Life after the Salafi cult

[Abu Ikrimah]

http://salafiburnout.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/life-after-being-in-the-salafi-cult/#more-31

[Abuz Zubair]

SubhanAllah... reading stuff like that I feel deep anger for Madkhali. I can't believe how people can defend this leader of misguidance.

[I_Am_A_Hermit]

Nice cult.

[Ibn Jafar]

Extremism breads extremism, and in many cases, ridda. Those who are extreme will eventually burn out, wither thier excess is Madkhalism or the oppisite extreme, you just can't sustain youself. I'm living proof of that myself... at the end of the day we just have to pick up the pieces and move on the best we can...but for some of us the damage is beyond repair.

Also, the whole Salafi label was/is a disaster. The people who scream salafiyah the most are the furthest from the Salaf. The Ulema made a big mistake in promoting that word.

[ibn 'abd al-jabbaar]

Tragic to hear what happened to his wife as well... may Allah protect us all from that... ameen!

[Hamza]

sad story. we have seen this before

[Ibn Jafar]

Tragic to hear what happened to his wife as well... may Allah protect us all from that... ameen!

To often extremism with regards to overzealousness in the deen results in ridda. It just can't be sustained.

[Abuz Zubair]

To often extremism with regards to overzealousness in the deen results in ridda. It just can't be sustained.
We have seen this too often. Extremists are perished. We have seen this happen right here on the forums and other places.

[Abu Ikrimah]

SubhanAllah... reading stuff like that I feel deep anger for Madkhali. I can't believe how people can defend this leader of misguidance.

Any Madkhali in particular?

[Abuz Zubair]

There is only one Madkhali in the world who could be held responsible for this mess.

[Skillganon]

If this story is true, I feel sorry for him. Sorry for his family for even getting close to them.

[Abu Ikrimah]

There is only one Madkhali in the world who could be held responsible for this mess.


I guess so. And all the other Madkhalis are blind followers.

However there is another point - which is that people like Ali Hasan Al Halabi were causing the same type of fitnah (albeit to a lesser extent) when people had not even heard of Shaykh Rabee's name - in fact it was those Jordanians who built him up in the west....

[Adem Al-Albani]

Sad, but remember, not all salafis are like that. It's usually uneducated salafis that fall into that kind of crap. Those that don't read at all and just listen to a lecture or two once a month.

[Adeel]

May Allah save us from the madkhali fitna. Ameen

[Ibn Jafar]

There is only one Madkhali in the world who could be held responsible for this mess.

So his followers don't even twist his words? Like he really is as crazy as them?

[Adem Al-Albani]

I do think they twist his words.

Also, Shaykh Rabee' isn't really known in Makkah even. He has some followers that spread the "da'wah" to American and UK basically. Ask the common folk and even some "ppl of knowledge" who shaykh rabee' is and they won't even know.

[Abuz Zubair]

So his followers don't even twist his words? Like he really is as crazy as them?
Put it this way, Sh Wasiullah blasts Spubs and Abu Khadija, and Madkhali becomes so upset that he takes sides with Abu Khadeeja and refuses to speak to Wasiullah for 3 days! Spubs and the most extremist of the lot you can think of operate directly under his blessings! there is no twisting of words happening. He is the head of fitna.

And yes you are right al-Albani, most of the followers around these guys are gullible American and US reverts who get a thrill out of telling ppl 'I attended Sh Rabi's duroos!'

[Adem Al-Albani]

And yes you are right al-Albani, most of the followers around these guys are gullible American and US reverts who get a thrill out of telling ppl 'I attended Sh Rabi's duroos!'

Not even, majority of them never met him, never sat in his class and most likely don't even know what he looks like.

That most they've done is heard his voice.

[Ibn Jafar]

Put it this way, Sh Wasiullah blasts Spubs and Abu Khadija, and Madkhali becomes so upset that he takes sides with Abu Khadeeja and refuses to speak to Wasiullah for 3 days! Spubs and the most extremist of the lot you can think of operate directly under his blessings! there is no twisting of words happening. He is the head of fitna.

And yes you are right al-Albani, most of the followers around these guys are gullible American and US reverts who get a thrill out of telling ppl 'I attended Sh Rabi's duroos!'

Madkhalis are without a doubt extreme and just unpleasant to be around. Always have to watch your tounge lest you get attacked!

[Abuz Zubair]

Madkhalis are without a doubt extreme and just unpleasant to be around. Always have to watch your tounge lest you get attacked!
The best defence is to attack.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as-salaamu alaykum,

There were so many times when people would argue with me because of my mentioning bilal phillips or ali at tamimi, or abu usama. I remember one time i played a lecture in a paltalk room that I opened back in the day (i think it was called salafiyah true way of islam) and i played a lecture of Ali at tamimi hafidullah, and a sister came in the room and mentioned that Ali at tamimi wasnt a salafi. And then started saying all these things about him. we discussed for a bit but it was futile. That is why even though there is a Salafi masjid that i can go to, I do not because im fearing that if i take my wife (who is a new revert) she will see an ugly picture of what is presented as 'islam'.

[mosa]

Put it this way, Sh Wasiullah blasts Spubs and Abu Khadija, and Madkhali becomes so upset that he takes sides with Abu Khadeeja and refuses to speak to Wasiullah for 3 days! Spubs and the most extremist of the lot you can think of operate directly under his blessings! there is no twisting of words happening. He is the head of fitna.

And yes you are right al-Albani, most of the followers around these guys are gullible American and US reverts who get a thrill out of telling ppl 'I attended Sh Rabi's duroos!'
Salaam

I think some asians are also becoming madhkali. Is SPUBS madhkali website?

[green musallah]

Signs you might be in a cult

Isolation from society:

Like I said, this doesn’t necessarily mean that one has to be living on a compound with all other sect members and waiting for the end of the world. However, one of the defining marks of a cult is to control the surroundings of the members. This makes it easier to control their minds. They are constantly warned of the dangers of being away from the other sect members at all possible times. (Note: This is different from keeping good company)

They absolutely cannot be friends with or have contact with a person outside of the sect unless they are recruiting that person into the sect and are endlessly told of the dangers of doing such a thing.

They are warned of the dangers of getting a secular education (lest they be corrupted) told to avoid critical thinking, and to embrace groupthink. Any books, lectures, etc outside of those specifically approved by the movement leadership must be avoided at all costs. This way, information can be spoon fed to the members very carefully.

"Disclaimer by Salafi Publications The contents of this book are considered to be sound and in accordance with the Qur'aan and Sunnah, therefore we have stocked it in our Bookstore. This however does not mean that we recommend the author, because it is possible that the author may be using the Qur'aan and Sunnah only to promte his deviation! For more information: tel.00 44 121 773 0033"

http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=6&Topic=96&sortby=desc

Absolutism/Literalism

The world is presented in stark black and white terms and there are no shades of gray. There is no compromise. Members are made to feel guilty for doing things that any other normal human being would do, such as mixing with people that are not in their cult. So the constant goal becomes to spend as much time around other members as possible. Even if one has to quit a job to do so.

Everyone in the sect is good. Everyone else is evil. There is no in-between. Complex issues are made into very simple ones. Because they have been trained to see only in black and white, members of cults are very hard to reason with since they have trouble understanding complex real life issues.

All people and things outside of their bubble are evil - and thus avoided - while the sect, its members and everything associated with it is good. The more one can immerse themselves into the cult the more righteous the person is in the eyes of the other cult members.

Loaded Language

The use of thought-terminating cliches, catch phrases or words that are designed to end a conversation or controversy. Some of the more popular ones where Muslims are concerned are “Khalifah”, “the ulamaa”, “the haqq”, “Islam is the answer”, “Qur’an and Sunnah” etc. Phrases that when invoked can’t be questioned. It is sad sometimes because even ayat and hadith have been misused in this manner. People in cults speak almost entirely in these kind of cliches

“Confession”

Thought I’d never see this amongst Muslims, but one particular cult made it their hallmark to make their members do a form of what can be called “confession” in front of the other members in order to express their loyalty to the cult and disavowal to everything else.

I knew that members of cults other religions were known to use this tactic and make their members confess their sins before each other, but I was surprised when I saw it appear amongst a Muslim sect that I can only say now was a cult. This creates an environment of fear and leads to more control over the members. They can also be berated with the thought terminating cliches

Exaggerated claims

Cults tend to engage in religious hairsplitting. There is no room for disagreement even on small issues where noone is necessarily wrong. Typically small issues are lifted into sacredness and can not be called into question. Also an exaggerated reverence for the leadership is demanded. This makes name droppers raise in status within the cult.

The imam of jarh wa-tadeel in the current times, who built a fortress of iron between Ahlus Sunnah and Ahlul Bidah - Allamah Sheikh Rabee esquire

http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=6&Topic=1175

Groupthink

I mentioned this earlier, and there is some overlap with Isolationism, but I wanted to add that common sense is thrown out the window and seen as hostile to the cult. One’s personality must be purged and made to conform to a group template that is usually pretentious. All forms of individuality must be de-emphasized

Abuse

Former members of cults often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

Denial of Problems

Because they associate perfection with their cult, there cannot possibly be any mistakes or bad advice given, so they deny and/or bury the problems at all costs. Remember, cult members are trained to see only in black and white terms and getting them to admit to problems is like pulling teeth

If you see these signs, you just might be in a cult (!)

http://tariqnelson.com/2007/02/16/signs-you-might-be-in-a-cult/

[Magoo]

a well written and moving article, may Allah protect us from the fitna of extreme hizbiyyah and cultism

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

a well written and moving article, may Allah protect us from the fitna of extreme hizbiyyah and cultism

AMEEN!

Subhanullah! You know sometimes I get the feeling that if these salafis had the chance they would pronounce takfeer upon us and take our women. I just don't go near them. There is always some kind of issue they will pick on.

Brother steppd onto a train, he didn't have a big beard a light one, and all he said to the brother was "as-salaamu 'alaikum" and sat down, the salafi said in reply "what i your manhaj".......the brother was obviously baffled and didn't know what to reply he just said "I follow the hanafi madhab" (he studies it but isn't a bigot) the brother replied "you should say Qur'an and Sunnah"........how about saying walaikum as-salaam first?

But I do admit as well as had been mentioned not all of the brothers are like that, there are some brothers who would try and talk nicely to you and not try and have a discussion to see if your on bida', and to be honest one of the nicest brothers I have ever met in my entire 9 years as a muslim was a brother from uni who was fromo brixton masjid. maashaALLAH

[Umm Ahmed]

Sad, but remember, not all salafis are like that. It's usually uneducated salafis that fall into that kind of crap. Those that don't read at all and just listen to a lecture or two once a month.

