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anonymouse
19th June 2008, 08:06 PM
there is no Muslim Shia nowadays…
http://www.darultawhid.com/en/forum/index.php?topic=1946.0

Ibn Al-Qayyim in Al-Turuq Al-Hakmiyyah said:

قال ابن القيم - رحمه الله - في الطرق الحكمية :

قلت : من كفر بمذهبه ؛ كمن ينكر حدوث العالم ، وحشر الأجساد ، وعلم الرب تعالى بجميع الكائنات ، وأنه فاعل بمشيئته وإرادته ، فلا تقبل شهادته لأنه على غير الإسلام . فأما أهل البدع الموافقون لأهل الإسلام ، ولكنهم مخالفون في بعض الأصول ؛ كالرافضة ، والقدرية ، والجهمية ، وغلاة المرجئة ، ونحوهم ، فهؤلاء أقسام :

I say: Those who made takfir because of his madhab –such as those who denies the alam is not (hudus) eternal; bodily gathering (in the akhirah) Allah knows everything in the universe; His ability to do whatever He wishes- their shahadah (witnessing) will not be accepted; it is because they are not among the Muslim. Among the ahl bidah such as Rafidha, Jahmiyya, Qadariyya, Ghulat Murjia; who although practice in accordance to Islam, they make opposition in some matters; are divided in sects within their selves.

My comment is: As seen clearly; Ibn Qayyim (ra) differentiates from those sects such philosophies who go against the usuluddin and that must be known as a dharura to be Muslim and those sects whose bidah do not reach to the kufr. He also does not tolerate their ignorance as an excuse for those sect whose shirk is open however he classifies the later sects of bidah whose bidah do not reach to the limits of kufr.

أحدها : الجاهل المقلد ، الذي لا بصيرة له ، فهذا لا يكفر ولا يفسق ولا ترد شهادته إذا لم يكن قادراُ على تعلم الهدى ، وحكمه حكم المستضعفين من الرجال والنساء والولدان الذين لا يستطيعون حيلة ولا يهتدون سبيلا ، فأولئك عسى الله أن يعفو عنهم وكان الله عفواً غفوراً .

The first: The jahil (ignorant) mukallid (imitator). Those are not on basirah. (Meaning they are not performing their deviation with knowledge). If these are in a state that they are not able to learn the hidayah; they will not be made takfir of nor called as fasiq. Their shahadah also will not be rejected. They are like “Except those who are (really) weak and oppressed - men, women, and children - who have no means in their power, nor (a guide-post) to their way.” And “For these, there is hope that Allah will forgive: For Allah doth blot out (sins) and forgive again and again.” see an-Nisa 4/98-99

My comment: Those imitators who imitate the ones who although accepts the general hukm of tawhid and Islam, deviated regarding the secondary matters of aqidah; will be hoped that Allah may forgive them due to their lack of power to learn the ilm. It is because Allah will not load mankind something they can not carry. “do not lay on us a burden” (al-Baqarah 2/286)

القسم الثاني : المتمكن من السؤال وطلب الهداية ومعرفة الحق ، ولكن يترك ذلك اشتغالاً بدنياه ورياسته ولذته ومعاشه وغير ذلك ، فهذا مفرط ، مستحق للوعيد ، آثم بترك ما وجب عليه من تقوى الله بحسب استطاعته ، فهذا حكمه حكم أمثاله من تاركي بعض الواجبات ، فإن غلب ما فيه من البدعة والهوى على ما فيه من السنة والهدى ردت شهادته ، وإن غلب ما فيه من السنة والهدى قبلت شهادته .

The second group: Those who while has the ability of investigating the truth and have the chance to gain the truth; for the such reasons: the business of dunya (this world), fighting for leadership, struggling to make living, are those who abandon (attaining ilm). Indeed this individual is condemned and deserves the punishment. He will be responsible in as much of his ability; regarding the fear of Allah for the things that he left which were wajib for him. His hukm is the same as those who abandon some of the wajib. If his bidah and hawa is more than his (submission to) sunnah and hidayah then his shahadah will be rejected. If his sunnah and hidayah are more (heavier) his shahadah will be accepted.

