Shaykh Rabee on iraq

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

Shaykh Rabee’ bin Haadee al-Madkhalee speaks about the Attack on Iraq

From a cassette recording (26/1/1424H) of an answer of the Shaykh to a question concerning the crisis (of the Attack on Iraqi) – transcribed by Khalid adh-Dhafayree.

Question: There has been much questioning of the position of the "adherents to the way of the pious predecessors" towards this crisis, is it permissible to supplicate against the Disbelievers in the likes of these circumstances?

Response: Yes, it is permissible to make supplication against the Disbelievers in these circumstances and others. Supplication is made for their guidance, and supplication is made for their destruction when they do not seek guidance. So we ask Allaah that prevents the harm of the Disbelivers, especially in these circumstances, we see oppression and transgression, which exceeds the lowest limits [of what can be defined as] transgression and wrongdoing. So we ask Allaah that He turns their plot back upon them.

Man, as it is said, is a commodity, it is necessary that he gather something of the news. However, I hold that the youth should not be completely engrossed and waste their time in what does not benefit them, and which does not bring back any benefit to the Ummah. Because all they can do is just listen, then what do they do after that? So they take a part o f this news, and then call upon Allaah, the Blessed and Almighty, that He gives relief to the Muslims, and that He removes this affliction. And my advice in regard to this, to the Muslims in general and to [the people of] `Iraaq specifically, is that they return to the Book of Allaah and to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam), for by Allaah, there is no exit for them from these tribulations, trials, calamities and the transgression of the Disbelievers upon them, and by Allaah nothing will stand in the face of them, except that that they adhere to the Book of Allaah, and the Sunnah of His Messenger (`alayhi as-salaatu was salaam). And there is no exit for the Muslims from the continuous humiliation except when they are truthful in their aqeedah, and in their manners and in all of their actions. They are truthful with Allaah, they are truthful to Allaah, obedient to Him, obedient to His Messengers, respectful to His teachings that are in the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of Allaah’s Messenger. But as for when they turn away, and fall short, and when they have beliefs that clash with the beliefs of the Prophets, [and] Shirk is spread in the lands of the Muslims, and misguidance and deviation in the morals and manners and other such tribulations, all of which obligates the anger of Allaah and obligates the domination of the enemies of Islaam upon those Muslims, those about whom the saying of the Messenger (`alayhi as-salaatu was-salaam) holds true, “The nations are about to call each other and set upon you, just as diners set upon food.” They said: “Will it be because of our small number that day, O Messenger of Allaah?” He said: “Rather, on that day you will be many, but you will Allaamah Rabee’ on Current Events in Iraaq be like ghuthaa (scum, foam), like the ghuthaa on the river”. This is the reality of the Muslims, so are they prepared to leave this ghuthaa’iyyah? For by Allaah, [leaving this ghuthaa’iyyah] is not by battle-cries, nor by demonstrations, and by crying and nor by any of this. Rather, it is (by way of) our being truthful with Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic, and that we acquaint ourselves with all earnest, with the methodology of the Prophets, and with the speech of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (sallallaahu `alayhi wasallam), so we believe what it contains of beliefs upon the way of the Messenger of Allaah and His Noble Companions, not upon the way of the Rawaafid (Shi`ah), and nor upon the way of the Khawaarij, and nor upon the way of the Ba’thees (Socialists) and nor upon the way of the Philosophers, and nor upon the way of any astray sect. But rather upon the way of the Messenger (`alayhi as-salaatu was salaam), the way that is comprised in the texts of the Book and the Sunnah, and [the way that] the Noble Companions guided themselves, by this guidance, and [the way of] whoever followed them until this day of ours.

This is the path to rescue in the world and the hereafter, and this is the path of deliverance, this is the boat of deliverance. And by Allaah, the time has come for the Palestinian society to return to Allaah, and the Iraaqee society, and all of the [Muslim] societies, for them to return to Allaah, with a complete and serious return. And it is of the utmost imperative upon the callers, those who raise the slogans that doe not benefit the Muslims, that they are truthful to Allaah, the Blessed and Exalted and that they give sincerity of purpose to Allaah, and His Book and His Messenger, to the leaders of the Muslims and their general folk, that they give sincerity of purpose to them and call out to them to return to the Book of Allaah and that they satisfy the Muslims with [the fact] that there is not deliverance or rescue from the anger of Allaah, His punishment, and empowerment of their enemies upon them in this life, except by a serious return to the Book of Allaah, and the Sunnah of His Messenger (`alayhi as salaatu was salaam) and to what the Pious Predecessors (may Allaah be peased with them) were upon.

This is the path to deliverance, by Allaah, not by the United Nations, which has been unsuccessful, and nor by the Security Council, and nor by the Union of Arab States, and nor other than it, and nor by mere slogans or ideologies, or calls, or slogans, or the cries of the Soofiyyah, or the Rawaafid nor other than them.

But that which will save them and will remove them from the destructive calamities, is that they return to the Book of Allaah and to the Sunnah of His Messenger, just as he (`alayhi as salaatu was salaam) said, “When you deal in ‘eenah transactions, and are satisfied with cultivation, and hold on to the tails of oxen [and abandon Jihaad] then Allaah will impose a humiliation upon which that He will not remove up until you return to your deen”.

I hope that you understand this Prophetic advice, it is not the advice of Rabee`, this is the advice of the Messenger of Allaah, the Naasih, the Ameen (Sincere Advisor, Trustworthy One), who does not speak with his desire, the one who is Ra’oof and Raheem, as his Lord described him. So if you desire deliverance in this world and the hereafter, and rescue, and (imposing) humiliation upon the Disbelievers, and (acquiring) strength, honour for Islaam and the Muslims, then Allaamah Rabee’ on Current Events in Iraaq by Allaah, the path to strength, deliverance and honour in this world and the hereafter is by returning to Islaam and holding fast to it.

So I ask Allaah that He grants success to the Muslims, those who are guided and those who are astray and deviated amongst them, from amongst the astray sects in whatever land from the various lands, that they show earnest in returning to the Book of Allaah, and taking from this (Prophetic) text and its likes, that direct them to what which will rectify them in their world and their hereafter. I ask Allaah that He grants success to the leaders of the Muslims, their callers, and the students of knowledge in leading these poor societies to the shores of safety, and to the banks of deliverance. And that is in abundance in the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger. I ask Allaah that He actualises this soon rather than later, verily our Lord is the one who hears the supplication, and prayers and salutations upon our Prophet Muhammad, and upon his family and companions.

http://www.fatwa-online.com/news/0030401.htm

[Abdullah Abbas]

Shaykh Rabee’ bin Haadee al-Madkhalee speaks about the Attack on Iraq

From a cassette recording (26/1/1424H) of an answer of the Shaykh to a question concerning the crisis (of the Attack on Iraqi) – transcribed by Khalid adh-Dhafayree.

Question: There has been much questioning of the position of the "adherents to the way of the pious predecessors" towards this crisis, is it permissible to supplicate against the Disbelievers in the likes of these circumstances?

Response: Yes, it is permissible to make supplication against the Disbelievers in these circumstances and others. Supplication is made for their guidance, and supplication is made for their destruction when they do not seek guidance. So we ask Allaah that prevents the harm of the Disbelivers, especially in these circumstances, we see oppression and transgression, which exceeds the lowest limits [of what can be defined as] transgression and wrongdoing. So we ask Allaah that He turns their plot back upon them.

Man, as it is said, is a commodity, it is necessary that he gather something of the news. However, I hold that the youth should not be completely engrossed and waste their time in what does not benefit them, and which does not bring back any benefit to the Ummah. Because all they can do is just listen, then what do they do after that? So they take a part o f this news, and then call upon Allaah, the Blessed and Almighty, that He gives relief to the Muslims, and that He removes this affliction. And my advice in regard to this, to the Muslims in general and to [the people of] `Iraaq specifically, is that they return to the Book of Allaah and to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam), for by Allaah, there is no exit for them from these tribulations, trials, calamities and the transgression of the Disbelievers upon them, and by Allaah nothing will stand in the face of them, except that that they adhere to the Book of Allaah, and the Sunnah of His Messenger (`alayhi as-salaatu was salaam). And there is no exit for the Muslims from the continuous humiliation except when they are truthful in their aqeedah, and in their manners and in all of their actions. They are truthful with Allaah, they are truthful to Allaah, obedient to Him, obedient to His Messengers, respectful to His teachings that are in the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of Allaah’s Messenger. But as for when they turn away, and fall short, and when they have beliefs that clash with the beliefs of the Prophets, [and] Shirk is spread in the lands of the Muslims, and misguidance and deviation in the morals and manners and other such tribulations, all of which obligates the anger of Allaah and obligates the domination of the enemies of Islaam upon those Muslims, those about whom the saying of the Messenger (`alayhi as-salaatu was-salaam) holds true, “The nations are about to call each other and set upon you, just as diners set upon food.” They said: “Will it be because of our small number that day, O Messenger of Allaah?” He said: “Rather, on that day you will be many, but you will Allaamah Rabee’ on Current Events in Iraaq be like ghuthaa (scum, foam), like the ghuthaa on the river”. This is the reality of the Muslims, so are they prepared to leave this ghuthaa’iyyah? For by Allaah, [leaving this ghuthaa’iyyah] is not by battle-cries, nor by demonstrations, and by crying and nor by any of this. Rather, it is (by way of) our being truthful with Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic, and that we acquaint ourselves with all earnest, with the methodology of the Prophets, and with the speech of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (sallallaahu `alayhi wasallam), so we believe what it contains of beliefs upon the way of the Messenger of Allaah and His Noble Companions, not upon the way of the Rawaafid (Shi`ah), and nor upon the way of the Khawaarij, and nor upon the way of the Ba’thees (Socialists) and nor upon the way of the Philosophers, and nor upon the way of any astray sect. But rather upon the way of the Messenger (`alayhi as-salaatu was salaam), the way that is comprised in the texts of the Book and the Sunnah, and [the way that] the Noble Companions guided themselves, by this guidance, and [the way of] whoever followed them until this day of ours.

This is the path to rescue in the world and the hereafter, and this is the path of deliverance, this is the boat of deliverance. And by Allaah, the time has come for the Palestinian society to return to Allaah, and the Iraaqee society, and all of the [Muslim] societies, for them to return to Allaah, with a complete and serious return. And it is of the utmost imperative upon the callers, those who raise the slogans that doe not benefit the Muslims, that they are truthful to Allaah, the Blessed and Exalted and that they give sincerity of purpose to Allaah, and His Book and His Messenger, to the leaders of the Muslims and their general folk, that they give sincerity of purpose to them and call out to them to return to the Book of Allaah and that they satisfy the Muslims with [the fact] that there is not deliverance or rescue from the anger of Allaah, His punishment, and empowerment of their enemies upon them in this life, except by a serious return to the Book of Allaah, and the Sunnah of His Messenger (`alayhi as salaatu was salaam) and to what the Pious Predecessors (may Allaah be peased with them) were upon.

This is the path to deliverance, by Allaah, not by the United Nations, which has been unsuccessful, and nor by the Security Council, and nor by the Union of Arab States, and nor other than it, and nor by mere slogans or ideologies, or calls, or slogans, or the cries of the Soofiyyah, or the Rawaafid nor other than them.