My experience is that its not those at all , its brothers and sisters who blind follow one group so blindly, that they have a hatred for others that borders on madness.
They go to their talks, read their recommended literature only, their sites, their masjids.
Even amongst my small group of friends some have this mentality with other "off the manhaj" authors books , I'm just like get over yourselfs.

[I_Am_A_Hermit]

Because they associate perfection with their cult, there cannot possibly be any mistakes or bad advice given, so they deny and/or bury the problems at all costs. Remember, cult members are trained to see only in black and white terms and getting them to admit to problems is like pulling teeth

If you see these signs, you just might be in a cult (!)

I'm in a cult.

[Abu Maryam PK]

very sad story. his wife was turned off islam because of the extremism. it really is shocking.

i wonder Keller, haddad and co took advantage of this situation to get a stronhold in reverts?

[C47]

Not long after that, my wife and I divorced as it was official that I was a ‘deviant’. I wanted to keep my family together, but she was uncompromising and I was not going to keep her prisoner. Ironically my ex-wife eventually ‘burned out” and stopped practicing Islam altogether when she too was boycotted for not being sufficiently ’salafi’ over some petty argument on one of their “salafi sister” email lists. She does not cover at all and is basically agnostic about religion at this point.

this is bad......but the salafi dawah cannot be blamed for this

[Abuz Zubair]

Is it just me or hasnt anybody noticed that this article is by Yousef al-Khattab? (student of Abdullah Faisal - ultimate hater of salafis???)
Which article? *confused*

[C47]

my mistake.......

who is behind salafiburnout?

obviously this is an attempt is throw mud at salafi dawah

[Tauheed]

Is it just me or hasnt anybody noticed that this article is by Yousef al-Khattab? (student of Abdullah Faisal - ultimate hater of salafis???)

Its just you Akh, as Al-Khataab has made a comment at the bottom hence his name comes under the comments on the right.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

My experience is that its not those at all , its brothers and sisters who blind follow one group so blindly, that they have a hatred for others that borders on madness.
They go to their talks, read their recommended literature only, their sites, their masjids.
Even amongst my small group of friends some have this mentality with other "off the manhaj" authors books , I'm just like get over yourselfs.



your exactly right, and as abu maryam said this is extreamism.

This happens in all groups, and when there is hizbiyyah and cultish behaviour rampant then you will see exactly the same things happening as you have in this article.

[Abu Sufyan]

Some of their lies are so hard to stomach. You may think that they have beautiful manners and characteristics because they are nice in front of you but behind your back it is completely different.

I've had first hand experience, I know one individual who they are against and they tell so many blatant lies (and i mean blatant), and these are not just restricted to aqeedah, they even tell lies about his personal life, and it is not just the 'ignorant' one it is coming from the leaders of the masjid itself.

May Allah guide them.

[kamran]

Assalam o alaikum,

One serious crime in such cases is the exposure of the common man to issues and debates which should be reserved for people of knowledge. We tend to be careless but issuing a specified rulings about individuals is no joke.

Just review the whole situation: What did that woman (the man's wife) really need to get into Paradise? A guarded tongue for one... and some other bits.

Regards,

Kamran

[C47]

nobody even knw's if this is true....

[Hamza]

my mistake.......

who is behind salafiburnout?

obviously this is an attempt is throw mud at salafi dawah

they are madhkalis not salafis. this stuff happens all the time with this crackpot dawah

[C47]

they are madhkalis not salafis. this stuff happens all the time with this crackpot dawah

no i mean who is behind that stupid site

[Nu7]

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum.

who is behind that stupid site

Probably some ex-madkhali's. Allahu A'lam.

Alhamdulillah this fitnah seems to be confined to the UK and US! I hear some of them won't even give Salaams to you unless they are sure that you are on the "correct Manhaj".

[Hamza]

wa alaykum salaam.

yep they like to cross the road beforehand :)

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum,

I think bilal phillips mentioned that people wouldnt give him salams. due to them listening to aboo khadeeja

[Brother_Mujahid]

So is this thread grounds for Sgt. Baker and Goofy-Kufi to write another 30 page PDF attacking Abuz-Zubayr and Islamic Awakening?

[Magoo]

we dont have that issue in luton, we have all the different parties here but everyone still gives salaam and everyone is still polite, a few years ago there were issues but now the younger generation dont seem to have the zealot like stupidity and arrogance that alot of madkhalis demonstrate

[Abu Sufyan]

as salaamu alaykum,

I think bilal phillips mentioned that people wouldnt give him salams. due to them listening to aboo khadeeja

They even crossed the road so they didn't have to give him salaams

[safdl]

In my town some people travelled 250+ miles to demonstrate with channel 4 tv crew that women need to have rights to enter their local masjid to pray salah.....

what baffled most was the need to travel 250+ miles when they passed at least 200+ mosques who are in the same boat on the way to our town.

Thats extremism to the next level....

[safdl]

One thing i still dont understand....

Who are the salafis?? is there a head office (HQ) somewhere? do they follow a group of imams from the same religious establishment ??

I mean im not knocking their efforts but i still dont get who they are and what they represent. These days your either a deobandi, barelwi or salafi. But in salafi there are soo many divisions that its hard to know which beliefs they represent.

also with regards to aqueedah another thing i dont understand is how important is it to have an aqueedah, for e.g like Allah SWT's attributes, Its a scholarly debate and has been running for hundreds of years, those personalities who were sooo learned that hadith used to flow from their tongues like water of a ducks back still differred, why cant we just say i dont know??

Would somebody care to elaborate pls.

[Abu Maryam PK]

we dont have that issue in luton, we have all the different parties here but everyone still gives salaam and everyone is still polite, a few years ago there were issues but now the younger generation dont seem to have the zealot like stupidity and arrogance that alot of madkhalis demonstrate
a friend from mednia uni told me that when the issues were hot, some medina uni students would not say salam to each other. i for one have been ignorant about this circus b4 coming to saudi a few years earlier.

[Nu7]

They even crossed the road so they didn't have to give him salaams

SubhanAllah that is indeed very saddening. We are supposed to be kind even to Kuffar yet these people would do that to a muslim. It must hurt to experience that type of behaviour from your so-called brothers in islam. May Allah Guide us all.

[Abu Sufyan]

SubhanAllah that is indeed very saddening. We are supposed to be kind even to Kuffar yet these people would do that to a muslim. It must hurt to experience that type of behaviour from your so-called brothers in islam. May Allah Guide us all.

Ameen.

There is a talk by Jamal ad-din zarabozo (ha) called contemporay salafi da'wah and he mentioned something that made so much sense. It was along the lines of, the term salafi is not just some articles of faith that you can just say, but rather it is a goal to strive for, to be like the salaf in all aspects of ones life (paraphrase)

I remember one brother came up to me asking about sheikh rabee, and what people say about sayyid qutb etc.

And I asked him some questions (not their type of questioning, so I can tell if they are off the manhaj)

I just asked him where is Allah and the proof for it? and who was the prophet's (saw) grandfather? And he didn't know - subhanallah.

Shaytaan strikes.

[abu_ibrahim]

Rabee al-Madkhali has single handily caused disunity for the Muslims in the West. Take the example of Abul Hasan al-Ma'ribee who was warned against by SPUBS in the West at the request of Rabee al-Madkhali. When in fact, 99% of people didn't even know who he is. There was a revert brother and when he was told he had to declare this Shaykh an innovator. He was worried and wanted to know if he would be asked about Abul Hasan in the grave as one of the questions?

[Noorah]

SubhanAllah what a sad story.

[Abdullah Abbas]

could someone briefly explain the mistakes of Dr.Rabea al Madkhali?

[WM]

a friend from mednia uni told me that when the issues were hot, some medina uni students would not say salam to each other. i for one have been ignorant about this circus b4 coming to saudi a few years earlier.

It would have been better if you'd never heard about it at all.

Fortunately, this foolishness is pretty much dead.

Apart from the odd pdf against Abuz Zubair, which is something we've grown fond of ;)

[Nu7]

You Takfeeri toddlers:D

[asharee_salafi]

There is only one Madkhali in the world who could be held responsible for this mess.

hey do you remember in your old forum archives, about this sister who's children were boycotted in nursery? lol...its exactly what was in the article.

[Abu Maryam PK]

It would have been better if you'd never heard about it at all.
i wish i cud turn the clock back

[asharee_salafi]

Extremism breads extremism, and in many cases, ridda. Those who are extreme will eventually burn out, wither thier excess is Madkhalism or the oppisite extreme, you just can't sustain youself. I'm living proof of that myself... at the end of the day we just have to pick up the pieces and move on the best we can...but for some of us the damage is beyond repair.

Also, the whole Salafi label was/is a disaster. The people who scream salafiyah the most are the furthest from the Salaf. The Ulema made a big mistake in promoting that word.

Well these simple minded people should of at least said about themselves 'don't blind follow men, i am just a man like you, if you find stronger proof you must follow it and not me' how ironic they quote the Imaams of the salaf in this but forget them for their own scholars...

[ZubairT]

Its a shame he is not using his discovery with regards to that cult beneficially and instead has just decided to go onto the other side of the fence and hurl mud at them. It ends up with one extreme to the other, and the heart is the thing that suffers since what is being done is little different.

[asharee_salafi]

what mud is he hurling at them? its merely relating an experience, is that wrong>?

[Adeel]

One thing i still dont understand....

Who are the salafis?? is there a head office (HQ) somewhere? do they follow a group of imams from the same religious establishment ??

I mean im not knocking their efforts but i still dont get who they are and what they represent. These days your either a deobandi, barelwi or salafi. But in salafi there are soo many divisions that its hard to know which beliefs they represent.

also with regards to aqueedah another thing i dont understand is how important is it to have an aqueedah, for e.g like Allah SWT's attributes, Its a scholarly debate and has been running for hundreds of years, those personalities who were sooo learned that hadith used to flow from their tongues like water of a ducks back still differred, why cant we just say i dont know??

Would somebody care to elaborate pls.


My dear brother it is the same case as is the case with deobandis and bareilvis. The Hayati mamati, the Tablighi Jamaat and jihadi Jamaat differences between deobandis and the issue of some bareilvis with their own pal Taahir Ul Qaadri. Alhamdulillah salafis are same in Aqeedah but they are extreme in some issues related to fiqh and the whole takfir and Irja war. Hope someone else clarifies and correct me if I am mistaken.

[Abu Ikrimah]

So is this thread grounds for Sgt. Baker and Goofy-Kufi to write another 30 page PDF attacking Abuz-Zubayr and Islamic Awakening?


As if the blighters need an excuse!!!