I say: Mumin will engrave the absolute wala and the kafir engraves the absolute enmity and hatred. Those having iman with fisq, fujr and bidah will be shown wala as much iman he has and also he will be shown the enmity and hatred as much deviation he has who is among the Muslim. The matter of shahadah is also same in the ruling.

القسم الثالث : أن يسأل ويطلب ويتبين له الهدى ويتركه تقليداً وتعصباً ، أو بغضاً أو معاداة لأصحابه ، فهذا أقل درجاته أن يكون فاسقاً ، وتكفيره محل اجتهاد وتفصيل ، فإن كان معلناً داعية ردت شهادته وفتاويه وأحكامه مع القدرة على ذلك ، ولم تقبل له شهادة ولا فتوى ولا حكم إلا عند الضرورة ، كحال غلبة هؤلاء واستيلائهم ، وكون القضاة والمفتين والشهود منهم ، ففي رد شهادتهم وأحكامهم إذ ذاك فساد كثير ، ولا يمكن ذلك ، فتقبل للضرورة .

Third group: Those who turn away from hidayah (meaning the aqidah of ahl sunnah) because of his taqlid and taassub (fanaticism) or his enmity and hatred towards the ahl haqq. The least degree they will own is being fasiq. The matter of making takfir of them is a matter of ijtihad and necessitates detailed explanation. If they are among the ones who calls for his bidah openly; their shahadah, fatawa and hukm they give will be rejected by those who have the power (to reject it). The shahadah, fatawa and the hukm of such will not be accepted unless in a state of dharurah (necessity). This will only take place in situation as when they seize the government. It is not possible when the qadi, muftu and witnesses are from among this ahl bidah; it will cause a big chaos to reject their shahadah and hukm. Their shahadah will be accepted due to dharurah.

As a result: Ibn Qayyim (ra) here speaking regarding the acceptance or rejection of the shahadah of the ahl bidah whose bidah do not reach the level of kufr. His acceptance of their ignorance as an excuse for them is also related with this issue. This hukm is not valid for the Shia of today.


First of all there is not only one group of Shia in the past; indeed they were many and they all had difference in aqidah. For those who are interested may refer to the books of the history of madhabs. I am going to paste the classification of Shia groups by Imam Shatibi:

Shia sects (http://www.darultawhid.com/en/forum/index.php?topic=1368.0)

a) Ghulat
1- Sabaiyya
2- Kamiliyya
3- Bayaniyya
4- Mughiriyya
5- Janahiyya
6- Mansuriyya
7- Hattabiyya
8- Ghurabiyya
9- Zammiyya
10- Hishamiyya
11- Zurariyya
12- Yunusiyya
13- Shaytaniyya
14- Ridhamiyya
15- Mufawwiza
16- Badaiyya
17- Nasriyya
18- Ismailiyya
i) Batiniyya
ii) Karamita
iii) Haramiyya
iv) Sab’iyya
v) Babakiyya
vi) Hamdiyya
b) Zaydiyya
1- Jarudiyya
2- Sulaymaniyya
3- Bashiriyya
c) Imamiyya

Today even among those who attribute themselves to sunnah there is only a little real ahl tawhid; I do not understand what they are trying to bring forth those who claim that there are some who will be excused due to his ignorance among The Rafidha of today. And it is very known fact that the major shirk of today’s Shia are democracy, worshipping the taghouts, grave worshipping, tasawwuf which are same as those who claim to be sunnih.

revolution and the revolutionists on the scale of tawhid (http://www.darultawhid.com/en/forum/index.php?topic=1756.0)

In summary the revolutionists of the Republic of Iran and their supporters -this includes the one who does not make takfir of them- are in kufr for so many points and we are going to list 10 of them (except not actualizing the rejection of taghout, but being a taghout itself of the Republic of Iran):

1- They held a referendum for bringing the shariah in.

2- Being a member of the UN and its sub-establishments.

3- Taking kafir and mushriks as friends and brothers.

4- Showing respect and revering towards the flags and national anthem of the kuffar.