But that which will save them and will remove them from the destructive calamities, is that they return to the Book of Allaah and to the Sunnah of His Messenger, just as he (`alayhi as salaatu was salaam) said, “When you deal in ‘eenah transactions, and are satisfied with cultivation, and hold on to the tails of oxen [and abandon Jihaad] then Allaah will impose a humiliation upon which that He will not remove up until you return to your deen”.

I hope that you understand this Prophetic advice, it is not the advice of Rabee`, this is the advice of the Messenger of Allaah, the Naasih, the Ameen (Sincere Advisor, Trustworthy One), who does not speak with his desire, the one who is Ra’oof and Raheem, as his Lord described him. So if you desire deliverance in this world and the hereafter, and rescue, and (imposing) humiliation upon the Disbelievers, and (acquiring) strength, honour for Islaam and the Muslims, then Allaamah Rabee’ on Current Events in Iraaq by Allaah, the path to strength, deliverance and honour in this world and the hereafter is by returning to Islaam and holding fast to it.

So I ask Allaah that He grants success to the Muslims, those who are guided and those who are astray and deviated amongst them, from amongst the astray sects in whatever land from the various lands, that they show earnest in returning to the Book of Allaah, and taking from this (Prophetic) text and its likes, that direct them to what which will rectify them in their world and their hereafter. I ask Allaah that He grants success to the leaders of the Muslims, their callers, and the students of knowledge in leading these poor societies to the shores of safety, and to the banks of deliverance. And that is in abundance in the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger. I ask Allaah that He actualises this soon rather than later, verily our Lord is the one who hears the supplication, and prayers and salutations upon our Prophet Muhammad, and upon his family and companions.

http://www.fatwa-online.com/news/0030401.htm


i dont see any benefit in publishing statements made by an extremist like the above mentioned ''dr''

[Anikaa]

who's the "extremist" you're reffering to? Shaykh rabee'?

[Um Ismail]

I'm sure had the name been removed no one would even read the thread let alone object. Besides, maybe some of us DO see the benefit.

[Abdullah Abbas]

who's the "extremist" you're reffering to? Shaykh rabee'?

i am referring to ''dr'' rabee yes
there is another thread about his very friendly and warm ''students/''followers''

[Um Ismail]

Akhi, since when do we judge people based on their followers?

[Abdullah Abbas]

Akhi, since when do judge people based on their followers?

unlike you it seems i have actually read his statements and works , and i dont find more adab in rabee then in his students/followers

[Um Ismail]

Alhamdulillah I have read quite a few of his works as well as heard his lectures, although it is nothing to brag about. And alhamdulillah unlike you I don't assume about you what I don't know. So now "adab" determine ones' aqeedah?

[Abdullah Abbas]

Alhamdulillah I have read quite a few of his works as well as heard his lectures, although it is nothing to brag about. And alhamdulillah unlike you I don't assume about you what I don't know. So now "adab" determine ones' aqeedah?

we all know his kufr duna kufr aqeedah and his pro secular government manhaj
so better dont start a topic about his ''aqeedah''

we were talking about the adab of his students but you involved him in it well he isnt 1% better then his students

i dont understand this madkhali hype anyway his students almost claim as it is fard to follow this person. he is quite unknown in the arab world even in saudi arabia ask any person in riyadh about him or outside of jeddah ,

[Um Ismail]

Correction: in this thread no one was talking about his followers save YOU. I did not 'involve' him into anything, rather I defended him against your tongue, which was my soul purpose of saying anything. Well, he sure seems 100% better than you or I. Look, I don't even want to go into a discussion with people like yourself, this fitna has been repeated one too many times.

[Abdullah Abbas]

Correction: in this thread no one was talking about his followers save YOU. I did not 'involve' him into anything, rather I defended him against your tongue, which was my soul purpose of saying anything. Well, he sure seems 100% better than you or I. Look, I don't even want to go into a discussion with people like yourself, this fitna has been repeated one too many times.

Correction: this fitna you mention was started by rabee and his students
you better do some more research before you blindly defend a person you dont even know

[Um Ismail]

You don't seem to have the ability to read words as they are typed.

I said:

"...This fitna has been REPEATED one too many times"!

Where am I talking about how the fitna "started" and who started it???? How are you correcting me on something I never said?!!

As for research, no thanks, I have more important things to do, but blindly defending someone is not one of them for sure. I'm sure you know him so well that it gives you the right to bite his flesh.

[Ibn Jafar]

Question: There has been much questioning of the position of the "adherents to the way of the pious predecessors" towards this crisis, is it permissible to supplicate against the Disbelievers in the likes of these circumstances?



!!! What!? "Is it permissible to supplicate against the Disbelievers in the likes of these circumstances?"!!!

How can you even ask that! Like the person who asked this question thought maybe it wasn't allowed so he asked just to be sure!! If you can't pray against the crusaders who are waging war against Allah and His Messanger and the Muslims who can you pray against! This is crazy! We are in such a sad state we have to ask for a fatwaa on wither we are allowed to pray against the crusaders!

[waziri]

!!! What!? "Is it permissible to supplicate against the Disbelievers in the likes of these circumstances?"!!!

How can you even ask that! Like the person who asked this question thought maybe it wasn't allowed so he asked just to be sure!! If you can't pray against the crusaders who are waging war against Allah and His Messanger and the Muslims who can you pray against! This is crazy! We are in such a sad state we have to ask for a fatwaa on wither we are allowed to pray against the crusaders!

Well akhi the sad state of affairs is such that some need a fatawa to do even this,I guess helping in anyother way is totaly out of the question then

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as-salaamu alaykum,

perhaps the person who asked it didnt have much ilm concerning these issues. Who knows they could live in a small village and rarely hears news of events going on. Perhaps he thinks that iraq only has shia mushrikeen so he is unsure if he can pray. Some people are ignorant like that, because they have no source of information.

[Um Ismail]

It could also be that the questioner himself is aware but deals with ignorant people perhaps even family members who won't accept anything unless it comes from a scholar....we should seek excuses for people.
(Although I don't understand why fatawa about "pokemon" are needed).

[rasheed gonzales]

we all know his kufr duna kufr aqeedah and his pro secular government manhaj
That's amusing.

[asharee_salafi]

Rasheed, is the goverment in Iraq the legitmate authority that mus be obeyed?

[Ahmad ibn Philip]

!!! What!? "Is it permissible to supplicate against the Disbelievers in the likes of these circumstances?"!!!

How can you even ask that! Like the person who asked this question thought maybe it wasn't allowed so he asked just to be sure!! If you can't pray against the crusaders who are waging war against Allah and His Messanger and the Muslims who can you pray against! This is crazy! We are in such a sad state we have to ask for a fatwaa on wither we are allowed to pray against the crusaders!


lol, same thing I was thinking.

[safdl]

Originally Posted by Ibn Jafar
!!! What!? "Is it permissible to supplicate against the Disbelievers in the likes of these circumstances?"!!!


as-salaamu alaykum,

perhaps the person who asked it didnt have much ilm concerning these issues. Who knows they could live in a small village and rarely hears news of events going on. Perhaps he thinks that iraq only has shia mushrikeen so he is unsure if he can pray. Some people are ignorant like that, because they have no source of information.

Lol

unless they edited the language in which the question was posted...the english used doesnt seem like english from a villager. I cannot believe a muslim really asked that question. How do these people differentiate from right and wrong.

[asharee_salafi]

its funny though right? they make du'a aginst the Muslims, asking Allah to break their backs, curse them, and let them die in jahiliyyah...but when it comes to crusdaing armies, they questionw hether its OK to make du'a against them. lol

[Abdullah Abbas]

its funny though right? they make du'a aginst the Muslims, asking Allah to break their backs, curse them, and let them die in jahiliyyah...but when it comes to crusdaing armies, they questionw hether its OK to make du'a against them. lol

yes these people are hillarious
they have the attitude of the ''kawaariji''
its funny how fast they label others kawaariji while they themselves fit the description

[asharee_salafi]

It could also be that the questioner himself is aware but deals with ignorant people perhaps even family members who won't accept anything unless it comes from a scholar....we should seek excuses for people.
(Although I don't understand why fatawa about "pokemon" are needed).

what u gwanin on bout woman! *shocked face* well if we make excuses in such a silly matter, we mightaswell make excuses for anything and everything. excuses are valid if tehir is room for misunderstanding, but with this cult, u know for a fact that they can't even fart without their sheikhs permission.

[Um Ismail]

How do you know the questioner was from that cult akh?

To each his own, I choose to find excuses for fellow Muslims, especially when i don't know nothing about their situation,and the condition is not that we must understand or know their reasons. Anyway it is silly arguing about this.

[Hamza]

Rasheed, is the goverment in Iraq the legitmate authority that mus be obeyed?

Good question. How about the karzai govrnment?

bro rasheed? Yes or no you reckon?

No verilys or maybes :)

[asharee_salafi]

Yes Rasheed..please tell me how they are legitimate according to the shareeah?

[Adem Al-Albani]

Another thread to bash Madhkalees. What is this? like number 345?

[Abdullah Abbas]

Another thread to bash Madhkalees. What is this? like number 345?

you would be surprised how much threads they open on their ''forums''

[justabro]

as-salaamu alaykum,

perhaps the person who asked it didnt have much ilm concerning these issues. Who knows they could live in a small village and rarely hears news of events going on. Perhaps he thinks that iraq only has shia mushrikeen so he is unsure if he can pray. Some people are ignorant like that, because they have no source of information.

however, it is most likely he was just a Madkhali donkey

[Abdullah Abbas]

however, it is most likely he was just a Madkhali donkey

i dont think anyone outside the madkhali group would approach rabee
he isnt that popular and famous , even in most parts of saudi arabia they never heard of him he is more famous in the west because of his students

[asharee_salafi]

Another thread to bash Madhkalees. What is this? like number 345?

nah more like 346..............lol

[Um Ismail]

however, it is most likely he was just a Madkhali donkey

Do you have the knowledge of the Unseen?


i dont think anyone outside the madkhali group would approach rabee
he isnt that popular and famous , even in most parts of saudi arabia they never heard of him he is more famous in the west because of his students


So scholars such as bin baz, al albani, ibn uthaymin may Allah have Mercy on them, and other then them, would be considered madkhalis, according to your line of "thinking"?

[justabro]

Do you have the knowledge of the Unseen?
No, just an educated guess : )


So scholars such as bin baz, al albani, ibn uthaymin may Allah have Mercy on them, and other then them, would be considered madkhalis, according to your line of "thinking"?

Can you imagine Sh Bin Baz asking Rabee who is hizbi and who is not? LOL

[anam]

Well akhi the sad state of affairs is such that some need a fatawa to do even this,I guess helping in anyother way is totaly out of the question then


Just think, the trees and rocks will tell the salafi 'come there is a Jew hiding behind me' the salafi will say 'ok wait, i will get fatwa'

others will say to the trees and rocks
''go away you liar! We have covenant of security'' : D

[Um Ismail]

i don't think anyone outside the madkhali group would approach rabee



Can you imagine Sh Bin Baz asking Rabee who is hizbi and who is not? LOL


Then I suggest firstly you be more specific in things you say as one has nothing to do with the other. But the problem seems to stem from your thinking that all he does is refute people and that he is not knowledgeable i other areas, no?

