Islamic Thinkers Society

[aburasheed]

Anyone familiar with this group?

http://www.IslamicThinkers.com

From the flash intro, it sounds like a jihadi group.

It has Sheikh Saleh al-Fawzan in the list of scholars to be avoided.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

Anyone familiar with this group?

http://www.IslamicThinkers.com

From the flash intro, it sounds like a jihadi group.

It has Sheikh Saleh al-Fawzan in the list of scholars to be avoided.


alm off-shoot i think

[Abu Faaris As-Sumalee]

I dont understand how anyone can be sooooooo against Shaykh Salih Fawzan. No doubt he has said some things before wich i wish he never said,whoever he has said some very good things, such as stating that hukum bigairi ma anzalllah is kufr akbar.The Shaykh has also refuted many statments of the brothers of irja, he has also stated that that aiding the kufar against the muslims is kufr.

The Shaykh is also one of the best educated scholars we have today, with many excellent contributions to fiqh. After saying all of this i ask why would anyone want to put him on a list like that. I mean can you compair the shaykh to Abdulmuhsin Ubaykan or the other people on that list.

I hope people dont judge ulema based on whether they are on a silly list

[gag order]

they are not a jihadi group they are ALM revisited! these brothers are primarily concerned with dawah and demonstrations and in line with ALM's most recent adaption they are motivated somewhat by wahhabi leanings of the 'jihadi' sort.

they have an admirable dawah presence however a group that claims intellectual advancement needs to show this through their literature rather than recycle ALM material.

[Noorah]

I dont understand how anyone can be sooooooo against Shaykh Salih Fawzan. No doubt he has said some things before wich i wish he never said,whoever he has said some very good things, such as stating that hukum bigairi ma anzalllah is kufr akbar.The Shaykh has also refuted many statments of the brothers of irja, he has also stated that that aiding the kufar against the muslims is kufr.

The Shaykh is also one of the best educated scholars we have today, with many excellent contributions to fiqh. After saying all of this i ask why would anyone want to put him on a list like that. I mean can you compair the shaykh to Abdulmuhsin Ubaykan or the other people on that list.

I hope people dont judge ulema based on whether they are on a silly list
Assalamualaykum

i have to agree with you. i dont see how travelling to britain freely has him as a scholar of baatil. i understand they are american, and american laws of travelling are quite different to british laws, in the sense that britain is much more leniant.

i think it is sad to attack scholars with too many words. that doesnt help the ummah :(

[Brother_Mujahid]

I know the brothers from ITS and they are good brothers. They have given the modernists in the NY area a run for their money. As for the Saalih al-Fawzaan issue, well Fawzaan and others like him are viewed for better or for worse as palace scholars by many. They do alot of good in calling to Tawheed and showing ba'raa for the American government and other various da'wah activites. Though I think it would be best, at least of this point, if they avoided the scholar issue.

[Break The Cross]

I dont understand how anyone can be sooooooo against Shaykh Salih Fawzan. No doubt he has said some things before wich i wish he never said,whoever he has said some very good things, such as stating that hukum bigairi ma anzalllah is kufr akbar.The Shaykh has also refuted many statments of the brothers of irja, he has also stated that that aiding the kufar against the muslims is kufr.

The Shaykh is also one of the best educated scholars we have today, with many excellent contributions to fiqh. After saying all of this i ask why would anyone want to put him on a list like that. I mean can you compair the shaykh to Abdulmuhsin Ubaykan or the other people on that list.

I hope people dont judge ulema based on whether they are on a silly list

They know a few students of his whom personally have phoned Fawzaan during the debates they had with them, and he clearly does not follow al kufr bit Taghout fully. So for him to openly fail to disassociate from the Tawagheet and mislead others has landed him on the list of scholars of batil.

[Break The Cross]

they are not a jihadi group they are ALM revisited! these brothers are primarily concerned with dawah and demonstrations and in line with ALM's most recent adaption they are motivated somewhat by wahhabi leanings of the 'jihadi' sort.

they have an admirable dawah presence however a group that claims intellectual advancement needs to show this through their literature rather than recycle ALM material.

Yes most of them are ex-members of ALM, they had left ALM after a dispute with the Amir.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Yes most of them are ex-members of ALM, they had left ALM after a dispute with the Amir.

Yes, they are not affliated with al-Muhajiroun or any of its current spin-off movements. They are an independent outfit.

[Abu Faaris As-Sumalee]

what do you mean salih fawzan doesnt belive in kufur bitahgoot, Akhi he said that one of the taghoots is one who rules by other than what allah reveils, and that hukum bi gairin ma anzalllah is kufr akbar , what more do you want from him, of course he isnt a sulayman ibn nasir al-ulwan but he is above being on such a list made by people who just go on streets shouting at shia

[Brother_Mujahid]

what do you mean salih fawzan doesnt belive in kufur bitahgoot, Akhi he said that one of the taghoots is one who rules by other than what allah reveils, and that hukum bi gairin ma anzalllah is kufr akbar , what more do you want from him, of course he isnt a sulayman ibn nasir al-ulwan but he is above being on such a list made by people who just go on streets shouting at shia

Because some people say things theortically, but don't put it into practical use. Anyways I think people should not speak about these issues as they are only a source of division and fitnah. We all agree that figures like Hamza Yusuf Hanson, Nuh Ha Min Keller, al-Ubaykaan, and Sayyid Tantawi are deviant and even wicked scholars. As for the rest, well it would probably be more proper to leave criticism to the scholars and people of knowledge.