5- Accepting and labeling as Muslims, those in the so called Islamic countries which are governed with democracy, nationalism, socialism etc such as Turkey, Tunisia, and Syria etc. Iran, accepts as Muslims, those so called Islamic countries which have Shiite and sufistic beliefs and movements in their countries such as Azarbayjan, Pakistan etc.

6- Supporting and showing respect to wahdati-i wujud and taking deviated supervisors as wali of Allah.

7- Permitting to ask madad-shafaah from the dead and not making takfir of them

8- Believing the imams know the unseen

9- Believing the Qur’an was altered and/or not making takfir of those who claims that the Qur’an is altered, but showing respect to them.

10- Supporting the democratic systems by supporting the taghouti hizb.

It is possible and very easy to extend the list but we believe the message we want to share is understood. We only listed the major kufr, not the bidah and other deviations. We are trying to warn those who have sincerity but on the wrong path. Those supporters of Iran may understand that Iran is not a daru’l-Islam and with making a tawbah then attend to a new struggle with a new aqedah, -aqedah of salafi salihin- before the torment of Allah (awj) finds them. May Allah keep us in the path of RasulAllah (saw), his blessed ashab and the truthful salafi salihin…

Some other kufr of theirs will be listed as the following:

1- Their belief regarding the revelation of wahy to Fatima (raa), and the Qur’an which had revealed to her.

2- Their belief regarding their imam being masum (innocent)

3- Their takfir towards to the majority of sahaba and Muslim

4- Their rejection of the sunnah and hadith

As a last word I can say there were some sects of Shia of the past whose bidah do not reach kufr, they did not receive takfir however they are not in existence nowadays. Among those which exist today the Zaydiyya is the only sect that there was an ikhtilaf on regarding their kufr. This hukm will only be valid for those among Zaydiyya of today who rejects the taghout and the shirk of today’s world. The one who looks with basirah will surely see that the Shia of today are to most distant to tawhid; and there is no need to talk about the muwahhid amongst them. They are deviants not only in the furu al-Iman, but also in the usul al-Iman. In the language of ahlu’l-fiqh, the one who deviates from Islam in furu is a bidah holder, and the one who deviates from Islam in usul is a kafir. Their deviation is not only in matters of haram and halal, but also in matter of shirk and tawhid; they are not to be accounted between ahlu’l-qiblah and ahl tawhid, they are separated from the millah of Islam and ummah, therefore they all are kafir and there is no Muslim Shia nowadays…

Shi'ites - exploiters of the Ahlul Bayt (http://www.darultawhid.com/en/forum/index.php?board=16.0)

Muslim4life101
24th June 2008, 04:55 PM
Only zaydiyyah sect are muslims.All other shias left islam...

Nu7
24th June 2008, 10:25 PM
Darultakfeer, the Zaydiyyah are considered to be misguided/deviant muslims.

Sawtul Islam
25th June 2008, 06:37 PM
The Zaydis are Muslims and they are fighting the tawagheet in their country (Yemen).

I personally dont differentiate between Zaydis and Ahlus-Sunnah, although they are called "Shiah" they have almost nothing in common with Ismailis and 12 Imamis other than saying that Ali (ra) should have been the first Caliph, and some of them simply say it would have been better if he was the first Caliph).

The whole "Shiah versus Sunni" thing can get confusing, it would probably be better if we said Muslim versus Rafidhi instead, then the Zaydis would be among the Muslims and the 12 Imami and Ismailis would be among the Rafidhah.

Abu Ma'mar
25th June 2008, 07:37 PM
The Zaydis are Muslims and they are fighting the tawagheet in their country (Yemen).

Fear Allah and stop talking about things which you have no knowldge of.

Those idol worshipers fighting in the north were Rafidha paid and supported by Iran to take a base around the arabian penisular.

I can tell you that Zaydi's who dont do shirk are rare indeed. If they think your Salafi they will probably lie to you about that.

Sh Muqbil would confront them about their shirk then when he was weak. Then when he became a scholar and had thousands of students he would smash their places of shirk where he could and tell his students to do the same.