So scholars such as bin baz, al albani, ibn uthaymin may Allah have Mercy on them, and other then them, would be considered madkhalis, according to your line of "thinking"?

Are you saying they never said anything good about him nor praised his works, knowledge and efforts?

[Um Ismail]

Just think, the trees and rocks will tell the salafi 'come there is a Jew hiding behind me' the salafi will say 'ok wait, i will get fatwa'

others will say to the trees and rocks
''go away you liar! We have covenant of security'' : D

hilarious.

[justabro]

Then I suggest firstly you be more specific in things you say as one has nothing to do with the other. But the problem seems to stem from your thinking that all he does is refute people and that he is not knowledgeable i other areas, no?
Most of his writings are refutations... and a big chunk of those are downright nasty and dishonest ones too



Are you saying they never said anything good about him nor praised his works, knowledge and efforts?
I am certain they never read much, if any, of the nastiness that comes from this man's pen. therefore, we can hope they receive one reward in their ijtihad for having husn al zann for them.

I was a madkhali for a while. Then I started reading more and more of his stuff. I tried to give him all sorts of husn al-zann but the excuses ran out.

[Um Ismail]

I was a madkhali for a while. Then I started reading more and more of his stuff. I tried to give him all sorts of husn al-zann but the excuses ran out.

Maybe that's what happens after one chases after faults of other people.

Most who are on the one end of extreme end up falling into another. Allahu A'lam.

[abumuwahid]

Just think, the trees and rocks will tell the salafi 'come there is a Jew hiding behind me' the salafi will say 'ok wait, i will get fatwa'

others will say to the trees and rocks
''go away you (khariji*) liar! We have covenant of security'' : D

Brother Anam is on form as usual.

Sad but hilarious.

May Allah guide them.

*my edit

[rasheed gonzales]

Rasheed, is the goverment in Iraq the legitmate authority that mus be obeyed?

Yes Rasheed..please tell me how they are legitimate according to the shareeah?
Sorry, bud. I don't really keep up-to-date with local politics, let alone global politics, so I couldn't really tell you even if I wanted. Add to that the fact that I don't really have much care for things like whether government x of country z (which I don't even live in) is legitimate or not, as they don't really concern me.

[Abdullah Abbas]

Sorry, bud. I don't really keep up-to-date with local politics, let alone global politics, so I couldn't really tell you even if I wanted. Add to that the fact that I don't really have much care for things like whether government x of country z (which I don't even live in) is legitimate or not, as they don't really concern me.

you should be concerned about the events in the world as you know we muslims are one body and we must care for eachother especially those that are being oppressed.

a single search on even google would show you an alliance between abdullah saud hamid karzai husni mubarak etc and bush.

a single search would also provide you official and non official websites about the Kufr ''constitution'' of those countries

[rasheed gonzales]

you should be concerned about the events in the world as you know we muslims are one body and we must care for eachother especially those that are being oppressed.

a single search on even google would show you an alliance between abdullah saud hamid karzai husni mubarak etc and bush.

a single search would also provide you official and non official websites about the Kufr ''constitution'' of those countries
Being concerned about my brothers and sisters around the world is one thing. Being concerned about current worldly events (in this case, politics) is another.

As for my brothers and sisters being oppressed, wherever they may be, then I ask that Allah guides them and us to purification of our beliefs and practices and that He guides us to performing and implementing our religion as we should, as this will lead the way to the oppression and humiliation being lifted off our nation; «Surely, Allah does not change what is with a people until they change with is with themselves» (13:11).

[Abuz Zubair]

Being concerned about my brothers and sisters around the world is one thing. Being concerned about current worldly events (in this case, politics) is another.

As for my brothers and sisters being oppressed, wherever they may be, then I ask that Allah guides them and us to purification of our beliefs and practices and that He guides us to performing and implementing our religion as we should, as this will lead the way to the oppression and humiliation being lifted off our nation; «Surely, Allah does not change what is with a people until they change with is with themselves» (13:11).
Gateway to secularism...

If it wasn't for the Salafis in the West becoming modernists and one even become fully grown secularist, I wouldn't have said that.

[AbuBakr Jazairi]

I hate putting my nose is such threads, but did anybody see one of the MADAKHILA in any jihad place , either in IRAQ , PALESTINE , KESHMIRE , AFGHANISTAN , BOSNIA , SOMALIA , ERITERIA , CHECHENYA , DAGISTAN , INGUSHTIA , INDONESIA...etc

Did any body hear a lecture of Rabee about Mujahideen in any place and asking ALLAH to sustain them with the glory and triumph , muslims are dying every where on this earth with thousands and this madakhila (Jamia) keep saying we have to obey the rulers (as they are true muslim rulers who applicate the HAKIMIYA) , they write about that more than writing about obeying ALLAH SWT

All what we see since this group appears , is the more and more corruption of the rulers and the fellows of this manhaj till they started to do HAJR for all who disagree with them and they end in doing HAJR against them selves...

I was wondering what would they say if a KAFIR (Christian or Jew) ruler take over a Muslim territory ,would they say , he's a legitimate WALIY (Shar3iy) and in fact they say so when PAUL BREMER ruled IRAQ and they brought them (so called scholars) on TV to say that!? subhana ALLAH

They and Rabee of course are saying there is no Jihad in our time and they neglect the Prophets PBUH hadeeth 'Jihad is continuing till the day of judgment' ...

Muslims waited for centuries to not defend them selves just because the rulers asked them too and they believe that was the only solution and what they did? nothing and we're still waiting and all what we gain is more and more KAMAL ATATURKS on our lands to remove ISLAM and MUSLIMS from this planet like in TUNIS and the list so long!

What a crazy thing we still speak about , we all know about the hadiths of the final battle (Al Ma3raka Al Fassila) and it's stated in details in (Al Bidaya wa Al nihaya) of Ibn Katheer and how a part of muslims (Hypocrites and Murtads) would support the Kaffirs against the Muslims and we're still hiding from the truth...

I find it very difficult to admit the virtual borders around Muslim lands , and find it impossible to admit what Sykes&Picot decided while it's a MOSSALAMAT in the Madak... education

Just look about what happened between al madkhalee and al harbi , nas2alo ALLAH al3afiya , and read what Faleh wrote (the book of: Al Kashf Al Jaliye Li2irja2 al madkhaliye)

Listen to this by the voice of Madkhali when he was asked why did he said that sheikh Ibn Baz RAHIMAHU ALLAH (Ta3ana AL-Salafiyah Ta3nat Khabitha)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqnUPoyM4fw

And here is what Sheikh Ibn Baz Rahimahu ALLAH said about stabbing the 3olama and mashayikh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg-PU8SMjf4

And here is what Sheikh Ibn Jibreen Hafithaho ALLAH said about the Jamis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sHpUWZRGOA

Sheikh Al Fawzan replying about what the madkhalis are doing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLTQiNViVYE

A tough reply of Sheikh Al-Sheikh about refuting 3olama as the mmmm are doing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFYPb-QYYM4

Sheikh Al Fawzan saying:"there is no Jarh Wa Ta3deel in these days , there is Namima wa gheeba"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr8BsHfpkQg

Reply Of shiekh Ibn Othaymeen about those declaring they're the masters of Jarh wa Ta3deel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWS-uykvkS0

Very important , look about Sheikh Ibn Othaymeen (video) answering Sheikh Al-Hawali is a Khariji
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y6htqLElNw

Al-Sheikh speaks about Madakhila behaviour responding to a question
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iTViQJsN5A

And there are a lot and a lot of points to speak about but what we have to say is just : Hasbona ALLAH wa ni3ma Alwakeel

[Hamza]

As for my brothers and sisters being oppressed, wherever they may be, then I ask that Allah guides them and us to purification of our beliefs and practices and that He guides us to performing and implementing our religion as we should, as this will lead the way to the oppression and humiliation being lifted off our nation; «Surely, Allah does not change what is with a people until they change with is with themselves» (13:11). Maasha'Allah... This is why people like Qutb, Azzam are so respected yet the modern day madhkali only inspire hatred.

[rasheed gonzales]

Maasha'Allah... This is why people like Qutb, Azzam are so respected yet the modern day madhkali only inspire hatred.
Really? That's interesting. According to brother Jalal Abualrub, who says he knew Shaikh 'Abdullah 'Azzam personally, the shaikh was nothing like Qutb or any of the people today who claim him to be their inspiration. He gives his account of his experience with the shaikh here (http://www.islamlife.com/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=6&thread_id=234&pid=808#post_808) and in some of the posts that follow.

As for what I stated in my post, then consider this:

Allah says, «Or when a calamaty strikes you, half the likes of which you have caused, you say, "Where is this from?" Say: It is from yourselves. Surely, Allah is capable of everything» (3:165).

In Miftah Dar as-Sa'adah, Ibn al-Qayyim said,
Consider His wisdom, exalted is He, in that He made the servant's kings, emirs and rulers of the genus of their deeds. Rather, it is as if their deeds appeared in the images of their rulers and kings. So if they were upright, their kings were upright, If they were just, they were just to them, and if they strayed, their kings and rulers would stray. If slyness and deceit appeared among them, their rulers would be like that. If they hindered Allah's rights before them and were stingy with them, their kings and rulers would hinder what they had with them of the right and be stingy with them with regards to them. And in their business, if they took what they did not deserve from those they deemed weak, the kings would take what they did not deserve from them and taxes and duties would be imposed on them; whatever they extracted from the weak, the kings would extract it from them by force. Thus, their deeds appeared in the images if their deeds. And it is not from the divine wisdom that He entrusts the immoral evil [people] except to whoever is of their genus. So when the forefront was the best and most reverent of the generations, their rulers were like that. Then when they became white-haired, the rulers became white-haired for them. Thus, Allah's wisdom refuses to entrust us, in the likes of these times, to the likes of Mu'awiyah and 'Umar bin 'Abdil-'Aziz, let alone the likes of Abi Bakr and Umar. Rather, our rulers are according to our worth, the rulers of those before us are according to their worth. Each of the two matters is wisdom's reason and requisite.

So you can blame others all you want. According to Allah, in the end, our disobedience and sins are the cause of our humiliation and oppression. Thus, we're the only ones to blame for our own misfortunes.

Gateway to secularism...
I'm not surprising you'd think that, at all.

But if you think that asking Allah to guide the people and to grant them succcess in performing and implementing their religion as a means and a precuror for establishing Islamic rule over the Muslims is a gateway to secularism, than that's your problem.

[Abuz Zubair]

I'm not surprising you'd think that, at all.

But if you think that asking Allah to guide the people and to grant them succcess in performing and implementing their religion as a means and a precuror for establishing Islamic rule over the Muslims is a gateway to secularism, than that's your problem.

You know very well no one disputes tasfiya and tarbiya. What we have noticed from you, however, is that these two words are used as a smokescreen to promote secular mentality. 'Don't worry about the rulers, concentrate on your prayers and fasts and everything will be ok...'

Lo and behold, we have openly secularist anti-Islamist Salafis today.

