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Nu7
4th June 2008, 02:48 AM
By TOM RAUM and NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writers 4 minutes ago

ST. PAUL, Minn. - Before a crowd of cheering thousands, Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois laid claim to the Democratic presidential nomination Tuesday night, taking a historic step toward his once-improbable goal of becoming the nation's first black president. Hillary Rodham Clinton maneuvered for the vice presidential spot on his fall ticket without conceding her own defeat.

"America, this is our moment," the 46-year-old senator and one-time community organizer said in his first appearance as the Democratic nominee-in-waiting. "This is our time. Our time to turn the page on the policies of the past."

Obama's victory set up a five-month campaign with Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, a race between a first-term Senate opponent of the Iraq War and a 71-year-old former Vietnam prisoner of war and staunch supporter of the current U.S. military mission.

And both men seemed eager to begin.

McCain spoke first, in New Orleans, and he accused his younger rival of voting "to deny funds to the soldiers who have done a brilliant and brave job" in Iraq. It was a reference to 2007 legislation to pay for the Iraq war, a measure Obama opposed citing the lack of a timetable for withdrawing troops.

McCain agreed with Obama that the presidential race would focus on change. "But the choice is between the right change and the wrong change, between going forward and going backward," he said.

Obama responded quickly, pausing only long enough to praise Clinton for "her strength, her courage and her commitment to the causes that brought us here tonight."

As for his general election rival, he said, "It's not change when John McCain decided to stand with George Bush 95 percent of the time, as he did in the Senate last year.

"It's not change when he offers four more years of Bush economic policies that have failed to create well-paying jobs. ... And it's not change when he promises to continue a policy in Iraq that asks everything of our brave young men and women in uniform and nothing of Iraqi politicians."

In a symbolic move, Obama spoke in the same hall — filled to capacity — where McCain will accept the Republican nomination at his party's convention in September.

One campaign began as another was ending.

Clinton won South Dakota on the final night of the primary season; Obama took Montana.

The former first lady praised her rival warmly in an appearance before supporters in New York in which she neither acknowledged Obama's victory nor offered a concession of any sort.

Instead, she said she was committed to a united party, and said she would spend the next few days determining "how to move forward with the best interests of our country and our party guiding my way."

Only 31 delegates were at stake in the two states on the night's ballot, the final few among the thousands that once drew Obama, Clinton and six other Democratic candidates into the campaign to replace Bush and become the nation's 44th president.

Obama sealed his nomination, according to The Associated Press tally, based on primary elections, state Democratic caucuses and support from party "superdelegates." It takes 2,118 delegates to clinch the nomination at the convention in Denver this summer, and Obama had 2,144 by the AP count.

Obama, a first-term senator who was virtually unknown on the national stage four years ago, defeated Clinton, the former first lady and one-time campaign front-runner, in a 17-month marathon for the Democratic nomination.

His victory had been widely assumed for weeks. But Clinton's declaration of interest in becoming his ticketmate was wholly unexpected.

She expressed it in a conference call with her state's congressional delegation after Rep. Nydia Velazquez, predicted Obama would have great difficulty winning the support of Hispanics and other voting blocs unless the former first lady was on the ticket.

"I am open to it" if it would help the party's prospects in November, Clinton replied, according to participants who spoke on condition of anonymity because the call was private.

Clinton's comments raised anew the prospect of what many Democrats have called a "Dream Ticket" that would put a black man and a woman on the same ballot, but Obama's aides were noncommittal. "We're not in the presidential phase here. We're going to close out the nominating fight and then we'll consider that," David Axelrod, Obama's top strategist, told reporters aboard the candidate's plane en route to Minnesota.

McCain's criticism of Obama referred to a vote last year in which the Illinois senator came out against legislation paying for the Iraq war because it did not include a timetable for withdrawing troops. At the time, Obama said the funding would give President Bush "a blank check to continue down this same, disastrous path."

Obama previously had opposed a deadline for troop withdrawal, but shifted position under pressure from the Democratic Party's liberal wing as he maneuvered for support in advance of the primaries.

Bill Burton, a spokesman for Obama, responded tartly. "While John McCain has a record of occasional independence from his party in the past, last year he chose to embrace 95% of George Bush's agenda, including his failed economic policies and his failed policy in Iraq. No matter how hard he tries to spin it otherwise, that kind of record is simply not the change the American people are looking for or deserve."

The young Illinois senator's success amounted to a victory of hope over experience, earned across an enervating 56 primaries and caucuses that tested the political skills and human endurance of all involved.

