The Rabee al-Madkhali Refutation Thread

[justabro]

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah

I think it is high time that there be an extensive refutation of Rabee al-Madkhali in English. I think this should be a cooperative effort, as it's simply not worth any one person wasting all their time to gather all the material. Let's try and keep this thread focused on gathering substantive materials that is available against him, etc. as there are plenty of other threads if people just want to discuss or give their viewpoints.

Everyone is welcome to contribute, and those who have questions are welcome to ask questions about his "manhaj".

A Note on How to Benefit from This Thread:
Ignore Ali's posts and the responses to him and continue reading

[Hamza]

I would like a clarification on this specific allegation against the shaheed; Syed Qutb.

1. What did Syed mean when he was writing about "excitable folk" with regards to Musa as. ?

[Abu Ikrimah]

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah

I think it is high time that there be an extensive refutation of Rabee al-Madkhali in English. I think this should be a cooperative effort, as it's simply not worth any one person wasting all their time to gather all the material. Let's try and keep this thread focused on gathering substantive materials that is available against him, etc. as there are plenty of other threads if people just want to discuss or give their viewpoints.

Everyone is welcome to contribute, and those who have questions are welcome to ask questions about his "manhaj".

I can't believe you have done this!

But seeing as you have, I think you should start off with who he is, what he has done (good and bad), what 'madkhalism' is, how it has so many offshoots, the damage it has done to the da'wah, and then, finally, a proposed solution to the crisis...

you would well be worth a phd by that time...

[hearandobey]

jazakAllahu khayran for this.

what would you say about some of the things said about sayid qutb's tafsir here (http://www.saaid.net/Doat/ehsan/74.htm)? some of the quotes are taken from rabi's book.

[Abu Sabaya]

'Alaykum as-Salam wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatuh;

Go to al-Ma'ribi's website, he has a number of refutations of Rabi' written up:

الجواب البديع في رد بعض تشنيعات الشيخ ربيع (http://www.sulaymani.net/play.php?catsmktba=502)
تحذير الجميع من أخطاء الشيخ ربيع وأسلوبه الشنيع (http://www.sulaymani.net/play.php?catsmktba=504)
إعلان النكير على منهج الشيخ ربيع في التكفير (http://www.sulaymani.net/play.php?catsmktba=506)
القول المفحم لمن أنكر مقالة "نصحح ولا نهدم" رد على الشيخ ربيع المدخلي (http://www.sulaymani.net/play.php?catsmktba=507)

Revenge, I guess.

[Abu Faaris Al-Atharee]

This page was put together buy some brothers who have a deep interest( or addiction) in refuting rabee' al-Madkhali.

http://www.alathary.org/rabee/

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

Translations are in dire need!

[Abuz Zubair]

JK justabro! Much needed thread. Hopefully, it would be of as much benefit as the threads we have on Ash'aris.

[Allah Diya]

You can never refute him, alhamdulillah, he had an excellent understanding of the manhaj of this religion, not to mention his mastery of aqeeda related issues. All your endeavors will prove to be futile and wasted with regard to refuting the Imam of Jarh wa't tadeel.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum,

abuz zubayr what would be the view on shaykh rabee? The reason i ask is because we see some praise by shaykh al albaani rahimahullah ibn uthaymeen rahimahullah and others of shaykh rabee. But then again we have other ulama warning him about his harshness and injustice when criticizing individuals

[Abuz Zubair]

al-Imam al-Madkhali's Jarh on Ibn Baz:

قال فريد فريد المالكي مخاطبا ربيع المدخلي :
" لحظة يا شيخ، أنا يا شيخ سمعتك يوم - والله يشهد والملائكة والناس أجمعين - ونحن في المطار ؛ قلت ياشيخ : الشيخ ابن باز طعن في السلفية طعنة شديدة؛ لو أنا يا شيخ مسكت التلفون داخل المملكة ، الشيخ ربيع يطعن في ابن باز الشيخ ربيع يطعن في ابن باز ، هذا يا شيخ ويش رأيك فيه ؟! ترضى هذا مني؟!

فرد عليه ربيع قائلاً : وأنا وأش أقصد ، عرفت أنا وأش أقصد ؟!
فريد المالكي : أنا فاهم قصدك ، لشان كدة مانشرت ! لكن لو أنا رُحت وقلت : الشيخ طعن في ابن باز ، ما رأيك ياشيخ في هذا ؟!
واش رأيك ياشيخ في هذا ؟!
فقال ترحيب الدوسري : فعلاً هذه دعوى عريضة !!؟
فقال ربيع المدخلي : أسمع ، أسمع ، أنا قصدت أي شيء !؟
فقال فريد المالكي : أنا عارف قصدك ياشيخ ! أنا عارف قصدك!
فقال ربيع المدخلي: ويش هو قصدي؟
قال فريد المالكي : الشيخ ما يعلم مو داري بالموضوع .
فقال ربيع المدخلي: لكن تخبرني ويش هو الطعن اللي قلته أنا إيش اقصد؟
فقال فريد: لمّا التقيت بالشيخ عبدالعزيز ، وأخذ يمدح في سلمان وسفر ورد ، فأنت غضبت يا شيخ وذكرت هذه الكلمة أنا أقول الشيخ كان غضبان. ( أي الشيخ ربيع وهذا إحسان ظن من فريد) .
فرد عليه ربيع المدخلي :اسمع، اسمع أنا اللي أقوله بيني وبينك ، لا تقوله لأحد قدام الناس ،
فريد المالكي : والله ياشيخ .....
فرد المدخلي مقاطعا : ...... من أول مرة وثاني مرة توقف، شوفني أنا، بعدين بيني وبينك! ، أنت تبغي الكلام اللي بينك وبين ترحيب بينك وبينو ، وأنت الآن تنشرني في المجالس ، فلا تنشرني – شوف بارك الله فيك - الآن انت اسمعني...." انتهى


al-Imam al-Madkhali's Jarh on Ibn Jibrin:
ليس بعالم ، ضيع دينه وإسلامه ، يحارب بالأقمار الصناعية ، لا يصنف في السلفيين ولا العلماء ، شرشحه يا فريد


Listen to the audios yourself as attached to this post.

Can some good brother please translate it for a non-Arabic speaking enthusiastic Salafis?

[Abuz Zubair]

as salaamu alaykum,

abuz zubayr what would be the view on shaykh rabee? The reason i ask is because we see some praise by shaykh al albaani rahimahullah ibn uthaymeen rahimahullah and others of shaykh rabee. But then again we have other ulama warning him about his harshness and injustice when criticizing individuals
You need to live in Saudi to understand what's called the mujamala culture. They don't like to speak about each other disparagingly, which is why many of them are still silent over Salman al-'Awda's new ways. Moreover, they don't even realise the damage this man has done to the Western da'wah. Western Madkhalis are the worst of the lot and most of these mashaykh haven't a clue. And even if they did, I doubt they will criticise anyone by name openly. Some can't bear it and do criticise him openly.

al-Albani's praise of al-Madkhali is probably a reaction to his negative attitude towards Salman and Safar. But his comment about hamil liwa al-jarh wal-ta'deel is beyond ridiculous. Mind you, he himself considers Madkhali to be very shallow - in his own words. Obviously, he only commented on Rabi's words about Qutb not knowing it was Rabi' he was talking about!

[Adeel]

This is the first time I am speaking against him! He has really become a laughing stock! The Jara'h on Ibn Baaz being the most stupid of all! More I try to remain quiet on this man, more things I come across against this man! Justabro this was the much needed thread you know why because I wanted to know how much the people who rant and shout the most to be a Salafi are away from the true Salafiyyah.?


al-Albani's praise of al-Madkhali is probably a reaction to his negative attitude towards Salman and Safar.

So brother Abuz Zubair, you mean there was something between Al Albani and Safar, Salman? What was it I will love to know.

[abu_ibrahim]

So brother Abuz Zubair, you mean there was something between Al Albani and Safar, Salman? What was it I will love to know.

The book Dhaahirat ul Irjaa'

[Abuz Zubair]

Well, Sh Safar's remarks about Sh al-Albani's view of Iman to begin with, and then Sh Salman's 'Ikhwani' tendencies, I guess. justabro would tell you more.

[Adeel]

Well, Sh Safar's remarks about Sh al-Albani's view of Iman to begin with, and then Sh Salman's 'Ikhwani' tendencies, I guess. justabro would tell you more.

Brother Abuz Zubair, what I have come across is that, Sheikh Albani's view on Iman is contradictory. Is that correct?

[Abuz Zubair]

Brother Abuz Zubair, what I have come across is that, Sheikh Albani's view on Iman is contradictory. Is that correct?
Perhaps, this is what Abu Ruhayyim and Shaqra seem to conclude.

[anam]

Hear so much about his name yet so little about him as everything is in Arabic

Anyways ..didn't he [does he] have dodgy views on Emaan/Kufr?

[anam]

What about Ali Halabi and Ubayd Al Jabiri

Haven't we been advised to abandon them ?


Yet in the west they are still famous [among others]

its funny they are not murjis but Abu Qattadah is a big khariji

now there getting what Allaah promised them for all the curroption and hardship

[melo061]

The book Dhaahirat ul Irjaa'


does he single out Al-bani in that book? My father has that book in his library but my arabic is not good enough to read it.

[justabro]

You can never refute him, alhamdulillah, he had an excellent understanding of the manhaj of this religion, not to mention his mastery of aqeeda related issues. All your endeavors will prove to be futile and wasted with regard to refuting the Imam of Jarh wa't tadeel.
Your comic relief is much appreciated...

Jarh wa'l-Ta'dil is the science of critiquing narrators of hadith. If there's anyone today who is an expert in it, it is Abu 'l-Hasan al-Ma'ribi, as witnessed to by his excellent and brilliant work on the topic, Shifa' al-`Alil. In the introduction to this brilliant work, Sh. Muqbil praised it greatly, saying that he has not left any room for anyone to come and write on this topic after him.

What has your beloved imam of jarh wa't tabdee done?

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

This page was put together buy some brothers who have a deep interest( or addiction) in refuting rabee' al-Madkhali.
http://www.alathary.org/rabee/Where you been at bro ?

[justabro]

does he single out Al-bani in that book? My father has that book in his library but my arabic is not good enough to read it.

He points out some of his mistakes in the topic, but was respectful and urged Sh. al-Albani to reconsider his views/statements on the subject.

[justabro]

Well, Sh Safar's remarks about Sh al-Albani's view of Iman to begin with, and then Sh Salman's 'Ikhwani' tendencies, I guess. justabro would tell you more.

He did criticize Salman and Abdur-Rahman Abdul-Khaliq, saying that while they are Salafi in Aqidah, they are Ikhwani in manhaj. In Abdur-Rahman Abdul-Khaliq's case, it has to do with involvement in the political system in Kuwait. It should be noted however that while Sh. al-Albani did criticize them - whether he was right or wrong - he didn't actually seem to deem these issues as issues of al-Wala wa'l-Bara' the way that Rabee and co. would.

In fact, I remember, in one of his tapes, Sh. al-Albani mentions that there are some from our brothers in the Hijaz, who are close to us in most regards, although we may not agree with their manhaj in all respects, in these days, we should not be too picky.

In the tapes of al-Huwayni's meeting with Sh. al-Albani, he actually reads out some passages from one of Rabee's refutations of Syed Qutb, to which Sh. al-Albani reacted in disgust and said, "This is jahl." Al-Huwayni protested, "But this is from the book of Dr. Rabee." Al-Albani basically told him, never you mind that, and then gave him a lecture that in his view, he (i.e. al-Huwayni) - and shabab like him - had fallen into a sort of deviation (inhiraf), with their chasing after the mistakes of others.

As for the shubha of scholars praising Rabee, it's not really a big deal. In Sh al-Uthaymin's case, it's just humbleness. Whatever the case, it doesnt seem Sh. al-Uthaymin ever read the works of Syed Qutb, nor the refutations of al-Madkhali. In fact, even in the case of Sh. al-Albani, I'm certain he never read Rabee al-Madkhali's refutations, and certainly not in entirety, as he was simply too busy.

This business of scholars being praised being used to exonerate him of his actions is nothing more than a smokescreen. Truth be told, Sh. Safar himself has done something similar. Back in the days when problems between him and Rabee first started, Rabee once came to his circle. In spite of that, Sh. Safar sat on the floor with the rest of his students and gave the chair to Rabee. Clearly, this was just out of Sh. Safar's humbleness. Is anyone going to infer from this therefore that Sh. Safar also agrees with Rabee about... himself! What's more, since the time that Rabee first attacked him until now, Sh. Safar has not said anything in response, nor does he care to.

[justabro]

I can't believe you have done this!

But seeing as you have, I think you should start off with who he is, what he has done (good and bad), what 'madkhalism' is, how it has so many offshoots, the damage it has done to the da'wah, and then, finally, a proposed solution to the crisis...

you would well be worth a phd by that time...

Well, he's 78 years old, graduated from Madinah University, then went on to Master's and PhD in Hadith.

His master's was an assessment of those hadiths of Sahih Muslim that were critiqued by al-Daraqutni. It is a decent work, but he has some blunders in there. [More on that later]

His PhD was to do tahqiq of al-Nukat Ala Kitab ibn al-Salah, by ibn Hajar. Again, a decent work, but it seems that he made a good share of mistakes in reading the manuscripts. That's not that unusual though as this is common with Master's/PhD students, especially as they are usually doing tahqiq of manuscripts for the first time. Again, nothing groundbreaking here except that the text itself is quite an important one.

The only other works related to hadith sciences that he's actually written are, in fact, refutations, most of them quite lousy. Actually, come to think of it, in his refutation of al-Malibari, he actually declares that al-Malibari is seeking to destroy the Sunnah because he holds an opinion that Rabee himself endorsed in his Master's thesis!

