Lives of prophets in their graves.

[Quratul ayn]

Slmz.

The following link seems to present some strong proofs on the lives of prophets in their graves....
http://www.abc.se/~m9783/o/prb_e.html
Imam Bayhaqi also wrote an entire treatise on this subject which could be viewed here
http://www.al-eman.com/islamLib/viewchp.as...D=254&CID=1

Jzkl

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as-salaamu alaykum,

Ofcourse the Prophets alayhum salam are alive in their graves. I would just like to say though that GF hadad is a biased innovator. He promotes calling upon the dead etc and he has bayah with nazim al haqqani.

[Salahadeen]

The Prophet [s] is alive in the life of barzakh, not the life of this world.

Whoever says that he is alive in the life of this world is an innovator and he rejects the EXPLICIT statement of Abu Bakr [ra] that the Prophet [s] is dead.

Abu Bakr [ra] said:

"Whoever amongst you worshiped Muhammad [s], then Muhammad [s] is dead, but whoever worshiped Allah [swt], Allah [swt] is alive and will never die."

Do you follow Abu Bakr [ra] or Gibril Hadad?

[junaid123]

Do you follow Abu Bakr [ra] or Gibril Hadad?

akhi i dont know did u read that article or not, i haven´t also read the article. but as long as i can remember he belives prophets are alive in the sense of barzakh.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum,

I think salahadeen is meaning that gf haddad and his likes like to use this subject to justify calling upon those in the graves.

[kamals]

EVERYONE knows that our blessed Rasul (SAWS) is alive in the Barzakh, as are the maryters, the Shuhada.

The modalities of this life are unknown to us except in the most scarce of details conveyed by a few hadiths, the next life is "what no eyes have seen, no ears have heard..."

[Quratul ayn]

The Prophet [s] is alive in the life of barzakh, not the life of this world.

Whoever says that he is alive in the life of this world is an innovator and he rejects the EXPLICIT statement of Abu Bakr [ra] that the Prophet [s] is dead.

Abu Bakr [ra] said:

"Whoever amongst you worshiped Muhammad [s], then Muhammad [s] is dead, but whoever worshiped Allah [swt], Allah [swt] is alive and will never die."

Do you follow Abu Bakr [ra] or Gibril Hadad?
DID YOU READ BOTH THE ARTICLES?

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

Quratul what do you think of Gf haddads review of Taqwiyat al Iman by Shah Ismail ash shaheed rahimahullah?

[Quratul ayn]

Quratul what do you think of Gf haddads review of Taqwiyat al Iman by Shah Ismail ash shaheed rahimahullah?
I do not know GF Haddaad so well, but look what I wrote in my first post that lets look at his proofs.

[suhail]

I dont care what proof he presents. He is a liar and distorter which is enough for us to not believe anything he writes. Sorry if this offend you but there are many Ulema who have written on this subject and i would not take any knowledge from GF Haddad unless he repents.

[Quratul ayn]

Okay, then how about what Imam Bayhaqi said (as in the link in the first post)

[Skillganon]

Okay, then how about what Imam Bayhaqi said (as in the link in the first post)

The link is not working it say's "Page not found" sis. Maybe you can copy and paste the phrase or paragraph here.

Also no one really touch anything where the ink of GF Hadaad has touched upon. There is a reason for it. What would better if you can find translations from other than him.

[Quratul ayn]

Here Is It

ما ورد في حياة الأنبياء
ما ورد في حياة الأنبياء
( 1 من 1 )
السابق الآيات القرآنية الفهرس التالي



بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

أخبرنا الشيخ الإمام زين الإسلام أبو النصر عبدالرحيم بن عبدالكريم بن هوازن القيشيري رضي الله عنه في كتابه إلينا من نيسابور قال أخبرنا الشيخ الإمام أبوبكر أحمد بن الحسين البيقي رحمه الله قراءة عليه وأنا أسمع في ربيع الآخر سنة خمس وأربعين وأربعمائة‏.‏

وأخبرنا الشيخ الإمام الحافظ أبوبكر محمد بن عبدالله بن حبيب العامري أيده الله قال‏:‏ أخبرنا شيخ القضاة أبو علي إسماعيل بن أحمد بن الحسين البيهقي فيما قرأت عليه قال‏:‏ أخبرنا الإمام والدي شيخ السنّة رحمه الله قال‏:‏ الحمد لله رب العالمين والعاقبة للمتقين وصلواته على محمد وآله أجمعين‏.‏

ذكر ما روي في حياة الأنبياء صلوات الله عليهم بعد وفاتهم أخبرنا أبو سعد أحمد بن محمد بن خليل الصوفي رحمه الله قال‏:‏ أخبرنا أبو أحمد عبدالله بن عدي الحافظ قال‏:‏ حدّثنا بن عبد الله الرومي قال‏:‏ حدّثنا الحسن بن عرفة قال‏:‏ حدّثني الحسن بن قتيبة المدائني قال‏:‏ نا المستلم بن سعيد الثقفي عن الحجاج الأسود عن ثابت البناني عن أنس قال‏:‏ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏ هذا حديث يعد في أفراد الحسن بن قتيبة المدائني وقد رُوِيَ عن يحيى بن أبي بكير عن المستلم بن سعيد وهو فيما‏.‏

أخبرنا الثِّقة من أهل العلم قال‏:‏ ابنا أبو عمرون بن حمدان قالك ابنا أبو يعلى الموصلي ثنا أبو الجهم الأزرق بن علي ثنا يحيى بن أبي بكير ثنا المستلم بن سعيد عن الحجاج عن ثابت عن أنس بن مالك قال‏:‏ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏ ‏(‏الأنبياء أحياءٌ في قبورهم يصلّون‏)‏‏.‏

وقد روي من وجه آخر عن أنس بن مالك موقوفًا‏.‏

أخبرناه أبو أبو عثمان الإمام رحمه الله ابنا زاهر بن أحمد ثنا أبو جعفر محمد بن معاذ المالينيى نا الحسين بن الحسن نا مؤمل ثنا عبيد الله بن أبي حميد الهذلي عن أبي المليح عن أنس بن مالك قال‏:‏ ‏(‏الأنبياء في قبورهم أحياءٌ يصلّون‏)‏‏.‏

ورُوِيَ كما أخبرنا أبو عبد الله الحافظ نا أبو حامد أحمد بن علي الحسنوي إملاءً ثنا أبو عبد الله محمد بن العباس الحمصي ‏(‏بحمص‏)‏ ثنا أبو الربيع الزهراني ثنا إسماعيل بن طلحة بن يزيد عن محمد بن عبد الرحمن بن أبي ليلى عن ثابت عن أنس عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال‏:‏ ‏(‏الأنبياء لا يتركون في قبورهم بعد أربعين ليلة ولكنهم يصلّون بين يدي الله عز وجل حتى ينفح في الصور‏)‏‏.‏

وهذا إن صح بهذا اللفظ فالمراد به والله أعلم لا يَتركون يصلّون إلا هذا المقدار ثم يكونون مصلّين فيها بين يدي الله عز وجل كما روينا في الحديث الاول‏.‏

وقد يحتمل أن يكون المراد به رفع أجسادهم مع أرواحهم‏.‏

فقد روي سفيان الثوري في الجامع فقال‏:‏ قال شيخ لنا عن سعيد بن المصيب قال‏:‏ ما مكث نبي في قبر أكثر من أربعين ليلة حتى يرفع‏.‏

فعلى هذا يصيرون كسائر الأحياء يكونون حيثُ ينزلهم الله عز وجل كما روينا في حديث المعراج وغيره أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم رأى موسى عليه السلام قائما يصلّى في قبره ثم رأه مع سائر الأنبياء عليهم السلام في بيت المقدس ثم رأهم في السموات والله تبارك وتعالى فعّال لما يريد‏.‏

ولحياة الأنبياء بعد موتهم صلوات اله عليهم شواهد من الأحاديث الصحيحة منها أخبرنا أبوالحسين عل بن محمد بن عبدالله بن بشران ببغداد ابنا إسماعيل بن محمد الصفار ثنا محمد بن عبدالملك الدقيقي نا يزيد بن هرون ثنا سليمان التيمى عن أنس بن مالك أن بعض أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أخبره أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ليلة أسري به مرّ على وأخبرنا أبو الحسين بن بشران ابنا إسماعيل ثنا أحمد بن منصور بن سيار الرمادي ثنا يزيد بن أبي حكيم ثنا سفيان يعني الثوري ثنا سليمان التيمي عن أنس بن مالك قال‏:‏ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏ ‏(‏مررت على موسى وهو قائم يصلّي في قبره‏)‏‏.‏

أخبرنا أبو عبدالله الحافظ ثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب ثنا محمد بن عبيدالله بن المنادي ثنا يونس بن محمد المؤدّب ثنا حماد بن سلمة ثنا سليمان التيمي وثابت البناني عن أنس بن مالك أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال‏:‏ ‏(‏أتيت على موسى ليلة أُسري بي عند الكثيب الأحمر وهو قائم يصلّي في قبره‏)‏‏.‏

أخرجه مسلم بن الحجاج النيسابوري رحمه الله من حديث حماد بن سلمة وأخرجه من حديث الثوري وعيسى بن يونس وجرير بن عبدالحميد التيميى‏.‏

أخبرنا أحمد بن ‏(‏الحسن بن علي‏)‏ الحَرَشِي ابنا ابنا حاجب بن أحمد ثنا محمد بن يحيى ثنا أحمد بن خالد الوهبي ثنا عبدالعزيز بن أبي سلمة بن عبدالله بن الفضل الهاشمي عن أبي سلمة بن عبدالرحمن عن أبي هريرة قال‏:‏ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏ ‏(‏لقد رأيتني في الحِجْر وأنا أخبر قريشًا عن مَسراي فسألوني عن أشياء من بيت المقدس لم أثبتها فكربت كربًا ما كربتُ مثله قطّ فرفعه الله لي أنظر إليه ما يسألوني عن شيء إلا أنبأتهم به وقد رأيتني في جماعة من الأنبياء فإذا موسى قائم يصلّي فإذا رجل ضَربٌ جَعْدٌ كأنه من رجال شنوءَة وإذا عيسى ابن مريم قائم يصلّي أقرب الناس به شبهًا عروة بن مسعود الثقفي وإذا إبراهيم قائم يصلّي أشبه الناس به صاحبكم - يعني نفسه - فحانت الصلاد فأممتهم فلما فرغت من الصلاة قال لي قائل‏:‏ يا محمد هذا مالك صاحب النار فسِلِّم عليه فالتفت إليه فبدأني بالسلام‏)‏‏.‏

أخرجه مسلم في الصحيح من حديث عبد العزيز‏.‏

وفي حديث سعيد بن المسيب وغيره أنه لقيهم في مسجد بيت المقدس وفي حديث أبي ذر ومالك بن صعصعة في ‏(‏قصة‏)‏ المعراج أنه لقيهم في جماعة من الأنبياء في السماوات وكلّمهم وكلّموه وكل ذلك لا يخالف بعضه بعضًا فقد يرى موسى عليه السلام قائمًا يصلّي في قبره ثم يُسرى بموسى وغيره إلى بيت المقدس كما أُسري بنبيّنا صلى الله عليه وسلم فيراهم فيه ثم يُعرج بهم إلى السماوات كما عُرج بنبيّنا صلى الله عليه وسلم فيراهم فيها كما أخبر وحلولهم في أوقات بمواضع مختلفات جائر في العقل كما ورد في خبر الصادق وفي كل ذلك دلالة على حياتهم‏.‏

ومما يدل على ذلك ما أخبرنا محمد بن عبدالله الحافظ ثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب ثنا أبو جعفر أحمد بن عبدالحميد الحارثي ثنا الحسين بن علي الجعفي ثنا عبدالرحمن بن يزيد بن جابر عن أبي الأشعث الصنعاني عن أوس بن الثقفي قال‏:‏ قال لي رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏ ‏(‏أفضل أيامكم يوم الجمعة فيه خلق آدم وفيه قبض وفيه النفخة وفيه الصعقة فأكثروا عليَّ من الصلاة فيه فإن صلاتكم معروضة عليَّ‏)‏‏.‏

قالوا وكيف تعرض صلاتنا عليك وقد أرمت - يقولون بليت - فقال‏:‏ ‏(‏إن الله قد حرَّم على الأرض أن تأكل أجساد الأنبياء عليهم السلام‏)‏‏.‏

أخرجه أبو داود السجستاني في كتاب السنن‏.‏

وله شواهد منها ما أخبرنا أبو عبد الله الحافظ ثنا أبوبكر بن إسحاق الفقيه ابنا أحمد بن علي الأبّار أحمد بن عبدالرحمن بن بكار الدمشقي ثنا الوليد بن مسلم ثني ابورافع عن سعيد المقبري عن أبي مسعود الأنصاري عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه قال‏:‏ ‏(‏أكثروا الصلاد عليَّ في يوم الجمعة فإنه ليس يصلّي عليَّ أحد يوم الجمعة إلا عرضت عليَّ صلاته‏)‏‏.‏

