*Breaking news* Blast by Pakistan Danish embassy

[Abiumar]

At least three people have been killed in a large blast near the Danish embassy in the Pakistani capital Islamabad, according to reports.

Witnesses reported people being carried off on stretchers. The cause of the explosion is not known.

Two nearby buildings were damaged and a large crater was created by the force of the blast, which took place at about midday local time (0600 GMT).
Residents in the area reported windows broken and a huge dark cloud of smoke.

(Source: BBC News)

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

Bomb explodes outside Danish embassy in Pakistan

By ASIF SHAHZAD

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) — A huge car bomb exploded outside the Danish Embassy on Monday, killing at least six people just weeks after an al-Qaida leader urged attacks against Denmark for newspaper caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

The blast echoed through the Pakistani capital, wounded dozens of people and left a crater more than three feet deep in the road outside the embassy's main gate. People, some bloodied, ran away in a state of panic.

Glass, fallen masonry and dozens of wrecked vehicles littered the area. A perimeter wall of the embassy collapsed and its metal gate was blown inward, but the embassy building itself remained standing, though its windows were shattered.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility, but al-Qaida No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahri recently called for attacks on Danish targets in response to the publication of caricatures in Danish newspapers depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

The bombing was the worst anti-Danish attack since the cartoons appeared in 2006.

"Denmark will not alter its policy because of a terror attack," Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen told reporters in Copenhagen. "We will not give in to terrorists."

The car bombing follows attacks by al-Qaida against the U.S. Embassy in Yemen in March and another on the Israeli Embassy in Mauritania in February, according to IntelCenter, a U.S. group that monitors al-Qaida messages.

Pakistani officials condemned Monday's blast and the new government indicated it did not want to stop talks to strike peace deals with militants in its regions bordering Afghanistan, a pursuit eyed warily by the U.S.

The government has insisted it is not talking to "terrorists" but rather militants willing to lay down their weapons.

"There is no question of any impact of this incident on the peace process, but of course it badly harmed our image in the world," said Rehman Malik, the Interior Ministry chief.

Officials said at least six people — including two policemen — were killed and 35 people were wounded in the blast.

The only foreign national reported hurt was a Brazilian woman working at the Danish Embassy. Her injuries were not serious, Brazil's Foreign Ministry said.

It was the second targeting of foreigners in the usually tranquil Pakistani capital in less than three months.

Danish Foreign Minister Per Stig Moeller said the explosion killed a Pakistani cleaner and a handyman at the embassy and injured two office workers. No Danes were reported among the victims.

Moeller said there was no way of immediately knowing the motive for the attack. He said the prophet cartoons were among several possible reasons.

Denmark faced threats at its embassies after a dozen newspapers in February reprinted a depiction of Prophet Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban. That and other images in a Danish paper sparked riots in the Muslim world in 2006.

Islamic law generally opposes any depiction of the prophet for fear it could lead to idolatry.

Moeller also said Taliban militants "who wanted to hit us because we are in Afghanistan" could be behind the blast. Denmark withdrew its troops from Iraq last year but has more than 600 soldiers in the NATO-led mission in Afghanistan.

The Norwegian and Swedish governments immediately closed their embassies. The homes of the Dutch ambassador, the Australian defense attache and the Indian ambassador, located near the Danish embassy, were damaged; No one was injured.

The U.S. Embassy urged Americans to use extra caution when traveling through Islamabad and to avoid the blast site.

Policeman Muhammad Ashraf said it appeared to be a car bomb. Someone had parked a car in front of the embassy and it exploded at around 1 p.m, he said.

Senior police officer Ahmed Latif said the car used in the bombing apparently had fake diplomatic license plates — easily identifiable in Pakistan because they are red — to get access to the street.

He said it was likely a suicide bombing but that would be determined by investigators.

Kamal Shah, a senior Interior Ministry official, said the Danish Embassy had promised to supply investigators footage from its close circuit cameras. He said investigators were trying to determine whether it was a suicide bombing, a timed bomb or detonated by remote control.

The engine of the vehicle was catapulted 100 feet. It landed in a private villa in a neighboring street.

"I was with a friend passing through a nearby street then we heard a big bang," said bystander Muhammad Akhtar. "Then we saw smoke and people running in a frenzy. We shifted at least eight or nine injured to hospitals. They all have got serious injuries. They were soaked in blood."

The office of a Pakistani development organization opposite the embassy was badly damaged. Its roof had partly collapsed.

Anjum Masood, a field operations manager for the U.N.-funded group, Devolution Trust for Community Empowerment, said dozens of its 100 employees were wounded, mostly by flying glass. His own left hand was bandaged.

He said the group had been worried about its location across from the embassy. "We tried to voice our concern that it should be moved ... We were under a lot of threat."

A plume of smoke rose above the scene of the blast and sirens wailed. The Danish flag and the EU flag were blown off their staffs and had snagged onto the first floor balcony of the main embassy building. The guard house outside the embassy was badly damaged.

Ben Venzke, CEO of IntelCenter, said the bombing was likely the work of the terror group or one of its affiliates.

He said al-Qaida laid out an extensive justification for attacks against Danish diplomatic facilities and personnel in a video last August, and repeated its threat earlier this year.

"Denmark went too far in its aggression against Muslims by repeatedly slandering the Prophet, God's peace and prayers be upon him. I urge and incite every Muslim who can harm Denmark to do so in support of the Prophet," IntelCenter quoted al-Zawahri as saying in an April 21 video.

Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir pledged Pakistan would do all it could to safeguard foreign diplomatic missions. "I think the Pakistani nation feels very ashamed today on incidents such as these," he said.

The Pakistani capital is regarded as one of the most secure cities in the country but embassies and aid agencies are likely to consider an evacuation of all but nonessential staff after the bombing.

In April, embassy personnel from the Netherlands shifted to a luxury hotel in Islamabad due to concerns following the release of a film critical of the Quran, the Islamic holy book, by a Dutch parliament member.

Monday's attack follows a bombing in March at a restaurant in Islamabad that killed a Turkish aid worker and wounded at least 12 others including at least four FBI personnel.

Taliban and al-Qaida-linked militants have launched a wave of bombings in Pakistan over the past year, mostly targeting security forces. But there has been a relative lull in violence since a new civilian government took power two months ago and began the peace talks.

The United States has expressed concerns that the peace deals will simply give the militants time to regroup and intensify attacks on U.S. and other foreign forces inside Afghanistan.

U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack called the blast "a terrible terrorist attack" and said the United States would to help the victims of the attack, including helping to relocate diplomats whose residences were destroyed.

Pakistani Muslims have staged peaceful protests this year over the Muhammad cartoons, including about 300 people in the central city of Multan on Monday.

In April, Denmark briefly evacuated staff from its embassies in Algeria and Afghanistan because of terror threats related to the Muhammad drawings.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jIE0IUn4WIiaMBpjG8SI_6H5RXzgD912208G0

[anam]

Almost Inevitable

[abumuwahid]

What shocks me is that this is the first such attack in a country like Pakistan where more than half the population actually venerate Muhammad (saas.)

Maybe these Barelwis don't have that much Gheera of our beloved Prohet(saas) after all.

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

Although our tragedy in your killing of our women and children is a very great ones, it paled when you went overboard in your unbelief and freed yourselves of the etiquettes of dispute and fighting and went to the extent of publishing these insulting drawings. This is the greater and more serious tragedy, and reckoning for it will be more severe.

In closing, I tell you: If there is no check on the freedom of your words, then let your hearts be open to the freedom of our actions.

The answer is what you see, not what you hear, and may our mothers be bereaved of us if we fail to help the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

[Brother_Mujahid]

Maybe these Barelwis don't have that much Gheera of our beloved Prohet(saas) after all.

They'd rather murder Deobandis. Even the rawafid in Iran were more pro-active in showing hatred toward those who would mock the Messenger (s.a.w).

[Nu7]

Akhi Mustafa, where is that quote from?

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

Akhi Mustafa, where is that quote from?<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MiCck0xYe-Q&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MiCck0xYe-Q&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[Abu Ma'mar]

This was obviously done to break the peace agreement between pakistan and the tribal areas.

[Sabro]

What shocks me is that this is the first such attack in a country like Pakistan where more than half the population actually venerate Muhammad (saas.)

Maybe these Barelwis don't have that much Gheera of our beloved Prohet(saas) after all.

Venerate as in idolize/worship or honor and respect?

[Salahadeen]

"Let not the hatred of a people towards you move you to commit injustice." (Quran, 5:8)

[Sabro]

This was obviously done to break the peace agreement between pakistan and the tribal areas.

Who do you suppose did this to break that peace agreement?

[Salahadeen]

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 536:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "Once while a prophet amongst the prophets was taking a rest underneath a tree, an ant bit him. He, therefore, ordered that his luggage be taken away from underneath that tree and then ordered that the dwelling place of the ants should be set on fire. Allah sent him a revelation:-- "Wouldn't it have been sufficient to burn (the) single ant (that bit you)?"

[abumuwahid]

Venerate as in idolize/worship or honor and respect?

As in praise excessively and worship.

[Sabro]

Who does this in Pakistan? Any particular groups of people?