[safdl]

My dear brother it is the same case as is the case with deobandis and bareilvis. The Hayati mamati, the Tablighi Jamaat and jihadi Jamaat differences between deobandis and the issue of some bareilvis with their own pal Taahir Ul Qaadri. Alhamdulillah salafis are same in Aqeedah but they are extreme in some issues related to fiqh and the whole takfir and Irja war. Hope someone else clarifies and correct me if I am mistaken.

Sorry brother thats where you are wrong.

The deobandi movement was never part of the barelwi movement, its not like they separated...because they were never together. They never had the same teacher nor are they from the same age group, nor the same place.

The hayati/mamati thing is virtually non existent, iv never ever heard of it, nor has it been mentioned to me ever, it may exist but the mamati must be a minute minority who dont call themselves deobandi.

The TJ is and was found by the deobandi movement, they are still regarded as being hand in hand. both groups compliment each other, both groups have the same roots with the same founding scholars of the initial deobandi movement. There is no takfeer amongst them, they dont have any arguements like the salafi people do. The jihadi side im not at all familiar with but years ago before 9/11 i heard that Maulana Masood Azhar from pakistan and his movement all lived in awe of the deobandi movement (thats TJ's included) I recall him saying that they are not even worthy of lifting the shoes of the deoband scholars (i think he meant the golden age). It is widely believed that the taliban leader was a deobandi student....and they were heavily influenced on the deobandi school of thought so again no ikhtilaf there.


NOTE: this isnt a thread aimed at the difference in deobandi and salafi aqueedah, so please dont start deviating from the original subject...with respect i just dont feel that you have answered the question iv asked.

Deoband was founded by
Maulana Muhammad Qasim Nanautawi,
Haji Syed Muhamad Abid Deo*bandi,
Maulana Muhammad Yaqub Nanautawi,
Maulana Rafiuddin Deobandi,
Maulana Zulfiqar Ali Deobandi and
Maulana Fazlur Rahman Usmani Deobandi.
Maulana Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi.

Some prominent students then went over to saharanpur and other places close by and thus saharanpur was seen as a sister darul uloom to deoband. The TJ movements patron is Sheikh ul Hadith Maulana Zakariyya who had very close ties through family relation and relgious links to Maulana Ilyas...etc etc the rest will take too long to explain but i hope you get the jist. Its all one part of a wider movement from one stem which is deoband.

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With the upmost respect (i have to choose my words carefully as some of you guys are trigger happy) how did the salafi movement come about, you cant be salafis right cuz that generation has already passed us? is it that the objective is to try to imitate the righteous salaf??

Who were the scholars who started the movement

How old is the movement?

Who were the ones who promoted the no madhab policy, I know Sheikh Wahhab R.A promoted choosing one of the four schools.

Who are SPUBS?

Where is the base from where the salafi scholars are from? Medina Uni??

Why do some salafi scholars have beards and some not?

Why do the hardcore salafis hate the rest of the people to the extent they dont do salam to them?? judging by the medina university post im shocked to learn that fellow students stopped giving salam to each other....is it because they believe each other NOT muslim??

Why do some scholars share soo many hardcore differences even when they are from the same school?

Why so much disunity? At this point i thought id make reference to this answer below.

This is very good answer Regarding the differences of opinion which inevitably occur between the ‘Ulamaa (scholars) by Hadhrat Shaykh al-Hadith Maulana Zakariyya r.a writes in his Al-E’tidaal Fi Maraatib ar-Rijaal :

Let it be known that it is not unheard of to find differences of opinion among the true and sincere saintly ones. There has always been such differences and there always will be. however, there is no need for anyone who has acquired Islamic knowledge to be surprised at the fact that Ulama can differ. As for me, I am unconcerned about these differences. During the month of Shawwal, our class lectures commence and finish in Rajab of every year. During the course of these ten months, hardly a day passes when the lecturer does not say at least twenty times: ”Regarding this mas’alah, such and such an Imam believes this, whereas such and such an Imam holds a different view.” ”The Sahabas are of this opinion, whereas among the Tabi’een there are such and such differences of opinion.”

If we held that disagreement is a sign of lack of sincerity, it would cause us great anxiety and confusion because it would mean (May Allah forbid) that those saintly persons (May Allah be pleased with them all) will be excluded from the ranks of the saintly ones, just because they differ!


Why so much emphasis on aqueedah, if scholars differed over hundreds of years, why is it so important to follow something now and at the same time hold your aqueedah with so much weight that you denounce the great scholars from the history of islam due to his interpretation of hadith which differs from yours in relation to aqueedah? e.g where Allah is, attributes etc....Question - are we kafir if we say we are not knowledged in this matter??
Abdullah ibn ‘Umar, may Allah be pleased with him says: “Knowledge is of three types; the book that is forever speaking (Qur’an), an established sunnah, and ‘I do not know’

AI-Qasim (b. Muhammad b. Abu Bakr al-Siddique) said: "Indeed you ask about (such) things, which we didn't use to ask. You delve into things, which we didn't use to delve in and you ask about things I don't know what they are. Had we known them it wouldn't have been permissible for us to hide them".

Abdullah ibn ‘Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, also said: “It is part of knowledge for a person who does not know, to say Allah knows best

This is not meant as a dig at fellow salafi people from this forum, I respect some of you people and my belief is in total agreement with Shaikh ul Hadith Maulana Zakariya(r.a.) words about “the Ahlul Hadith and us”.

I have no enmity with any Ahul Hadith scholars, so long as they do not use any insulting or degrading words against our Imams. In my mind ‘Shari’at’ is only that which is contained in Allah’s word and the words and practices of His Messenger Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam. But in acting on the Hadith and in cross examining the Hadith, the research of the Imams is much more preferable to the research of a novice like myself. Then also, the era of the Imams was nearer to the era of the scholars of Hadith. For this reason the verdict of the Imams are more acceptable in the rejection and acceptance of Hadith than even the verdict of Muhadditheen and our research.

Maulana Rashid Ahmed Gangohi states....

Thus you should rather concentrate on these things that will guarantee you a place in paradise.

The love of Allah more than anything else in one’s heart
While refraining from customs which have no place in the Shari’ah, one should have faith in Pure Tawheed (monotheism, believing in the oneness of Allah Most high.)
The love of the Noble Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam) should be dominant over every other creation.
Every facet of life should be illuminated with the following of the Sunnah
There should be a love and desire to spread/propagate the Deen.

Maulana Ilyas r.a writes.....a great evil which is the source of a thousand evils these days and has deprived the Muslims of each other’s virtues and Islam of the collective goodness of the Muslims, is the disparagement of fellow Muslims. Every Muslim has taken it for granted that he is the embodiment of virtue while all other Muslims are mean, vicious and sinful, and hence, he alone is worthy of esteem. This attitude is responsible for all the ills and evils that are plaguing the religious and social life of Muslims.

NOTE: I have used deobandi scholars as references as those are the ones iv started to research thanks to abu alqamah.

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Novice guides to Ikhtilaf - Something the laymen of this forum need to learn and know before they go passing takfeer and making derogatory comments against scholars. Best bet is if your skilled in the subject comment on it, if not then dont offer opinions as most of us are not qualified. Baseless opinions create doubts, and if you can comprehend all that is below then open up the hadith books otherwise i believe you will misinterpret alot of things. Find a good scholar dont be a homemade hadith expert.

Writings from Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlawi

The Companions rarely asked him about such things. It is reported on the authority of 'Abd Allah b. 'Abbas R.A, as saying: "I have never seen a people better than the Companions of the Messenger of Allah R.A. They did not ask him (about anything) until he passed away except for thirteen questions, all of which are (mentioned) in the Qur'an. These include, "They ask you about the fighting in the sacred month, say fighting in it is a serious (offence)'', and "They ask you about menstruation'. He added: "They used to ask questions only about those things which were beneficial for them."

'Abd Allah b.'Umar R.A said: "Don't ask about that which did not happen, because I heard 'Umar ibn al-Khattab R.A cursing the one who asks questions about that which did not happen".

AI-Qasim (b. Muhammad b. Abu Bakr al-Siddique) said: "Indeed you ask about (such) things, which we didn't use to ask. You delve into things, which we didn't use to delve in and you ask about things I don't know what they are. Had we known them it wouldn't have been permissible for us to hide them".

examples of differences

Example (of this phenomenon) is the majority view that ramal in tawaf (circumambulation of the Ka'ba) is Sunnah. Ibn "Abbas, however, believed that it was done by the Prophet (PBUH) as a coincidence in response to an incident. And that was the(taunting) remarks by the polytheists that the fever of Yathrib (Madina) had weakened the Muslims. (Therefore in his opinion ramal was) not a Sunnah.

Among these (kinds of differences) was (also) the difference of assumption (al-wahm) in interpretation. For example, the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) performed hajj and was seen by (many) people. Some of them thought that he was Mutamatti', some considered him Quarin, others thought he was Mufrid.

Another example (of this kind is the one) reported by Abu Dawud (aI-Sijistani d.275/910) on the authority of Sa'id b. Jubair (d.95/713). He said: "I told 'Abd Allah b. 'Abbas that I was astonished at the (degree) of disagreement among the Companions of the Messenger of Allah over the ihlal of the Messenger of Allah when he put on ihram for hajj and performed the necessary acts of ihram". In response,' Abd Allah b.'Abbas said: "I know better about that. Truly it was the only pilgrimage of the Messenger of Allah and from there arose disagreement among them". The Messenger of Allah set out for hajj. After performing the two rak'at prayer in Dh'ul-Hulaifa Mosque he put on ihram in the same place and uttered talbiyah for hajj. After completing his two rak'at prayer, many people heard him saying that and remembered it. Then he embarked upon his journey and when his she-camel lifted him up he uttered talbiyah, and many people saw that. This is because people were coming (to him) in groups and so they heard him uttering talbiyah when his she-camel lifted him up, hence they said: "Surely the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) uttered talbiyah when his she-camel lifted him up". Then he continued his journey. When he ascended the top of the steep he uttered talbiyah and many people noticed that. So they said: "Indeed he uttered talbiyah only when he ascended the top of the steep". By Allah indeed he put on ihram and performed the necessary acts of ihram at his musallah and uttered talbiyah when his she-camel lifted him up, and he uttered talbiyah when he ascended the top of the steep".

These (differences also) took place because of the difference of inattentiveness and forgetfulness. An example of this is the report that Ibn 'Umar used to say: "The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) performed 'umra in Rajab". When 'A'isha R.A heard this, she ruled inattentiveness on his part.

These (differences also include) the difference of accurate understanding and retention (dabt). An example of this is what Ibn "Umar or 'Umar reported from the Prophet that the dead person is chastised because of the wailing of his family over him. "A'isha ruled that he did not perceive the Hadith in its context. "(Once) the Messenger of Allah was passing by (the grave of) a Jewess that he found her family wailing over her. There he said: "'They are wailing for her while she is being chastised in her grave". Hence he (Ibn 'Umar or 'Umar) considered chastisement a cause of bewailing and thought the rule was generally applicable to every dead person.

