does this make one a kufr?

[greenshirt]

asalaamu alaikum

i really hate threads like this because i don't like to mess with the label of kufr so lightly.

but this is a question that i've been wondering so i thought i'd ask.

i have a muslim friend who fulfills his prayer obligations, reads the qur'an and tries to be a good person.

but, this guy supports the legalization of drugs and does not think that one who commits zina should be punished.

i don't like to go around condemning people for every little thing(and many of us reverts do this), but i did kindly point out that zina and drugs were haram so why would he want them to be legal? he said that he believes that god knows best and that the qur'an is right and all but that he just doesn't find a reason for it to be banned.

so is he a kufr? or is he a muslim since he still knows what the correct ruling from god is, etc?

wa salaam

[abdulmuhsee]

Nah, this doesn't even fall anywhere near that category, since he isn't even making something haram as halal. It's understandable that he would think the punishments for zina and alcohol and whatnot might be too harsh for Muslims in the west simply because zina and alcohol are two of the most common pasttimes for them, and people embracing Islam from the west will sometimes have a very difficult time breaking these habits, sometimes continuing with them for years until (if) their eeman becomes strong. As you said, he believes these punishments are correct, but just thinks lenience is better in that specific situation. Allahu Alim on all that, but it's definitely not a treading-on-the-edge-of-kufr sort of thing.

[Umm Ahmed]

No one on here is going to say he is a kaffir as none of us are the judges , and he would need to be spoken to so that he understands what he is saying.

The following are from the nullifiers of Islaam . He is praying mashAllaah then give him an article on this http://abdurrahman.org/tawheed/explanationnullifiers.pdf

Shirk of Obedience (Shirk At’Ta’ah), which is obeying others in disobeying Allah. In other words, when someone tells you to prostrate to other than Allah, you obey him and disobey Allah, as Allah forbids prostrating to others than Him. Or we could say if someone legalizes the actions made illegal by Allah, or forbids what Allah has legalized, then that is considered Shirk (polytheism) of Obedience. Allah says in the Qur’an (of which meaning translates as): “They [Jews and Christians] took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah [by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah]. And [they also took as their Lord] Messiah, son of Maryam [Mary], while they [Jews and Christians] were commanded [in their books] to worship none but One Ilah [God - Allah]. La ilaha illa Huwa [none has the right to be worshipped but He]. Praise and glory is to Him [far above is He] from having the partners they associate [with Him]” (9:31). Narrated Adi Bin Hatim : “I heard the Prophet (PBUH) read this verse [9:31]. So, I said to him, `Verily, we did not worship them’. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) replied [of which meaning translates as] : ‘Did they not make illegal what Allah made legal so you then made it illegal? And [did they not] make legal what Allah made illegal and you therefore made it legal?’ I said `Yes’. The messenger (PBUH), said [of which the meaning translates as], ‘That is worshipping them’” (Reported by Ahmed and At-Tirmidhi who graded it as Hasan

Whoever believes that some guidance other than that of the
Prophet’s (sallAllaahu `alayhi wa sallam) is more complete than his
guidance and that someone else’s judgement is better than his
judgement, such as those who prefer the judgement of the Tawaagheet
(pl. of Taaghoot; false deities/religions) over his judgement, then
he is a disbeliever.

Whoever hates something that the Messenger came with, even
though he may act on it, has disbelieved, based on Allaah’s
saying: “That is because they disliked what Allaah sent down, so He
nullified their (good) deeds.” [Surah Muhammad: 9]

Whoever believes that it is permitted for some people to be
free of (implementing) the Sharee’ah (revealed laws) of Muhammad
(i.e. Islaam), then he is a disbeliever, according to Allaah’s
statement: “And whoever seeks a Religion other than Islaam, it will
never be accepted from him and in the Hereafter, he will be from
among the losers.” [Surah Aali `Imraan: 85]

[Mohd_Ali]

Sallams

I personally think your friends know right from wrong, I am in the same situation at work, have a brother who is a good muslim but wears gold and only prays on Friday and only if he has the day off work otherwise he always have something to do, now what does that make him??

[greenshirt]

Nah, this doesn't even fall anywhere near that category, since he isn't even making something haram as halal. It's understandable that he would think the punishments for zina and alcohol and whatnot might be too harsh for Muslims in the west simply because zina and alcohol are two of the most common pasttimes for them, and people embracing Islam from the west will sometimes have a very difficult time breaking these habits, sometimes continuing with them for years until (if) their eeman becomes strong. As you said, he believes these punishments are correct, but just thinks lenience is better in that specific situation. Allahu Alim on all that, but it's definitely not a treading-on-the-edge-of-kufr sort of thing.
asalaamu alaikum

thank you for the response akhi. this is what i was sort of thinking as well, but sometimes i get confused!

allahu alim

wa salaam

No one on here is going to say he is a kaffir as none of us are the judges , and he would need to be spoken to so that he understands what he is saying.

