Question for the S.B's (Suicide Bombers) who attribute blowing one's self up to the Deen

[AbuAliTheRoman]

O Suicide Bomber! You claim that your calamity is not a bidah/innovation yet who did the suicide bombing first? Muslims or other than them?

Was it not in WW2 The Japanese Kamikaazes inspired you to your endeavour, or the Mushrik Tamil Tigers in the chaos they spread by blowing themselves up?

And you claim this is an 'issue of fiqh'!!! Lo behold, knowledge of explosives has been available to us for the past 500-600 years yet never did we find the Muslims seeking to blow themselves up with gunpowder in suicide attacks, rather using it as aid not as a means of topping ourselves? This clearly is a newly invented matter. The Ottoman rulers, despite their bidah, never went to the excess of blowing themselves up, but putting explosive materials to good use such as cannonball cannons etc....imagine if they blew themselves up with the gunpowder...perhaps Istanbul would remain a Christian City with a few craters around it, named after those who blew themselves up!

May Allah rectify our affairs...

[seeker_of_knowledge]

Verdict Regarding the Permissibility of Martyrdom Operations

By Shaykh Sulaymān Ibn Nāsir Al-‘Ulwān, may Allāh, the Most High, preserve him.
http://www.archive.org/download/guidebooks/martyrdom_operations.pdf

Here are some more links about the same..

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/95.htm

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1622.htm

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/215/1287.htm

[alghayb]

This also may answer your question:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2082/333333333ht3.gif

http://clearinghouse.infovlad.net/showthread.php?t=14965

http://clearinghouse.infovlad.net/showthread.php?t=14976

[justabro]

Sh. al-Albani allowed martyrdom operations with conditions in his Sahih Mawarid al-Zam'an.

Please learn some Fiqh before lecturing others about it. Honestly, you guys are a broken record. You research your five pet issues, and think you're muhaqqiqin because you move your finger in tashahhud.

[WM]

Muhaqiq? As in me? ;)

Should I have my name changed?

[anam]

O Suicide Bomber!


Actually iv'e just retired..

Im impressed by the courage of the Romans.

['Abd al-Kareem]

Akhi we all agree that the shuhadaa' are alive,
but I don't think they will read this post.

[Abu Sufyan]

O Abu Ali The Roman

Do you not have anything better to do than post about issues that are not even affecting you or Muslims in London?

As we know the Prophet (s.a.w) said that "the perfection of a persons Islam is leaving that which does not concern him"

But that isn't the underlying problem is it? Judging by your last few posts it is clear that you are affected by the 'Salafi' brothers (even though there characteristics are so far away from that of the salaf).

So what is the real issue? You're posts are so irrelevant but all connected, as you ask about sayyid qutb, then speak about jihaadis then make the jump to speaking about kidnapping, hijacking etc. It is so blatant that you're upon the 'salafi' manhaj, well that is what a cult is all about i guess - you see the traits a mile away, subhanallah.

Is that all you sit down and discuss all day? who is off the manhaj? Who is an Ikhwaani? Who is off the manhaj?

Brother be just in your questioning and your posts

[Abu Sufyan]

Even on the topic of suicide hijackings kidnappings etc. If you really feel that passionate about condeming the actions of Muslims that is up to you.

But sincerly ask yourself. How do you feel about the situation and environment that the Muslims are in?
What really gets your blood boiling? Is it seeing muslims being oppressed, murdered, transgressed against, robbed, tortured etc or is it the retaliation of these Muslims (in a manner you don't see as Halal).

What do you hate most? Consult your heart

Have you sincerely made du'a for these Muslims whom you deem to be misguided?

[Salahadeen]

O Suicide Bomber! You claim that your calamity is not a bidah/innovation yet who did the suicide bombing first? Muslims or other than them?

Was it not in WW2 The Japanese Kamikaazes inspired you to your endeavour, or the Mushrik Tamil Tigers in the chaos they spread by blowing themselves up?

