Halal Jobs for sisters

[Abu Muaawiyah]

Assalamu alaykum

In no way am I encouraging sisters to work as I feel it is has some very negative consequences. But, as for those who do decide/forced to work (with the permission of their fathers or husbands of course), what jobs can sisters do which is halal?

Apart from working as a teacher in a all girl school where there are no male colleagues (which is rare I’m sure) and mystery shopping which can be conducted over the phone. Where else can sisters work?

[I_Am_A_Hermit]

Call centres?

I hear that they only require talking to people over the phone.

It's difficult to find a job where one doesn't interact with people. Unless you work from home.

[Magoo]

Call centres?

I hear that they only require talking to people over the phone.

.

call centres are the worst place for both brothers and sisters, there is alot of fitna, alot of free mixing, alot of young unmarried people, should be avoided IMO.

a good home business like tailoring womens clothes, making jilbabs is a good halal trade that a woman can do from home but with all these things you have develop a skill set, its never easy but Allah provides insha'allah

[I_Am_A_Hermit]

call centres are the worst place for both brothers and sisters, there is alot of fitna, alot of free mixing, alot of young unmarried people, should be avoided IMO.

a good home business like tailoring womens clothes, making jilbabs is a good halal trade that a woman can do from home but with all these things you have develop a skill set, its never easy but Allah provides insha'allah

Sounds to me like a school environment.

If the emaan is strong, then freemixing etc shouldn't really be a problem.

[Magoo]

Sounds to me like a school environment.

If the emaan is strong, then freemixing etc shouldn't really be a problem.

primrary schools generally have very few men teaching and infants even less, high schools are a different story.

teaching in a primrary school is definately alot better than a call cantre, im speaking from personal experience.

also strong eeman does help, you are right sister

[Fajr]

what jobs can sisters do which is halal?Teaching is a diverse thing, one doesn't have to always teach in a school - they can do private classes, tuition, online, they can work independently with a school (e.g. be an examiner, make exam papers/marking schemes etc), a lot of 'behind the scenes' type of work.

They can also be librarians, work in a doctors surgery, translators etc - many options masha'Allah. I think we make things difficult for ourselves, there are many jobs that are halaal and employees are willing to accomodate for you if you're the one for the job.

[Abu Ikrimah]

I think that our sisters can use modern methods of commerce (internet, mobile phone etc.) and become successful businesswomen, just like Khadeejah (r) was!

[bluey]

I'm going into Journalism. Pros? Cons? Does anyone have any experience in this field?

Recently I've had a sort-of mixed feelings about it, Allahu Aalam. I've always wanted to do it though, so let's see.

[Obviously it will be print Journalism and more involved with writing, etc.]

[Nu7]

I think that our sisters can use modern methods of commerce (internet, mobile phone etc.) and become successful businesswomen, just like Khadeejah (r) was!

lol for a minute I thought you said Abu Khadeejah.

Anyway, I'm guessing anything is ok unless it involves free mixing. Now with the internet alot of things can be done from home.

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

Question...Do you expect sisters to work (not at home, primary school) without having to interact with a single male??

[nomad]

If a female has to work, then she should, in what ever capacity she is trained in. It is more fitna for a man to work in some of these companies with the scantily clad women flirting around the office, than for a muslim woman who choses to wear hijab, having to cope with 'steve' the resident baked beans farter. Quite honestly if the sister is going to work out of nessecity, inshallah she will be protected. If she is going because she 'wants' to have 'independence', her 'own money', or is bored at home, then maybe she is more open to fitna.

[Umm Ahmed]

Nursery teachers , nursery nurses , and as has been suggested infant and primary don't many male teachers.Working in a old peoples home (women) Clerical departments in hospitals are women only areas.
Taking in peoples ironing I know a lady who does that , she makes a tidy sum and its hours that she chooses.
Learn to sew , take up peoples hems, not everyone likes wunda web.

On a side note; we need sisters in the field of cancer ,especially for breast and cervical.
This field is dominated by men , even in the middle east.

[Umm Ruhma]

call centres are the worst place for both brothers and sisters, there is alot of fitna, alot of free mixing, alot of young unmarried people, should be avoided IMO.

a good home business like tailoring womens clothes, making jilbabs is a good halal trade that a woman can do from home but with all these things you have develop a skill set, its never easy but Allah provides insha'allah

I worked in a call centre during my last year of alevels and uni days. It was good fun, the team leaders were my friends from uni. We had our own table in the corner which had only girls (cousins and friends). No guys bothered us alhamdulilah. There were couple of us who wore the niqaab aswell inside the workplace, we were also allowed to use empty rooms to pray our salaahs alhamdulilaah.

Call centres = good money

[Um Abdullah M.]

Fitnah is fitnah even if one has strong eman.
It is human nature to be attracted to the opposite gender.
After mixing with opposite gender for a period of time it can have an affect even if the person is strong in iman.
no human is immune to this fitnah.

so don't let shaytan fool you to thinking that you can repel the fitnah of women (or vise versa) just because ur iman is strong.

[hearandobey]

On a side note; we need sisters in the field of cancer ,especially for breast and cervical.
This field is dominated by men , even in the middle east.

we need more muslim midwives.