وأخبرنا عليّ بن أحمد بن عبدان الكاتب ثنا أحمد بن عبيد الصفار ثنا الحسن بن سعيد ثنا إبراهيم بن الحجاج ثنا حماد بن سلمة عن برد بن سنان عن مكحول الشامي عن أبي أمامة قال‏:‏ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏ ‏(‏أكثروا عليَّ من الصلاة في كل يوم جمعة فإن صلاة أمتي تعرض عليَّ في كل يوم جمعة فَمن كان أكثرهم عليّ صلاة كان أقربهم منّي منزلة‏)‏‏.‏

وأخبرنا أبو ‏(‏الحسن‏)‏ علي بن محمد بن علي السَّقا الإسفرايني قال‏:‏ حدّثني والدي أبو علي ثنا أبو رافع أسامة بن علي بن سعيد الرازي بمصر ثنا محمد بن إسماعيل بن سلام الصائغ حدّثتنا حكّامة بنت عثمان بن دينار أخي مالك بن دينار قالت حدّثني أبي عثمان بن دينار عن أخيه مالك بن دينار عن أنس بن مالك خادم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال‏:‏ قال النبيى صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏‏(‏إن أقربكم منّي يوم القيامة في كل موطن أكثركم عليَّ صلاة في الدينا مَن صلّى عليَّ في يوم الجمعة وليلة الجمعة قضى الله له مائة حاجة سبعين من حوائج الآخرة وثلاثين من حوائج الدينا ثم يوكل الله بذلك مَلَكًا يدخله في قبري كما تدخل عليكم الهديا يخبرني مَن صلّى عليَّ باسمه ونسبه إلى عشيرته فأثبته في صحيفة بيضاء‏)‏‏.‏

وفي هذا المعنى الحديث الذي أخبرنا أبو علي الحسين بن محمد الروذباري ابنا أبوبكر بن داسه ثنا أبو داود ثنا أحمد بن صالح قال‏:‏ قرأت على عبدالله بن نافع قال‏:‏ أخبرني ابن أبي ذئب عن سعيد المقبري عن أبي هريرة قال‏:‏ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏ ‏(‏لا تجعلوا بيوتكم قبورًا ولا تجعلوا قبري عيدًا وصلّوا عليَّ فإن صلاتكم تبلغني حيث كنتم‏)‏‏.‏

وفي هذا المعنى الحديث الذي أخبرنا أبو محمد عبدالله بن يحيى بن عبدالجبار السكري ببغداد ثنا إسماعيل بن محمد الصفّار ثنا عباس بن عبدالله الترقفي ثنا أبو عبدالرحمن المقرئ ثنا حيوة بن شريح عن أبي صخر عن يزيد بن عبدالله بن قسيط عن أبي هريرة أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال‏:‏ ‏(‏ما من أحد يسلِّم عليَّ إلا ردّ الله إليَّ روحي حتى أردّ عليه السلام‏)‏‏.‏

‏(‏وإنما أراد - والله أعلم - إلا وقد ردَّ الله إليَّ روحي حتى أردَّ عليه السلام‏)‏‏.‏

وفي هذا المعنى الحديث الذي أخبرنا أبو القاسم علي بن ‏(‏الحسين‏)‏ بن عليّ الطهماني ‏(‏ثنا أبو الحسين‏)‏ ثنا أبو الحسن محمد الكارزي ثنا علي بن عبدالعزيز ثنا أبو نعيم ثنا سفيان عن عبدالله بن السائب عن زاذان عن عبدالله بن مسعود قال‏:‏ رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏ ‏(‏إن لله عز وجل ملائكة سيّاحين في الأرض يُيلِّقوني عن أمتي السلام‏)‏‏.‏

وأخبرنا أبو الحسين بن بشران وأبو القاسم عبدالرحمن بن عبيدالله الحرفي قالا أخبرنا حمزة بن محمد بن العباس ثنا أحمد بن الوليد ثنا ‏(‏أبو‏)‏ أحمد الزبيري ثنا إسرائيل عن أبي يحيى عن مجاهد عن ابن عباس قال‏:‏ ليس أحد من أمة محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم إلا وهي تبلغه يقول الملك‏:‏ فلان يصلّي عليك كذا وكذا صلاة‏.‏

أخبرنا علي بن محمد بن بشران ابنا أبوجعفر الرزاز أنا عيسى بن عبدالله الطيالسي ثنا العلاء بن عمرو الحنفي ثنا أبو عبدالرحمن عن الأعمش عن أبي صالح عن أبي هريرة عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال‏:‏ ‏(‏مَن صلّى عليَّ عند قبري سمعته ومَن صلّى عليَّ نائِيًا منه أُبلغته‏)‏‏.‏

أبو عبدالرحمن هذا هو محمد بن مروان السُّدي فيما أرى وفيه ونظر وقد مضى ما يؤكده‏.‏

وأخبرنا أبو عبدالله الحافظ أنا أبو عبدالله الصفّار ثنا أبوبكر بن أبي الدنيا حدّثني سويد بن سعيد حدّثني ابن أبي الرجال عن سليمان بن سحيم قال‏:‏ رأيت النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في النوم فقلت‏:‏ يا رسول الله هؤلاء الذين يأتونكم فيسلّمون عليكم أتفقه سلامهم قال‏:‏ ‏(‏نعم وأردُّ عليهم‏)‏‏.‏

ما أخبرنا محمد بن عبداله الحافظ أخبرني أبومحمد المزني ثنا عليّ بن محمد بن عيسى ثنا أبو اليمان أنا شعيب عن الزهري قال‏:‏ أخبرني أبو سلمة بن عبدالرحمن وسعيد بن المسيب أن أبا هريرة قال‏:‏ إستبَّ رجل من المسلمين ورجل من اليهود فقال المسلم‏:‏ والذي اصطفى محمدا على العالمين وأقسم بقَسَم‏.‏

فقال اليهودي‏:‏ والذي اصطفى موسى على العالمين فرفع المسلم عند ذلك يده فلطم اليهوديَّ فذهب اليهودي إلى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فأخبره بالذي كان من أمره وأمر المسلم فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏ ‏(‏لا تُخيِّروني على موسى فإن الناس يُصعَقون فأكون أوّل مَن يُفيق فإذا موسى باطش بجانب العرش فلا أدري كان ممّن صعق فأفاق قبلي أو كان ممّن استنثى الله عز وجل‏)‏‏.‏

رواه البخاري في الصحيح عن أبي اليمان‏.‏

وفي الحديث الثابت عن الأعرج عن أبي هريرة عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه قال‏:‏ ‏)‏لا تٌفَضِّلوا بين الأنبياء فإنه ينفخ في الصور فيُصعق من في السماوات ومَن في الأرض إلا مَن شاء الله‏.‏

ثم ينفح فيه أخرى فأكون أوّل مَن بعث أو في أول مَن بعث فإذا موسى آخذ بالعرض فلا أدري ‏(‏أحُوسب بصعقة يوم الطور أم بعث قبلي‏)‏‏.‏

وهذا إنما يصحّ على أن الله جلّ ثناؤه ردّ ‏(‏إلى‏)‏ الأنبياء عليهم السلام أرواحهم فهم أحياء عند ربهم كالشهداء فإذا نفخن في الصور النفخة الأولى صعقوا فيمن صعق ثم لا يكون ذلك موتًا في جميع معانيه إلا في ذهاب الاستشعار فإن كان موسى عليه السلام فيمن استنثى الله عز وجل بقوله‏:‏ ‏(‏إلا مَن شاء الله‏)‏ فإنه عزّ وجل يُذهب باستشعاره في تلك الحالة ويحاسبه بصعقة يوم الطور‏.‏

ويقال إن الشهداء من جملة مَن استنثى الله عز وجل بقوله‏:‏ ‏(‏إلا مَن شاءَ اللَه‏)‏‏.‏

ورُوينا فيه خبرًا مرفوعًا وهو مذكور مع سائر ما قيل في كتاب البعث والنشور وبالله تعالى التوفيق‏.‏

السابق

[Quratul ayn]

Since I am extremely busy, I would appreciate if someone can please translate the above for the benefit of those 'mujtahids' who do not understand Arabic.

[anam]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

wake up bro anam its time for salah

[suhail]

So are we busy. Why do you think we are free to do any translations? You are making a point here so you need to bring the proofs and provide translations. We were not the one who started this thread so complete the job or stop taking jabs at people.

[Um Abdullah M.]

sister
like the brothers said, we also believe that the Prophets are alive but in Barzakh, not dunya life.

the hadiths and ayat talking about Prophets and shuhadah being alive is in Barzakh world not in dunya.

Is that ur belief?

[Quratul ayn]

sister
like the brothers said, we also believe that the Prophets are alive but in Barzakh, not dunya life.

the hadiths and ayat talking about Prophets and shuhadah being alive is in Barzakh world not in dunya.

Is that ur belief?
We belief that prophets are alive and praying in their graves as suggested by the Ahadith quoted above.

[Quratul ayn]

For the benefit of those who resemble the kuffaar of Makkah when they hear the exact noble words of Nabi (sall Allahu alayhi wasallam) and our English speaking Mujtahids, I have reproduced the following
Deobandi's Beliefs Regarding the life of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W)

Bismillahir-rehmanir-raheem
Alhamdulillahi was-salaatu was-salaamu 'ala rasulehil-kareem
Amma ba'ad.

The belief of the Ulama-e-Deoband that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) is alive in his holy grave and can listen to the Salutation paid to him at his holy grave is not new, and this is proved by many Scholars from the Ahadith and Ijma-e-Ummah. The Mazhab of the Ulama-e-Deaband is no other than the Mazhab of the Ahle Sunnat wal Jam'ah which was the Mazhab of the Sahabah (radhiallu anhum). Few Ahadith on this subject are mentioned below :

Abu Hurairah (radhiallahu anhu) reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "Do not turn my grave into a site of festivities, but send greetings to me for your greetings are raised to me wherever you might be." (Reported by Abu Daw'ud with a sound chain of authorities)

Aus (radhiallahu anhu) reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "The best of your days is Friday, so send more and more greetings to me on it, for your greetings are presented to me." They asked, "How are our greetings presented to you while you are dead and your body is turned into dust?" He replied, "Allah has forbidden the earth to consume the bodies of the prophets." (Abu Daw'ud and Nasa'i)

Abu Hurairah (radhiallahu anhu) reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "When any Muslim sends greetings to me, Allah returns my soul to me so that I may respond to his greetings." (Reported by Abu Daw'ud with a sound chain of authorities)

Further more Hadhrat Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Muhammad Zakariya (rahmatullahi alaih) in his famous work "Fazail-e-Amal" mentioned some Ahadith along with their commentary on this subject.

Excerpts from "Fazail-e-Amal", section Virtues of Darood Sharif :

Ibn Mas'ud (radhiallahu anhu) reports that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "There are many angels of Allah who walk about the world and carry the Salam to me which is sent by my Ummah (People). " [An-Nasai]
There are several Ahadith of the same meaning narrated by different Companions of the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam). 'Allamah Sakhawi (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has quoted the same lines narrated by Hadhrat Ali (radhiallahu anhu) that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "Some angels of Allah walk about the world and bring Darud to me which is sent by my Ummah." It is quoted in Targhib that Imam Hasan (radhiallahu anhu) narrated the saying of the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam): "Send Darud upon me at whatsoever place you may be because your Darud reaches me." Hadhrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu) has also reported the same lines from the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam): "Whosoever sends Darud upon me, it reaches me, in return of which I also send Darud upon him, and ten virtues are also added in his account." In Mishkat it is reported by Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (radhiallahu anhu) that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "Send Darud upon me abundantly because it reaches me."

Hadhrat 'Ammar bin Yasir (radhiallahu anhu) narrates that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "Allah has appointed an angel at my grave who has a power to hear the talks of all the creation (of Allah). When a person asks blessing upon me the angel conveys it to me telling the name of that person and the name of his father."
'Allamah Sakhawi (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has quoted this Hadith in his book Qaul-i-Badi'.
In another Hadith it has been reported that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "Allah has given power to one of His angels to hear the talks of all the creation. That angel has been appointed on my grave till the Day of Judgement. When a person sends Darud upon me the angel tells me his name and his father's name. Allah has promised me to send ten Darud on the person who sends one Darud upon me."

Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (radhiallahu anhu) narrates that he heard the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) saying: "I hear my self the blessings asked upon me nearby my tomb; and the blessings asked upon me from a distant place are conveyed to me." [Bahiqi, Mishkat]
'Allamah Sakhawi (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has quoted a number of narrations of similar meaning in Qaul-i-Badi, that the angels are appointed to carry the Darud, sent by the distant person, to the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam), and the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) hears himself the Darud sent near his holy tomb. Besides the fact of conveyance of the Darud to the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam), this Hadith also points out a more glorified and pleasurable event that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) himself hears the Darud sent on him near his holy tomb.
Mulla Ali Qari (rahmatullahi 'alaihi) says: "There is no doubt that to send Darud near the holy tomb is superior that to send it from a distant place because humility, presence and concentration of mind is more in nearness."
Commenting on the above Hadith the compiler of Mazahir-i-Haque Shaikh Abdul Haque (rahmatullahi 'alaihi) writes: "It is clear due to this Hadith that the Holy Prophet himself listens the Darud sent close to his tomb without any other agency, but the Darud sent on him from a distant place is carried by the angels. The Salaam is replied in both the cases." This also marks the importance of the Salam and signifies those persons who send it abundantly. It is, really, a great honour to have only one reply of all the Salams sent in our whole life then what to say about all the replies.
No doubt the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) himself hears the Darud sent close to his tomb because all the prophets are alive in their graves. 'Allamah Sakhawi (rahmatullah 'alaihi) writes in his book Qaul-i-Badi': "We firmly believe and confirm that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) is alive in his grave. This is one of the unanimous beliefs (on which there is Ijma') of the theologians." Imam Behaqi (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has written a book on the belief of "Hayat-i-Ambiya" (i.e. the prophets are alive in their graves) Hadhrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu) narrates the Hadith: "All the prophets are alive in their graves and they offer there the Salat"

'Allamah Sakhawi (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has mentioned this Hadith from a number of Isnad (Charters). Imam Muslim (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has mentioned another Hadith narrated by Hadhrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu) that the Holy Pophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "In the night of Ascention (Lailat-i-Mi'raj), I passed by prophet Musa and saw him offering the Salat in his grave." Imam Muslim has mentioned another Hadith that Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "I saw myself with a group of the prophets and observed that Hadhrat 'Isa and Hadhrat Ibrahim (alaihumas salam) were in standing posture while offering Salat." Imam Bukhari (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has reported that after the sad demise of the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) Hadhrat Abu Bakr (radhiallahu anhu) visited the holy corpse and uncovered the holy face from the sheet. He then said, 'O Prophet of Allah! May my parents be sacrificed for you, Allah has not caused two deaths for you. The death which was destined for you has been caused."
'Allamah Suyuti (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has also written a book on "Hayat-i-Ambiya" (i.e. the prophets are alive in their graves). It is forbidden to earth to spoil the body of a prophet.

Hadhrat Abu Darda (radhiallahu anhu) narrates that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "Ask blessings upon me abundantly on Fiday because the angels visit abundantly on this day. And as soon as a person asks blessings (upon me), those are carried to me." Abu Darda says: "I asked the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam): even after the death?" The Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) replied, "Yes, of course. Allah has forbidden the earth to spoil the (holy) bodies of the prophets ('alaihumas salam). [Ibn Majah] [So the Prophet of Allah is alive (in his grave) and he is fed.]"
Mulla 'Ali Qari says: "Since Allah has forbidden the earth to spoil the bodies of the prophets, there is not much difference in their lives on the earth and in the graves." This Hadith also points out that the Darud (blessings) is presented both to the body and the soul. The last part of the Hadith: 'The Prophet of Allah is alive in his grave and he is fed', seems to refer the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam). But because of its common meaning it may be taken for all the prophets.
In another Hadith it is stated: "The Prophets offer the Salat in their graves"; this is a Sahih (authentic) Hadith. The food (given to the prophets in their graves) may be of worldly kind or it may be a simile.
'Allamah Sakhawi has quoted this Hadith through a number of Isnad. He has quoted a similar Hadith narrated by Hadhrat Aws (radhiallahu anhu) according to which the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "Friday is the most excellent day among all of your (week) days. On this very day Hadhrat Adam ('alaihis salam) was created and also died. Both the first and second Trumpets will be resounded on this day. I ask you, therefore, to recite Darud abundantly on fridays, because your Darud is presented to me." On this point the Companions (radhiallahu 'anhum) asked, 'O Prophet of Allah! How will our Darud be presented to you in the grave where your (Holy) body would be rotten?" The Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) replied, "Allah has forbidden the earth to spoil the (holy) bodies of the prophets ('alaihumus salam)."

One more thing I would like to mention at this point, that, the Ulama's of Ahle Hadith group also supports the above mentioned views and for that I had put up a website in Urdu www.geocities.com/badr_313/hayat-nabi.htm so if anybody really interested to know about this please visit the site.
By mentioning all this I just wanted to clear out the stand of the Deobandis, which is not baseless. I am not at all interested in any kind of debate nor I want to criticize anybody. It is incorrect for non-scholars and non-academics to pass a judgment especially on such learned people. They should fear Allah and abstain from engaging themselves in such discussions. Rasulullah (sallallahu-alayhi-wasallam) prayed:
"O Allah! let me not be alive and may you (O Sahabah!) also not be alive at such a time when the Aalim will not be followed, and when no respect will be shown to the wise-learned ones. The people of that time will have hearts like kuffaar and their tongues will be eloquently sweet like the tongue of the Arabs." - Targheeb (al-I'tidaal of H.Shaikh)

O Lord ! Shower Thy Blessings and send eternal peace in continuation, upon Thy Beloved (Prophet) who is the Best of all the creation.
Show us the straight way, The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray... Ameen.
Wa Aakheru da'wana 'anil hamdu lillahi rabbil 'alameen.

[Quratul ayn]

I have mentioned the dalaa'il of the Deobandi Ulama. It is obvious that since the salafies will not be able to respond to any of the above proofs nor do they have any proofs to post, they will resort to mud slinging (as is their general practice). I, therefore, seek permission to leave this discussion saying to all the ignorant ones 'SALAMA'

[Um Abdullah M.]

We belief that prophets are alive and praying in their graves as suggested by the Ahadith quoted above.

sister, that is not a clear answer.
we do not deny that hadith, but we believe that their life is Barzakhi life.

now do you believe that their life is like our life in this dunya, or a different life that is between dunya life and akhirah life?

[Quratul ayn]

Note: I am refraining from using the word barzakh due to its vast meaning (as will be known by those who studied aqeedah) Thus, I'll say, we belief that Nabi sall Allahu alayhi wasallam life is not like that of the world and he is not in need of food, drinks and other human needs. Hope that answers your question, otherwise, ask it in a more specific way.

[suhail]

I dont even understand your problem. I mean we agree that the life of Prophet(SAW) after this death is not like this world. It is the life of barzakh. What is your problem? I dont know. You are here to just cause trouble and fitnah nothing more nothing less. It is people like you who cause all these divide within the ummah.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum

perhaps she just didnt know that Salafees believe in the life of the Prophet salalahu alayhi wa salam in barzakh due to what the slanderers have accused the salafee masses of.

[suhail]

Brother we have explained to her repeatedly. Also she thinks somehow that we are anti deobandi. I am just amazed at her.

[abdulmuhsee]

For the benefit of those who resemble the kuffaar of Makkah when they hear the exact noble words of Nabi (sall Allahu alayhi wasallam) and our English speaking Mujtahids, I have reproduced the following

Quratul ayn, I have nothing against Deobandis, and I am attenting a Deobandi madrassa myself, but I do have something against you, since you are very pretentious, rude, and assume to much. Also, I don't understand if you're talking about kuffar in makkah or saying that the Muslims in makkah resemble the kuffar. Taking after your example, I will 'assume' you mean the latter without inquiring from you, since you do not inquire from the people here and attack them, and I will assume that you just made takfir on the Muslims of makkah.

Abu Hurairah (radhiallahu anhu) reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "Do not turn my grave into a site of festivities, but send greetings to me for your greetings are raised to me wherever you might be." (Reported by Abu Daw'ud with a sound chain of authorities).

This is really a proof that the Prophet, salallahu alayhe wa sallem, is alive in barzakh, and not his physical body in a dark underground grave. How exactly would people's greeting be 'raised' to him if he was actually underneath them living in his grave? And as for the other hadith where the Prophet, salallahu alayhe wa sallem, said that when someone greets him, his soul is temporarily returned to his body so he can respond. This assumes that his soul is not always in his body, and is is somewhere else the rest of the time. The third hadith somewhat assumes he is living in his grave, since he, salallahu alayhe wa sallem, said that Allah has forbidden the earth to consume the bodies of prophets, but this may well go along with the other hadith where his soul may be temporarily returned to his body. All in all, I don't see how this contradicts the position that the Prophet, salallahu alayhe wa sallem is alive in barzakh, since what these ahadith describe do not resemble the life we know of greeting being 'raised' to him or a soul being put in and taken out of a body in the grave. Also, how can one be sure it literally means his soul is returned to that body whose mouth is muffled with dirt to respond? This is an Allahu Alim issue, and it is enough for us to know that he receives are greetings and responds to them, and nobody here denies that.

So please stop looking for a fight, Quratul ayn; you are attacking the people here and assuming things about them that are not always true. You can call me a salafi and associate me with them, and I make taqlid just like you. However, the whole anti-taqleed movement grew out of opposition to blind-following, which is also incorrect. Salafis make taqlid as well, and I believe most of them will testify to that, but the idea is to take a moderate course, and know what evidence is behind so-and-so's opinion. Even Abu Hanifa said that nobody was allowed to follow his verdicts that did not know the evidence behind them, and that when a hadith was found to be saheeh, then that was his maddhab. The two extremes of every layman being a mujtahid and that of condemning yourself to following the school of such-and-such at the expense of proofs from others are both incorrect, and I believe most of the people here, and salafis in general, hold that view. I've had this discussion with the deobandi 'alims at my madrassa, and we understood each other very well on this point, that salafis and deobandis hold too much in common, with the exception of petty things, like this here that you are bringing up, to justify such a schism. So please let us work together instead of destroying Islam from within.

Rasulullah (sallallahu-alayhi-wasallam) prayed:
"O Allah! let me not be alive and may you (O Sahabah!) also not be alive at such a time when the Aalim will not be followed, and when no respect will be shown to the wise-learned ones. The people of that time will have hearts like kuffaar and their tongues will be eloquently sweet like the tongue of the Arabs." - Targheeb (al-I'tidaal of H.Shaikh)

First, please show the isnad for this hadith. Secondly, as I have previously stated, Salafis both follow and respect the scholars, so please do not lump them in with those who do not.

[junaid123]

I dont even understand your problem. I mean we agree that the life of Prophet(SAW) after this death is not like this world. It is the life of barzakh. What is your problem? I dont know. You are here to just cause trouble and fitnah nothing more nothing less. It is people like you who cause all these divide within the ummah.

most of the people think that deobandis belive that prophet mohamamd is alive in physical sense. tahts why may be sister posted the thread that deobanids dont belive he is alive in physical sense but in barzakh sense like salafis do.

[Salahadeen]

most of the people think that deobandis belive that prophet mohamamd is alive in physical sense. tahts why may be sister posted the thread that deobanids dont belive he is alive in physical sense but in barzakh sense like salafis do.

Let me get clear confirmation on this:

So Deobandis agree that the Prophet [s] is dead in the worldly life but alive in the life of barzakh? If yes, then why do Salafis and Deobandis fight like cats and dogs on this issue?

[junaid123]

Let me get clear confirmation on this:

So Deobandis agree that the Prophet [s] is dead in the worldly life but alive in the life of barzakh? If yes, then why do Salafis and Deobandis fight like cats and dogs on this issue?

salafis says deobandi and barelwis are 2 side of same coins. so they got wrong information and accuse deobandis that they belive prophets are alive liek this world!

and some think that cause of this reason 2 groups among deobandi(hayati and mamati!)
whcih doesnt make any sense! may be the some other difference will be present between them but not the matter of prophet bein alive in grave in sense of barzakh.

[Quratul ayn]

Let me get clear confirmation on this:

So Deobandis agree that the Prophet [s] is dead in the worldly life but alive in the life of barzakh? If yes, then why do Salafis and Deobandis fight like cats and dogs on this issue?
Thats why we should hold these discussions which will manifest and lead to our unity.

[junaid123]

Thats why we should hold these discussions which will manifest and lead to our unity.


they have unity. barelwis calls deobandis wahabi and salafis also wahabi.

they both got same unique name

[Adeel]

For the benefit of those who resemble the kuffaar of Makkah when they hear the exact noble words of Nabi (sall Allahu alayhi wasallam) and our English speaking Mujtahids, I have reproduced the following
Deobandi's Beliefs Regarding the life of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W)

Please tell us whom you are referring to here. Deobandi beliefs on the life of the Prophet(peace be upon him) are the same as of Bareilvis. And according to them his(peace be upon him) life is physical and worldy. Keeping this in mind I will try to refute the proofs presented for this.

The belief of the Ulama-e-Deoband that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) is alive in his holy grave and can listen to the Salutation paid to him at his holy grave is not new, and this is proved by many Scholars from the Ahadith and Ijma-e-Ummah.

