The Methodology of Hizb ut-Tahrir to "re-"establish khilafah

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

As-sallamu 'alaikum

I would like for the shabab to come and discuss this topic with me, as they like to discuss it, I would mlike to know how their method is the method of Rasul(saw) (based upon ijtihad of course! :))

So lets discuss:

1-Whose ijtihad does the Party follow and information on that person

2-The Party references where the ijtihad is with it's evidences

3-The Method:

a-1st stage: Formation of a group/Culturing, Where is this in the Sunnah, and the detalied evidences

b-The 2nd stage: The interaction stage, and how the Rasul(saw) engaged in this action specifically for estabishing the state.

c-The 3rd stage seeking nussrah/Authority. The evidences that Rasul(saw) did this to establish a state.

Now obviously, some things are obvious (like who they attribute the 'ijtihad' to) but I just put it here for reference's sake.

Also I don't really see a problem with the evidences of nussrah but today's application.

Also in addition I would like to discuss:

4-The method to appoint a khalifah now according to Hizb ut-Tahrir and the evidences.


JazakALLAHU Khairan

wasalamu 'alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

[Abu Nihla]

This issue has already been discussed here before i think by akh Abu Zubeir in 2004 or 2005. You can search for that thread. The point is that you have the choice either to agree or disagree. HT adopts to what it believes is the correct methodology based on sound understanding and that what it takes upon is Islamic and can be verified from Islamic sources.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

This issue has already been discussed here before i think by akh Abu Zubeir in 2004 or 2005. You can search for that thread. The point is that you have the choice either to agree or disagree. HT adopts to what it believes is the correct methodology based on sound understanding and that what it takes upon is Islamic and can be verified from Islamic sources.


= i don't want to discuss it.

Ok bro no problem. jazakALLAHU Khairan

HT adopts to what it believes is the correct methodology based on sound understanding and that what it takes upon is Islamic and can be verified from Islamic sources.

= slogan

[Abu Hafsa]

Salaam Alaykum, has anyone been through the following book in arabic? Seems to be on Manhaj for establishing Khilafah and Refutation of HT ideas

الطريق إلى استئناف حياة إسلامية وقيام خلافة راشدة على ضوء الكتاب والسُّنَّة

http://www.abubaseer.bizland.com/books/read/b4a.doc


يتضمن بيان الطريق الشرعي الذي يجب على الأمة أن تسلكه وتتبناه وهي في مسعاها الجاد من أجل استئناف حياة إسلامية وقيام خلافة راشدة في واقع الحياة .. إن أرادت لنفسها ـ بصدق ـ النهوض من كبوتها التي طالت، أو أرادت أن تنفض غبار الذل والهوان والضياع عن نفسها؛ والذي أصابها بسبب بعدها وانحرافها عن المنهج الحق الذي شرعه الله تعالى لعباده …
وفيه كذلك الرد على الشبهات والعقبات التي ينثرها ويزرعها حزب التحرير ـ وغيره من أهل الأهواء ـ بين الناس التي تصدهم عن اختيار هذا الطريق الشرعي الصحيح …
والله تعالى من وراء القصد .. وهو الهادي إلى سواء السبيل

ـ إلى هؤلاء الذين ضلُّوا الطريقَ، وتاهت بهم الدروب .. ثم يحسبون أنفسَهم على شيء ..!!

ـ إلى هؤلاء الذين ضيعوا الطاقات والأوقات ـ في طُرقٍ ملتوية خاطئة ـ من غير طائلٍ أو فائدة ..!!

ـ إلى هؤلاء الذين يُفسدون ولا يُصلحون .. ثم يحسبون أنَّهم يُحسِنون صُنعاً، أو أنَّهم على ثغرةٍ من ثغُورِ الإسلام ..!!

ـ إلى شباب حزب التحرير المُضَلَّل، الذين ينشدون الحقَّ بعيداً عن التعصب للحزب، وأرباب الحزب ..!!

ـ إلى طلاّب الحقِّ والدليل ـ أيَّاً كان انتماؤهم ـ بعيداً عن التعصب للأهواء والرجال والأحزاب ..!

إلى هؤلاء جميعاً أهدي هذا الكتاب، راجياً أن يكون لهم سبب هدايةٍ ورشاد .. والله تعالى يهدي من يشاء .

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

I have the hard copy of this. JazakALLAHU Khairan

However it would be interesting to have a dialougue with the shabab

[Intoodeep]

is there an english translation of this?