Otherwise, he has a good number of refutations on Syed Qutb, Abul-Hasan al-Ma'ribi, Abdur-Rahman Abdul-Khaliq, Salman al-Awdah, Adnan Ar'ur, al-Maghrawi, al-Malibari and others. In the case of al-Malibari, he published a refutation of a discussion that occurred in a private exchange of letters, effectively making him famous. At least something good came out of his refutations. In the case of Abu'l-Hasan and al-Malibari, both of them tore him to shreds in their responses to his attacks.

In the case of Adnan Ar'ur, Sh. Muqbil was still alive when Rabee criticized him, but Sh. Muqbil refused to accept his criticism as was reported to me by a brother who was in his camp. In fact, this brother witnessed a dialogue between Muqbil and Yahya al-Hujuri, in which Sh. Muqbil insisted that if Yahya al-Hujuri was going to disparage Sh. Adnan, he should call him right then and there and speak to him directly about his so-called "issues". Al-Hujuri became upset and refused.

Almost Forgot

He was the head of the hadith department in Madinah University. Since that time, it has been known as a hotbed for Madkhali thinking. Non-Madkhali students generally avoid it now because of the bias of many of the instructors and students.

[Abuz Zubair]

Wow, I didn't realise he is 78!

Here is another good link by brother aboo ahmad. This is Sh Abd al-Aziz Aal al-Shaykh on the Madkhalis:

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=123134&postcount=59

[justabro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFxpjpYP36w

(From Abu S) Saudi mufti, 'Abd al-'Aziz Al ash-Shaykh, being asked about something in 'Fi Dhilal al-Qur'an,' and he ended up going on a four-minute defense of Sayyid Qutb and his books. Among other things, he said that those who interpret some of Sayyid's words to contain Shirk, Wahdat al-Wujud, mocking of the Prophets, etc., they only interpret his words this way because Sayyid's style of writing is too advanced for their understanding

Btw, how does one post a video here directly?

[Abuz Zubair]

On the Youtube website every clip has embed code. Simply copy and paste that embed code.

[justabro]

al-Imam al-Madkhali's Jarh on Ibn Baz:

قال فريد فريد المالكي مخاطبا ربيع المدخلي :
" لحظة يا شيخ، أنا يا شيخ سمعتك يوم - والله يشهد والملائكة والناس أجمعين - ونحن في المطار ؛ قلت ياشيخ : الشيخ ابن باز طعن في السلفية طعنة شديدة؛ لو أنا يا شيخ مسكت التلفون داخل المملكة ، الشيخ ربيع يطعن في ابن باز الشيخ ربيع يطعن في ابن باز ، هذا يا شيخ ويش رأيك فيه ؟! ترضى هذا مني؟!

فرد عليه ربيع قائلاً : وأنا وأش أقصد ، عرفت أنا وأش أقصد ؟!
فريد المالكي : أنا فاهم قصدك ، لشان كدة مانشرت ! لكن لو أنا رُحت وقلت : الشيخ طعن في ابن باز ، ما رأيك ياشيخ في هذا ؟!
واش رأيك ياشيخ في هذا ؟!
فقال ترحيب الدوسري : فعلاً هذه دعوى عريضة !!؟
فقال ربيع المدخلي : أسمع ، أسمع ، أنا قصدت أي شيء !؟
فقال فريد المالكي : أنا عارف قصدك ياشيخ ! أنا عارف قصدك!
فقال ربيع المدخلي: ويش هو قصدي؟
قال فريد المالكي : الشيخ ما يعلم مو داري بالموضوع .
فقال ربيع المدخلي: لكن تخبرني ويش هو الطعن اللي قلته أنا إيش اقصد؟
فقال فريد: لمّا التقيت بالشيخ عبدالعزيز ، وأخذ يمدح في سلمان وسفر ورد ، فأنت غضبت يا شيخ وذكرت هذه الكلمة أنا أقول الشيخ كان غضبان. ( أي الشيخ ربيع وهذا إحسان ظن من فريد) .
فرد عليه ربيع المدخلي :اسمع، اسمع أنا اللي أقوله بيني وبينك ، لا تقوله لأحد قدام الناس ،
فريد المالكي : والله ياشيخ .....
فرد المدخلي مقاطعا : ...... من أول مرة وثاني مرة توقف، شوفني أنا، بعدين بيني وبينك! ، أنت تبغي الكلام اللي بينك وبين ترحيب بينك وبينو ، وأنت الآن تنشرني في المجالس ، فلا تنشرني – شوف بارك الله فيك - الآن انت اسمعني...." انتهى



This is found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqnUPoyM4fw&feature=related

[justabro]

Ibn Uthaymin On Whether or Not Safar al-Hawali is a Khariji

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[Adeel]

What you all were waiting for all these days?!

[Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari]

Let us return to the subject: what is wrong with him?

Is it his Aqeeda? What is it exactly that he wrote wrong Islamically? What statements of his are Islamically incorrect?

[Abu Maryam PK]

In fact, even in the case of Sh. al-Albani, I'm certain he never read Rabee al-Madkhali's refutations, and certainly not in entirety, as he was simply too busy.


http://www.rabee.net/show_pic.aspx?id=9

justabro, ur comments are welcome. Basically the scan from (allegedly) Albani says that whatever rabee has produced in his refutation of sayyid qutb is correct.

PS: it was the result of google search. Actually i was looking for an audio to be pasted soon, insha'Allah

[Abu Maryam PK]

also, since i already stumbled upon the link, what do u make of the scans here:
http://www.rabee.net/pics.aspx

Some of them are praises of him or his works, but others are stretching the point, since they r merely asking him to furnish his books, as in sh ibn baz's letters.

[justabro]

The definition of Madkhalism

Firstly, as they say, لا مشاحة في الاصطلاح!

This term is generally used to apply to the followers of Rabee al-Madkhali, as well as the splinter groups thereof, including those of them who actually despise Rabee al-Madkhali. You might ask, how can that be?

Well, amongst the Madkhalis themselves, they use the term Haddadi for those of their own kind that they see as being extreme. The term is an attribution to a fellow named Haddad who was a member of Rabee's circle. He took Rabee's manhaj of jarh wa'l-ta'dil to its logical conclusions and declared that the works of ibn Hajar and al-Nawawi ought to be burned. At this point, a number of scholars stepped in and refuted him, amongst them Sh. Muqbil. Sh. Muqbil, as he has mentioned in various places, also was harsh with Rabee for allowing this mess, and threatened him that he should also join in taking down Haddad. Rabee did so and thus the Haddadiyyah were born.

Later, when almost the exact same scenario played out with Rabee's former right-hand man Falih al-Harbi, Rabee took part in taking him down as well, and so the Neo-Haddadis were born. Keep in mind here that Falih al-Harbi also despises the so-called "Haddadis", but this did not spare him from being labeled Haddadi.

In any case, those groups which have split off from Rabee and now despise their former cult leader, or at the least, feel lukewarm towards him, I think it is still accurate to describe them as Madkhali, as they still generally share the same worldview and mentality.

Defining Characteristics of Madkhalis

(1) Anyone who criticizes the rulers or is deemed to be doing so is labeled Khariji.
(2) Anyone who makes Takfir of secularist governments is dubbed a Takfiri.
(3) Anyone who disagrees with them or is seen to be associating with innovators/hizbis is himself an innovator/hizbi, or at the least, there are question marks concerning his "manhaj". (note: some of them are more consistent in applying this principle than others. Rabee, for his part, seems to be quite Machiavellian about it. He attacked some for refusing to take a position on Abul-Hasan, and defended others - namely: Abdul Malik Ramadani - because of his loyalty to Rabee)

On a side note, Ramadani has made excuses for some of the crazy, wacky things that Rabee says on the grounds that he is diabetic, and when his blood sugar gets unstable, he doesn't know what he is saying. An interesting theory, with perhaps a kernel of truth to it, but his refutations of Syed Qutb, al-Malibari, and Abul Hasan all reveal an element of calculated deception, which makes it almost impossible to excuse him on these grounds.

[justabro]

http://www.rabee.net/show_pic.aspx?id=9

justabro, ur comments are welcome. Basically the scan from (allegedly) Albani says that whatever rabee has produced in his refutation of sayyid qutb is correct.

PS: it was the result of google search. Actually i was looking for an audio to be pasted soon, insha'Allah

Even supposing Sh. al-Albani read his refutations in full and approved of them, the problem is that Rabee presents distorted realities and then proceeds to refute them. He has done this in all of his refutations that I have read in detail: Syed Qutb, al-Malibari, Abul Hasan. This would only come out when going back and checking the original works of those whom he refutes.

[justabro]

Even supposing Sh. al-Albani read his refutations in full and approved of them, the problem is that Rabee presents distorted realities and then proceeds to refute them. He has done this in all of his refutations that I have read in detail: Syed Qutb, al-Malibari, Abul Hasan. This would only come out when going back and checking the original works of those whom he refutes.

This is not to say that Syed Qutb's works are free of mistakes.

[Abu Maryam PK]

Here is the audio from sh albani about sayyid qutub
http://download.media.islamway.com/lessons/nasser//saeed_qotob.rm
http://www.islam2all.com/vb/showpost-p_36519-postcount_1.html
I think it is a balanced approach to his books [i have not read any of them]. Basically he says he was not a scholar and hence cud not be trusted for shar'ii terminologies and hence can be excused, but otherwise he was an islamic writer, having sense of honor for muslims, wanting an islamic state, and those who killed him were enemies of islam.
Of course this is not something u wud hear from the 'madkhali' camp. I actually forwarded this about 2 years ago to a 'madkhalist' saudi fruend, and he made the most profound of statements: "ask sh 'ali al-halabi at his email [which i dont have to this day]and dont listen to deviant sites!"

[aboo ahmad]

I think the beautiful thing about a scholar, when he refutes a fellow muslim, whether a scholar or a layman, he does not show hate or wish harm upon that individual who is termed 'misguided' on certain issues.

[Abu Maryam PK]

لا مشاحة في الاصطلاح

why not? madkhali, haddadi are both tribes. its not like pakistan where u can be a sayyid one day and farooqi the next. the kids are born with these tribe-names. Imagine a madkhali (born in the madkhali tribe) or haddadi kid being jeered at school because of being remotely related to a man they disagree with.

[justabro]

لا مشاحة في الاصطلاح

why not? madkhali, haddadi are both tribes. its not like pakistan where u can be a sayyid one day and farooqi the next. the kids are born with these tribe-names. Imagine a madkhali (born in the madkhali tribe) or haddadi kid being jeered at school because of being remotely related to a man they disagree with.

Groups are frequently attributed to their founders... just look through any book on Firaq

in fact, look at the Ash'aris, the Ash'aris were a Yemeni tribe. In fact, Abul Hasan al-Ash'ari was descended from Abu Musa al-Ash'ari.

[justabro]

Well, he's 78 years old, graduated from Madinah University, then went on to Master's and PhD in Hadith.

His master's was an assessment of those hadiths of Sahih Muslim that were critiqued by al-Daraqutni. It is a decent work, but he has some blunders in there. [More on that later]

His PhD was to do tahqiq of al-Nukat Ala Kitab ibn al-Salah, by ibn Hajar. Again, a decent work, but it seems that he made a good share of mistakes in reading the manuscripts. That's not that unusual though as this is common with Master's/PhD students, especially as they are usually doing tahqiq of manuscripts for the first time. Again, nothing groundbreaking here except that the text itself is quite an important one.

The only other works related to hadith sciences that he's actually written are, in fact, refutations, most of them quite lousy. Actually, come to think of it, in his refutation of al-Malibari, he actually declares that al-Malibari is seeking to destroy the Sunnah because he holds an opinion that Rabee himself endorsed in his Master's thesis!

Otherwise, he has a good number of refutations on Syed Qutb, Abul-Hasan al-Ma'ribi, Abdur-Rahman Abdul-Khaliq, Salman al-Awdah, Adnan Ar'ur, al-Maghrawi, al-Malibari and others. In the case of al-Malibari, he published a refutation of a discussion that occurred in a private exchange of letters, effectively making him famous. At least something good came out of his refutations. In the case of Abu'l-Hasan and al-Malibari, both of them tore him to shreds in their responses to his attacks.

In the case of Adnan Ar'ur, Sh. Muqbil was still alive when Rabee criticized him, but Sh. Muqbil refused to accept his criticism as was reported to me by a brother who was in his camp. In fact, this brother witnessed a dialogue between Muqbil and Yahya al-Hujuri, in which Sh. Muqbil insisted that if Yahya al-Hujuri was going to disparage Sh. Adnan, he should call him right then and there and speak to him directly about his so-called "issues". Al-Hujuri became upset and refused.



Almost Forgot

He was the head of the hadith department in Madinah University. Since that time, it has been known as a hotbed for Madkhali thinking. Non-Madkhali students generally avoid it now because of the bias of many of the instructors and students.

[aboo ahmad]

Justabro, I heard the students from Madinah who get titled 'Madakhalis' talk against Umm ul Qura, is this true?

[justabro]

Justabro, I heard the students from Madinah who get titled 'Madakhalis' talk against Umm ul Qura, is this true?

Allahu A'lam, you'd have to ask them.

It is true that one of their prominent students at Umm al-Quraa said that there are only three Salafi teachers in the faculty: Wasiyullah Abbas and the two Bazmul brothers.

[aboo ahmad]

Anyway, it does not matter. May Allaah guide us!

[Yasir]

You need to live in Saudi to understand what's called the mujamala culture. They don't like to speak about each other disparagingly, which is why many of them are still silent over Salman al-'Awda's new ways. A little off topic, but how is the mujamala culture any different to the course of action adopted by those that refuse to correct/advise Usama Hasan over his errors? (Or do they not even consider them to be errors in private?)

