Gheebah and the Difference Between it and Jarh Wa Ta’deel

[Anikaa]

Shaykh Sultaan al-`Eed

http://www.madeenah.com/article.cfm?id=1135 (scroll down to find audio, either way it should automtically play)

Excerpts from the tape:

“Indeed the tongue is from Allaahs greatest bounties, an extraordinary creation that is small in size but massive in terms of its role in the obedience or disobedience of Allaah.”

“There is no salvation from the harms of the tongue except by acting upon the advice of the Messenger of Allaah...”

“Wuhayb ibnul Ward said: ‘By Allaah! abstaining from committing Gheebah is more beloved to me than giving out a whole mountain of gold in charity.’

“‘Amr ibnul ‘Aass said: ‘If a man were to eat from this dead mule untill he filled his stomach, it would be better for him than eating the flesh of a Muslim.”

“The salaf used to consider abstaining from committing Gheebah to be from the best of deeds...“

“‘Abullaah ibn Mubaark used to say: ‘If I were to backbite anyone, I would backbite my parents, because they are the most deserving of people to receive my good deeds.’

“If news reached al-Hassan al-Basree that someone had backbitten him, he would send a messenger to the backbiter with a gift and the message: ‘It has reached me my brother that you have backbitten me...”

[Abdullah Ali al Hanafi]

Shaykh Sultaan al-`Eed

http://www.madeenah.com/article.cfm?id=1135 (scroll down to find audio, either way it should automtically play)

Excerpts from the tape:

“Indeed the tongue is from Allaahs greatest bounties, an extraordinary creation that is small in size but massive in terms of its role in the obedience or disobedience of Allaah.”

“There is no salvation from the harms of the tongue except by acting upon the advice of the Messenger of Allaah...”

“Wuhayb ibnul Ward said: ‘By Allaah! abstaining from committing Gheebah is more beloved to me than giving out a whole mountain of gold in charity.’

“‘Amr ibnul ‘Aass said: ‘If a man were to eat from this dead mule untill he filled his stomach, it would be better for him than eating the flesh of a Muslim.”

“The salaf used to consider abstaining from committing Gheebah to be from the best of deeds...“

“‘Abullaah ibn Mubaark used to say: ‘If I were to backbite anyone, I would backbite my parents, because they are the most deserving of people to receive my good deeds.’

“If news reached al-Hassan al-Basree that someone had backbitten him, he would send a messenger to the backbiter with a gift and the message: ‘It has reached me my brother that you have backbitten me...”

madkhalis are mutated hyenas when it comes to eating flesh of their brothers

[Allah Diya]

Gheebah is backbiting, talking about someone behind their back. Jarh wa Tadeel is criticism of someones errors which he makes public. Thus there is a HUGE difference.

[justabro]

Gheebah is backbiting, talking about someone behind their back. Jarh wa Tadeel is criticism of someones errors which he makes public. Thus there is a HUGE difference.

Rabee is wrong, and will be held accountable for his distortions and lies about Syed Qutb and so many others

[Allah Diya]

Rabee is wrong, and will be held accountable for his distortions and lies about Syed Qutb and so many others

Syed Qutb was a very misguided person. He invented his own Islam with utter disregard for the understanding of Islam, both aqeeda and manhaj, of the Salafus Salih (Radhi Allahu anhum). Shaykh Rabee is the foremost scholar who has refuted the deviations of Syed Qutb. I haven't read anything to date which can defend Qutb in light of Shaykh Rabee's (hafizahullah) earth-shattering work.

[Abuz Zubair]

Have you read any of his so-called 'earth-shattering works' against Qutb?

[Um Ismail]

those on the forum who themselves use foul language, injustice, etc at the slightest disagreement should not point fingers at shaykh rabee or anyone else for that matter unless they take a good look at themselves first and clean their own backyard

[justabro]

Syed Qutb was a very misguided person. He invented his own Islam with utter disregard for the understanding of Islam, both aqeeda and manhaj, of the Salafus Salih (Radhi Allahu anhum).
*yawn*

Shaykh Rabee is the foremost scholar who has refuted the deviations of Syed Qutb.
Actually, others before and after him have written much better and more just critiques of his mistakes

I haven't read anything to date which can defend Qutb in light of Shaykh Rabee's (hafizahullah) earth-shattering work.
*yawn*

have you actually read anything by Syed Qutb? have you actually read any of the much fairer works written by other than this Rabee al-Madkhali chap assessing Syed's mistakes (rahimahullah)?

[Anikaa]

Allaahu'l musta'aan.

For the sake of Allaah, get off my thread if you're gonna be speaking ill of 'ulemaa! Some people take any chance to commit haram...wAllaahi it's a shame to see our ummah like this. No wonder why us muslims are disgraced in the world nowadays. Allaah will never grant us honour, if we continue like this.

As Ibn kathir once said: Whoever desires aziz in this life and the hereafter, then let him hold tightly in the obedience of Allah subhanaa wa ta'aala...because Allaah owns the dunya.

O Allaah, owner of sovereignty, give this mulk from whoever u wish and u rip it away from whoever u wish!

[justabro]

Allaahu'l musta'aan.

For the sake of Allaah, get off my thread if you're gonna be speaking ill of 'ulemaa!

I think you should reserve advice like that for your Sh. Rabee, what with all his nasty attacks on countless Salafi scholars, not to mention his followers.

Bakr Abu Zayd refutes Rabee on Syed Qutb:


The respected brother, Shaikh Rabee bin Hadee Al-Madkhali,

Assalamu Alaikum wa ramhatullahi wa barakatuh…

I draw your attention to your request from me to read the book attached: “Adwa’ Islamyyah ‘Ala ‘Aqeedat Sayyed Qutb Wa Fiqrih.” (Islamic lights on the Aqeedah & Ideas of Sayyed Qutub)… Are there any notes against it? And whether these notes mean that this project should be disregarded and never be narrated again? Or Is it considered from which that can be edited and qualified to be printed and distributed to serve as a reward for you in the day of Judgment, and as a guidance to those whom Allah wills from his servants. Thus I say the following:

1- I looked into the first page where the index of topics are listed, and I found topics against Sayyed Qutb, may Allah have mercy on him, that collects the basics of kufr, atheism, heresy, belief in Wahdat Al-Wujood [1], the saying that the Quran is created, the saying that it is permissible for other than Allah to legislate, the exaggeration in glorifying the attributes of Allah, not accepting the Mutawatir Ahadeeth, doubts in matters of Aqeedah that one must be certain about it, making takfeer on communities …etc from such topics that makes the believer’s hair stand on end. I felt sorry for the Muslim scholars around the world who did not pay attention to such destructive matters. Then I wondered why with such destructive matters, we find the spread of the books of Qutb on the horizon like the spread of the sun, the common people benefit from them, and even you (Rabee Al-Madkhali) in some of your writings. Therefore, I started comparing the topics with the contents. I found that the contents prove the opposite of other contents; and these topics, in general, are some provocative topics to withdraw the attention of the regular reader to bash Sayyed (Qutb), may Allah have mercy on him. I hate for you, me and all of the Muslims (to fall into) the zones of sin…It is from deception when a person talks about the good in front of whom he hates.

2- I looked, and found that this book lacks: the basis of the scholarly research, the Manhaj of criticism, the trust of quoting (from others sources), the trust of knowledge, (and) not transgressing on others.

Regarding the etiquette of dialogue, the goodness of the approach, and the strength of introducing the material, then the above have nothing to do with this book by any mean… the proofs are:

First, I saw that you depended in quoting old editions of the books of Sayyed Qutb, like the books: Fee Thilaal Al-Qur’an, Al’Adalah Al Ejtima’eyyah, while knowing, as in the margin of page 29 and other (places), that there are some revised editions that came afterwards. It is obligatory according to the basics of criticism and the trust of knowledge to criticize - if it was about the contents of the last edition of any book because the changes in it (i.e. the last edition) abrogates the previous ones. This thing, inshallah, is not hidden from your basic information, but it is probably a mistake of a student who prepared this information for you who was not aware of that. It is well known that there are many similar situations for the people of knowledge, for example the book, Al Rooh, of Ibn Qayyim, when many scholars looked into it they said: it is probably issued during his early life. This also happened in many cases. The book (of Sayyed Qutb) Al’Adalah Al Ejtima’yah was the first (book) that he (Sayyed Qutb) authored about Islamic issues.

Second, the topic in the index of this book: Sayyid Qutb allows other than Allah to legislate, made my hair stand on end. I rushed to this topic before anything else. What I found out is just a single quote from lots of lines in his book, Al’Adalah AlEjtima’yah. His sayings do not confirm this provocative topic. Let us suppose that there is a general or vague sentence, why do we turn it into a takfeeri (blasphemy) matter against him to destroy what Sayyed Qutb based his life upon and what he dedicated his pen for: the da’wah towards the monotheism of Allah “in ruling and legislating,” rejecting the man made laws, and confronting those who committed that (legislating and ruling by other than Allah’s rule). Allah loves justices and fairness in every thing; and I do not see inshaallah except that you are about to go back to justice and fairness.

Third: One of the provocative topics is your topic: Sayyed Qutb believes in Wahdat Al-Wujood. Verily, Sayyed Qutb, may Allah have mercy on him, said something not clear (that might make the reader think that he believes in Wahdat Al-Wujood) using the style (of literature) in commenting on Surat Al-Hadeed, and Surat Al-Ekhlaas, and based upon it the accusation that he believes in Wahdat Al-Wujood was made. You did something good when you quoted his saying in commenting on Surat Al-Baqarah, and his (Sayyed Qutb) clear rejection to the idea of Wahdat Al-Wujood. From these quotes (Sayyed Qutb wrote): “and from here we find that there is nothing in the true Islamic ideology called the idea of Wahdat Al-Wujood.” To add, in his (Qutb) book: "Muqawwimat At-Tasawwur Al-Islami” there is a clear response to those who belief in Wahdat Al-Wujood. Therefore, we say may Allah forgive Sayyid Qutb for these vague statements that he expanded upon using his literal style; and what is vague does not overcome the clear cut statements from his saying.
Thus, I wish that you rush into deleting this hidden takfeer of Sayyed Qutb, and I feel sorry for you.

Fourth, I say clearly to you with all respect, that under these topics: the contrary of what Sayyed Qutb commented on the meaning of La Ilaha Illah Allah, to the scholars and the people of language; and that he (Qutb) is not clear about (tawheed) Ar-Ruboobiyah and Al-Uloohiyyah. I say to you, my beloved, that you have destroyed, without making sure, all of what Sayyed (Qutb), may Allah have mercy on him, confirmed from the aspects of Tawheed and what it necessates and confirms, which occupied the major aspect of the long life of Sayyed Qutb. All what you (Rabee Al-Madkhali) said is nullified by one word: that the monotheism of Allah in legislation and ruling is from the necessities of the word of Tawheed. Sayyed, May Allah have mercy on him, emphasized on this a lot when he saw the corrupted courage to dismantle the legislations of Allah from courts and other places, and replacing it with man-made laws. Without a doubt, this is a great courage (the courage of changing the rules of Allah) that the Ummah never experienced before 1342 Hijri.