So like i said, Zaydi's who don't do shirk are rare especially with Rafidha of iran supporting them with money in hopes of getting influence in the area


I personally dont differentiate between Zaydis and Ahlus-Sunnah

Thats because your not from Ahl al-sunnah yourself. Anyone who says Ali is better than Abu Bakr , 'Umar or 'uthmaan is a deviant.

Sawtul Islam
25th June 2008, 07:45 PM
Fear Allah and stop talking about things which you have no knowldge of.

Those idol worshipers fighting in the north were Rafidha paid and supported by Iran to take a base around the arabian penisular.

I can tell you that Zaydi's who dont do shirk are rare indeed. If they think your Salafi they will probably lie to you about that.

Sh Muqbil would confront them about their shirk then when he was weak. Then when he became a scholar and had thousands of students he would smash their places of shirk where he could and tell his students to do the same.

So like i said, Zaydi's who don't do shirk are rare especially with Rafidha of iran supporting them with money in hopes of getting influence in the area




Thats because your not from Ahl al-sunnah yourself. Anyone who says Ali is better than Abu Bakr , 'Umar or 'uthmaan is a deviant.



What are you talking about? The Government of Yemen is a puppet of the USA and killing anti-American Muslims.

I have seen Yemeni brothers saying that in Yemen Sunnis and Zaydis are so close that it's hard to tell the difference.


As for Iran, there are always claim that Iran is helping Muslims do Jihad, be it in Iraq, Afghanistan or Yemen. There are claims that Iran is arming the Taliban and al-Qaeda as well, do you believe such claims???

If not then why do you believe the same about the Zaydis??

Sawtul Islam
25th June 2008, 07:57 PM
Thats because your not from Ahl al-sunnah yourself. Anyone who says Ali is better than Abu Bakr , 'Umar or 'uthmaan is a deviant.

There are many views held by some Sunnis that are far worse but they are still Sunni.

Why would someone not be Sunni or Muslim for saying Ali (ra) is better? There are in fact ahaadith that say so and some Sunni scholars have even said that they are authentic.

So we have Hadith that say Abu Bakr (ra) is the best and others that say Ali (ra) is, if someone has the opinion that the Hadith that says Ali (ra) is the best is more authentic they may have a wrong opinion but that doesn't mean they are going to hell for it or anything like that.


And when I say Sunni I mean almost every madhab, I dont do Takfir on other schools of thought, I only do Takfir on those sects whose teachings can be proven to be Kufr (such as 12 Imami, the Kharijah, the Ismaili, the Qadyani etc.)



Thats because your not from Ahl al-sunnah yourself.

How so?

Im not saying your opinion counts or anything, I just want to know why you think that.

Abu Ma'mar
25th June 2008, 08:12 PM
What are you talking about? The Government of Yemen is a puppet of the USA and killing anti-American Muslims.

I have seen Yemeni brothers saying that in Yemen Sunnis and Zaydis are so close that it's hard to tell the difference.



The people who said that to you about zaydi's either dont know their reality or they are crazy soofi's like those in tarim or san'a who do blatant shirk themselves!.



As for Iran, there are always claim that Iran is helping Muslims do Jihad, be it in Iraq, Afghanistan or Yemen. There are claims that Iran is arming the Taliban and al-Qaeda as well, do you believe such claims???

If not then why do you believe the same about the Zaydis??

Look, al-Hoothi and his son were invited by iran to come to Qom to "Talk" in 2004 then a few years later they try to make a revolt against the gov.

al-Hoothi and his people could never afford to or have weapons to even try a revolt and they got it from iran and everyone knows this.

Sawtul Islam
25th June 2008, 08:27 PM
Look, al-Hoothi and his son were invited by iran to come to Qom to "Talk" in 2004 then a few years later they try to make a revolt against the gov.

al-Hoothi and his people could never afford to or have weapons to even try a revolt and they got it from iran and everyone knows this.


According to the CIA 9/11 commission report Zarqawi lived in Iran and was secretly helped by Iran.

Also according to Wikipedia Zawahiri traveled to Iran, was trained and armed and funded by Iran and the "Hezbollah".

Also as I said therre are reports that the Taliban are armed by Iran.



So... do these reports prove anything?