Obama stood for change. Clinton was the candidate of experience, ready, she said, to serve in the Oval Office from Day One.

Together, they drew record turnouts in primary after primary — more than 34 million voters in all, independents and Republicans as well as Democrats.

Yet the race between a black man and a woman exposed deep racial and gender divisions within the party.

Obama drew strength from blacks, and from the younger, more liberal and wealthier voters in many states. Clinton was preferred by older, more downscale voters, and women, of course.

Personality issues rose and receded through the campaign:

Clinton's husband, the former president, campaigned tirelessly for her but sometimes became an issue himself, to her detriment.

And Obama struggled to minimize the damage caused by the incendiary rhetoric of his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, an issue likely to be raised anew by Republicans in the fall campaign.

Obama's triumph was fashioned on prodigious fundraising, meticulous organizing and his theme of change aimed at an electorate opposed to the Iraq war and worried about the economy — all harnessed to his own gifts as an inspirational speaker.

With her husband's two White House terms as a backdrop, Clinton campaigned for months as the candidate of experience, a former first lady and second-term senator ready to be commander in chief.

But after a year on the campaign trail, Obama won the kickoff Iowa caucuses on Jan. 3, and the freshman senator became a political phenomenon.

"We came together as Democrats, as Republicans and independents, to stand up and say we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has come," he said that night of victory in Des Moines.

As the strongest female presidential candidate in history, Clinton drew large, enthusiastic audiences. Yet Obama's were bigger. One audience, in Dallas, famously cheered when he blew his nose on stage; a crowd of 75,000 turned out in Portland, Ore., the weekend before the state's May 20 primary.

The former first lady countered Obama's Iowa victory with an upset five days later in New Hampshire that set the stage for a campaign marathon as competitive as any in the past generation.

"Over the last week I listened to you, and in the process I found my own voice," she told supporters who had saved her candidacy from an early demise.

In defeat, Obama's aides concluded they had committed a cardinal sin of New Hampshire politics, forsaking small, intimate events in favor of speeches to large audiences inviting them to ratify Iowa's choice.

It was not a mistake they made again — which helped explain Obama's later outings to bowling alleys, backyard basketball courts and American Legion halls in the heartland.

Clinton conceded nothing, memorably knocking back a shot of Crown Royal whiskey at a bar in Indiana, recalling that her grandfather had taught her to use a shotgun, and driving in a pickup to a gas station in South Bend, Ind., to emphasize her support for a summertime suspension of the federal gasoline tax.

As other rivals fell away in winter, Obama and Clinton traded victories on Super Tuesday, the Feb. 5 series of primaries and caucuses across 21 states and American Samoa that once seemed likely to settle the nomination.

But Clinton had a problem that Obama exploited, and he scored a coup she could not answer.

Pressed for cash, the former first lady ran noncompetitive campaigns in several Super Tuesday caucus states, allowing her rival to run up his delegate totals.

At the same time, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., endorsed the young senator in terms that summoned memories of his slain brothers while seeking to turn the page on the Clinton era.

Merely by surviving Super Tuesday, Obama exceeded expectations. But he did more than survive, emerging with a lead in delegates that he never relinquished, and he proceeded to run off a string of 11 straight victories.

Clinton saved her candidacy once more with primary victories in Ohio and Texas on March 4, beginning a stretch in which she won in six of the next nine states on the calendar, as well as in Puerto Rico.

It was a strong run, providing glimpses of what might have been for the one-time front-runner.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/primary_rdp;_ylt=AuXlo3LH8zd0R7DSGRML3Xas0NUE

morbius
4th June 2008, 11:47 AM
So, Obama accepted Mrs. Clinton as a vice-president despite a pretty bitter campaign she led against him. All the time he kept his gloves on, never sinking to that level. Guy really has greatness in him, I don’t doubt he will one day be remembered as one of the greatest presidents America ever had (not that there is much good competition, anyway).

What worries me the most is the risk of assassination, black president, liberal, he will be target for many. Especially because of that, his choice for vice-president could have been better.

Um Ismail
4th June 2008, 11:52 AM
ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑÍãä ÇáÑÍíã

Are you also worried about the possibility of assasination because he is an "ex-Muslim"?

hearandobey
4th June 2008, 11:58 AM
question to american muslims:

will you be voting for obama over mccainn, even though you don't agree with the former but only to choose the "better of the two evils"?

morbius
4th June 2008, 12:09 PM
ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑÍãä ÇáÑÍíã

Are you also worried about the possibility of assasination because he is an "ex-Muslim"?