Fifth: from the topics of the index: “Sayyed Qutb confirms the belief that the Quran is created, and that the speech of Allah is just the will”… When I went back to the pages that talk about that, I did not find a single letter where Sayyed Qutub, may Allah have mercy on him, declared this saying: “The Quran is created.” How do you easily accuse with these takfeeri matters? The only sentence that I noticed is his (Qutb) saying: “They cannot author from it—the Muqat’ah letters—a book similar to this book because this book is created by Allah and not by the humans”… There is no doubt that this sentence is wrong, but does this sentence make us rule that Sayyed Qutb confirms the kuffri saying that the Quran is created? O Allah I cannot tolerate the burden of this! This reminded me of a similar saying of Shaikh Muhammad ‘Abdulkhaliq ‘Atheemah, may Allah have mercy on him, in his book’s introduction: Studies on the style of the Noble Quran, that is printed by the Islamic University of Imam Muhammed bin Sa’ud. Do we accuse all people by the saying that the Quran is created. O Allah No.

What we mentioned so far is sufficient in talking about the subjective perspectives, and this is the important matter.

Talking about other perspectives:

1- The original copy of this book lies in 161 pages written by hand. These writings are different. I do not know of a single page written by you as usual, unless your handwriting differed from usual, or I missed up something, or you gave the job about Sayyed Qutb to some of the students, and each student wrote what he found under your supervision, or by your dictation. Therefore, I cannot confirm that this book belongs to you except by what you wrote on it that it is authored by you, and that is enough in considering it to belong to you.

2- Even though there are differences in the handwritings, there is a common trend; This book has the common trend of the disturbing manner, the continuous anger, the same jump on the sentence to generate huge mistakes, rushing into conclusions where there is a possibility to prove otherwise, and depending on the vague sentences and leaving the clear ones, which is a solid rule that do not accept any argument about it….This is considered as betraying (violating) the Manhaj of criticism (named): Al’Haydah Al’Elmiyah.

3- Regarding the style of literature, if we were to compare it with the style of Sayyed Qutb, then this style is of descending style. The style of Sayyed (Qutb) is high. If we considered it as your (Rabee’s) style, then it is very elementary, and does not suit a student of knowledge who has great degrees. So there should be a balance between the literal taste, the ability of using the language and clearly presenting the matter, and the beauty of presenting; or otherwise the pen should be broken ( i.e. otherwise do not bother writing it).

4- The common trend was the trend of anger and frightening which overtook the scientific Manhaj of criticism, thus your response lacked the etiquettes of dialogue.

5- This book from its beginning tells the end has an offensive trend and narrowness in mind and lack of patience in the sentences… why?

6- This book creates a new hizbiyah that establishes the trend of making tahreem here, and nullifying it there; and to call this a bid’ah and that person a Mubtadi’, to call this deviancy and that person a devient… whithout enough proofs. This also generates ghuroor (i.e. deception) of being religious, being proud to the extent that when one of them does that he (thinks that he) gets rid of a huge burden from his back; and that he is saving the Ummah from falling from an edge; that he is considered of a high example of Wara’ (fearing Allah) and gheerah (jealousy) on the rulings of Shari’ah. This (Judging) without making sure, is a way of destruction, even if it is considered as a high constructed building, its destiny is destruction and disappearance with the winds.

These are six aspects that this book enjoys, which made it not enjoyable. This is what I see regarding what you requested. I apologize for being late to respond to you, but I used not to read the books of this man (Sayyed Qutb), even though it is popular amongst the people. However, the dangerous remarks that you talked about made me do lots of readings into his books, and I found in his books many good things, a great faith, clear truth, exposing the plans of the enemies of Islam, and some mistakes in the contents and saying some things that I wish he never said. He nullifies lots of these things in other places, and to be perfect is hard. This man was a great writer and a great criticizer, and then he moved towards serving Islam through the great Quran, the noble Sunnah, and the beautiful Seerah. This shaped his attitude regarding the issues of his time. He insisted on his attitude (to continue what he is doing) for the sake of Allah. He also clarified the issues about his past. It was requested from him to write some words of apology, and he said his faithful and famous word, that "I will not use the finger which I raise for shahad’ah (i.e calling to Tawheed) to write something against Tawheed…" or a word close to this.
Therefore, the obligation of everyone is to make du’a for him that Allah forgive his sins, to benefit from his knowledge, to clarify his mistakes, and that his mistakes do not make us not benefit from his knowledge, or to abandon his books. Consider, may Allah protect you, his situation like the situation of those of the salaf like Isma’eel Al-Harawi and Al-Jilaani, and how Shaikh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah defended them, even though they fell into many awful mistakes, because the basis of their approach was to defend Islam and the Sunnah. Look to the (book), “Manazil Alsa’ereen”, and you will find strange things that cannot be accepted; however, you find Ibn Al-Qayyim, may Allah have mercy on him, making excuses for him and not accusing him, as he clarified it in the book “Madarij As-Saalikeen". I also expanded on this matter in the book “Classifying the people between doubts and certainty,” and I put some rules regarding it.

In conclusion, I advise the brother in Allah, not to print this book “Adwa’ Islamiyyah..”. It is not permissible for this book to be distributed or printed because of what it has of the exaggeration, and the training of the youth of the Ummah to slander the Ulama’ (scholars), and to put down and disregard their virtues. Forgive me, may Allah bless you, if I was harsh in my sentences, but it is because of what I saw from your exaggeration, because I want the good for you, and because your eagerness to know what I have about him. This is what my pen wrote, and may Allah correct the way of all of us..

Wa assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi Wa barakatu….


After reading this letter, you should read Sh. Bakr's book, Tasnif al-Nas Bayn al-Zann Wa'l-Yaqin, and you will realize it's a whole book criticizing those who engage in what he has criticized Rabee for in this letter. That's why everybody but Rabee and his followers are able to discern that this book is about them.

[Anikaa]

Why do you assume that i have the same thoughts as shaykh rabee', just becuase i said do NOT speak ill of the 'ulemaa.

I know how qaradwi is with his preaching, yet i do NOT speak ill of him. I warn bro/sis about his beliefs etc, but i don't go around calling him names etc.

Also, i have nothing against syed Qutb. I was told that he's made some mistakes in his tafseer or something, so i stay away from that and again, i do NOT speak ill of him.

All i'm asking is for people to be sensible and wary of their actions. Some people here have the nerve to get on a public forum and speak like anything and then want people to accept their views, etc. This is not the way the Prophet (sal-Allaahu alayhe wassalam) taught us to preach. And my comment wasn't only directed at you akhi, but everyone in general.

Jazaakullaahu khairan.

[justabro]

Why do you assume that i have the same thoughts as shaykh rabee', just becuase i said do NOT speak ill of the 'ulemaa.

I know how qaradwi is with his preaching, yet i do NOT speak ill of him. I warn bro/sis about his beliefs etc, but i don't go around calling him names etc.

Also, i have nothing against syed Qutb. I was told that he's made some mistakes in his tafseer or something, so i stay away from that and again, i do NOT speak ill of him.

All i'm asking is for people to be sensible and wary of their actions. Some people here have the nerve to get on a public forum and speak like anything and then want people to accept their views, etc. This is not the way the Prophet (sal-Allaahu alayhe wassalam) taught us to preach. And my comment wasn't only directed at you akhi, but everyone in general.

Jazaakullaahu khairan.

Sorry about that, I guess I jumped the gun... it's just that the only discussion that was taking place was about Rabee/Syed Qutb, and you were quoting from Madeenah.com, who are followers of Rabee.

I guess if you don't really know much about him, you must be quite new on the scene. In America, his group developed a huge following and then absolutely imploded. The fallout was quite ugly. I know a brother whose wife left him and took the kids because he was "hizbi" and all sorts of rubbish like that. (He declined to take part in declaring some unknown guy in Yemen an innovator just because Rabee declared him an innovator)

If you want an idea of what happened with these people, read the following series (it's quite painful):

http://umarlee.com/2007/01/31/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-salafi-dawah-in-the-us-final/

[Anikaa]

No worries akhi.

Madeenah.com is a very nice site, esp the words of wisdom part...also, if you click on the link i posted, you'd realise the lecture isn't actually by shaykh rabee'..so i don't know how that came up.

I have heard all negative comments about him, especially from this forum. Care to share anything positive? He's human at the end of day, and yeh he makes mistakes. Also, i think shaykh aali shaykh [grand mufti of saudi] who made a talk about the madhkalee group or something and he talked about how it doesn't exist. Has anyone else heard this?

Btw, have any ulemaa refuted his statements?

Jazaakullaahu khair.

[rasheed gonzales]

Madeenah.com is a very nice site, esp the words of wisdom part...also, if you click on the link i posted, you'd realise the lecture isn't actually by shaykh rabee'..so i don't know how that came up.
Some of these guys are wound up so tightly with hate for Shaikh Rabi' that any whiff they get of something they think might be evidence of your "Madkhalism", they'll jump and attack as if you're one of the shaikh's mini-mes or something.

[ummafnaan]

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

I do not encourage the insulting of the Shuyookh in public. Even those I disagree with. But wallahi, wallahi, wallahi, Sheikh Rabi' is a shaytaan. This is a man who has caused so much division within the ranks of the muslim. It is unbelievable. I do not live in the UK or US. I live in Nigeria. But wallahi his fitnah has ven reached all the way down here. He has caused wives to totally disobey and belittle their husbands because 'Sheikh Rabi' says they are Hizbees/Qutubees/Surooris/Jihadis/Ikhwanis', you name it. So many brothers have abandoned their fellow brothers in islam because 'Sheikh Rabi'' warned against them. Sisters do not talk to each other, because Shaykh Rabi' says we shud boycott hizbees.
I was in the UK for 5 years doing my Bachelors and I would hear brothers and sisters that were new converts to the deen who do not even know Alif, baa, taa, publicly insulting great shuyukh of our time. Why? Because Shaykh Rabi' or his poodle Abu Khadija said it was their duty to do so. These shuyukh were probably hufaadh of Qur'an before these idiots were in diapers. Yet the first lesson you learn in Madkhali islam is 'how to refute the deviants'.
All sorts of unislamic nonsense. By Allah only the Shaytan would cause such divisions b/w muslims. Is this Islam? No it is not. And anyone knows it is not about how much knowledge you have but how you implement it. Is this what Rasul (saw) taught us? By Allah it is the duty of every muslim to warn against the likes of Rabi'. What utter BS.

[Um Ismail]

I think you should reserve advice like that for your Sh. Rabee, what with all his nasty attacks on countless Salafi scholars, not to mention his followers.

Shame on you brother. Shame on you a thousand times. As if the advice was only for one person to follow. If you committed a haram act, and someone else did the same, then someone came to advise you, will you say "save that advice for that other person"??? Shame on you again. Islam is for you, me, shaykh Rabee, and every Muslim to follow. It shows ones' sincerity when even a sincere advice can not be taken as just that, yes, you are in no need of it, it seems you think so at least.

News for you brother: On Yawmul Qiyamah, Shaykh Rabee will answer for himself and so will you. What utter arrogance you displayed with your comment. Yes you will lash out at me for publicly criticising you, but you should be worried about yourself more than lashing out at others. Shame on you and those like you, who are quick to look for excuses for your chosen people, but anyone else makes a mistake and they don't get the same treatment from you. All of a sudden you know their hearts and motives. Shame on you and those like you.