There is no authentic hadith whatsoever which states that Holy Prophet(peace be upon him) hears the salutations send upon him. The authentic hadiths only prove that it is presented to him by angels of Allah. This is not very rare as I have often heard Ulema of deoband claiming Ijma on issues on which there never was, including this very issue. Ijma is rather on the death of the Holy Prophet(peace be upon him) when every Sahabi agreed with the greatest companion Hazrat Abu Bakr on this issue on the death of the Prophet(peace be upon him).



Aus (radhiallahu anhu) reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "The best of your days is Friday, so send more and more greetings to me on it, for your greetings are presented to me." They asked, "How are our greetings presented to you while you are dead and your body is turned into dust?" He replied, "Allah has forbidden the earth to consume the bodies of the prophets." (Abu Daw'ud and Nasa'i)

This hadith is not without a doubt. It contains a narrator Abdullah bin Yazid and some consider him to be Ibn Tamim who is munkar-ul-hadith according to Bukhari while some consider him to be Ibn Jabir who is thiqa. But there is no doubt that it established from the authentic narrations that the body of the Prophet(peace be upon hi) is preserved in the grave.

Abu Hurairah (radhiallahu anhu) reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "When any Muslim sends greetings to me, Allah returns my soul to me so that I may respond to his greetings." (Reported by Abu Daw'ud with a sound chain of authorities)

Imam Suyootee graded this hadith as weak. This is a gharib hadith. No one narrates it from Abu Hurairah except Yazid Ibn Abdullah Ibn Qusayt and no narrates it from Yazid Ibn Abdullah Ibn Qusayt except Abu Sakhr Humayd bin Ziyaad and he saduq yahim according to Hafidh Ibn Hajr. Yazid abdullah Qusayt is narrator of the sahihs and Thiqas like Imam Malik and Layth bin Sa'ad narrate from him. None of them narrate this hadith from Yazid Ibn Abdullah except Abu Sakhr who is disputed among muhadithin. Imam Ibn Qayyim in his "Jala'a al Afhaam" said that I heard my Sheikh(none other than Ibn Tayyimiya) say that Yazid Ibn Abdullah Ibn Qusayt did not hear from Abu Hurairah. The Imam, the Hafiz Ibn Abdul Haadi in his tremendous book "Sarem Al Munki" said that nobody has followed Abu Sakhr in this hadith from Abu Hurairah and none has followed Yazid ibn Abdullah Ibn Qusayt in this hadith from Abu Hurairah. Sheikh Albani and Allamah ibn Baaz considered this hadith to be Hasan and explained that it is the matter of Barzakh. (Allah knows best)

Further more Hadhrat Shaikhul Hadith Maulana Muhammad Zakariya (rahmatullahi alaih) in his famous work "Fazail-e-Amal" mentioned some Ahadith along with their commentary on this subject.

Sheikh ul Hadith who has included many fabricated narrations in Fazail-e-Aamal right?!

Excerpts from "Fazail-e-Amal", section Virtues of Darood Sharif :

Ibn Mas'ud (radhiallahu anhu) reports that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "There are many angels of Allah who walk about the world and carry the Salam to me which is sent by my Ummah (People). " [An-Nasai]
There are several Ahadith of the same meaning narrated by different Companions of the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam). 'Allamah Sakhawi (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has quoted the same lines narrated by Hadhrat Ali (radhiallahu anhu) that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "Some angels of Allah walk about the world and bring Darud to me which is sent by my Ummah." It is quoted in Targhib that Imam Hasan (radhiallahu anhu) narrated the saying of the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam): "Send Darud upon me at whatsoever place you may be because your Darud reaches me."

Does these proof life or that he hears the darud?!

Hadhrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu) has also reported the same lines from the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam): "Whosoever sends Darud upon me, it reaches me, in return of which I also send Darud upon him, and ten virtues are also added in his account."

Please direct me to the arabic version of this hadith. Or provide the sanad for this. This also does'nt proof life in the worldly sense or proof that he hears the salam.

Hadhrat 'Ammar bin Yasir (radhiallahu anhu) narrates that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "Allah has appointed an angel at my grave who has a power to hear the talks of all the creation (of Allah). When a person asks blessing upon me the angel conveys it to me telling the name of that person and the name of his father."
'Allamah Sakhawi (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has quoted this Hadith in his book Qaul-i-Badi'.
In another Hadith it has been reported that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "Allah has given power to one of His angels to hear the talks of all the creation. That angel has been appointed on my grave till the Day of Judgement. When a person sends Darud upon me the angel tells me his name and his father's name. Allah has promised me to send ten Darud on the person who sends one Darud upon me."

Both of the hadiths are weak with their chains. The first chain includes Bakr bin Khadaash and Muhammed bin Abdullah bin Salih and they are unknown. The second chain includes Nu'aym bin Zamzam and Imran bin Humairi and they both are also unknown.

Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (radhiallahu anhu) narrates that he heard the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) saying: "I hear my self the blessings asked upon me nearby my tomb; and the blessings asked upon me from a distant place are conveyed to me." [Bahiqi, Mishkat]

Ibn jawzi said it is Mawdu. And find out yourself as it has been refuted several times otherwise stick with it as the likes of Haddad do.


'Allamah Sakhawi (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has quoted a number of narrations of similar meaning in Qaul-i-Badi, that the angels are appointed to carry the Darud, sent by the distant person, to the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam), and the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) hears himself the Darud sent near his holy tomb. Besides the fact of conveyance of the Darud to the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam), this Hadith also points out a more glorified and pleasurable event that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) himself hears the Darud sent on him near his holy tomb.
Mulla Ali Qari (rahmatullahi 'alaihi) says: "There is no doubt that to send Darud near the holy tomb is superior that to send it from a distant place because humility, presence and concentration of mind is more in nearness."
Commenting on the above Hadith the compiler of Mazahir-i-Haque Shaikh Abdul Haque (rahmatullahi 'alaihi) writes: "It is clear due to this Hadith that the Holy Prophet himself listens the Darud sent close to his tomb without any other agency, but the Darud sent on him from a distant place is carried by the angels. The Salaam is replied in both the cases." This also marks the importance of the Salam and signifies those persons who send it abundantly. It is, really, a great honour to have only one reply of all the Salams sent in our whole life then what to say about all the replies.
No doubt the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) himself hears the Darud sent close to his tomb because all the prophets are alive in their graves. 'Allamah Sakhawi (rahmatullah 'alaihi) writes in his book Qaul-i-Badi': "We firmly believe and confirm that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) is alive in his grave. This is one of the unanimous beliefs (on which there is Ijma') of the theologians." Imam Behaqi (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has written a book on the belief of "Hayat-i-Ambiya" (i.e. the prophets are alive in their graves) Hadhrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu) narrates the Hadith: "All the prophets are alive in their graves and they offer there the Salat"


All the people who say that the Prophet(peace be upon him) hears the darud near his grave have no proof for this no matter who he is. Ijma is on the death of the holy Prophet(peace be upon him) and that he is alive in Barzakh. The hadith of Hazrat Anas has been explained on this forum already so please bother to search it. This report according to Imam Dhahabi is munkar but Hasan according to Hafiz Ibn hajr and Sheikh Albani due to a narrator Hajjaj al Aswad who according to Sheikh Albani is Thiqa and Imam Dhahabi was mistaken on this. (Allah knows best)


'Allamah Sakhawi (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has mentioned this Hadith from a number of Isnad (Charters). Imam Muslim (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has mentioned another Hadith narrated by Hadhrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu) that the Holy Pophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "In the night of Ascention (Lailat-i-Mi'raj), I passed by prophet Musa and saw him offering the Salat in his grave." Imam Muslim has mentioned another Hadith that Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "I saw myself with a group of the prophets and observed that Hadhrat 'Isa and Hadhrat Ibrahim (alaihumas salam) were in standing posture while offering Salat." Imam Bukhari (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has reported that after the sad demise of the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) Hadhrat Abu Bakr (radhiallahu anhu) visited the holy corpse and uncovered the holy face from the sheet. He then said, 'O Prophet of Allah! May my parents be sacrificed for you, Allah has not caused two deaths for you. The death which was destined for you has been caused."
'Allamah Suyuti (rahmatullah 'alaihi) has also written a book on "Hayat-i-Ambiya" (i.e. the prophets are alive in their graves). It is forbidden to earth to spoil the body of a prophet.

This is what I was referring to regarding Hazrat Abu Bakr and the rest were miracles of the Prophet(peace be upon him).

Hadhrat Abu Darda (radhiallahu anhu) narrates that the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "Ask blessings upon me abundantly on Fiday because the angels visit abundantly on this day. And as soon as a person asks blessings (upon me), those are carried to me." Abu Darda says: "I asked the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam): even after the death?" The Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) replied, "Yes, of course. Allah has forbidden the earth to spoil the (holy) bodies of the prophets ('alaihumas salam). [Ibn Majah] [So the Prophet of Allah is alive (in his grave) and he is fed.]"

The last part of the hadith which you included in the brackets i.e [So the Prophet of Allah is alive (in his grave) and he is fed.] is the part of the hadith in Ibn Majah from Hazrat Abu Darda with a munqita chain. What is established is that the bodies of the Prophets are preserved.



In another Hadith it is stated: "The Prophets offer the Salat in their graves"; this is a Sahih (authentic) Hadith. The food (given to the prophets in their graves) may be of worldly kind or it may be a simile.

How do you know that it is of a worldy kind?!

'Allamah Sakhawi has quoted this Hadith through a number of Isnad. He has quoted a similar Hadith narrated by Hadhrat Aws (radhiallahu anhu) according to which the Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) said, "Friday is the most excellent day among all of your (week) days. On this very day Hadhrat Adam ('alaihis salam) was created and also died. Both the first and second Trumpets will be resounded on this day. I ask you, therefore, to recite Darud abundantly on fridays, because your Darud is presented to me." On this point the Companions (radhiallahu 'anhum) asked, 'O Prophet of Allah! How will our Darud be presented to you in the grave where your (Holy) body would be rotten?" The Holy Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) replied, "Allah has forbidden the earth to spoil the (holy) bodies of the prophets ('alaihumus salam)."

Have already explained the above hadith.

I am not at all interested in any kind of debate nor I want to criticize anybody. It is incorrect for non-scholars and non-academics to pass a judgment especially on such learned people. They should fear Allah and abstain from engaging themselves in such discussions. Rasulullah (sallallahu-alayhi-wasallam) prayed:
"O Allah! let me not be alive and may you (O Sahabah!) also not be alive at such a time when the Aalim will not be followed, and when no respect will be shown to the wise-learned ones. The people of that time will have hearts like kuffaar and their tongues will be eloquently sweet like the tongue of the Arabs." - Targheeb (al-I'tidaal of H.Shaikh)

The Ahlul Hadith do not believe that the life of the Prophet is worldy and physical as deobands do. As being a former deoband I was ignorant of this belief of deobands as well as many of the "common" deobandis are but when I learnt the case was different. Why do you think the deobandis then have split up into two groups known as hayatis and mamatis. Actually it is none other than the Ashari thing as they believe that the soul cannot exist by it self rather it is an attribute of the body and the whole filthy philosophy they have brought in this Pure Deen of Allah. The same advise which you are giving to others applies to you as well so why these double standards. And I also want to know from where have you taken the last hadith with exact reference.

And Allah knows best!

[Quratul ayn]

[QUOTE=Adeel;109144]Please tell us whom you are referring to here. Deobandi beliefs on the life of the Prophet(peace be upon him) are the same as of Bareilvis. And according to them his(peace be upon him) life is physical and worldy. Keeping this in mind I will try to refute the proofs presented for this.[QUOTE]

Do you have any references from the books of authentic Deobandi Scholars or is it?

[junaid123]

[QUOTE=Adeel;109144]Please tell us whom you are referring to here. Deobandi beliefs on the life of the Prophet(peace be upon him) are the same as of Bareilvis. And according to them his(peace be upon him) life is physical and worldy. Keeping this in mind I will try to refute the proofs presented for this.[QUOTE]

Do you have any references from the books of authentic Deobandi Scholars or is it?

see sister !

as i told u, that brother didn´t even read the article and started to say that deobandis use to believe same like barelwis. allthough i have allready quoted the fatwa of ask-imam where he said : we believe he is alive in the sense of barzakh.

[Adeel]

Do you have any references from the books of authentic Deobandi Scholars or is it?

Al Muhnnad A'la Al Mufnad fee Aqaid Deoband.
The book Aab-e-Hayat by Qasim Nanutawi.

[Adeel]

see sister !

as i told u, that brother didn´t even read the article and started to say that deobandis use to believe same like barelwis. allthough i have allready quoted the fatwa of ask-imam where he said : we believe he is alive [B]in the sense of barzakh.

As a former deobandi I know that "common" deobandis are unaware of this. Good for you.

[junaid123]

Al Muhnnad A'la Al Mufnad fee Aqaid Deoband.
The book Aab-e-Hayat by Qasim Nanutawi.


hope u have comment also, not only quote. like some barelwis quote that deobandis believe allah can tell lie, and without knowing the comment what it means.

[junaid123]

As a former deobandi I know that "common" deobandis are unaware of this. Good for you.


hmmm u seems to be a sheikh of deoband and not common deoband. and sheikh desai also stated a special comment for common deobandi, but he believe some special things.