[Abu Faaris As-Sumalee]

what do you mean by practical, he told the people the fiqh, its for them to decide to act or not

[Brother_Mujahid]

what do you mean by practical, he told the people the fiqh, its for them to decide to act or not

I meant some people say these things in a theortical sense, but they fail to but it into practical application, for example making takfeer of current rulers.

[Abu Faaris As-Sumalee]

i understand but this is where ikra comes in, do you think that it is fair to put such a person on a list when you know they are under presure.

[Brother_Mujahid]

i understand but this is where ikra comes in, do you think that it is fair to put such a person on a list when you know they are under presure.

I never said it was fair to put him on the list. My exact words were: "Anyways I think people should not speak about these issues as they are only a source of division and fitnah. We all agree that figures like Hamza Yusuf Hanson, Nuh Ha Min Keller, al-Ubaykaan, and Sayyid Tantawi are deviant and even wicked scholars. As for the rest, well it would probably be more proper to leave criticism to the scholars and people of knowledge."

[Noorah]

salaam

i read the one on sheikh al sudays.
half of that is false. ??? and what have they against the shuyookh al awdah and hawali? i see their picture but no explanation?

the problem with that list imo is when they write things that can be slanderous they do not harm the scholars they harm themselves because we all know the consequences of slander.

to those that do know the brothers, i think you should advise them for their own good to stay away from issues like this

[gag order]

why is sheikh sudais on the list? perhaps they are ill-informed, perhaps they are even wrong about Hamza Yusuf Hanson, Nuh Ha Min Keller, al-Ubaykaan, and Sayyid Tantawi as well?

the mubtadi will claim that only the salafi scholars deserve to be on the list of scholars of baatil, the salafis will claim that only the mubtadi scholars deserve to be on the list.

i see only preferences and affiliations at play here rather than objectivity. but islamic 'thinkers' also have issues with objectivity too. they did not include any of the jihadi sheikhs and interestingly sheikh bin baaz?

i can only conclude from this that their 'criteria' for making it on the list is wether that scholar is in some way furthering the cause of the west by undermining those who resist it but a challenge for the 'thinkers' would be wether those scholars are guilty of a mere oversight or willing participants?


SCHOLARS OF BAATIL ???
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=731

[Brother_Mujahid]

why is sheikh sudais on the list? perhaps they are ill-informed, perhaps they are even wrong about Hamza Yusuf Hanson, Nuh Ha Min Keller, al-Ubaykaan, and Sayyid Tantawi as well?

the mubtadi will claim that only the salafi scholars deserve to be on the list of scholars of baatil, the salafis will claim that only the mubtadi scholars deserve to be on the list.

i see only preferences and affiliations at play here rather than objectivity. but islamic 'thinkers' also have issues with objectivity too. they did not include any of the jihadi sheikhs and interestingly sheikh bin baaz?

i can only conclude from this that their 'criteria' for making it on the list is wether that scholar is in some way furthering the cause of the west by undermining those who resist it but a challenge for the 'thinkers' would be wether those scholars are guilty of a mere oversight or willing participants?

I disagree with certain names being on the list, namely Shaykh Safar al-Hawali (hafdhahullaah), but I think many of the names on the list are individuals of a shady nature (the rest I've never heard of).

[Abu wakee]

ITS are silly and lack the ability to use their brains.

[Brother_Mujahid]

ITS are silly and lack the ability to use their brains.

Lack the ability to use their brains? Now you just being foolish. I really dislike this divisive attitude that causes unwarrented division between the Muslims. People need to steer between to extremes: unjust slander of the ulema and what Shaykh Abu Hamza (fakahullaah asra) called "shaykhism" or personality cults.

[Abu wakee]

Lack the ability to use their brains? Now you just being foolish. I really dislike this divisive attitude that causes unwarrented division between the Muslims. People need to steer between to extremes: unjust slander of the ulema and what Shaykh Abu Hamza (fakahullaah asra) called "shaykhism" or personality cults.

Chill akhee, I'm not from any personality cult. As far as ITS goes, the way they act as idiots on the streets in the name of "da`wah" and the type of vitrolic nonsense they have on their website is sufficient proof of their innanity.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Since when is speaking the truth and showing ba'raa to the mushrikeen "act[ing] as idiots"? As for their website, other then some contention over criticism of certain scholars, I fail to see anything wrong with it. If there is something wrong with it please bring examples.