Sister Anikaa, while all praise is due to Allah Alone, I have to say you are one the very few people on this forum who has some sense and who knows her place. People like YOU are people whom I'd trust with my deen, not these laymen who don't know their place. EVERY TOPIC almost similar to this ends up with someone bringing up shaykh Rabee, may Allah preserve him and pardon his mistakes, and literally backbiting and they can't even see they are doing so. And watch everyone start attacking me because of the dua even, that I made for him.

Now I expect a lot of uproar about my comment so go ahead, all of you who have nothing better to do and worry about everyone else but your ownselves, while Allah said to save YOURSELVES and your families from the Fire....

Go ahead now and give your hasanat to all those whom you oppose, hate and belittle. Please make sure though, for your own good, whatever you do it is for the sake of Allah. That includes talking about shaykh Rabee and all those whom you so obviously hate and despise, although they are your brothers in deen.

[Yasir]

those on the forum who themselves use foul language, injustice, etc at the slightest disagreement should not point fingers at shaykh rabee or anyone else for that matter unless they take a good look at themselves first and clean their own backyardGiven that al-Madkhali is guilty of the same and possesses an unclean ‘backyard’, surely he too is in no position to point fingers at anyone?Some of these guys are wound up so tightly with hate for Shaikh Rabi' that any whiff they get of something they think might be evidence of your "Madkhalism", they'll jump and attack as if you're one of the shaikh's mini-mes or something.At least you acknowledge the existence of the “mini-mes”. I guess that is something.Shame on you brother. Shame on you a thousand times. I take it this is your display of advice to your brother and genuine concern that he may have erred?

[justabro]

Shame on you brother. Shame on you a thousand times. As if the advice was only for one person to follow. If you committed a haram act, and someone else did the same, then someone came to advise you, will you say "save that advice for that other person"???
What haram action have i done here?


What utter arrogance you displayed with your comment. Yes you will lash out at me for publicly criticising you, but you should be worried about yourself more than lashing out at others. Shame on you and those like you, who are quick to look for excuses for your chosen people, but anyone else makes a mistake and they don't get the same treatment from you. All of a sudden you know their hearts and motives.

I have read enough of his refutations to conclude, with certainty, his deceit is deliberate and calculated. So yes, his words reveal some of that.


Go ahead now and give your hasanat to all those whom you oppose, hate and belittle. Please make sure though, for your own good, whatever you do it is for the sake of Allah. That includes talking about shaykh Rabee and all those whom you so obviously hate and despise, although they are your brothers in deen.
I am ready to stand as his disputant on Yawm al-Qiyamah

[Um Ismail]

Given that al-Madkhali is guilty of the same and possesses an unclean ‘backyard’, surely he too is in no position to point fingers at anyone?

The original advice was NOT directed towards shaykh Rabee. He is not on the forum. If one cannot take an advice just because there are one or A MILLION OTHER PEOPLE comitting the same mistake, than that IS A SHAME. People should stop mentioning shaykh Rabee to call attention away from themselves and their own errors. One should be better then that ESPECIALLY when he criticises others for the VERY SAME THING.

I take it this is your display of advice to your brother and genuine concern that he may have erred?

You are correct. This is not the first, second nor the third time such arrogance is being displayed on the forum. Nicer words have been said before by ME AND OTHERS but they don't get through thick skulls. I doubt that this will, but I thought I try. Sue me.

[Um Ismail]

justabro;122769]What haram action have i done here?

I am excercising strength right now not to call you a bad name. I GAVE AN EXAMPLE, IT WAS AN EXAMPLE AND YOU KNOW IT.




I have read enough of his refutations to conclude, with certainty, his deceit is deliberate and calculated. So yes, his words reveal some of that.

Focus on the thread and make dua for the sister that Allah rewards her instead of calling attention away from the topic of the thread to belittle and backbite people with the same story that has been repeated over and over again like a broken record. And for the sake of Allah stop assuming things about people just because they say a word or two that remind ONLY YOU AND THOSE LIKE YOU for some reason of shaykh Rabee and his mistakes but not of your own or anyone elses. Ok, so he will have his "deceit" (if it is with him only Allah knows) to answer for, and you? What will you have to answer for? FOCUS ON THAT, your own house is NOT clean.



I am ready to stand as his disputant on Yawm al-Qiyamah

Good for you then. BUT DON"T MAKE IT YOUR SOLE PRIORITY. You have enough of your OWN MESS to worry about. YOU ME AND EVERYONE ELSE HERE.

Now thank the sister for the wonderful reminder she gave with this thread and go to one of the "let's have fun talking about rabee" threads and enjoy it all you want. ESPECIALLY since the sister asked for this FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH, that those who wish to talk ill of the ulemaa leave her thread. So do it for the sake of Allah, not for shaykh Rabee me or the sister. I believe this is a thing to do from Islam when asked for someting by the name of Allah.

[aboo ahmad]

those on the forum who themselves use foul language, injustice, etc at the slightest disagreement should not point fingers at shaykh rabee or anyone else for that matter unless they take a good look at themselves first and clean their own backyardI apologise to the whole IA team but I really do not like the sarcasm on this forum sometimes when a simple hadith or fatwa from a notable scholar can pass the same message. This sacarsm and sometimes very nasty remarks make me want to leave the forum sometimes and I have only been here a very short time. Wallaahu ta'ala alam

[Um Ismail]

I apologise to the whole IA team but I really do not like the sarcasm on this forum sometimes when a simple hadith or fatwa from a notable scholar can pass the same message. This sacarsm and sometimes very nasty remarks make me want to leave the forum sometimes and I have only been here a very short time. Wallaahu ta'ala alam

I feel the same way, yet I HAVE NO SARCASM WITH ME, I am extremely angry due to the fact that I personally have tried to be nice and advise in a nice manner many times before, but nowadays people are easil offended by an advice that would most likely benefit them if they only listen.

Sorry that I don't quote fatawa much to prove a point, I believe what was said is common knowledge in Islam. Yet I should know better, if people don't accept fatawa, nay, rather ridicule and belittle them unless they serve their interests, why would anyone listen to me. At least I will know that I defended a scholar and wished for my brother what I wish for myself. Even if I got angry with him/her at times.

I find myself disappointed when I see a nice title of a thread, I find myself thinking "let me read this it looks beneficial", but then I read it and it is followed up by something way off the topic and the same old story repeated to many times, which doesn't benefit anyone. So I find myself wanting to leave this forum as well.

And brother I PERSONALLY apologize to YOU and do not want to be the reason for you to leave the forum, especially if you benefit from it. So I hope you can accept my apologies and forgive any injustice or inconvenience I may have caused you. I guess I just had enough of all the arrogance displayed here repeatedly.

[Um Ismail]

And before anyone "gets it twisted", I would and have given the same advice to those with "Abu Khadija" tendencies, who talk ill of Sayyid Qutb, shaykh Al Munajjid etc. That's just to clarify before all the lashing out that is surely to come.

[Abuz Zubair]

Those who are new to the da'wah scene and don't know much about Rabi' or others should stay silent and learn before they lash out on others. Those who are critical of Rabi here are more experienced and well versed in Madkhalism than the newcomers who believe everyone is innocent. The key thing to remember is: If you do not know, stay silent or ask politely. It is a typically Salafi tendency to lash out first and ask later.

Most of the newcomers who blindly and very innocently defend someone like Rabi only do so simply because they haven't read any of his writings. If Rabi' was a member here, he would definitely have received -1000 reputations. This is how much of an conceited oppressor he is.

Madina website and other such Madkhali websites are cultists and it is incumbent to speak out against them lest people fall for them. I used to have softer approach towards them about 9-8 years ago but I was bitten several times. Since then on I learnt to take the right approach. If you are inexperienced, it is very easy to question than to attack.

[justabro]

I am excercising strength right now not to call you a bad name. I GAVE AN EXAMPLE, IT WAS AN EXAMPLE AND YOU KNOW IT.
Firstly, I apologize for coming off rude.




Focus on the thread and make dua for the sister that Allah rewards her instead of calling attention away from the topic of the thread to belittle and backbite people with the same story that has been repeated over and over again like a broken record. And for the sake of Allah stop assuming things about people just because they say a word or two that remind ONLY YOU AND THOSE LIKE YOU for some reason of shaykh Rabee and his mistakes but not of your own or anyone elses.
I did apologize to the sister for jumping the gun on her. It reminded ME AND THOSE LIKE ME of Rabee because Madeenah.com is put on by his supporters. There's not much mystery there, but I can understand that someone unfamiliar with this might find it strange.

Ok, so he will have his "deceit" (if it is with him only Allah knows) to answer for, and you? What will you have to answer for? FOCUS ON THAT, your own house is NOT clean.
I guess you may be unaware of this, but his deceit has damaged the whole of the "Salafi Da'wah" in the west, and having at one time, in my ignorance, having been duped into following him, I now regret it and this is my way of making amends.





Good for you then. BUT DON"T MAKE IT YOUR SOLE PRIORITY. You have enough of your OWN MESS to worry about. YOU ME AND EVERYONE ELSE HERE.
It is not my sole priority. I guess you are new here, but Allah Diya, to whom I was responding, has stated that he believes that Islam has now returned to the Hijaz just like the snake returns to its lair (as per the hadith), and for him, this represents Dr. Rabee and his followers and students. I am not putting words into his mouth here, mind you, these are actual things he said. I guess for someone unaware of this, my comments might seem out of place, but in light of this background, I felt that they were right on.

I'm sorry if I ended up hijacking the sister's thread in the process.

Now thank the sister for the wonderful reminder she gave with this thread
May Allah reward the sister for her good intentions,

as for Madeenah.com, it is good that they realized there is a difference between gheebah and jarh wa'l-ta'dil, but quite frankly, I find it hypocritical for them to put out such reminders

and go to one of the "let's have fun talking about rabee" threads and enjoy it all you want.
I don't do it because it's fun (it's not), i feel dutybound because i know alot more about rabee's writings and history than most

ESPECIALLY since the sister asked for this FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH, that those who wish to talk ill of the ulemaa leave her thread. So do it for the sake of Allah, not for shaykh Rabee me or the sister. I believe this is a thing to do from Islam when asked for someting by the name of Allah.
Jazakillahu khayran for the reminder... at that, I will leave this thread alone

[Um Ismail]

I have no interest in asking ANYONE here about shaykh Rabee and his da'wah. I can't say I trust people on this forum with my deen save a very very few.

You should not assume brother Abu Zubair that those who defend him haven't read any of his works and that we have no knowledge of the matter. Warning against someone is one thing, being unjust and doing so with utter arrogance and belittlement is another. Don't (you and others) criticise one person of something (be it shaykh Rabee or anyone else) and then fall into it yourself. It undeniably happens here.