[Adeel]

hope u have comment also, not only quote. like some barelwis quote that deobandis believe allah can tell lie, and without knowing the comment what it means.

It is your duty not mine. It is the Aqaid book of deobandis. It basically states that the barzakhi life of the Prophet(peace be upon him) is similar to wordly life.

[junaid123]

It is your duty not mine. It is the Aqaid book of deobandis. .

yeah u just paste the quotes like barelwis do without any comment. if u sure u know the right meaning then write it. but dont claim like the barelwis do.


It basically states that the barzakhi life of the Prophet(peace be upon him) is similar to wordly life.

inshallah write the sentence which it states in book.

[Adeel]

hmmm u seems to be a sheikh of deoband and not common deoband. and sheikh desai also stated a special comment for common deobandi, but he believe some special things.

Junaid, do not the deobands believe that Prophet(peace be upon him) hear the salam near the graves?!
2) is'nt there a group known as mamatis whom hayaties consider deviant because they believe prophet(peace be upon him) is dead?

Stop this taunting and give your advises to the one who wrote the article and ask for its clarification.

[junaid123]

Junaid, do not the deobands believe that Prophet(peace be upon him) hear the salam near the graves?!

does it means that he is alive in the sense of this world? cant it be possible in the sense of barzakh?

2) is'nt there a group known as mamatis whom hayaties consider deviant because they believe prophet(peace be upon him) is dead?


akhi who doesnt believe that prophet mohammad is dead? if u think so called hayati doesnt belive that prophet mohammad is dead then paste their comment.

[junaid123]

prophet mohammad(sw) is able to hear some things which is not possible by us. take it as his(sw) miracle which is given by allah.

Sahih Muslim, Book 040, Number 6869 Narrated Ibn Shihab: These were the battles of Allah's Apostle (which he fought), and while mentioning
(the Badr battle) he said, "While the corpses of the pagans were being thrown into the well, Allah's Apostle said (to them), 'Have you found what your Lord promised true?" 'Abdullah said, "Some of the Prophet's companions said, "O Allah's Apostle! You are addressing dead people.' Allah's Apostle replied, 'You do not hear what I am saying, better than they.' ……"

Muslim :: Book 40 : Hadith 6862 Anas b. Malik reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) having said: When the servant is placed in his grave and his companions retrace their steps arid he hears the noise of the footsteps, then two angels come to him and make him sit and say to him..........

Sahih Muslim, Book 002, Number 0483
Sulaiman b. Buraida narrated on the authority of his father that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to teach them when they went out to the graveyard. One of the narrators used to say this in the narration transmitted on the authority of Abu Bakr:
"Peace be upon the inhabitants of the city (i. e. graveyard)." In the hadith transmitted by Zuhair (the words are):" Peace be upon you, the inhabitants of the city, among the believers, and Muslims, and God willing we shall join you. I beg of Allah peace for us and for you."

Syyeduna Rasoolullah said: "when ever some on send salam to saahib-e-Qabr then he replies, and if he know him in his life then he do know him after death" (Baheeqi Fee Su'Bil Iman, Ibn-e-Abi Dunya)


Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 462: Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri : Allah's Apostle said, "When the funeral is ready (for its burial) and the people lift it on their shoulders, then if deceased is a righteous person he says, 'Take me ahead,' and if he is not a righteous one then he says, 'Woe to it (me)! Where are you taking it (me)?' And his voice is audible to everything except human beings; and if they heard it they would fall down unconscious."

Sahih Muslim #220 Amr bin Aas (r.a) said. When you bury me, fill my grave well with earth, then stand around it for the time within which a camel is slaughtered and its meat is distributed so that I may enjoy your intimacy and (in your company) ascertain what answer I can give to the messengers (angels) of Allah.

brotehr bilal allready gave some comment. but ask ur personal scholar what they mean about it.


Abū Mansūr as-Sabbāgh who writes the famous narration in his book that, according to ‘Utbī,
once he was sitting beside the Prophet’s grave when a bedouin came and he said: ‘Peace be on you, O Allāh’s Messenger! I have heard that Allāh says, “(O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allāh, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allāh the Granter of repentance, extremely Merciful. ” I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins and I make you as intercessor before my Lord and I have come to you for this purpose. ’ Then he recited these verses: ‘O, the most exalted among the buried people who improved the worth of the plains and the hillocks! May I sacrifice my life for this grave which is made radiant by you, (the Prophet,) the one who is (an embodiment of) mercy and forgiveness.’ Then the bedouin went away and I fell asleep. In my dream I saw the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). He said to me: ‘O ‘Utbī, the bedouin is right, go and give him the good news that Allāh has forgiven his sins.
Ibn Kathīr, Tafsīr-ul-Qur’ān al-‘azīm (1:519-20).

[Adeel]

akhi who doesnt believe that prophet mohammad is dead? if u think so called hayati doesnt belive that prophet mohammad is dead then paste their comment.

Junaid you argue for nothing.

According to us and our Mashaaikhs the Prophet (peace be upon him) is alive in his grave and this life is similar to the life of the world and it is specific with the Prophets(peace be upon them all)............(This is in the Aqaid book of deoband reference already given)

Plus the ongoing debate between hayatis and mammatis and their refutations against each other e.g Maqam-e-hayat, Aab-e-Hayat, Hayat-e-Anbiya Karaam, etc. So please get on with this and bring me the clarification of the issue in the article of this life and that he hears salam near the grave.

Sheikh Salih al Fawzaan said that the one who says that the barzakhi life of the Prophet(peace be upon him) is similar to the life of the world is a liar...(in Alta'aliq al Mukhtasir of the famouse Qasida of Ibn Qayyim).

Allah knows best

[junaid123]

[QUOTE=junaid123;109281]prophet mohammad(sw) is able to hear some things which is not possible by us. take it as his(sw) miracle which is given by allah.

Sahih Muslim, Book 040, Number 6869 Narrated Ibn Shihab: These were the battles of Allah's Apostle (which he fought), and while mentioning
(the Badr battle) he said, "While the corpses of the pagans were being thrown into the well, Allah's Apostle said (to them), 'Have you found what your Lord promised true?" 'Abdullah said, "Some of the Prophet's companions said, "O Allah's Apostle! You are addressing dead people.' Allah's Apostle replied, 'You do not hear what I am saying, better than they.' ……"

Muslim :: Book 40 : Hadith 6862 Anas b. Malik reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) having said: When the servant is placed in his grave and his companions retrace their steps arid he hears the noise of the footsteps, then two angels come to him and make him sit and say to him..........

Sahih Muslim, Book 002, Number 0483
Sulaiman b. Buraida narrated on the authority of his father that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to teach them when they went out to the graveyard. One of the narrators used to say this in the narration transmitted on the authority of Abu Bakr:
"Peace be upon the inhabitants of the city (i. e. graveyard)." In the hadith transmitted by Zuhair (the words are):" Peace be upon you, the inhabitants of the city, among the believers, and Muslims, and God willing we shall join you. I beg of Allah peace for us and for you."

Syyeduna Rasoolullah said: "when ever some on send salam to saahib-e-Qabr then he replies, and if he know him in his life then he do know him after death" (Baheeqi Fee Su'Bil Iman, Ibn-e-Abi Dunya)


Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 462: Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri : Allah's Apostle said, "When the funeral is ready (for its burial) and the people lift it on their shoulders, then if deceased is a righteous person he says, 'Take me ahead,' and if he is not a righteous one then he says, 'Woe to it (me)! Where are you taking it (me)?' And his voice is audible to everything except human beings; and if they heard it they would fall down unconscious."

Sahih Muslim #220 Amr bin Aas (r.a) said. When you bury me, fill my grave well with earth, then stand around it for the time within which a camel is slaughtered and its meat is distributed so that I may enjoy your intimacy and (in your company) ascertain what answer I can give to the messengers (angels) of Allah.

brotehr bilal allready gave some comment. but ask ur personal scholar what they mean about it.


Abū Mansūr as-Sabbāgh who writes the famous narration in his book that, according to ‘Utbī,
once he was sitting beside the Prophet’s grave when a bedouin came and he said: ‘Peace be on you, O Allāh’s Messenger! I have heard that Allāh says, “(O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allāh, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allāh the Granter of repentance, extremely Merciful. ” I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins and I make you as intercessor before my Lord and I have come to you for this purpose. ’ Then he recited these verses: ‘O, the most exalted among the buried people who improved the worth of the plains and the hillocks! May I sacrifice my life for this grave which is made radiant by you, (the Prophet,) the one who is (an embodiment of) mercy and forgiveness.’ Then the bedouin went away and I fell asleep. In my dream I saw the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). He said to me: ‘O ‘Utbī, the bedouin is right, go and give him the good news that Allāh has forgiven his sins.

[Adeel]

Sahih Muslim, Book 040, Number 6869 Narrated Ibn Shihab: These were the battles of Allah's Apostle (which he fought), and while mentioning
(the Badr battle) he said, "While the corpses of the pagans were being thrown into the well, Allah's Apostle said (to them), 'Have you found what your Lord promised true?" 'Abdullah said, "Some of the Prophet's companions said, "O Allah's Apostle! You are addressing dead people.' Allah's Apostle replied, 'You do not hear what I am saying, better than they.' ……"

It was a miracle of the Prophet(peace be upon him) that Allah made them hear what he(peace be upon him) was saying. Though Hazrat Ayesha rejected this as well!!


"Ibn 'Umar related: "The Prophet (saws) stood at the edge of a well at Badr and said, "Did you find the promise of your Lord to be true?" Then he added, "Verily at this moment they hear what I am saying." Later on, is was mentioned to 'A'ishah, whereupon she commented, "What the Prophet (saws) meant was, "Now they know that what I used to tell them is the truth." Then she recited, "Verily you cannot make the dead hear,"[Surah an-Naml 27:80] up to the end of the verse."[Related authentically by al-Bukhari and others]

Muslim :: Book 40 : Hadith 6862 Anas b. Malik reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) having said: When the servant is placed in his grave and his companions retrace their steps arid he hears the noise of the footsteps, then two angels come to him and make him sit and say to him..........

This does'nt mean that they can absolutely hear.This text is not valid evidence for the general claim that the dead can hear; rather, this tradition only specifies another exception to the general rule. In this case, the deceased hears the shuffling feet of those who attended his funeral as they walk away. This is a momentary possession of the faculty of hearing which is terminated at the point at which the two questioning angels come to him.

Sahih Muslim, Book 002, Number 0483
Sulaiman b. Buraida narrated on the authority of his father that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to teach them when they went out to the graveyard. One of the narrators used to say this in the narration transmitted on the authority of Abu Bakr:
"Peace be upon the inhabitants of the city (i. e. graveyard)." In the hadith transmitted by Zuhair (the words are):" Peace be upon you, the inhabitants of the city, among the believers, and Muslims, and God willing we shall join you. I beg of Allah peace for us and for you."

This is dua. Does'nt prove that the dead hears.

Syyeduna Rasoolullah said: "when ever some on send salam to saahib-e-Qabr then he replies, and if he know him in his life then he do know him after death" (Baheeqi Fee Su'Bil Iman, Ibn-e-Abi Dunya)

Weak! Infact very weak due to the presence of Abdur Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam who is very weak. Plus it is mudtharib. The chain leading back to Ibn Abbass is also weak due to Fatima bint-e-Rayyan who is majhool. The detailed Takhrij of this hadith is already on the forum.


Allah's Apostle said, "When the funeral is ready (for its burial) and the people lift it on their shoulders, then if deceased is a righteous person he says, 'Take me ahead,' and if he is not a righteous one then he says, 'Woe to it (me)! Where are you taking it (me)?' And his voice is audible to everything except human beings; and if they heard it they would fall down unconscious."

How does this proof hearing in the grave?!

Sahih Muslim #220 Amr bin Aas (r.a) said. When you bury me, fill my grave well with earth, then stand around it for the time within which a camel is slaughtered and its meat is distributed so that I may enjoy your intimacy and (in your company) ascertain what answer I can give to the messengers (angels) of Allah.

First of all it is Mawqoof. And this also does'nt prove that he believed that the dead can hear. And also it is not proved that whether the companions acted on this wasiya of Amr bin Aas. It only shows how much worried he was due to his near end.


Abū Mansūr as-Sabbāgh who writes the famous narration in his book that, according to ‘Utbī,
once he was sitting beside the Prophet’s grave when a bedouin came and he said: ‘Peace be on you, O Allāh’s Messenger! I have heard that Allāh says, “(O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allāh, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allāh the Granter of repentance, extremely Merciful. ” I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins and I make you as intercessor before my Lord and I have come to you for this purpose. ’ Then he recited these verses: ‘O, the most exalted among the buried people who improved the worth of the plains and the hillocks! May I sacrifice my life for this grave which is made radiant by you, (the Prophet,) the one who is (an embodiment of) mercy and forgiveness.’ Then the bedouin went away and I fell asleep. In my dream I saw the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). He said to me: ‘O ‘Utbī, the bedouin is right, go and give him the good news that Allāh has forgiven his sins.
Ibn Kathīr, Tafsīr-ul-Qur’ān al-‘azīm (1:519-20).