Among (these kinds of differences) was (also) their disagreement over (the interpretation of tbc cause of rule). An example of this is the (observance of) standing for funeral (procession). Some said this was to show respect for angles and therefore would include believer and nonbeliever alike. Others said it was because of the horror of death and would therefore include both of them. Hasan b. 'All R.A however, said: "(Once) a funeral procession of a Jew was passing by the Messenger of Allah PBUH that he stood up out of his dislike lest it pass over his head". Hence (this rule) specifically applies to non-believer. These (differences also) include their disagreement over reconciliation between the two contradictory (or inconsistent) Ahadith (al-jam' bayn al-mukhtalifain).

For example, the Messenger of Allah PBUH allowed mut 'a (temporary marriage) during the year of (the conquest of) Khaybar. He allowed it (again) in the year of awtas, and then he prohibited it. 'Abd Allah b. 'Abbas said: "The permission was (given) out of necessity and the prohibition (was made) in view of the cessation of necessity and (therefore) the law remains effective in that (final) form". The majority (of scholars), however, said: "The permission was (given) in the sense of permissibility and prohibition (was made) for its abrogation".

(Here is) another example (of this phenomenon). The Messenger of Allah prohibited from facing the qiblah (Ka 'ba) during istinja. A group of people believed in the generality (umum) of this rule, and that it was not abrogated. One year before he passed away, Jabir R.A saw him facing the qibla while urinating so he thought it an abrogation of previous prohibition. And (once) Ibn 'Umar R.A saw him answering the call of nature while be was backing towards the qibla and facing to Syria, therefore, he rejected their (above-mentioned) view.

A group (of scholars), however, reconciled between the two reports. Al- Sha'bi and others thought the prohibition was (specifically) related to the desert and that in lavatories there was no harm in facing and backing to (Ka 'ba). Another group believed the statement (of the Prophet was general and definite ('am muhkam) and that the action (of the
Prophet has the likelihood of being specific to the Prophet and therefore does not stand to be either abrogator or a specific matter (mukhassas).


In general the views (madhahib) of the Companions of the Prophet became
divergent and so the Followers learned from them whatever it was possible for them. As a result they remembered and comprehended whatever they heard of the Hadith of the Messenger of Allah and the views of the Companions. They reconciled between al-mukhtalifat (contradictory or inconsistent Ahadith) as much as it was possible for them. They also gave preference to some of the views (of the Companions) over others.

Some of these views became less significant in their opinion even though they were reported on the authority of great Companions such as the reported view of Ibn 'Umar and Ibn Mas'ud about (the validity of) tayammum for (ritually) impure person. This view became weak when the Ahadith transmitted by 'Ammar, 'Imran b. Husain (d.52/672) and others gained widespread currency.

By that time every scholar among the Followers had (developed) his own madhhab.

Consequently in every town an Imam was appointed. For example in Madina Sa'id b. alMusayyab (d.93AH/711AD) and Salim b.'Abd Allah b.'Umar who were succeeded by al-Zuhri,

Qadi Yahya b. Sa'id and Rabi'a b. Abu 'Abd al-Rahman (d.136AH/753AD); in Makkah 'Ata b. Abi Rabah , (d.114AH/732AD),

in Kufa Ibrahim al-Nakh'i (d.95AH/713AD) and, al-Sha’bi ('Amir b. Shrahil d.103AH/721AD);

in Basra Hasan al-Basri (d.110AH/728AD);

in Yemen Ta'us b. Kaysan

in Syria Makhul (al-Shami d.l18AH/736AD).

Allah made people's hearts, thirsty of their knowledge and they craved for it. From these scholars people learned Ahadith, fatawa and the views of the Companions, as well as the madhahib and investigations (developed) by
these scholars themselves.

People used to consult them for advice on legal matters and (thus) discussion on (such) issues became rotating among them. (As a result) disputes were referred to them (for solutions). Sa'id b. al musayyab, Ibrahim al-Nakh'i and people like them had collected the entire sections of Fiqh. In every field of Fiqh they had principles, which they had acquired from the predecessors. Sa'id and his companions were of the opinion that the people of Haramayn were the most reliable in Fiqh. The basis of their madhhab were the fatawa of 'Umar and 'Uthman R.A and their legal decisions, and the fatawa of 'Abd Allah b. 'Umar, 'A'isha and lbn Abbas R.A and the legal decisions of the judges of Madina. Out of all that they collected whatever Allah facilitated them. They examined it with a view of consideration and scrutiny. Of this whatever was agreed upon among the scholars of Madina they would adhere to it firmly, and on whatever there was disagreement among them they would accept (that view which was) the strongest and the most preferable. (The strength and preference of a view depended on the fact) that either because this was the opinion of the majority or because it was in concordance with a strong analogy or clear deduction of the Book (of Allah) and the Sunnah (of the Prophet PBUH and so on. And if they did not find the answer to the question in what they had collected from them (the 'ulama' of Madina), then they would deduce from their (salaf's) statement and search for the signs (al-ima) and alluded meanings (al-iqtida) (in the text). Thus they developed a collection of many masa 'il in every field (of Fiqh).

Ibrahim (al-Nakh'i) and his companions were of the opinion that 'Abd Allah b. Mas'ud R.A and his companions were the most reliable in Fiqh. This is just as 'Alqama said to Masruq (b. 'Abd al-Rahman al-Ajda' al-Hamdani d.62AH/681AD): "Is there anyone among the Companions more reliable (in Fiqh) than 'Abd Allah (b. Mas'ud)?" And Abu Hanifa R.A (d. 150AH/767AD) remarks to al-Auza'i ('Abd al-Rahman d.157AH/773AD): "Ibrahim is more knowledgeable than Salim (b.'Abd Allah b. 'Umar). If it were not for the excellence of Companionship, I would have said that 'Alqama is more knowledgeable than 'Abd Allah b.'Umar". And 'Abd Allah (ibn 'Umar) is (too well known).

Ibrahim's school of thought is based on the fatawa of 'Abd Allah b. Mas'ud and the legal decisions of 'Ali (b. Abi Talib R.A (d.40AH/660AD), and the decisions of Shuraih and other judges of Kufa. From all this he collected what Allah facilitated him and then he treated their traditions just as the people of Madina treated the traditions of their (scholars). Then he deduced the way they deduced, and this is how he developed a collection of many
masa 'il in every field of Fiqh.

Sa'id b. al-Musayyab was the spokesman of the jurists of Madina. He was the best of them at remembering the legal decisions of 'Umar and the Ahadith (reported) by Abu Huraira R.A On the other hand, lbrahim was the spokesman of the jurists of Kufa. Whenever they both spoke about something and did not attribute it to anyone, it was mostly (understood to be) attributed to one of the ancestors either expressly or by way of indication and other things
like that. Then the jurists of their respective cities would agree on it, adhere to both of them, comprehend it and make deduction on the basis of it, and Allah knows best.

Al-Insaf fi bayan sabab al-ikhtilaf - A rational explanation of difference of opinion (in Fiqh) by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlawi (r.a)

[Nu7]

I don't think anyone will spend their time on going through that LONG essay of yours, akhi.. but most of your questions have been dealt with before. You should probably use the search function before you ask all these questions.

[abdulmuhsee]

GAH! MUBTEDIS! I'M GOING TO BOYCOTT ALL OF YOU, BURN YOUR BOOKS, AND POST REFUTATIONS OF YOU ON SALAFITALK! MUAHAHAHAHAAA!

But on a serious note, I can relate to how this brother is feeling. I mean, I didn't lose a spouse or have anything life-changing happen like this brother did, but Madaakhila can be a scary environment, especially for someone who doesn't have enough knowledge to combat it, and even more especially in regards to name-dropping. I recently mentioned the name 'Feiz Muhammad' around a Madkhali when he asked if I have listened to any lectures lately, and he replied by saying, 'I call him Phase, not Feiz, because he's going through phase (of deviance),' and then he laughed, thinking it was somehow funny. And once I had a tasbeeh with me which I made myself from a mixture of acrylic beads and a few beads from a bracelet of my wife's, and when he saw it, he reached out to break it and called me a deviant, but alhamdulillah I witheld it from him. It's one thing to have your opinion, but to break and burn things differing from it is the height of idiocity. I don't necessarily blame Sh. Rabia for this, since, I think this problem is here in the U.S. because the majority of the Madkhali corpus is composed of former criminals and gangbangers who bring their bawdiness and bad manners to the Deen, and seem to have a natural arrogance that fits in perfectly with calling people deviants and confrontation. Allahu Alim, but based on my experience with them, this is what I see.

Alhamdulillah I have an excellent wife that doesn't get involved in these things, and if it wasn't for her, I might have gotten completely burned out from Islam altogether based on things like this. Like the brother said on the site, this has nothing to do with the salaf or following their methodology, but with the new extreme attitudes popping up in salafiyyah that have taken it to such nonsense.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum,

Perhaps the Salafi burnout issue is why i have dwelled looking into sufism. Trying to find something. Though i realize from the statement of imam malik rahimahullah concerning the Sunnah and that this is all we need and that looking for something other than that (like outside the sunnah) is basically like your not happy with the deen. This issue of the madkhali cult has led to divorces, apostasy, isolation, and many other harmful things to society. If you notice you will find that a lot of people think of Salafis to be a group of people that walk around always angry. May Allaah guide us all

[mosa]

as salaamu alaykum,

Perhaps the Salafi burnout issue is why i have dwelled looking into sufism. Trying to find something. Though i realize from the statement of imam malik rahimahullah concerning the Sunnah and that this is all we need and that looking for something other than that (like outside the sunnah) is basically like your not happy with the deen. This issue of the madkhali cult has led to divorces, apostasy, isolation, and many other harmful things to society. If you notice you will find that a lot of people think of Salafis to be a group of people that walk around always angry. May Allaah guide us all

wa alaykum salam,

one of my friend and very distant relative, i believe has madhkali tendencies. I only realised that after joining this forum. He does not talk to me or anyone in masjid and rarely comes to the masjid. He recommended me SPUBS site. He thinks that practically everyone(muslims ) in my country is deviant. I dont know how to approach him to tell him that it is a wrong attitude. May Allah guide us all.

[Ibn Jafar]

Madhkalis are psychological terrorists.

[Abu Maysara]

Well, dont point fingers while this forum is a cult itself, the Sahawi sect built around the head admin AZ,who lately is calling anyone differing with him for Taghout and Ibn Saloul. The arrogant and lack of humbleness behavior of AZ is not far away from the Madkhalis, not to say its actually even worse , and the cheerleaders of AZ are silent when their leader pour out all bad words he knows, one can only ask; Are these the fruits of learning at the Medina Univ.?
No one can deny the twisted manhaj of madkhalis, but don't throw stones while being surrounded by glass.....