[abumuwahid]

Who does this in Pakistan? Any particular groups of people?

The Barelwis do it.

The believe that Muhammad (saas) is alive and omnipresent in the universe.

They also make dua to him.

[Abu Ma'mar]

Who do you suppose did this to break that peace agreement?

I think its obvious.

Pakistani Taliban ending operations on Pakistani soil means more attention in Afghanistan which the u.s cant handle seeing as they are allready begging Nato to send more soldiers to Afghanistan.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Already the Musharraf regime is blaming the Pakistani Taliban (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080603/wl_afp/pakistanattacksdenmark), just as they did the Bhutto assassination. It was probably elements within the ISI who performed the attack, probably at the behest of Musharraf and\or the Americans, in order to derail negotiations with the Pakistani Taliban and embarrass the anti-Musharraf opposition, which had advocated negotiations.

[Salahadeen]

What shocks me is that this is the first such attack in a country like Pakistan where more than half the population actually venerate Muhammad (saas.)

Maybe these Barelwis don't have that much Gheera of our beloved Prohet(saas) after all.

So why are you shocked? You sound regretful that this is the first such bomb blast. Do you think that killing fellow Muslims is a sign of love for the Prophet [s]?

I believe that eight people were killed in this bomb blast, of which SEVEN of the eight were Muslims. So is this the "Jihad" you talk about?

You are a people of bloodshed.

Killing fellow Muslims...another sign of the khawaarij.

[C47]

has anyone claimed responsibilty? (not that it really matters)

interesting how this blast came so late? wen there is finally peace between Taliban and govt.

funny how drones with missile and "suicide-blasts" always conveniently show up

So why are you shocked? You sound regretful that this is the first such bomb blast. Do you think that killing fellow Muslims is a sign of love for the Prophet [s]?

I believe that eight people were killed in this bomb blast, of which SEVEN of the eight were Muslims. So is this the "Jihad" you talk about?

You are a people of bloodshed.

Killing fellow Muslims...another sign of the khawaarij.

are you declaring some members here as khawarij?

[Nu7]

The latest news is that one of the surveillance cameras was not functioning so they are having a hard time identifying the bomber. Clearly it is someone who had access to the embassy, probably Government agents.

[I_Am_A_Hermit]

The latest news is that one of the surveillance cameras was not functioning so they are having a hard time identifying the bomber. Clearly it is someone who had access to the embassy, probably Government agents.

Most definitely ISI.

[Salahadeen]

has anyone claimed responsibilty? (not that it really matters)

I am merely responding to Abu Muwahhid's post, in which he expresses regret that this is the first such bomb blast.


are you declaring some members here as khawarij?

Yes, they are neo-khawaarij.

[C47]

The latest news is that one of the surveillance cameras was not functioning so they are having a hard time identifying the bomber. Clearly it is someone who had access to the embassy, probably Government agents.

why am i not surprised

thankyou for pointing this out, akhi

now let me see, what will some say, that uber-al-qaeda-triplePhD-hackers disabled the camera system?

[C47]

I am merely responding to Abu Muwahhid's post, in which he expresses regret that this is the first such bomb blast.



Yes, they are neo-khawaarij.

so you would kill them if they were infront of you? you make takfir of these members?

[I_Am_A_Hermit]

I am merely responding to Abu Muwahhid's post, in which he expresses regret that this is the first such bomb blast.



Yes, they are neo-khawaarij.

Please refrain from labelling and generalising.
It's not a nice thing to do.

[Brother_Mujahid]

so you would kill them if they were infront of you? you make takfir of these members?

We do have a few kharij'i types on this forum, for example that those who promote Abu Maryam al-Kuwaiti or that "Dar al-Tawhid" website. Jaysh, on the other hand, seems to think that anyone who says something nice about al-Qaeda is from the khawarij, which indicates to me he probably doesn't know what the name means.

[Salahadeen]

Jaysh, on the other hand, seems to think that anyone who says something nice about al-Qaeda is from the khawarij, which indicates to me he probably doesn't know what the name means.

BM, I grow tired of your condescending attitude towards me. I know your type. I suggest you read this book by Sh. Salman Al-Oudah:

http://www.islamtoday.com/book/pitfalls/Pitfalls%20in%20the%20Quest%20for%20Knowledge%20_p roofread_.pdf

Please read page 13, which describes people like you. It is entitled "Chapter 5: Craving Novelty". I know you will react violently to this, but you really are a type of person who craves novelty, in order to look intellectual. Even the fact that you now ascribe yourself to the Shafi'i madhab is a reflection of your desire to look intellectual. In any case, your desire to look intellectual fails, and you have no reason to be condescending towards me. I guarantee you that I am more intelligent than you.

In regards to the term "khawaarij", Al-Qaeda = new khawaarij. And on this forum, we have supporters (and possibly members) of this organization, and so of course they are khawaarij too.

Anyways, I grow tired of your condescending tone. Where do you live? Do you live in America? Well, let's meet up at ISNA then, and see if you can disrespect me to my face.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Jaysh, have some humility. You act as if you know it all and are above criticism. I suggest you don't really know what the term khawarij means, a fair criticism based on your liberal application of the term, and you respond by accusing me of being condescending (psychological projection?) and suggest I am some sort of violent, vainglorious attention seeker (again, psychological projection, considering you made a big scene about leaving?).

And for the record, could you point out some of those instance where I have shown any novel ideas? While I'll freely admit to trying to present myself as an intellectual person (whether I succeed or not is an issue for debate), I cannot think of an instance where I have demonstrated any novelty. I truly wish I could, but I cannot take credit for such things.

As for ISNA, well sorry, but I wouldn't be caught dead at an ISNA convention.

[Nu7]

Akhi Salahadeen, take a deep breath and relax. I don't think Brother Mujahid was meaning to disrespect you. I don't know what kind of history you two have, but I didn't see anything that could be offensive in his post.

I agree with Brother mujahid that sometimes you are too quick to label people, which makes you and those who label you a "defeatis" or "agent" basically two sides of the same coin.

[abumuwahid]

I guarantee you that I am more intelligent than you.



Actually you are probably the biggest idiot on this forum, if not, the internet.

How you came to the conclusion from what I wrote in this thread that I support the bombing on the embassy is typical of your idiocracy.

I tend not to debate jahils like you. Not worth my time.

[I_Am_A_Hermit]

Too much animosity in this place, and lack of manners. Not a good combination.

[Nu7]

Come on ya ikhwaan, no need to get personal.

[abumuwahid]

Subhanallah, the man has called me a khariji and a terrorist lover. He has constantly defamed and insulted the Mujahideen.

The gloves are off. No mercy for people like him.

[Salahadeen]

Brother Mujahid, all I ask is that you stop with the snide and condescending comments towards me. I do not appreciate it. You do not know me in person, so please refrain from that. I've noticed it from the very beginning.

Granted, you have more Islamic knowledge than I do, and I wish to even learn from you (if you wouldn't be so condescending). Just talk to me like Sister Um Abdullah or Brother Abu Maryam talk to me. Even when they disagree with me, they say so without talking down to me.

In regards to my own adab issues, I am fine with everybody here except the crazy 'jihadist' crew. I talk to everyone who is mainstream in a very normal manner. I would appreciate the same.

And maybe I too should treat the crazy jihadist crew with better adab, but they tend to jump on me like a pack of wild dogs whenever I post. Honestly, if possible, I would reconcile with them and come to an understanding with them...I mean to say I would love to agree to disagree, and improve the way we talk to each other...but this is impossible because there are so many of them, and they have no interest in that. Only Brother Jund-al-Islam has shown initiative in that respect.

Anyways, forget it, I don't really care. I've grown immune to criticism on Islamic Awakening.

[Salahadeen]

Actually you are probably the biggest idiot on this forum, if not, the internet.

I doubt I am an idiot. There is a difference between someone having wrong views and a person being an idiot. For example, Bill Clinton had wrong views, but he was not an idiot. Rather, he was a Rhodes scholar and very intelligent.

I sincerely doubt that I am the "biggest idiot on the internet". A stretch, no? Far from it. I am very intelligent. :)

How you came to the conclusion from what I wrote in this thread that I support the bombing on the embassy is typical of your idiocracy.

Hmmm, I wonder how. (sarcasm) Let's see your post:

What shocks me is that this is the first such attack in a country like Pakistan where more than half the population actually venerate Muhammad (saas.)

Maybe these Barelwis don't have that much Gheera of our beloved Prohet(saas) after all.

So you are 'shocked' that this is the first attack, in a country that venerates the Prophet [s]. You don't see any implication there? And then you remark that perhaps they don't have gheera and that's why they never attacked before. Hmmm, is it me who is the idiot, or is it you who does not know how to convey his ideas?

[I_Am_A_Hermit]

I am sure we can all get along fine if people do not ridicule eachother.

There are bigger and better things than IA.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Brother Mujahid, all I ask is that you stop with the snide and condescending comments towards me. I do not appreciate it. You do not know me in person, so please refrain from that. I've noticed it from the very beginning.