It is really annoying when you bring narrations already refuted several times on this forum. Shaikh Muhammad bin Ahmad bin Abdul-Haadee said, “This incident as some people have mentioned and have narrated it from Utba without a chain, some narrate it from Muhammad bin Harb al-Hilaalee and some from Muhammad bin Harb from Abul-Hasan Za’afaraanee and he from the bedouin arab. Bahiqee has transmitted in Shu’bal Eemaan with a defective chain from Muhammad bin Rooh bin Yazeed Basree who said mentioned to me Abu Harb al-Hilaahee and then he mentioned the narration as above. Some liars have even raised the chain to Alee bin Abee Taalib just as will be mentioned. The summary of this incident of the bedouin is not worthy to be deduced from as evidence, its chain is defective and differing and its wording is fabricated.” (as-Saarim al Munkee pg.212)


And Allah knows best!

[junaid123]

It was a miracle of the Prophet(peace be upon him) that Allah made them hear what he(peace be upon him) was saying. Though Hazrat Ayesha rejected this as well!!



This opinion contradicts the verse and many hadith,and is not held by majority of scholars as appropriate.

Quran mentions the Prophet Salih's speech to the dead. This speech was made after his nation had been destroyed.

7:77 Then they ham-strung the she camel, and insolently defied the order of their Lord, saying: "O Salih! bring about thy threats, if thou art a messenger (of Allah)!"
7:78 So the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes in the morning!
7:79 So Salih left them, saying: "O my people! I did indeed convey to you the message for which I was sent by my Lord: I gave you good counsel, but ye love not good counsellors!"

The Prophet Shuaib's speech to the dead

7:91 But the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes before the morning!
7:92 The men who reject Shu'aib became as if they had never been in the homes where they had flourished: the men who rejected Shu'aib - it was they who were ruined!
7:93 So Shu'aib left them, saying:"O my people! I did indeed convey to you the messages for which I was sent by my Lord: I gave you good counsel, but how shall I lament over a people who refuse to believe!"

there is a hadith which says prophet mohammad(sw) urinated by standing, but in another hadiths where aisha(rd) said he(sw) never urinated by standing. which one will u accept? even the first one can be found in bukhari.

[junaid123]

It is really annoying when you bring narrations already refuted several times on this forum. Shaikh Muhammad bin Ahmad bin Abdul-Haadee said, “This incident as some people have mentioned and have narrated it from Utba without a chain, !

can u please tell me how ibn kathir(rh) judged befoer writing it? and what was his opinion? why he should write something where chain was missing?

and akhi crow is black, if u see it and also ask how is it black! i cant tell u anything more. its all depend now on ur personal understanding.

[Adeel]

junaid123;109309]can u please tell me how ibn kathir(rh) judged befoer writing it? and what was his opinion? why he should write something where chain was missing?


Subhan Allah!! So does it mean that scholar citing a incident believes that it is authentic?!! Ibn Kathir only said that it is mashur and never said it is authentic. I told you this has already been refuted. But you are determined to show ignorance.


and akhi crow is black, if u see it and also ask how is it black! i cant tell u anything more. its all depend now on ur personal understanding.

Plz stop this. If you don't have anything to write then do not write. I don't know what you mean here!

[junaid123]

Subhan Allah!! So does it mean that scholar citing a incident believes that it is authentic?!! Ibn Kathir only said that it is mashur and never said it is authentic. I told you this has already been refuted. But you are determined to show ignorance.

akhi calm down. i just asked. :)


Plz stop this. If you don't have anything to write then do not write. I don't know what you mean here!

dont take wrong akhi. i just mean it depends on our undersatnding how we take it. u gace ur understanding and me mines.

[Quratul ayn]

Al Muhnnad A'la Al Mufnad fee Aqaid Deoband.
The book Aab-e-Hayat by Qasim Nanutawi.
Can you post the scans of these two books. I dont know if perhaps my copies were distorted cause the opposite of what you claim is mentioned.

[Quratul ayn]

Adeel
I think for whatever reference you give now, rather post the scans. You seem to have amazing prints with quotes which other prints ommited.

[suhail]

Brother Junaid,

It is well known that deobandis have two major groups hayati and mamati. Hayati believe that the life of the Prophet(SAW) is same as the worldly life while the mamatis vehemently oppose it. Hayatis are the bigger group though.

JK
Suhail

[junaid123]

Brother Junaid,

It is well known that deobandis have two major groups hayati and mamati. Hayati believe that the life of the Prophet(SAW) is same as the worldly life while the mamatis vehemently oppose it. Hayatis are the bigger group though.



i am telling now for 101th time that they dont belive that this is like this world. and in past i have allready shown the fatwa of ask-imam where it says its matter of barzakh. and still waiting for some articles where they says all this things are worldly life.

can u remember akhi this post of urs:

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=63079&postcount=32

u wrote that coment without readin my comment again like this time u did brother in islam.

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=63077&postcount=31

It is the belief of the Ahlus sunnah Wal Jamaa that Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) passed away. Allah Ta’ala states, ‘You Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) will die and they will die.’ (Surah 39 Aayat29)

Ambiyaa and other chosen servants of Allah are alive in their graves. However, this life is life of the Barzakh and not of this world. The level of life in the Barzakh differs with each individual, however, the level of life in the prophets (alayhis salaam) is more than that in others.’ (Imdaadul Ahkaam vol.1 pg.342)

[Student_of_Knowledge]

Here is Mufti NawalurRahman Deobandi clearly saying that Hayat is Barzakhi.

http://www.shariahboard.org/viewfatwa.aspx?Question_ID=880

[suhail]

Well if i am wrong i do apologize. As i said there is no problem if they agree that the life of the Prophet(SAW) after death is the life of barzakh.

Jazakallah Khair
Suhail

[Adeel]

Adeel
I think for whatever reference you give now, rather post the scans. You seem to have amazing prints with quotes which other prints ommited.

I don't want to get in a debate despite of the fact that it is in that book. I cannot provide the scans now i am sorry for that but I stated many a times in my refutattions that the common deobandi is ignorant of this and I love him for that! If what you say is really the case then:

1) What is the ongoing debate between hayatis and mamaties which is witnessed in Pakistan by many?! I also provided the name of their refutations of each other.

2) If you believe that Prophet(peace be upon him) is dead then how he(peace be upon him) hears durood near his(peace be him) grave?

3) Why the article stated that the food they get is somewhat similar to that of the world?

4) If Prophet(peace be upon him) is dead and is alive in barzakh then so is everyone who has died then where is the difference instead of what Allah bestows upon the muslims' soul as comes in the hadith of sahih muslim?

5) “Sayyed Ahmad Rifa’ee visited Medina and standing in front of the grave of Rasoolullah recited few couplets asking Allah’s Messenger to bring forth his hand. Indeed, was the hand of Rasoolullah stretched from the grave and in the presence of an estimated 90 thousand visitors did Ahmad kiss it.(Fazaail-e-Aamaal, Virtues of Hajj, (Eng. Trans.), Chapter.9, story no.5, p.169, [Other similar stories are in Chapter. 9, story no.14 and 15] (New Edition 1982, Published by Dini Book Depot - Delhi).
Can you give the explanation of the above?!

6) How about the weak hadiths in the article you posted?

If you agree that the Prophet(peace be upon him) has died, neither he is aware of his nation(as this is also the belief of deobands excluding common people) and he(peace be upon him) does not hear Salam in the grave then repeat it with me:

I believe that Prophet(peace be upon him) has died, he(peace be upon him) is not aware of the conditions of this Ummah, and he(peace be upon him) does not hear the salam in the grave. I do not believe that he(peace be upon him) has gone behind the veil.

[junaid123]

I believe that Prophet(peace be upon him) has died, he(peace be upon him) is not aware of the conditions of this Ummah.

"Your deeds are presented to me. If they are good, I express my gratitude to Allah, and if the deeds are not good, then I pray to Allah for your forgiveness".

Haythami transmitted it in Majma'-uz-zawa'id (9:24) and said that that tradition had been reported by Bazzar (in his Musnad) and its sub-narrators are all of sahih (sound) hadith. 'Iraqihas confirmed the soundness of its chain of transmission in his book Tarh-ut-athrib fi sharh-it-taqrib (3:297). Ibn Sa'd has recorded it in at-Tabaqat-ul-kubra (2:194). Qadi 'Iyad has inscribed this tradiion in ashShifa (1:19); and Suyuti, recording it in al-Khasa'is-ul-kubra (2:281) and Manahil-us-sifa fi takhrij ahadith ash-Shifa (p.3) has commented that Ibn Abi Usamah in his Musnad has reproduced it through Bakr bin 'Abdullah al-Muzani and Bazzar in his Musnad who have relied on its narration by 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud with a sound chain of transmission. It has been endorsed by Khafaji and Mulla 'Ali Qari in their commentaries on ash-Shifa, i.e. Nasimur-riyad (1:102) and Sharh ash-Shifa (1:36) respectively. Hadith-scholar Ibn-ul-Jawzi has reproduced it in al-Wafa bi-ahwal-il-mustafa (2:809-10) from Bakr bin 'Abdullah and Anas bin Malik. Subki has copied this tradition in Shifa'-us-siqam fi ziyarat khayr-il-anam (p.34) from Bakr bin 'Abdullah al-Muzani and Ibn 'Abd-ul-Hadi in as-Sarim-ul-munki (p.266-7) has authenticated its veracity. Bazzar's tradition has also been recorded by Ibn Kathir in al-Bidayah wan-nihayah (4:257). 'Asqalani narrated it through Bakr bin 'Abdullah al-Muzani in al-Matalib-ul-'aliyah (4:223#3853). 'Ali al-Hindi copied Ibn Sa'd's tradition in Kanz-ul-'ummal (11:407#31903) and from Harith (#31904). Nabhani related it in Hujjatullah 'alal'alamin fi mu'jazat sayyid-il-mursalin (p.713).

*Note: Deeds are presented to Prophet Muhammad salla lahu alaihi wa sallam Is itself a proof that he is not omnipresent,nor is he seeing all the deeds from his grave, He is Informed about collective action of Ummah.For-ex Ummah had abandoned Jihad or amongst good deeds , Ummah is following Shariah laws properly etc.He does not know individual deeds.

[junaid123]

1) What is the ongoing debate between hayatis and mamaties which is witnessed in Pakistan by many?! I also provided the name of their refutations of each other.

we are not aware about it. ask them both and tell us

2) If you believe that Prophet(peace be upon him) is dead then how he(peace be upon him) hears durood near his(peace be him) grave?

sense of barzakh.

3) Why the article stated that the food they get is somewhat similar to that of the world?

mention which article u mean and also the quote it says worldly food.

4) If Prophet(peace be upon him) is dead and is alive in barzakh then so is everyone who has died then where is the difference instead of what Allah bestows upon the muslims' soul as comes in the hadith of sahih muslim?

good question. have to ask schoalrs.

[Adeel]

"Your deeds are presented to me. If they are good, I express my gratitude to Allah, and if the deeds are not good, then I pray to Allah for your forgiveness".

Haythami transmitted it in Majma'-uz-zawa'id (9:24) and said that that tradition had been reported by Bazzar (in his Musnad) and its sub-narrators are all of sahih (sound) hadith. 'Iraqihas confirmed the soundness of its chain of transmission in his book Tarh-ut-athrib fi sharh-it-taqrib (3:297). Ibn Sa'd has recorded it in at-Tabaqat-ul-kubra (2:194). Qadi 'Iyad has inscribed this tradiion in ashShifa (1:19); and Suyuti, recording it in al-Khasa'is-ul-kubra (2:281) and Manahil-us-sifa fi takhrij ahadith ash-Shifa (p.3) has commented that Ibn Abi Usamah in his Musnad has reproduced it through Bakr bin 'Abdullah al-Muzani and Bazzar in his Musnad who have relied on its narration by 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud with a sound chain of transmission. It has been endorsed by Khafaji and Mulla 'Ali Qari in their commentaries on ash-Shifa, i.e. Nasimur-riyad (1:102) and Sharh ash-Shifa (1:36) respectively. Hadith-scholar Ibn-ul-Jawzi has reproduced it in al-Wafa bi-ahwal-il-mustafa (2:809-10) from Bakr bin 'Abdullah and Anas bin Malik. Subki has copied this tradition in Shifa'-us-siqam fi ziyarat khayr-il-anam (p.34) from Bakr bin 'Abdullah al-Muzani and Ibn 'Abd-ul-Hadi in as-Sarim-ul-munki (p.266-7) has authenticated its veracity. Bazzar's tradition has also been recorded by Ibn Kathir in al-Bidayah wan-nihayah (4:257). 'Asqalani narrated it through Bakr bin 'Abdullah al-Muzani in al-Matalib-ul-'aliyah (4:223#3853). 'Ali al-Hindi copied Ibn Sa'd's tradition in Kanz-ul-'ummal (11:407#31903) and from Harith (#31904). Nabhani related it in Hujjatullah 'alal'alamin fi mu'jazat sayyid-il-mursalin (p.713).