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

we need more muslim midwives.

Alot of people say things like we need more muslim midwives, doctors etc...but do we? As long as they are female, does it really matter?

And clerical work in an old people's home, ironing, lol is that as ambitious as we're allowed to get? It doesn't make sense to go to college/uni if that's what you intend on doing at the end.

...Or should sisters not even go college/uni coz there's plenty of free mixing going on there.

[Umm Ahmed]

We do jobs that are suited to our nature , if a sister is looking for a job ( if she has a family) then surely its out of necessity. A good job is something that you have had to work hard at away from home for many years either studying or working from the bottom up , how can a muslimah fulfil her fard duties at home .
I watched a programme about this Indian lady (forgot the company) but she runs a food empire , and she says she has had to make sacrifices for her career . We should make sacrifices for our families.
Our families are a trust, we only get one chance at bringing them up.

[Anikaa]

As a nurse in female/children hospitals?

[Abu Muaawiyah]

I began this thread because I know that many women brought up in the west have a ‘desire’ to work. I personally do not agree with this unless it is due to necessity (single mums etc). But if they are going to work, then this should be in a strictly 100% halal environment even if that means there are no men working there. I do agree that if sisters do work, then they should pursue a 'career' in jobs that are suited to their nature.

Sisters should generally be discouraged form working anyway . I work in an environment where the employees are 90%+ women (subhanallah). A few observations I have and I submitted a university assignment on this topic many years ago.

Women who are ambitious in terms of work find it difficult to break through the ‘glass ceiling’ and so they need to work harder and ‘prove’ themselves. In the quest for doing this, they take on the characteristics of men whether it be mannerisms or looks (short hair like Maggie).

The reality is that sisters are too ‘independent’ from their upbringing in the west as it is. Having close contact with a shaykh who deals with Islamic divorces, the number of sisters demanding a khula’ is extremely troublesome. And mots of this occurs due to their ‘independence’. For them to work will increase them in this. Allahul musta’aan.

There are plenty of examples of how the woman should be reliant on her husband/mahram in the sharia and there is great wisdom in this if you truly reflect on this O Muslims.

My purpose of the thread was not to discuss this issue, but since it came up I thought I’d out in my 2 pence worth in.

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

We should make sacrifices for our families.

If you're at the age where your kids are at school and your home alone all day, there's no problem with getting a job, you're not sacrificing any family time. Or you could just work part time. (Note: If your husband is happy with it of course)

But if they are going to work, then this should be in a strictly 100% halal environment

Which goes back to my original question, does this mean the sister shouldn't interact with a single male? Just wondering.. coz I dont think thats possible in the West. Even as a primary school teacher, there's more males now.

The only option then would be to work from home. Hmm.

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

Ok just to set the record straight with people who are getting offended by this in private...

1. I am NOT a feminist
2. I don't think sister's need to work.
3. I also don't think all women are good for is clerical work and ironing/washing other people's clothes.
4. If a sister wants to work, its her choice..before marriage. Alot of sisters work up until they're married. Some stop because no one will marry them (its true..none of my medic friends are engaged coz they wanted to be surgeons and they kept getting turned down for that reason so they're considering becoming gp's instead)

I also think it works two ways, Abu Muaawiyah...if you're in an evironment where the employees are 90% women then you should leave.

Ok, that's all.

[I_Am_A_Hermit]

Ok just to set the record straight with people who are getting offended by this in private...

1. I am NOT a feminist
2. I don't think sister's need to work.
3. I also don't think all women are good for is clerical work and ironing/washing other people's clothes.
4. If a sister wants to work, its her choice..before marriage. Alot of sisters work up until they're married. Some stop because no one will marry them (its true..none of my medic friends are engaged coz they wanted to be surgeons and they kept getting turned down for that reason so they're considering becoming gp's instead)

I also think it works two ways, Abu Muaawiyah...if you're in an evironment where the employees are 90% women then you should leave.
Ok, that's all.


lol

It's an individual's choice, whether they want to work or not. It is also their choice what profession they want to go into.

We need Muslimahs in all occupations.

[Abu Muaawiyah]

I understand what you are saying. All sisters are different and not all can stay at home all the time. And we do need institutions that are only for women – but then again, the whole independence thing comes in.

I think the sisters are in a dilemma as they do have aspirations and aims. Many sisters have been to university, so what do we expect? I am merely highlighting the need for the next generation to be brought up in a better way. I think genders are becoming far too androgynous and I say this about the brothers as well.

As regards to me working in an environment where the women are 90%+, then a number of matters have to be taken into consideration.

1) I work at a desk where there are three men including myself and all the other women are in different offices. So my interaction with them is extremely limited.
2) This does not mean that sisters should justify the above for themselves as what I am doing is an obligation (providing for my family etc) and for sisters it is a choice (note in a previous post – I did state that single mums may be the exception).
3) Ummumul balwa, for men there is no such thing as 100% halal (or at the very least rare) in this country (England), so we have to look for limiting the haram as much as possible. For this reason, I am looking to move on. I just started recently.

Going back to the whole independence thing – I hope that the sisters will pay attention to this as this is something that is very important.

The Prophet said that the woman who believes in Allah and the last day, should not travel without her mahram for more than a day and night.