Salaam Alaykum, has anyone been through the following book in arabic? Seems to be on Manhaj for establishing Khilafah and Refutation of HT ideas

الطريق إلى استئناف حياة إسلامية وقيام خلافة راشدة على ضوء الكتاب والسُّنَّة

http://www.abubaseer.bizland.com/books/read/b4a.doc



يتضمن بيان الطريق الشرعي الذي يجب على الأمة أن تسلكه وتتبناه وهي في مسعاها الجاد من أجل استئناف حياة إسلامية وقيام خلافة راشدة في واقع الحياة .. إن أرادت لنفسها ـ بصدق ـ النهوض من كبوتها التي طالت، أو أرادت أن تنفض غبار الذل والهوان والضياع عن نفسها؛ والذي أصابها بسبب بعدها وانحرافها عن المنهج الحق الذي شرعه الله تعالى لعباده …
وفيه كذلك الرد على الشبهات والعقبات التي ينثرها ويزرعها حزب التحرير ـ وغيره من أهل الأهواء ـ بين الناس التي تصدهم عن اختيار هذا الطريق الشرعي الصحيح …
والله تعالى من وراء القصد .. وهو الهادي إلى سواء السبيل

ـ إلى هؤلاء الذين ضلُّوا الطريقَ، وتاهت بهم الدروب .. ثم يحسبون أنفسَهم على شيء ..!!

ـ إلى هؤلاء الذين ضيعوا الطاقات والأوقات ـ في طُرقٍ ملتوية خاطئة ـ من غير طائلٍ أو فائدة ..!!

ـ إلى هؤلاء الذين يُفسدون ولا يُصلحون .. ثم يحسبون أنَّهم يُحسِنون صُنعاً، أو أنَّهم على ثغرةٍ من ثغُورِ الإسلام ..!!

ـ إلى شباب حزب التحرير المُضَلَّل، الذين ينشدون الحقَّ بعيداً عن التعصب للحزب، وأرباب الحزب ..!!

ـ إلى طلاّب الحقِّ والدليل ـ أيَّاً كان انتماؤهم ـ بعيداً عن التعصب للأهواء والرجال والأحزاب ..!

إلى هؤلاء جميعاً أهدي هذا الكتاب، راجياً أن يكون لهم سبب هدايةٍ ورشاد .. والله تعالى يهدي من يشاء

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

is there an english translation of this?

not that I know of, but i think abuz-zubair did a translation of one of his talks before on the subject?

[Abou Ubaydah]

Assalamu3alaikum wrwb

Would like the comments of those who oppose the methodology of Ht on this article: http://www.risala.org/content/view/94/29/

BarakAllahu Feekum

[Abuz Zubair]

This is the same talk he did at Kingston.

It was very long, in fact, too long. I was gasping for air while my brains went dead translating for 2 hrs something non-stop.

It was a good talk, but it was all geared towards one issue... jihad, and I didn't completely agree with it. I believe our problems today are very complex, that need complex solution.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

This is the same talk he did at Kingston.

It was very long, in fact, too long. I was gasping for air while my brains went dead translating for 2 hrs something non-stop.

It was a good talk, but it was all geared towards one issue... jihad, and I didn't completely agree with it. I believe our problems today are very complex, that need complex solution.


Hey bro when you did that translation, did you know the shabab tried to get hold of the tape and when we listened to it people were laughing at how the ht-rapper from south london (won't say his name) was "having a go" at abu baseer!

I think it was for his comment on Uzbeckistan and how if people claim to have 50'000 people as members why don't they fight? or something like that?

ALLAHU Musta'an!

[Abu Bilal]

As salamu 'alaikum

Reading HT's texts (I live in Spain and they are just a group of friends here) one have the impression they are like a trotskist mouvement, because they want first to indoctrinate the masses and then take the power indoctrinating the soldiers, a kind of peasant-student-worker-soldier alliance.

I think in their method is a basic mistake: to form a community. The Prophet, sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam, formed a community in Madina based in the real brotherhood, the brotherhood in Allah. To build a community is not to build a party. They reject the excessive love for certain persons and leaders, and this is good, but they replace it by the centrality of the Party in their discourse. And we don't know nothing about the people who is at the top of the party, the people who really are commanding the shabab.

And a fatwa, or a ijtihad, it must be signed by someone, in the way the ulama did in all of times.

Another questin is they say they are only Muslims and don't want to divide the Ummah into sects, but the reality is the misguided sects exist, like the Shiah or the Sufi, the modernists or the fake salafis. They have to clarify what is the position of Ahl us-Sunnah in all the controversies. One cannot forget this important point. For me it is essential.

I think that HT is not completely correct neither mistaken; it commit errors because they are not Prophets, but they are in the way of Allah.

Sorry for my English but English is not my mother tongue.

Abu Bilal

Wa s-salam

[jinnzaman]

I don't see the point of this discussion.