The fact that this has become a culture amongst the Saudi scholars is a little odd as they have always spoken harshly (sometimes a little too harshly) against anyone outside their ranks, so it just seems they adopt a gentler approach/tend to brush things aside with their ‘own’ – something which is not extended to their opponents?His master's was an assessment of those hadiths of Sahih Muslim that were critiqued by al-Daraqutni. It is a decent work, but he has some blunders in there. [More on that later]Do you happen to know if this (‘Baynal-Imamayn Muslim wad-Darqutni’) is available in print/who the publishers are? Dr. Mahmood at-Tahhaan cites it in his book somewhere in reference to the discussion about Sahih Muslim.It is true that one of their prominent students at Umm al-Quraa said that there are only three Salafi teachers in the faculty: Wasiyullah Abbas and the two Bazmul brothers.Is it down to two now since Sh. Wasiullah visited MJAH in the UK and spoke against SPubs and AK?

[Abu Maryam PK]

Do you happen to know if this (‘Baynal-Imamayn Muslim wad-Darqutni’) is available in print/who the publishers are? Dr. Mahmood at-Tahhaan cites it in his book somewhere in reference to the discussion about Sahih Muslim.
http://www.rabee.net/show_des.aspx?pid=4&id=139
http://www.rabee.net/show_des.aspx?pid=3&id=79
http://www.dahar.net/vb/showthread.php?t=18848

[Abu Maryam PK]

BTW, what is sh rabi's stance on sh albani's weakening of abuz zubayr's narration in muslim?

[Yasir]

JZK for the links Br. Abu Maryam.
The last time I tried the rabee.net site for a soft copy of the book, the download links were corrupt.

The rabee.net links have only the muqaddimah and khaatimah of the book? The dahar.net link doesn’t seem to be functioning.

[Abu Ikrimah]

Allahu A'lam, you'd have to ask them.

It is true that one of their prominent students at Umm al-Quraa said that there are only three Salafi teachers in the faculty: Wasiyullah Abbas and the two Bazmul brothers.

Shaykh Wasiyullah and the Bazmool Brothers...

Sounds like a rock band.

[Abu Maryam PK]

J

The rabee.net links have only the muqaddimah and khaatimah of the book? The dahar.net link doesn’t seem to be functioning.
cudnt find it anywhere myself, i mean the whole book. i did start reading the muqaddimah, but cudnt get past a few pages, due to my fickle attention

[Abu Maryam PK]

Shaykh Wasiyullah and the Bazmool Brothers...

Sounds like a rock band.
what's their latest album called? UQ Unplugged in Mekkah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV_Unplugged_in_New_York)?

[justabro]

<object width="425" height="344"><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Rxc2SlsvlOU&hl=en&fs=1"></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FYwOU-MmTes&hl=en&fs=1"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GxSmw8Zb6zs&hl=en&fs=1"></embed></object>

[Abuz Zubair]

A little off topic, but how is the mujamala culture any different to the course of action adopted by those that refuse to correct/advise Usama Hasan over his errors? (Or do they not even consider them to be errors in private?)

There is more than mujamala going on here. There is a lot of politics involved, too.

The fact that this has become a culture amongst the Saudi scholars is a little odd as they have always spoken harshly (sometimes a little too harshly) against anyone outside their ranks, so it just seems they adopt a gentler approach/tend to brush things aside with their ‘own’ – something which is not extended to their opponents? Well, if 'their own' were to cross the line into bid'a and shirk I am sure they would be as harsh. But yes, you are right. Their attitude is that Sunnis shouldn't be fighting amongst each other. Sh Ibn Baz's efforts were always geared towards uniting people, and attacking Rabi or Safar would have defeated that purpose.

Shaykh Wasiyullah and the Bazmool Brothers...

Sounds like a rock band.

LOL!

[Abu Ikrimah]

Where do the Jordanians (Alhalabi, Alhilali, et al.) fit in to all of this?

Is it fair to call them and their followers madkhalis?

If so, then why?

[ammardiwan]

I don't know if this has been covered in the past 6 pages, but could someone provide a description of the differences between madhkali and mainstream Salafism (suroori)

[hearandobey]

Where do the Jordanians (Alhalabi, Alhilali, et al.) fit in to all of this?

Is it fair to call them and their followers madkhalis?

If so, then why?

i'd like to know this too.

also, should we support an islamic centre in our community even though we know that the people that run it are the followers of the jordanian lot?

[justabro]

Where do the Jordanians (Alhalabi, Alhilali, et al.) fit in to all of this?

Is it fair to call them and their followers madkhalis?

If so, then why?

Personally, I think so, even though they are not so enthusiastic about him as they used to be, they made great efforts in promoting him and his ideology. To be honest, they were at the forefront in that respect in the West. So even though they've had a bit of a falling out with him (they have patched up apparently, but things will probably never be the same as in the golden age of Madkhalism), and alot of their followers are probably not very fond of him anymore. The principles are still generally the same, and they are the same principles which they originally took from al-Madkhali. Therefore, I don't see much difference between them.

Additionally, alot of the American brothers in Makkah who seem to be cool with Rabee now and are willing to attend his lessons had actually taken the Halabi/Hilali side when the Great Madkhali Inquisition took place.

[Abu Ikrimah]

jazak Allahu khayran for that.

things will probably never be the same as in the golden age of Madkhalism.

Could you please enlighten us regarding this age?

Why was it such a definitive period in history?

Any incidents worthy of mention?

[hearandobey]

justabro, from your experiences with madkhalis, what do you think of the following:


also, should we support an islamic centre in our community even though we know that the people that run it are the followers of the jordanian lot?

[asharee_salafi]

sorry, in a rush...

can someone tell me about syed qutb and his supposed mockery of the Prophet Musa AS and other such accusations. I think this has gone overlooked in the thread right?

thanks.

[Abdullah Abbas]

well lets start with a detailled refutation?

[Abu Faaris Al-Atharee]

Where you been at bro ?


And As-Salamu 'alaykum to you too Shaykhi

Check you on messenger.

[Tisatashar]

sorry, in a rush...

can someone tell me about syed qutb and his supposed mockery of the Prophet Musa AS and other such accusations. I think this has gone overlooked in the thread right?

thanks.


Couldn't be bothered tracking down the material. In a nutshell, Sayyid said Musa alayhis salam had a 'fiery character' or a 'hot temper' or similar, and sighted the brawl with the copt, lack of patience with the 'abd salih' known in the salafi english Qur'aans as "Khidr", as incident with a 'rock and clothes' and his reaction on returning to camp and finding 'bani israel' worshipping a calf and other incidents.

So Sayyid said in passing Musa alayhis salam had a 'hot temper' or a 'short wick'.

[anam]

I heard Rabee mocked some Sahaba ?


This is the problem

it's all what we hear, unless we know Arabic

so this thread should be more detailed IA

so we can make it a sticky and post on other forums for all the English speakers

[green musallah]

well lets start with a detailled refutation?

... on a pdf file?;)

[justabro]

I know there's alot to be dealt with still, but here is something interesting I stumbled across:

Passages of Fi Zilal al-Qur'an was read out to Sh. al-Barrak and he was much impressed with it, even though he had some criticisms of some things, and he said, "This man has been wronged greatly"

http://majles.alukah.net/showpost.php?p=53894&postcount=6

[justabro]

قال المستشار عبدالله العقيل في مجلة المجتمع العدد 112 تاريخ 8/8/1972 م : (( إن سيد قد بعث لإخوانه في مصر والعالم العربي أنه لا يعتمد سوى ستة مؤلفات له فقط وهي : هذا الدين , المستقبل لهذا الدين , الإسلام ومشكلات الحضارة , خصائص التصور الإسلامي , في ظلال القرآن , ومعالم في الطريق)..

وجواب الأستاذ محمد قطب على رسالة بهذا الخصوص نصها:
( الأخ الفاضل عبد الرحمن بن محمد الهرفي حفظه الله السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته سألتني عن كتاب ” العدالة الاجتماعية ” فأخبرك أن هذا أول كتاب ألفه بعد أن كانت اهتماماته في السابق متجهة إلى الأدب والنقد الأدبي وهذا الكتاب لا يمثل فكره بعد أن نضج تفكيره وصار بحول الله أرسخ قدماً في الإسلام .وهو لم يوصِ بقراءته إنما الكتب التي أوصى بقراءتها قبيل وفاته هي الظلال ( وبصفة خاصة الأجزاء الإثنا عشرة الأولى المعادة المنقحة وهي آخر ما كتب من الظلال على وجه التقريب وحرص على أن يودعها فكره كله ) معالم في الطريق ( ومعظمه مأخوذ من الظلال مع إضافة فصول جديدة ) و”هذا الدين” “والمستقبل” “لهذا الدين” ، “خصائص التصور الإسلامي” ، ومقومات التصور الإسلامي ( وهو الكتاب الذي نشر بعد وفاته ) “والإسلام ومشكلات الحضارة” ، أما الكتب التي أوصى بعدم قراءتها فهي كل ما كتبه قبل الظلال ، ومن بينها ” العدالة الاجتماعية ” ،أما كتاب “لماذا أعدموني ” فهو ليس كتاب إنما هو محاضر التحقيق التي أجريت معه في السجن الحربي ، حذفت منها الأسئلة التي وجهها إليه المحقق وبقيت الأجوبة ، وقد استخرجها محمد حسنين هيكل من ملفات السجن وباعها لجريدة الشرق الأوسط فنشرتها في جريدة المسلمون مجزأة ثم نشرتها في صورة كتاب ، ولما كنا لم نطلع على أصولها فلا نستطيع أن نحكم على مدى صحتها ومن المؤكد أنهم حذفوا منها ما يختص بالتعذيب (وقد اعترفت الجريدة بذلك ) أما الباقي فيحتمل صدوره عنه ولكن لا يمكن القطع بذلك وفضلاً عن ذلك فهذه التحقيقات كلها كانت تجري في ظل التعذيب . هذا جواب ما سألتني عنه . وبالله التوفيق . محمد قطب)

حتى لا يقال عن تراجع سيد انه غير مقبول نورد رد سماحة المفتي الشيخ عبد العزيز آل الشيخ على من عقب على كلامه عن سيد قطب وكتابه (في ظلال القرآن)
المفتي : والله أنا أقول طالب العلم إن قرأ به يستفيد ..الطالب يميز ،طالب العلم إذا قرأ في بعض المواضع حقيقة بعض المواضع فيها كتابا جيدا ، حدث أخطاء، ما أقول ما يسلم من الخطأ ،لكن ينبغي الإنصاف والاعتدال وأن لانـحمل ألفاظه فوق ما يـحتمله ، ما نـحمل الألفاظ فوق ما تـحتمله ، ولا نسيئ الظن .والرجل له – يعني – جهاد تعلمون أنه استشهد أو قتل شهيداً رحمه الله ، السائل :أحسن الله إليكم هذا يعقب على كلامكم قبل قليل عن تفسير سيد قطب وهل معناه الدعوة إلى قراءته من قبل المبتدئين في طلب العلم ؟وله كتب كان فيها أخطاء فتراجع عنها ، لأن القرآن ربما أن كتابة تفسير القرآن عدلت منهجه السابق ، والقرآن لاشك أن من اعتنى به وأكثرمن قراءته ينقله من حال إلى حال .. نعم . ا.هـ المحاضرة كاملة من موقع الدعوة الخيرية - كتاب التوحيد-الدرس السادس

The discussion about Musa (عليه السلام) was in his al-Taswir al-Fanni Fi al-Qur'an, a book that he wrote when he was still primarily interested in literature, and he wrote this work from that perspective. Remember, that before becoming an Islamist, he was a nationalist. When he wrote this work, he had not yet entered his Islamist stage. Before his death, he only advised that certain of his books be read, while disavowing his earlier writings, amongst them al-Taswir al-Fanni.

[asharee_salafi]

I heard Rabee mocked some Sahaba ?


This is the problem

it's all what we hear, unless we know Arabic

so this thread should be more detailed IA

so we can make it a sticky and post on other forums for all the English speakers

Well why dont we stop copy and pasting complex arabic posts and start doing them in english in the first place! It will help many of us arabic handicaps.

[asharee_salafi]

)



The discussion about Musa (عليه السلام) was in his al-Taswir al-Fanni Fi al-Qur'an, a book that he wrote when he was still primarily interested in literature, and he wrote this work from that perspective. Remember, that before becoming an Islamist, he was a nationalist. When he wrote this work, he had not yet entered his Islamist stage. Before his death, he only advised that certain of his books be read, while disavowing his earlier writings, amongst them al-Taswir al-Fanni.



Bro with respect, can you not paste loads of arabic stuff, many of us find it hard to make sense of. Pls tranlsate otherwise this thread is going to go out the window like the rest of them and people wont take much notice.

Question: so where did he disavow what he said? And is what he said wrong per say?

[Abuz Zubair]

Well why dont we stop copy and pasting complex arabic posts and start doing them in english in the first place! It will help many of us arabic handicaps.
Good idea... The problem is that many of us don't have the time to do translate. So those with a little bit of time on their hands and some skills, please take the liberty to translate or at least paraphrase to let the readers know what's going on. Thank you!

[Salah ad-Din]

al-Imam al-Madkhali's Jarh on Ibn Baz:

قال فريد فريد المالكي مخاطبا ربيع المدخلي :
" لحظة يا شيخ، أنا يا شيخ سمعتك يوم - والله يشهد والملائكة والناس أجمعين - ونحن في المطار ؛ قلت ياشيخ : الشيخ ابن باز طعن في السلفية طعنة شديدة؛ لو أنا يا شيخ مسكت التلفون داخل المملكة ، الشيخ ربيع يطعن في ابن باز الشيخ ربيع يطعن في ابن باز ، هذا يا شيخ ويش رأيك فيه ؟! ترضى هذا مني؟!