Surfing the net I did pick up a couple of racist conspiracy theories how Obama is a Muslim agent, etc. On this forum I found completely opposite theories, how Obama is Zionist pawn. Militants always see conspiracy against them in everything.

Magoo
4th June 2008, 12:16 PM
What worries me the most is the risk of assassination, black president, liberal, he will be target for many. Especially because of that, his choice for vice-president could have been better.


who do you think wud have been a more prudent choice as VP?

Um Ismail
4th June 2008, 12:31 PM
ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑÍãä ÇáÑÍíã

Surfing the net I did pick up a couple of racist conspiracy theories how Obama is a Muslim agent, etc. On this forum I found completely opposite theories, how Obama is Zionist pawn. Militants always see conspiracy against them in everything.

Actually I ask because recently an (non-militant) american politician, can't remember exactly who it was, discussed this, in his words, "high possibility of assasination" (to be executed by "radical Muslims" of course) simply because Obama is an apostate. He said the probability of this (predicted) assasination is the highest in the american history of assasinations on the presidents. I could not help but think how nowadays one is guilty simply by being a Muslim, of a crime that hasn't even been commited yet. And although I am not a "militant', I could not help but think "how convenient to 'announce' that Muslims will probably assasinate Obama". Although I am not interested in conspiracies, this surely smelled like one to me.

morbius
4th June 2008, 12:42 PM
who do you think wud have been a more prudent choice as VP?

I honestly could not say any names, I’ve lost touch with American political scene.
But he should pick a person of character and determination, a right combination of a pragmatist and an idealist, who would continue in his footsteps. I just don’t see Hilary Clinton as such.

Magoo
4th June 2008, 12:47 PM
I honestly could not say any names, I’ve lost touch with American political scene.
But he should pick a person of character and determination, a right combination of a pragmatist and an idealist, who would continue in his footsteps. I just don’t see Hilary Clinton as such.

she hasnt done herself many favours with her childish and slanderous campaigning, i suppose he needs her as VP to keep the party united otherwise mccain would crush them.

Nu7
4th June 2008, 12:54 PM
she hasnt done herself many favours with her childish and slanderous campaigning, i suppose he needs her as VP to keep the party united otherwise mccain would crush them.

The only reason he would choose her would be to win over some of her voters. It's no secret that she has a strong base of female voters and middle aged white people.

morbius
4th June 2008, 12:59 PM
Actually I ask because recently an (non-militant) american politician, can't remember exactly who it was, discussed this, in his words, "high possibility of assasination" (to be executed by "radical Muslims" of course) simply because Obama is an apostate. He said the probability of this (predicted) assasination is the highest in the american history of assasinations on the presidents. I could not help but think how nowadays one is guilty simply by being a Muslim, of a crime that hasn't even been commited yet. And although I am not a "militant', I could not help but think "how convenient to 'announce' that Muslims will probably assasinate Obama". Although I am not interested in conspiracies, this surely smelled like one to me.

On people-who-might-assassinate-Obama-list I wouldn’t put radical Muslims very high. He has much more to fear from racists and financial elite groups in my opinion. Trying to change a course of American politics has always been a life-threatening activity. You don’t believe that Lee Oswald acted alone, do you? Neither do I.

Brother_Mujahid
4th June 2008, 01:52 PM
Already the Republicans and the Clinton followers are preparing to ruin the reputation of Obama (http://www.infowars.com/?p=2524). If that doesn't work, I suspect he will be assassinated.

Brother_Mujahid
4th June 2008, 02:03 PM
On people-who-might-assassinate-Obama-list I wouldn’t put radical Muslims very high. He has much more to fear from racists and financial elite groups in my opinion. Trying to change a course of American politics has always been a life-threatening activity. You don’t believe that Lee Oswald acted alone, do you? Neither do I.

I really think that some white racist, urged on by element within the neo-conservative movement and with the complicity (http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2990.shtml) of the secret service, while attempt to assassinate (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2008/040208_ventura_warns.htm) Barack Obama. Hillary Clinton (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/23/AR2008052303158.html?hpid=topnews), no novice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Foster) to political murders, has also hinted at a desire to see Obama assassinated in order to assume the Democratic party's nomination.

Abu Ma'mar
4th June 2008, 03:07 PM
This man was never, ever a muslim. His dad is the one who apostated. Obama was a Christian and was never a muslim.

