A Dangerous Trend...

[Ibn Jafar]

I find all this talk about takfir, secularism etc. quite strange. As a new Muslim, (American) I have been, Alhamdullah, saved from alot of the strange things I hear about via the net. My contact with the American Muslim community is limited to who I see at the masjid.....I have never been to a conferance or the like......

That being said, from what I have read and learnt, I just dont understand why people who openly call to kufr, like the Usama across the pond, or irshad manji over here, and others, are not publicly denounced and excomunicated and shunned. Not only that, but the ideology they call to, I feel, is being tolerated (by silence)on both sides of the pond. I think in America it is worse, but all over it is happening. And this is something I don't see myself, cause my interaction with Muslims is only who I see/get to know at the masjid, but I see it on the net. And I feel that if I would speak to more 'Muslims', like the younger ones and the ones who dont go to the masjid, I would horrified at what I hear. Again I think in America it is worse, but I fear it is spreading. So much so that really basic things like hijab, jihad, criminal code of shariah, and Al-Walaa' wal-Bara, and even tawheed are now up for debate! It is something I just cant get my head around... one only has to watch "little mosque on the Parrie" to see what I am refering to.

Anyway....I'm just knida venting and wondering what Quran are these people reading? What book of hadith? I think this whole anit-takfir attitude is going to destroy the western Muslim community (especially in the US) cause it is blurring the lines of tawheed.

Your thoughts?

[hearandobey]

assalamu alaykum,

i had these concerns a while back as well (still do). i think the main reason that the lines are "blurry" is because we don't have enough da'ees and shaykhs clarifying things for us properly. they often speak in a too "general" sense that you feel that when a situation arises, you can't pass a judgment or act in the way the shari'ah dictates because maybe it doesn't apply to your situation? so for example they'll say "such and such is kufr, takes you out of the fold". then you have someone openly doing that, but as you mentioned no condemnation or on an individual level you'll just stay silent, try to think of something else and refer it to a shaykh later (that's if he'll even answer you!).

i can remember when the "pledge" came, i felt really confused. i discussed it here (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=6806).

also have a look at this (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=6882).

i hope Allah swt gives you steadfastness in the deen and brings you good company inshallah, ameen.

[Ibn Jafar]

The thing is, why do we need a fatwa, for example, to say Usama is not Muslim? Or Manji? Why do we need scholars to tell us secularism is kufr? Why do we need fatwa to tell us that our primary allegiance is to Islam and not our passport? Anyone who knows the basics of this deen would come to these conclusions by themselves. This is an issue well beyond Sufi/Salafi/Ashari. These things that are being debated now are the foundations of the deen. For those who know the basics, the lines are not blurry. They are crystal clear. But many Muslims don't know the basics well. And, I fear, will be mislead by the silence of our leaders.

[nonameyet]

you're right Ibn Jafar, this forum is not moderated correctly, they leave message attacking great 'ulama, and some common muslims argue on issues they have limited knowledge on.

[Anikaa]

you're right Ibn Jafar, this forum is not moderated correctly, they leave message attacking great 'ulama, and some common muslims argue on issues they have limited knowledge on.

I don't think we should be blaming the moddies because some muslims don't think properly nor hold their tongue.

May Allah guide us all, ameen.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

As-salaamu 'alaikum

I can assure you all that every reported post is looked at by the team whenever they can and if it breaks the rules then it will be dealt with accordingly. The report system is a way by which the users of the forum can help us do our job as we are not capable of looking at every post, so if they see anything which is problematic then they can hit the 'Report post' icon on the top right hand side of the post.

Saying that, we want people to air their views without the threat of censorship or the like as we would find occurs on other forums where they are scared to discuss the truth based upon the strength of the argument as oppossed to just using slogans and censering anyone who opposses them and thus resort to using totalitarian/communist like methods to control what happens on their forums.

This approach has helped us expose secularists, pseudo-jihadists, 'ash'arites/jahmis, non-muslim haters, Rafidah et al by allowing them to view their concerns/beliefs openly and therefore a response has been direct to what is said from the horses mouth as oppossed to us "misquoting" them.

This does not mean we agree with them nor are we responsible for their beliefs, links etc

I hope that is clear innsha'ALLAH

jazakumALLAHU khiaran

wasalamu 'alaikum