فرد عليه ربيع قائلاً : وأنا وأش أقصد ، عرفت أنا وأش أقصد ؟!
فريد المالكي : أنا فاهم قصدك ، لشان كدة مانشرت ! لكن لو أنا رُحت وقلت : الشيخ طعن في ابن باز ، ما رأيك ياشيخ في هذا ؟!
واش رأيك ياشيخ في هذا ؟!
فقال ترحيب الدوسري : فعلاً هذه دعوى عريضة !!؟
فقال ربيع المدخلي : أسمع ، أسمع ، أنا قصدت أي شيء !؟
فقال فريد المالكي : أنا عارف قصدك ياشيخ ! أنا عارف قصدك!
فقال ربيع المدخلي: ويش هو قصدي؟
قال فريد المالكي : الشيخ ما يعلم مو داري بالموضوع .
فقال ربيع المدخلي: لكن تخبرني ويش هو الطعن اللي قلته أنا إيش اقصد؟
فقال فريد: لمّا التقيت بالشيخ عبدالعزيز ، وأخذ يمدح في سلمان وسفر ورد ، فأنت غضبت يا شيخ وذكرت هذه الكلمة أنا أقول الشيخ كان غضبان. ( أي الشيخ ربيع وهذا إحسان ظن من فريد) .
فرد عليه ربيع المدخلي :اسمع، اسمع أنا اللي أقوله بيني وبينك ، لا تقوله لأحد قدام الناس ،
فريد المالكي : والله ياشيخ .....
فرد المدخلي مقاطعا : ...... من أول مرة وثاني مرة توقف، شوفني أنا، بعدين بيني وبينك! ، أنت تبغي الكلام اللي بينك وبين ترحيب بينك وبينو ، وأنت الآن تنشرني في المجالس ، فلا تنشرني – شوف بارك الله فيك - الآن انت اسمعني...." انتهى


al-Imam al-Madkhali's Jarh on Ibn Jibrin:
ليس بعالم ، ضيع دينه وإسلامه ، يحارب بالأقمار الصناعية ، لا يصنف في السلفيين ولا العلماء ، شرشحه يا فريد


Can some good brother please translate it for a non-Arabic speaking enthusiastic Salafis?


Farid al-Maliki said addressing Rabi'i al-Madkhali:
- Wait for a moment, o Shaikh! I heard you saying one day - and Allah, his Angels and the whole mankind witness for that - and we were in the aeroport and you said: "Shaikh Ibn Baz harmed salafi da'wa with a strong harm!" O Shaikh! If i had called inside the Kingdom of Saudi'a and said to people that "Shaikh Rabi'i attacked (verbally) Ibn Baaz, Shaikh Rabi'i attacked Ibn Baaz", how would you react to it? Would you accept it from me?"
Shaikh Rabi'i:
- What was my intention? Did you know my intention?
Farid al-Maliki:
- I understood your intention, that's why i didn't spread it further! But if I went ahead and said that "Shaikh reviled Ibn Baz", what would be your reaction?"
Rabi'i al-Madkhali:
- Listen! Listen! What was my intention?
Farid al-Maliki:
- I know your intention, o Shaikh! I know your intention!
Rabi'i al-Madkhali:
- And what's my intention?
Farid al-Maliki:
- Shaikh (i.e. Ibn Baz) doesn't know what is going on!
Rabi'i al-Madkhali:
- Inform me how the words that I spoke was a reproach? What was my intention?
Farid al-Maliki:- When you met with Shaikh Abdulaziz, he praised Salman and Safar and you became angry and mentioned these words. So I say that Shaikh was angry!
Rabi'i al-Madkhali:
-Listen! Listen! What i said stays between you and me! Dont mentioned it in public!
Farid al-Maliki:
- Wallahi, Shaikh...
al-Madkhali interrupts:
- From first time and second time, stop here! Look at me! It's between you and me! You want the conversation that is between me and you, between Tarhib and us, you want to spread about me now, don't spread it - barakallahu fik -now you should listen to me..."


Rabi'i al-Madkhali said about Ibn Jibreen:
"He is not a acholar, he has lost his religion and Islam, he fights via satellites and he is neither classified amongst salafis nor scholars. Dont bother yourself with him, o Farid!"


Excuse me for my poor translation!

[Abdullah Ali al Hanafi]

Rabi'i al-Madkhali said about Ibn Jibreen:
"He is not a acholar, he has lost his religion and Islam, he fights via satellites and he is neither classified amongst salafis nor scholars. Dont bother yourself with him, o Farid!"



references where did he make this statement ,

[asharee_salafi]

was this on tape?

[Salah ad-Din]

references where did he make this statement ,

Brother Abu Zubair has uploaded their recorded conversations, refer to the original words on the second page!


was this on tape?
yes!

[Salah ad-Din]

قال المستشار عبدالله العقيل في مجلة المجتمع العدد 112 تاريخ 8/8/1972 م : (( إن سيد قد بعث لإخوانه في مصر والعالم العربي أنه لا يعتمد سوى ستة مؤلفات له فقط وهي : هذا الدين , المستقبل لهذا الدين , الإسلام ومشكلات الحضارة , خصائص التصور الإسلامي , في ظلال القرآن , ومعالم في الطريق


"Chancellor Abdullah al-'Aqil said in "al-Mujtama'a" journal (number 112, date: 1972/8/8):
"Verily Sayyid had sent letters to his brothers in Egypt and to the arab countries that they should not rely on his books except these seven books: "Hadha ad-Din" (This is the religion), "al-Mustaqbal li hadhad-Din" (The future of this religion), "al-Islam wal-Mushkilat al-Hadhara" (Islam and cultural/social problems), "Khasais al-Tasawwar al-Islami" (The characteristics of Islamic conduct), "Fi Thilal al-Quran" and "Ma'alim at-Tariq" (milestones)."

[Abdullah Ali al Hanafi]

"Chancellor Abdullah al-'Aqil said in "al-Mujtama'a" journal (number 112, date: 1972/8/8):
"Verily Sayyid had sent letters to his brothers in Egypt and to the arab countries that they should not rely on his books except these seven books: "Hadha ad-Din" (This is the religion), "al-Mustaqbal li hadhad-Din" (The future of this religion), "al-Islam wal-Mushkilat al-Hadhara" (Islam and cultural/social problems), "Khasais al-Tasawwar al-Islami" (The characteristics of Islamic conduct), "Fi Thilal al-Quran" and "Ma'alim at-Tariq" (milestones)."

well in wich books did he made the unclear/strange statements?

[Abu Ikrimah]

"Shaikh Ibn Baz harmed salafi da'wa with a strong harm!"


lol!

That's Salafi English if ever I saw it!

[Salah ad-Din]

وجواب الأستاذ محمد قطب على رسالة بهذا الخصوص نصها
الأخ الفاضل عبد الرحمن بن محمد الهرفي حفظه الله السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته سألتني عن كتاب ” العدالة الاجتماعية ” فأخبرك أن هذا أول كتاب ألفه بعد أن كانت اهتماماته في السابق متجهة إلى الأدب والنقد الأدبي وهذا الكتاب لا يمثل فكره بعد أن نضج تفكيره وصار بحول الله أرسخ قدماً في الإسلام .وهو لم يوصِ بقراءته إنما الكتب التي أوصى بقراءتها قبيل وفاته هي الظلال ( وبصفة خاصة الأجزاء الإثنا عشرة الأولى المعادة المنقحة وهي آخر ما كتب من الظلال على وجه التقريب وحرص على أن يودعها فكره كله ) معالم في الطريق ( ومعظمه مأخوذ من الظلال مع إضافة فصول جديدة ) و”هذا الدين” “والمستقبل” “لهذا الدين” ، “خصائص التصور الإسلامي” ، ومقومات التصور الإسلامي ( وهو الكتاب الذي نشر بعد وفاته ) “والإسلام ومشكلات الحضارة” ، أما الكتب التي أوصى بعدم قراءتها فهي كل ما كتبه قبل الظلال ، ومن بينها ” العدالة الاجتماعية ” ،أما كتاب “لماذا أعدموني ” فهو ليس كتاب إنما هو محاضر التحقيق التي أجريت معه في السجن الحربي ، حذفت منها الأسئلة التي وجهها إليه المحقق وبقيت الأجوبة ، وقد استخرجها محمد حسنين هيكل من ملفات السجن وباعها لجريدة الشرق الأوسط فنشرتها في جريدة المسلمون مجزأة ثم نشرتها في صورة كتاب ، ولما كنا لم نطلع على أصولها فلا نستطيع أن نحكم على مدى صحتها ومن المؤكد أنهم حذفوا منها ما يختص بالتعذيب (وقد اعترفت الجريدة بذلك ) أما الباقي فيحتمل صدوره عنه ولكن لا يمكن القطع بذلك وفضلاً عن ذلك فهذه التحقيقات كلها كانت تجري في ظل التعذيب . هذا جواب ما سألتني عنه . وبالله التوفيق . محمد قطب

The answer of Ustadh Muhammad Qutb to a mail in this regard as stated below:
"Respected brother Abd ar-Rahman bin Muhammad al-Harfi, May Allah preserve you! Assalamu aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
You asked me abot the book "al-'Adala al-Ijtima'iyya" (Social Justice). I should inform you that it was the first book he authored when he was previously deeply interested in the literature and literary criticism. It does not represent his ideas when he had matured in reflection and when his thinking became only for Allah and when he had made a huge step into Islam.He himself did not recommend to read this book, those books that he recommended before his death to read are 1) "Fi Dhilal al-Quran"(especially the first twelve volumes that were revised and it was almost the last thing that he wrote from al-Thilal and he was eager to renew all his thoughts), 2) "Ma'alim fit-Tariq" (It's mostly taken from "al-Thilal", but he added some new chapters) 3) "Hadha ad-Din", 4) "al-Mustaqbal", 5) "Li hadha ad-Din" 6) "Khasais at-Tasawwur al-Islami" and "muqawwamat al-Tasawwur al-Islami" (and it's the book that was printed after his death) 7) "al-Islam wal-Mushkilat al-Hadhara", and as for the books that he discouraged from reading are all the books that he wrote before al-Thilal and amongst them is "al-'Adala al-Ijtimaiyya". As for the book "Limadha A'adamuni" (Why did they execute me), it's not a book, in reality it's records of an investigation conducted with him in a millitary prison, the questions posed by the investigator were omitted, but only answers were left there. Later Muhammad Husanein Heykal compiled it from the files of the prison and sold it to the newspaper "Sharq al-Awsat" (Middle East) and it was printed partially in the newspaper of muslims and later edited and printed in a book form. Because we couldn't get the original papers we could not tell how authentic were these papers. They have definitely omitted the records how he was tortured (and the newpaper admitted it) and as for the rest that is contained in these papers we can say that it's probably from him, but we can not be sure, especially when we know that these investigations were conducted by means of torture. It's my answer to your question. Wa billahi tawfiq.
Muhammad QUTB!

[Salah ad-Din]

lol!

That's Salafi English if ever I saw it!


well, akhi...english is not my native tongue! And especially when you try to translate it from arabic, it's very hard! I said that you may excuse my poor english!
But you get it in any way!

[Abu Ikrimah]

well, akhi...english is not my native tongue! And especially when you try to translate it from arabic, it's very hard! I said that you may excuse my poor english!
But you get it in any way!

Assalamu Alaykum!

Dear bro, please do not take any offense - you really are doing an excellent job and benefitting us immensely. May Allah reward you very generously!
- And please do continue

It was just silly joke on my part regarding literalism in translation, which all translators fall into once in a while (not that I know anything about the subject :D )

[Hamza]

yes please continue brothers, all of you; great job. JZK

[Salah ad-Din]

حتى لا يقال عن تراجع سيد انه غير مقبول نورد رد سماحة المفتي الشيخ عبد العزيز آل الشيخ على من عقب على كلامه عن سيد قطب وكتابه (في ظلال القرآن)
المفتي : والله أنا أقول طالب العلم إن قرأ به يستفيد ..الطالب يميز ،طالب العلم إذا قرأ في بعض المواضع حقيقة بعض المواضع فيها كتابا جيدا ، حدث أخطاء، ما أقول ما يسلم من الخطأ ،لكن ينبغي الإنصاف والاعتدال وأن لانـحمل ألفاظه فوق ما يـحتمله ، ما نـحمل الألفاظ فوق ما تـحتمله ، ولا نسيئ الظن .والرجل له – يعني – جهاد تعلمون أنه استشهد أو قتل شهيداً رحمه الله ، السائل :أحسن الله إليكم هذا يعقب على كلامكم قبل قليل عن تفسير سيد قطب وهل معناه الدعوة إلى قراءته من قبل المبتدئين في طلب العلم ؟وله كتب كان فيها أخطاء فتراجع عنها ، لأن القرآن ربما أن كتابة تفسير القرآن عدلت منهجه السابق ، والقرآن لاشك أن من اعتنى به وأكثرمن قراءته ينقله من حال إلى حال .. نعم . ا.هـ المحاضرة كاملة من موقع الدعوة الخيرية - كتاب التوحيد-الدرس السادس