*Note: Deeds are presented to Prophet Muhammad salla lahu alaihi wa sallam Is itself a proof that he is not omnipresent,nor is he seeing all the deeds from his grave, He is Informed about collective action of Ummah.For-ex Ummah had abandoned Jihad or amongst good deeds , Ummah is following Shariah laws properly etc.He does not know individual deeds.

None of the references you have given have their original or different Sanad! So what's the use of quoting so many references?! It is the Ignorants like Haddad practise to decieve people. The hadith is very weak.

[Adeel]

we are not aware about it. ask them both and tell us

Everyone knows what this ongoing debate is about except for ignorant tablighis who accomodate every one and are mostly unaware of Aqeedah.

sense of barzakh.

???

mention which article u mean and also the quote it says worldly food.

The article in this very topic.


And you did'nt answer the Fazail-e-Aamaal thing as usual.

[Abu Maryam PK]

Haythami transmitted it in Majma'-uz-zawa'id (9:24) and said that that tradition had been reported by Bazzar (in his Musnad) and its sub-narrators are all of sahih (sound) hadith. 'Iraqihas confirmed the soundness of its chain of transmission in his book Tarh-ut-athrib fi sharh-it-taqrib (3:297). Ibn Sa'd has recorded it in at-Tabaqat-ul-kubra (2:194). Qadi 'Iyad has inscribed this tradiion in ashShifa (1:19); and Suyuti, recording it in al-Khasa'is-ul-kubra (2:281) and Manahil-us-sifa fi takhrij ahadith ash-Shifa (p.3) has commented that Ibn Abi Usamah in his Musnad has reproduced it through Bakr bin 'Abdullah al-Muzani and Bazzar in his Musnad who have relied on its narration by 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud with a sound chain of transmission. It has been endorsed by Khafaji and Mulla 'Ali Qari in their commentaries on ash-Shifa, i.e. Nasimur-riyad (1:102) and Sharh ash-Shifa (1:36) respectively. Hadith-scholar Ibn-ul-Jawzi has reproduced it in al-Wafa bi-ahwal-il-mustafa (2:809-10) from Bakr bin 'Abdullah and Anas bin Malik. Subki has copied this tradition in Shifa'-us-siqam fi ziyarat khayr-il-anam (p.34) from Bakr bin 'Abdullah al-Muzani and Ibn 'Abd-ul-Hadi in as-Sarim-ul-munki (p.266-7) has authenticated its veracity. Bazzar's tradition has also been recorded by Ibn Kathir in al-Bidayah wan-nihayah (4:257). 'Asqalani narrated it through Bakr bin 'Abdullah al-Muzani in al-Matalib-ul-'aliyah (4:223#3853). 'Ali al-Hindi copied Ibn Sa'd's tradition in Kanz-ul-'ummal (11:407#31903) and from Harith (#31904). Nabhani related it in Hujjatullah 'alal'alamin fi mu'jazat sayyid-il-mursalin (p.713).


saying a chain is authentic does not necessarily mean the hadith itself is sahih:
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=67366&postcount=14
and
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=68525&postcount=18

[junaid123]

And you did'nt answer the Fazail-e-Aamaal thing as usual.

am i scholar taht i am here to give answers!

if u need answers then dont u go and ask scholars akhi?

[junaid123]

None of the references you have given have their original or different Sanad! So what's the use of quoting so many references?! It is the Ignorants like Haddad practise to decieve people. The hadith is very weak.

why dont u show us the different sanad? and also sanad of weak.

[junaid123]

saying a chain is authentic does not necessarily mean the hadith itself is sahih:
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=67366&postcount=14
and
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=68525&postcount=18


akhi what should i do with this hadiths? it doesnt neccessarily mean sahih but also doesnt mean weak or?

tell me akhi what should i do with such hadiths.

[Abu Maryam PK]

akhi what should i do with this hadiths? it doesnt neccessarily mean sahih but also doesnt mean weak or?

tell me akhi what should i do with such hadiths.
did u read the two posts i gave the link of? i posted them bcoz i found the narration u mentioned, only its chain was authenticated, not the text itself. if u cannot understand what i said in those link, ask again

[junaid123]

did u read the two posts i gave the link of? i posted them bcoz i found the narration u mentioned, only its chain was authenticated, not the text itself. if u cannot understand what i said in those link, ask again

can u tell me some comments of muhaddithin who talks about the text?

[junaid123]

and he(peace be upon him) does not hear Salam in the grave then repeat it with me:



Abu Hurayra from the Prophet : "Whoever invokes blessings upon me at my grave I hear him, and whoever invokes blessings on me from a far, I am informed about it."

see the difference of word. when we are near him and give salam he hear it by himself. and when we are far away like u and me then malaika bring it to him.

[junaid123]

5) “Sayyed Ahmad Rifa’ee visited Medina and standing in front of the grave of Rasoolullah recited few couplets asking Allah’s Messenger to bring forth his hand. Indeed, was the hand of Rasoolullah stretched from the grave and in the presence of an estimated 90 thousand visitors did Ahmad kiss it.(Fazaail-e-Aamaal, Virtues of Hajj, (Eng. Trans.), Chapter.9, story no.5, p.169, [Other similar stories are in Chapter. 9, story no.14 and 15] (New Edition 1982, Published by Dini Book Depot - Delhi).
Can you give the explanation of the above?!



take it as khas miracle of prophet mohammad(sw)

imam jala al din suyuti, in his treatise entitled Sharaf-e Mukhtam, has written with the sequence of authorities, reporting from shakh kamal al-din and he from shaykh shams al-din Jazri and he from shaykh Zayn al-din Maraghi and he from shaykh azz al-din Ahmed farooqi and he from his father shaykh azz al-din umar(mbuh) that he (the last named) was accompanying, in A:H: 555 , sayyid ahmed kabir rifai in the journey for hajj. when he(rifai) reached Madina and approached the holy tomb, he made a salutation in the following words: " peace be on you, O maternal grand father!" the answe came from there : " peace on u, too, O my son!" All the people present in the mosque heard this. THe asnwer cause an intense ecstasy in sayyid ahmed rifai and he went on weeping for a long time, and then, with intense desire, he submitted : O Sire! in the state of distance I used to send my soul in ur presence.Being my deputy, it used to kiss the ground before u. Now has come the turn of the body; so kindly stretch your auspicious right hand now so that my lips may kiss it.

Immediately the Prophets auspicious hand appeared with gleam and fragrance, thousends of men beheld it and sayyid rifai kissed it.

(M. Buhur, p 186)

the details of this glorious event have been reported with chain of authorities in reliable books. there is no need of doubting it, for the working of miracles by friends of GOd is proven both rationally and traditionaly; the quran and the hadith support this.THe original work is that of GOd most high and the servent is made a means of its manifestation and thus the evidence of his propinquity and popularity in the DIvine court is provided.

[suhail]

Brother Junaid,

So you believe that the incident you reported above has happenned?

I mean we were talking about the Prophet lives in barzakh. Yes the prophet(SAW) can hear our salams and that is it. Where is your proof that he can extend hands, reply from barzakh?

Is there any incident when He(SAW) talked to any sahabah after his death. Is there any incident hapenned with sahabah where he gave his hand to be kissed after his death.

You will defend anything from your books not even questioning the basic premise of the argument. Where the heck is the textual proof from Quran and Sunnah that Prophet(SAW) can reply back from his grave so that every member of the Masjid-e-nabwi can listen. How did the members knew that it was Prophet(SAW) and not someone else? Where is the proof that Prophet(SAW) can extend his hand from the grave to have it kissed? These are all fairy tales and nothing more. This is why Ahle-hadith in subcontinent are so anti-deobandi for good or for bad.

I am lost of words now because this is what all this grave worship does to people. You start with making it halal to ask the Prophet(SAW) after his death by twisting ahadith which only spoke about Salaam on Prophet(SAW). Then you went on to extend this by making new fairy tales about how Prophet(SAW) replied to people and everybody in the mosque listened and then you have Prophet(SAW) hand coming out of his grave.

What is the difference between you and barelvis in this instance? Because this is what they do. And even if Imam Suyuti reported it, does it make a ijma.

Jazakallah Khair
Suhail

[junaid123]

Brother Junaid,

So you believe that the incident you reported above has happenned?

akhi i believe nothing. sanad has allready given. believe it or not, no problem.

I mean we were talking about the Prophet lives in barzakh. Yes the prophet(SAW) can hear our salams and that is it. Where is your proof that he can extend hands, reply from barzakh?

the narrators told as it happend , how it happend u have to ask those narrators.

Is there any incident when He(SAW) talked to any sahabah after his death. Is there any incident hapenned with sahabah where he gave his hand to be kissed after his death.

i am not aware about that.

You will defend anything from your books not even questioning the basic premise of the argument.

i defend nothing and i wrote none books(u called my books). brother adeel wanted to ask about that story so i quote the story with sanad.

Where the heck is the textual proof from Quran and Sunnah that Prophet(SAW) can reply back from his grave so that every member of the Masjid-e-nabwi can listen.

its miracle . and there is none hadith which says these and those things can happen in miracle.

How did the members knew that it was Prophet(SAW) and not someone else? Where is the proof that Prophet(SAW) can extend his hand from the grave to have it kissed? These are all fairy tales and nothing more. This is why Ahle-hadith in subcontinent are so anti-deobandi for good or for bad.

Ahle hadiths can deny the sanad and the story as fairy tales. there is no harm in it.

You start with making it halal to ask the Prophet(SAW) after his death by twisting ahadith which only spoke about Salaam on Prophet(SAW).

i start nothing, brother asked and as a student i tried to bring some asnwers.

Then you went on to extend this by making new fairy tales about how Prophet(SAW) replied to people and everybody in the mosque listened and then you have Prophet(SAW) hand coming out of his grave.

brother adeel was the first one who pasted this story. i even never heard this story in my life.

What is the difference between you and barelvis in this instance?
Because this is what they do.

what do they and what do i?


And even if Imam Suyuti reported it, does it make a ijma.

its a story and not aqeedah related issue. so believe it or not, no harm.

[suhail]

It is not a story. It is surely an aqeedah related issue. This can open the door to shirk and whatnot. Are you suggesting to me that if Prophet(SAW) can respond from grave then it is not an aqeedah issue.

Secondly there are various stories with good sanad but the text of the stories are just absurd.


Secondly miracle were done by Prophet(SAW) when he was alive. This miracle you are quoting has no text to support it whatsoever.

You dodged my question. How come the people of the masjid-e-nabwi knew that the voice was of the Prophet(SAW). Have they ever heard Prophet(SAW) speaking. How can they verify it was the voice of the Prophet(SAW). Secondly how do you verify that the people in the chain of narration are trustworthy and not innovators.

Brother you are defending that story and therein lies the problem. You have no textual evidences to prove it. Never ever a sahabah narrated anything like this. Why did these kind of miracles never happened with sahabah while they are the best of the humankind and closest to the Prophet(SAW).

Why are there no ahadith or narrations of sahabah where Prophet(SAW) responded them and all the other sahabah listened to it. Why did Prophet(SAW) not extend his hand out of the gave to have a sahabah kiss his hand.

What is stopping for another version of this story to come out in which Prophet(SAW) himself came out of the grave. Well when Prophet(SAW) can extend his hand out of the grave then why cant he come out of his grave?

I say these are all absurd stories which are nothing but fairy tales. I dont deny miracles done by awliyah but those miracles happen only when they are alive and i have never ever heard of an authentic miracle like the one you are defending.

[Adeel]

Abu Hurayra from the Prophet : "Whoever invokes blessings upon me at my grave I hear him, and whoever invokes blessings on me from a far, I am informed about it."

see the difference of word. when we are near him and give salam he hear it by himself. and when we are far away like u and me then malaika bring it to him.

Either you are ignorant of the discussion or you are pretending to. This time you have made my blood boil! I already said that in the refutation of the article that Ibn Jawzi said it is "Mawdu"(fabricated) and I told you to find out yourself why because it has already been refuted several times! Now remember this for the rest of your life! The chain includes Muhammed bin Marwan Al Suddi who is Matrook and has been blamed for lying. For the intense Jarah on him see "Kitab Ad Duafa" of Imam Bukhari. Imam U'qayli said this hadith has no Asl from the hadith of Sulaiman bin Mehran Al A'mash. There is no proof whatsoever that Prophet(peace be upon him) hears the salam. Learn this and accept this.


why dont u show us the different sanad? and also sanad of weak.