And suppose that Iran did help some Zaydis, how does that "Prove" anything about the beliefs of the Zaydis???? And would that even mean that all Zaydis are helped by Iran (even if we assume that some are)??


To say that "they are bad because there are reports that Iran helped them" is simply ridiculous.


If you have a problem with their beliefs then please show proof that they believe in something that can be proven to be Kufr and then I would agree with you.

As far as I know they are not Mushrik (they dont believe their Imams are infallible) and they dont call upon their Imams, they dont believe in Mut'ah marriage and they dont do Taqiyyah.

So I dont see anything particularly wrong with them, I may disagree with some of their views the same way I disagree with some of the things Salafis believe in but I see no reason to call them deviants or infidels.

ahmedjbh
25th June 2008, 08:45 PM
According to the CIA 9/11 commission report Zarqawi lived in Iran and was secretly helped by Iran.

Also according to Wikipedia Zawahiri traveled to Iran, was trained and armed and funded by Iran and the "Hezbollah".

Also as I said therre are reports that the Taliban are armed by Iran.


lol, you have to be joking. Can you show us the souce?

Abu Ma'mar
25th June 2008, 08:53 PM
You are soo silly.

Yemen is one of America's main allies in the war against islam, so revolt in Yemen especially since U.S has been keeping Ali Abdullah Saalih in power for nearly 30yrs, would not be something that America would want, so ameirca lying about Iran funding them is another conspiracy theory of yours.

And FYI i did not get that info of Al-Hoothi's meeting in 2004 from western media as this is known. al-hoothi is a famous guy.


As for them being helped by Iran meaning they are rafidhi then yes, it does mean that.

Iran would not want to put in power Zaydi's as they believe Zaydi's to be disbelievers for not making takfir of Abu Bakr and 'Umar.

And like i said Al-Hoothi and his group would never had enough money or the courage to revolt against the gov.

It would have been suicide as (1) no sunni's would have supported them,(2) the Jihadi's would have killed them and taken power for themselves, (3) the gov would have and did crush them.

Thinking that a powerful country like Iran was behind them would be the only reason for them ever thinking that shia could rule a sunni country.

It wasnt america as Yemen is a main allie of america so who would do it and who would have a motive for giving them the weapons and finance? IRAN IRAN IRAN.

Sawtul Islam
25th June 2008, 09:17 PM
You are soo silly.

Yemen is one of America's main allies in the war against islam, so revolt in Yemen especially since U.S has been keeping Ali Abdullah Saalih in power for nearly 30yrs, would not be something that America would want, so ameirca lying about Iran funding them is another conspiracy theory of yours.


What?????


Let me see if I got this right... you are saying that America would not lie about Iran helping the Zaydis because the Government of Yemen is their puppet??!!!


You're not making any sense.




And FYI i did not get that info of Al-Hoothi's meeting in 2004 from western media as this is known. al-hoothi is a famous guy.

So are Zawahiri and Zarqawi.

In any case Im not saying it didn't happen, Im saying we dont know for sure and it doesn't prove anything even if it did happen.




Iran would not want to put in power Zaydi's as they believe Zaydi's to be disbelievers for not making takfir of Abu Bakr and 'Umar.

So then why are you saying bad things about Zaydis??


And like i said Al-Hoothi and his group would never had enough money or the courage to revolt against the gov.

You mean Iran gave them courage??? So you mean to say that Zaydis have no courage by the Rafidhah do???


It would have been suicide as (1) no sunni's would have supported them,

How do you know?


(2) the Jihadi's would have killed them and taken power for themselves, (3) the gov would have and did crush them.

If you believe in Allah you would not think that way.



Thinking that a powerful country like Iran was behind them would be the only reason for them ever thinking that shia could rule a sunni country.

It wasnt america as Yemen is a main allie of america so who would do it and who would have a motive for giving them the weapons and finance? IRAN IRAN IRAN.

You say Iran hates Zaydis but then say Iran wants them to rule??


Nothing you said makes any sense.

Sawtul Islam
25th June 2008, 09:18 PM
lol, you have to be joking. Can you show us the souce?


I already told you, the 9/11 commision report and wikipedia when you type in Zawahiri.

