of touch as to the reality of politics in this region!


maasha'ALLAH...in a nutshell

[Abu Abbas]

[QUOTE=Abu Nihla]Jund-ullah, Thanks for the spelling correction, proves nothing though since English if my fourth language.

Just for curiosity, which are your first three languages brother?

Salam.