Talking and warning against someone should be done with knowledge and proofs and they have been presented many times. Knowingly changing ALMOST every thread that has NOTHING to do with shaykh Rabee but rather basics of the deen and beautiful reminder and admonition is not warning for the sake of Allah nor is it beneficial at all. Today everyone wants to act like they have enough knowledge to warn and refute, and maybe their "knowledge' would be accepted, just maybe, if they displayed justice and knew how to put things in their proper place. There is a time and a place for everything, yet when a sister starts a thread such as this one which carries a beautiful reminder and then someone comes and mentions shaykh Rabee out of the blue, and even says to the sister "YOUR shaykh Rabee" although they know nothing about the sister stance towards him, that is not a display of knowledge, rather the opposite. I am surprised with you being the admin of this forum for so long that you aren't able to see what's wrong with that. Rather it is the people who seek fitna who tend to lash out at everyone for NO APPARENT reason and justification at all. Reminding someone to fear Allah and busy themselves with that which benefits is far from lashing out. You know very well people have been advised many times, you yourself have done it, for different reasons obviously, yet they continue to lash out. And since your policy for the forum is that everyone can express themselves, don't ask anyone to remain silent simply because they happen to be of those who hold an opinion different to yours. Worse things are discussed here and you take part in such discussions, yet you don't tell them to be silent, so it isn't proper to do so here either.

That said, I will gladly think about how beneficial this forum truly is to myself and will make a decision upon that. Should I choose to leave it, it is nothing to rejoice about since it is only a reflection on you and your policy and not me. So before you yourself call other people by all sorts of bad names, as you so frequently do brother Abu Zubair, think about whether you are truly in a position to ask those like me to be silent on a matter like this one. I say this fully aware of my words even if the whole forum hated me for it. Defending shaykh Rabee does not take precedence over my defending the likes of Sayyid Qutb (who had grave mistakes), and vice versa. So don't assume it is done due to lack of knowledge. If shaykh Rabee was a member here, THAT IS ALL HE WOULD GET-anonymous reps-since NONE of you would be able to even hold a conversation with him. So the point you tried to make brother Abu Zubair holds no weight to me at all, as if was somehow supposed to prove the "knowledge" of the people here against the knowledge of shaykh Rabee. I wonder if any one of YOU has read any of his works OTHER THAN those which deal with refuting.

Anyway, discussing such topics with you is useless I'm afraid, since you are not even able to comprehend what exactly my criticism is directed at.

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

[y-mughal]

Defending shaykh Rabee does not take precedence over my defending the likes of Sayyid Qutb (who had grave mistakes)

Why not any brackets after Rabee with 'who had grave mistakes'? Basically you'm just a Madkhali - end of story.

[hearandobey]

um ismail, chill sis :)

i think it should be known that people WILL post things you won't necessarily like in a thread but that's why it's an open forum. i mean you can't control who comes to your own/anyone's thread?

[Um Ismail]

Firstly, I apologize for coming off rude.

Brother whether it came across that way or not, I only wish well for you as I do for myself. I apologize if I offended you in any way, but I hope you can understand insha'Allah where I was coming from.


I guess you may be unaware of this, but his deceit has damaged the whole of the "Salafi Da'wah" in the west, and having at one time, in my ignorance, having been duped into following him, I now regret it and this is my way of making amends.

I disagree with this strongly. I know many people who have actually benefited from his works and have NOT fallen into what the "Madhkhalis" have fallen into, and I have heard shaykh Rabee numerous times speaking harshly AGAINST hajr hajr hajr especially by common people and between and towards common people. It is not a scholars' fault that people make him out to be infallible due to what they can't comprehend of his words, so as I always have I will refuse to accept that HE is the sole reason for the fitna in the West. I have read his works as well and have NEVER behaved in the way of the "madhkhalis" alhamdulillah. I still believe that if I can take the good and leave the bad from those WORSE then shaykh Rabee, we can do so with him as well, keeping in mind he is not perfect just like no one else is. Yes he is harsh and has his share of mistakes, but subhan'Allah he is a human being nevertheless and I highly doubt that this type of "warning" against him, on a forum such as this one, holds any benefit. Rather if you are able you should write a detailed refutation and publish it, if you think you possess enough knowledge to do so. If we claim that he went overboard in his refutations and what not, why then do we do the same here??? rather if you want to be the better one, refute him according to justice and in a way that is better, leaving all personal ill-feelings aside.



It is not my sole priority. I guess you are new here, but Allah Diya, to whom I was responding, has stated that he believes that Islam has now returned to the Hijaz just like the snake returns to its lair (as per the hadith), and for him, this represents Dr. Rabee and his followers and students. I am not putting words into his mouth here, mind you, these are actual things he said. I guess for someone unaware of this, my comments might seem out of place, but in light of this background, I felt that they were right on.

Allah Diya has said no such thing in THIS thread. As I said there should be a time and place for everything.




May Allah reward the sister for her good intentions,

Allahumma ameen.

as for Madeenah.com, it is good that they realized there is a difference between gheebah and jarh wa'l-ta'dil, but quite frankly, I find it hypocritical for them to put out such reminders

take the good and leave the bad. A person may repent over night by the way without making it publicly and you would never know.


I don't do it because it's fun (it's not), i feel dutybound because i know alot more about rabee's writings and history than most

As I said, write a detailed objective refutation if you are able to do so.


Jazakillahu khayran for the reminder... at that, I will leave this thread alone

wa iyakom

[Um Ismail]

Why not any brackets after Rabee with 'who had grave mistakes'? Basically you'm just a Madkhali - end of story.

Shaykh Rabee WHO MADE GRAVE MISTAKES, may Allah pardon him, and Sayyid Qutb WHO MADE GRAVE MISTAKES, may Allah pardon him. Happy now? Or am I still a Madhkhali you hasty one?

[Um Ismail]

um ismail, chill sis :)

i think it should be known that people WILL post things you won't necessarily like in a thread but that's why it's an open forum. i mean you can't control who comes to your own/anyone's thread?

jazaki Allah khayran sister, but I am fed up. If they can post whatever they wish why are people like me told to be silent? Mind you, there are numerous threads where one can post all this useless rubbish, but no one needs to see rabee this rabee that in almost every thread!!! I actually wanted to benefit from what the sister posted regardless which link she copied and pasted from.

Anyway jazaki Allah khayran and you are right but I just had enough I guess. I got too weak and reacted instead of applying the Sunnah when angry.

[Abuz Zubair]

You should not assume brother Abu Zubair that those who defend him haven't read any of his works and that we have no knowledge of the matter. Warning against someone is one thing, being unjust and doing so with utter arrogance and belittlement is another. Don't (you and others) criticise one person of something (be it shaykh Rabee or anyone else) and then fall into it yourself. It undeniably happens here.

What works of Rabi' al-Madkhali have you read?

What posts of mine have you read where I make unjust attacks others?

Let's see you prove this point.

Talking and warning against someone should be done with knowledge and proofs and they have been presented many times.

Most of the proofs exist in Arabic in Rabi's own writings. The problem with the newcomers is that they do not Arabic and assume the best of everyone. My question is, why don't you do your homework and read his writings yourself, or read what others have to say about this cult leader?

Knowingly changing ALMOST every thread that has NOTHING to do with shaykh Rabee but rather basics of the deen and beautiful reminder and admonition is not warning for the sake of Allah nor is it beneficial at all.

This is bound to happen if you quote from dodgy sources. How else do you expect the people to react? Especially if you quote from cultist websites AND on an issue of Jarh and Ta'deel! Either one must be really ignorant of what he/she is doing (which seems to be the case here) or is 100% down with the cult. This is the impression it gives to an average reader. You shouldn't be surprised then if an average reader reacts the way he does. This is obvious - not to you because you people are very new to this.

Today everyone wants to act like they have enough knowledge to warn and refute, and maybe their "knowledge' would be accepted, just maybe, if they displayed justice and knew how to put things in their proper place.

And what are you doing right now if not refuting? And who was unjust here? You see, this is one place you can take someone to the cleaners for being unjust. But you need to highlight that to him before you starting 'shaming' him, etc.

There is a time and a place for everything, yet when a sister starts a thread such as this one which carries a beautiful reminder and then someone comes and mentions shaykh Rabee out of the blue, and even says to the sister "YOUR shaykh Rabee" although they know nothing about the sister stance towards him, that is not a display of knowledge, rather the opposite.

Ironically, this is always started with Madkhali followers isn't it? I am sure good brothers like justabro don't like to mention the word 'Madkhali' as an alternative Dhikr.

I am surprised with you being the admin of this forum for so long that you aren't able to see what's wrong with that. Rather it is the people who seek fitna who tend to lash out at everyone for NO APPARENT reason and justification at all.

Everyone lashes out on everyone here. What on earth do you think you are doing right here right now?!

Many would point their fingers at you accusing you of being fitna-maker. It is very relative, isn't it?

You know very well people have been advised many times, you yourself have done it, for different reasons obviously, yet they continue to lash out. And since your policy for the forum is that everyone can express themselves, don't ask anyone to remain silent simply because they happen to be of those who hold an opinion different to yours. Worse things are discussed here and you take part in such discussions, yet you don't tell them to be silent, so it isn't proper to do so here either.

This is one of the most obvious things that make me different from the Madkhalis. We believe in convincing people by arguments and not by imposing a Stalinist-like Salafised-military junta. This is why you are allowed to persist in your discussions even though they often get on my nerves. Remember, just as others are annoying to you, you might be annoying to others, too. Our job is to learn to live together despite of these factors because we cannot change each other overnight and become replicas of each other. We are all different.

That said, I will gladly think about how beneficial this forum truly is to myself and will make a decision upon that. Should I choose to leave it, it is nothing to rejoice about since it is only a reflection on you and your policy and not me. So before you yourself call other people by all sorts of bad names, as you so frequently do brother Abu Zubair, think about whether you are truly in a position to ask those like me to be silent on a matter like this one.

People come and people go. No big deal. People love to be here and others hate to be here. Just as you have the freedom to say what you want, you have the freedom to leave. No one is going to cry tears over it.

Again, who did I call bad names here? You think calling someone a Madkhali is calling him bad-names? You think Madkhali is a bad name? (well, perhaps it is!)

If shaykh Rabee was a member here, THAT IS ALL HE WOULD GET-anonymous reps-since NONE of you would be able to even hold a conversation with him

How ignorant of a comment for you to make! Why won't we be able to have conversation with him?! You neither know ANY of us here on the forums, their knowledge, their experiences etc to make such a ridiculous comment and this only highlights the depth of your immaturity. Give us a break!

I wonder if any one of YOU has read any of his works OTHER THAN those which deal with refuting.

Name us a work of his which is NOT about refutation! I can only think of one, and frankly, I do not want to go near it after I heard what Mallibari had to say about it!

For God's sake. Don't be a typical conceited Salafi. You have probably never read Rabi's book (except one manhaj al-anbiya) since you don't know Arabic, but you seem to be very aware of how many works of his aren't just refutations of the people of Sunnah. Basically, you haven't a clue what you're on about like any other new-on-the-scene conceited Salafi.

Amazing to what lengths your ignorance will take you defending a person who said about Sh Ibn Baz that he destroyed the Salafi Da'wah and that Ibn Jibrin has lost his Islam and deen! Shame on you for defending such people! Shame on you!

[Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari]

I apologise to the whole IA team but I really do not like the sarcasm on this forum sometimes when a simple hadith or fatwa from a notable scholar can pass the same message.

I will second that.