The words of Mufti Abdulaziz Al ash-Shaikh about Seyyid Qutbs book "Fi Thilal al-Quran":
"Wallahi, a student of knowledge if he reads it he can benefit from it... a student who can see mistakes...if a student of knowledge reads some passages from this book, and in reality concerning some passages, this book is very good, there has been mistakes and i dont say that it's free from mistakes but one should be fair and just and we should not interpret his words and give them meanings that he did not intend. And we should not have prejudice. This man made jihad and as you know he became martyr or was killed as a martyr - rahimahullah -
Question to mufti: as a result from your words that you said before a while, does it mean that you call new students of knowledge to read this book?"
"He has books where he had some mistakes and he left these mistakes, because Quran... probably writing commentary on Quran made him leave his previous minhaj and no doubt that when you reflect upon the meaning of Quranand when you read it frequently, it changes you.."
"Kitab at-Tawhid", sixth lesson

[Salah ad-Din]

Actually Mufti Abdul'aziz has spoken about the issue in length. He was asked about "ahadiyyatul-wujub" in the books of S.Q. and he answered:
يا إخواني تفسير سيد قطب في ظلال القرآن هو كتاب ليس تفسير لكنه قال تحت ظلال القرآن يعني كأنه يقول للمسلمين هذا القرآن نظام الأمة تعيش في ظلاله و استقوا من آدابه و انهلوا من معينه الصافي وأقبلوا بقلوبكم على القرآن لتجدوا فيه علاج لمشاكلكم و حل قضاياكم وتفريج همومكم إلى آخره
"O, brothers! Commentary of Sayyid Qutb "fi Thilal al-Quran" is not a book of tafsir, rather he is saying: "in the shadow of Quran", i.e. he is likely saying to muslims that this Quran is a system for the Ummah to be followed. Live in it's shadow, take it's manners, drink from it's pure springs, turn your hearts to the Quran in order to find remedy for your problems and resolve your issues and relieve you from concerns and so on..."
and then he said:
والكتاب له أسلوب عال في السياق أسلوب عال ، هذا الأسلوب الذي كتب به السيد كتابه قد يظن بعض الناس بادئ بدء من بعض العبارات أن فيها شركا أو أن فيها قدحا في الأنبياء أو أن وأن .. ، ولو أعاد النظر في العبارة لوجدها أسلوبا أدبيا راقيا عاليا لكن لا يفهم هذا الأسلوب إلا من تمرس في قراءة كتابه ، والكتاب ... لايخلو من ملاحظات كغيره لا يخلو من ملاحظات و لا يخلو من أخطاء لكن في الجملة أن الكاتب كتبه منطلق غيرة وحمية للإسلام ، والرجل هو صاحب تربية وعلوم ثقافية عامة وماحصل منه من هذا التفسير يعتبر شيئا كثير .... فيؤخذ منه بعض المقاطع النافعة والمواقف الجيدة والأشياء التي أخطأ فيها يعلى ... عذره قلة العلم وأنه ليس من أهل التفسير لكنه صاحب ثقافة عامة وعباراته أحيانا يفهم منها البعض خطأ لأن أسلوبه فوق أسلوب من يقرأه ، فلو أعاد النظر مرارا لم يجد هذه الاحتمالات الموجود وإنما هو أسلوب من الأساليب العالية التي يتقاصر عنه فهم بعض الناس فربما أساء الظن ، والمسلم لا ينبغي ... على وجود المعايب ، فليأخذ الحق ممن جاء به
"and this book has a very high literary style and because Sayyid wrote his book in a such high literary style, some people (like al-Madkhali) assumed from first reading of some words that there is shirk or defilement of some prophets or ... if he had read these words once again he would find a very high and nobel literary style, this style is not understood except by those who is experienced/specialized in his books.
And the book...is not free from criticism as all other books, is not free from criticism and is not free from mistakes, but we say in a summary, the author wrote this book out of his ardour and passion for Islam... This man, he has well educated and he has general social and cultural knowledge. And as a whole one may benefit a lot from this book...one should take some beneficial passages and very good points and should leave his mistakes...he has excuse because of his shortcomings in knowledge and he is not a scholar of tafsir, rather he was educated in general intelectual sciences. Some people sometimes missunderstand his words, because his style is above the style of it's reader. If he had read it again and again, he would not find there any of these presumptions. Rather it has one of the best literary styles that some people have problems in comprehending, probably because of their prejudices, and it's not befitting a muslim to be unjust against a person because of his mistakes, but he should take the truth from whomever it comes."

http://www.islamgold.com/rmdata/155_1.rm

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum,

jazakallah khayr salah ad din! May Allaah brighten your face on the day of judgement and allow you to enter jannah without any reckoning.


Its amazing how you realize there are many other opinions than just the opinions of spuds and their troid buddies. Subhanallah you would think that all the ulama are sided with rabee ibn hadee al madkhali but then you see opinions of other ulama.

[Abdullah Ali al Hanafi]

can somone translate what albani said in favor of sayyid qutb

[Nooristan]

excellent thread.....

[Anikaa]

^ agreed.

I better start reading from page 1 to catch up properly, inshaaAllah. Also, it's such a civilised discussion :D al-humdulillaah.

[Anikaa]

Wow, I didn't realise he is 78!

Here is another good link by brother aboo ahmad. This is Sh Abd al-Aziz Aal al-Shaykh on the Madkhalis:

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=123134&postcount=59
That's a pretty good video.
I don't know if this has been covered in the past 6 pages, but could someone provide a description of the differences between madhkali and mainstream Salafism (suroori)
+1

Let us return to the subject: what is wrong with him?

Is it his Aqeeda? What is it exactly that he wrote wrong Islamically? What statements of his are Islamically incorrect?

+1

Farid al-Maliki said addressing Rabi'i al-Madkhali:
- Wait for a moment, o Shaikh! I heard you saying one day - and Allah, his Angels and the whole mankind witness for that - and we were in the aeroport and you said: "Shaikh Ibn Baz harmed salafi da'wa with a strong harm!" O Shaikh! If i had called inside the Kingdom of Saudi'a and said to people that "Shaikh Rabi'i attacked (verbally) Ibn Baaz, Shaikh Rabi'i attacked Ibn Baaz", how would you react to it? Would you accept it from me?"
Shaikh Rabi'i:
- What was my intention? Did you know my intention?
Farid al-Maliki:
- I understood your intention, that's why i didn't spread it further! But if I went ahead and said that "Shaikh reviled Ibn Baz", what would be your reaction?"
Rabi'i al-Madkhali:
- Listen! Listen! What was my intention?
Farid al-Maliki:
- I know your intention, o Shaikh! I know your intention!
Rabi'i al-Madkhali:
- And what's my intention?
Farid al-Maliki:
- Shaikh (i.e. Ibn Baz) doesn't know what is going on!
Rabi'i al-Madkhali:
- Inform me how the words that I spoke was a reproach? What was my intention?
Farid al-Maliki:- When you met with Shaikh Abdulaziz, he praised Salman and Safar and you became angry and mentioned these words. So I say that Shaikh was angry!
Rabi'i al-Madkhali:
-Listen! Listen! What i said stays between you and me! Dont mentioned it in public!
Farid al-Maliki:
- Wallahi, Shaikh...
al-Madkhali interrupts:
- From first time and second time, stop here! Look at me! It's between you and me! You want the conversation that is between me and you, between Tarhib and us, you want to spread about me now, don't spread it - barakallahu fik -now you should listen to me..."


Rabi'i al-Madkhali said about Ibn Jibreen:
"He is not a acholar, he has lost his religion and Islam, he fights via satellites and he is neither classified amongst salafis nor scholars. Dont bother yourself with him, o Farid!"


Excuse me for my poor translation!

This is very deep, subhanaAllaah! Is it true, though? Did he realllyyy say that?

[Turaabie]

Jazzaka-Allahu Khaire brother Salah ad-Din!

[asharee_salafi]

SalahuDeen,

May Allah reward you. May I please ask you:

In what you translated, did you get that from a video which is on youtube?? Also can I ask you, when you quoted the Mufti's words you put ( like madkhali) did the sheikh actually say this or was this your edition and explanation as to what you what he meant?

Keep up the excellent work.

BWT, its quotes like these that actually change my opinion on the saudi scholars like this sheikh, it actually makes me realise they are quite fair, balanced and free from zealousness. I think I have been overcome by the madkhalis to such a degree that you always have doubts upon these people, but reading these quotes does make me think...

[anam]

Salam aleykum

here are quotes from a student of knoledge Abu Hisam Otaybi, who mentionned a risalah called "Radul Aqwal lazi naqal Saleem Al Hilali 'an Kutub Sayd Qutb Sah Shaheed ila mathanuha Saheeha wa tasweebuha"

And this risalah is of 176 pages, in one page there is quote of Sayd Qutb and on other quote of Saleem Hilali.

And he gave an example, in the risalah love and Hate of Allah, and there are 14 lines that are same exactly as Tafseer fi Thilal Al Quran
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?t=38638&highlight=%C7%E1%D3%D1%DE%C7%CA+%C7%E1%DA%E1%E3%ED %C9

So the student of knowledge accused Hilali of stealing work of Sayd Qutb, as he did not refer to him...

And Ibrahim Shaqrah introduced this risalah...


http://www.siratemustaqeem.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4218&highlight=syed+qutb

[anam]

Salam aleykum

here are words of shaykh Rabee on Safar hawali telling Muhammad ibn hadi that Safar is his brother.

http://alathary.net/vb2/attachment.php?attachmentid=2229

[Salah ad-Din]

Shaikh Nasir ad-Din al-Albanis words about Sayyid Qutb:

السؤال الأول- وكلا السؤالين واردة من كتاب ( في ظلال القرآن)- ذكر صاحب كتاب (في ظلال القرآن)، في أول سورة (طه)، بأن القرآن ظاهرة كونية كظاهرة السماوات والأرض..
فما رأيكم في هذا الكلام، مع أنه صادر بكاف التشبيه يا شيخ؟؟

فأجاب الشيخ: محمد ناصر الدين الألباني-رحمه الله-:
نحن -يا أخي- قلنا أكثر من مرة أن سيد قطب- رحمه الله- ليس عالماً، وإنما هو رجل أديب ، كاتب، وهو لا يُحسن التعبير عن العقائد الشرعية الإسلامية، وبخاصة منها العقائد السلفية، ولذلك فلا ينبغي أن
ندندن حول كلماته كثيراً، لأنه لم يكن عالماً، بالمعنى الذي نحن نريده؛ عالماً بالكتاب والسنة، وعلى منهج السلف الصالح.
فهو في كثير من تعابيره، يعني تعابير إنشائية..بلاغية.. وليست تعابير علمية، وبخاصة تعابير سلفية..ليست من هذا الباب..
فنحن لا نتردد باستنكار مثل هذا التعبير، وهذا التشبيه، أقل ما يُقال فيه: أنه لا يعني أنه كلام الله حقيقة- كما هو عقيدة أهل السنة والجماعة..أو أنه كلام الله مجازاً- كما هو عقيدة المعتزلة-..
كلام خطابي شعري..
لكن أنا لا أرى أن نقف كثيراً عند مثل هذا الكلام، إلا أن نُبيِّن أنه كلام غير سائغ شرعاً، وغير معبِّر عن عقيدة الكاتب للقرآن الكريم، هل هو كلام الله حقيقة أم لا ؟ هذا الذي أعتقده، وهذا هو الجواب عن السؤال الأول.

السؤال الثاني- وهو في نفس الكتاب- وذلك في بداية سورة ( النبأ)، أو بالأصح: مقدمة سورة ( النبأ) ، قال عن القرآن، وكلمة في القرآن، أنه( تموجات موسيقية)؟؟

فقال الشيخ الألباني-رحمه الله-: نفس الجواب.
فقال السائل: هذا يقودنا يا شيخ إلى بعض التساؤل: نرى في كثير من كتابات بعض الكتّاب، أو من المنتسبين للعلم..
فقال الألباني-رحمه الله-: عفواً قبل ماتكمّل، ماذا فهمتَ أنت من قوله: تموجات؟؟ هل هو يعني الكلام الصادر من رب العالمين، أم هو من جبريل-عليه السلام-، أم من نبينا الكريم؟؟ ما تفهم لا هذا ولا هذا
ولا هذا !!.. ولذلك أنا بقول: كلام خطابي شعري، لا يُنبي عن رأي الكاتب وماذا يعنيه.. هكذا الحقيقة أكثر الكتّاب عندما يكتبون، يكتبون عبارات إنشائية خطابية، لا تعطي حقائق كونية واقعية.. طيّب كمّل.