Jaysh, I'm sorry, but your are guilty of everything you accuse me of. I merely suggested that you don't fully comprehend the term khawarij and you start to question my sincerity (accuse me of "craving novelty" and being someone who will "react violently"), and you continuously accuse me of being condescending and even make, what I see as veiled threats toward me. You act as if you are above criticism, yet you have no problem attacking, demeaning, and insulting others. Some brotherly advice, if you want to be treated with respect, then you should treat others with respect, it's a two way street.

And I'll stop here, lest the shaytan tempts me to say something I'll regret.

[abumuwahid]

I doubt I am an idiot. :


So you are 'shocked' that this is the first attack, in a country that venerates the Prophet [s]. You don't see any implication there? And then you remark that perhaps they don't have gheera and that's why they never attacked before. Hmmm, is it me who is the idiot, or is it you who does not know how to convey his ideas?

You see, it's not just that your views are wrong. It's the way it's presented that make you an idiot. Same like bush. No difference.

My statement was made to expose the hypocracy of the Barelwis, who boast about their love of the prophet(saas,) yet they do nothing to defend his honour. Brother Mujahid comprehended it like that.

[Salahadeen]

[FONT="Palatino Linotype"]Jaysh, I'm sorry, but your are guilty of everything you accuse me of.

I am certainly not guilty of trying to come across as intellectual or trying to be novel.

But yes, I am guilty of poor adab towards the crazy jihadist crew, something I already admitted.

I am guilty of bad adab with them, but have I ever been rude to you before? Certainly not.

I am rude to the crazy Jihadist crew, because they pounce on me, and it's a vicious cycle. I am at fault for letting it get to this, but I honestly don't know how to make it stop with them. That is the only reason why it continues. Otherwise, you will notice that I am courteous with everyone else aside from them.


I merely suggested that you don't fully comprehend the term khawarij


Thank you for your "suggestion". I comprehend quite well what the term means, and that is why I usually say "neo-Khawaarij". And you should know that some scholars define Khariji as someone who merely rebels against the government, regardless of what other qualities or traits they have or do not have.

and you start to question my sincerity (accuse me of "craving novelty"

Do you sincerely deny that you don't have this desire to come across as intellectual? You want to distance yourself from the more mundane 'salafis' and instead come across as novel. That is my assessment of you. Can you honestly say that there is no element of this at all in you?

what I see as veiled threats toward me.

They were not veiled. :)

You act as if you are above criticism, yet you have no problem attacking, demeaning, and insulting others.

I am certainly not above criticism. Like I told you, I take criticism quite well from respectable members like Sister Um Abdullah and Brother Abu Maryam, who have corrected me before.

Some brotherly advice, if you want to be treated with respect, then you should treat others with respect, it's a two way street.

I agree with you, but what I am telling you is that it is impossible for me to reconcile with the crazy jihadist crew. Do you really think they will ever reconcile with me? No. There are too many of them. I even tried to change my user name so that they would stop jumping on my posts, but they 'exposed' me.

So to conclude, I say: I have never been rude to you, so therefore you have no reason to be rude to me. If you use as justification my rudeness to the crazy jihadist crew, then I have already explained that I tried to change my user name to stop this back-and-forth war, but once they 'exposed' me, it was open season for them. And I am of course not a man to take insults lying down, so I respond in kind, thereby creating a vicious cycle. But my disagreement is with them, not with you.

All I ask from you is some respect and decency. That is all. :)

[Salahadeen]

You see, it's not just that your views are wrong. It's the way it's presented that make you an idiot. Same like bush. No difference.

My statement was made to expose the hypocracy of the Barelwis, who boast about their love of the prophet(saas,) yet they do nothing to defend his honour. Brother Mujahid comprehended it like that.

You can't even spell hypocrisy and you are calling *me* an idiot.

[AbiSalahuddin]

Salahadeen, you make the blood of the 'crazy jihadist crew' halal and arguably make takfir on them. This is why they get angry at you.

You do not realise, perhaps, that their insinuations on you are nowhere near as harsh and on par with yours. They still treat you as a Muslim, albeit harshly, in line with Shaikh al-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah's statement. A Muslim is to another Muslim:

‘Like the two hands, one washes the other, and it is possible that the removal of dirt would, at times, require scrubbing. But its objective is to be praised, because the intent is the preservation of the well-being of both hands and their cleanliness, And we do not seek on any instance, on these occasions to allow the complete Bara’ah of them, because the Muslim’s right of his brother is the right of Walaa, which is not cut off (completely) except due to apostasy.’

So compare the magnitude of what you do to that which they do.

[Um Abdullah M.]

bro salahadeen, calm down
you can get ur point across without insulting others or attacking their person.
no need to label others, like khawarij and such, we should try to discuss the beliefs and ideology, and avoid labeling others, because it is of no benefit.


and an advice to all of us: review ur posts several times before posting it, and ask yourself if what you wrote is necessary or not, if it has any benefit or not, if it pleases Allah or not.

[Hamza]

I guarantee you that I am more intelligent than you
.

LOL,

Quote of the week, in the Idiot section mind you :)

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

Denmark: Al-Qaida likely behind bomb in Pakistan

By ASIF SHAHZAD

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) — Denmark's intelligence service cast blame on al-Qaida for an attack near its embassy in Pakistan that investigators said Tuesday was carried out by a suicide bomber.

No one has claimed responsibility for the car bomb, which killed six people. But Danish authorities said the terror network or one of its affiliates was likely behind the explosion, which came just weeks after the terrorist group threatened Denmark over caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad reprinted earlier this year in newspapers in that country.

"It is (the Danish Security and Intelligence Service's) assessment that al-Qaida or an al-Qaida-related group likely is behind the attack," said Jakob Scharf, director of the agency. He added that "a series of other militant Islamic groups and networks in Pakistan also could have the intention and the capacity to hit Danish targets in Pakistan."

A team of Pakistani investigators sifted through the rubble at the scene of the explosion in a leafy neighborhood of Islamabad where security is supposed to be tight. Danish experts were expected to join them.

"I think we can say with a reasonable degree of confidence that it was a suicide attack," Tariq Pervez, director general of the Federal Investigation Agency told The Associated Press.

That conclusion could strengthen suspicions al-Qaida or an associated group was involved.

Pervez said the bomb, containing about 55 pounds of explosives, was similar to that used in a suicide bombing in the eastern city of Lahore in March.

Authorities have provided no results of the investigation into that attack, and Pervez declined to discuss who might have been responsible for Monday's blast.

But the Danish intelligence agency said in a statement late Monday that the embassy was probably the target.

The explosion wounded at least 35 people, left a deep crater on the road outside the embassy, severely damaged the nearby office of a development group and devastated trees and cars. The embassy building remained standing, though its windows were shattered.

The six dead include two Pakistani policemen, a cleaner and a handyman employed by the embassy. One was Pakistani-born with a Danish passport, the Foreign Ministry in Copenhagen said.

Senior city police officer Ahmed Latif said the attacker used a stolen car with a fake diplomatic license plate to get past security near the embassy. He said several people were being questioned about the ownership of the car, but they were not regarded as suspects. No one has been arrested, he added.

Denmark has faced threats at its embassies following the reprinting in February by about a dozen newspapers of a cartoon that depicted Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban. That and other images in a Danish paper sparked riots in the Muslim world in 2006.

Denmark's Berlingske Tidende daily lashed out at Pakistan in a comment titled "Pakistan's poor security."

"We have simply trusted the Pakistanis' ability to protect us too much," it said.

The explosion could heighten pressure on Islamabad to stop striking peace deals with militants in the border regions, where al-Qaida and Taliban fighters are believed to have found sanctuary.

Pakistan insists it is not talking to "terrorists" but rather militants willing to lay down their weapons. But the U.S. has warned the deals could simply give militants time to rebuild strength.

Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said in a statement Monday the blast would "redouble our resolve" to "continue on our avowed path to fight terrorism and extremism." Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik said the attack would not affect the peace talks.

Ben Venzke, CEO of IntelCenter, a U.S. group that monitors al-Qaida messages, said the terror group called for attacks against Danish diplomatic facilities and personnel in a video last August, and repeated its threat in April.

"I urge and incite every Muslim who can harm Denmark to do so in support of the Prophet, God's peace and prayers be upon him, and in defense of his honorable stature," IntelCenter quoted al-Qaida No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahri as saying in an April 21 video.

But analysts said it was possible groups other than al-Qaida who also were angry about the cartoons could be behind the blast. Islam generally forbids any depiction of the prophet, even positive, for fear it could lead to idolatry.

Mahmood Shah, a former security chief for the tribal regions, said al-Qaida attacks tend to be more lethal. He said that if the attack was a suicide bombing, it likely originated in the unruly border regions.

Even if the attack isn't linked to the tribal regions, the U.S. and the West "will use this ... to say look, your policy (on peace deals) is not working," analyst Talat Masood said.

Monday's attack follows a bombing in March at a restaurant in Islamabad that killed a Turkish aid worker and wounded at least 12 others, including at least four FBI personnel.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jIE0IUn4WIiaMBpjG8SI_6H5RXzgD912MQR00

[Salahadeen]

Al-Qaeda killing Muslims. They really do want to shift to fit the role of the Khawaarij more and more.

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

Al-Qaeda killing Muslims. They really do want to shift to fit the role of the Khawaarij more and more.Can you link me to their claim of responsibility ?
Thanks.