The questions presented are not issues of daleel but of strategy. We live in entirely different circumstances than the Prophet (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) did. Back in the day, it would take months for armies to aggregate and attack their opponents, today means of communication and transportation are completely different.

In my opinion, the only practical way a Khalifah could be established would be by establishing a massive people's army that is willing to engage in prolonged guerilla warfare with any opponents of the Khalifah.

I dont see that happening any time soon.

A modern example of how to establish the Khalifah can be seen in the biography of Shaykh Uthman Dan Fodio's whose establishment of the Khalifah seemed like it copied the Seerah of the Prophet (sallahu alayhi wa sallam).

[Abu Faaris As-Sumalee]

I think it was for his comment on Uzbeckistan and how if people claim to have 50'000 people as members why don't they fight? or something like that?


LOL, :D i always liked abu baseer. Common sense guy. I mean to have the thoughts he has and to live in mi5 head quarters without getting arrested or getting anyone else arrested. That deserves respect.

anyone have the audio.

.....oh and these rap things, :D , anything is da'wa these days.

[supermalt]

10 THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT HIZB UT-TAHRIR (HT)
HOW THEY DIFFER WITH AHL AS-SUNNAH WA’L JAMA’AH

1. As long as you believe in Khilafah, you can have a deviant Aqeedah (The Muslim Creed or Beliefs) and still join HT even if you are a Jafari Shi'i who insults the Sahabah (1).
2. HT asked the kafir Ayatullah Khomeini to be Khalifah of all the Muslims (2).
3. HT deny actions are part of Iman (3) and claim Iman cannot increase or decrease (4).
4. HT believe man creates his own actions not Allah subhaanahu wa ta'ala as they have stated in their book Shaksiyyah Islamiyyah Volume 1 (5).
5. HT say it is permissible to believe in, doubt in or REJECT articles of Aqeedah such as the fact that Adam alayhis salam was a prophet, Punishment of the Grave, the coming of Dajjal, Mahdi and the return of Isa (Jesus) alayhis salam as well as the vision of Allah Ta'ala on Yaum al-Qiyamah, the Sirat, ash-Shifa'ah, al-Hawd (6).
6. HT say that to call the Qur’an created is bid’ah (religious innovation) and not Kufr (apostasy) (7).
7. HT deny the Karamaat (miracles) of the Awliyah (the pious) (8).
8. HT say Mu'awiyah radhiallahu anhu was NOT a Companion of Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wa sallam (9).
9. HT allude to being the “Saved Sect” (prophesied in the ahadith ) in their book “The Da’wah Carrier” yet they have split up into many rival factions.
10. According to the former Emir of HT in America, two students of HT in New York, USA, became ATHEISTS. Most members of HT don’t even know this (10).
Produced by the Union of Former Hizb ut-Tahrir Members and Students (UFHTMS) on 19th August 2004. Visit us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFHTMS/
E-mail UFHTMS-owner@yahoogroups.com for more information.



NOTES

(1) “The Shia divide the companions into three factions: first, are those who believed in Allah… The second group, are those who were Muslims but were not sincere in their acts… The third group, are those who became apostate after the death of Prophet… These are the hypocrites, like Abu Sufyan, his son Muawiya…” (A Shi'ite View of the Companions.)
(http://al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter4/2.html; Shi’i website accessed 19/8/04)

(2) In his book 'The Islaamic Government', Khomeini says: "Verily, the Imaam has a praised station, a supreme rank and universal sovereignty to which authority and command submit all the atoms of this universe. And of the imperatives of our religion is that our Imaams occupy a praised station which is accessible by neither a close angel nor a sent prophet ... And in accordance with the narrations and traditions that are in our possession, the greatest Messenger and the Imaams, peace be on them, were light before the existence of this world, then Allaah made them surround His Throne. It has been related to them that they have states with Allaah which are encompassed by neither a close angel nor a sent prophet" [pp. 52, Cairo, 1979 10]
(http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/aqeedah/0042.htm#3;accessed 13/8/04)

(3) According to the majority of scholars, deeds are a part of faith. In their support is the hadith, "Faith is seventy and some branches, the highest of which is saying there is no God but Allah and the lowest of which is removing something harmful from the road." [Narrated by Muslim, Abu Dawud and Nasa'i]
(http://webpages.marshall.edu/~laher1/iman2.html)

(4) “The believers are only those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a fear in their hearts and when His Verses (this Qur'an) are recited unto them, they (i.e. the Verses) increase their Iman; and they put their trust in their Lord (Alone). (al-Anfaal:2)