فقال السائل: مع قولكم هذا يا شيخ-بارك الله فيكم- نرى كثير من الكتّاب، أو من طلاب العلم الذين تأثروا حتى بمنهج المحدثين، أو لهم مثلاً في علم الحديث، أو في علم بعض الأمور تأثروا بمنهجه..
فقال الشيخ الألباني-رحمه الله-: وما هو منهجه؟ وهل له منهج؟
فقال السائل: نعم، وهو التأثر بكتابات أبو الأعلى المودودي، في كلماته ،كثير من الكلمات، مثل كتابه(العدالة الاجتماعية)، وكتابه( التصوير الفني في القرآن)..
فقال الشيخ الألباني-رحمه الله-: هذا أسلوب أدبي، ليس أسلوباً علمياً.
فقال السائل: لا، هناك منهج خاصة في التكفير؛ تجهيل الأمة، وتكفيرها، وخاصة في كتاب( العدالةالاجتماعية).. وذكر عنه أيضاً صاحب كتاب: ( الأعلام) للزركلي، ذكر عنه هذا، وأنه كان –يعني- اتخذ
هذا المنهج وهو تجهيل الأمة بكاملها، تجهيل كل مَن حواليه، فتأثر بهذا المنهج كثير من الشباب الآن ،فأصبحوا يدعون لكتبه، ويدعون لآرائه، ولجميع ما كتبه، فما رأيكم يا شيخ في هذا؟؟
فقال الشيخ الألباني-رحمه الله-: رأينا أنه رجل غير عالم وانتهى الأمر!! ماذا تريد- يعني- أكثر منهذا؟!! إن كنتَ تطمع أن نكفِّره، فلستُ من المكفّرين، ولا حتى أنتَ أيضاً من المكفّرين..
لكن ماذا تريد إذاً؟؟!! يكفي المسلم المنصف المتجرِّد أن يُعطي كل ذي حق حقه، وكما قال تعالى:\" ولا تبخسوا الناس أشياءهم ولا تعثوا في الأرض مفسدين\". الرجل كاتب، ومتحمس للإسلام الذي يفهمه، لكن الرجل أولاً ليس بعالم، وكتاباته (العدالة الاجتماعية) هي من أوائل تآليفه، ولما ألّف كان محض أديب، وليس بعالم، لكن الحقيقة أنه في السجن تطوّر كثيراً، وكتب بعض الكتابات كأنها بقلم سلفي ليست منه.. لكن أنا أعتقد أن السجن يُربّي بعض النفوس، ويُوقض بعض الضمائر، فكتب كلمات، يعني يكفي عنوانه الذي يقول: (لا إله إلا الله، منهج حياة)، لا إله إلا الله منهج حياة.
لكن إذا كان هو لا يفرِّق بين توحيد الألوهية، وبين توحيد الربوبية، هذا لا يعني أنه لا يفهم توحيد الربوبية، وتوحيد الألوهية، وأنهما يجعلهما شيئاً واحداً.. لكن يعني أنه ليس فقيهاً، وليس عالماً، وأنه لا يستطيع أن يُعبّر عن المعاني الشرعية التي جاءت في الكتاب وفي السنة، لأنه لم يكن عالماً.

فقال السائل: ألا ترى –ياشيخ- مع هذا التأثر وهذه الأمور التي كتبها ، أن يُرد عليه؟
فقال الألباني- رحمه الله-: نعم يُرد عليه، ولكن بهدوء وليس بحماس..يُرد عليه، وهذا واجب.. ليس الرد على المخطيء محصوراً بشخص أو أشخاص.. كل من أخطأ في توجيه الإسلام بمفاهيم مبتدَعة، وحديثة ولا أصول لها في الكتاب ولا في السنة، ولا في سلفنا الصالح، والأئمة الأربعة المتبَعين؛ فهذا ينبغي أن يُرد عليه..
لكن هذا لا يعني أن نعاديه.. وأن ننسى أن له شيئاً من الحسنات!!
يكفي أنه رجل مسلم، ورجل كاتب إسلامي- على حسب مفهومه للإسلام كما قلتُ أولاً-،[غير واضح] وأنه قُتل في سبيل دعوته للإسلام، والذين قتلوه هم أعداء الإسلام..

Questioner:
- The first question - and both questions are taken from his book "Fi Thilal al-Quran", the author of the book mentioned in "Fi Thilal al-Quran" in the beginning of the surah "TaHa" that "The Quran is a cosmic phenomenon like the phenomenon of the Skies and the Earth". What is your opinion about these words, considering the fact that he made here a sufficient analogy (tashbih), o Shaikh?

Shaikh answered:
- My brother! We said it more than once that Sayyiq Qutb - rahimahullah - was not a scholar, he is a man of literature, writer and he is not knowledgable in terminology related to Islamic Shari'a, especially the words related to salafi aqida. That's why it's not appropriate to give so much attention to some separate words, because he was not a scholar, a scholar in a meaning that we intend , i.e.a scholar of Quran and Sunnah who was upon the minhaj of the righteous salaf.
The most of his words are... I mean literary, eloquent words and they are not terms related to islamic knowedge, let alone salafi terminology...his words are not of this type..
And we do not hesitate to reject such expressions and this analogy; I say what is to be said: it does not mean that it's the word of Allah in a literal meaning - as it's the belief of Ahl as-Sunnah - and it doesn't mean that it's the word of Allah in a figurative meaning - as in the doctrine of mu'tazila...
These are eloquent and poetic words...
But I dont see it necessary to concentrate on such words, but we just explain that using such expressions is not allowed in Shari'a. And it doesnt state clearly what is the authors belief regarding the Noble Quran, i.e. is it the true word of Allah or not?! That's what i believe and it's the answer for your first question.

Questioner:
- The second question - and it's from the same book - and it's in the beginning of the surah Naba', or to be more correct: it's in the introduction to the surah Naba'; where he said about Quran: that it's "musical waves"!!!

Shaikh al-Albani said:
- The same answer!

Questioner:
- O Shaikh! It leads us to some questions: we see on many writings of some writers or those who claim to have knowledge...

Shaikh al-Albani interrupts:
- Sorry! Before you continue--what did you understand from his word "waves" ? Does it mean that it's the word coming from Allah or it's from Jibreel - peace be upon him - or it's from our nobel prophet? What do you understand? not the first and not the second and not the last!!! That's why I tell you: These are eloquent poetic words and it doesnt give information about the authors belief and what he intended... it's the reality of many writers when they write, they wrote literary and eloquent words and it doesn't give you true reality...OK, continue...

Questioner:
- With these words of you, o Shaikh - barakallahu fikum - we see many writers and students of knowledge - and there are even people who are versed in the field of hadith - they are affected by his minhaj...

Shaikh al-Albani:
- And what is his minhaj? Has he got a minhaj?

Questioner:
- Yes, and it's affection to writings of Abu 'Ali al-Mawdudi...he cites his words, in many places, like in his book "al-'Adala al-'Ijtimaiyya" and his book "at-Taswir al-Fani fil-Quran"...

al-Albani:
It's a literary style and not an academic islamic style...

Questioner:
-No, he has a special minhaj regarding takfir! He call the whole Islamic nation a nation of jahiliyya and he regarded them as kuffar, especially in his book "al-'Adala al-'Ijtimaiyya"...and al-Zirikli, the author of the book "al-'Ilam" mentioned about him the same. He had this minhaj and it's calling the ummah a naton of jahiliyya, he considered all the people around him ignorant and now many of the youth are affected by this minhaj and they began calling to his books and they call to his beliefs and to all his writings. And what is your opinion about that, o Shaikh??

al-Albani:
- We think that this man was not a scholar and this issue ends here! What do you want more than that???? If your so covetous of me to make takfir upon him and I'm not from those who make takfir, and your not one of them either...But what do you want???? It's sufficient for a muslim who is fair and rightful to treat everyone justly, as Allahu Ta'ala said: ""And withhold not things justly due to men, nor do evil in the land, working mischief." The man is a writer, enthusiastic about Islam which he understood. But firstly this man is not a scholar and his book "al-'Adala al-'Ijtimaiyya" is amongst his first books. When he wrote this book he was just a man of literature, not a scholar. But the reality is that he changed a lot while he was in jail and he wrote some books as if these books were written by a salafi, and not by him...But I believe that the life in prison educates some souls and clears up conscience of some people. He wrote some books and titles of these books are sufficient: "La ilaha illa Allah, minhaj al-hayah" (la ilaha illa Allah, formula of life)...
But if he didn't make diffirence between "tawhid al-uluhiyyah" and "tawhid ar-rububiyyah", it doesn't mean that he had not understood "tawhid ar-rububiyyah" and "tawhid al-uluhiyyah", but he considered these two in one...it means that he was not a faqih and not a scholar and he was not able to use the terms that came with Quran and Sunnah, because he was not a scholar.

Questioner:
- O shaikh, don't you think that with all this affection and all these things that he wrote, we should refute him?

Shaikh al-Albani:
- Yes, he should be refuted, but with clear guidance, not with zeal..he should be refuted and it's important. Refutation of one who err is not limited to a person or personalities.Every person who make mistakes when he writes about Islam with innovated methods and without bases from the Quran and Sunnah and our righteous salaf and four imams that are followed, should be refuted.
But it doesnt mean that we become hostile to him...and that we forget all his good qualities!!! It's sufficient that he is a muslim and he is an islamic writer - as much as he understood from Islam as I said earlier - (unclear words) ...and he was killed for his calling to Islam and those who killed him were enemies of Islam.

LISTEN! (http://www.islamgold.com/rmdata/136_Albani_Sayed_qotob.rm)

[Salah ad-Din]

SalahuDeen,

May Allah reward you. May I please ask you:

In what you translated, did you get that from a video which is on youtube?? Also can I ask you, when you quoted the Mufti's words you put ( like madkhali) did the sheikh actually say this or was this your edition and explanation as to what you what he meant?



No, brother! look up on the second page of this thread and you will find the post of bro. Abu Zubair I took it from there and translated
P.S. though i wait for brothers who know better arabic to correct my mistakes, because mistakes are possible, especially when Rabi'i al-Madkhali did not speak (fusha) clear arabic there. :D

The word (like madkhali) is my addition..sorry for that, i didnt realize that it could give such an impression...

[suhail]

Great Just reponse from Shaikh Albani. Syed Qutb was a shaheed and a great slave of Allah (SWT). These people who belittle him and make big deal about his mistakes should be ashamed of themselves. This guy who they become so hostile against was honored by Allah(SWT) because he gave his life for this deen while these sick people keep eating his flesh. May Allah grant Syed Qutb and Shaikh Albani Jannah. Ameen.

[Abdullah Ali al Hanafi]

Shaikh Nasir ad-Din al-Albanis words about Sayyid Qutb:

السؤال الأول- وكلا السؤالين واردة من كتاب ( في ظلال القرآن)- ذكر صاحب كتاب (في ظلال القرآن)، في أول سورة (طه)، بأن القرآن ظاهرة كونية كظاهرة السماوات والأرض..
فما رأيكم في هذا الكلام، مع أنه صادر بكاف التشبيه يا شيخ؟؟

فأجاب الشيخ: محمد ناصر الدين الألباني-رحمه الله-:
نحن -يا أخي- قلنا أكثر من مرة أن سيد قطب- رحمه الله- ليس عالماً، وإنما هو رجل أديب ، كاتب، وهو لا يُحسن التعبير عن العقائد الشرعية الإسلامية، وبخاصة منها العقائد السلفية، ولذلك فلا ينبغي أن
ندندن حول كلماته كثيراً، لأنه لم يكن عالماً، بالمعنى الذي نحن نريده؛ عالماً بالكتاب والسنة، وعلى منهج السلف الصالح.
فهو في كثير من تعابيره، يعني تعابير إنشائية..بلاغية.. وليست تعابير علمية، وبخاصة تعابير سلفية..ليست من هذا الباب..
فنحن لا نتردد باستنكار مثل هذا التعبير، وهذا التشبيه، أقل ما يُقال فيه: أنه لا يعني أنه كلام الله حقيقة- كما هو عقيدة أهل السنة والجماعة..أو أنه كلام الله مجازاً- كما هو عقيدة المعتزلة-..
كلام خطابي شعري..
لكن أنا لا أرى أن نقف كثيراً عند مثل هذا الكلام، إلا أن نُبيِّن أنه كلام غير سائغ شرعاً، وغير معبِّر عن عقيدة الكاتب للقرآن الكريم، هل هو كلام الله حقيقة أم لا ؟ هذا الذي أعتقده، وهذا هو الجواب عن السؤال الأول.

السؤال الثاني- وهو في نفس الكتاب- وذلك في بداية سورة ( النبأ)، أو بالأصح: مقدمة سورة ( النبأ) ، قال عن القرآن، وكلمة في القرآن، أنه( تموجات موسيقية)؟؟

فقال الشيخ الألباني-رحمه الله-: نفس الجواب.
فقال السائل: هذا يقودنا يا شيخ إلى بعض التساؤل: نرى في كثير من كتابات بعض الكتّاب، أو من المنتسبين للعلم..
فقال الألباني-رحمه الله-: عفواً قبل ماتكمّل، ماذا فهمتَ أنت من قوله: تموجات؟؟ هل هو يعني الكلام الصادر من رب العالمين، أم هو من جبريل-عليه السلام-، أم من نبينا الكريم؟؟ ما تفهم لا هذا ولا هذا
ولا هذا !!.. ولذلك أنا بقول: كلام خطابي شعري، لا يُنبي عن رأي الكاتب وماذا يعنيه.. هكذا الحقيقة أكثر الكتّاب عندما يكتبون، يكتبون عبارات إنشائية خطابية، لا تعطي حقائق كونية واقعية.. طيّب كمّل.