And you claim this is an 'issue of fiqh'!!! Lo behold, knowledge of explosives has been available to us for the past 500-600 years yet never did we find the Muslims seeking to blow themselves up with gunpowder in suicide attacks, rather using it as aid not as a means of topping ourselves? This clearly is a newly invented matter. The Ottoman rulers, despite their bidah, never went to the excess of blowing themselves up, but putting explosive materials to good use such as cannonball cannons etc....imagine if they blew themselves up with the gunpowder...perhaps Istanbul would remain a Christian City with a few craters around it, named after those who blew themselves up!

May Allah rectify our affairs...

Good post bro Abu Ali. Masha-Allah.

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

O Abu Ali The Roman

Do you not have anything better to do than post about issues that are not even affecting you or Muslims in London?

As we know the Prophet (s.a.w) said that "the perfection of a persons Islam is leaving that which does not concern him"

But that isn't the underlying problem is it? Judging by your last few posts it is clear that you are affected by the 'Salafi' brothers (even though there characteristics are so far away from that of the salaf).

So what is the real issue? You're posts are so irrelevant but all connected, as you ask about sayyid qutb, then speak about jihaadis then make the jump to speaking about kidnapping, hijacking etc. It is so blatant that you're upon the 'salafi' manhaj, well that is what a cult is all about i guess - you see the traits a mile away, subhanallah.

Is that all you sit down and discuss all day? who is off the manhaj? Who is an Ikhwaani? Who is off the manhaj?

Brother be just in your questioning and your postsGood post bro Abu Sufyan. Masha-Allah.

[waziri]

Good post bro Abu Ali. Masha-Allah.

How is it a good post? Its totaly retarded


I havent got time to go through it point by point right now in detail but briefly


Lo behold, knowledge of explosives has been available to us for the past 500-600 years yet never did we find the Muslims seeking to blow themselves up with gunpowder in suicide attacks,


Never were the muslims in the situation that they are in now.If we had an organised army with tanks and planes there would be no need to resort to the martyrdom tactic for the most part.We would fight the enemy on equal terms and fire cruise misslies at them and drop bombs on them and use helicopter gunships against them.That way the weapons/explosives would be used in a conventional manner.The fact of the matter is that warfare in our times is guerilla warfare where the Mujahideen have to employ hit and run tactics.

Shaykh Albani and many other Ulema have declared the use of Martyrdom operations lawful based on evidence from quran and sunnah, do you O Roman dare to suggest that shaykh Albani was an innovator? Why are you posting such crap sugesting that there is no valid difference of opinion on the matter?

['Abd al-Kareem]

Brother Abu Sufyan, I think I know what the response to your post might be:

Someone might say: Well all that evil is *expected* from the kuffar, but the reason that suicide bombing boils my blood more is the fact that it is done by Muslims who are claiming that it is Deen.

This is a commonly used excuse, but it doesn't make it okay. It is okay if you firmly believe that 'suicide bombing' is not permissible, but at least have the guts to accept that there is a difference of opinion. Second, the fact that suicide bombing angers you should not have an affect on your anger and outrage due to what is happening to the Muslims today. The fact that we only hear (from some people) condeming of suicide bombing and what the Muslims do wrong (according to this person), and we never hear any venting or ranting or outrage about what is happening to the Muslims, this fact speaks for itself I think.

Allah 'azza wa jall knows best.

[Salah ad-Din]

Here you have the words of Shaikh Abdullah bin Suleyman al-Muni':
الحمد لله, لا شك أن العمليات الانتحارية في سبيل الله ضد أعداء الله ورسوله وأعداء المسلمين قربة كريمة يتقرب بها المسلم إلى ربه, ولا شك أنها من أفضل أبواب الجهاد في سبيل الله, ومن استشهد في مثل هذه العمليات فهو شهيد إن شاء الله.
ولنا من التاريخ الإسلامي في عهد النبوة وفي عهد الخلفاء الراشدين ومن بعدهم مجموعة من صور الجهاد في سبيل الله, ومن أبرز صور جهاد البطولة والشجاعة النابعة من الإيمان بالله وبما أعده سبحانه للشهداء ما في قتال المرتدين وفي طليعتهم مسيلمة الكذاب وقومه, فقد كان لبعض جيوش الإسلام في هذه المعركة عمليات انتحارية في سبيل افتتاح حديقة مسيلمة
He consideres it to be permissible and he praises it as a type of jihad and he says that those who make it are shahid...