[Um Ismail]

I did NOT say you called people bad names in THIS thread. You do it often enough in other threads and you do NOT use, most of the time, sound, objective evidence for your opinions, rather you belittle people (need i remind you of your conversations with Abu Muwahhid-something like that), and you continue to do so on pages and pages of a single thread before you eventually ( although briefly and seldomly) actually even ATTEMPT to explain matters. I would expect from people whom other people look up to to know better, alhamdulillah no one looks up to me thinking I have knowledge so the burden is not as great on me as it is on you brother. Besides, NEVER in my life have I been known or even assumed to be a fitan maker, so if I come across that way I need to check myself and "the company I keep", it tends to rub off after a while.

I do not call myself with any other name except a Muslimah so you have no right to call me any other name either, be it "conceited SALAFI" or otherwise. Scholars against whom you hold no weight have explained the term many a time so your definition of a salafi matters nothing to me, to be honest.

I refuted nor attempted to refute anyone here, it is merely expressing my opinion though in anger over these endless topics that never get anywhere. I am very well aware and never thought otherwise actually, that I get on some if not most peoples' nerves here and they are free to express it. In fact I am surprised I haven't been banned already. I don't make myself out to be perfect and oh so knowledgeable and loved by everyone. And your statement that one who quotes from dodgy sources is either ignorant or 100% down with the cult displays your own ignorance and shows no hesitation from you to place people into groups and labels. How sad from someone who supposedly has knowledge of matters. If I leave this forum I would never expect people to cry over me just as i would not cry over them. So no I am not a "conceited salafi" regardless of what you may think of me.

And if defending people like Sayyid Qutb may Allah have mercy on him is acceptable (and I believe it is), although he said what he said about THE PROPHETS, for example, then defending people like shaykh Rabee may Allah pardon him is acceptable to me as well. And your disagreement and labels matter nothing. You may choose to disagree with it all you want and belittle me all you want being that I speak no arabic and am new "here". The difference between you and me Abu Zubair is that I speak on what is before my eyes on this thread, you rather place labels on anyone who disagrees with you and assume to know more of us than what we write here. Anyway, I'm most likely just wasting my time here especially with you since you yourself are not doing anything to extinguish the fitna rather you jump in and throw more gasoline on the fire at a time when it could have went out.

That said, I will leave this thread alone specifically any useless discussion with you.

[Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari]

What works of Rabi' al-Madkhali have you read?
Most of the proofs exist in Arabic in Rabi's own writings.

Any more or less good-style writing contains summarizing statements that represent other, larger parts of the given writing.

Those statements CAN be translated and can be presented in EVERY thread on the matter of a given scholar, not by referring to earlier writings of yourself.

Saying "read what I wrote before" is arrogancy. Only very well established scholars can say that. Nobody HAS to read your threads, Abu Zubair, before reading anything.

If you have proof in the form I described it here, present it here.

[y-mughal]

Saying "read what I wrote before" is arrogancy. Only very well established scholars can say that. Nobody HAS to read your threads, Abu Zubair, before reading anything.

Sometimes it becomes irritating to the repeat the same stuff over and over again so there's no problem in saying "read what I wrote before" - after all a person should have read upon the topic at hand and the relevant threads before commenting as if they are some kind of expert. Anyway who says only 'very well established scholars' can say this?

[ummafnaan]

Assalamu alaikum,

At the end of the day i feel you Umm Ismail have accused everyone here, including myself of doing exactly the same thing you did. Remember the Yasir Qadhi thread where you defended the thread starter because I asked why they kept going on about the pledge? Your exact words were:

I agree that we have far more important issues to worry about, but this is what happens on forums, this one in particular, people comment on old news often.

So why do you now feel you have the right to address people on this particular forum with such a harsh tone. Who gave you that right? You are nobody's mother here. You do not know the background of any of the members whom you have just insulted, in cluding myself. Even the sister who started the thread did not blow up as you did.
So what if we insult Rabi'? Do you know whether or not he has affected us or people we love personally with his attacks? Since when is it a taboo to point out peoples faults just because they are a 'Shaykh'. Even if we point it out a hundred times, is he still not out there propagating his venom to innocent new comers to islam.

You have NO RIGHT to chastise anyone here or threaten to leave just because members do not agree with you. If you open a thread and don't like what u c then by all means leave. Don't start throwing insults around as if you own the place. You have in every single argument you have made contradicted yourself cos u did the exact same thing with every word u said. Islamic Awakening is one of the few forums where one can come and openely speak their mind without being politically correct. And yes sometimes we all fall short but I have a great amount of respect for the like of brother Abu-Zubair, etc because they refuse to be FORCED to be politically correct. That is more than I can say for all the other pathetic apologist websites. Keep it up IA members and may Allah reward you for speaking the truth without fearing the blame of any blamer.

[Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari]

Sometimes it becomes irritating to the repeat the same stuff over and over again so there's no problem in saying "read what I wrote before" - after all a person should have read upon the topic at hand and the relevant threads before commenting as if they are some kind of expert. Anyway who says only 'very well established scholars' can say this?

Because they have proved themselves in the company of the scholars, not in the company of students (at best). I haven't seen any single person on these forums even with established certification.

[Um Ismail]

Assalamu alaikum,


Wa alaykum assalam,


At the end of the day i feel you Umm Ismail have accused everyone here, including myself of doing exactly the same thing you did.

Than that is what you feel and you are entitled to it right or wrong in your feeling.And I was not speaking to everyone so what is your statement based upon? A question that needs no answer.

Remember the Yasir Qadhi thread where you defended the thread starter because I asked why they kept going on about the pledge? Your exact words were:

I agree that we have far more important issues to worry about, but this is what happens on forums, this one in particular, people comment on old news often.

Correct, I said that having noticed you were new here, the same or similar has been said to me not to long ago. That did not mean I agree with it, I just pointed it out and

So why do you now feel you have the right to address people on this particular forum with such a harsh tone. Who gave you that right? You are nobody's mother here.

There is a difference between discussing a matter as it was done in the thread you quoted my words from, it was discussed based on evidences, however, in this thread, a sister merely posted something beneficial and just because of the LINK from which she posted it was said to her "...YOUR shaykh Rabee...", thus labeling her immediately, basically. She didn't react the same way I did, it comes down to her and I being two different people and me being particularly irritaed with a lot of the threads about "salafis, madhkhalis, rabee". To bad if you don't know the difference. If you look through various threads (I believe I have been here a bit longer then you) you will see a number of threads turned into "Rabee bashing" for no apparent reason OR benefit. Thus my frustration and anger in this thread, as I could no longer keep silent as i tried to do when it came down to many other threads. I believe a Muslim has a right to tell another Muslim "what you are doing is not right, beneficial, etc...", I don't have to be anyone's mother in order to do so!!! If only a mother can do so, then you by no means have the right to adress and correct me either, so you aren't practicing what you preach be default!

You do not know the background of any of the members whom you have just insulted, in cluding myself. Even the sister who started the thread did not blow up as you did.

First of all, show me WHERE have I specifically adressed you and insulted you in this thread.If you felt my words were directed at you because of the comment you've made, then wear the shoe if it fits. If what i said to you in the other thread caused you to say what you're saying, then I believe I have apologized IN CASE I insulted you there, although I don't believe I did. I am not speaking on anyone's background here, I was commenting on WHAT WAS BEFORE MY EYES, so your accusation doesn't fit.

So what if we insult Rabi'? Do you know whether or not he has affected us or people we love personally with his attacks?

If he PERSONALLY came to your house or the house of your loved ones and PERSONALLY attacked you, then correct him in secret. However I believe what you are saying is that you or your loved ones have been personally AFFECTED by his words, which does not by default mean he is to blame. Use your common sense and guard yourself from what is harmful to you, don't go blaming everyone else (including shaykh Rabee) for your misfortunes. "SO what if you insult Shaykh Rabee"??? Serious? So it means you eat the flesh of the scholars. If you are given a platform and have enough knowledge to refute him, as I advised the brother, by all means do so. Calling him a shaytan here and saying of another MUSLIM brother that you would strangle him is not befitting of a Muslimah. So I advise against it and at the end of the day you do as you please, it comes down to your taqwa not mine. But if you are able to refute him and guide me to the truth as you should want to as my Muslim sister, by all means present detailed evidence to me and explain to me why and what is wrong about it keeping in mind the way of the salaf. I do believe he feel into many mistakes and people were affected by his words in a bad way, but I don't blame all of the fitna on him as this is injustice, however I will never say of him that he is a shaytan etc and I do believe he is from Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah and do not have to be a "madhkhali" by default. You will however find that whoever defends him here is labeled madhkhali immediately and belittled to no end.

Since when is it a taboo to point out peoples faults just because they are a 'Shaykh'. Even if we point it out a hundred times, is he still not out there propagating his venom to innocent new comers to islam.

As I said, pointing out mistakes is one thing, calling people shayateen etc is another. Allah wants you to be just even with the disbelievers, why not with a Muslim, regardless of what he may or may not have done to you? And since you need to point it out "a hundred times", and he is still outthere propagating "his venom", it only means you are not fit to do the job. Write a book, publish it, sit with the scholars, do SOMETHING if you can change it, if not, guard your tongue.There was no "pointing out the mistakes here", there was only backbiting and calling him names.

You have NO RIGHT to chastise anyone here or threaten to leave just because members do not agree with you.

LOL! I never "threatened" to leave. If I do leave only a few will miss me and I will miss only a few, which i am more than happy about. I don't make decisions based on whether it makes other people happy or not, I make them for myself and my own well being. And if I have no right to chastise anyone TO THEIR FACE, where they have a fair chance to respond, you also have no right to chastise those who are not even present to hear your arguments and reply accordingly. And you also according to your preaching have no right to chastise me. Practice what you preach, my advice to you.

If you open a thread and don't like what u c then by all means leave. Don't start throwing insults around as if you own the place.

When I start calling people names as you have done, then and ONLY then you can say I am insulting people. I still have hope that I am dealing with decent people who can accept and respect the fact that some of us would like to read a nice thread without deviating from the topic and spoiling it (as we all including myself have done here).


You have in every single argument you have made contradicted yourself cos u did the exact same thing with every word u said.

Really? Then you have surely done likewise. And your criticism thus is....?


Islamic Awakening is one of the few forums where one can come and openely speak their mind without being politically correct.

And I appreciated that and thanked brother Abu Zubair for it in the past, although I do not necessarily agree that such amount of freedom is from and good for peoples' Islam.

And yes sometimes we all fall short but I have a great amount of respect for the like of brother Abu-Zubair, etc because they refuse to be FORCED to be politically correct.

I have continuosly tried my best to show respect towards the members of this forum, apologised when I thought I was wrong, accepted advice, stood corrected, stayed away from belittling people, etc. But there comes a point in time when one cannot stand the disrespect and has to voice their opinion. No one is asking anyone here to be politically correct, but if you go around disrespecting and belittling people it is bound to come back to you. I am sure if I continue to stay on this forum, the respect i show towards the members of the forum, Abu Zubair in particular, will prevail over all I said in this thread to him or about him. I don't hold grudges and I don't speak on every little thing that bothers me, especially if someone gets on my nerves, I try my best to remain kind to him/her, as I see it is from islam. But as you said, we all fall short and so do I, and brother Abu Zubair's disrespect towards me ticked me off. He got on my nerves many times before however I never mentioned it and tried to remain kind. Now I am at the point if he wants respect, he needs to give it, not only to those who agree with him on everything but also those like me who don't.