فقال السائل: مع قولكم هذا يا شيخ-بارك الله فيكم- نرى كثير من الكتّاب، أو من طلاب العلم الذين تأثروا حتى بمنهج المحدثين، أو لهم مثلاً في علم الحديث، أو في علم بعض الأمور تأثروا بمنهجه..
فقال الشيخ الألباني-رحمه الله-: وما هو منهجه؟ وهل له منهج؟
فقال السائل: نعم، وهو التأثر بكتابات أبو الأعلى المودودي، في كلماته ،كثير من الكلمات، مثل كتابه(العدالة الاجتماعية)، وكتابه( التصوير الفني في القرآن)..
فقال الشيخ الألباني-رحمه الله-: هذا أسلوب أدبي، ليس أسلوباً علمياً.
فقال السائل: لا، هناك منهج خاصة في التكفير؛ تجهيل الأمة، وتكفيرها، وخاصة في كتاب( العدالةالاجتماعية).. وذكر عنه أيضاً صاحب كتاب: ( الأعلام) للزركلي، ذكر عنه هذا، وأنه كان –يعني- اتخذ
هذا المنهج وهو تجهيل الأمة بكاملها، تجهيل كل مَن حواليه، فتأثر بهذا المنهج كثير من الشباب الآن ،فأصبحوا يدعون لكتبه، ويدعون لآرائه، ولجميع ما كتبه، فما رأيكم يا شيخ في هذا؟؟
فقال الشيخ الألباني-رحمه الله-: رأينا أنه رجل غير عالم وانتهى الأمر!! ماذا تريد- يعني- أكثر منهذا؟!! إن كنتَ تطمع أن نكفِّره، فلستُ من المكفّرين، ولا حتى أنتَ أيضاً من المكفّرين..
لكن ماذا تريد إذاً؟؟!! يكفي المسلم المنصف المتجرِّد أن يُعطي كل ذي حق حقه، وكما قال تعالى:\" ولا تبخسوا الناس أشياءهم ولا تعثوا في الأرض مفسدين\". الرجل كاتب، ومتحمس للإسلام الذي يفهمه، لكن الرجل أولاً ليس بعالم، وكتاباته (العدالة الاجتماعية) هي من أوائل تآليفه، ولما ألّف كان محض أديب، وليس بعالم، لكن الحقيقة أنه في السجن تطوّر كثيراً، وكتب بعض الكتابات كأنها بقلم سلفي ليست منه.. لكن أنا أعتقد أن السجن يُربّي بعض النفوس، ويُوقض بعض الضمائر، فكتب كلمات، يعني يكفي عنوانه الذي يقول: (لا إله إلا الله، منهج حياة)، لا إله إلا الله منهج حياة.
لكن إذا كان هو لا يفرِّق بين توحيد الألوهية، وبين توحيد الربوبية، هذا لا يعني أنه لا يفهم توحيد الربوبية، وتوحيد الألوهية، وأنهما يجعلهما شيئاً واحداً.. لكن يعني أنه ليس فقيهاً، وليس عالماً، وأنه لا يستطيع أن يُعبّر عن المعاني الشرعية التي جاءت في الكتاب وفي السنة، لأنه لم يكن عالماً.

فقال السائل: ألا ترى –ياشيخ- مع هذا التأثر وهذه الأمور التي كتبها ، أن يُرد عليه؟
فقال الألباني- رحمه الله-: نعم يُرد عليه، ولكن بهدوء وليس بحماس..يُرد عليه، وهذا واجب.. ليس الرد على المخطيء محصوراً بشخص أو أشخاص.. كل من أخطأ في توجيه الإسلام بمفاهيم مبتدَعة، وحديثة ولا أصول لها في الكتاب ولا في السنة، ولا في سلفنا الصالح، والأئمة الأربعة المتبَعين؛ فهذا ينبغي أن يُرد عليه..
لكن هذا لا يعني أن نعاديه.. وأن ننسى أن له شيئاً من الحسنات!!
يكفي أنه رجل مسلم، ورجل كاتب إسلامي- على حسب مفهومه للإسلام كما قلتُ أولاً-،[غير واضح] وأنه قُتل في سبيل دعوته للإسلام، والذين قتلوه هم أعداء الإسلام..

Questioner:
- The first question - and both questions are taken from his book "Fi Thilal al-Quran", the author of the book mentioned in "Fi Thilal al-Quran" in the beginning of the surah "TaHa" that "The Quran is a cosmic phenomenon like the phenomenon of the Skies and the Earth". What is your opinion about these words, considering the fact that he made here a sufficient analogy (tashbih), o Shaikh?

Shaikh answered:
- My brother! We said it more than once that Sayyiq Qutb - rahimahullah - was not a scholar, he is a man of literature, writer and he is not knowledgable in terminology related to Islamic Shari'a, especially the words related to salafi aqida. That's why it's not appropriate to give so much attention to some separate words, because he was not a scholar, a scholar in a meaning that we intend , i.e.a scholar of Quran and Sunnah who was upon the minhaj of the righteous salaf.
The most of his words are... I mean literary, eloquent words and they are not terms related to islamic knowedge, let alone salafi terminology...his words are not of this type..
And we do not hesitate to reject such expressions and this analogy; I say what is to be said: it does not mean that it's the word of Allah in a literal meaning - as it's the belief of Ahl as-Sunnah - and it doesn't mean that it's the word of Allah in a figurative meaning - as in the doctrine of mu'tazila...
These are eloquent and poetic words...
But I dont see it necessary to concentrate on such words, but we just explain that using such expressions is not allowed in Shari'a. And it doesnt state clearly what is the authors belief regarding the Noble Quran, i.e. is it the true word of Allah or not?! That's what i believe and it's the answer for your first question.

Questioner:
- The second question - and it's from the same book - and it's in the beginning of the surah Naba', or to be more correct: it's in the introduction to the surah Naba'; where he said about Quran: that it's "musical waves"!!!

Shaikh al-Albani said:
- The same answer!

Questioner:
- O Shaikh! It leads us to some questions: we see on many writings of some writers or those who claim to have knowledge...

Shaikh al-Albani interrupts:
- Sorry! Before you continue--what did you understand from his word "waves" ? Does it mean that it's the word coming from Allah or it's from Jibreel - peace be upon him - or it's from our nobel prophet? What do you understand? not the first and not the second and not the last!!! That's why I tell you: These are eloquent poetic words and it doesnt give information about the authors belief and what he intended... it's the reality of many writers when they write, they wrote literary and eloquent words and it doesn't give you true reality...OK, continue...

Questioner:
- With these words of you, o Shaikh - barakallahu fikum - we see many writers and students of knowledge - and there are even people who are versed in the field of hadith - they are affected by his minhaj...

Shaikh al-Albani:
- And what is his minhaj? Has he got a minhaj?

Questioner:
- Yes, and it's affection to writings of Abu 'Ali al-Mawdudi...he cites his words, in many places, like in his book "al-'Adala al-'Ijtimaiyya" and his book "at-Taswir al-Fani fil-Quran"...

al-Albani:
It's a literary style and not an academic islamic style...

Questioner:
-No, he has a special minhaj regarding takfir! He call the whole Islamic nation a nation of jahiliyya and he regarded them as kuffar, especially in his book "al-'Adala al-'Ijtimaiyya"...and al-Zirikli, the author of the book "al-'Ilam" mentioned about him the same. He had this minhaj and it's calling the ummah a naton of jahiliyya, he considered all the people around him ignorant and now many of the youth are affected by this minhaj and they began calling to his books and they call to his beliefs and to all his writings. And what is your opinion about that, o Shaikh??

al-Albani:
- We think that this man was not a scholar and this issue ends here! What do you want more than that???? If your so covetous of me to make takfir upon him and I'm not from those who make takfir, and your not one of them either...But what do you want???? It's sufficient for a muslim who is fair and rightful to treat everyone justly, as Allahu Ta'ala said: ""And withhold not things justly due to men, nor do evil in the land, working mischief." The man is a writer, enthusiastic about Islam which he understood. But firstly this man is not a scholar and his book "al-'Adala al-'Ijtimaiyya" is amongst his first books. When he wrote this book he was just a man of literature, not a scholar. But the reality is that he changed a lot while he was in jail and he wrote some books as if these books were written by a salafi, and not by him...But I believe that the life in prison educates some souls and clears up conscience of some people. He wrote some books and titles of these books are sufficient: "La ilaha illa Allah, minhaj al-hayah" (la ilaha illa Allah, formula of life)...
But if he didn't make diffirence between "tawhid al-uluhiyyah" and "tawhid ar-rububiyyah", it doesn't mean that he had not understood "tawhid ar-rububiyyah" and "tawhid al-uluhiyyah", but he considered these two in one...it means that he was not a faqih and not a scholar and he was not able to use the terms that came with Quran and Sunnah, because he was not a scholar.

Questioner:
- O shaikh, don't you think that with all this affection and all these things that he wrote, we should refute him?

Shaikh al-Albani:
- Yes, he should be refuted, but with clear guidance, not with zeal..he should be refuted and it's important. Refutation of one who err is not limited to a person or personalities.Every person who make mistakes when he writes about Islam with innovated methods and without bases from the Quran and Sunnah and our righteous salaf and four imams that are followed, should be refuted.
But it doesnt mean that we become hostile to him...and that we forget all his good qualities!!! It's sufficient that he is a muslim and he is an islamic writer - as much as he understood from Islam as I said earlier - (unclear words) ...and he was killed for his calling to Islam and those who killed him were enemies of Islam.

LISTEN! (http://www.islamgold.com/rmdata/136_Albani_Sayed_qotob.rm)

he also praised parts of muallim fi tariq and his tafseer so post that aswell be balanced

[Salah ad-Din]

قال أحد الحاضرين: الكتابين هذين أحدهم بعنوان ( مطاعن سيد قطب في أصحاب رسول الله)، واعتمد فيه على الطبعة السادسة
عام64 قبل أن يموت سيد قطب في سَنَة..
فقال الألباني: الله يهديه، يا أخي شو بيفيد الكتاب هذا؟
A person said to Shaikh al-Albani:
"These two books titled as "Muta'an Sayyid Qutb fi Ashabi Rasulillah" (Sayyid Qutbs abuses of the prophets companions) and he relied on the sixth edition year 1964 before Sayyid Qutb died in the year..."
Shaikh al-Albani said: May Allah guide him! O brother! what is the benefit of this book?"

LISTEN! (http://www.islamgold.com/rmdata/119_albani_qotob3.rm)

The above mentioned book is Rabi'i al-Madkhalis book, if I guess right!

[Nooristan]

he also praised parts of muallim fi tariq and his tafseer so post that aswell be balanced

afwan bro,that is quite unfair,how do you know the brother had prior knowledge of Albanis praise of those books,yet you infer he has and he is somehow unbalanced due to not mentioning them?The brothers first tongue is not English and translating is not easy,so lets cut him some slack and benefit from the khair that he has posted,which to be frank and I think all will agree has been excellent and of a great benefit to us all,jzk Salah ad-Din,wa salamolaikom wr wb....

[Salah ad-Din]

Shaikh al-Albani, about "Milestones"...

قال السائل:
فكنت أتمنى سؤال واحد فقط، هل قلتم مرة أن ( معالم في الطريق) هو توحيد كُتب بأسلوب عصري؟
فقال فضيلة الشيخ محمد ناصر الدين الألباني-رحمه الله-:
أنا أقول إنه في هذا الكتاب فصل قيّم جداً، أظن عنوانه: ( لا إله إلا الله، منهج حياة).. هذا الذي أقوله..
وأنا قلتُ آنفاً، ومثل ما يقولوا عندنا بالشام [غير واضح] الرجل ليس عالماً، لكن له كلمات عليها نور، عليها علم..مثل: منهج حياة..
أنا أعتقد إن العنوان هذا كثير من إخوانا السلفيين ما تبنوا معناه، أنه (لا إله إلا الله)منهج حياة.
Someone asked shaikh:
I would like to ask you only one question: Did you say once that the book "Milestones" is tawhid that is written in the style of the century!
Shaikh al-Albani - rahimahullah - said:
I say that in this book there is a chapter which is very valuable, I suppose the title is "La ilaha illa Allah, minhaj hayah"... that's what I say and I said it earlier, as people usually say in Sham where I live ...(unclear words).. this man was not a scholar, but he has some words full of wisdom (noor), full of knowledge...like "minhaj hayah".. I believe this title, many of our salafi brothers do not adopt it's meaning that is "La ilaha illa Allah" minhaj hayah...

LISTEN! (http://www.islamgold.com/rmdata/118_albani_qotob2.rm)

[anam]

It seems Al Albani has also said this:

Furthermore, brother, the salafeeyah or the khalaf, did the scholars from whom we have inherited this righteous call, was this their position with regards to scholars? Was it like the position of this new group who claim salafeeyah? The opposite is the truth. They should be like those who preceded us to this righteous call.

And that he quotes Syed Qutb in his tahqeeq of athahabee's book "al-'uloo" and referred to him as being"al-ustaathul-kabeer" the great teacher"or professor


Sh Fawzaan quotes 6 pages from Qutb in a book about inheritance

http://www.alfuzan.net/Islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=345&CID=9&SW=قطب#SR1

question n 215

Can somone who read arabic better than me translate

But the question whas about Sayd qutb whose litterature was the beginning influence of Jama'at takfeer and its thinking, do we take the good of his books or do we leave all ?

Answer : Every body's words are taken or left except the Prophet saw ( whose words are only taken), but before taking we should look at the action, Fiqh and and sincerity.. the return should be to the masadir saheehah from kitab wa Sunnah of His Prophet saw and books of Ahle ilm based on these sources, and our aim should not be : This one was right, this one false, but our aim is searching for truth, ...

So here shaykh Fawzan did not say it is haram to read all books of Sayd qutb, he did not deny and said Sayd qutb has no mistakes.