[Abuz Zubair]

LOL Talk about pot calling the kettle black! Typical of Ibn Salul thing to do :)

[Abu Maysara]

LOL Talk about pot calling the kettle black! Typical of Ibn Salul thing to do :)

i throw a piece of cheese outside the rat hole and out came the rat...wonder where on the forum you where but i managed to get you to this thread...the Sahawis cant resist defending their baatil when someone expose them :p

[Abu Talhah]

I don't get why people refer to the Madakheelah as Salafis. I mean, how is it a "Salafi" burnout, its a Hizbiyyah/Madkhalee/Asabiyyah burnout!

[AbuUsama]

Well, dont point fingers while this forum is a cult itself, the Sahawi sect built around the head admin AZ,who lately is calling anyone differing with him for Taghout and Ibn Saloul. The arrogant and lack of humbleness behavior of AZ is not far away from the Madkhalis, not to say its actually even worse , and the cheerleaders of AZ are silent when their leader pour out all bad words he knows, one can only ask; Are these the fruits of learning at the Medina Univ.?
No one can deny the twisted manhaj of madkhalis, but don't throw stones while being surrounded by glass.....LOL Talk about pot calling the kettle black! Typical of Ibn Salul thing to do :)i throw a piece of cheese outside the rat hole and out came the rat...wonder where on the forum you where but i managed to get you to this thread...the Sahawis cant resist defending their baatil when someone expose them :p

IA Head Admin got ambushed !! :D

[Adnan Jalaal]

I'm sorry dude, but if I had an issue with this 'cultish forum', I wouldn't appear on the forum too much.

[Skillganon]

Well, dont point fingers while this forum is a cult itself, the Sahawi sect built around the head admin AZ,who lately is calling anyone differing with him for Taghout and Ibn Saloul.

Salaam,

What is the sahawi sect bro?

Just when you got your head around one, out pops another one. :confused:

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

is that all that the brothers here who dislike bro AZ Um Abdullah et al say?

I mean fair enough you disagree with them because you like extreamism and others don't, but i light of what was needed in terms of clarification of matters of 'aqeedah, fiqh etc can you really put this forum down? I don't think so - wal-lillahil-hamd.

and even in other matters.

Also instead of going on about the head admin this and that if there is a response to this: http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=90631&postcount=22 it wuld be much appreciated.

jzk

[BintYussuf]

Sad post, may Allah guide us, ameen
But I think Brother is taking his hate for certain group of Salafis to an extreme...read the other posts on the blog. :S
I saw slander and accusations against Ulema of past like Ahmed ibn Hanbal, Sh. ibn AbdulWahhab and Ibn Tamiyyah. Then saw this weird post about supposed Salafis starving their child, subhanALLAH

I mean yes, some people who ascribe to Salafiyyah can be harsh, okay understatement, they might even ruin your life as they did with this bro, but that doesn't mean you have to turn into a sufi/shii/[insert] out of anger, subhanAllah.

And we too must not imitate the rude manners and methods of SOME salafi brothers and sisters, may Allah guide us all, ameen
If we do, then we are contradicting ourselves,


Salaam

[Basic Muslim]

He has written essentially what is a part two to his original post:

http://salafiburnout.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/youre-quite-hostile/

[Nu7]

I think I will give him a link to this thread.

[Nu7]

I just invited him to post his opinion on some of the things that have been discussed in this thread.

Obviously he thinks that "Salafi" = Madkhali.

Let's hope he joins the forum, insha'Allah.

[safdl]

Brother, you should be hostile at the Shaytan because he is the ENEMY!!! Not your Muslim brothers and sisters who are trying to practice this deen according to pure Islam. Yeah people make mistakes and so you and I. Do we want people to continuously throwing our mistakes up in our faces? We want Allah to forgive us right? We as a people are too quick to blame others for our misfortunes and not ourselves!!!!

You and your wife are to blame for what is going on with your children. Why would you argue infront of kids anyway? And why would a baby be running around sayin “dawatus Salafiyyah” when he can hardly talk? Shouldn’t we be teaching our children about tawheed first.

Ignorance is the cause of a lot of mistakes we make in our lives and they affect our children. Too bad our children have to suffer. And I pray that you aren’t bad mouthing their Mother to them! I would hate to see the results of that!

This is truly a sad situation. You should seek refuge with Allah from the Shaytan, rectify your own affairs and keep your mouth closed and try to raise your kids on that which is correct.

Because having this blog is only going to make your situation worst and call people to outwardly display people’s sins and fall into something that might be haram.

On Yawmul-Qiyyamah, we all will see what will happen with what we did. Get over it and prepare yorurself and your kids for then.

May Allah guide you and rectify your affairs. Ameen


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Talk about being hardcore to the bone!!!

[Skillganon]

Brother, you should be hostile at the Shaytan because he is the ENEMY!!! Not your Muslim brothers and sisters who are trying to practice this deen according to pure Islam. Yeah people make mistakes and so you and I. Do we want people to continuously throwing our mistakes up in our faces? We want Allah to forgive us right? We as a people are too quick to blame others for our misfortunes and not ourselves!!!!

You and your wife are to blame for what is going on with your children. Why would you argue infront of kids anyway? And why would a baby be running around sayin “dawatus Salafiyyah” when he can hardly talk? Shouldn’t we be teaching our children about tawheed first.

Ignorance is the cause of a lot of mistakes we make in our lives and they affect our children. Too bad our children have to suffer. And I pray that you aren’t bad mouthing their Mother to them! I would hate to see the results of that!

This is truly a sad situation. You should seek refuge with Allah from the Shaytan, rectify your own affairs and keep your mouth closed and try to raise your kids on that which is correct.

Because having this blog is only going to make your situation worst and call people to outwardly display people’s sins and fall into something that might be haram.

On Yawmul-Qiyyamah, we all will see what will happen with what we did. Get over it and prepare yorurself and your kids for then.

May Allah guide you and rectify your affairs. Ameen


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Talk about being hardcore to the bone!!!

Salaam,

Although I believe the person is confused about what salafi actually is, he has a right to speak freely about the cult he joined as this is something open (displayed) and effecting the community as a whole.

It literally is destroying many peoples life. You can't ask people to be remain quite, turn the other cheek and let themgo on a rampage.
It absolutely does not make any sense to let it continue and not warn about it.

[Ibn malik]

I'm worried that he may become, or even has become, a plaything in the hands of the sufis who were the first to champion this fantasy Salafiyyah "burning out".

If you look at some sufi websites you will see the utter ecstacy that they feel when a former 'Salafi' (madhkhali) strays onto their path.

[asharee_salafi]

amazing blog, i really like it, its so annoying when people criticise good work.

[safdl]

http://salafiburnout.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/youre-quite-hostile/#comment-88


I think I know who you are Mr “Salafi Burnout”. You were very stubborn upon sticking with the likes of Abu Muslimah and even the likes of Ali Timimi and IANA who reviled the rulers rather then holding to the ulamaa of this Ummah. THAT is why you were boycotted and treated harshly. THAT is why your family fell apart. You should have stood with the ulamaa. Stop blaming Ahlus Sunnah for your problems. You got what calamity you deserved for not sticking to the ulamaa. You are weak and sorry excuse for a man. You deserve to be alone you deviant

http://salafiburnout.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/youre-quite-hostile/#comment-91

Let me also add that this man was given SEVERAL chances to recant his association with the deviants that he associated with. The Salafis were merciful with him by giving him several opportunities but HE is the one that steadfastly refused to obey the words of the ulamaa that were presented to him

[Nu7]

LOL@these Madkhalis. SubhanAllan, such arrogance.

Now they are blaming HIM for the fitnah they caused in his household.

[Hamza]

I think I know who you are Mr “Salafi Burnout”. You were very stubborn upon sticking with the likes of Abu Muslimah and even the likes of Ali Timimi and IANA who reviled the rulers rather then holding to the ulamaa of this Ummah. THAT is why you were boycotted and treated harshly. THAT is why your family fell apart. You should have stood with the ulamaa. Stop blaming Ahlus Sunnah for your problems. You got what calamity you deserved for not sticking to the ulamaa. You are weak and sorry excuse for a man. You deserve to be alone you deviant


"This Is Our Creed And This is What We Call People To Believe In"

The Madhkali Dawah

[Nu7]

Adam, you are from the Khawaarij that disparage the rulers and the ulamaa. Sh. Rabee has been praised by ALL of the ulamaa and yet you call those who love him and listen to his opinions “madkhali” as if the Shaykh has started his own sect. This is ridiculous. Abu Khadijah has also been praised by the ulamaa for bring the dawah to the West though people like you may hate it

lol, so now we are Khawaarij?? How ironic.

[safdl]

Man do these guys have any brains at all?? talk about TOTALLY CONFUSED AND LOST IN THE HEAD. should i laugh at this guys ignorance or his blind following??

http://salafiburnout.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/life-after-being-in-the-salafi-cult/#comment-83

Salafi Burnout, the brother asked a legitimate question… “Are you calling the Prophet and his companions and what they followed a cult ?” Because this is what Salafiyyah is, not what “you people” do or say. SubhannAllah! This is a clearly a test for you and your have to beseech Allah for His help and guidance! We all have made mistakes along the way and in sha’ Allah, will continue to make mistakes. We are human and Allah loves when his slave begs for forgiveness.

So brother, what are you going to do when the kafirs start to get to you????

May Allah guide you and us all. Ameen!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I mean come on!!! should you pray that Allah makes you make mistakes?? is that what they teach in the cults?

[Abd al-Haqq Marshall]

The Madkhalis believe that Ahl as-Sunnah consists solely of Rabee al-Madkhali and 20 guys who live in Philadelphia and Birmingham.

[abu_ibrahim]

The Madkhalis believe that Ahl as-Sunnah consists solely of Rabee al-Madkhali and 20 guys who live in Philadelphia and Birmingham.

lol, you forgot Troid in Canada.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as-salaamu alaykum,

Can someone enlighten us with a list of errors shaykh rabee ibn hadee al-madkhali has?

[abu_ibrahim]

as-salaamu alaykum,

Can someone enlighten us with a list of errors shaykh rabee ibn hadee al-madkhali has?

I would say he was the Mastermind for the disunity of Muslims in the west. Muslims are already a minority, but he caused further splits in USA, Canada and UK.