[rasheed gonzales]

I am sure good brothers like justabro don't like to mention the word 'Madkhali' as an alternative Dhikr.
With the frequency he, and others, takes the opportunity to bash the shaikh and his (actual or perceived) followers, one would think otherwise.

[Salah ad-Din]

Brother Abu Zubair,...
I think you need chill out little bit. You dont need to be harsh against our sister, we should remember that many people try to act with "husn az-zann" against all muslims (but it doesn't work obviously)...so sister tries to hinder people from falling into "trap" (criticizing scholars)... So, we should respect and high esteem our sisters, they are sometimes over-zealous, that's good reason for us to adapt to their mood!

Sister Um Ismail, you have good advices, but you should also understand that it doesn't work allways, people have feelings and they have been hurted by so called "salafi shuyukh", I belive that calling al-Madkhali a scholar is too extreme. He is not a scholar, he is a talib al-'ilm!
He has so stupid mistakes when it comes to takhrij of riwayat...and all he can do is to lable others!

Amazing to what lengths your ignorance will take you defending a person who said about Sh Ibn Baz that he destroyed the Salafi Da'wah and that Ibn Jibrin has lost his Islam and deen!

where did he say it, brother Abu Zubair?

[Um Ismail]

[QUOTE=Salah ad-Din;122949]Brother Abu Zubair,...
I think you need chill out little bit. You dont need to be harsh against our sister, we should remember that many people try to act with "husn az-zann" against all muslims (but it doesn't work obviously)...so sister tries to hinder people from falling into "trap" (criticizing scholars)... So, we should respect and high esteem our sisters, they are sometimes over-zealous, that's good reason for us to adapt to their mood!

Sister Um Ismail, you have good advices, but you should also understand that it doesn't work allways, people have feelings and they have been hurted by so called "salafi shuyukh", I belive that calling al-Madkhali a scholar is too extreme. He is not a scholar, he is a talib al-'ilm!
He has so stupid mistakes when it comes to takhrij of riwayat...and all he can do is to lable others!

Brother Salah ad-Din,

May Allah reward you for your words, it is exactly what I tried to do, although obviously it did not work. The only reason why I was harsh which is not my usual self is because I became fed up with almost every topic being linked to shaykh Rabee and the fitna that follows thereafter. So it was a poor attempt on my behalf to try and prevent it. So jazakom Allah khayr.

As for calling shaykh rabee a "shaykh", I have always done so and will continue to do so insha'Allah akhi al karim, regardless of his mistakes and whom he injusted, because he is known as a shaykh by the scholars and that means more to me than what common people feel or say about him. If not for his knowledge, then at least for his age I will continue to respect him as my elder, thus I call him shaykh. Many have fallen into grave mistakes, specifically in aqeedah, and I do not say that it takes away from their rank and they are still from Ahlus Sunnah. And I believe shaykh rabee is from Ahlus Sunnah as well, although he transgressed in his refutations. I will never say about a Muslim, especially a Muslim scholar, with certainty, that he deliberately did this or that. I have learned long ago that things are not always as they seem, and in the end only Allah knows the intentions. And if he labels others, we can be better then that by refraining from doing so. At least this way we guard ourselves and it can only serve us well, insha'Allah, on Yawmul Qiyamah.

Anyway, again, jazakom Allah khayran brother.

[Salah ad-Din]

Sister!
I hope you will just give up this debate, inshaallah...at the end I hope you get your reward from Allah for your sincere "niyyah", inshaallah! Your try to hide your brothers shortcomings, and I hope Allah will cover your shortcoming in Akhirah! AMIN!

As for ar-Rabi' al-Madkhali:

Shaikh Ibn Al-Ghudayyan was asked about him being the "Bearer of Flag of Jarh wa Ta'dil"
السائل : يا شيخ هل هذا صحيح هناك من يقول أنه يوجد علماء الجرح و التعديل في هذا الزمان فهل هذا صحيح "؟
الشيخ الغديان : و الله يا أخي علم الجرح و التعديل موجود في الكتب .
السائل : في وقتنا هذا هل يوجد ؟
الشيخ : لا ، علم الجرح و التعديل عن علماء الحديث الذين نقلوا لنا الأحاديث بالأسانيد موجود في كتب الجرح و التعديل فما نحتاج إلى أحد الحين .
السائل : يا شيخ هناك من يقول أن الدكتور ربيع بن هادي المدخلي حامل لواء الجرح و التعديل ؟
الشيخ :لا ، أنا لو يصادفني في الطريق ما عرفته يمكن ، ما علي من أحد
"Questioner: O Shaikh! Is this correct: we have someone here who claims that there are scholars of jarh and ta'dil in this time and is this correct?
Shaikh: Wallahi, o brother! The schience of jarh and ta'dil exists in books"
Questioner: Do we have such scholars nowadays?
Shaikh: Science of Jarh and ta'dil from scholars of hadith who reported ahadith with their isnads to us exist in the books of jarh and ta'dil and we dont need such a scholar now!
Questioner: O Shaikh: There is someone who says that Doctor Rabi' bin Hadi al-Madkhali is a Bearer of the Flag of Jarh wat-Ta'dil!
Shaikh: No, it's possible that if i had encountered him on the street i would not be able to recognize him..."

LISTEN! (http://www.alathary.net/vb2/attachment.php?attachmentid=3917)

And Ibn Jibreen, who was asked about al-Madkhalis attacks against Adnan 'Arur and he answered:
ربيع المدخلي ليس هو مقبول الكلام في الجرح والتعديل؛ فإن له أخطاء في كتبه تدل على جهله أو تجاهله بما يقول!!! وله مؤلفات يطعن فيها على الكثير من الدعاة والعلماء المشاهير
"Rabi' al-Madkhali, his words is not acceptable in Jarh and Ta'dil!He has mistakes in his books which proves his ignorance and the fact that he doesnt understand what he says!!! He has many writings where he attack many of the student of knowledge and famous scholars..."
http://www.ibn-jebreen.com/ftawa.php?view=vmasal&subid=1108&parent=3225

So, sister! Certainly Shaikh ibn Jibreen is a true scholar, who has warned against bitter tongue of al-Madkhali many times, but al-Madkhali can not simply take advices! In stead of putting end to his madness, he continued bashing sincere people!
So, I believe that you have very good and sincere intentions and may Allah reward you! But I can assure you that many brothers here have got more or less trouble with Rabi'a al-Madkhali! I personally, can not fix my life properly because his fixed-up manhaj issues...You should pardon us for such harsh attitude against him, and i believe that is's justified!

[abu_ibrahim]

This sister has completely ruined the thread. I was quite looking forward to some Madkhali bashing. Perhaps we need a new feature on this site, where we can ban certain members from posting in certain threads?

[Um Ismail]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This sister has completely ruined the thread. I was quite looking forward to some Madkhali bashing.

That was my point exactly. Sorry to have stood in the way of your hobby. No need to ban from certain threads, why not ban me from the forum?

[Hamza]

This man Rabbi aint no Shaykh, he cant touch the legacy of Syed Qutb. It always makes me very angry when they quote Rabbi against Qutb, via filthy PDF's from scum manhaj.

Alhamdulillah it is a sign of how much the Ummah loves Qutb as the Cultists have not extinguished his words; maashAllah he is more popular than ever. They actually probably helped this. Look at the way Syed wrote his books, under oppression yet so beautiful. See how he is quoted by mountains of the Ummah like A. Azzam.

Who quotes the Rabbi?

[Magoo]

people talk about looking at the world though "rose tinted specs", im starting to think its "sheikh rabee tinted specs" for some people

[justabro]

Because they have proved themselves in the company of the scholars, not in the company of students (at best). I haven't seen any single person on these forums even with established certification.

Read what I wrote before. There, I said it... oh wait, that must mean I'm a well established scholar... woohoo... i finally made it.

Give me your fax number and I will send you copies of my ijazas (established certification)

[Um Ismail]

Brother Salah ad-Din,

It was never supposed to be a debate in the first place, I understand scholars have criticised him and others have praised him at the same time, and I am not denying he has mistakes. This was not the objective of my comments akhi.

Barak Allah feekom, and i will take your advice and let the kids have their fun disguised as "but we're only warning...."

[Abu wakee]

It may sound repetitive but I felt I should show my support. Rabi' al-madkhali is a shaytan, I say this not because Im some crackpot neo-khariji SJer (far from that) but because Rabi al-madkhali's cultism had an effect on my deen in my early days too.

[Magoo]

I may sound repetitive but I felt I should show my support. Rabi' al-madkhali is a shaytan, I say this not because Im some crackpot neo-khariji SJer (far from that) but because Rabi al-madkhali's cultism had an effect on my deen in my early days too.

its amazing how many members here were affected by them, i was also affected by them when i first came to deen and alhamdulillah quickly moved away when the "boycott so and so" started

[Salah ad-Din]

Read what I wrote before. There, I said it... oh wait, that must mean I'm a well established scholar... woohoo... i finally made it.

Give me your fax number and I will send you copies of my ijazas (established certification)

lol...i'm first in line! do you give also titles, like "duktoor", or "hamil livail-jarhi wat-ta'dil", "allamatul-forum"...

[Abuz Zubair]

Umm Ismail,

You are an example of the problem we have with typical Salafi culture which gives immature newcomers too much confidence due to which they start bashing people over issues they haven't a clue about.

You haven't a clue about Rabi' al-Madkhali nor any of his works. I asked you which of his works in Arabic have you read, or which of his beneficial works you think we can take benefit from. You cannot come up with anything. But you still insist you know enough to speak to respectable brothers like justabro in a shameful manner. You see, just because a person is down to earth and humble, doesn't mean he could be walked all over. You need to know, firstly, your level, and secondly, appreciate the level, knowledge and experience of brothers like justabro. Once you do that, then you can be in a position to air your criticisms of his views or words and I am sure he would deal with all your queries in a respectful manner.

I asked you how can you defend a person who accuses Ibn Baz of destroying Salafiyya and Ibn Jibrin of losing his religion, and you say nothing in response.

You bring up my attitude towards people like abumwahid and others on this forums who have been saying outrageous things against the scholars and expressing outrageously extreme views in a very ignoble manner. You can excuse your harshness on us because you've had it up to here. But your hypocrisy won't allow you to consider for a second that others may also have had it up to here with ppl like abumuwahid and others. Again, double standards, and typical Salafi trait.

Now, don't get me wrong! I am not saying you cannot question brothers like justabro. All I am saying is that there is a difference between politely asking him why he says what he says, and lashing out on him over an issue where you are the one absolutely ignorant. Ignorant people can learn and not debate. I always say this to newcomers amongst the conceited Salafis and some even learn after a while. Hopefully, one day you will learn, too. I am sure if you ask justabro why has says what he says, he will give you all the reasons he has very politely. If you lash out on him then he isn't a type of person who lashes out on others. I am.

[Abuz Zubair]

its amazing how many members here were affected by them, i was also affected by them when i first came to deen and alhamdulillah quickly moved away when the "boycott so and so" started
You're lucky. Others weren't so lucky and as I am hearing some of the 'duat' have basically shaved off their beards and isolated themselves from the Muslims and lost their deen. The buck stops with the father of menace, Rabi' al-Madkhali - the REAL destroyer of Salafiyya as opposed to Ibn Baz - rahimahullah.