And here we have shaykh Fawzan quoting in his risalah on Islamic family quoting Sayd Qutb

look

http://www.alfuzan.net/Islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=344&CID=2#s1

http://www.alfuzan.net/Islamlib/viewchp.asp?BID=344&CID=12

In the first link we have shaykh Fawzan quoting Sayd Qutb on the tafseer of one Ayat, and at the end we have reference of this tafseer woth words " in Thilal Al Quran of the Ustad Sayd Qutb, Dar Shuruq, tenth publication"


but read the questions put to Sh Al Albani to understand this mindset...after reading this you will see many of these people are not even close to the manhaj of Sh Al Albani rather they only use names and are clear hypocrites among the Muslims...

http://www.siratemustaqeem.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2578&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=rabee%20madkhali&start=10

[anam]

This is the policy suggested by the The Center for Combating Terrorism at West Point. They are discussing what groups to fund in order to subvert the appeal and spread of the so-called "Salafi Jihaadi" movement:

"The difficulty comes in identifying the right leader or group. The U.S. could discretely fund mainstream Salafi figures like Madkhali who are effective in siphoning off support from jihadis and who do not advocate violence (e.g. by paying for publications, lectures, new schools). This will be effective in the short term, but it further strengthens the dehumanizing Salafi ideology from which the jihadi movement derives much of its inspiration. The U.S. could also fund non-Salafis, but it currently lacks the expertise necessary to determine who is truly influential. Perhaps a better strategy in the near term would be to pressure Middle Eastern governments to allow greater political participation and visibility for groups that jihadis are threatened by. This approach should vary from country to country. For example, in Egypt, it would be the Muslim Brotherhood; in Saudi Arabia, the Shi’a. Again, it is essential that the U.S. hand not be seen."

http://www.ctc.usma.edu/Stealing%20A...20--%20CTC.pdf

Fans of Rab'ee Al Madkhali
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=978&highlight

[Salah ad-Din]

قال الشيخ الألباني-رحمه الله- لأحدهم:
ودَعْك وسيد قطب، هذا رجل نحن نجلّه على جهاده، لكنه لا يزيد على كونه كان كاتباً، كان أديباً مُنشئاً، لكنه لم يكن عالماً..
فقال السائل:[غير واضح] سورة الإخلاص من تفسير سيد قطب، ويقول: لماذا تتكلم كذا؟، سيد قطب أحسن من تكلم في شرح لا إله إلا الله، أما سمعتَ الشيخ الألباني قال كذا وكذا؟.. يقولون هذا ويُلبّسون، ممكن أنا

أعرف هذا، لكن العامة كثير ياشيخ.
فقال الشيخ الألباني للسائل:
ياشيخ اتق الله في نفسك!! كلام الله ما نجى من مثل هذا الذي تحكيه[ غير واضح]..
وقال أحد الحاضرين (وأظنه كان ينقل كلاماً لغيره عن سيد قطب) :
فهذا من شذوذات سيد قطب، ليوسّع به دائرة التكفير[ ألا ترون أن هذا إلزامه مالا يلزم؟]
فقال الألباني: (إي نعم ولا شك)
فأكمل المتكلم: لمن يخالف منهجه، ماهو يكفِّر الآخرين، مجرد أي واحد يخالف منهجه، يريد سيد بهذا أن يكفره..
فقال الألباني: ما عرفنا ذلك عنه، أنا أعتقد الرجل ليس عالماً، لكن له كلمات الحقيقة خاصة في السجن، كأنها-يعني- من إلهام..
قل: ماهي ثمرة البحث في إنه سيد قطب أو غيره، قال: كذا وكذا وكذا، فما هو المقصود من حكايتنا لكلامه؟
فقال السائل: نحن الآن نريد تحذيراً الناس، لأن الناس جعلوا مؤلفات هذا الرجل، يعني فاقت في طلوعاتها وانتشارها مؤلفات الأئمة، فيا شيخ هو يعني عنده أخطاء عقائدية كثيرة، ويتكلم في عثمان...
فقال الألباني: هذا هو الجواب؟
فقال الذين عنده: انتهى الوقت[غير واضح]
فقال الألباني: تفضلوا.
Shaikh al-Albani said to someone:
"Let Sayyid Qutb alone! We respect this man for his jihad but we does not exaggerate his status and say that he was a writer, he was a man of literature, but he was not a scholar...
Questioner:
(unclear words, but I guess he meant) [when we talk about his mistakes in] Surah al-Ikhlas from Sayyid Qutbs commentary, people would respond: "why do you say so? Sayyid Qutb is the best who talked about "la ilaha illa Allah", Did you not hear that Shaikh al-Albani said such and such...they say such things and decieve people...may be I know this, but those who dont know are many, o shaikh!
Shaikh al-Albani!
Ya shaikh! Fear Allah for your own sake! Allahs word would never come from such one whom you talk about! (unclear words)
One of attendants said (probably he cited from someone whi criticized Sayyid Qutb):
- "It's from contradictions of Sayyid Qutb, for he expands the circle of takfir", Dont you think that he is obligating that which is not necessary?"
Shaikh al-Albani:
- "Yes, no doubt!
He goes on:
- "Who opposes his minhaj, the one who doesn't make takfir upon others, Sayyid Qutb wants to make takfir upon him just because of his opposition to Sayyids minhaj.."
Shaikh al-Albani:
- We dont know such thing from him! I believe that he was not a scholar! But he has some true words, especially from the period when he was in jail, as if these words are from inspiration..
And what is the benefit of this discussion that Sayyid Qutb or someone else said such and such and such...?!?!?!? What is the purpose of reminding his words to us?
Questioner:
- Now we want to warn people, because the people consider the writings of this man, I mean his writings have spread and become popular more than the books of imams. And o Shaikh! He has many mistakes in aqida and he talked ill about Uthman...
Shaikh al-Albani:
- Is it your answer?
Other said:
- Time is up (unclear words)
Shaikh al-Albani:
- Tafaddaluuu!


LISTEN! (http://www.islamgold.com/rmdata/117_albani_qotob1.rm)

[anam]

Mash Allaah this was well put [though a person could have immense knowledge yet still not be considered scholor of ahlul sunnah due to lack of sincerety fear compliance ect]

Wa Alaykum as-Salaam,

Basically, Rabee al-Madkhalee is a scholar, whose vast knowledge on the sciences of hadeeth are recognized. But he concerned himself with affairs which did not concern him. And, by virtue of these opinions, he made himself into a play-thing in the hands of the Saudi regime and the enemies of Islam:

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=978

That these scholars praised him doesn't mean anything, since this was a general rather than specific praise. Shaykh Albanee (rahimahullah) criticized his books against Sayyid Qutb as "jaahil". More recently, three scholars of the Lajnah have been more specific in their criticism of Rabee': Abdullah ibn Jibreen, Bakr Abu Zayd, Abdullah al-Ghunayman.

So I say: Regardless of his knowledge (which we praise him in), it was more befitting that he stick to these affairs rather than dwelving into things which he used to divide the Muslims and weaken the unity of Ahlus-Sunnah. So he became the standard-bearer of the Vulture Culture and was exalted to the pedestal of the "scholar of Jarh wat-Ta'deel" by his blind followers.

So he is a taghut, who in turn serves other tawaghut; this doesn't necessarily means he intended harm, since taghut also refers to those who were followed (in that which contradicts the Deen) without their desire. But the fact remains that his opinions divide the Muslims and weaken the unity of Ahlus-Sunnah.

Surely it is the Deen to which we owe allegiance: men are merely its vehicles. Once they fall off, we continue with or without them. We don't get caught up into personalities and we don't make taqleed of scholars. It is only the Islamic Ideal to which we owe our full allegiance, not the personalities.

Was-Salaam,
Suhaib

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=1265&highlight

[anam]

BarakAllahfik brother

Salah u Deen

a big refreshing difference from our brother Salahadeen!

Also one can see the clear manhaj of Al Albani in the way he deals with these jahils who claim salafiyaa and Albani as their Imam..even though he could have recognized some of the mistakes of Qutb and warn from them rather he combats their nature and mentality of these people ..

so everyone noticed these wicked people claiming salafiyaa and now they are left naked

Alhamdolillah

[Anikaa]

Jazaakullaahu khairan salah ad-deen! This thread should be made sticky :)

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum

One of the best threads in a long time!

[Adeel]

Shaikh al-Albani:
- Yes, he should be refuted, but with clear guidance, not with zeal..he should be refuted and it's important. Refutation of one who err is not limited to a person or personalities.Every person who make mistakes when he writes about Islam with innovated methods and without bases from the Quran and Sunnah and our righteous salaf and four imams that are followed, should be refuted.
But it doesnt mean that we become hostile to him...and that we forget all his good qualities!!! It's sufficient that he is a muslim and he is an islamic writer - as much as he understood from Islam as I said earlier - (unclear words) ...and he was killed for his calling to Islam and those who killed him were enemies of Islam.

Subhan Allah! so true!!

[justabro]

Basically, Rabee al-Madkhalee is a scholar, whose vast knowledge on the sciences of hadeeth are recognized.
This is exaggeration. I don't have a problem with saying he's a scholar of hadith, but VAST knowledge... his master's thesis is his most important writing on the subject of hadith sciences. It is decent, but hardly perfect.

[Salah ad-Din]

Madkhali Cult = Neo-Con salafism!
My conclusions!

If we had to identify this group only by it's name, then we would limit it's scope. Madkhalis are not just followers of Rabi'i al-Madkhali. They have many subcategories who differ among themselves based on their methods! So if we let it encompass all the groups with main similarities, then groops like jordanian salafis, haddadis, people of Faleh al-Harbi and other groups with similar ideologies come under this name as well, i.e. al-madakhila!

What are their main problems?

1. They have evolved a new method of deriving hukm from sources of Shari'a. They believe that people should revive the tradition of first generations and by that they do not intend merely their understanding of Quran and Sunnah, while they do not take into acount those who transmitted all narrations and information about the first muslim generations. They prefer to call them "khalaf" in a derogative way, although there is nothing wrong with this word. So they try to jump over this vast knowledge of different madhhab scholars and land on the era of ahl al-hadith! So you would see them calling themselves with titles like "al-Athari" or "as-Salafi". They say that every act that was not done by "salaf", is an act of bid'a, which is a huge mistake! Because there is certain acts that were not done by "salaf" and they are not considered as "bid'a"...
2. They have no tolerance to the difference of opinion. And unfortunately it's an influence coming from Shaikh Nasir ad-Din al-Albani - rahimahullah . It was because of Shaikh al-Albanis some conclusions this new trend became popular. Shaikh al-Albani in the introduction to his book "Sifat Salatin-Nabi" rejected the hadith "ikhtilaf of my ummah is a mercy" and he also rejected it's meaning claiming that it contradicts Quran. It's true that the authencity of this hadith is not proven, yet some scholars said that hadith has "asl" and as for it's meaning we should say that many great scholars endorsed it's meaning and it was reported from 'Umar bin Abdulaziz and Imam Malik and others! Imam an-Nawawi refuted Ibn Hazms denial of it's meaning! So such an approach leads to many problems. People lose their tolerance towards fellow muslims who may follow madhhabs. Because they believe that in every matter there should be one truth and it's upon us to seek the truth! So if one of them meet another muslim who prays hands below his navel, or who does not perform "raf' al-yadeyn" or similar fiqhi details, the first impression that he gets about this man is that he is a mubtadi'. Which is a great disaster for this ummah and at the end other ruling become actual and he leaves his muslim brothers, because you should leave mubtadi', you should greet him and so on...
3. They have exaggerated the status of scholars or hukkam to the level of innocence. They teach people that blind-following is haram in Shari'a, yet they themselves follow blindly the scholars. If you disagree with Shaikh al-Albani, they may attack you with surprise, like saying: "How dare you to refute Shaikh al-Albani? He is the mujaddid of this century...Do you know more than him?" This is just one side of a coin. The second side is very different! When they fall into mistakes and the same scholars begin to give them "nasiiha", they turn away and they would discredit them in certain matters. Like al-Halabi did against al-Lajnah in the issue of iman and kufr and like al-Madkhalis criticism of Ibn Baz and Ibn Jibreen in the issues of al-jarh wat-ta'dil! I heard once a graduate of Madinah University saying about al-Lajnah: "Lajnah is not the same as it was when Shaikh Ibn Baz lived!" or "all are youngsters in al-Lajnah", another one said about al-Fawzan: "He has odd views (which is actually true as I believe)" and "He is confused"...Because they have their own agenda. When you try to refute them using verses of Quran and ahadith and aqwal as-sahabi, in responce they will surely cite some words of Shaikh al-Albani, or Ibn Uthaymin, Ibn Baz or al-Fawzan or even Rabi'i al-Madkhali, Ali Hasan al-Halabi, al-'Ubeykan and others...and if you oppose them citing some words from the same scholars, they will reject you with some narrations of salaf, even they will take from "khalaf" who they consider "'ashari" and "maturudi"...(I will try to give you some examples in my further posts - insha Allah)
4. They have claimed the right to represent salafi views. They have established a sort of monopoly over "salafi minhaj" in which they are totally unfair. Because they would not gather all opinions from salaf and make a scholarly research and to come to an unbiased conclusion! Rather they have a selective method, they will take whatever befits their desires and leave what opposes them. (You will see some examples - insha Allah )
5. They distort the words of scholars, if they can not do it then they support their opinions by citing some ambiguous words from scholars. Like al-Anbari, al-Halabi and others made with the words of Muhammad ibn Ibrahim Al ash-Shaikh, Ibn Kathir and Ibn Taymiyya and others..
6. They dont follow their own methods, thus apply double standarts. Like they advice people to follow strictly rules of takfir, so they excuse hukkam and others who have clear-cut kufr, who have fallen into clear riddah. But when it comes to the issues of tabdi' (calling someone mubtadi') they do not apply the same excuse, or the same rules. But in reality takfir, tafsiq, tabdi' have the same rules. Of course, takfir is more dangerous, but it doesn't change the reality. So you would see them calling people like Parviz Bisharaf, Husni LaMubarak, or king of Jordan or others "muslim brothers who should be obeyed"... but when it comes to sincere muslims or mujahideen, they have became enemies of Islam or dogs of the Hell, khawarij and other filthy words are used for them without any precaution.
7. They are totally against getting involved in politics. They have adopted some ideologies from christians, like "Give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's and to God what's God's". They dislike that common people are interested in the matters related to the modern problems of this ummah, i.e. "fiqhul-waqi'". Because they are scared that if muslim masses get informed about their disgusting acts, they will reject them. They will throw them out of the throne.
8. They want to create a muslims society where they would have total obedience in every sense of this word. Muslims have already become as robots, even so that if a muslim encounters a danger, he should ask for fatwa before repelling it! So nowadays when kuffar attack our countries, when they kill our women and children...these ignorant masses wait for a fatwa from al-Fawzan. This's so terrible!
9. They have made certain issues like a litmus test for "sa