Now some people claim that the reason for this is ‘safety’. Now, if this was the case, then women would have definitely travelled with the sahabah because who was more noble in character than the sahabah to protect the Muslim women? Would this ruling be obsolete if the mahram is handicapped? Rather what seems the reason (illa) is that the ruling is ta’abuddi (we don’t know the reason except that it is to worship Allah). Some of the scholars have highlighted that the wisdoms behind such rulings is to make the women dependent on men and that the man to feel responsible for the woman. After studying this with a shaykh who also deals with many divorce cases said that this ‘independence’ makes the woman arrogant and this has resulted in many women seeking khulaa without a proper need. Reflect now on the immense wisdom of the sharia!

[WM]

1. I am NOT a feminist


Dear, your answers are so redolent with feminism that this is obviously a case of what psychoanalysts call 'resistance'. I am sure (and past experience has vindicated me) that two minutes' probing would be enough to elicit a confession from your illustrious self. Your whole understanding of the issue is predicated on the assumption that a woman who stays at home 'producing' children is somehow worth less than one who does not. No doubt, you will seek to deny this (though it is implicit in everything you say); your words belie your words. At the very least, you prefer work to motherhood and see it as something 'loftier', more 'ambitious' (as you said), ergo, better. Dear sister, I find this ***** envy of yours thoroughly entertaining. But I will pause, nonetheless, to ask you why you take such an unnecessarily circuitous route to achieve what you so ardently desire? I am sure you could find, um, surgeons 'sympathetic' enough to grant you what you wish for. And your other biological 'deficits' could be remedied with regular testosterone supplements.

This is the problem with (most) Muslim women; feminist(ic) values have been so thoroughly socialised in them, they don't see it!

[Abu Muaawiyah]

Muhaqiq,

Learn some manners akhee.

[Magoo]

Dear, your answers are so redolent with feminism that this is obviously a case of what psychoanalysts call 'resistance'. I am sure (and past experience has vindicated me) that two minutes' probing would be enough to elicit a confession from your illustrious self. Your whole understanding of the issue is predicated on the assumption that a woman who stays at home 'producing' children is somehow worth less than one who does not. No doubt, you will seek to deny this (though it is implicit in everything you say); your words belie your words. At the very least, you prefer work to motherhood and see it as something 'loftier', more 'ambitious' (as you said), ergo, better. Dear sister, I find this ***** envy of yours thoroughly entertaining. But I will pause, nonetheless, to ask you why you take such an unnecessarily circuitous route to achieve what you so ardently desire? I am sure you could find, um, surgeons 'sympathetic' enough to grant you what you wish for. And your other biological 'deficits' could be remedied with regular testosterone supplements.

This is the problem with (most) Muslim women; feminist(ic) values have been so thoroughly socialised in them, they don't see it!

what a stupid post

[WM]

Learn some manners, akhi.

[precious_pearl]

Learn some manners, akhi.

Luk bro Muhaqiq u shudve just minded ur language when replying 2that sister! No need 2 speak wiv such an attityude wiv da * words!

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

You know, your post was actually making me smile until I got to the end. You're so crude and melodramatic.

I don't have to explain myself to you, needless to say that was quite offensive and you should apologise.

[Abu GG]

Having read alot of the above, I think we need to bear in mind that we as men needn't be scared of sisters being 'independent'.

Alot of brothers are tremblingly scared of their wives becoming independent, or having any sense of independence. And if they see their wives leaning to independence, or showing any hints of independent traits, they panic and begin to take drastic measures to curb that independence, which can often lead to marital aggravation or even divorce in some cases.

I personally think it's nice to have a bold, strong, witty, independent, intelligent woman whose on the ball (absolutely NO puns intended) and well clued up about the external society, and some of these qualities are only gained by dealing with external society, whether by work or other means.

On the other side of the scale, I also think homely sort of girls are nice too, who aren't too clued up about external society. But they have to be pretty hot to make up for it!

However, in my opinion, a woman who makes more of an impact in society will be the former due to her experience and social skill.

There's risks in every situation, even if it does mean just sitting at home doing diddlysquat.

It all comes down to personality of the woman.

We need to assess a woman's personality, and see where she would slot in best for the betterment of society.

If allowing them to work, based on their personality, means there'll be more marital bliss, peace at home, and betterment of society, then as long as her work does not violate the shariah, or her responsiblities of raising children, then by all means why not?

It's all about maintaining a balance. And wisdom. And careful examination of your lady without being overly pessimistic or sinister in your approach.

Bottom line is that it's not haraam for a woman to work, and we shouldn't be scared of 'independent' girls.

Whatever the heck they are.

Kind regards.

[WM]

Sorry, this is an incredibly controversial issue and tends to elicit strong emotions (that I can't control, obviously). Sorry.

[Abu Ilyas]

Muhaqiq I think what they mean is a woman who does nothing at home. If your a housewife that does not mean that you should waste time and not be productive and seek to benefit the ummah.

Nobody wants to marry a woman who is too independent. The world of work as it is evolving in the west is not something we should expose our women too. The least of the problems which will occur is that it will spoil the nature of the woman, make her less feminine and therefore less attractive to men as wives. At the end of the day what attracts us to women is their femininity . No man really wants to be married to a work hardened woman who chats to male colleagues all day everyday...it reduces attraction in the eyes of a husband.