[Nu7]

The Qaeda had nothing to do with this. Had it been them, they would not shy away from taking responsibility.

[Salahadeen]

Can you link me to their claim of responsibility ?
Thanks.

OK I thought you posted that article because you agree with it and were boasting of the act. You should next time clarify that you disagree with it.

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

Well, I'm not going to go out of my way and declare that I am against such and such to please you. Sorry.
I don't have it programmed in me like an Apologist Robot 3000.

[abumuwahid]

The six dead include two Pakistani policemen, a cleaner and a handyman employed by the embassy. One was Pakistani-born with a Danish passport, the Foreign Ministry in Copenhagen said


These policemen defended an embassy of a government who fights Islam and the Muslims and who defends the right of its people to insult our Prophet(saas.)

These policemen enforced kufr laws on the Muslims of Pakistan.

Yet they are called Muslims?

Only a person with a corrupted aqeedah can say something like this.

May Allah us from those who have no gheerah for our Prophet (saas.)

[Abiumar]

Al-Qaeda killing Muslims. They really do want to shift to fit the role of the Khawaarij more and more.

Could you share with us which source of information told you it is the work of al-Qaida..?

Or do you simply jump on the bandwagon like a fool who loses his intellect and ability to think rationally during times like this!?

You remind me of how quick the american government was to blame Shaykh Usama after the oklahoma bombing but later discovered it was the work of a ''domestic terrorist.''

You really do need to hold that tongue of yours - for it will be questioned by Allah subhanahu.

[Magoo]

.
I don't have it programmed in me like an Apologist Robot 3000.

i think this is definately the quote of the week :D

[Salahadeen]

Well, I'm not going to go out of my way and declare that I am against such and such to please you. Sorry.
I don't have it programmed in me like an Apologist Robot 3000.

The Quran commands us to enjoin the good and forbid the evil.

The Prophet [s] said:

"Whoever amongst you sees anything objectionable, let him change it with his hand, if he is not able, then with his tongue, and if he is not even able to do so, then with his heart, and the latter is the weakest form of faith."

[Salahadeen]

These policemen defended an embassy of a government who fights Islam and the Muslims and who defends the right of its people to insult our Prophet(saas.)

These policemen enforced kufr laws on the Muslims of Pakistan.

Yet they are called Muslims?

Only a person with a corrupted aqeedah can say something like this.

May Allah us from those who have no gheerah for our Prophet (saas.)

So they are kaafiroon, hmmm??

I think we found a Khariji, ladies and gentlemen.

[abumuwahid]

So they are kaafiroon, hmmm??

I think we found a Khariji, ladies and gentlemen.

Not only were they kafiroon, they were BIG KAFIROON. They will burn in hell forever.

Your takfeer of me is baseless and will come back to you, so fear Allah and make tawbah.

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

i think this is definately the quote of the week :Dhttp://www.upload2world.com/pic89/upload2world_25175.gif (http://www.upload2world.com)


Do I like get a glittered sticker ...
Sorry you didn't like the joke Jaysh.

[Salahadeen]

Not only were they kafiroon, they were big KAFIROON. They will burn in hell forever.

Your takfeer of me is baseless and will come back to you, so fear Allah and make tawbah.

It is YOU who has done takfeer. You are the one who has said 'so-and-so' are 'kafiroon' and 'will burn in hell forever'.

I called you a khariji. This is NOT takfeer.

I want to make this clear, because I am sick of people everywhere accusing me of doing takfeer.

The khawaarij differ in rank. Some of them are Muslims (albeit deviated and misguided), whereas some are kufaar. Therefore, I made no statement on you being a Muslim or not.

Gibril Hadad explains how calling someone a khariji is NOT doing takfeer on them:

http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e49.html

Read this part:


And the definition of Khawaarij is "A large, powerful group of *Muslims* whose IJTIHAD brings them out of the obedience of the Khalifa and in armed hostility against him and the Muslims."

To conclude, it is YOU who did takfeer of Muslims, and it is YOU who will answer to that. Whereas I merely said you belong to a deviant sect, who may or may not be Muslim/kaafir.

[abumuwahid]

It is YOU who has done takfeer. You are the one who has said 'so-and-so' are 'kafiroon' and 'will burn in hell forever'.




It is an act of kufr to enforce kufr laws.
It is an act of kufr to defend the embassies of the Tawagheet who are fighting Islam and the Muslims.

Do you not know this? Subhanallah. What you need is a lecture, not a debate. In fact you need rehab.

Had I made takfeer of the cleaner and the handyman, then perhaps you would've had a reason to call me a khariji. At the very least these people were sinners and extremely foolish because they knew the embassy was under threat. I

But I made takfeer only of the policemen who WERE making kufr.

So call me khariji if that is your desire, but know that what you are doing is baseless, it is a mockery of the deen and you will be held accountable for this.

[walid]

Salahadeen (mr anti-extremist pro kaffar guy) your truely making a fool of yourself why don't you go and join the american marines they'll agree with your views 100%..we can all see who the dog of hell is!!

[abumuwahid]

Gibril Hadad explains how calling someone a khariji is NOT doing takfeer on them:

http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e49.html



You call me a deviant and then you refer me to a website of a deviant.

Have you no sense?

Is this who you are following?

No wonder you are so misguided.

[Salahadeen]

So call me khariji if that is your desire

OK thanks. I will. You khariji.

Salahadeen (mr anti-extremist pro kaffar guy)

LOL you extremists are so funny...so just because I oppose terrorism, I am somehow pro-'kaffar' [sic] ?

This is a logical fallacy.

why don't you go and join the american marines they'll agree with your views 100%..we can all see who the dog of hell is!!

So anyone who opposes terrorism must necessarily be an American marine? lol your logic is amazing...and pathetically desperate.

I oppose terrorists/extremists, and I also oppose the Zionists and Crusaders. I am going to have my cake and eat it too. :)

You terrorist lovers have a very simplistic way of looking at things.

You call me a deviant and then you refer me to a website of a deviant.


lol you are getting very desperate. :)

I am of course not a supporter of Gibril Hadad. However, his site came up easily from a google search. The truth is the truth, no matter who says it. I was merely showing you that calling you a khariji does not mean doing takfeer of you, and I think I've proved that point sufficiently.

So now you are left foaming at the mouth.

By the way, are you a scrub?

[abumuwahid]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by abumuwahid http://forums.islamicawakening.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?p=110376#post110376)
So call me khariji if that is your desire
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

OK thanks. I will. You khariji.


How shameful. You judge people acording to your hawa, rather than Quran and Sunnah.

Now tell me me.

Is it kufr or not to enforce kufr laws?
Is it kufr or not to defend the tawagheet who fight Allah, His Messenger, Islam and the Muslims?

[intheheartofgreenbirds]

Could you share with us which source of information told you it is the work of al-Qaida..?

maybe his fellow mi5 work colleague's

Salahadeen (mr anti-extremist pro kaffar guy) your truely making a fool of yourself why don't you go and join the american marines they'll agree with your views 100%..we can all see who the dog of hell is!!

Brother please dont put ideas in this idiots head, he doesnt seem too stable.

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh everyone,

brother Abumuwahid, an act of kufr is one thing, a kafir is another. Please abstain from judging people and taking them out of the fold of Islam for your own good, I do not believe that Allah has given you the authority nor the knowledge of what is in chests of His servants. If you are right and those whom you take out of the fold of Islam are truly kuffar, it has not benefited you at all, it has only consumed your time which you could have used wisely for other efforts which will benefit you both in dunya and akhirah. If on the other hand you were wrong and injusted Muslims, it is a sin for which you will no doubt be questioned about, so why gamble with your akhirah? I do not say this to "start" anything, only my wishing for you what I wish for myself and this is a sincere advice, who is right and who is wrong does not matter.

It is amazing to me that so many people on this forum in almost every single thread engage in personal insults, takfir, profane language, etc etc, yet claim to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. We skip over the basics of Islam which if implemented would bring so much khayr only to engage in debates which in the end instead of bringing benefit turn into causes of sin on all sides.

Allah azza wa jal orders us to save ourselves and our families from the Hellfire, so why has it become so easy for many of us to point the finger at another while not taking a closer look at ourselves??? Let us focus on that which will benefit us in both worlds, especially akhirah, focus on that which we know Allah will question us about.

Please remember Allah and His Messenger salallahu alayhi wa sallam before and during each and every post, I ask you this for the sake of Allah azza wa jal.

[C47]

see .... that is why I told you to stop calling members khawarij

you have to learn how to communicate


In regards to my own adab issues, I am fine with everybody here except the crazy 'jihadist' crew. I talk to everyone who is mainstream in a very normal manner. I would appreciate the same.


mashaAllah, you are fine even with the ones poisioning the Ummah with SHirk and bida't

you dont know jack about AQ and you call them Khawarij and that too based on news from Kufr media. plz stop it.

whats wrong with you? im surprised you take islamic knowledge from a grave-worshipper like GF Haddad

[C47]

Is it kufr or not to enforce kufr laws?
Is it kufr or not to defend the tawagheet who fight Allah, His Messenger, Islam and the Muslims?

these are very general questions Salahedeen, how about you answer them?