Sawtul Islam
25th June 2008, 09:26 PM
Let me give another example.

Iran helps Hamas and Hamas members are Sunni.

So by your logic one would have to say that not only Hamas but all Sunnis are "deviants"!!

As I said I dont know all that much about Yemen and Zaydis but what you said is just nonsense.


.

Abu Ma'mar
25th June 2008, 09:39 PM
What i say doesn't make sense to you because you a person lacking anything resembling sense.

From my first post i told you they were rafidha and not Zaydi's and iran helped those rafidha with weapons.

They would not have had the weapons from america as the gov is their allie. They got the weapons and finance from iran to revolt.




As I said I dont know all that much about Yemen and Zaydis but what you said is just nonsense.

Then you shouldnt talk about anything you dont know about.

Next time you want to go to yemen contact me and i will show you a few 'Zaydi' Temples then tell me what religion they are.

Im not going to carry on with this.

melo061
25th June 2008, 09:41 PM
Zaydis are mutazli in their aqeedah IIRC.

Sawtul Islam
25th June 2008, 09:44 PM
What i say doesn't make sense to you because you a person lacking anything resembling sense.

From my first post i told you they were rafidha and not Zaydi's and iran helped those rafidha with weapons.

They would not have had the weapons from america as the gov is their allie. They got the weapons and finance from iran to revolt.
.

So you mean if America didn't help them, then Iran must have???

So if a group does Jihad they are either armed by Iran or the USA?? Is that what you are saying?


Then what about the Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Chechnya and elsewhere, who is arming them? America and Iran???

Abu Ma'mar
25th June 2008, 09:49 PM
Then what about the Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, Chechnya and elsewhere, who is arming them? America and Iran???

Muslims support Muslims.

Rafidha support Rafidha.

Nu7
26th June 2008, 01:24 AM
So there are Rafidha in Yemen?? I always thought Yemeni shi'ies were Zaydi?

alijan1001
26th June 2008, 11:21 AM
Muslims support Muslims.

Rafidha support Rafidha.

TERRIFYING BELIEFS OF SHI'ITES

1.

Allaah often lies and does mistakes. (usool-e-kaafi, page #328, yaqoob kulaini, vol1).
2.

The Munafiqeen (i.e. Sahaba) took very much out of Quran (took out the verses). (Ihtijaj-e-tibri, page #382).
3.

When Imaam Mehdi comes he will bring with him the real and original Quran. (Ahsan-ul-maqaal, page #336, safdar Husain najfi).
4.

The person who says that the present Quran is complete is a liar because the “complete Quran” was compiled by Hazrat Ali. (Fasl-ul-khitaab fee tahreef kitaab rab-ul- arbab, page #4, Noori Tibri).
5.

Abu Bakr is kafir and the one who loves Abu Bakr is also kafir. (Faq-ul-yaqeen, page #690, Baqar majlisi).
6.

Abu Bakr was kafir and Zandeeq. (Kashf-ul-asrar, page #69, khamini).
7.

There is no difference in Abu Bakr and mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani. (Jagir fidk, page #690, Ghulam Husain najfi).
8.

Neither we believe the Allah nor the Prophet of the God whose khalifah is Abu Bakr. (Anwar-ul-nomania, page #278).
9.

I don’t believe in that Allah who gives government to Usman and Ma’avia. (Kashf-ul-asrar, page #107, Khamini).
10.

Umar was a real kafir and Zandeeq. (Kashf-ul-asrar, Khaminee, page #119).
11.

When imam Mehdi comes he will make alive Hazrat Aa'ishah from death and whip her. (Tafseer saafi, line 16, page #108).
12.

Abu Bakr and Umar were agents of Iblees. (Hulyat-ul-mateen, mulla baqar majlisi).
13.

Hazrat Khalid bin Walid was not saif-ullah but saif-us-shaitaan. (Manazir-o-baghdad, page #100).
14.

All the Prophets will become alive from dead and start the jihad under the leadership of Hazrat Ali. (Tafseer ayyashee, page #181).
15.

Real Quran that is compiled by Hazrat Ali will come with imam Mehdi. (Anwar-ul-nomania, page #360).
16.