Nu7
4th June 2008, 03:14 PM
His dad apostated?

Anyway, I am sure the CIA/NSA will get him. But you know, listening to his speech last night all of a sudden I remembered the saying that speech can be a form of sihr, seeing the effect that he has on people is crazy. He is a very charismatic speaker (sort of like MLK and Al-Hajj Malik Al-Shabbaaz/Malcolm X Rahimahullah).

May Allah 'Azza wa Jal Protect us from the Dajjaal since he will probably be among the best of speakers if not THE best.

Um Ismail
4th June 2008, 03:14 PM
This man was never, ever a muslim. His dad is the one who apostated. Obama was a Christian and was never a muslim.

Ha! Go figure, just when I thought I knew it all!!!! I always thought he was the one who apostated. Either way, they're all the same to me, to be honest.

William Wurkmun Fosterr
5th June 2008, 01:39 PM
I Am Just Praying So Hard For His--And Everyone's--Safety.

abumuwahid
5th June 2008, 01:43 PM
I really think that some white racist, urged on by element within the neo-conservative movement and with the complicity (http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2990.shtml) of the secret service, while attempt to assassinate (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2008/040208_ventura_warns.htm) Barack Obama. Hillary Clinton (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/23/AR2008052303158.html?hpid=topnews), no novice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Foster) to political murders, has also hinted at a desire to see Obama assassinated in order to assume the Democratic party's nomination.

I also believe that he will be assassinated.

After his "I LOVE ISRAEL" speech last night, I am waiting anxiously for that to happen.

Suhaib Jobst
6th June 2008, 04:08 AM
Are you also worried about the possibility of assasination because he is an "ex-Muslim"?

No, the whole "assassination" thing is a contrived fear spread by the media, who idolized Obama early on as "the next Kennedy". It is all part of the same false narrative that has been presenting Obama as the next "shining hope". It to present him as a "martyr" who was "ahead of his time", so there are sinister figures lurking behind the shadows to put a stop to this.

will you be voting for obama over mccainn, even though you don't agree with the former but only to choose the "better of the two evils"?

As for me, NEITHER! I am sticking with Ralph Nader, the only candidate who remains opposed to the entire corporate agenda, who seeks to roll-back the empire, and reverse the Zionist stranglehold upon Middle East policy. We should stick to principles, rather than the false "lesser of two evils" mantra. To be honest, Obama represents little difference with McCain in concrete terms. Nader/Gonzalez 2008!

I would have gone with the Libertarian Party, but was disappointed they chose the conservatives masquerading as libertarians, namely Bob Barr and Wayne Allyn Root, rather than the principled libertarian candidates. The other candidates, specifically Mary Ruwart, would have continued the momentum of the Ron Paul Revolution and now all these efforts will be squandered by a former Republican congressman who will make a useless attempt to appeal to "conservatives" and has a questionable record that will make easy cannon-fodder.

But he should pick a person of character and determination, a right combination of a pragmatist and an idealist, who would continue in his footsteps. I just don’t see Hilary Clinton as such.

Not that I agreed with Hillary's policies or even supported her campaign, but I believed that the media shafted her and her followers, as the media decided early on they wanted Obama. He is really the same news wrapped up in cleaner paper, so it is merely a facade.

The only reason he would choose her would be to win over some of her voters. It's no secret that she has a strong base of female voters and middle aged white people.

Don't forget to mention two other marginalized blocs of voters: Latinos and the poor white working-class. Purely as an observer, I would say that if the Democrats want any chance to win in November, there has to be some sort of arrangement between the two camps.

greenshirt
6th June 2008, 06:56 AM
question to american muslims:

will you be voting for obama over mccainn, even though you don't agree with the former but only to choose the "better of the two evils"?

yes akhi, i will. he at least wants to get the troops out of iraq! not to mention that he supports universal health care, which is really good

greenshirt
6th June 2008, 06:56 AM
I also believe that he will be assassinated.

After his "I LOVE ISRAEL" speech last night, I am waiting anxiously for that to happen.

you want someone to die for supporting israel? wow. are you that low of a person that you want someone to die for disagreeing with you?

William Wurkmun Fosterr
6th June 2008, 02:12 PM
I also believe that he will be assassinated.

After his "I LOVE ISRAEL" speech last night, I am waiting anxiously for that to happen.I Pray Equally Hard For Your Safety.

abumuwahid
6th June 2008, 02:25 PM
you want someone to die for supporting israel? wow. are you that low of a person that you want someone to die for disagreeing with you?