[Adem Al-Albani]

asSalaamu'alaykum

What we need is some women scholars and huffadha to teach our children. Their work can be done sitting at home reading books, or in the Masajid listening to classes.

The womens work is at home, making sure our children are safe from bid'ah, shirk and kufr.

The womens work is at home, making sure their husbands are waking up for fajr and going off to the Masjid for Salaah.

This is a womens job brothers and sisters.

"And whoever trusts in Allah, then He is Sufficient for them."

[dragon]

asSalaamu'alaykum

What we need is some women scholars and huffadha to teach our children. Their work can be done sitting at home reading books, or in the Masajid listening to classes.

The womens work is at home, making sure our children are safe from bid'ah, shirk and kufr.

The womens work is at home, making sure their husbands are waking up for fajr and going off to the Masjid for Salaah.

This is a womens job brothers and sisters.

"And whoever trusts in Allah, then He is Sufficient for them."

What a beautiful post, jazakallah.

Interesting thread and very relevant. A couple of posts alluded to the point about sisters attending uni and that's important. As far as I know, most forms of teaching jobs (UK) still require having a degree and teachers training and unfortunately there is a lot of free mixing at uni.

Also, what is the stance of brothers and sisters on the idea that a woman should be capable of doing some work in case the husband dies and she needs to provide for the family for a period of time?

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

asSalaamu'alaykum

What we need is some women scholars and huffadha to teach our children. Their work can be done sitting at home reading books, or in the Masajid listening to classes.

The womens work is at home, making sure our children are safe from bid'ah, shirk and kufr.

The womens work is at home, making sure their husbands are waking up for fajr and going off to the Masjid for Salaah.

This is a womens job brothers and sisters.

"And whoever trusts in Allah, then He is Sufficient for them."

I agree with you but a sister who works will tell you that she can do all those things even with a job. It is possible. Especially if you're a teacher and work school hours only, so you're at school same time as the kids and home before your husband.

I don't look down on sisters who stay at home (coz I do that myself and its bloody hard thank you very much) but I also don't think we should look down on the sisters who go out to work for whatever reason, assuming that they're neglecting their family. Its not fair.

[Abu Ilyas]

I agree with you but a sister who works will tell you that she can do all those things even with a job. It is possible. Especially if you're a teacher and work school hours only, so you're at school same time as the kids and home before your husband.

I don't look down on sisters who stay at home (coz I do that myself and its bloody hard thank you very much) but I also don't think we should look down on the sisters who go out to work for whatever reason, assuming that they're neglecting their family. Its not fair.

Its not a matter of looking down upon sisters who go out to work for "whatever reason" as you put it. You cannot be so general. The muslim woman who goes out to work for the sake of independence and a career, let us say she works in the city and has aspirations of becoming some big shot, this is not a good situation, she compromises her religion for definite.

But there might be a Muslim woman who goes out to work simply to support her husband or someone who goes out to work to help the community there is a world of difference between these situations

Nowadays we are coming to a situation where we raise our Muslim girls to become university educated and go out into the world of work, this is what they expect, just like men as if it were normal. This situation goes against many aspects of our religion such as free mixing, hijab etc etc

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

What about the muslim woman who wants to go out to work because she feels as though her brain cells are dying from being at home all day? Or because she has alot of free time?

The muslim woman who goes out to work for the sake of independence and a career

This completely depends on the type of upbringing she has..otherwise the only way i can think of to deal with it is by saying sisters shouldn't go to uni. Hmmm.

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

Also, since when does independence equate bad muslimah? She compromises her deen if she's not strong to begin with so I agree with Abu GG that alot of it boils down to the individuals personality.

[Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri]

Praise be to Allaah.

Allaah has made men the protectors and maintainers of women for two reasons, what Allaah has given to men and what men earn. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means”

[al-Nisa’ 4:34]

The fact that Allaah has given men more than women in terms of reasoning, thinking and physical strength is something concerning which there is no dispute. This is what Allaah has given to men. With regard to what men earn, this refers to the husband’s spending on his wife, which is something that is obligatory and is the basis for the man being the protector and maintainer of the wife.

It was narrated that Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Fear Allaah with regard to women for Allaah has entrusted them to you and intimacy with them has become permissible for you by the word of Allaah. Their rights over you are that you should provide for them and clothe them on a reasonable basis.”

Narrated by Muslim, 1218.

Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: This indicates that it is obligatory for the husband to spend on his wife and clothe her. This is established by scholarly consensus. Sharh Muslim, 8/184.

One of the reasons why it is obligatory for the husband to spend on the wife is that the wife is prevented from earning an income because of her duties towards her husband, children and house.

Al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The obligation of spending on one's wife and children.”

Then he narrated the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah, according to which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of charity is that which leaves one independent of means, and the upper hand is better than the lower hand, and start with those who are dependent upon you.”

Al-Bukhaari, 1426; Muslim, 1034.

Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said:

The reason why it is obligatory to spend on the wife is that she is prevented from earning because of her duties to fulfil the husband’s rights. There is scholarly consensus that this is obligatory.