and Shaikh Ibn Jibreen:
فقد عُرف ما يقوم به اليهود أعداء الله ورسوله وأعداء الإسلام والمسلمين من الاضطهاد والإذلال والإهانة للمسلمين في فلسطين من قتل وهدم للمنازل وإذلال للمُسلمين وإيذاء لهم بحيث أنهم يتمنَّون مع هذا الإذلال ما يُريحهم ويُريح أولادهم وذراريهم من هذا العذاب، فلأجل ذلك يعملون هذه الأعمال الانتحارية رجاء أن يُخفف اليهود من هذه الأعمال الشرسة على المُسلمين، فنرى أن هذا الانتحار جائز وأن فاعل ذلك يُرجى أن يكون شهيدًا لأنه قتل كثيرًا من اليهود وأذلَّهم وأخافهم، فيدخل في قول الله تعالى: وَأَعِدُّوا لَهُمْ مَا اسْتَطَعْتُمْ مِنْ قُوَّةٍ وَمِنْ رِبَاطِ الْخَيْلِ تُرْهِبُونَ بِهِ عَدُوَّ اللَّهِ وَعَدُوَّكُمْ فهذا الإرهاب لأعداء الله داخلٌ في هذه الآية الكريمة، وقد كان المسلمون إذا تقابلوا مع الكُفَّار يدخل أحدهم في صفوف العدو ومعه سيفه وهو يعلم أنه سوف يُقتل ولكنه قبل قتله يقتل منهم عددًا ويجرح آخرين، فهكذا وضع هؤلاء المواد المُتفجرة في أجسادهم ثم تفجيرها في صفوف العدو فيقتلون ويُقتلون ولعلهم يدخلون في الشُهداء الذين قال الله فيهم: إِنَّ اللَّهَ اشْتَرَى مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَنْفُسَهُمْ وَأَمْوَالَهُمْ بِأَنَّ لَهُمُ الْجَنَّةَ
he regards it as permissable, an act of jihad...

http://ibn-jebreen.com/ftawa.php?view=vmasal&subid=5580&parent=4164

so there is shari' difference of opinion

[Abu wakee]

Bismillah,

Please read the following detailed fatwa on impermissibility of suicide attacks from a shafi'i perspective:


http://www.jimas.org/affftwh.pdf

[Salahadeen]

Twisting of Shaykh al-Albani's words.

Shaykh al-Albani put so many restrictions on it that what we seen today done by Al-Qaeda does not fall into this permissibility at ALL!

In fact, Shaykh al-Albani would have condemned all of this, had he lived to see this day.

[Salahadeen]

Bismillah,

Please read the following detailed fatwa on impermissibility of suicide attacks from a shafi'i perspective:


http://www.jimas.org/affftwh.pdf

Jazakh-Allah Khair.

[islamic@rebel]

In fact, Shaykh al-Albani would have condemned all of this, had he lived to see this day.

Thats arrogance on your part brother. How would you know the sheikh would condemn this for a fact? Stick to being a medic brother.

[anam]

I dont believe it to be suicide

look at the dictionary and what the word means..

for the benefit of the doubt let's aggree with what they say

now, ''O Roman'' do you see the clear ikhtilaaf on this issue or will you accuse the thousands upon thousands who have taken up this method as sinfull

or as your thread title sais ''who attribute blowing one's self up to the deen''

which as you already know.. the one you can't oppose- Sh Al Albani has permitted, but would you call him an innovator or khariji thinker?

pls humble yourself and answer and take the advise of our brother that you should stay out of issues that dont concern you

[Salahadeen]

which as you already know.. the one you can't oppose- Sh Al Albani has permitted, but would you call him an innovator or khariji thinker?