[Abu Maysara]

Salafi Burnout, the brother asked a legitimate question… “Are you calling the Prophet and his companions and what they followed a cult ?” Because this is what Salafiyyah is

the Prophet and his companions are free from your Da'wah and to that which you call to, you are the ones that go so such extreme that the Islamic greeting is not conveyed to those that differ with you, that is what Rabee' Mad Khaali's Da'wah do to ppl...may Allah swt break his back and those that follows him, if Guidance is not written for them.

So brother, what are you going to do when the kafirs start to get to you????
well, what usually happens is that they get to a muslim because ppl from your sect report them to the authorities..

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

jazakallah khayr,

I just want to know in detail. Like any particular cases?

[Ibn malik]

as-salaamu alaykum,

Can someone enlighten us with a list of errors shaykh rabee ibn hadee al-madkhali has?
He teaches people that mubtadi'oon (or devients) should be immediatly boycotted and there should no compassion shown to them, nor should one look for their good points. This is different to the avarage sinner, be he big or small in his sins, where he should be given da'wah and brought back with compassion and care.

This differentiation itself is a bid'ah for which Mr Rabee' should be himslef be castigated, as both the one engaged in sin and bid'ah remain within Islam therefore requiring our care and not belligerence.

Also, carrying on from his first bid'ah of showing utter hatred towards "deviants", he then went on a trigger happy inquisition of what he felt to be deviance, which resulted in a lot of good brothers being labbelled this.

[Um Ismail]

Couldn't it be possible that the fault is not with shaykh Rabee' but rather with those who "follow" him?

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum

jazakallah khayr,

is there any works of his that specifically discuss issues like these?

[Um Ismail]

Brother Ibn Malik, would you mind providing proof for what you're saying, as I have actually heard lectures by shaykh Rabee' that speak otherwise?

jazakom Allah khayr

[Nu7]

well, what usually happens is that they get to a muslim because ppl from your sect report them to the authorities..

lol, that actually made me laugh.

[Ibn malik]

Have you read the man speaking himself? I know the Spubs bunch are able to make the greatest of Men seem evil (look at their portrayal of Bin Baz (ra)), but this requires legitimacy from at least one "scholar" and this man has become that person. If he is not responsible then he is certainly very irresposible with his fatawa as they are very harsh and open to distortion...

Lol just look at his ibtida' of Yasir Qadhi... Made me laugh

[safdl]

the Prophet and his companions are free from your Da'wah and to that which you call to, you are the ones that go so such extreme that the Islamic greeting is not conveyed to those that differ with you, that is what Rabee' Mad Khaali's Da'wah do to ppl...may Allah swt break his back and those that follows him, if Guidance is not written for them.


well, what usually happens is that they get to a muslim because ppl from [U]your sect report them to the authoritiesU]..

This is what i love about some of you guys....tell me what cult are you in??

99% of the times you guys are taking the angry pill...then you dont bother to read or understand whats being posted, you have a quick skim through the post and go OFF ON ONE!!!

I merely pointed towards the posts made by some ignorant follower of Sh. Rabee and i get labelled as being one of his followers :confused: :confused: :eek: :eek: :( :(

You call them ignorant, brother you need to have a long look in the mirror. im not a salafi madkhali or anything, i copied and pasted something, THATS ALL.

[Abu Maysara]

i copied and pasted something, THATS ALL. i see..ok , if you are not from that cult, then its my fault. there is so much rubbish written by those guys i tend to scans thru their posts as i wish not waste time read their garbage. but your posts definitely looked suspicious ...

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum

I think brother safdl takes from the ahnaf. alaysa kadhalik>?

[safdl]

but your posts definitely looked suspicious ...

Suspicious my left arm!! lol

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=113823&postcount=88

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=113399&postcount=80


tell me how am i promoting his school or whatever he calls it?

[Um Ismail]

Have you read the man speaking himself? I know the Spubs bunch are able to make the greatest of Men seem evil (look at their portrayal of Bin Baz (ra)), but this requires legitimacy from at least one "scholar" and this man has become that person. If he is not responsible then he is certainly very irresposible with his fatawa as they are very harsh and open to distortion...

Lol just look at his ibtida' of Yasir Qadhi... Made me laugh

Hm, akhi, there were scholars greater then shaykh Rabee' whose texts have been distorted, how can you blame the scholars for this akh? Insha'Allah i will make it my mission to find the recordings I once heard from shaykh Rabee' amongst which he is actually advising against such extremism, so it is the people who make certain scholars infallible to be blamed for their extremism not the scholars akh. I read some of his books as well and don't see him saying anything new as in everything he says he is preceeded by earlier scholars, and if he has mistakes, does that lower his status or expell him from Ahlus Sunnah? All I know the flesh of the scholars is poison.

[Abu Maysara]

Suspicious my left arm!! lol

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=113823&postcount=88

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=113399&postcount=80


tell me how am i promoting his school or whatever he calls it?

hehehe...your message is clear now...no offense inshAllah

[safdl]

Hm, akhi, there were scholars greater then shaykh Rabee' whose texts have been distorted, how can you blame the scholars for this akh? Insha'Allah i will make it my mission to find the recordings I once heard from shaykh Rabee' amongst which he is actually advising against such extremism, so it is the people who make certain scholars infallible to be blamed for their extremism not the scholars akh. I read some of his books as well and don't see him saying anything new as in everything he says he is preceeded by earlier scholars, and if he has mistakes, does that lower his status or expell him from Ahlus Sunnah? All I know the flesh of the scholars is poison.

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/s...3&postcount=88

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/s...9&postcount=80

where does this poison come from?? do your scholars teach you to not respect the deviants or the ones who have strayed??

[C47]

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum.



Probably some ex-madkhali's. Allahu A'lam.

Alhamdulillah this fitnah seems to be confined to the UK and US! I hear some of them won't even give Salaams to you unless they are sure that you are on the "correct Manhaj".

I think the thread title should be edited. This is not responsible behaviour.

[safdl]

Thank you Akhi for sharing your story. May Allah help us, and guides us to the straight path, ameen. I am a student of Madinah University, Saudi Arabia; and have been here ever since for nearly a decade.

Everybody who knows about this Hardcore Salafi sect, knows that it erupted from here. I apologize for the “straight up” method of the following, but there is no need to beat around the bush with the sneaky minds of these Hardcore Salafis. Starting off as something nice, and then brutally stripped of its nobility only to be used as a way of spreading hatred and “letting off one’s steam”.

Everyone should refrain from this name, since it has been mutilated by the actions and words of fools and the misguided. No doubt if you want to get all technical and linguistic about it, then the word “salafi” is from the noblest of names. But in the sense of the FIRST thought which comes to mind when you hear the name…not a pretty picture.

I sometimes picture some local brother changing his name to Abu Abdul Haqq Al’Atharee As’Salafi fire off his trigger mouse finger 25hrs a day reading and refuting with some anonymous ID name laughing and grinning. Yeah, that’s one definition in a sense of the mutilated “salafi” word. Allah has named you “Muslims”, as stated in the Quran. Is that not good enough for you? Is that not the ultimate definition of true Tawheed? Don’t take things out of context and give me that crap of “differentiation”. This cult has destroyed homes and masjids. They are from the worst enemies of Islam in our time. I advise the brothers and sisters whom Allah as guided to the Haqq and away from this sect, to have certainty that what the Hardcore Salafis are on is MISGUIDANCE.

To add to this, I’ve asked many scholars about this issue, just so I can be certain myself. One of them was Shaykh Abdur’Razzaaq, head the department of Aqeedah in the University of Madinah, and son of one of the great scholars of our time, the Muhadith Shaykh Abdul Muhsin Al’Abbaad. I asked him about the Salafis. Are they on the truth? Where is my position from them? Where he cut me off and replied, “Stay away from them”. I said, well shouldn’t I do something to oppose them then? He said, “Don’t waste your time. You can accomplish much more doing something else”. Stand firm brothers and sisters. Don’t be intimidated by these Salafis, rather make dua for them. I cried for 1 month straight when I realized this was not the Islam that I had accepted. May Allah guide us all, ameen.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can someone please verify if the above posted in bold is true?? i know the reference is probably towards hardcore salafis here but i find it hard to believe that its true, im actually siding with the salafis here so dont be haste in your responses.

[WM]

He intends Spubbers and the like.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as-salaamu alaykum,

I wish things were just simple and not all this sectarianism. If salafiyah creed is correct and the manhaj is correct, then finding those who it would be good to take from is a very hard task especially in this age and time.

[Um Ismail]

I really don't think the problem is with the scholars but with the people who make them infallible, so one group ends up overpraising and the other group who has a strife with the former ends up disparaging the scholars, Allahu A'lam. I've also noticed how some take certain fatawa/speech of some scholars about PARTICULAR individuals and then apply these fatawa/speech on everyone they "think" resembles the individual that has been criticised, refuted, warned against etc. While those same scholars whose speech has been misapplied are specific and would handle things case by case, Allahu A'lam, it's just my observation. I think it is time we humble ourselves and realize our status and the status of the scholars is not the same. Plus if we can accept the truth that is found with the kuffar while rejecting their falsehood, it is that much more incumbent upon us to accept the truth that is found with the Muslims, especially scholars.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum,

I totally agree. What i mean is it is difficult to find brothers to sit with when all this fitnah is going on. I dont mean its difficult to know what ulama to go to.

[Um Ismail]

Wa alaykum assalam akhi,

Oh sorry my comment was not in response to yours, just generally spoken. Sorry if it came across otherwise, my fault. I totally agree with what you're saying.

[Abdullah Abbas]

Hm, akhi, there were scholars greater then shaykh Rabee' whose texts have been distorted, how can you blame the scholars for this akh? Insha'Allah i will make it my mission to find the recordings I once heard from shaykh Rabee' amongst which he is actually advising against such extremism, so it is the people who make certain scholars infallible to be blamed for their extremism not the scholars akh. I read some of his books as well and don't see him saying anything new as in everything he says he is preceeded by earlier scholars, and if he has mistakes, does that lower his status or expell him from Ahlus Sunnah? All I know the flesh of the scholars is poison.

he is a dr not a shaikh and did you read his arabic books or just a few english translations @ spubs ,

[Abd al-Haqq Marshall]

The five pillars of the Madkhali religion:

1. Walaa for the kuffar: The governments and authorities of kuffar nations are to be followed in all things. You are never to say anything bad about them. Criticizing Israel or America is Qutbi-Suroori-Takfeeri-Khariji behaviour.

2. Baraa for the Muslims: All Muslims (except a bunch of ex-convicts from Philadelphia) are mubtadi'oon, and should be shunned, cursed, and insulted in PDF form all day everyday. Don't be fooled. Even though Bilal Philips, Anwar Awlaki, Jamal Zarabozo, Ali at-Tamimi, etc. are the most famous and successful propagators of the Salafi dawah in the west, you are to hate them for some vague, non-specific offense they are alleged to have commited.