[Abu Maryam PK]

You know very well no one disputes tasfiya and tarbiya. What we have noticed from you, however, is that these two words are used as a smokescreen to promote secular mentality. 'Don't worry about the rulers, concentrate on your prayers and fasts and everything will be ok...'

Lo and behold, we have openly secularist anti-Islamist Salafis today.
true words...

[rasheed gonzales]

You know very well no one disputes tasfiya and tarbiya. What we have noticed from you, however, is that these two words are used as a smokescreen to promote secular mentality. 'Don't worry about the rulers, concentrate on your prayers and fasts and everything will be ok...'
May Allah forgive you, Abuz Zubair. That's a blatant lie and slander against me and you know it.

Provide even one statement I've made on this forum or any other (including my blog) where I've promoted secularism, whether explicitly or implicitly.

Btw, advising others to worry about their own situations over the situations of rulers who aren't even theirs in no way suggests that the advisor believes, or even advocates, that religion and state should be separated.

[Abu Ma'mar]

Really? That's interesting. According to brother Jalal Abualrub, who says he knew Shaikh 'Abdullah 'Azzam personally, the shaikh was nothing like Qutb or any of the people today who claim him to be their inspiration. He gives his account of his experience with the shaikh here (http://www.islamlife.com/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=6&thread_id=234&pid=808#post_808) and in some of the posts that follow.



Thanks for that. I disagree with Jalal Abualrub on some things he says, but from the stuff ive heard of him and read he seems like is a sincere brother in shaa' Allah.

Has his book 'prophet of mercy' come out yet? I remember him mentioning it in a debate he had with an anti-islamic writer.

[rasheed gonzales]

Has his book 'prophet of mercy' come out yet? I remember him mentioning it in a debate he had with an anti-islamic writer.
You can try contacting him to confirm, but I think the book is supposed to be a series of books, rather than a single one. If I'm correct in thinking this, two parts have already been printed and are being sold on his website. They're titled, 50 Concepts Brought by Muhammad and Muhammad's Role in Islam. You can contact him either through his website, or his email address, which should be posted somewhere on the site as well.

[Abuz Zubair]

May Allah forgive you, Abuz Zubair. That's a blatant lie and slander against me and you know it.

Provide even one statement I've made on this forum or any other (including my blog) where I've promoted secularism, whether explicitly or implicitly.

Btw, advising others to worry about their own situations over the situations of rulers who aren't even theirs in no way suggests that the advisor believes, or even advocates, that religion and state should be separated.
What do you understand from 'gateway', dear brother? If I thought you were secularists I would have said so. You should know I don't mince my words. I said you are the gateway to secularism since your entire manhaj revolves around defending the status-quo of rulers that are worst than the batiniya. To this end you adopt Irja. To this end you belittle fiqh al-waqi. To this end you belittled Jihad. To this end you excluded politics from Tasfiya and Tarbiya. Wasn't it Abu Shaqra - when he was still with you - who explicitly defined his Salafiyya as, 'render unto Caesar what is his and unto God what is His?' Thank God Allah saved him from you and he changed.

Where do you think Usama Hasan comes from? Did he drop from the skies?

[rasheed gonzales]

What do you understand from 'gateway', dear brother? If I thought you were secularists I would have said so. You should know I don't mince my words.
I understand the concept of being a gateway to something just fine, brother.

You accused me of having some sort of hidden agenda to promote secularist mentality due to "[w]hat [you claim to] have noticed from [me]." My challenge still stands. Provide even one statement from me from this forum or any other to back your slander.

I said you are the gateway to secularism since your entire manhaj revolves around defending the status-quo of rulers that are worst than the batiniya. To this end you adopt Irja. To this end you belittle fiqh al-waqi. To this end you belittled Jihad. To this end you excluded politics from Tasfiya and Tarbiya.
That's hilarious considering the fact that you have no clue what irja' is, no clue what my thoughts and beliefs on jihad are such that you can accuse me of belittling it, or any clue what my "entire manhaj revolves around".

Btw, how is it defending the status quo of the rulers, if one prays to Allah to guide the people to proper implementation of the religion's laws, which will lead to Allah entrusting us to the care of righteous and pious rulers???

Wasn't it Abu Shaqra - when he was still with you - who explicitly defined his Salafiyya as, 'render unto Caesar what is his and unto God what is His?' Thank God Allah saved him from you and he changed.
Who's Abu Shaqra? Perhaps you mean Abu Malik (Muhammad Ibrahim Shaqrah).

Where do you think Usama Hasan comes from?
The UK, just like you.

[abu_ibrahim]

My challenge still stands. Provide even one statement from me from this forum or any other to back your slander.

Did you not translate Ali Hasan al-Halabi's answer to the Lajnah and to refute Shaykh Muhammad Bin Salim ad-Dawsari's book?

http://www.rasheedgonzales.com/rgp/at-tanbihat%20al-mutawa'imah%2001%20-%20rule%20and%20deed-related%20disbelief.pdf

[rasheed gonzales]

Did you not translate Ali Hasan al-Halabi's answer to the Lajnah and to refute Shaykh Muhammad Bin Salim ad-Dawsari's book?

http://www.rasheedgonzales.com/rgp/at-tanbihat%20al-mutawa'imah%2001%20-%20rule%20and%20deed-related%20disbelief.pdf
Yes, a very small portion of it. And that's somehow construed as promoting secularist mentality?!

[Abuz Zubair]

I understand the concept of being a gateway to something just fine, brother.

You accused me of having some sort of hidden agenda to promote secularist mentality due to "[w]hat [you claim to] have noticed from [me]." My challenge still stands. Provide even one statement from me from this forum or any other to back your slander.

When I say that your words about tasfiya and tarbiya are a smokescreen for promoting secularism, I don't mean that you do so intentionally. But your words do serve as a smokescreen.

Also, 'you' here doesn't refer to you in particular but the neo-Murji group you belong to.

That's hilarious considering the fact that you have no clue what irja' is, no clue what my thoughts and beliefs on jihad are such that you can accuse me of belittling it, or any clue what my "entire manhaj revolves around".

Btw, how is it defending the status quo of the rulers, if one prays to Allah to guide the people to proper implementation of the religion's laws, which will lead to Allah entrusting us to the care of righteous and pious rulers???

I don't have a clue what Irja is, says the man who explicitly restricts salvation to belief in the heart. Perhaps, you have forgotten that you considered belief in the heart to be an action itself not very long ago. And you say all of this years after you are officially branded as neo-Murjia masquerading as Salafis. I may be able to say with some level of surety that I have dealt with your cult longer than you've been a Muslim, let alone a member of al-Halabi's cult. You all tend to have the same views on Jihad, and pretty much everything else.. In fact, you dare step out of line and you are boycotted by your own people.

No one has issues with 'praying that Allah guides the Muslims to implementation of Sharia'. The issue we have is that you bring this up each time the rulers are blamed. This is the very central aspect of your da'wah around which all your absurd views revolve.

Who's Abu Shaqra? Perhaps you mean Abu Malik (Muhammad Ibrahim Shaqrah).

Sorry, M I Shaqra. Have you read, Hiya al-Salafiyya which he wrote when he was with you? How could you have missed 'render unto Caesar...'?

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Abuz Zubair http://forums.islamicawakening.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?p=116115#post116115)
Where do you think Usama Hasan comes from?
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
The UK, just like you.

He's the very man who translated the book you go around slapping in people's faces, and the book that was slapped on yours when you became a Muslim, Sifat Salat al-Nabi. He is your product.

[Ibn Jafar]

He's the very man who translated the book you go around slapping in people's faces, and the book that was slapped on yours when you became a Muslim, Sifat Salat al-Nabi. He is your product.

How ironic that he was the one to translate that book. And when you say the book is slapped in peoples faces, you are not exaggerating.

[rasheed gonzales]

Perhaps, you have forgotten that you considered belief in the heart to be an action itself not very long ago. And you say all of this years after you are officially branded as neo-Murjia masquerading as Salafis. I may be able to say with some level of surety that I have dealt with your cult longer than you've been a Muslim, let alone a member of al-Halabi's cult. You all tend to have the same views on Jihad, and pretty much everything else.. In fact, you dare step out of line and you are boycotted by your own people.
I haven't forgotten anything I've said regarding iman/kufr/irja' on this forum or any other. My words are all backed by statements from the salaf and I still stand by my claim that you don't have a clue what irja' is.

Sorry, M I Shaqra. Have you read, Hiya al-Salafiyya which he wrote when he was with you? How could you have missed 'render unto Caesar...'?
No, I haven't read that book, or any other he's written.

He's the very man who translated the book you go around slapping in people's faces, and the book that was slapped on yours when you became a Muslim, Sifat Salat al-Nabi.
And?

Btw, the book "that was slapped on [mine] when I became Muslim" was Shaikh Ibn Uthaimin's explanation of The Three Principles, by Ibn 'Abdil-Wahhab.

[Abuz Zubair]

I haven't forgotten anything I've said regarding iman/kufr/irja' on this forum or any other. My words are all backed by statements from the salaf and I still stand by my claim that you don't have a clue what irja' is.

Every heretic claims that his words are backed up by statements from the Salaf. Ash'aris do the same, so in that regard you are no different. Everyone claims that his opponent doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Again, nothing new.

What's important here is for you to acknowledge your Jahmi belief that Iman is belief only, as this is what suffice for salvation. Thank you very much.

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Abuz Zubair http://forums.islamicawakening.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?p=116147#post116147)
Sorry, M I Shaqra. Have you read, Hiya al-Salafiyya which he wrote when he was with you? How could you have missed 'render unto Caesar...'?
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
No, I haven't read that book, or any other he's written.

Well, may be you should since it outlines very explicitly what you're supposed to be about.

And?

Btw, the book "that was slapped on [mine] when I became Muslim" was Shaikh Ibn Uthaimin's explanation of The Three Principles, by Ibn 'Abdil-Wahhab

... followed by Sifat Salat al-Nabi?

[Abu Shu'aib]

... followed by Sifat Salat al-Nabi?
:D

[asharee_salafi]

Being concerned about my brothers and sisters around the world is one thing. Being concerned about current worldly events (in this case, politics) is another.

As for my brothers and sisters being oppressed, wherever they may be, then I ask that Allah guides them and us to purification of our beliefs and practices and that He guides us to performing and implementing our religion as we should, as this will lead the way to the oppression and humiliation being lifted off our nation; «Surely, Allah does not change what is with a people until they change with is with themselves» (13:11).

Rasheed, Assalaama laykum, hope you and family are well.

One thing in your post reminded me of the phrase:
Render unto ceaser what is his and render what is God's to God

You quote this ayat but do you understand what it means? this ayat does not mean that we sit and do extra nawafil, this ayat does NOT mean that, it means that you must work for Khilafah, it means you must enjoin the good and forbid the munkar whether or not you are a good Muslim or a bad one.

Example: If your wife is being attacked in the street, would you say that 'I am a bad Muslim and so I won't protect her until I do more nawafil'? in fact, you'd be making the situation worse and not fulfilling that ayat.

Now at this point you will say: yes but the Ummah are committing shirk, they dont even pray.