Al-Fath, 9/625.

The husband has to fear Allaah his Lord, and take care of the wife and children that Allaah has entrusted to him. It is not permissible for him to force his wife to do that which she is unable to do. She does not have to work and spend on the house and on him; rather it is obligatory for him to spend on her even if she is rich.

The role that the woman plays in the home is very important, because she looks after the house and takes care of it, and she fulfils her husband’s rights by preparing the house for him, keeping it clean and tidy, making food, looking after the children, and many other things.

The woman does not have to work outside the house, especially if going out will expose her to mixing with non-mahram men and failing or falling short in her duties towards her house and children.

As mentioned above, it is obligatory for the husband to spend on her, according to scholarly consensus. He has to realize this and make his wife feel safe and protected in her house so that she can do that which Allaah has enjoined upon her.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam QA

[precious_pearl]

What about women who aren't married? Since they don't have kids or a husband to look after they should be allowed 2 go out and work right, obviously keeping to limits within shari'a? Or will this be seen as a woman having too much independance?

[Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri]

Guidelines on women working outside the home
I am a 20-year-old girl studying engineering. I work during the summer in a stationary store; in order to pay my college fees, am I sinful? I wear niqab, and sometimes feel that no religious man proposes to me for this reason.


Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

The basic principle is that a woman should remain at home, and not go out except for necessary purposes. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance”

[al-Ahzaab 33:33].

Although this is addressed to the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), it also applies to the believing women. It is only addressed to the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) because of their honour and status with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and because they are examples for the believing women.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Woman is ‘awrah, and if she goes out, the shaytaan raises his hopes (of misguiding her). She is never closer to Allaah than when she stays in her house.” Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan and Ibn Khuzaymah; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Shaheehah, no. 2688.

And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said concerning a woman’s prayer in the mosque: “Their houses are better for them.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (567) and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

For more information please see the answer to question no. 6742.

Secondly:

It is permissible for a woman to go out of her house for work, but that is subject to certain conditions. If they are met, it is permissible for her to go out. They are:

- That she needs to work in order to acquire the money she needs, as in your case.

- The work should be suited to the nature of woman, such as medicine, nursing, teaching, sewing, and so on.

- The work should be in a place that is only for women, and there should be no mixing with non-mahram men.

- Whilst at work she should observe complete shar’i hijab.

- Her work should not lead to her travelling without a mahram.

- Her going out to work should not involve committing any haraam action, such as being alone with the driver, or wearing perfume where non-mahrams can smell it.

- That should not lead to her neglecting things that are more essential for her, such as looking after her house, husband and children.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen said: The field in which a woman works should be only for women, such as if she works in teaching girls, whether in administration or technical support, or she works at home as a seamstress sewing clothes for women and so on. As for working in fields that are for men, this is not permissible for her because it requires her to mix with men, which is a great fitnah (source of temptation and trouble) and should be avoided. It should be noted that it is proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have not left behind me any fitnah that is more harmful to men than women; the fitnah of the Children of Israel had to do with women.” So the man should keep his family away from places of fitnah and its causes in all circumstances. End quote.

Fataawa al-Mar’ah al-Muslimah (2/981)

If these conditions are met in your work, then there is nothing wrong with you doing it in sha Allaah.

We ask Allaah to grant you a righteous husband, for He is able to do that.

And Allaah knows best.


Islam Q&A

[al-istiqamah.com]

It is impossible in the UK for a sister to qualify as a doctor without having had contact with male students, tutors and patients. However, when a Muslimah is in hospital, every one of us wants a female Muslim doctor or midwife. The fatwa of many respected saudi ulemaa doesn't really address the point that on the one hand, ulemaa say that it is haram for women to work in mixed environments. Paradoxically, they quite rightly urge us to only use Muslim female doctors when needing treatment. Where are these qualified sisters supposed to come from in the UK or US?

I think we all agree that as a general rule it is recommended for women to stay at home, but one should put things into perspective. If a husband allows his wife to work in a halal environment, that is fine. It is generally our zealous single brothers who have far more of an issue with sisters working than the married brothers.

I have come across many sisters who suffered from depression when churning out one child every 18 months or so, and having no adult company all day long. Sometimes, participating in voluntary work etc for a few hours a week outside the home can give the sisters a huge stress-relief. Consequently they are stronger to deal with the noble task of raising the next generation.

A woman's personality needs to be taken into consideration. Some sisters hate leaving the home, and find full contentment within. Others may need a break at times, and I know from experience that Islamic Relief and other such organisations are always short staffed.

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

Jazakallah khair for that post al istiqamah.

they quite rightly urge us to only use Muslim female doctors when needing treatment.

This is the part I don't get. WHY do they have to be Muslim?

(sorry this is a completely different topic)

[I_Am_A_Hermit]

Its not a matter of looking down upon sisters who go out to work for "whatever reason" as you put it. You cannot be so general. The muslim woman who goes out to work for the sake of independence and a career, let us say she works in the city and has aspirations of becoming some big shot, this is not a good situation, she compromises her religion for definite.
But there might be a Muslim woman who goes out to work simply to support her husband or someone who goes out to work to help the community there is a world of difference between these situations

Nowadays we are coming to a situation where we raise our Muslim girls to become university educated and go out into the world of work, this is what they expect, just like men as if it were normal. This situation goes against many aspects of our religion such as free mixing, hijab etc etc


There is nothing wrong with being ambitious or having aspirations. Gender doesn't come into it.