3. The Infallibility of the Sa'udi Monarchy: The Sa'udi Kings are infallible and criticizing them in anyway makes you a Qutbi-Suroori-Takfeeri-Khariji.

4. Denial of Jihaad: There is no Jihaad in the world. Showing any concern or compassion for Muslims in Palestine, Chechnya, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. is Qutbi-Suroori-Takfeeri-Khariji behaviour.

5. Welfare fraud: Have all your "wives" (baby-mamas) get on welfare as single mothers. Beg from the kuffar government. Never get a job. Just sit at the Madkhali masjid all day insulting Abuz-Zubair and inventing new alliterative insults for him.

[Um Ismail]

he is a dr not a shaikh and did you read his arabic books or just a few english translations @ spubs ,

Your opinions are insignificant to me on who is or isn't a shaykh. While your talent for belittling people is amazing, I do not believe you have authority over me so I don't have to answer to you about what where and in which language I read, but for your information since I sense an onset of labels, even if silent, no I am not a member of the "spubs cult" nor do I consider myself a follower or SHAYKH Rabee', there are people alhamdulillah who are balanced in their approach and don't ascribe to either extreme (yours or that of those who make him out to be infallible). And what would be wrong with translations even if they do come from spubs, many a hater of spubs has bought books from them and benefited from them, so what's your point?

[Skillganon]

Your opinions are insignificant to me on who is or isn't a shaykh. While your talent for belittling people is amazing, I do not believe you have authority over me so I don't have to answer to you about what where and in which language I read, but for your information since I sense an onset of labels, even if silent, no I am not a member of the "spubs cult" nor do I consider myself a follower or SHAYKH Rabee', there are people alhamdulillah who are balanced in their approach and don't ascribe to either extreme (yours or that of those who make him out to be infallible). And what would be wrong with translations even if they do come from spubs, many a hater of spubs has bought books from them and benefited from them, so what's your point?

The brother Abdullah made a statement and asked you a question.

Did he lie? What if he said is correct?

[Um Ismail]

Brother Skillgannon,

Did I lie?

I am not so naive to think that this line of questioning leads to anything beneficial. The brother has no need to assume anything about me simply because I defended the shaykh. I did not say he did or did not lie, and I am not going to get into this years old discussion that never seems to end, my point is simply, whether one considers him a scholar or not, there's no need to backbite people here simply because of his fatwa that was posted here. I don't believe in chasing after faults of Muslims and I don't believe the comments against him were necessary or beneficial.
I hope at least this much we can unite upon without reviving the same old fitna.

Anyway, after reading some of the very good advice from some members on this forum, I think I need to use better judgement myself which topics to engage in insha'Allah since no one understands one another anymore it seems and it becomes useless and annoying (starting with myself and my comments) after a while. So if you see me engaging in such "debates" again, do me a favour and remind me please (whoever reads this, and gently though, I hope).

Jazakom Allah khayr

[Skillganon]

Brother Skillgannon,

I am not so naive to think that this line of questioning leads to anything beneficial. The brother has no need to assume anything about me simply because I defended the shaykh. I did not say he did or did not lie, and I am not going to get into this years old discussion that never seems to end, my point is simply, whether one considers him a scholar or not, there's no need to backbite people here simply because of his fatwa that was posted here. I don't believe in chasing after faults of Muslims and I don't believe the comments against him were necessary or beneficial.
I hope at least this much we can unite upon without reviving the same old fitna.

He was not backbiting.

[Um Ismail]

Brother,

Look, I did not say anywhere 'he' was backbiting, I am not singling out, I am looking at the whole thread.

My whole point is this and after that I am leaving this discussion insha'Allah:

Abu Hurairah radiallahu anhu said: The Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said, "Do you know what is backbiting?'' The Companions said: "Allah and His Messenger know better.'' Thereupon he said, "Backbiting is talking about your brother in a manner which he dislikes.'' It was said to him: "What if my brother is as I say?'' He said, "If he is actually as you say, then that is backbiting; but if that is not in him, that is slandering.''
[Muslim].

Although I don't see it, I ask Allah for forgiveness and then anyone else here whom I have possibly offended, injusted, etc for forgiveness as well.

Wassalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah

[Skillganon]

Salaam

Ok sis, I understand. Jazak Allah khair for the reminder. I hope I did not sound like I was interrogating you. Smile.

Wassalaam.

[Um Ismail]

Salaam

Ok sis, I understand. Jazak Allah khair for the reminder. I hope I did not sound like I was interrogating you. Smile.

Wassalaam.'

Wa alaykum salam

Thank you brother, jazakom Allah khayr. I hope I don't sound like a know-it-all either, I do realize that I tend to correct people on this forum a lot and I know the reasons for that but still I won't seek excuses for myself and I probably need to stop that. I think today no one trusts anyones' sincerity anymore and my whole thing was on the Day of Judgement we won't be questioned why we did not disparage such and such, but we will probably be questioned why we did especially if we've injusted someone.

And yes you are a "class A interrogator", good job. JK

Jazakom Allah khayr akhi

wassalamu alaykum

[Skillganon]

'

Wa alaykum salam

Thank you brother, jazakom Allah khayr. I hope I don't sound like a know-it-all either, I do realize that I tend to correct people on this forum a lot and I know the reasons for that but still I won't seek excuses for myself and I probably need to stop that. I think today no one trusts anyones' sincerity anymore and my whole thing was on the Day of Judgement we won't be questioned why we did not disparage such and such, but we will probably be questioned why we did especially if we've injusted someone.

And yes you are a "class A interrogator", good job. JK

Jazakom Allah khayr akhi

wassalamu alaykum

Maybe their is the problem. Here is a tip, be more patient. Get a feel of the forum, get to know the members here than you would end up making less mistakes or getting into the useless banter. That goes for everyone new here.

[Um Ismail]

Barak Allah feekom you're probably right akhi, I'll try to keep this in mind it's a very good advice insha'Allah.

jazakom Allah khayr

[justabro]

So his followers don't even twist his words? Like he really is as crazy as them?

He is the worst of them. Pure scumbag. Read enough of his "refutations" and ask enough of those who have inside info about him and you will realize, he's deliberately malicious.

[Ibn Jafar]

He is the worst of them. Pure scumbag. Read enough of his "refutations" and ask enough of those who have inside info about him and you will realize, he's deliberately malicious.

Well... I guess so...

[justabro]

enjoy:

http://ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showpost.php?p=208783&postcount=13

[Ibn Jafar]

enjoy:

http://ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showpost.php?p=208783&postcount=13

sorry, only english bro..

[Brother_Mujahid]

The rise and fall of the ’salafi dawah’ in the US:

http://umarlee.com/2007/01/31/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-salafi-dawah-in-the-us-final/

[Um Ismail]

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/s...3&postcount=88

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/s...9&postcount=80

where does this poison come from?? do your scholars teach you to not respect the deviants or the ones who have strayed??


I am not sure I understand your quoting me and your line of questioning. But it seems here to defend shaykh rabee equals defending hizbiyyah so much so that one holds responsibility and has to answer for all.

May Allah guide us all.

[Muslim4life101]

Tragic story.I am angry that because of them she left islam.May Allah guide her back to islam.That poor soul didnt even know there are different groups in islam.

159. And by the Mercy of Allah, you dealt with them gently. And had you been severe and harsh*hearted, they would have broken away from about you; so pass over (their faults), and ask (Allah's) Forgiveness for them; and consult them in the affairs. Then when you have taken a decision, put your trust in Allah, certainly, Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).

May Allah keep us away from severe , harshhearted and arrogance.

I see the discussions between salafis(madkhali) vs other salafis. Some even make takfeer on each others or call names each others. I find that very disturbing.The best thing i do is ignore it. Allah swt didnt make religion too difficult for us,but some of them seem to make islam a very difficult religion.

[Um Ismail]

I agree this is sad and those people are just to extreme. But I don't know if one can completely blame them for someone's leaving Islam.

I have a cousin who is the same way, "admirer of the spubs" to put it lightly, and he chastised me several times for so much as going to websites such as islamway (for sisters), or anything else that wasn't recommended by the Spubs crew. Even asking questions, refusing to hold a certain opinion and wanting to do more research before blindly following an opinion or a scholar meant to him that I am questioning scholars and that I am playing with fire, i.e. in danger of falling into bid'ah, etc. Befriending a sister or discussing with sisters whose stance towards Spubs is unknown, or who take from Bilal Philips and the likes is an absolute no-no, since they may "cause me to fall into bid'ah and misguidance". And this is my family, him and I are of the few in our family who "practise Islam". Anyway, the point is, Allah is the one who guides and misguides whom He wills, I know people can make it very hard for a person, but I don't think it is people who can make one apostate. Allahu A'lam. May Allah open her heart and guide her to Islam.

[Abuz Zubair]

enjoy:

http://ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showpost.php?p=208783&postcount=13
WHAT IS THIS?!?!

ربيع يعزو أثراً في مسند أبي يعلى إلى كتاب (فتح المجيد)!! <o></o>
ذكر الحافظ أثر ابن مسعود: من أتى عرافاً.. الخ. (2/529)، وقال ربيع في تخريجه: "(2) أخرجه أبو يعلى. انظر: فتح المجيد شرح كتاب التوحيد لعبد الرحمن بن حسن (ص290)" أهـ. <o></o>
قلتُ: لو صنع هذا طالب في قسم العقيدة لوُبّخ على مثل هذا العزو، فكيف بباحث يعد لنيل (الدرجة العالية) في علوم الحديث فيحيل عزو المتقدم على المتأخر؟! This is hilarious:

ربيع يزعم أن ابن حبان من علماء الجغرافيا!! <o></o>
ترجم ربيع لابن حبان فقال: "هو الإمام محمد بن حبان.. علاّمة محدث جغرافي(!)" ((النكت: 1/270 تعليق 4)، وأحال ترجمته على تذكرة الحفاظ (3/920) ومعجم البلدان (1/415). <o></o>
وبالرجوع إلى هذين المصدرين لم نجد ذكراً لجغرافية ابن حبان المزعومة، والمذكور فيهما أن ابن حبان كان عالماً بالطب والنجوم، فلا أدري من أين أتى بذلك؟! ويغلب على ظني أنه لما وجد صاحب المعجم قد ذكر البلدان التي رحل إليها ابن حبان وأبرز الشيوخ الذين سمع منهم في تلك البلاد اعتقد أن ذلك دليل على علم ابن حبان بالجغرافيا!! فهل يسوغ لنا ـ على ضوء هذا الفهم ـ أن نصف شعبة وأحمد بن معين ـ وغيرهم من أصحاب الرحلة في طلب الحديث ـ بأنهم جغرافيون؟!. Sometimes its a bit ott, but I guess that's what rabi' does to others.