We say: this problem is well known, the solution cannot lay in door to door jehova missionairy style work. Yes sure we must implement tawheed upon ourselves but this will not bring about the implementation of tawheed .

Rasool Allah SalAllahu Alahi wasallam gave dawah in Mecca but the mushriks did not comply and there was only a hand full of Muslims, so when he SAW established a state in madinah and Islaam was forced via authority and Muslims were allowed to give dawah without obstacles, the Muslims numbers and teh people of tawheed went into thousands OVERNIGHT.

How else will you stop shirk and bidah if your soceity is a secular one? We see in the west, regardless of peoples Islamic upbringings, people always turn or have a period of jahiliyyah, how many sons of Imaams go night clubs, how many niqaabi women ( esp from the salafis) commit indecent acts and some even becoming murtaad. (see the salafiburnout blog as an example).

Please give me some more thoughts akhi on this from your side.

[asharee_salafi]

Sorry, bud. I don't really keep up-to-date with local politics, let alone global politics, so I couldn't really tell you even if I wanted. Add to that the fact that I don't really have much care for things like whether government x of country z (which I don't even live in) is legitimate or not, as they don't really concern me.

I think it should concern you akhi...one may question why did Sheikh bin baz call Sadam a kafir then if goverment x of country z was not important.

Furthermore, how then is refuting Sheikh Salman al Awdah, some man called abul hassan maaribee ( no one knows who he is!) or any other prominent scholar, studentt of knowledge etc relevant? Why then do the tongues of your sector scorn people who live overseas on country X of country Z matter.

I was not asking you for a fatwa, I was asking if you deem it legtimate. ( I am not talking of revolts).

Let me tell you the situation, a shia goverment have took authority with colonial help, are they legitmate waliul amr?

Furthermore, I saw teh quote from ibn qayyim, a fine twist...tell me, was Hussain or any other emember of teh ahl bayt khawarij because they rebelled? What about Ibn Taymiyyah against the tartars? What about Muhammad ibn Abdul wahab against the Ottomans?

Thanks.

[Hamza]

Really? That's interesting. According to brother Jalal Abualrub, who says he knew Shaikh 'Abdullah 'Azzam personally, the shaikh was nothing like Qutb or any of the people today who claim him to be their inspiration. He gives his account of his experience with the shaikh here (http://www.islamlife.com/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=6&thread_id=234&pid=808#post_808) and in some of the posts that follow.

Il read it and let you know what i think, thanks. But maybe you might try to read the man's words himself ? Have you read anything from him? You think it works with what you promote?

So Jalal thinks Usama is from the Khawarij?

My objection to Bin Laden, his group and their ideas is based on principal and because of their wicked ideology, not because the West likes or dislikes him, I do't care. He is a Khawarij and those who dispute this fact are either ignorant in Khawarij, or ignorant in Bin Laden. I ask Allah to save Islam and Muslim from their evil.
As-salamu alaikum warahmatullah
Jalal Abualrub

and...

abdullah azzam, sadly, had a hand in the opposition against jameel ar-rahman, which culminated in the war that almost all mujahideen groups led against jameel ar-rahman and his salafi group and ended by jameel's assasination by the hand of one extra khariji khawarij who spent the preceeding night reciting quran (sounds familiar? what did the killer of ali do, he was a khawarij too?) and in the morning went to jameel, concealing a weapon, and when jameel opened his arms to hug the stinking khariji, as was his habit and he trusted arabs, the arab khariji killed him....this also needs to be explained because, even though i believe that abdullah azzam was a salafi in the creed, he still did things that were negative to the dawah, may allah forgive him, but we say the truth regardless of who he was.....
as-salamu alaikum warahmatullah
jalal

Thanks for that. I disagree with Jalal Abualrub on some things he says, but from the stuff ive heard of him and read he seems like is a sincere brother in shaa' Allah.


I disagree akhi. But its all good, your so harsh with others for some strange opinions.

[Hamza]

do not waste your life in this mahyem, study islam, there is qitak today but no real jihad, practice your religion, do not waste your life reading newspapers, and never think that allah gave victory to muhammad because muhammad killed women and children, or destroyed churches, or did suicide, no, he gained victory because of his obedience to allah, plain and simple, and if we do the same, we will have no trouble.....Another defeatist. Next...

as-salamu alaikum warahmatullah
i need to add this: our objection to al-qa`idah of ibn laden, whether it exists in iraq, algeria, palestine, lebanon or afghanistan, and the other similar groups like taliban and hamas, is not merely because of their methods, which indeed have corrupted the proper meaning of jihad and its goals and methods, but also because of their methodology and the way they understand iman and kufr, tauheed and shirk, and the fact that they resurrected the methodology of the khawarij and, in the case of taliban, sufism and, in the case of hamas, preferring political reform to reforming the creed and practices of muslims by claiming that there is no time to waste.....in the end, they did not establish the khilafah, or reform politics, or free muslim lands, or reform the creed and practices of muslims, but instead wasted tens of years trying to earn victory from allah without establishing the true islam in their hearts and life as the prophet of allah and his companions did......as a consequence, muslims now live in a far worse situation than they were even ten years ago: civil wars, backward economies, division, bidah, lack of safety, sects, nationalistic ideas, etc., which really brings grief to muslims and trouble to their lands.....in comparison, the prophet's blessed jihad and his companions' continuation of it led to the conquering of many lands, including palestine, iraq and afghanisatn: kabul was conqeured by an army that included some of the sahaba, and do not forget who conquered india and who delivered al-quds from the hands of the european christians, it is the same salaf that people today ridicule: i just received an email from a moron who takes osama abdallah as his teacher, attacking the salaf by calling them a sect, so i responded by saying that my sect is the sahab, what is your sect?.....
the salaf: they open and we close, they conquer and we surrender and lose, they succeed and we fail, they establish the religion and we divide in it, they earn allah's forgivness and we do not know how and where we will end if we continue defying them and contradicting the sunnah, we do not practice islam or its faith as they did but we wish to receive glory and might even more than that they received.....al-albani's advice is a golden advice, if muslims but listen and obey, that the young men and women of today should shun all these sects and concentrate on building their islamic faith and practicing it the way the salaf did that one day soon they may see al-quds the same way salah ad-deen saw it after around 200 years of bloody crusader presence......
as-salamu alaikum warahmatullah
jalal abualrub

[Abu Ma'mar]

I disagree akhi. But its all good, your so harsh with others for some strange opinions.

He's not like most madkhali's, If he thinks someone is a good person he will say so not caring if he's kicked of some silly manhaj. He also does alot of da'wa to the kuffar and you can tell his is sincere in that he thinks al-qa'ida did alot of bad things for islam and the image of islam.

Plus, Jalal Abualrub fought in Afghanistan, it takes a lot of guts to do something like that.

[rasheed gonzales]

What's important here is for you to acknowledge your Jahmi belief that Iman is belief only
No where have I ever said "iman is belief only," let alone believed that. That's just another lie you've drummed up against me, may Allah forgive you. Anyone who wants to see what I believe with respect to iman can read the several articles I've translated on it posted on my blog.

... followed by Sifat Salat al-Nabi?
Actually, no. More books by Ibn 'Abdil-Wahhab (Kitab at-Tawhid, The Four Principles, The Six Principles) and other books on creed were "slapped on [my face]" before I even got around to reading The Prophet's Prayer when I first became Muslim.

Rasheed, Assalaama laykum, hope you and family are well.
Wa 'alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah. I hope the same with respect to you.

You quote this ayat but do you understand what it means? this ayat does not mean that we sit and do extra nawafil, this ayat does NOT mean that, it means that you must work for Khilafah, it means you must enjoin the good and forbid the munkar whether or not you are a good Muslim or a bad one.
Ibn Kathir doesn't mention anything about the caliphate in his exegesis of this verse:
Ibn Abi Hatim said: Abu Sa'id al-Ashajj narrated to us: Hafs bin Ghiyath narrated to us from As'ath, from Jahm, from Ibrahim who said, "Allah revealed to a one of the Prophets from the Children of Israel to say to his people: There are not from the people of a town, nor the people of a house who are upon the obedience of Allah and change from it to the disobedience of Allah except Allah diverts them from what they love to what they dislike." Then he said, "The attestation of that is in Allah's book, «Surely, Allah does not change what is with a people until they change with is with themselves» (13:11).

This has been mentioned in a marfu' hadith: In his book Sifah al-'Arsh, Hafidh Muhammad bin 'Uthman bin Abi Shaibah said, "al-Hasan bin 'Ali narrated to us: al-Haitham bin al-Ash'ath al-Sulami narrated to us: Abu Hanifah al-Yamani al-Ansari narrated to us from 'Umair bin 'Abdil-Malik who said, "'Ali bin Abi Talib addressed us upon the minbar of Kufah and said, 'When I used to hold back from Allah's messenger, may Allah send salutations and peace upon him, he would initiate with me, and when I asked him about news, he would inform me. Surely, he narrated to me from his Lord, mighty and majestic is He, "The Lord said, 'By My might, by My sublimity, and by My elevating over My throne, There is no town and no people of a house who were upon what I dislike of disobedience of Me, then they divert from it to what I love of obedience of Me except I will divert them from what they dislike of My punishment to what they love of My mercy." This is rare and in its chain is one I do not know of.

Neither does Imam at-Tabari:
His statement, «Surely, Allah does not change what is with a people,» He says, exalted is His mention, "surely Allah does not change what is with a people" of well-being and blessing. So that ceases from them and destroys them «until they change with is with themselves» of them oppressing each other and assaulting each other. So at that time, His punishment and His changing befall them.

Neither does Shaikh 'Abdur-Rahman as-Sa'di:
«Surely, Allah does not change what is with a people» of the blessing, the excellence, and the comfort of life «until they change with is with themselves» by them departing from faith to disbelief and from obedience to disobedience or from thanking Allah's blessing to disregarding them, so with that itself, Allah deprives them.

Likewise, if the servants change with is with themselves of disobedience and turn to Allah's obedience, Allah will change for them what they are in of hardship to good, happiness, bliss, and mercy.

Instead, they all say the verse is speaking of the general condition of a people. If it is good and turns to bad, then Allah will change what is with them of good to bad. Likewise, the opposite: if the general condition of a people is bad and turns to good, Allah will change what is with them of bad to good.

As for:

I think it should concern you akhi...one may question why did Sheikh bin baz call Sadam a kafir then if goverment x of country z was not important.
I haven't read Shaikh Ibn Baz's statement myself regarding Saddam, but I would guess he made such a statement because someone whose concern it was to know asked him.

Furthermore, how then is refuting Sheikh Salman al Awdah, some man called abul hassan maaribee ( no one knows who he is!) or any other prominent scholar, studentt of knowledge etc relevant? Why then do the tongues of your sector scorn people who live overseas on country X of country Z matter.
Who are those from "[my] sector"? None of my friends went around warning anyone from Shaikh Abul-Hasan al-Ma'ribi.

I was not asking you for a fatwa, I was asking if you deem it legtimate. ( I am not talking of revolts).
I understood your question and what you wanted from me. I answered accordingly.