[Abu Ilyas]

We should be ambitious and aspire to things which are halal.

It is impossible in the UK for a sister to qualify as a doctor without having had contact with male students, tutors and patients.

So she should not do it then.

However, when a Muslimah is in hospital, every one of us wants a female Muslim doctor or midwife.

Female will do, lets not get too picky about it. Many muslim female doctors are not practicing anyway so i doubt it will make much difference, I would rather my wife is seen by a qualified, competent female doctor rather than insist on a Muslim doctor. What next? Are we going to ask for a female Muslimah and she must be Salafi as well?! Would be nice but is it worth compromising the deen for.

Seriously, it is a huge let down that there are not decent institutions which will allow muslim women to pursue subjects and fields without compromising deen .... I think pursuing higher education is more beneficial because of the person it develops rather that a factory to produce employees. I would encourage sisters to get degrees but not for the reason to enter the workplace....and if you think that is a waste then you are brainwashed and do not truly value the meaning and power of a decent education.

[al-istiqamah.com]

"churning out one child every 18 months or so"

Why all this belittling of motherhood? There are presuppositions in this statement that really stink. Face it- a lot of sisters feel they're worthless unless they work. They need a psychologist, they don't need to be humoured.

Unlike you brother, I am a wife and mother.
When you get married one day inshallah you might realize that Muslim women are permitted by the ulema to have a gap of 2 years (while breastfeeding) between pregnancies. Despite this concession, many sisters are pregnant a mere 6-9 months after birth, and the cycle continues for years. This is why many spend YEARS not fasting in ramadhan, as they are either pregnant or feeding. I have seen sisters suffer from depression for exactly this reason. They don't have time for learning the deen and thus their eman suffers.

I was not in any way belittling motherhood. I have been a mother for 10 years, and have always been a full-time mother. That's not to say that some sisters do not find it difficult, despite it being their natural role. Just as some brothers find it difficult to get a job and provide, despite that being their role.

If a sister can work without neglecting her family or compromising her deen, why not?

I would rather my wife is seen by a qualified, competent female doctor rather than insist on a Muslim doctor.

AbuIlyas, I didn't say that a woman has to have a Muslim female, just that naturally it is a personal preference for many sisters. Many female midwives do not understand why sisters need to have the curtains closed on the ward, in order to give themselves some privacy. And a Muslim doctor would be qualified, otherwise she wouldn't be in the Obs and Gyny dept.

I think pursuing higher education is more beneficial because of the person it develops rather that a factory to produce employees. I would encourage sisters to get degrees but not for the reason to enter the workplace...

So are you encouraging sisters to be in a mixed university environment purely for their own self-benefit, but if they work it is frowned upon? I'm intrigued.

[Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri]

^ we thought u had left (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=6007) ?

[WM]

Who, all two of you? :)

'07-13-2007'

Quite a lot has happened since then.

[Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri]

Alhamdulillah

[WM]

alhamdulillah.

[Abu GG]

Maybe you're on :D

Daaaymn, the irony!

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

Muhaqiq why do you keep deleting your msgs? Maybe if you stop and think about what your typing, it'll help.

[WM]

I do normally (think about what I'm writing).

[Abu Ilyas]

Istiqamah,

If its a preference then good. It is therefore not a need as many people argue and use to justify the presence of women in various places where they prob. should not be.

Come on there are ways to get an education without free mixing the haram way..even in a mixed university to be honest. What I am against is the culture that Muslims are adopting with regards to their women..i.e there are no restrictions at all to her working and there should be. Most work environments for graduates entail things which Muslim women should not be exposed to. Whereas university environments do not have to be like that. Though of course scholars have stated that it is forbidden for muslim women to attend mixed universities, for good reasons, though i don't know if i agree with that opinion absolutely.

[WM]

"it is forbidden for muslim women to attend mixed universities"

I don't agree with this opinion at all, and if I had a daughter I would definitely send her to uni.

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

don't agree with this opinion at all, and if I had a daughter I would definitely send her to uni.
For what purpose?

[WM]

For what purpose?

Too much feminism in my post for you?

To learn, obviously. There are many things that can only be learned in universities.

Well, the opinion of the Saudi scholars is one thing, but what about the scholars here? Has Sh Haytham ever told sisters to pull out of mixed universities in the UK? No, this isn't his opinion at all as far as I can tell.

Besides, any parent will want their kid to have the best education possible, for me this means uni is absolutely necessary. Even if they don't 'do' anything with their degree.

[juwairiyah]

bismillah

assalamu'alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh

We need daees and alimahs.

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

Daees and alimah's go through intensive study...isnt this at the expense of their families?

[WM]

"isnt this at the expense of their families?"

Maybe this is why there are/were few female scholars of note.

Wait. Actually, I'm sure there are lots who fit their studies around these kind of requirements.