Shaykh al-Albani placed so many restrictions on it and said that his allowance does not apply to what suicide bombers do today.

[Hamza]

By the time the Mujahideen followed all the guidelines from madhkalis the crusaders would be in our bedrooms.

These people are such a big joke its laughable. Saying this ppl like Abu Baseer are respected still even tho they prohibit this action; it all depends on conditions and circumstances i.e.

Palestine is different to Chechnya; aint rocket science (or medicine) :)

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum,

this has also turned into an interesting thread.

[anam]

Shaykh al-Albani placed so many restrictions on it and said that his allowance does not apply to what suicide bombers do today.

wait...

so he allowed it but in the same breath said ''but this allowance does not apply to what suicide bombers do today''

so when did it apply ? Then doesn't this contradict what you praised when you aggreed it is an innovation taken from mushriks?

i think those are your own words unless you can show Sh Albani's exact words so a brother can translate

infact you've said here:

Twisting of Shaykh al-Albani's words.

Shaykh al-Albani put so many restrictions on it that what we seen today done by Al-Qaeda does not fall into this permissibility at ALL!

In fact, Shaykh al-Albani would have condemned all of this, had he lived to see this day.

then changed it to

[QUOTE=Salahadeen;124564]Shaykh al-Albani placed so many restrictions on it and said that his allowance does not apply to what suicide bombers do today.

Who's twisting the shiekhs words then?

So show us these restrictions and why these people are major sinners
maybe even murtad apostates


lastly Albani isn't the only scholor so even if he sais it's haram then this doesn't mean ijmaa' except for a hizbi.. hence the relevance of quoting words that will expose this cult like mentalities

[Tisatashar]

Some much anguish for the crusaders, munafiq police & sahwah. We always feel for the ones we love. Anyway, perhaps someone can post up the explaination of the 'Ulema sultans' evidence;

O you who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves unjustly except it be a trade amongst you, by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allah is Most Merciful to you. And whoever commits that through oppression and injustice (AAudwanan_wathulman), We shall cast him into the Fire, and that is easy for Allah. 4.29-30

Allah has given us permission to defend ourselves against the invaders and He also ordered to do it so as to strike fear into their hearts. Please show how this act is an act of "oppression and injustice (AAudwanan_wathulman)"????

['Abd al-Kareem]

Twisting of Shaykh al-Albani's words.
Can you please directly quote for me who, when, and where his words were twisted? Thank you.

Shaykh al-Albani put so many restrictions on it that what we seen today done by Al-Qaeda does not fall into this permissibility at ALL!
Please list for me the restrictions that al-Albani put for the permissibility of suicide bombing. Your use of the phrase 'so many' and your repeating of it in another post implies that there were many restrictions. I await the list.

In fact, Shaykh al-Albani would have condemned all of this, had he lived to see this day.
Really? Do you know al-ghayb or are you simply guessing? I can answer that: No one knows al-ghayb but Allah subhaanahu wa ta'aala. Scholars change their opinions all the time, we don't know what Shaykh al-Albani would or would not have condemned if he were alive.

So quit speaking on behalf of others and, matter of fact, quit speaking on behalf of yourself as well. Actually, just quit speaking. That works for all of us.

I await your list.

[Salahadeen]

Shaykh al-Albani himself said that although THEORETICALLY there could be some situation in which suicide bombing may be allowed, but this does not apply 99% of the time that it happens (and that was him talking about his own time).

I will try searching for the quote insha-Allah.