[y-mughal]

And the definition of Khawaarij is "A large, powerful group of *Muslims* whose IJTIHAD brings them out of the obedience of the Khalifa and in armed hostility against him and the Muslims."

Could you insha'Allah point out to us specifically where Brother abumuwahid and others who you label as Khariji have gone out of the obedience of the Khalifah in armed hostility against him and the Muslims as mentioned in the 'fatwa' extract above. You also forgot to mention the other parts of the 'fatwa' where you took the above extract from since it's pertinent to calling a person a Kaafir or not -

Why did not Sulayman ibn `Abd al-Wahhab in the long fatwa he gave against his brother's views, titled Fasl al-Khitab - also known as al-Sawa`iq al-Ilahiyya - not declare the Wahhabis kafir but only as innovators?

Why did not Ibn `Abidin in his Hashiya label the Wahhabis as Kafir but instead said they are disobedient and similar to Khawaarij?

Why did not al-Sawi in his Hashiya label the Wahhabis as Kafir but instead said they are disobedient rebels similar to the Khawaarij?

Did Sayyid `Alawi al-Haddad of Tarim who wrote *Refutation of the Najdi Innovator* in 1802 or any of the Ahl al-Bayt in the Hijaz, al-Ahsa', and Hadramawt in all their books against the Wahhabiyya call them kafir?

Honestly your ignorance is astonishing firstly you shoot yourself in the foot (not for the first time) by your definition of the Khawaarij and secondly by quoting from an article whose main focus apparently seems to deem the Dawah of ibn Abdul Wahhab as rebellious/Khaariji/innovatory. You need to do some elementary reading on the Khawaarij instead of following your desires and coming up with a DIY definition. It seems your extreme defeatism is consuming you from within - being on the verge of self-destruction as is apparent from your unstable posts - as we know the extremists are perished/destroyed. May Allah (swt) guide you and hasten your recovery.


I do not believe that Allah has given you the authority nor the knowledge of what is in chests of His servants.

We judge by the apparent since the revelation stopped descending.

[Nu7]

Apparently the car that was used in the attack belongs to a (former?) Government agent, according to Danish news reports.

[abumuwahid]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh everyone,

brother Abumuwahid, an act of kufr is one thing, a kafir is another. Please abstain from judging people and taking them out of the fold of Islam for your own good, I do not believe that Allah has given you the authority nor the knowledge of what is in chests of His servants. If you are right and those whom you take out of the fold of Islam are truly kuffar, it has not benefited you at all, it has only consumed your time which you could have used wisely for other efforts which will benefit you both in dunya and akhirah. If on the other hand you were wrong and injusted Muslims, it is a sin for which you will no doubt be questioned about, so why gamble with your akhirah? I do not say this to "start" anything, only my wishing for you what I wish for myself and this is a sincere advice, who is right and who is wrong does not matter.



Wa Alaykkum As Salam Wa Rahamtullahi Wa Barakatuh Ukhti

Jazakallahu Kheir for the advice but unfortunately I have to disagree.

Please read this Article (http://www.en.altartosi.com/questions1.htm#Can%20any%20one%20make%20Takfeer%20 or%20is%20it%20just%20for%20the%20Ulema) about takfeer. Insha Allah you will benefit from it.

There is immense benefit in takfeer. Through it our deen is preserved and our ranks are purified. Without it our situation is dire and each and every ruthless tyrant and deviant is left alone to distort Allah's deen.

It is because of the takfeer that Abu Bakr(RA) made on the tribes that all the efforts of Muhammad(saas) and the Muslims were consilidated and the stage was set for the expansion of the Islamic State.

So no, your advice, as sincere as it is, is incorrect. May Allah guide you to the haq.

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Wa alaykum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Brother Abumuwahid, I am not going to engage in a debate about takfir. It has its' place in Islam however it is not for everyone to proclaim takfir on people. Thank you for the article, may Allah bless you, I will read it soon insha'Allah. Ameen to the dua, but do you see how quickly you judge people? Apparently you concluded I am not upon haqq from a few words I have written here, may Allah bless you.

The advice was just that-an advice, not a lecture about takfir. Thus you are free to accept it or reject it, may Allah bless you.

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

We judge by the apparent since the revelation stopped descending.


I see what you mean brother, respectfully however, this statement/athar can not be used to justify hastiness in takfir.

[abumuwahid]

I do not believe that Allah has given you the authority nor the knowledge of what is in chests of His servants.

An Nisa : 76 - Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allâh, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Tâghût So fight you against the friends of Shaitân; Ever feeble indeed is the plot of Shaitân .


As Salamu Alaykum Ukhti

Remember that I made takfeer on two policemen who were defending the Taghut Danish Embassy. Need I remind you that the Danish government defended the right of its people to insult our beloved Prophet Muhammad (saas.) Need I remind you that the Danish Army were fighting Allah's servants in Iraq and who are now fighting Allah's servants in Afghanistan.

How on earth could you say that those policemen were serving Allah. How?

[abumuwahid]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Wa alaykum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Brother Abumuwahid, I am not going to engage in a debate about takfir. It has its' place in Islam however it is not for everyone to proclaim takfir on people. Thank you for the article, may Allah bless you, I will read it soon insha'Allah. Ameen to the dua, but do you see how quickly you judge people? Apparently you concluded I am not upon haqq from a few words I have written here, may Allah bless you.

The advice was just that-an advice, not a lecture about takfir. Thus you are free to accept it or reject it, may Allah bless you.

As Salamu Alaykum Ukhti

Sorry, I meant haq in this matter. My mistake. I apologise once again.

I do not rush to judge people. It saddens me that you say those things about me.

May He whom you invoke to bless me, bless you too.

Ameen.

[Ghulam al-Islam]

Brothers and sisters!!!

What is this? Are all forums filled with personal attacks? Can we Muslims not get along amongst each other? What will we learn from each other if this is how we treat one another? How do we demand respect from the outside world when we disrespect ourselves? What will our young children with internet access who are eager to learn about his/her Muslim brothers/sisters and community learn if they come across this type of attacks? I think I'll be adding this forum to the list of website lists my kids may not view. I want my children to learn the fact that as Muslims we are 'brothers' and 'sisters.'

Also...shouldn't personal attacks be done via PM. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what PM is meant for? Pickle-sticks!!! Now I have to decide whether I want to participate in fora full of personal attacks. We all know that if you hang out with a rotten apple you will start to stink too after a while. Decisions-decisions....

Perhaps IA should adopt the following policy:

Please treat all other forum members with respect and do not use the forum to threaten, harass, stalk, or abuse other members. Treat other forum members as you would like to be treated. Don't attack others in any manner or form. The forum implements a strict No Takfir Policy. No member here is in such a position of authority that they can pronounce another muslim anathema. Personal attacks on others of this nature will not be tolerated.

Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully, without insult and personal attack. Personal attacks, slurs, and profanity in any and all interactions are forbidden. Address issues, not people. Repeated offense will result in permanent loss of forum privileges.

Harassment includes but is not limited to sending mass PMs, confrontational posts with malicious intent, stalking other members, and anything that could be construed as harassment.

The Understanding Islam forums are a large, diverse community. Please realize other posters are likely to hold different opinions than you. Since we embrace diversity, any attacks or hateful speech regarding race, religion, or sexual preference will not be tolerated, and repeat offenders will be sanctioned accordingly.

wasalaama

[Ghulam al-Islam]

In regards to the actual thread 'Danish embassy bombing,' it's a tragedy. I believe all 8 people killed were Muslims. Have you guys noticed that the majority of people killed in jihad are Muslims not the kuffar?

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Assalamu alaykum noble brother in Islam,

An Nisa : 76 - Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allâh, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Tâghût So fight you against the friends of Shaitân; Ever feeble indeed is the plot of Shaitân .


As Salamu Alaykum Ukhti

Remember that I made takfeer on two policemen who were defending the Taghut Danish Embassy. Need I remind you that the Danish government defended the right of its people to insult our beloved Prophet Muhammad (saas.) Need I remind you that the Danish Army were fighting Allah's servants in Iraq and who are now fighting Allah's servants in Afghanistan.

How on earth could you say that those policemen were serving Allah. How?

I will remind you of the hadith found in sahih Al Bukhari, under the chapter "The book of Jihad", narrated by 'Ubaydullah ibn Abi Rafi ra:

"I heard 'Ali saying, "Allah's Apostle sent me, Az-Zubair and Al-Miqdad somewhere saying, 'Proceed till you reach Rawdat Khakh. There you will find a lady with a letter. Take the letter from her.' " So, we set out and our horses ran at full pace till we got at Ar-Rawda where we found the lady and said (to her). "Take out the letter." She replied, "I have no letter with me." We said, "Either you take out the letter or else we will take off your clothes." So, she took it out of her braid. We brought the letter to Allah's Apostle and it contained a statement from Hatib bin Abi Balta a to some of the Meccan pagans informing them of some of the intentions of Allah's Apostle. Then Allah's Apostle said, "O Hatib! What is this?" Hatib replied, "O Allah's Apostle! Don't hasten to give your judgment about me. I was a man closely connected with the Quraish, but I did not belong to this tribe, while the other emigrants with you, had their relatives in Mecca who would protect their dependents and property . So, I wanted to recompense for my lacking blood relation to them by doing them a favor so that they might protect my dependents. I did this neither because of disbelief not apostasy nor out of preferring Kufr (disbelief) to Islam." Allah's Apostle, said, "Hatib has told you the truth." Umar said, O Allah's Apostle! Allow me to chop off the head of this hypocrite." Allah's Apostle said, "Hatib participated in the battle of Badr, and who knows, perhaps Allah has already looked at the Badr warriors and said, 'Do whatever you like, for I have forgiven you."