[juwairiyah]

bismillah

assalamu'alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh

my respected sis ,I don't agree with u on ur above post .Farhat Hashmi is a living example mashaallah. Alhamdulillah she has done so much for the community and she has a family too sis. she herself said in one of her lecture that she had to go through trials and that she had sacrificed many things alhamdulillah and it was only then that she got support from her family and husband..


A muslimah who knows her place is home and not out will not feel that staying at home is a burden Inshaallah.Islam doesnt forbid a mulsimah from going out when its necessary,or from enjoying...
If a sister does all her housework by herself then I dont thik she has time for boredom especially married sisters allahualam

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

Wait. Actually, I'm sure there are lots who fit their studies around these kind of requirements.

Right. And im sure there are many sisters who fit their jobs around the same requirements.

Juwairiyah, my point is that there is an assumption that women who work are neglecting their duties at home. It doesn't have to be the case.

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

Anyhow, this thread is getting quite long winded.

Going back to the original question, I dont think there are any 100% halaal jobs and the one's with minimal male contact probably don't require a degree. I thought working at a call centre is pretty good coz there wont be any dress code and you're on the the phone all day so no need to chat to the opposite gender really (apart from the customer of course)

And like someone said, loooadsa hijabis around generally. Where I worked, it was 70-80% Muslim. Fabulous.

[Abu GG]

Coincidentally, Muslim Matters is discussing the same issue..

[WM]

http://alternativeentertainment.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/a-question-on-working-with-non-mahram-women/

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

I think this article hits the nail on the head with a few issues.

http://www.raleightavern.org/Rlghtvrn.htm

Long but a good read.

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

Lets not forget that if it wasn't for feminism, we wouldn't even be having this conversation...women in the West couldn't study let alone work

Islam gave us our rights way before the feminist movement came along so its not fair to label us as feminists.

[WM]

Women couldn't study? See, this is why if I had a daughter I would definitely send her to university; she wouldn't make statements like this.

Plus; as a Muslim you should say, 'If it weren't for Allah, then for xyz'.

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

Women couldn't study? See, this is why if I had a daughter I would definitely send her to university; she wouldn't make statements like this.
What?!? Urgh. Just shush.

Plus; as a Muslim you should say, 'If it weren't for Allah, then for xyz'.


Ok. Thank you. If it wasnt for Allah and then the feminists etc

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

For an English student, ur dumb. You should know allll about the educational restrictions (besides doing the basics) on women, the attitude to those who wished to study further and how much the feminists have done. Yes that's right. The feminists actually did something GOOD.

*waits for a full on attack*

[WM]

I just think you're being incredibly reductive. The social dynamic is a lot more complicated than you seem to think, and that includes sexual politics. That was all I meant to say; I didn't mean to insult you or anything sister.

As for 'restrictions', as far as I remember there was even a period when women could sit degree exams and still not be awarded a degree! Yes, very unfair etc.

Oh, and I forgive you for calling me dumb.

[rambant]

The world of work as it is evolving in the west is not something we should expose our women too. The least of the problems which will occur is that it will spoil the nature of the woman, make her less feminine and therefore less attractive to men as wives. At the end of the day what attracts us to women is their femininity . No man really wants to be married to a work hardened woman who chats to male colleagues all day everyday...it reduces attraction in the eyes of a husband.
As a discussion independant of most of everything else happened in this thread: The emboldened underlined bit, is that necessarily the case? I've read in a several places that working outside the home hardens a woman and she loses her femininity, where does this come from?
:confused:

[Scented Blood]

If the emaan is strong, then freemixing etc shouldn't really be a problem.


Have you heard the talk 'Know your enemy Shaytan' by Yahya Ibrahim?

After listening to the first part i think you might change your view.

Later Inshallah il post it here for you. Definatly worth a listen.

[Scented Blood]

It is amazing how many people voice thier own views without to even refer to what the people of knowledge say on the issue.

Scary...

[Abu Ilyas]

As a discussion independant of most of everything else happened in this thread: The emboldened underlined bit, is that necessarily the case? I've read in a several places that working outside the home hardens a woman and she loses her femininity, where does this come from?
:confused:

I think it comes from experience and what people observe.

[Umm Ahmed]

Have you heard the talk 'Know your enemy Shaytan' by Yahya Ibrahim?

After listening to the first part i think you might change your view.

Later Inshallah il post it here for you. Definatly worth a listen.

Rmember to come back and post it , I would be interested in listening

[aboo ayaat al hindee]

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Barsisa the Worshipper
(The Renegade)

Allah the Almighty says in His Glorious Qur'an: (Their allies deceived them) like Shaitan (Satan), when he says to man: "Disbelieve in Allah." But when (man) disbelieves in Allah, Shaitan (Satan) says: "I am free of you, I fear Allah, the Lord of the `Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists)!" So the end of both will be
that they will be in the Fire, abiding therein. Such is the recompense of the Zalimun (i.e. polytheists, wrongdoers, disbelievers in Allah and in His Oneness). (Al-Hashr, 16, 17)

Ibn Jarir said that 'Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud interpreted the Qur'anic Verse that reads: (Their allies deceived them) like Shaitan (Satan), when he
says to man: "Disbelieve in Allah." But when (man) disbelieves in Allah, Shaitan (Satan) says: "I am free of you, I fear Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists)!" So the end of both will be that they will be in the Fire, abiding therein. Such is the recompense of the Zalimun (i.e. polytheists, wrong-doers, disbelievers in Allah and in His Oneness). (Al-Hashr, 16, 17)