Is it wrong to hope and pray that the enemies of Allah be eliminated?

abumuwahid
6th June 2008, 02:27 PM
I Pray Equally Hard For Your Safety.

Hi William.

Thanks for the sentiment.

Who are you going to pray to?

William Wurkmun Fosterr
6th June 2008, 03:05 PM
Hi William.

Thanks for the sentiment.

Who are you going to pray to?You're So Welcome, Brother Abumuwahid.

I Believe, Like You, That There Is Only One To Pray To: Allah, God, Jehovah. ...Whatever One Calls The Creator, The Inhabitor Of The Universe, The Sustainer Of The Universe, The Almighty, The Infinitely Perfect One, The Responsible One, The Parent, The Omniscient, The Omnipresent. The One Whom We Celebrate.:) The One For Whom We Aim. The One Whose Glory And Honor We Strive For And Live For.

William Wurkmun Fosterr
9th June 2008, 03:00 PM
You're So Welcome, Brother Abumuwahid.

I Believe, Like You, That There Is Only One To Pray To: Allah, God, Jehovah. ...Whatever One Calls The Creator, The Inhabitor Of The Universe, The Sustainer Of The Universe, The Almighty, The Infinitely Perfect One, The Responsible One, The Parent, The Omniscient, The Omnipresent. The One Whom We Celebrate.:) The One For Whom We Aim. The One Whose Glory And Honor We Strive For And Live For.The All-Loving, The All-Merciful, The Goal, The Reward.:)

Brother_Mujahid
9th June 2008, 03:08 PM
yes akhi, i will. he at least wants to get the troops out of iraq! not to mention that he supports universal health care, which is really good

So forcibly taking wealth from one group (i.e. the middle class) to redistribute it to another class (the lower class) is a good thing? "Universal healthcare" is just an Orwellian term for increasing taxes on the middle class and expanding the power of government. Don't be deceived by the leftist propaganda of Michael Moore and Hillary Clinton.

morbius
9th June 2008, 04:33 PM
So forcibly taking wealth from one group (i.e. the middle class) to redistribute it to another class (the lower class) is a good thing? "Universal healthcare" is just an Orwellian term for increasing taxes on the middle class and expanding the power of government. Don't be deceived by the leftist propaganda of Michael Moore and Hillary Clinton.

Even the poorest of European countries can afford universal health care, so USA can too. About 3.5% gets deducted from my salary and my employer pays some more, but in return no man in this country is left without a free medical treatment when he needs it. It improves the quality of life so significantly that I can’t believe that Americans haven’t been pressing their government for it more.
My cousin crashed from a motorcycle in America and ended up paying 85 000 dollars for reconstructive surgery. Here he would have paid nothing, even if he was just a tourist passing by.

Brother_Mujahid
9th June 2008, 04:41 PM
It's not "free," it comes from people's taxes. If income taxes were abolished, the American empire was defunded and ended, and corporate welfare was ended people would actually have more money and the market would be more competitive.

William Wurkmun Fosterr
9th June 2008, 04:45 PM
May Allah Liberate Us From competition.

Um Abdullah M.
9th June 2008, 05:21 PM
There are only 2 who have a chance to win
Obama or McCain

wouldn't you vote for obama just so the American criminals will be withdrawn from Iraq?

It is either Obama or McCain
if McCain wins those criminals will stay where they are.

I rather have obama (though I don't like him at all) and have the criminals out of Iraq than have McCain who is no different than Bush
it is like having Bush back in Presidency.

morbius
9th June 2008, 05:40 PM
It's not "free," it comes from people's taxes. If income taxes were abolished, the American empire was defunded and ended, and corporate welfare was ended people would actually have more money and the market would be more competitive.

What we pay in taxes for health care is actually much less that what Americans pay for a private health insurance and you still get poorer health care.
Absence of universal health care is a way for medical and pharmaceutical corporations to legally fleece the people of USA. Did you know that Aspirin on avarage costs 10 times less in Europe than in USA?

William Wurkmun Fosterr
11th June 2008, 02:42 PM
There are only 2 who have a chance to win
Obama or McCain

wouldn't you vote for obama just so the American criminals will be withdrawn from Iraq?

It is either Obama or McCain
if McCain wins those criminals will stay where they are.

I rather have obama (though I don't like him at all) and have the criminals out of Iraq than have McCain who is no different than Bush
it is like having Bush back in Presidency.You Can Count On Me To Vote For Obama.