Noble brother in Islam, may Allah bless you, this is just a small example from many of the examples set by the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, in this case pertaining not to haste with concluding a judgement upon individuals, specifically without carefully looking into their case. This is why I say we laymen do not have the authority nor proper knowledge to deduce such judgements, by Allah it is a serious matter noble brother.

I read the article you presented to me, may Allah bless you, and still could not find that you are acting in accordance with the article itself. Akhi by Allah I do not share your views in this matter and I hope that by the Mercy of Allah you will not attribute kufr to me as well, may Allah bless you, although it will insha'Allah not harm me if it is so done.

A wise brother, may Allah reward him immensely, wrote an article once on the issue of the danish cartoons and said some things in it which call for us to reflect on ourselves, if you are interested you may read it here (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-.iL1jPA0d6mnZ2uTatEzn4ynXCM-?cq=1&p=5)

Jazakom Allah khayr

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


As Salamu Alaykum Ukhti

Sorry, I meant haq in this matter. My mistake. I apologise once again.

I do not rush to judge people. It saddens me that you say those things about me.

May He whom you invoke to bless me, bless you too.

Ameen.

Wa alaykum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh brother,

No worry akhi, I do not claim to be upon the haqq anyway, may Allah save me from arrogance, I ask Allah to guide me to the right path all the time. So I offer sincere apologies if I offended you in any way, but it is the impression I got from some of your comments, that you are quick to judge, so I ask Allah and then you to forgive me if I am guilty of the same. I mean you nor anyone else here any harm, may Allah bless you immensely.

Allahumma ameen.

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Assalamu alaykum brother Ghulam al-Islam,


Brothers and sisters!!!

What is this? Are all forums filled with personal attacks? Can we Muslims not get along amongst each other? What will we learn from each other if this is how we treat one another? How do we demand respect from the outside world when we disrespect ourselves? What will our young children with internet access who are eager to learn about his/her Muslim brothers/sisters and community learn if they come across this type of attacks? I think I'll be adding this forum to the list of website lists my kids may not view. I want my children to learn the fact that as Muslims we are 'brothers' and 'sisters.'

Also...shouldn't personal attacks be done via PM. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what PM is meant for? Pickle-sticks!!! Now I have to decide whether I want to participate in fora full of personal attacks. We all know that if you hang out with a rotten apple you will start to stink too after a while. Decisions-decisions....

Perhaps IA should adopt the following policy:

Please treat all other forum members with respect and do not use the forum to threaten, harass, stalk, or abuse other members. Treat other forum members as you would like to be treated. Don't attack others in any manner or form. The forum implements a strict No Takfir Policy. No member here is in such a position of authority that they can pronounce another muslim anathema. Personal attacks on others of this nature will not be tolerated.

Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully, without insult and personal attack. Personal attacks, slurs, and profanity in any and all interactions are forbidden. Address issues, not people. Repeated offense will result in permanent loss of forum privileges.

Harassment includes but is not limited to sending mass PMs, confrontational posts with malicious intent, stalking other members, and anything that could be construed as harassment.

The Understanding Islam forums are a large, diverse community. Please realize other posters are likely to hold different opinions than you. Since we embrace diversity, any attacks or hateful speech regarding race, religion, or sexual preference will not be tolerated, and repeat offenders will be sanctioned accordingly.

wasalaama

May Allah reward you immensely for this post, and I second your suggestions for forums policy, and I will just have to agree to disagree with some of the policies of this forum although I am a (new) member.

But, erm , brother Abumuwahid has not been disrespectful towards me personally in any way, and I hope to have treated him with respect as well insha'Allah.

Other then that yes tempers often seem to flare up on this forum, but many members here are showing good manners and diplomacy masha'Allah, and I wish to see more of it insha'Allah.

Anyway, I just wanna say jazakom Allah khayran for your beneficial comment.

[abumuwahid]

In regards to the actual thread 'Danish embassy bombing,' it's a tragedy. I believe all 8 people killed were Muslims. Have you guys noticed that the majority of people killed in jihad are Muslims not the kuffar?

Can you substantiate this statement of yours with actual figures?

Does anybody know where "Saladeen" disappeared to?

[y-mughal]

A wise brother, may Allah reward him immensely, wrote an article once on the issue of the danish cartoons and said some things in it which call for us to reflect on ourselves, if you are interested you may read it here (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-.iL1jPA0d6mnZ2uTatEzn4ynXCM-?cq=1&p=5)

It would appear he is anything but wise and very Jaahil with regards to this article. With regards to blasphemy and the companions (may Allah (swt) be pleased with them) he states -

what did the companions do and how did they react!!! they didn't go to protest or condemned such acts. they were too busy with something else. They were busy buidling Islam by preparing a generation who follows Quran and Sunnah with every small detail. therefore, Allah granted them the strntgh, the comfort and made them victorious.

In other words he is trying to say the companions didn't react directly or do anything directly towards those who blasphemed the Prophet (saw). I mean how ignorant can you get? What about the mission of Muhammad bin Maslamah (ra) et al and the killing of the Taghoot Ka'b ibn Al-Ashraf? What of the killing of Abu Rafi'? How about the killing of Ibn Khatal and his two slavegirls? What about the man who used to curse the Prophet (saw) and the Prophet (saw) sent Khalid (ra) to kill him? Uqba ibn Abi Mu'ayt and an-Nadr ibn al-Harith were killed for cursing the Prophet (saw) weren't they? What of az-Zubayr (ra) killing a man who cursed the Prophet (saw)? What about the blind man killing his female slave? What about the killing of the women from Khatma who satirised the Prophet (saw)? There are many more examples of how our Salaf dealt with those who blasphemed the Prophet (saw) - ignoramuses like the one who wrote that article are nothing but individuals distorting the Shari'ah and our glorious heritage. May Allah (swt) guide him.

[abumuwahid]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Assalamu alaykum noble brother in Islam,



I will remind you of the hadith found in sahih Al Bukhari, under the chapter "The book of Jihad", narrated by 'Ubaydullah ibn Abi Rafi ra:

"I heard 'Ali saying, "Allah's Apostle sent me, Az-Zubair and Al-Miqdad somewhere saying, 'Proceed till you reach Rawdat Khakh. There you will find a lady with a letter. Take the letter from her.' " So, we set out and our horses ran at full pace till we got at Ar-Rawda where we found the lady and said (to her). "Take out the letter." She replied, "I have no letter with me." We said, "Either you take out the letter or else we will take off your clothes." So, she took it out of her braid. We brought the letter to Allah's Apostle and it contained a statement from Hatib bin Abi Balta a to some of the Meccan pagans informing them of some of the intentions of Allah's Apostle. Then Allah's Apostle said, "O Hatib! What is this?" Hatib replied, "O Allah's Apostle! Don't hasten to give your judgment about me. I was a man closely connected with the Quraish, but I did not belong to this tribe, while the other emigrants with you, had their relatives in Mecca who would protect their dependents and property . So, I wanted to recompense for my lacking blood relation to them by doing them a favor so that they might protect my dependents. I did this neither because of disbelief not apostasy nor out of preferring Kufr (disbelief) to Islam." Allah's Apostle, said, "Hatib has told you the truth." Umar said, O Allah's Apostle! Allow me to chop off the head of this hypocrite." Allah's Apostle said, "Hatib participated in the battle of Badr, and who knows, perhaps Allah has already looked at the Badr warriors and said, 'Do whatever you like, for I have forgiven you."

Noble brother in Islam, may Allah bless you, this is just a small example from many of the examples set by the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, in this case pertaining not to haste with concluding a judgement upon individuals, specifically without carefully looking into their case. This is why I say we laymen do not have the authority nor proper knowledge to deduce such judgements, by Allah it is a serious matter noble brother.

I read the article you presented to me, may Allah bless you, and still could not find that you are acting in accordance with the article itself. Akhi by Allah I do not share your views in this matter and I hope that by the Mercy of Allah you will not attribute kufr to me as well, may Allah bless you, although it will insha'Allah not harm me if it is so done.

A wise brother, may Allah reward him immensely, wrote an article once on the issue of the danish cartoons and said some things in it which call for us to reflect on ourselves, if you are interested you may read it here (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-.iL1jPA0d6mnZ2uTatEzn4ynXCM-?cq=1&p=5)

Jazakom Allah khayr

Wa Alaykum As Salam Ukhti

I wish that you do not address me as noble. I am yet, Bi idhnillah, to reach that status.

I do not see why you have brought up this incident of Hatib(RA) as daleel. There is simply no comparison to what Hatib did and what these policemen did. Hatib(RA) was a veteran of Badr and his action was not kufr but rather haram which Allah forgave him. These pakistani policemen on the other hand have no such rank in Islam and their actions were clear kufr not haram.