Ibn Mas'ud (May Allah be pleased with him) said: Once upon a time, there was a woman grazing sheep and goats. She had four brothers. She (for some reason) used to spend the night at a monk's cell. The monk committed adultery with her and she got pregnant. Satan came to him and said: Kill the woman and then bury her for you are a reputable and highly respected man (i.e. don't risk your own reputation for such a simple woman). The monk killed her and then buried her. Thereupon, Satan visited her four brothers in a dream while they were asleep and said to them: the monk committed adultery with your sister, and because she got pregnant, he killed her and buried her in such-and-such location. In the morning, one of them said: "By Allah! Last night I dreamt of something and I do not know whether to relate it to you or just keep it to myself?" They said: Relate it to us. He did so and one of them said: By Allah! I saw the same dream. Another said the same. And the fourth one said the same thing. They agreed on that there must be something serious about that dream.

They went to the king and appealed for his help against the monk. The king's troops came to arrest him and he was taken away. On the way, Satan came to the monk (and whispered in his ears): I set you up. No one else can save you from this. Prostrate yourself before me just for once and in return, I will save you from this. Thereupon, the monk prostrated himself before Satan. When they presented themselves before the king, Satan said to him: I am free of you! Finally, the monk was killed.

The same story was narrated by the Leader of the Believers, 'Ali Ibn Abu Talib (May Allah be pleased with him) in another wording. Ibn Jarir said: I was told by Khallad Ibn Aslam, on the authority of An-Nadr Ibn Shamil after Shu'bah, after Abu Ishaq, after 'Abdullah Ibn Nahik saying: I heard 'Ali as saying: A monk worshipped Allah Alone for sixty years. Satan exerted himself to seduce him, but could not. He went to a woman and touched her with evil (maddened her). The woman had brothers whom were visited by Satan who told them to take her to that monk to receive treatment and cure. They took her to the monk and he treated her. Afterwards, she stayed for a while at his cell (house). One day, he was attracted to her and he committed adultery with her. She got pregnant and he killed her (to conceal his first crime). Her brothers came (after knowing the matter) and Satan appeared again for the monk and said: I am your friend, I did
not find a solution or way to mislead you, but (finally) I set you up. So, obey me and I will save you from this. Prostrate yourself before me and you will be saved.
The monk did so. Then, Satan said: "I am free of you, I fear Allah, the Lord of the`Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists)! " .(Al- Hashr ,16) This is the
interpretation of Allah's Saying: (Their allies deceived them) like Shaitan (Satan), when he says to man: "Disbelieve in Allah." But when (man) disbelieves in Allah, Shaitan (Satan) says: "I am free of you, I fear Allah, the Lord of the" Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists)!" So the end of both will be that they will be in the Fire, abiding therein. Such is the recompense of the Zalimun (i.e. polytheists, wrong-doers, disbelievers in Allah and in His Oneness). (Al-Hashr, 16, 17)

Stories of the Qur'an By Ibn Katheer
Translated by Ali As-Sayed Al-Halawani

[rambant]

^I don't get it, are you talking about what someone said about having Iman or about the woman grazing sheep as something to do with women working?

I think it comes from experience and what people observe.
So is it conjecture? I'm concerned that it might be more than conjecture, it might have some solid grounding. I don't want to mouth off and then have to pull back when someone presents a hadith or something.

[Abu Bakr as-Somali]

Would it be Halal to work in a place where only Lesbians work?

[Scented Blood]

Know your enemy Shaytan

Part 1
http://www.mediafire.com/?ynyoz1tifiv

Part 2
http://www.mediafire.com/?ymskwophny6

Part 3
http://www.mediafire.com/?o3eu4kc3qim

Part 4
http://www.mediafire.com/?ibeziiflr9u


Its part 1 that i want to highlight as a an example of free mixing.
Rest of it is also an excellent talk Mashallah.

[aboo ayaat al hindee]

[COLOR="Navy"]^I don't get it, are you talking about what someone said about having Iman or about the woman grazing sheep as something to do with women working?

it was for those who believe that if one's imaan is strong he/she can throw themselves into an evil environment and not have to worry about falling into haraam.

[Umm Ahmed]

Know your enemy Shaytan

Part 1
http://www.mediafire.com/?ynyoz1tifiv

Part 2
http://www.mediafire.com/?ymskwophny6

Part 3
http://www.mediafire.com/?o3eu4kc3qim

Part 4
http://www.mediafire.com/?ibeziiflr9u


Its part 1 that i want to highlight as a an example of free mixing.
Rest of it is also an excellent talk Mashallah.

Yes it was an excellent talk mashaAllaah , there was lots of advice on how to keep away from the shaytaan . JazakAllaah Khayr for giving us it.

[UmmAbdulMalikStorm]

I've changed my mind...

I badly want to work in the body shop!!! Bliss.

That's halal right?? And if you don't want to work in the store, you can look into their "body shop at home" scheme. Ok so whoever does, lemme know.