[ummafnaan]

Um Ismail,

WHERE? By Allah, SHOW ME WHERE THE ENDLESS RABI' BASHING THREADS ARE FOR I HAVE NOT SEEN THEM. For your information I am not new here. i only started posting recently but I HAVE been reading up on the site for a while now. For goodness sake get off ur high-horse.
All I have read from your words is utter arrogance and a sense of you know better than others. Actually much of what you said in response to me does not even make sense to me. So I still reiterate that until you can also bring evidence from Qur'an and sunnah where it is forbidden to CALL A SHAYTAAN A SHAYTAAN and also warn against the likes of him I suggest you just back off and stop attacking sincere muslims who actually know what they are talking about. Who are you to question me because I said I feel like strangling that SHAYTAAN Abu khadija? Do u know me or my relationship to him? NO U DON'T!
For your information I never claimed to have the kowledge of any of the scholars, so you can c why I wouldn't publish a book to refute Rabi' and his cronies. However Allah's deen was not only revealed to be understood only by the scholars and even a 2yr old who is exposed to Rabi' and his evil will know that this man is a MUNAAFIQ and not a scholar. If you choose to call him a scholar that is your bloody business; even Mirza Ghulam Ahmed had and still has thousands he view him as a scholar, but we all know what he truly is right?
Even the true Ulema have warned against the likes of Rabi' and his EVIL! I repeat you have NO RIGHT, NO RIGHT to lash out at anybody the way you did and you my dear are the one who needs to FEAR ALLAH, not anyone else here.
Even our beloved Prophet (saw) warned us by saying: 'I fear for you something that is worse than the fitnah of the Dajjal'. When he was asked what that thing was he said 'THE WICKED SCHOLARS'. So please tell me whether or not even the layman can distinguish who is and isn't a wicked scholar among the Ulema? Is there any ambiguity in Allah's deen. Brother Basic is the most attacked(in my opinion) brother on this forum, yet even he has managed to still bring across is arguments in a more civilised manner. And if Rabi' is worth someone defending him, then the brothers on this forum are even more deserving of defense.
You have just let out endless rants against a sincere group of peolple, and for the likes of WHO? Rabi'. PATHETIC. You talk about people needing to respect themselves; is there anymore a disrespctful and disgraceful way than the way you have carried on and lashed out at Muslim Brothers since this thread started? Bickering endlessly just because sincere brothers pointed out the evil of this man. And it is as Abu Zubair asked, HAVE U OR HAVE U NOT READ ANY OF HIS WORKS? Unless you have then I believe even discussing with you is not worth the effort.

[Um Ismail]

Umm Ismail,

You are an example of the problem we have with typical Salafi culture which gives immature newcomers too much confidence due to which they start bashing people over issues they haven't a clue about.

You haven't a clue about Rabi' al-Madkhali nor any of his works. I asked you which of his works in Arabic have you read, or which of his beneficial works you think we can take benefit from. You cannot come up with anything. But you still insist you know enough to speak to respectable brothers like justabro in a shameful manner. You see, just because a person is down to earth and humble, doesn't mean he could be walked all over. You need to know, firstly, your level, and secondly, appreciate the level, knowledge and experience of brothers like justabro. Once you do that, then you can be in a position to air your criticisms of his views or words and I am sure he would deal with all your queries in a respectful manner.

I asked you how can you defend a person who accuses Ibn Baz of destroying Salafiyya and Ibn Jibrin of losing his religion, and you say nothing in response.

You bring up my attitude towards people like abumwahid and others on this forums who have been saying outrageous things against the scholars and expressing outrageously extreme views in a very ignoble manner. You can excuse your harshness on us because you've had it up to here. But your hypocrisy won't allow you to consider for a second that others may also have had it up to here with ppl like abumuwahid and others. Again, double standards, and typical Salafi trait.

Now, don't get me wrong! I am not saying you cannot question brothers like justabro. All I am saying is that there is a difference between politely asking him why he says what he says, and lashing out on him over an issue where you are the one absolutely ignorant. Ignorant people can learn and not debate. I always say this to newcomers amongst the conceited Salafis and some even learn after a while. Hopefully, one day you will learn, too. I am sure if you ask justabro why has says what he says, he will give you all the reasons he has very politely. If you lash out on him then he isn't a type of person who lashes out on others. I am.

Talk about fitna makers. Again, the biggest fitna maker here is you. Spare me your lecture and arrogance. If you can't comprehend what is said and why it is said, don't even speak-to me. What utter hypocrisy you display when you say I should politely ask rather then what I've done, yet look at you and what you're doing. As if you are somehow above it and it doesn't apply to you. But yeah, everyone else should be polite etc except your "gangsta" self. You can attributre hypocrisy to me when I start calling people names as you have done, and excuse myself for it but not others. So far alhamdulillah I haven't called anyone out of their name like you have done on numerous occasions. So your charge of hypocrisy doesn't apply.

Besides, you are nobody here, I don't and never have felt like I have to answer to you. Through my observations it is impossible to hold a normal discussion with you even with evidences so long one does not share your views and arrogant opinions and ways of belittling people. Sorry, I refuse to be one of your cheerleaders just to step on your good side. That said, stop wasting your time, I surely don't have much of my own to waste on the likes of you.

[anam]

What is this ?


lol is become like a cafe !

pls Umm Ismaeil get some rest

[Um Ismail]

what is it to you brother?

[aboo ahmad]

Jazaakumullaahu khayra katheera

I read the first couple of posts under what I wrote yesterday and I appreciate all comments directed towards me. This thread has jumped more then one page in 24 hours so I am not sure how much I can and catch up with, so please forgive me In shaa Allaah.

Enjoy this link In shaa Allaah -

<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4iTViQJsN5A&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

[Um Ismail]

Um Ismail,

WHERE? By Allah, SHOW ME WHERE THE ENDLESS RABI' BASHING THREADS ARE FOR I HAVE NOT SEEN THEM. For your information I am not new here. i only started posting recently but I HAVE been reading up on the site for a while now. For goodness sake get off ur high-horse.
All I have read from your words is utter arrogance and a sense of you know better than others. Actually much of what you said in response to me does not even make sense to me. So I still reiterate that until you can also bring evidence from Qur'an and sunnah where it is forbidden to CALL A SHAYTAAN A SHAYTAAN and also warn against the likes of him I suggest you just back off and stop attacking sincere muslims who actually know what they are talking about. Who are you to question me because I said I feel like strangling that SHAYTAAN Abu khadija? Do u know me or my relationship to him? NO U DON'T!
For your information I never claimed to have the kowledge of any of the scholars, so you can c why I wouldn't publish a book to refute Rabi' and his cronies. However Allah's deen was not only revealed to be understood only by the scholars and even a 2yr old who is exposed to Rabi' and his evil will know that this man is a MUNAAFIQ and not a scholar. If you choose to call him a scholar that is your bloody business; even Mirza Ghulam Ahmed had and still has thousands he view him as a scholar, but we all know what he truly is right?
Even the true Ulema have warned against the likes of Rabi' and his EVIL! I repeat you have NO RIGHT, NO RIGHT to lash out at anybody the way you did and you my dear are the one who needs to FEAR ALLAH, not anyone else here.
Even our beloved Prophet (saw) warned us by saying: 'I fear for you something that is worse than the fitnah of the Dajjal'. When he was asked what that thing was he said 'THE WICKED SCHOLARS'. So please tell me whether or not even the layman can distinguish who is and isn't a wicked scholar among the Ulema? Is there any ambiguity in Allah's deen. Brother Basic is the most attacked(in my opinion) brother on this forum, yet even he has managed to still bring across is arguments in a more civilised manner. And if Rabi' is worth someone defending him, then the brothers on this forum are even more deserving of defense.
You have just let out endless rants against a sincere group of peolple, and for the likes of WHO? Rabi'. PATHETIC. You talk about people needing to respect themselves; is there anymore a disrespctful and disgraceful way than the way you have carried on and lashed out at Muslim Brothers since this thread started? Bickering endlessly just because sincere brothers pointed out the evil of this man. And it is as Abu Zubair asked, HAVE U OR HAVE U NOT READ ANY OF HIS WORKS? Unless you have then I believe even discussing with you is not worth the effort.


It is amazing that here you admit you don't claim to have knowledge of any of the scholars yet it doesn't prevent you from calling one a shaytan!!! As for the rest of your rants, sister, when you start practicing what you preach, then and ONLY then come and preach it to me. You seem rather unstable sister. Yes I have read some of his works although not all of them, yet even a "2 yr old" knows that regardless of the mistakes he has, he certainly has good with him too, so to call him a shaytan and swear by Allah that he is a shaytan is your business which you will answer for. The ulemaa have warned against his mistakes, yes, they have not backbiten and continuously called him all sorts of names under the pretense of "warning against mistakes", so there is a huge difference between what the ulemaa have done and what the laymen of the forum, including yourself, are doing. Have the ulemaa said he is not from Ahlus Sunnah? That his aqeedah is not that of Ahlus Sunnah? That he is a shaytan and that it's ok to feel like you want to strangle other Muslims? It is a reflection on YOU only if you do not see the difference. You seem very disturbed, judging by your rants towards me.

If you cannot present evidence why do "I" have to? If you can not guard your tongue what gives you the right to expect it of me? That is, according to your theory of "who gives you the right". But you know, you DO have the right since you are a Muslim and not perfect, in Islam we do not have to be 100% sinless to have the right to advise. Again, when I start calling people names as is done on this forum which I particularly have a problem with thus my comments, then and ONLY then come and say to me what you just said. Otherwise, keep your meaningless rants to yourself. And since it is an "open forum" and since I must accept that people will post what they choose to whether I like it or not, then you must do the same for me. Otherwise you're a hypocrite. And since by your acknowledgement that you do not possess the knowledge to refute and warn against shaykh rabee, you have then commited gheebah in this thread since your talking about a man served no purpose whatsoever. Do you know when "backbiting" is not backbiting? Read what the past scholars have said.

I assume you are not able to do so, so I will be the better one and leave this useless arguing. Sadly you do not even know what you argue about or for.

[Abuz Zubair]

And it is as Abu Zubair asked, HAVE U OR HAVE U NOT READ ANY OF HIS WORKS? Unless you have then I believe even discussing with you is not worth the effort.

Being a Madkhali product she would always believe that she is the most knowledgeable of Allah's creation such that she doesn't need to read Rabi's works to make a judgement. She doesn't even need to tell us which of his books we can actually benefit from. Ibn Baz doesn't mean anything to her, after all, she is a blind-follower of Madkhali. Ibn Jibreen can be accused of losing his deen, but don't you dare say a word against her Imam of jarh and ta'deel. This is what madkhalism does to a person. May Allah save us all from this cancer, ameen.

[Um Ismail]

Being a Madkhali product she would always believe that she is the most knowledgeable of Allah's creation such that she doesn't need to read Rabi's works to make a judgement. She doesn't even need to tell us which of his books we can actually benefit from. Ibn Baz doesn't mean anything to her, after all, she is a blind-follower of Madkhali. Ibn Jibreen can be accused of losing his deen, but don't you dare say a word against her Imam of jarh and ta'deel. This is what madkhalism does to a person. May Allah save us all from this cancer, ameen.