In actual fact this is an evidence for me and not for you or saladeen, since Muhammad(saas) did not label Umar(RA) as a khariji because he knew that Umar had erred in his takfeer.

I believe that a more appopriate example would be the incident of Abbas(RA,) the uncle of the prophet(saas) who fought alongside the Quraysh in the Battle of Badr.

Or even the takfeer that Khalid ibn Walid did on Maja'a bin Marrarah before battle against Musaylima the liar.

Insha Allah you will remind that "wise" brother that as Muslims the honour of Muhammad (saas) is more important to us than engaging in endless self reformation. How can he use the Makkah period, when the Muslims were weak, as an example and completely ignore the Medinah period when the Muslims had power and did in fact execute those who insulted Muhammad(saas) I think you should listen to the lecture "The dust will not Settle" by Sheikh Anwar Awlaki - online here (http://www.halaltube.com/anwar-al-awlaki/anwar-al-awlaki-the-dust-will-never-settle-down) or download here (http://www.mediafire.com/?yluzljwu1n4)


Akhi by Allah I do not share your views in this matter and I hope that by the Mercy of Allah you will not attribute kufr to me as well,


As beautiful as your words are ukhti, I find that this remark is particularly condescending.

Wa Alaykum As Salam

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Yes y-mughal, it is ever so easy to single out words and attack and label people based upon that. This is my point exactly, people can say a million words here which others would agree with, and then say two or three words that are disagreed with and automatically he/she is labeled as this and that.

What I know of the brother, and Allah knows best what is in our hearts, is that he is the last to even think about distorting the Shari'ah, or blaspheme and lie upon the Companions, may Allah be pleased with them all. And I am sure he did not mean with those words what you understood from them.

I just want to know what is your solution to those who insult the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam and if it is killing why are you not doing it? Why are we all sitting behind a screen and typing away instead of doing whatever it is you believe we should be doing.

Anyway, I went further into the "discussion" then what I intended so I will remove myself as it brings me no benefit.

May Allah bless you all

[abumuwahid]

It would appear he is anything but wise and very Jaahil with regards to this article. With regards to blasphemy and the companions (may Allah (swt) be pleased with them) he states -



In other words he is trying to say the companions didn't react directly or do anything directly towards those who blasphemed the Prophet (saw). I mean how ignorant can you get? What about the mission of Muhammad bin Maslamah (ra) et al and the killing of the Taghoot Ka'b ibn Al-Ashraf? What of the killing of Abu Rafi'? How about the killing of Ibn Khatal and his two slavegirls? What about the man who used to curse the Prophet (saw) and the Prophet (saw) sent Khalid (ra) to kill him? Uqba ibn Abi Mu'ayt and an-Nadr ibn al-Harith were killed for cursing the Prophet (saw) weren't they? What of az-Zubayr (ra) killing a man who cursed the Prophet (saw)? What about the blind man killing his female slave? What about the killing of the women from Khatma who satirised the Prophet (saw)? There are many more examples of how our Salaf dealt with those who blasphemed the Prophet (saw) - ignoramuses like the one who wrote that article are nothing but individuals distorting the Shari'ah and our glorious heritage. May Allah (swt) guide him.

Jazakallahu Kheir Akhi for this post. Barikallahu Fik.

I cannot see how this brother can be considered as wise. Perhaps the sister made a mistake in raising his status.

[abu_ibrahim]

I just want to know what is your solution to those who insult the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam and if it is killing why are you not doing it? Why are we all sitting behind a screen and typing away instead of doing whatever it is you believe we should be doing.

Its not a question of going round killing people that mock Islam. Its what the guy who wrote that piece says about the Sahaba [may Allah be pleased with them] not protesting or condemning those acts. The least Muslims can do it to condemn those acts.

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Akhi Abumuwahid,

My use of the word "noble" is out of respect and perhaps has something to do with the way I was raised, so, again, excuse me for that and in future I will refrain from using that word towards you insha'Allah if it makes you feel better, may Allah bless you.

In general, I think people on this forum are so used to insulting each other back and forth and almost viewing many as traitors or enemies that when someone with sincere intentions shows up he/she is not believed to be sincere and kind and well-mannered in reality, Allahul Musta'an.

I am disappointed that you fail to see the relevance of the hadith I mentioned, may Allah bless you, but khayr insha'Allah. I have very little knowledge but Alhamdulillah am aware of the instances you and brother y-mughal mentioned and accept them whole heartedly walhamdulillah. Although I do not wish to go any further into this discussion, I am just curious what then according to your line of thinking, you will do when someone insults the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam or any such thing? Will you write about it, will you go and kill them, what? What exactly are we to do, considering the current state we are in as an Ummah?

Barak Allahu feekom

[abu_ibrahim]

Please abstain from judging people and taking them out of the fold of Islam for your own good, I do not believe that Allah has given you the authority nor the knowledge of what is in chests of His servants.

Can you expand on these statements? Can one be expelled from Islam through actions alone or should one abstain as he does not know what is in the chest? Can a man be judged on the apparent?

[abumuwahid]

I am just curious what then according to your line of thinking, you will do when someone insults the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam or any such thing? Will you write about it, will you go and kill them, what? What exactly are we to do, considering the current state we are in as an Ummah?

Barak Allahu feekom

Subhanallah Sister,

Please think carefullly next time before you post such questions.

Some people might thing that you are an Agent Provocateur!

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Its not a question of going round killing people that mock Islam. Its what the guy who wrote that piece says about the Sahaba [may Allah be pleased with them] not protesting or condemning those acts. The least Muslims can do it to condemn those acts.

I agree. It is obligatory upon Muslims to condemn such acts. And the brother whose article I presented believes the same thing, although I see how his words could have been understood differently. However, as Muslims we should try our best to understand peoples' words in the best manner and to seek (70) excuses for one another. So let me tell you something: The brother who wrote the article, english is not his first language first of all. That is only one excuse.

Along these lines, I want to ask, what are we then supposed to say about Sayyid Qutb rahimahullah ta'ala who said some words about the Prophets and Companions that were out of place?

This is what happens to us when we focus so much on one particular thing, we loose focus of many other aspects of Islam.

To sum up: yes we should condemn all attacks against our deen, I don't think any Muslim disagrees with this. What we seem to disagree with are the tactics and ways of doing so.

[abumuwahid]

As Salamu Alaykum

I suggested that you listed to this lecture by Sheikh Anwar Awlaki.


I think you should listen to the lecture "The dust will not Settle" by Sheikh Anwar Awlaki - online here (http://www.halaltube.com/anwar-al-awlaki/anwar-al-awlaki-the-dust-will-never-settle-down) or download here (http://www.mediafire.com/?yluzljwu1n4)

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


Subhanallah Sister,

Please think carefullly next time before you post such questions.

Some people might thing that you are an Agent Provocateur!


Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah brother,

So I am supposed to worry about if some people might think I am an 'agent provocateur'? Which people would that be? In this line of thinking, it would be more proper that we fear Allah in how easily we declare people to be kuffar!

Please give me the same respect I give you, may Allah bless you, consider the context of my words, don't isolate a few to form an opinion of me, I ask you this for the sake of Allah.

[y-mughal]

Yes y-mughal, it is ever so easy to single out words and attack and label people based upon that.
What I know of the brother, and Allah knows best what is in our hearts, is that he is the last to even think about distorting the Shari'ah, or blaspheme and lie upon the Companions, may Allah be pleased with them all. And I am sure he did not mean with those words what you understood from them.

This is not about singling out words, misunderstandings and attacking others - this about an individual writing some explicit disastrous words and being told as such. It's calling a spade a spade (bit of a cliche I know). If he hasn't the knowledge or expertise to express himself clearly then he shouldn't clearly be writing such pieces especially on such topics.

I just want to know what is your solution to those who insult the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam

But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad SAW) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.An-Nisâ' 65

and if it is killing why are you not doing it? Why are we all sitting behind a screen and typing away instead of doing whatever it is you believe we should be doing.

Nice try for the incrimination - it's fairly obvious when someone cannot respond to the points raised in a sincere way.
Anyway, I went further into the "discussion" then what I intended so I will remove myself as it brings me no benefit.

Excellent idea.

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Can you expand on these statements?

No.

Can one be expelled from Islam through actions alone

Yes.

or should one abstain as he does not know what is in the chest?

This is a short question that requires a careful and detailed answer, many scholars have already expounded upon this.

Can a man be judged on the apparent?

Yes.

[abumuwahid]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم





Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah brother,

So I am supposed to worry about if some people might think I am an 'agent provocateur'? Which people would that be? In this line of thinking, it would be more proper that we fear Allah in how easily we declare people to be kuffar!

Please give me the same respect I give you, may Allah bless you, consider the context of my words, don't isolate a few to form an opinion of me, I ask you this for the sake of Allah.

Wa Alaykum As Salam

How have I not respected you?

That was a warning that you should not ask such incriminating questions.

Not only because such a question might lure a Muslim into making statements that could incriminate him in future, but also because it casts suspicion on your intentions. Sorry. This is the mood of these forums these days. Too many Muslims are in prison for something that they have said on the internet.