[Abuz Zubair]

No where have I ever said "iman is belief only," let alone believed that. That's just another lie you've drummed up against me, may Allah forgive you. Anyone who wants to see what I believe with respect to iman can read the several articles I've translated on it posted on my blog.

None of you Murjia say, 'Iman is belief only'. That would be suicide on your part. But you do say, quietly explicitly, that one only needs belief in the heart for salvation in the hereafter. This is Irja left, right and centre. This is another way of saying Iman is belief only.

Actually, no. More books by Ibn 'Abdil-Wahhab (Kitab at-Tawhid, The Four Principles, The Six Principles) and other books on creed were "slapped on [my face]" before I even got around to reading The Prophet's Prayer when I first became Muslim.

So all the while your read these books, no one taught you how to pray according to the mu'tamad in your madhab? How strange.

[rasheed gonzales]

This is Irja left, right and centre. This is another way of saying Iman is belief only.
More proof you have no clue what irja' is.

So all the while your read these books, no one taught you how to pray according to the mu'tamad in your madhab?
What's strange is your logic. I learned how to pray well before I actually read Shaikh al-Albani's book.

You know, people can be taught how to pray without the aid of The Prophet's Prayer Described.

[Um Abdullah M.]

Brother Rasheed Gonzales

Is it true that this is your belief

But you do say, quietly explicitly, that one only needs belief in the heart for salvation in the hereafter.

[Abu Ma'mar]

Rasheed, have you read The transcribed Q&A on iman and kufr by Salih al-Fawzan?

I say this as you say that abuz-zubayr doesn't know what irjaa' is but what he is saying is exactly what other scholars have been saying.

You say that Someone can just have belief in their heart but the scholars say that you cant have iman with out the 3 parts( belief in the heart, words on the tounge, and actions on the limbs) if you remove one part you dont have iman and you are not a muslim.

You cant have tasdeeq in the heart and words on the tounge with the exclusion of actions on the limb, you cant have actions on the limbs and words on the tounge with the exclusion of tasdeeq in the heart and so on. All of them must be together to have iman.

You say that you only need belief in the heart to have iman with exclusion of words on the tounge and actions on the limbs.

This is irjaa' is it not?

[suhail]

I dont agree with many things that Jalal Abulrab says or talks about but i was on the show when he defended Prophet(SAW) against that dog who wrote Prophet of Doom. He did silenced that dog. For that one alone he deserves respect.

[rasheed gonzales]

Brother Rasheed Gonzales

Is it true that this is your belief

Dear sister, as I mentioned earlier,
[a]nyone who wants to see what I believe with respect to iman can read the several articles I've translated on it posted on my blog.

If you wish, you can read those. Otherwise, I will not be engaging in anymore discussions on this particular forum regarding this topic, insha'allah. If you wish to engage in discussion elsewhere, whether through email, on my blog, or other than those, I don't have any problem with that.

This is irjaa' is it not?
No, it's not. Irja' is to say that actions and deeds are not part of faith and that faith does not increase or diminish.

As Imams Ahmad, al-Barbahari and others have said, whoever says (i.e., believes) that faith increases and diminishes; it increases with obedience, diminishes with disobedience; and that it is statement, deed, and belief, has been cleared from the entirety of irja', its beginning and its end.

[Abu Ma'mar]

ok bro im not going to start that all again as i think its clear that you dont understand that you contradict that statement from the salaf.

Anyway, this (http://www.al-eman.com/islamLib/viewchp.asp?BID=319&CID=2#s1) is a Q&A with Saalih al-Fawzan on the issue if anyone is intrested

[y-mughal]

I dont agree with many things that Jalal Abulrab says or talks about but i was on the show when he defended Prophet(SAW) against that dog who wrote Prophet of Doom. He did silenced that dog. For that one alone he deserves respect.

Yes may Allah (swt) reward him for that but apart from that he's a Madkhali scumbag who has believes there is no Jihad today and even declares the Brothers in Chechnya as Khawaarij - a Jihad which had the approval of Ibn Baz, Ibn Uthaymeen etc! As well as digging into Abdullah Azzam (rh) this guy proves his ignorance and neo-con manhaj by labelling anybody who resists as from the Khawaarij - people like him and Rasheed Jahmi Gonzales haven't a clue as to who really fits the description and in reality when they look in the mirror they are the ones who exhibit certain characteristics of the Khawaarij as Ali al-Timimi (fa) pointed out.

[rasheed gonzales]

ok bro im not going to start that all again as i think its clear that you dont understand that you contradict that statement from the salaf.

Anyway, this (http://www.al-eman.com/islamLib/viewchp.asp?BID=319&CID=2#s1) is a Q&A with Saalih al-Fawzan on the issue if anyone is intrested
Jazakallah khairan for the link (I'm reading through it now).

I understood what you mentioned in your post just fine and chose not to address it to avoid getting into further discussion and debate on this forum regarding this topic.

What you mentioned about faith consisting of three parts and ceasing if one of the three are removed has been addressed in some of the articles I've posted to my blog; particularly these three: Faith is Two Faiths, Faith is Not a Single Reality, and Is the Limbs' Deed Included in Faith's Root? (this last one addresses something mentioned by Shaikh Salih al-Fawzan in the first question).

[Abu Ma'mar]

Yes may Allah (swt) reward him for that but apart from that he's a Madkhali scumbag who has believes there is no Jihad today and even declares the Brothers in Chechnya as Khawaarij - a Jihad which had the approval of Ibn Baz, Ibn Uthaymeen etc! As well as digging into Abdullah Azzam (rh) this guy proves his ignorance and neo-con manhaj by labelling anybody who resists as from the Khawaarij - people like him and Rasheed Jahmi Gonzales haven't a clue as to who really fits the description and in reality when they look in the mirror they are the ones who exhibit certain characteristics of the Khawaarij as Ali al-Timimi (fa) pointed out.


Where does he say there is no jihaad today? He said that there is jihad today in those posts that br Rasheed linked to.

Where did he have a dig at Abdullah Azzam? he said that he had a part in opposition to Jameel al-Rahman ( Ra) he didnt say he killed him!.

I dont know why he calls the Chechniyan mujaahidoon Khawarij, maybe he's referring to those who did the beslan thing Allahu alam.

[Salah ad-Din]

brother, Rasheed Gonzales!
Assalamu aleikum wa rahmatullah
I have read some of your translations, and I ask Allah to reward you for your efforts!

But what you believe regarding "iman" is irja without doubt! The only difference between you and murjia al-fuqaha is in words, not in reality!
They dont call a'mal a part of iman, rather "fruits of iman", and in reality they say that a muslim who abandons all a'mal al-jawarih is mu'min, but fasiq! He doesn't become kafir and leaving a'mal doesn't negate iman!

And you say that a'mal is called "iman", but leaving a'mal doesnt constitute kufr, rather that person becomes fasiq, but he is still a muslim.

As you see the only diffirence is in giving names, you just play with words. But in reality in terms of reason and consequences you have the same belief, irja...

It's as saying...a'mal is a part of iman, but which iman? 1) real iman that saves one from the fire i.e. haqiqi iman or 2) abstract iman that only makes difference between fasiq and real mu'min?... So here you have proble..in fact i can quote several points from Ibn Taimiyya where he explains it! And how ridiculous is it to defend 'Ali al-Halabi against those majot ulama, while you accuse others with disrespecting scholars or diminishing their understanding of the deen! And in reality it is you who has claimed that those ulama do not have a clue in such issue, i.e. "the reality of imaan"...

No offence!

[Abuz Zubair]

No, it's not. Irja' is to say that actions and deeds are not part of faith and that faith does not increase or diminish.

As Imams Ahmad, al-Barbahari and others have said, whoever says (i.e., believes) that faith increases and diminishes; it increases with obedience, diminishes with disobedience; and that it is statement, deed, and belief, has been cleared from the entirety of irja', its beginning and its end

Another smokescreen to justify your Irja. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the statements of the Salaf. It is only your understand thereof is wrong.

Moreover, a person like you who has been writing articles on this issue should be aware that even the latter Ash'aris (who are Murjia of the worst category) agree that Iman increases and decreases. Some Murji'a even stated as the Salaf did, that faith is statements and actions. Would you apply the words of Imam Ahmad and al-Barbahari to them, too?

al-Imam Harb al-Kirmani says, "I heard Ishaq say: They claim that the first one to espouse Irja was al-Hasan b. Muhammad b. al-Hanafiya. Later, the Murjia became so extreme that they said: the one who abandons the obligatory prayers, fasting in ramadan, Hajj and the rest of the obligations without denying it, then we do not declare him to be a disbeliever. Rather, the judgement on him is left to Allah, as long as he is acknowledging the obligations. These people are not doubt Murjia. They are then further divided into three types:

From them are those who say: We are believers with absolute certainty. They don't say: (we are believers) in Allah's sight. They also believe that Imam is statements and actions. They are the closest to the truth."

So here is a group of Murjia who believed that Iman is actions and statements, yet Ishaq stilled declared them Murjia.

Secondly, when one says: Iman is actions and statements, is necessitates two things: a) Iman is NOT valid without actions, just as it isn't valid without statements, and b) Kufr occurs in statements as it occurs in actions.

If a person disagrees with this then he cannot be a Sunni, even if he clutches on to 'Iman is statements and actions', because consideration is only given to the reality of what is saying and not the wording.

Similarly, if a person were to say that Iman is actions and statements and it increases and decreases, and yet, he made takfeer on those who commit major sins, no doubt he would be from the khawarij, because this is the reality of his belief, and in this case, no attention is paid to his claim that Iman increases and decreases.

Sh Salih al-Fawzan was asked, "Is it correct for one to say that whoever considers Iman to be composed of statements and actions, and that it increases and decreases, he is cleared from Irja in its entirety, even if he says that kufr only occurs in beliefs and by rejection?"

He replied, "This is a contradiction, because if one says: Kufr only occurs in belief or by rejection, then this contradicts his words: Iman is statements, beliefs and actions. This is because if Iman to him really is composed of statements, beliefs and actions, and that it increases with obedience and decreases with disobedience, then this entails that whoever lacks actions entirely, he cannot be a believer. This is because Iman is composed of all these things where one is not sufficient without the other. Similarly, kufr does not only occur with rejection; rather, rejection is just one of the types of kufr. Hence, Kufr occurs in statements, actions, beliefs, by doubting as the scholars have mentioned. You can refer to the chapter on the rulings pertaining to apostates in the works of Fiqh."

So no, you are not at all free from Irja. You are one of the heretical groups in existence today masquerading as Salafis.

[Ibn Jafar]

Iman is NOT valid without actions, just as it isn't valid without statements.


So how does the opinion that one who abandons the salah is still muslim fit into this?