[Abu Maryam PK]

He is the worst of them. Pure scumbag. Read enough of his "refutations" and ask enough of those who have inside info about him and you will realize, he's deliberately malicious.
that's unbecoming....u could speak the same with more respect for an octogenarian.

And the attacks on him in the link from multaqa were, though i had already read them, really low. Sometimes i feel that the whole world is extremist, and moderation is just a passing phase. All of us hate someone, and though can show some level of fairness to others, or even respect to them,but others for us are kosher.

[Salahadeen]

Sometimes i feel that the whole world is extremist, and moderation is just a passing phase. All of us hate someone, and though can show some level of fairness to others, or even respect to them,but others for us are kosher.

Wise words.

[Abuz Zubair]

that's unbecoming....u could speak the same with more respect for an octogenarian.

And the attacks on him in the link from multaqa were, though i had already read them, really low. Sometimes i feel that the whole world is extremist, and moderation is just a passing phase. All of us hate someone, and though can show some level of fairness to others, or even respect to them,but others for us are kosher.
Have you read some of Rabi's words against others? Do you feel sickened by them at all?

[Salahadeen]

Have you read some of Rabi's words against others? Do you feel sickened by them at all?

Some more wise words. The argument that it's his followers and not his own person,, well that's just wishful thinking. One cannot be so blind that he wouldn't know what his followers are up to, especially when they become so nefarious and well-known.

[Abuz Zubair]

Some more wise words. The argument that it's his followers and not his own person,, well that's just wishful thinking. One cannot be so blind that he wouldn't know what his followers are up to, especially when they become so nefarious and well-known.
Forget his followers, the things he says about people that are outright lies, not even exaggerations, are horrendous and shameful. He is no different to these Bakri's kids here who twist people's words, except that he is a grown up man who is expected to do a lot better!

[Abu Maryam PK]

Have you read some of Rabi's words against others? Do you feel sickened by them at all?
Not at all, except his 'Awasim minalqawasim fi ma fi aqwaali sayyid qutub min al baatil and a short treatise on jama'at tabligh, part of which i found to be ill-researched. Apart from that his radd on abul hasan ma'aribi on khabar wahid, which i discussed in some detail with justabro, and now i think though his attack on him was sincere but abul hasan had brought nothing that had not been said by anyone b4 him, so rabi shud have taken a step farther and attacked ahmad shakir too [as i came across something similar in his tahqqeq on al-muhalla]. Allahu A'lam. And i was in the process of studying his radd on abu ghudda on hasan hadith, which was informative, but i left it for a latter date. If u r talking about his attacks on adnan 'arour et al, then no. i dont even know who adnan is nor do i want to know. As for what has been said about his clout of scholars of medina, like sh muhammad b hadi, then i have nothing but respect for him as i personally benifitted from him and found him a scholar of eminence.

Let's say i feel sickened by all his antics. That his irresponsibility has floundered the da'wa in the west. Still i would have thought twice about calling an octogenarian a pure scum-bag.Clearly i have more and much more against sh taqi uthmani, sh abu ghuddah, sh ashraf ali thanvi, all of whom are shown unflinching respect here, but still i beleive it wud be below the belt to call them 'scum bags'.

[Abuz Zubair]

In that case, read this document and Rabi's words about various ppl...

http://ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=20915&d=1126636162

[Abu Maryam PK]

والذي ترجح لَديّ من خلال قراءتي في كتبه واستماعي لأشرطته، وحضور بعض محاضراته ومجالسه أنه شيخٌ من جملة المشايخ السلفيين، وهو على عقيدة ومنهج أهل السنة والجماعة في الجملة، وعنده غَيْرةٌ شديدةٌ على التوحيد والسنة، وكرهٌ شديد لأهل البدع، وهو طالب علم، ولكنه ليس بعالم في نظري، بل لا يبلغ مد العالم ولا نصيفه، ولكن يستفاد منه في تخصصه، والشيخ ليس بمعصوم ولا هو ممن يدعي العصمة لنفسه، فهو كغيره من طلبة العلم يؤخذ من كلامه ويترك، وقد وجدت عنده اضطرابا كبيرا في عدد من المسائل العلمية في العقيدة والأحكام وغيرهما، وعنده عجلة مذمومة في الفتوى، وخللٌ ظاهرٌ في تنزيلِ الأحكام الشرعية على الوقائع.

that's a far cry from calling him a 'pure scum-bag'. Masha'Allah pure hate can cause a person who was a dean of faculty of hadith in Medina and dean of grad studies , to be labelled 'not half-a-scholar'. Both 'madkhalis' and 'anti-madkhalis' are time wasters who need to think out of the box and kill their desire for cheap thrills.

PS: i now remember i read part of his radd on sh safar, al-hiwar al-hadi ma'a sh safa al-hawali, and remember [though he might have been dishonest in the radd, as i never had a chance nor the wiil to research his accusations, nor are they important to me, as i hate this hate-cycle] that he addressed sh safar respectfully. Never called him a pure scum-bag, as far as i remember, or any arabic aquivalent like Kees al-najasah [smile]

[Abuz Zubair]

that's a far cry from calling him a 'pure scum-bag'. Masha'Allah pure hate can cause a person who was a dean of faculty of hadith in Medina and dean of grad studies , to be labelled 'not half-a-scholar'. Both 'madkhalis' and 'anti-madkhalis' are time wasters who need to think out of the box and kill their desire for cheap thrills.

PS: i now remember i read part of his radd on sh safar, al-hiwar al-hadi ma'a sh safa al-hawali, and remember [though he might have been dishonest in the radd, as i never had a chance nor the wiil to research his accusations, nor are they important to me, as i hate this hate-cycle] that he addressed sh safar respectfully. Never called him a pure scum-bag, as far as i remember, or any arabic aquivalent like Kees al-najasah [smile]
He has called other people najis... just read the document. You cannot have respect for a shameless person like that...

[Abu Maryam PK]

He has called other people najis... just read the document. You cannot have respect for a shameless person like that...
i have not finished the document, let me read on

[Abu Maryam PK]

وتسجيلات سبيل المؤمنين بالدمام
i know these guys
ويتحدث كثيراً بالعامية

then thats a trait with others too, not him alone.

[Abu Maryam PK]

He has called other people najis... just read the document. You cannot have respect for a shameless person like that...
ok i almost finished. He called Mahmoud Al-Haddad najis [if he did that], which is pretty low. And if all the accusations are correct in that book,t then i have to admit he is a hyper person who likes to blow things out of all sensible propotions.
But i guess u dont think he is a revisionist [wink]:

وكفر الروافض عندنا أنجس من كفر اليهود أوسخ

[Abuz Zubair]

You cannot make anything out of him since he himself doesn't know half of the time what's coming out of his mouth.

[Abu Maryam PK]

You cannot make anything out of him since he himself doesn't know half of the time what's coming out of his mouth.
just a useless querry. U may choose to ignore it. Have u listened to his emminence personally?

[Abuz Zubair]

just a useless querry. U may choose to ignore it. Have u listened to his emminence personally?
al-Hamdulillah I still don't know what he looks like.

Here Rabi' cusses Sh Ibn Baz:
http://www.alathary.net/vb2/showthread.php?t=9089

Here Rabi' cusses Ibn Jibrin saying he has lost his deen.
http://www.alathary.net/vb2/showthread.php?t=11033

The man is disgraceful.

[Abu Maryam PK]

al-Hamdulillah I still don't know what he looks like.

و كل يدعى وصلا بليلى

و ليلى لا تقر لهم بذاكا

[sword_of_islam]

Well, dont point fingers while this forum is a cult itself, the Sahawi sect built around the head admin AZ,who lately is calling anyone differing with him for Taghout and Ibn Saloul. The arrogant and lack of humbleness behavior of AZ is not far away from the Madkhalis, not to say its actually even worse , and the cheerleaders of AZ are silent when their leader pour out all bad words he knows, one can only ask; Are these the fruits of learning at the Medina Univ.?
No one can deny the twisted manhaj of madkhalis, but don't throw stones while being surrounded by glass.....

MashAllah well said,

All these saudi salafists are the same its just that abu kabisa and his dogs have shown so much open hatred for the ummah that even saudi ulema have labelled them the dogs of jahanam, which the ulema of ahlus sunna wal jammah already new.

But all saudi salafists are the same be it from green lane or wrong street masala they both blind follow scholars like bin baz, Sh Uthaymeen (ra) the extremist ex shia muqbil whose sharp tongue lead him to wirte a 1000 page book against the imam of the sunnah imam Abu Hanifa (ra) and they also blindly follow the faaaaaawzaaaaaaaaaaaaaan who likes to protect his false god by giving fatawas to encourage the handing over brothers who wish to help the sunnis of iraq.

If it wasnt for the salafi cult people would listen to Sh Faisal and know the reality of the likes of abu kabisa and abu usumah and realise they are 2 sides of the same coin.

Brothers upon the haq like Abu Maysara, Abu Usuma, Abumuwahid, Taweedullah, InshAllahShaeed, brother Yousef,brother mustafa and intheheartofgreen birds and others like them who love the muslims and hate the taghoot can riducled on here by the likes of AZ and get labelled all sorts of bad names but they remain steadfast and dare to speak the truth even though the blind followers turn on them let the dogs bark.

This is not salafi cult, its saudi salafi cultism which is as far away from the Sunnah as extreme sufism is may Allah destroy the saudi salafists and there head the inshallah dog of jahanam rabi.

[kamran]

MashAllah well said,

abu kabisa and his dogs

even saudi ulema have labelled them the dogs of jahanam, which the ulema of ahlus sunna wal jammah already new.

they also blindly follow the faaaaaawzaaaaaaaaaaaaaan who likes to protect his false god by giving fatawas to encourage the handing over brothers who wish to help the sunnis of iraq.

the likes of abu kabisa and abu usumah

may Allah destroy the saudi salafists

there head the inshallah dog of jahanam rabi.


Assalam o alaikum,

What a disgrace! Allah is watching you and everything you do.

After going through your reactions, I somehow cannot be comfortable with what is being attributed to Sheikh Fawzaan especially after a friend told me that Sheikh Fawzaan had written a special note in his own handwriting that what is being attributed to him is a lie.

Shame on you all for believing all this without verification and then blindly defending it (as some of those pro-Saudi fans do) or blindly slandering him. Why can't you all verify it? There are many gurus based in Saudia, many of whom consider King Abdullah to be a 'True Muwahid'.

Kamran

[Anikaa]

I like this part of sister umasiyah's comment:

"The problem is not with the salafiyah or with the scholars but with the people who attributed themselves to salafiyah, in the West particularly..."

[Abdullah Abbas]

MashAllah well said,
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