The weak narrator is Abdul Majeed bin Abdul Aziz bin Abi Rawwad who has been criticized by the Muhadditheen. According to Ibn Hibban he is Matrook (Discarded). Imam Bukhari mentioned him in Book Al-Duafa. [Ref: Al-Majrooheen, Al-Duafa As-Sagheer, Al-Kamil fid Duafa]

The first part of this hadith i.e (Prophet said, There are Allah's angels who travel on land and convey to me my Ummah's Salaam.) is narrated by ten students of Sufyan Thawri and none narrated this odd part except him. Thus, even if the criticism on him is not be accepted then still this narration is Shaaz as none has followed him in this narration.
Secondly, Imam Bazzar was the only one to provide the chain for this matn and he has been criticized by the Imams for his mistakes in the chain and matn and none narrates this hadith as Marfu exceot him. The other chain is Mursal and whether the Asharia'h agree or not the mursal is weak with the majority and especially when the matter is of Aqeedah the Ihtijaj from the lone mursal really shows the worth of Asharia'h!



take it as khas miracle of prophet mohammad(sw)

imam jala al din suyuti, in his treatise entitled Sharaf-e Mukhtam, has written with the sequence of authorities, reporting from shakh kamal al-din and he from shaykh shams al-din Jazri and he from shaykh Zayn al-din Maraghi and he from shaykh azz al-din Ahmed farooqi and he from his father shaykh azz al-din umar(mbuh) that he (the last named) was accompanying, in A:H: 555 , sayyid ahmed kabir rifai in the journey for hajj. when he(rifai) reached Madina and approached the holy tomb, he made a salutation in the following words: " peace be on you, O maternal grand father!" the answe came from there : " peace on u, too, O my son!" All the people present in the mosque heard this. THe asnwer cause an intense ecstasy in sayyid ahmed rifai and he went on weeping for a long time, and then, with intense desire, he submitted : O Sire! in the state of distance I used to send my soul in ur presence.Being my deputy, it used to kiss the ground before u. Now has come the turn of the body; so kindly stretch your auspicious right hand now so that my lips may kiss it.

Immediately the Prophets auspicious hand appeared with gleam and fragrance, thousends of men beheld it and sayyid rifai kissed it.

(M. Buhur, p 186)

The matn of this incident clearly shows it is a fabrication let alone the sanad! How did the 90,000 people witnessed? When did it happen?! Why it is only to be found in this book and not other historical books? Was the Hujra capable of accomodating this crowd?
About the sanad, please tell us who those sequence of authorities are and from whom they are narrating.!!! This is a typical deobandi attitude that they try to defend everything their scholars have said even if it is a lie!!

[Adeel]

In The name Of Allah!

akhi i believe nothing. sanad has allready given. believe it or not, no problem.

So only the sanad is the only standard of judging an incident.No need for it being Sahih or free from Majhool narrators. Matn has no value?!

the narrators told as it happend , how it happend u have to ask those narrators.

Where did the 90,000 witnesses vanish.? Why never a Sahabi went for this as they had more right for this then any other person in this world!

i am not aware about that.

What are you aware about then?!?


i defend nothing and i wrote none books(u called my books). brother adeel wanted to ask about that story so i quote the story with sanad.

This is not the only one! Faazail -e-Aamaal has many. I have the right to ask anything which I find evil and if you consider these stories to be true you should prove from Quran, Sunnah and the Salaf not Sheikh Suyuti or Hafidh Ibn hajr or even Sheikhul Islam Ibn tayyimya.


its miracle . and there is none hadith which says these and those things can happen in miracle.

To judge a miracle of a person you should first see how much he is on the way of the Quran and Sunnah and the way of the Salaf. Come on you want us to believe in every miracle which only happens with Soufia?! Even Dajjal will perform miracles


Ahle hadiths can deny the sanad and the story as fairy tales. there is no harm in it.

Where it is?! Who are the sequence of narraters?!


brother adeel was the first one who pasted this story. i even never heard this story in my life.

I bet you would'nt have heard many of such stories in deobandi Nisaab. Good for you Alhamdulillah.


its a story and not aqeedah related issue. so believe it or not, no harm.

Oh Come on! now do you expect anyone to believe that the deobandi Aqeedah on this topic is the same as that of Salafi.

[junaid123]

So only the sanad is the only standard of judging an incident.No need for it being Sahih or free from Majhool narrators. Matn has no value?!

no idea akhi, ask scholar.


Where did the 90,000 witnesses vanish.? Why never a Sahabi went for this as they had more right for this then any other person in this world!

does any body says occuring such miracle with someone, become greater than sahaba? or is there any hadiths which states miracles can be also happen only with sahaba and not with others? and these and taht miracles acant be happen with otehrs if it didn´t occur with sahaba(rd)?

What are you aware about then?!?

la ilaha illallah, muhammadurr rasullullah


This is not the only one! Faazail -e-Aamaal has many. I have the right to ask anything which I find evil and if you consider these stories to be true you should prove from Quran, Sunnah and the Salaf not Sheikh Suyuti or Hafidh Ibn hajr or even Sheikhul Islam Ibn tayyimya.

tell me some quran and hadiths whcih states that such and such stories can happen and and such and such miracles cant happen. ITs not matter of fiqh , its only miracles. how can people judge miracle of ibn taymiah if its happend after 700 years when we got allready quran and sunnah!



To judge a miracle of a person you should first see how much he is on the way of the Quran and Sunnah and the way of the Salaf. Come on you want us to believe in every miracle which only happens with Soufia?! Even Dajjal will perform miracles

no doubt person must be upon sunnah and pious.

If u think miracles happen only with sufis or those people who perform miracles become a sufi, then see here some miracles of sufi ibn taymiah(rh).

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=109302&postcount=2

Sayyid ahmed Kabir rifai was a perfectly pious man, scrupulously confirming to the sunnah and an inveterate enemy of innovation. in Al-Bunyan u will get some qawl of this sheikh to read.

miracle is the fruit of conferming sunnah; no degree of perfection can be achieved without following the holy prophet(sw).

To have prophet(sw) among the sahaba were miracles for them. and they had allready seen him. where is the problem if Prophet mohammad(sw) grand son come and occurd such miracles with him, who is a pious man?


Where it is?! Who are the sequence of narraters?!

Book name has allready given.


I bet you would'nt have heard many of such stories in deobandi Nisaab. Good for you Alhamdulillah.

who cares about deobandi nisab. following quran and sunnah is enough. believing in other story or not, no harm. aqeedah is a fixed things. but what kind of miracles can hapen is not fixed. choice is urs. believe in so and so miracles or not allah will not grant u a big paradies or send u in hell.



Oh Come on! now do you expect anyone to believe that the deobandi Aqeedah on this topic is the same as that of Salafi.

which topic was it exactly? i allready mention deobandi aqeedah is everything happen in the sense of barzakh as salafis also by quoting the fatwa. but now people are dugging the situation of barzakh. how he does this in barzakh and how does he taht in barzakh.

[junaid123]

Either you are ignorant of the discussion or you are pretending to. This time you have made my blood boil! I already said that in the refutation of the article that Ibn Jawzi said it is "Mawdu"(fabricated) and I told you to find out yourself why because it has already been refuted several times! Now remember this for the rest of your life!
!!

calm down akhi. if u r here and doing something to get reward u will also get reward. no doubt.

[junaid123]

It is not a story. It is surely an aqeedah related issue. This can open the door to shirk and whatnot.

What is shirk? what kind of shirk things happend in this miracle?

Are you suggesting to me that if Prophet(SAW) can respond from grave then it is not an aqeedah issue.

miracles aren´t aqeedah issue. ALlah is for everyone, but such miracles will not occur with everyone. so how does it come as aqeedah issue?

Secondly there are various stories with good sanad but the text of the stories are just absurd.

whether is it absurd or not depends on own brain. some can accep and some cant. no problem. the miracles of prophet mohammad(sw) are yet for jews and christians absurd things(astaghfirullah).

Secondly miracle were done by Prophet(SAW) when he was alive. This miracle you are quoting has no text to support it whatsoever.

read the miracle of ibn taymiah, what is ur answer mine is also.

You dodged my question. How come the people of the masjid-e-nabwi knew that the voice was of the Prophet(SAW). Have they ever heard Prophet(SAW) speaking. How can they verify it was the voice of the Prophet(SAW). Secondly how do you verify that the people in the chain of narration are trustworthy and not innovators.

in the book nobody has said something about those viewers where are they later gone, so i also cant give u an answer from my own imagination.


Brother you are defending that story and therein lies the problem. You have no textual evidences to prove it. Never ever a sahabah narrated anything like this.

i am not defending that story. i have shown only sanad and thats all. i have nothing to do with this story.its not a hadiths and miracle. so how can sahaba mention allready hadiths about this miracle?


Why did these kind of miracles never happened with sahabah while they are the best of the humankind and closest to the Prophet(SAW).

the become best humankind by having prophet mohammad(sw) among them and by seeing him live. and verily such miracles what happend with sayyid rifai is not better than what sahaba (rd) had. and occuring some miracles doesnt means he become greater than other.


Why are there no ahadith or narrations of sahabah where Prophet(SAW) responded them and all the other sahabah listened to it. Why did Prophet(SAW) not extend his hand out of the gave to have a sahabah kiss his hand.

why they need to kiss the hand after prophet mohammad(sw) has died when tehy allready kissed in their life as he(sw) was alive?

What is stopping for another version of this story to come out in which Prophet(SAW) himself came out of the grave. Well when Prophet(SAW) can extend his hand out of the grave then why cant he come out of his grave?

ask prophet mohammad(sw) why he cant come out or ask allah why he didn´t let such miracle happen.

I say these are all absurd stories which are nothing but fairy tales. I dont deny miracles done by awliyah but those miracles happen only when they are alive and i have never ever heard of an authentic miracle like the one you are defending.

Miracles will always be out of the understading level of our mind. so if u have doubt regarding some story deny it, if u r sure then accept it. i am pushing none to accept and i also didn´t even mention this story first time.

[suhail]

Yeah but you continue to defend it. Amazing brother Junaid. Look in the mirror. You are too self contradictory. You are saying that i dont defend this and that while you keep repeating the same defensive arguments.

Do you know any of the narrators in that story? Secondly which other book contains this story since there were so many people who saw that miracle.

I am not saying it is shirk but it does open door to it. When Prophet(SAW) can hear and respond to you in person with his voice heard by the whole crowd then why cant people ask Prophet(SAW) to make dua for them. This will open door to everything.

You have the same approach as i have seen from other people. Ask Allah, Ask Scholar, then why do you keep on responding. Stop replying and i will take it as I do not know. Simple.

[Adeel]

no idea akhi, ask scholar.
So you should learn it first and stop pasting your baseless fairy tales! You have no idea of anything and still you try defend something which you are completely unaware of!


does any body says occuring such miracle with someone, become greater than sahaba? or is there any hadiths which states miracles can be also happen only with sahaba and not with others? and these and taht miracles acant be happen with otehrs if it didn´t occur with sahaba(rd)?

Miracles are not the criteria for a judging a person. You know this and you are trying to be ignorant of this! And if there is something strange which is completely against are sharia'h teachings and there is no proof therein for it then that is not a miracle infact it devil's deception! You are ignorant of the fact that calling upon the dead is against the sharia'h and you do not want to know that your sheikh of Fazail-e-Aamaal really blundered on this. And miracles are only given to person by Allah when he is alive not when he has died and his soul has departed to Allah! Then how come it is the miracle of Prophet(peace be upon him) when he has died?! Did even the Sahaba believed that he(peace be upon him) can hear us in the grave and perform miracles after his death except the ignomarous sufis!!



tell me some quran and hadiths whcih states that such and such stories can happen and and such and such miracles cant happen. ITs not matter of fiqh , its only miracles. how can people judge miracle of ibn taymiah if its happend after 700 years when we got allready quran and sunnah!

Ibn Tayyimiya was the Sheikh of Sunnah and surely he did'nt believe in the stuff that you should call upon the Prophet(peace be upon him) for anything let alone kissing the hand! He was not upon the manhaj of ignorant sufis who are completely against the sunnah and chant for their miracles! For judging a person's miracles you should first judge how much he is upon the manhaj of the Salaf and the even then his miracles should'nt be such that they are against the fitra of our religion or opposite to what our shariah teaches us! So first learn the manhaj of the salaf for this!


If u think miracles happen only with sufis or those people who perform miracles become a sufi, then see here some miracles of sufi ibn taymiah(rh).

It will only remain your dream to prove that Sheikhul Islam was a sufi! Come on wake up now!!


Sayyid ahmed Kabir rifai was a perfectly pious man, scrupulously confirming to the sunnah and an inveterate enemy of innovation. in Al-Bunyan u will get some qawl of this sheikh to read.

But still he cannot perform something which is exactly against our deen!


To have prophet(sw) among the sahaba were miracles for them. and they had allready seen him. where is the problem if Prophet mohammad(sw) grand son come and occurd such miracles with him, who is a pious man?

You are really an idiot!


Book name has allready given.

Where is the list of those sequence of narrators I asked! So should I believe whatever he quotes is authentic without paying any heed to it's matn or those se