[Salah ad-Din]

Ibn Jafar, abandoning salah is another issue and abandoning jins al-'amal is a different issue. We talk here about the second one.
Ibn Baaz was asked:
وسيأتي في فتاوي سماحة الشيخ ابن باز رحمه الله لما سئل عمن لم يكفر تارك الصلاة من السلف ، أيكون العمل عنده شرط كمال ؟
"Those amongst salaf who did not make takfir upon abandoning salah, does a'mal (action) become condition for completeness (of iman) according to them?"
لا ، بل العمل عند الجميع شرط صحة ، إلا أنهم اختلفوا فيما يصح الإيمان به منه ؛ فقالت جماعة : إنه الصـلاة ، وعليـه إجماع الصحابـة رضـي الله عنهم ، كما حكاه عبـد الله بـن شقيـق. وقـال آخـرون بغـيرها. إلا أن جنس العمل لابد منه لصحة الإيمان عند السلف جميعاً. لهذا الإيمان عنـدهم قـول وعمـل واعتقـاد ، لا يصح إلا بها مجتمعة
"No. a'mal is a condition for soundness of imaan according to all of them, except that they differed about one matter: "which of these actions makes imaan sound?" A group of them said: "It's salah, and sahaba unanimously agreed upon it as it was related by Abdullah bin Shaqiq and others prefered other actions. But jins al-'amal (apparent actions of limbs as one complete entity) should exist in order iman to be sound according to all salaf.That's why iman for them is saying with tongue, action with limbs and belief and iman is correct only with these three together.."
"Jarida ar-Riad", number: 12506

So this is an answer from Shaikh Ibn Baz who was a head of al-Lajnah when they banned the book of Murad Shukri which was also promoted by al-Halabi...

[justabro]

That's hilarious considering the fact that you have no clue what irja' is, no clue what my thoughts and beliefs on jihad are such that you can accuse me of belittling it, or any clue what my "entire manhaj revolves around".
Well, I do know that according to you, your shaykh, Salim al-Hilali, declared al-Khattab a Takfiri.

[justabro]

Maybe that's what happens after one chases after faults of other people.

Most who are on the one end of extreme end up falling into another. Allahu A'lam.

I only stumbled on faults while looking for excuses for the man. What I found was extremely disturbing.

[anam]

Eemaan, Kufr & Refuting The Opposers - Shaykh Khaalid Al-Anbari
Translated into English

http://calltoislam.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=4&id=18&Itemid=26



Why would they refute their salafi friends?
What is their agenda?



..Q & A Session with Shaikh Saaleh al-Fawzaan and Shaikh Abdul-Azeez Ar-Rajehi (hafidhahullah) on Issues of Eeman and Kufr
Translated into English

http://www.ahya.org/realaudio/farsi/ques1.rm

http://www.ahya.org/realaudio/farsi/ques2.rm

[anam]

Instead, they all say the verse is speaking of the general condition of a people. If it is good and turns to bad, then Allah will change what is with them of good to bad. Likewise, the opposite: if the general condition of a people is bad and turns to good, Allah will change what is with them of bad to good.

.


This is why the Ummaah is trying to change ..
why some salafis want the same old then i dont know

the rulers are a reflection of the deviant salafis and sinners not the Mu'min in Allaah [swt]



And we believe that the statement ''Establish the Islamic State in your breasts and it will be established for you in your land'' has a Jabari, Irja'i meaning to those who state it.

And we believe that the Diving Promises in the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger are commandments to the Muslims to undertake the means for them and to strive to achieve them.

[asharee_salafi]

This is why the Ummaah is trying to change ..
why some salafis want the same old then i dont know

the rulers are a reflection of the deviant salafis and sinners not the Mu'min in Allaah [swt]



And we believe that the statement ''Establish the Islamic State in your breasts and it will be established for you in your land'' has a Jabari, Irja'i meaning to those who state it.

And we believe that the Diving Promises in the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger are commandments to the Muslims to undertake the means for them and to strive to achieve them.


My point to brother Rasheed, which was ignored by him, was not fully addressed. He seems to think the ayat 'Allah will never change a condition of a people until they change what is within themselves' means that if a ruler legislates other then Allah such as banning the Hijaab, then you shouldnt change the munkar let alone speak out against it.

So he think sthats if you pray, then this will automatically change the situation of the Muslims and the ruler, who for example, bans the hijaab.

In other words, this remind me of the Qadariyyah sect who beleive that you are like a leaf in the wind ( if my memory states correctly), so they allow people to do munkar thinking this is what Allah willed.


If we go by this logic, then if u want someone to become Muslim, all you do is pray more but dont do any action....according to this logica, if someone is being attacked in the street, then don't intervene because you are a bad Muslim, all you do is extra nawafil and that attack immediately stops...if youw ant a job, dont worry about applying, just do extra nawafil...lol...i hope you can see where this leads too!!

They think that calling to Tawheed and its implementation contradicts the above ayat.

I wonder how the Prophet Sallahu alahi wasallam changed society...I wonder how Sh Abdul Wahab changed society....it definitely wasn't through in action and putting ones head in the sand and hoping for the best.

[anam]

They say this because they fear mass fitnah and confusion

this is where the ummah split and a reason for all the name calling and debates

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=11758

[asharee_salafi]

They say this because they fear mass fitnah and confusion

this is where the ummah split and a reason for all the name calling and debates

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=11758

but merely doing takfeer or accounting a ruler doesnt mean that one is going to rebel...I think they fear that the Muslims I will unite and they'd be in the back seat

[ali]

its funny though right? they make du'a aginst the Muslims, asking Allah to break their backs, curse them, and let them die in jahiliyyah...but when it comes to crusdaing armies, they questionw hether its OK to make du'a against them. lol

your judging the totality of ahlu-sunnah on the action of a jahil

yes these people are hillarious
they have the attitude of the ''kawaariji''
its funny how fast they label others kawaariji while they themselves fit the description

fit what description. you mean salafis call all of the leaders of muslims tawagheet, call to revolution even if it lands us to the fire of hell, and makes takfeer of muslims based on their fatwa they got from Abu Scumza. Yeah, if salafis did that, then they would be khawarij, and therefore not salafi anymore.

i dont think anyone outside the madkhali group would approach rabee
he isnt that popular and famous , even in most parts of saudi arabia they never heard of him he is more famous in the west because of his students

I agree, Madkhli is not known and there has been some major mistakes on his part, some of which is unbecoming. As a brother has told me "he is a shaykh for westerners"

even with that, so what. Your charging him with munafiq style beliefs, thus making takfeer on him, due to your heretic cultish alligience to Abdul-Iblees al-Faysal, may AllaH sink him with his partner in crime ibn salul




Can you imagine Sh Bin Baz asking Rabee who is hizbi and who is not? LOL

um, that wasn;t the intent of her post akh, rather it was signifying that despite your enmity of him, for some reason, those whom you do not reach the hair folicle in their nostrils have a totally different view of him.

Just think, the trees and rocks will tell the salafi 'come there is a Jew hiding behind me' the salafi will say 'ok wait, i will get fatwa'

others will say to the trees and rocks
''go away you liar! We have covenant of security'' : D

actuall thats wrong.

the salafi, as is explained by the scholars, was the one described in that very naration when the rock will say "ya abdullah......". the abdullah in this hadeeth means soemone who fulfills the uboodiyyah of Allah. That minuses all of you, and the khawarij on this forum. Actually where your heretics come in is after the rock calls out to the salafi and the salafi responds, then your quirish friends like abdul-iblees al-faysal will yell out to you "now kill that munafiq" refering to the salafi. Thats where your heretical cult hawalian party comes into play may Allah guide you all back to the deen

Gateway to secularism...

If it wasn't for the Salafis in the West becoming modernists and one even become fully grown secularist, I wouldn't have said that.

what a deviant heretic you are.

anyways, what "salafi" has become "asrani" and what salafis has become alamaani

I hate putting my nose is such threads, but did anybody see one of the MADAKHILA in any jihad place , either in IRAQ , PALESTINE , KESHMIRE , AFGHANISTAN , BOSNIA , SOMALIA , ERITERIA , CHECHENYA , DAGISTAN , INGUSHTIA , INDONESIA...etc

yeah, if you consider abu usamah a madkhali, then yeah, in fact i know a few "madkhalis [read as: anyone who does not revile Rabee bin Hadi like enemies of Islam do] who have already served. But i would expect complete lies like this coming from your virtual atheist cult

Maasha'Allah... This is why people like Qutb, Azzam are so respected yet the modern day madhkali only inspire hatred.

wrong deviant

azzam is highly looked up upon by "deemed madkhalis". likewise with qutb, the problem deemed "madkhalis" have with him is his sufi/ash'ari,dhul-quwaisran style manhaj of absolute takfeer of all muslims in muslim countires.

that was the problem, not about trying to reinforce the true Islamic khilafa.

but again, heretics like you are blinded with rabid satanic hatred for Islam and the muslims, and of course you would. your the followers of abdul-iblees al-faysal al-faget

Really? That's interesting. According to brother Jalal Abualrub, who says he knew Shaikh 'Abdullah 'Azzam personally, the shaikh was nothing like Qutb or any of the people today who claim him to be their inspiration. He gives his account of his experience with the shaikh here (http://www.islamlife.com/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=6&thread_id=234&pid=808#post_808) and in some of the posts that follow.

As for what I stated in my post, then consider this:

Allah says, «Or when a calamaty strikes you, half the likes of which you have caused, you say, "Where is this from?" Say: It is from yourselves. Surely, Allah is capable of everything» (3:165).

In Miftah Dar as-Sa'adah, Ibn al-Qayyim said,


So you can blame others all you want. According to Allah, in the end, our disobedience and sins are the cause of our humiliation and oppression. Thus, we're the only ones to blame for our own misfortunes.


I'm not surprising you'd think that, at all.

But if you think that asking Allah to guide the people and to grant them succcess in performing and implementing their religion as a means and a precuror for establishing Islamic rule over the Muslims is a gateway to secularism, than that's your problem.

brother rasheed, i did not want to bring abu ahmad's name up. his mujahid name is ubbefitting to be in an anti islamic forum like this one. They might try to harm the shaykh for his efforts in jihaad.

You know very well no one disputes tasfiya and tarbiya. What we have noticed from you, however, is that these two words are used as a smokescreen to promote secular mentality. 'Don't worry about the rulers, concentrate on your prayers and fasts and everything will be ok...'

Lo and behold, we have openly secularist anti-Islamist Salafis today.

you declare the religion of salafis as "secularism". my Allah curse you and your rabid zandiqa

why the hell are you not pronouncing as secualarists al-humaydee, or why not hasan al-basri, or why not virtually the rest of the people who established our ummah. You dare not declare them secualrist even though your heart views our salaf as secualrist may ALlah curse you

again the catastrophe of your ignorance is in oyur satanic analogy that "concerntrating one the muslims who do not pray, make zeena, and do all fisq rather than on their rulers" equals secularism. then your the first deviant in the world to interpret secualrism in a way that no secularist has defined their kufr.

that means not only are you a deviant heretic cult follower of hawali, but as well your a complete sumbass, and possibly the pen is lifted from your book

Thanks for that. I disagree with Jalal Abualrub on some things he says, but from the stuff ive heard of him and read he seems like is a sincere brother in shaa' Allah.

Has his book 'prophet of mercy' come out yet? I remember him mentioning it in a debate he had with an anti-islamic writer.

how dare you proclaim love for this man you easily deem as "madkhali"
come back to Islam of the prophet first before you even mention his name or read his material.