I hope you have the fear of the Day when you will be questioned about your lies and slanders. You deliberately ignore everything I've said about shaykh rabee, you deliberately ignore what i said about Sayyid Qutb rahimahullah etc etc. A Madhkhali does not defend SAyyid Qutb nor says anythign good about him. I do. You have slandered me in saying shaykh Ibn Baz rahimahullah means nothing to me, and you have deliberately said shaykh rabee is "my imam....." etc etc. This is why you should be ashamed and not speak Abu Zubair and this is why people lose respect for you they might have had at one point in time. You do not fear Allah in what you say about people, and then people are supposed to learn something from your type?

As I said it before, I say it again, you are a fitna maker unlike any I've seen. You accuse and slander me only to call away from what I was TRULY saying, may Allah guide you and the likes of you. You claim guidance while I pray for it, may Allah save me from the arrogance that you display. You are a lowly person if you need to resort to lies and slander, especially when I have made it clear I am NOT a Madhkhali NOR do I agree with a lot of rabee's words about individuals. I am certain you are aware of my points and objective, however to acknoledge it would mean desisting from slandering which is a drug you seem to not be able to do without. You are quick in saying the madhkhalis, salafis, whatever the group you dislike, are causing divisions, yet you yourself are doing the very same thing, at least right here on this forum, by way of lies and slander just like the madhkhalis do. So you are no better then them, in reality. You are in desparate need of guidance so pray for it.

[Um Ismail]

Jazaakumullaahu khayra katheera

I read the first couple of posts under what I wrote yesterday and I appreciate all comments directed towards me. This thread has jumped more then one page in 24 hours so I am not sure how much I can and catch up with, so please forgive me In shaa Allaah.

Enjoy this link In shaa Allaah -

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<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4iTViQJsN5A&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

Jazakom Allah khayran for this brother. Although I am sure a group here will be quick to belittle the scholar, and others will take his words and say they are addressing the likes of Madhkhalis only, as such they can not possibly apply to them. At least they would like to think so, as they want to be exempt from this beautiful advice by all means, since acceptance thereof demands that they remain silent and know their place, which they either refuse or cannot do.

Jazakom Allah khayran, surely in the process I've forgotten it myself.

[Abuz Zubair]

Madkhalis come in different flavours. You are one of the milder ones. Your immaturity, boldness and manners speak a lot louder than your words.

[aboo ahmad]

Jazakom Allah khayran for this brother. Although I am sure a group here will be quick to belittle the scholar, and others will take his words and say they are addressing the likes of Madhkhalis only, as such they can not possibly apply to them. At least they would like to think so, as they want to be exempt from this beautiful advice by all means, since acceptance thereof demands that they remain silent and know their place, which they either refuse or cannot do.

Jazakom Allah khayran, surely in the process I've forgotten it myself.We are all in a learning process. Some of us have a lot of knowledge and some of us have very little. The big struggle I find is to take the emotional side from a debate and apply that knowledge I have aquired, no matter how little it is compared to the knowledge of you brothers and sisters.

[ummafnaan]

Umm Ismail,

LOL! I am disturbed. I am not the one trolling around all the threads seeking to pick fights and arguments with any and every one who has a different opinion to mine.

You keep blowing all that hot air! It doesn't add any meaning to all ur nonsense and senseless arguments.

'They are deaf, dumb and blind and will never see.'
By the way I hope you are ready to stand b4 Allah swt on Yawm ul Qiyaama and defend ur calling me a hypocrite.. No wait! it is typical of hypocrites to on the one hand accuse others of calling other people names and immediately do exactly the same thing in the very next sentence.

Allah will continue to expose the TRUE HYPOCRITES. What utter nonsense.

Brother Abu Zubair 'He (saw) said I promise a home in the echelons of paradise for the one who leaves of an argument even when they know they are on the haqq'. I sincerely ask you in the name of Allah to just leave things be. Clearly you and justbro have been wronged and Allah will reward you for your sincerity. Whoever feels they have nothing better to do can continue ranting and raving till the TRUMPET IS BLOWN. It will never change the facts.

[Anikaa]

Can i please get a moderator to close this thread, inshaaAllah? It's gone way out of hand, and i don't want to feel like i'm responsible for it in anyway.

and...Jazakullaah khayr to those who contributed well to the thread.

Wassalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakaatuhu

[aboo ahmad]

May Allaah ta'ala guide us all!

[Salah ad-Din]

Yes, it's better to stop these personal attacks! It resembles more an uncontrolled hatred between to different religions, than brethren arguing eachother...
May Allah guide us!

[Um Ismail]

As for AZ ummafnaan, I will leave him be. But as for YOU, either you are a liar, one who deliberately miscontrues my words, OR you just do not read properly for whatever reason. I NEVER SAID YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE. I said ".......otherwise you're a hypocrite". Obviously you do not pay attention to the context, whether deliberately or not, Allah knows. It's sad you are so obsessed with this that you feel the need to go through all my posts in order to find something that you can use against me in your rants. This is called looking for faults of other people, not a good thing to do for a Muslim. Should have focused on the thread, especially when you need to worry about your own words you say here.

Sister, stop with your nonsense and stop addressing me.

To the rest of the brothers and sisters, sorry i know it is annoying, but I won't let anyone lie about me and accuse me of something I never said!

P.S. I could care less about all this rep points business, however if you have something to say it is better to say it to ones face. As if taking points away and disapproving of my points is supposed to change my mind about it all. What a joke.

[aboo ahmad]

I was on another forum recently. Maa shaa Allaah it is full of good stuff like this one and I made a big comment on one issue, advising the person that they should do such and such and I had not read thread properly because all the ramble I spat out had already been covered, looking like a silly boy indeed just wanting to speak for the sake of speaking. May Allaah forgive our shortcomings!

[Abuz Zubair]

Brother Abu Zubair 'He (saw) said I promise a home in the echelons of paradise for the one who leaves of an argument even when they know they are on the haqq'. I sincerely ask you in the name of Allah to just leave things be.

JK, and the same advice to you, sister. I don't think she is (ever) in the frame of mind to take advice and be corrected. She is extremely stubborn and very ignorant about a lot of the issues so it is better to let go of the discussion than to carry on forever.

[rasheed gonzales]

She is extremely stubborn and very ignorant about a lot of the issues so it is better to let go of the discussion than to carry on forever.
Heh. Pot ... kettle ... black.

[Um Ismail]

JK, and the same advice to you, sister. I don't think she is (ever) in the frame of mind to take advice and be corrected. She is extremely stubborn and very ignorant about a lot of the issues so it is better to let go of the discussion than to carry on forever.

*broken record*

At least if I lash out I lash out for the honor to be given to others. I will not resort to speaking behind your back, speaking about you for no apparent reason at all, and calling you unbefitting names. I will not resort to assuming the rank of scholars either. You lash out in the name of and for the sake of Abu Zubair. You will resort to everything I oppose. Alhamdulillah for the difference between us.

First learn the difference between advice and condemning/belittling. At least I am and HAVE been able to admit when I am wrong, unlike you. The evidence is right here on the forum, it speaks for itself.

[Umm Ahmed]

Sister Umm ismail , just a bro has opened a thread here http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=13878

I think at the start of the thread its mainly arabic refutations , but InshaAllaah there will be english ones too , then you can ask questions sis, knowledge is everything.
Also read the following thread from the archives http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=8 and the link justabro posted in this thread for you to read, then you might understand why there is a hatred thats sprung from Sheik Rabees comments that have raised a whole monster culture.

[Um Ismail]

Sister Umm ismail , just a bro has opened a thread here http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=13878

I think at the start of the thread its mainly arabic refutations , but InshaAllaah there will be english ones too , then you can ask questions sis, knowledge is everything.
Also read the following thread from the archives http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=8 and the link justabro posted in this thread for you to read, then you might understand why there is a hatred thats sprung from Sheik Rabees comments that have raised a whole monster culture.

Jazaki Allah khayran sister Umm Ahmed. I appreciate the advice and instruction. However I've seen the thread already yet have no interest in taking knowledge from those mentioned, since I do not trust them with my deen. I've seen the arguments before and this is NOT about establishing proofs against the shaykh.

Anyway, jazakom Allah khayr.

[Abuz Zubair]

Sister Umm ismail , just a bro has opened a thread here http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=13878

I think at the start of the thread its mainly arabic refutations , but InshaAllaah there will be english ones too , then you can ask questions sis, knowledge is everything.
Also read the following thread from the archives http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=8 and the link justabro posted in this thread for you to read, then you might understand why there is a hatred thats sprung from Sheik Rabees comments that have raised a whole monster culture.
JK but as you can see we have a case of a die-hard madkhali fan here. She would only take her knowledge from madkhali.

[justabro]

Jazaki Allah khayran sister Umm Ahmed. I appreciate the advice and instruction. However I've seen the thread already yet have no interest in taking knowledge from those mentioned, since I do not trust them with my deen. I've seen the arguments before and this is NOT about establishing proofs against the shaykh.

Anyway, jazakom Allah khayr.

Firstly, I just want to say I did not open that thread for your benefit, as I had no doubt you would be uninterested in reading it.

Quite frankly, it doesn't bother me one way or another if you don't agree with us about him. But I hope you don't mind my asking, if it's not about establishing proofs against him, what IS it about? Have you considered that you may be condemning us for our view on him, while we're actually right AND justified in it? It's obvious from your statements you don't really know much about him, so don't you think its a bit presumptuous to condemn us for something you are not knowledgeable about? You could at least have the courtesy to try and understand why we have taken our view before condemning us for it.

[Hamza]

Umm Ismail,

You are an example of the problem we have with typical Salafi culture which gives immature newcomers too much confidence due to which they start bashing people over issues they haven't a clue about.

You haven't a clue about Rabi' al-Madkhali nor any of his works. I asked you which of his works in Arabic have you read, or which of his beneficial works you think we can take benefit from. You cannot come up with anything. But you still insist you know enough to speak to respectable brothers like justabro in a shameful manner. You see, just because a person is down to earth and humble, doesn't mean he could be walked all over. You need to know, firstly, your level, and secondly, appreciate the level, knowledge and experience of brothers like justabro. Once you do that, then you can be in a position to air your criticisms of his views or words and I am sure he would deal with all your queries in a respectful manner.

I asked you how can you defend a person who accuses Ibn Baz of destroying Salafiyya and Ibn Jibrin of losing his religion, and you say nothing in response.

You bring up my attitude towards people like abumwahid and others on this forums who have been saying outrageous things against the scholars and expressing outrageously extreme views in a very ignoble manner. You can excuse your harshness on us because you've had it up to here. But your hypocrisy won't allow you to consider for a second that others may also have had it up to here with ppl like abumuwahid and others. Again, double standards, and typical Salafi trait.

Now, don't get me wrong! I am not saying you cannot question brothers like justabro. All I am saying is that there is a difference between politely asking him why he says what he says, and lashing out on him over an issue where you are the one absolutely ignorant. Ignorant people can learn and not debate. I always say this to newcomers amongst the conceited Salafis and some even learn after a while. Hopefully, one day you will learn, too. I am sure if you ask justabro why has says what he says, he will give you all the reasons he has very politely. If you lash out on him then he isn't a type of person who lashes out on others. I am.

Well said matey...