The following are from the nullifiers of Islaam . He is praying mashAllaah then give him an article on this http://abdurrahman.org/tawheed/explanationnullifiers.pdf

Shirk of Obedience (Shirk At’Ta’ah), which is obeying others in disobeying Allah. In other words, when someone tells you to prostrate to other than Allah, you obey him and disobey Allah, as Allah forbids prostrating to others than Him. Or we could say if someone legalizes the actions made illegal by Allah, or forbids what Allah has legalized, then that is considered Shirk (polytheism) of Obedience. Allah says in the Qur’an (of which meaning translates as): “They [Jews and Christians] took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah [by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah]. And [they also took as their Lord] Messiah, son of Maryam [Mary], while they [Jews and Christians] were commanded [in their books] to worship none but One Ilah [God - Allah]. La ilaha illa Huwa [none has the right to be worshipped but He]. Praise and glory is to Him [far above is He] from having the partners they associate [with Him]” (9:31). Narrated Adi Bin Hatim : “I heard the Prophet (PBUH) read this verse [9:31]. So, I said to him, `Verily, we did not worship them’. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) replied [of which meaning translates as] : ‘Did they not make illegal what Allah made legal so you then made it illegal? And [did they not] make legal what Allah made illegal and you therefore made it legal?’ I said `Yes’. The messenger (PBUH), said [of which the meaning translates as], ‘That is worshipping them’â€� (Reported by Ahmed and At-Tirmidhi who graded it as Hasan

Whoever believes that some guidance other than that of the
Prophet’s (sallAllaahu `alayhi wa sallam) is more complete than his
guidance and that someone else’s judgement is better than his
judgement, such as those who prefer the judgement of the Tawaagheet
(pl. of Taaghoot; false deities/religions) over his judgement, then
he is a disbeliever.

Whoever hates something that the Messenger came with, even
though he may act on it, has disbelieved, based on Allaah’s
saying: “That is because they disliked what Allaah sent down, so He
nullified their (good) deeds.” [Surah Muhammad: 9]

Whoever believes that it is permitted for some people to be
free of (implementing) the Sharee’ah (revealed laws) of Muhammad
(i.e. Islaam), then he is a disbeliever, according to Allaah’s
statement: “And whoever seeks a Religion other than Islaam, it will
never be accepted from him and in the Hereafter, he will be from
among the losers.” [Surah Aali `Imraan: 85]
asalaamu alaikum ukthee

you see, this is why i am confused. because i have heard that if they rule by other then god because of temptation or desire, but they know what god's rule is, and they know it is actually correct, then they are an evildoer but not an apostate.

but then the verses you have quoted and the snippets from the article seem to say otherwise, such as..

Or we could say if someone legalizes the actions made illegal by Allah, or forbids what Allah has legalized, then that is considered Shirk (polytheism) of Obedience

so would this mean if he says that drinking should be legalized, even though he knows it is a sin and the ruling of allah(swt) is different, he would be a kufr? i mean, this is where it gets really confusing.
Sallams

I personally think your friends know right from wrong, I am in the same situation at work, have a brother who is a good muslim but wears gold and only prays on Friday and only if he has the day off work otherwise he always have something to do, now what does that make him??

asalaamu alaikum

i think your situation is a bit different.. my friend does not personally drink alcohol or commit zina(that i know of) whereas your friend is sinning by personally doing the actions you mentioned.

i know that if you do not say your daily salat, this can nullify one's islam according to most scholars. the prophet(saws) said that the prayer is what seperates one from islam and polytheism.

as for wearing gold.. this is a sin but would not take one out of islam, as long as they know that it is haram. waallahu alim

wa salaam

[Ibn Al Khattab]

As Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu akhi "greenshirt",

This video was posted in another topic on this forum and as soon as I saw it, I immediately thought about this topic that you created. Please watch it and insha'Allah you will benefit from it.




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['Abd al-Kareem]

wa 'alaykumassalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu,

wait a second... are you saying that a person knows that zina is haram but he thinks that a person who does zina should not be punished?? i.e. Islamically?

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum,

perhaps he just thinks drugs should be legal in the states so he can take advantage of them. Perhaps he thinks drugs under shariah must be haram.

['Abd al-Kareem]

I'm not talking about drugs, I'm talking about brother greenshirt's statement that the brother "does not think that one who commits zina should be punished." (direct quote)

I would like him to clarify that.

By the way, this statement is VERY contradictory:
"he said that he believes that god knows best and that the qur'an is right and all but that he just doesn't find a reason for it to be banned."

If he truly believes that Allah knows best and the Qur'an is right, then he would have no qualms accepting that zina is a punishable offense under Shari'a and drugs are intoxicants.

[Hamza]

maybe he feels punishment is due under islamic shariah? i.e. no vigilante honour type killing in a non0muslim country ?

[Abdullah Ali al Hanafi]

asalaamu alaikum

i really hate threads like this because i don't like to mess with the label of kufr so lightly.

but this is a question that i've been wondering so i thought i'd ask.

i have a muslim friend who fulfills his prayer obligations, reads the qur'an and tries to be a good person.

but, this guy supports the legalization of drugs and does not think that one who commits zina should be punished.

i don't like to go around condemning people for every little thing(and many of us reverts do this), but i did kindly point out that zina and drugs were haram so why would he want them to be legal? he said that he believes that god knows best and that the qur'an is right and all but that he just doesn't find a reason for it to be banned.

so is he a kufr? or is he a muslim since he still knows what the correct ruling from god is, etc?

wa salaam

bro i think instead of sharing it on a forum you should take the brother to a scholar/talibul ilm/knowledgeable brother and discuss it with them privately so you can be sure
1.what he exactly means by his statements
2.things can be explained in detail to him

[siham]

If he believes that someone who commits zina shouldn't be punished because there is no islamic court than that is a fiqh opinion.
But if he actually believes that zina shouldn't have a punishment in the asl than that is a Kufr belief. He should be given daleel and if he rejects than he becomes a rejector of the truth (a kafir).
And great shuyukh like Ibn Taymiyyah en Abu Butayn etc clearly state that there is no excuse of ignorance for a muslim who lives among the muslims and doesn't know that acts like zina are haraam.

And Allah knows best

as salaam 'alaykum