All Prophets are beggar at the doorstep of Ali. (khalqat-e-norania, page #201, Talib Husain karpalwi).
17.

All the prophets and Angels are the slaves of the 12 imams except Mohammad (saw). (kaleed manaazra, page #35, barkat ali).
18.

12 imams are the teachers of all Prophets except Mohammad (saw). (Majmoa-e-majalis, page #29).
19.

When imam Mehdi comes he will hang Hazrat Abu Bakr and Umar at the holy grave of Hazrat Mohammad (saw). (Majma-ul-ma’arif, page #49).
20.

If Gabriel and Mekael had loved Abu Bakr then they would have been in hell too. (Ameer mukhtar, page #8, mirza basharat Husain).
21.

After the death of Hazrat Mohammad (saw) all the Sahaba become MURTAD except three. (Roza-e-kafee, page #245)
22.

Hazrat Anas Bin Malik, Abu huraira, Amr bin Aas, Ameer Ma’avia and Aa'ishah were worst people of all times. (Makalmaat-e-husainia, page #59).
23.

Man can have Nikah (marriage) with man and his mother, sister and daughter too. (Firqa-ul-shiat, Abi Mohammad-ul-Hasan Bin Moosa).
24.

Hazrat Abu Bakr was Mushrik, Umar was Munafiq and Usman was Kafir. (Shia’an-e-ali aur inn kee shaan, page #54, ghulam husain najfi).
25.

When imam Mehdi come he will be nude and the first person who Bay’ah him is Mohammad (saw). (Haq-ul-yaqeen, page #347, Baqar majlisi).
26.

Hadhrat Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) was the leader of the Munafiqeen (hypocrites).
27.

Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) had prayed for the murder of Hadhrat Umar (Radiallahu Anhu).
28.

The day on which Hadhrat Umar (Radiallahu Anhu), was murdered by the Persian kafir, Lu'lu', is the most auspicious day of the year.
29.

Aa'ishah and Hafsah martyred Rasulullah by giving him poison. (Hayat-ul-quloob, page #870, Baqar Majlisi).
30.

Thus these two male munafiqs (referring to Abu Bakr and Umar) and those two female munafiqs (referring to Aa'ishah and Hafsah) agreed to martyr Rasulullah by administering poison to him. (Hayat-ul-quloob, page #745, Baqar Majlisi)

Ibn malik
26th June 2008, 09:59 PM
How anyone in their right mind can say the Zaydis are almost like the Sunnis, is beyond me...
OK, admitted that they are not Kuffar and extreme like al-Rafidha, they are, nonetheless, major devients.

-They reject all of Allah's names and attributes.
-They believe the Muslim sinner is not in fact a muslim, rather he is in a station between Islam and Kufr, and even this is only in the Dunya and in the hereafter they are Kuffar.
-They beleive in Jabr, i.e. that Allah controls us in every aspect and there in no free will.
-Oh and they are Mu'tazili... Which even for an Ashari would be too much to stomach.

Sawtul Islam
26th June 2008, 11:33 PM
So there are Rafidha in Yemen?? I always thought Yemeni shi'ies were Zaydi?

I think he means that Zaydis are also Rafidha...!

How anyone in their right mind can say the Zaydis are almost like the Sunnis, is beyond me...
OK, admitted that they are not Kuffar and extreme like al-Rafidha, they are, nonetheless, major devients.

-They reject all of Allah's names and attributes.
-They believe the Muslim sinner is not in fact a muslim, rather he is in a station between Islam and Kufr, and even this is only in the Dunya and in the hereafter they are Kuffar.
-They beleive in Jabr, i.e. that Allah controls us in every aspect and there in no free will.
-Oh and they are Mu'tazili... Which even for an Ashari would be too much to stomach.

A lot of Sunnis have the same or similar beliefs. The Mu'tazilah actually count as Sunnis dont they? I dont mean that they are the true followers of Sunnah but overall they count as Sunnis.

The Zaydis have almost nothing in common with 12 Imamis and Ismailis so I think it's best not to put them in the same basket, so rather than saying Shiah and Sunni it may be best to say Rafidhi and Muslim.