(5) But Allah SWT says, “We have created everything by measure (bi-qadar).” (Al-Qamar: 49)” and “Lo! This is an Admonishment, that whosoever will may choose a way unto his Lord. Yet ye will not, unless Allah willeth. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.” (Al-Insan: 29-30)

(6) The founder of Hizb-ut-Tahreer, Taqiyy-ud-Deen an-Nabahaani, said, "Indeed from them (the aahaad ahaadeeth) are those which require an action so it is acted upon. So from Abu Hurayrah who said: The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam) said: 'When any of you finishes the last tashahhud, he should seek refuge in Allah from four things: from the Punishment of the Hellfire, from the Punishment of the Grave, from the trials of life and death, and from the evil trials of the Dajjaal.' And from 'Aa'ishah: from the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam), that he used to make supplication in the Prayer saying: 'O Allah! I seek refuge in You from the Punishment of the Grave, I seek refuge in You from the trials of the Maseeh ad-Dajjaal, I seek refuge in You from the trials of life and death. O Allah! I seek refuge in You from debt and sin.' So these two ahaadeeth are aahaad narrations, and they contain the requirement of an action, i.e. to carry out this supplication after finishing the tashahhud. So it is recommended to make this supplication after finishing the tashahhud, and it is permissible to make tasdeeq (attest) of what is contained in them. However, what is haraam (prohibited) is to hold it with certainty - meaning: to have it as part of ones 'aqeedah - as long as it has only been reported in the aahaad hadeeth, a dhannee (non-mutawaatir) proof. However, if it occurs in mutawaatir form, then it is obligatory to make it part of ones 'aqeedah." (ad-Dawsiyyah, p. 6)

See Aqeedah Tahawiyah for the correct creed of Ahl as-Sunnah wa’l Jama’ah.
(http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/tahawi.html; accessed 18/8/04)

(7) “The Qur'an is the word of Allah. It came from Him as speech without it being possible to say how. He sent it down on His Messenger as revelation. The believers accept it, as absolute truth. They are certain that it is, in truth, the word of Allah. It is not created, as is the speech of human beings, and anyone who hears it and claims that it is human speech has become an unbeliever. Allah warns him and censures him and threatens him with Fire when He says, Exalted is He: `I will burn him in the Fire.' [al-Muddaththir 74:26] When Allah threatens with the Fire those who say `This is just human speech.' [al-Muddaththir 74:25] We know for certain that it is the Speech of the Creator of mankind and that it is totally unlike the speech of mankind.” (Aqeedah Tahawiyah by Imam Tahawi)
(http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/tahawi.html; accessed 18/8/04)

(8) Among the fundamentals of the people of the Sunnah and the Community is the belief in the miracles of the saints (Karamat al- Awliya): Allah created supernatural acts through them in all aspects of life, revelations (Mukashafat), power, and impressions. This is known of ancient nations in Surat al-Kahf (chapter 18) and in other Qur'anic chapters and is known of the early men of this Ummah amongst the Sahabah and the Tabi'un and amongst the rest of the generations of this Ummah. It will be with them to the Day of Resurrection. (Aqeedah Wasitiyah by Sheikh-ul-Islam ibn Taimiyah)
(http://iisca.org/knowledge/aqeedah/waasitiyyah_07_ahlulbait.htm; accessed 18/8/04)

(9) Hafiz Abul Qasim ibn 'Asakir has documented in Tarikh Dimashq that Imam an-Nasa'i was asked about Mu'awiyah. His reply was: "Islam is like a house with a door. The door of Islam is the Sahaba. Whoever speaks ill of the Sahaba seeks but to harm Islam, just like one who knocks a door to enter a house. As for Mu'awiyah, whoever speaks ill of him seeks to find a way to speak ill of the Sahaba." (Cited in Tahdhib al-Kamal, vol. 1 p. 339)
(http://www.albalagh.net/qa/amir_muawiyah_muhaditheen.shtm; accessed 18/8/04)

(10) Abu Mohammed was Emir of HT at the time he revealed this to one of his HT students so it cannot be said he had an axe to grind. The two apostates were also with the Party and were debating HT’s logical argument for Allah’s existence at the time they abandoned Islam which is a mandatory aspect of HT’s private syllabus.

y did any HT members reply to this????

[Abou Ubaydah]

I don't see the point of this discussion.

A modern example of how to establish the Khalifah can be seen in the biography of Shaykh Uthman Dan Fodio's whose establishment of the Khalifah seemed like it copied the Seerah of the Prophet (sallahu alayhi wa sallam).

Who is sheikh uthmaan.? can u pls elaborate.

Are there any doc available refuting HT's method to establish Khilafah ?

And is it woth critisizing them if they are following an ijtihaad ? they'll get a reward even if they r wrong.right ?