What do you understand from 'gateway', dear brother? If I thought you were secularists I would have said so. You should know I don't mince my words. I said you are the gateway to secularism since your entire manhaj revolves around defending the status-quo of rulers that are worst than the batiniya. To this end you adopt Irja. To this end you belittle fiqh al-waqi. To this end you belittled Jihad. To this end you excluded politics from Tasfiya and Tarbiya. Wasn't it Abu Shaqra - when he was still with you - who explicitly defined his Salafiyya as, 'render unto Caesar what is his and unto God what is His?' Thank God Allah saved him from you and he changed.

Where do you think Usama Hasan comes from? Did he drop from the skies?

wrong. our manhaj by default of correcting peopel, involves correcting the rulers. your manhaj, involves correcting the only rulrs only. NAd that is your catastrophe, Allah made your deeds null and in vain, like the fools that you are you cannot even realize that.

we don't belittle jihaad, that is why we teach it. our jihaad is not the irhaab of juhayman


Every heretic claims that his words are backed up by statements from the Salaf. Ash'aris do the same, so in that regard you are no different. Everyone claims that his opponent doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Again, nothing new.

What's important here is for you to acknowledge your Jahmi belief that Iman is belief only, as this is what suffice for salvation. Thank you very much.



thanks for proving yourself as the liar that your are.

Rasheed, have you read The transcribed Q&A on iman and kufr by Salih al-Fawzan?

I say this as you say that abuz-zubayr doesn't know what irjaa' is but what he is saying is exactly what other scholars have been saying.

You say that Someone can just have belief in their heart but the scholars say that you cant have iman with out the 3 parts( belief in the heart, words on the tounge, and actions on the limbs) if you remove one part you dont have iman and you are not a muslim.

You cant have tasdeeq in the heart and words on the tounge with the exclusion of actions on the limb, you cant have actions on the limbs and words on the tounge with the exclusion of tasdeeq in the heart and so on. All of them must be together to have iman.

You say that you only need belief in the heart to have iman with exclusion of words on the tounge and actions on the limbs.

This is irjaa' is it not?

of course. Im not going to affim anything for rasheed, so i will speak for myself

emaan is inseperable. one cannot have salvation by mere itiqaad alone. thats the point. when someone affirms this and does not restrict emaan to mere beleif, then he has left irj'aa n the world of the muslims but has become a murji in the world of hawali

Dear sister, as I mentioned earlier,
No, it's not. Irja' is to say that actions and deeds are not part of faith and that faith does not increase or diminish.

As Imams Ahmad, al-Barbahari and others have said, whoever says (i.e., believes) that faith increases and diminishes; it increases with obedience, diminishes with disobedience; and that it is statement, deed, and belief, has been cleared from the entirety of irja', its beginning and its end.

akhe rasheed. while this is true, but this is amm in its scope. what these simpletones here are getting as the the details of faith. Of course, i agree, this is what irj'aa is, and agree to their ignorance on what the heck irj'aa is, however they ae arguing around symantical aspects of this topic.

Yes may Allah (swt) reward him for that but apart from that he's a Madkhali scumbag who has believes there is no Jihad today and even declares the Brothers in Chechnya as Khawaarij - a Jihad which had the approval of Ibn Baz, Ibn Uthaymeen etc! As well as digging into Abdullah Azzam (rh) this guy proves his ignorance and neo-con manhaj by labelling anybody who resists as from the Khawaarij - people like him and Rasheed Jahmi Gonzales haven't a clue as to who really fits the description and in reality when they look in the mirror they are the ones who exhibit certain characteristics of the Khawaarij as Ali al-Timimi (fa) pointed out.

this is coming from a an enemy of Allah who performed no jihaad, speaking about a mujahid. May ALlah curse the munafiqeen.

your kufr is more absurd then everyone else's on this forum.

you are a mujahi hater. thank you for exposing your heretic infidelity

Abu Zubair said
Moreover, a person like you who has been writing articles on this issue should be aware that even the latter Ash'aris (who are Murjia of the worst category) agree that Iman increases and decreases. Some Murji'a even stated as the Salaf did, that faith is statements and actions. Would you apply the words of Imam Ahmad and al-Barbahari to them, too?

wrong you deviant moron, Ash'aris are the the third worse in the spectrum of emaan, the mutazilah being worse than them, and the jahmiyyah, being worse than them.

[y-mughal]

“The Pen has been lifted from three: from the insane person until he comes back to his senses, from the sleeper until he wakes up and from the minor until he reaches puberty.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (4399); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

You need help big time. May Allah (swt) cure you.

[ali]

You need help big time. May Allah (swt) cure you.

this is coming from someone who renders a mujahid as a madkhali khariji and reviler of the khawaarij (as if that is a bad thing)

you are the one that needs a curing. i need a pill to withstand your heresy

[Abu Shu'aib]

You need help big time. May Allah (swt) cure you.

ameen!

[justabro]

likewise with qutb, the problem deemed "madkhalis" have with him is his sufi/ash'ari,dhul-quwaisran style manhaj of absolute takfeer of all muslims in muslim countires.

Which is a complete lie, as documented by Dr. Salah al-Khalidi in his biography of Syed Qutb.

[ali]

Which is a complete lie, as documented by Dr. Salah al-Khalidi in his biography of Syed Qutb.

so therefore, fawzaan is a liar

or did khalidi perform some kind of ultra t'awil with his words to mean other than what he said in fi dhilaaliquran

kinda reminds me how the sufis play around with al-busairi's words in the qaseeda, and how they perform such interpretative gymnastics with the futuhaat al-makkiyyah

[justabro]

so therefore, fawzaan is a liar

or did khalidi perform some kind of ultra t'awil with his words to mean other than what he said in fi dhilaaliquran

no, no ta'wil... the ta'wil is in the words of those who say his books result in mass takfir, as many deviant groups did infer... but that was not at all what syed qutb intended. Having read through some of his tafsir, there is nothing explicit of that sort whatsoever.

Secondly, Khalidi mentions reports that before Syed Qutb died, he learned that some people were inferring takfir from his works and he specifically denied that that was his intent.

kinda reminds me how the sufis play around with al-busairi's words in the qaseeda, and how they perform such interpretative gymnastics with the futuhaat al-makkiyyah

NOne of which you have read... so thanks, but no thanks

[Salah ad-Din]

no, no ta'wil... the ta'wil is in the words of those who say his books result in mass takfir, as many deviant groups did infer... but that was not at all what syed qutb intended. Having read through some of his tafsir, there is nothing explicit of that sort whatsoever.

Secondly, Khalidi mentions reports that before Syed Qutb died, he learned that some people were inferring takfir from his works and he specifically denied that that was his intent.



NOne of which you have read... so thanks, but no thanks

Brother, can you post link to Dr. Salah al-Khalidis book. Barakallahu fik!

[Abuz Zubair]

Ali is in one of those jahili moods again...

[Hamza]

I missed Ali, he is even more fun than Basic.

[Abuz Zubair]

NOne of which you have read... so thanks, but no thanks

LOL... this is what makes them a laughing stock. It is amazing how conceited the heretics get, and I guess, this might just be the cause of their misguidance.

[ali]

NOne of which you have read... so thanks, but no thanks


right,

okay al-baseer al-aleem (rhetorical)

[ali]

LOL... this is what makes them a laughing stock. It is amazing how conceited the heretics get, and I guess, this might just be the cause of their misguidance.

says Mr. salafis belittle fiqhul-waqia

the problem is you are the musa richardson in kharijism

tawheed, to musa richardson, is jarh wa t'adeel of which he said on hizbitalk "knowledge of knowing who people are is equal (or more important than) with tawheed.

the hawaalian menace equates fiqhul-waqia as the tawheed

and the mutazilah, their tawheed is pure tanzih even from Allah.

[melo061]

I have never seen anyone use so many insults and vulgar language in one post than Ali just did.

And people have the nerve to complain about AZ? Lmao. Guys, i guess you haven't seen anything yet.

[ali]

AZ is just a plain stupid heretic who apparently has a brain in refuting ash'aris and then decides to smoke crack regarding kufr and emaan.

and yes, i don;t care how vulgar my lanugage is to a bunch of wretch

when i deal with the normality of muslim brothers, that does not happen, but heresy to me is like kryptonite to superman

[Salah ad-Din]

Ali, do you believe that you may represent salafi aqida?
how can you even represent your family, subhanallah?
If you do not consider us muslims, then care about yourself...you have become takfiri!!!! And if you consider us muslims, then dont insult muslims, because insulting muslims is fisq!
How can you represent any group?! And I dont believe that you even represent your family..because your slanderous posts are not but only shame...

[asharee_salafi]

AZ is just a plain stupid heretic who apparently has a brain in refuting ash'aris and then decides to smoke crack regarding kufr and emaan.

and yes, i don;t care how vulgar my lanugage is to a bunch of wretch

when i deal with the normality of muslim brothers, that does not happen, but heresy to me is like kryptonite to superman

salahu deen, he is takferi and khariji, he already labelled people as kuffar and made a dua of shirk that they die jahil! not the first time mind you this khariji cult has said things of that nature....

give it a few years, he'll be sufi.

[abbccdd]

is Ali the same guy as al-boriqee from the english multaqa forums?

[abu_ibrahim]

smoke crack

Just have a look at your irrational ramblings, you are a huge embarrassment even to your cult. You pop up like the little parasite that you are every so often repeating the same excrement.

[Abu Ma'mar]

Just have a look at your irrational ramblings, you are a huge embarrassment even to your cult. You pop up like the little parasite that you are every so often repeating the same excrement.


Yeah, i really think people who understand Iman and kufr like him would really be embarrassed by reading this rubbish coming from him.

[Hamza]

Just have a look at your irrational ramblings, you are a huge embarrassment even to your cult. You pop up like the little parasite that you are every so often repeating the same excrement.

lol, yep he deserves it.

[Abu Shu'aib]

وَعِبَادُ الرَّحْمَنِ الَّذِينَ يَمْشُونَ عَلَى الْأَرْضِ هَوْنًا وَإِذَا خَاطَبَهُمُ الْجَاهِلُونَ قَالُوا سَلَامًا

And the slaves of the Most Beneficent (Allâh) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness. [Al-Furqan 25:63]

[Abdullah Abbas]

this salafi discussion is a waste of time the ''label'' was started to be different from other sects/groups to so called distinguish from other groups but in fact it did not because it has itsself many splinter groups.

some salafis are good others not its like every group you have good and bad
but people didnt benefit from this label.

may Allah guide us all

[anam]

I aggree, the labelling was a bad move, though the justifications were there.

Ali should offer some nawafil

others should listen to the audio I posted by Khalid Anbaree called 'Eman & Kufr- refuting the opposers' : ]
to understand Mr Boriquee and co's understanding in eman/kufr
tawheed/shirk and takfeer

[ali]

Ali, do you believe that you may represent salafi aqida?
how can you even represent your family, subhanallah?
If you do not consider us muslims, then care about yourself...you have become takfiri!!!! And if you consider us muslims, then dont insult muslims, because insulting muslims is fisq!
How can you represent any group?! And I dont believe that you even represent your family..because your slanderous posts are not but only shame...

so basically the Prophet salallahu alaihi wa sallam was insulting "muslims" when he called you'all the dogs of hellfire

besides, there is no slander here, at least on my part.
I never insinuated that some of you make takfer for major sins dressing them up as n