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

By the way brother Abu Ibrahim, the proof that a man can be judged on the apparent is overwhelming, right here on this forum. But woe to the layman who is wrong in his quick and careless judgement.

Brother y-mughal, thank you for the good manners and enlightment.

[Um Ismail]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


Wa Alaykum As Salam

How have I not respected you?

That was a warning that you should not ask such incriminating questions.

Not only because such a question might lure a Muslim into making statements that could incriminate him in future, but also because it casts suspicion on your intentions. Sorry. This is the mood of these forums these days. Too many Muslims are in prison for something that they have said on the internet.

Wa alaykum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Thank you for the warning, but why not follow the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam in this like any other matters and try to assume the best in my intentions? May Allah bless you brother, I asked this question because I wish to understand what I as a Muslimah am required to do if someone insults the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam in my face, may Allah forbid! Other then what I already do or have done and believe to be the right thing to do.

As for being suspicious of other Muslims ( I don't see what the reason is to be suspicious of me), it is a form of lie and not from adab of a Muslim. This is why I said earlier, suspicion and enmity has become so common on this forum that justice is forgotten and good manners and thoughts of other Muslims are replaced with paranoia. So we skipped the basics of Islam which would benefit us to discuss what exactly? And how can we ever be strong as an Ummah if this is how we behave towards one another?

[Um Ismail]

لسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Akhi y-mughal, I asked what is the solution when someone insults our Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. I did not state what I think the solution is so don't assume to know what I believe.

You gave me the ayah, may Allah bless you, as an answer. So let us act upon that ayah and refer our "disputes" to the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam without any resistance to his decisions. So teach me may Allah bless you what I am supposed to do, as a Muslimah, a laywoman in such situation? Is condemning these insults by way of hating them, speaking out against them, teaching people the truth about Allah azza wa jal, our Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, our deen, etc, is all of this not considered enough, what else can I do, in my position? I want to know what to do given the situation I am in and the situation the Muslim Ummah is in? Please don't accuse me of trying to incriminate anyone, it is injustice. And what points have you raised that i need to or haven't answered in a sincere way?

[Ghulam al-Islam]

Our beloved Prophet (pbuh) lived in peace with Christians and Jews and although many times he was insulted and physically beaten by them, he never once hurt or insulted them back; rather, he forgave them.

Lady Aisha (RA) said, "I once asked him: 'O Messenger of Allah, which day was the hardest upon you? Was it the day of Uhud?'

"No, Aisha", he said, "It was the day I went to Ta’if".

We know the story of Ta’if; we have recounted it before. The Prophet (SAWS) headed to Ta’if to invite its people to Islam. The whole town stood in two lines and began to pelt him with stones, sand, and bricks. The Prophet (SAWS) passed through them, amidst all this pain and insult. The face of Zaid Bin Haritha, who was with trying to prevent the stones from reaching the Prophet (SAWS), was drenched with blood, and the Prophet's feet were bleeding.

"By Allah, I did not recover until I reached Qarn al-Tha'alib.” He was very tired and hurt, and yet continued walking until he reached a remote place called Qarn al-Tha'alib.

"The angel in charge of the mountains said, ‘O Muhammad, Allah has sent me to you so that you may order me to do what you wish. If you wish that I should bring together the two mountains that stand opposite to each other outside of Ta’if to crush them in between, I would do that".

Had any other person been in his place, given the fact that his feet were bleeding and he had been called names, hurt, insulted and spat at, what would he do? Note how tolerant and patient the Prophet (SAWS) was. His answer to the angel in charge of the mountains was, "No, I rather hope that Allah will produce from their descendants, people who will worship Allah.

I wonder how our beloved Prophet (pbuh) would have reacted to this incident and in today's time.

[Abu wakee]

May Allah protect Pakistan and other Muslims lands from this fitnah, ammen ya rabb.

[Nu7]

Our beloved Prophet (pbuh) lived in peace with Christians and Jews and although many times he was insulted and physically beaten by them, he never once hurt or insulted them back; rather, he forgave them.

Lady Aisha (RA) said, "I once asked him: 'O Messenger of Allah, which day was the hardest upon you? Was it the day of Uhud?'

"No, Aisha", he said, "It was the day I went to Ta’if".

We know the story of Ta’if; we have recounted it before. The Prophet (SAWS) headed to Ta’if to invite its people to Islam. The whole town stood in two lines and began to pelt him with stones, sand, and bricks. The Prophet (SAWS) passed through them, amidst all this pain and insult. The face of Zaid Bin Haritha, who was with trying to prevent the stones from reaching the Prophet (SAWS), was drenched with blood, and the Prophet's feet were bleeding.

"By Allah, I did not recover until I reached Qarn al-Tha'alib.” He was very tired and hurt, and yet continued walking until he reached a remote place called Qarn al-Tha'alib.

"The angel in charge of the mountains said, ‘O Muhammad, Allah has sent me to you so that you may order me to do what you wish. If you wish that I should bring together the two mountains that stand opposite to each other outside of Ta’if to crush them in between, I would do that".

Had any other person been in his place, given the fact that his feet were bleeding and he had been called names, hurt, insulted and spat at, what would he do? Note how tolerant and patient the Prophet (SAWS) was. His answer to the angel in charge of the mountains was, "No, I rather hope that Allah will produce from their descendants, people who will worship Allah.

I wonder how our beloved Prophet (pbuh) would have reacted to this incident and in today's time.

Come on, not this "religion of peace" turn-the-other-cheek stuff again..

[harbi]

Apparently the car that was used in the attack belongs to a (former?) Government agent, according to Danish news reports.

According to Danish news the car was stolen during an assult on a policestation in Mochiwala in february. The government "agent" used to drive the car.

[harbi]

I'm watching a news report right now, showing a religious university in Pakistan where the students painted the danish flag on the ground in order to step on it when entering the building. I'm wondering why they belive that's an insult.
We do have many laws in Denmark, some might seem strange to a foreigner. I doubt if these students know there's a law in Denmark that forbits to disrespect or destroy any nations flag with the exception of the danish flag. You're free to disrespect and burn the danish flag all you want.

[Nu7]

What matters is that in muslim countries that would be considered an insult. I don't think they did for the camera. They just want to express their feelings towards Denmark and that is their way of doing it.

[Ghulam al-Islam]

Come on, not this "religion of peace" turn-the-other-cheek stuff again..


Why not, if that is what our beloved Prophet (pbuh) did???

Is it not his footsteps we are to follow???

Was it not him who is closest to Allah (swt) and closest to perfection???

Do you know better than what has been prescribed to us?

[Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari]

I'm watching a news report right now, showing a religious university in Pakistan where the students painted the danish flag on the ground in order to step on it when entering the building. I'm wondering why they belive that's an insult.
We do have many laws in Denmark, some might seem strange to a foreigner. I doubt if these students know there's a law in Denmark that forbits to disrespect or destroy any nations flag with the exception of the danish flag. You're free to disrespect and burn the danish flag all you want.

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka%27b_ibn_al-Ashraf">You are right, that is not proper way to deal with Kuffar who insult the Prophet.</a>

[harbi]

You're advocating violence. I think I'll ignore you and I do hope none take you seriously.

[I_Am_A_Hermit]

Why not, if that is what our beloved Prophet (pbuh) did???

Is it not his footsteps we are to follow???

Was it not him who is closest to Allah (swt) and closest to perfection???

Do you know better than what has been prescribed to us?

Are you a hippy?

[abumuwahid]

Are you a hippy?

What would that make him : "Ghulam Woodstock", "Groovy Baby :cool: "

[sultanmuradII]

Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem

You can't take some people seriously who generally call muslims in the police forces and also most muslims in countries such as pakistan, as disbelievers and polytheists, because they are quite obviously ignorant bunch who learn a few arabic words and listened to a few lectures and then repeat what they heard.

Even though it is well known to be extremely cautious in declaring takfeer, we find that the words kufr and shirk are used liberally when discussing the affairs of muslims.

What surprises me is that their peers who they espouse to, do not dare utter such labels yet they are some how more learned than them to do so.

AllahuAkbar.

[alghayb]

Akhi Mustafa, where is that quote from?

Akhi, if you are referring to MustafaAlMuhajir's post here (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=109835&postcount=5), then it was the Asad al-Islam, Mujaheed Sheikh Usama bin Laden in his statement 'May Our Mothers Be Bereaved Of Us If We Fail to Help Our Prophet' on 12 Rabi` Al-Awwal 1429. The video is here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiCck0xYe-Q) and the transcript is here (http://www1.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/FeaturedDocs/nefabinladen0308.pdf).

Can't say they were not warned. Besides. this second printing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy#Reprinting_in _other_newspapers) of the cartoons was a provocation as they have printed them before on 26 Sha`ban 1426 in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten). Although the first time their was little mention or condemnation of it outside of Denmark. See Wikipedia's 'Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy' article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy) for full details and timeline

After the 28 Jumada Al-'Awwal 1429 bombing of the Danish Embassy in Pakistan Abu al-Yazid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Abu_al-Yazid) claimed the revenge operation - transcript (http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/FeaturedDocs/nefadenmarkpakistan0608.pdf).