[alghayb]

This also may answer your question:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2082/333333333ht3.gif

http://clearinghouse.infovlad.net/showthread.php?t=14965

http://clearinghouse.infovlad.net/showthread.php?t=14976

AllahuAkbar, this is one of the most beautiful releases of As-Sahab yet. It shows the great Mujaahid Commander, Abu al-Hassan, may Allah have mercy upon him. It is a documentary of his life and how Allah guided his heart to Jihaad and how it remained that way until his martyrdom. His life is filled with the rich love of Allah, His Messenger and Jihaad fe Sabeelillaah. Mashaa’Allaah, he took part in a martyrdom operation and he did not do it because he hated life; no, by Allah, he did the operation to meet Allah! “And who doesn’t want to meet Allah?” His martyrdom turned out to be a miracle as in the beginning, it was apparent that the Americans were not coming in the specified place. So he waited for days on end and none of the Kuffaar came. So he decided to drive back to base. When he was unable to cross a river on the way due to the heavy rain, he waited for some time and then Allah Ta’aalaa gave him the gift he was looking for: The American Convoy including 4 Humvee’s. It came in the most random of ways and he was so surprised and excited. He successfully blew up the convoy, destroying everything, and Allah enabled him to reach the status of Shahaadah, and we ask Allah for it to be so.

Shaykh Abu al-Hassan was also the one who is famous for his challenge to the Americans to fight the Mujaahideen on the ground as opposed to bombing them from the air like cowards. This (http://www.fileflyer.com/view/xeS4bBK) is the audio (he’s the one speaking after Shaykh Usaamah).

The documentary also talks about the importance of Jihaad and Martyrdom.

We ask Allah to reward and preserve As-Sahab Media.

Jihad and Martyrdom

http://revolution.muslimpad.com/2008/07/08/as-sahab-media-jihaad-and-martyrdom/

Part 1 of 5
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wLGFzEmYo0Q&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wLGFzEmYo0Q&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Part 2 of 5
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IngsBK8gjvk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IngsBK8gjvk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Part 3 of 5
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y_if38JabDo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y_if38JabDo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Part 4 of 5
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qS2kDxTP0UA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qS2kDxTP0UA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Part 5 of 5
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GinR2BBNLDE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GinR2BBNLDE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Salahadeen]

Shaykh Al-Albani was asked:

Question: It has is reported from your eminence that you do not sanction suicide missions. We therefore seek from you a clarification of the issue.

Shaykh al-Albani replied....

"Suicide missions in the present time, all of them, are not legislated (by Islam) and all of them are unlawful. They could be of the types (of suicide) which cause a person to remain in the Hellfire eternally. As for suicide missions being (a means of) nearness, by which one seeks closeness to Allah, then today (we find) that a man fights for the sake of his land or his homeland. These suicide missions are not Islamic at all."

From the cassette recording, “The Verdicts of the Scholars concerning Assassinations and Bombings”, quoted in the book, “The Verdicts of the Scholars in Englightening the (Muslim) Nation”, of Jamal bin Farihan al-Harithi (p.76).

[Abuz Zubair]

Salahadeen, what next are you going to post? Vote for McCain? Day by day I see you are becoming more of a neo-con than ever. This is what modernism is, after all, one way ticket to Quilliam Foundation.

Do you recognise that the modern jurists, the Najdis, the modernists you follow, and others have greatly disagreed over this legal issue? And if this is the case, can you really turn this issue into another 'Good-American-Muslim vs Towelhead-terrorist' issue like a neo-con as you always do?

Really, you are getting more and more absurd day by day.

[Salahadeen]

Salahadeen, what next are you going to post? Vote for McCain? Day by day I see you are becoming more of a neo-con than ever. This is what modernism is, after all, one way ticket to Quilliam Foundation.

Do you recognise that the modern jurists, the Najdis, the modernists you follow, and others have greatly disagreed over this legal issue? And if this is the case, can you really turn this issue into another 'Good-American-Muslim vs Towelhead-terrorist' issue like a neo-con as you always do?

Really, you are getting more and more absurd day by day.

Oh shut your mouth. What an exaggerator you are. I would never vote for McCain, nor join Quilliam Foundation.

As for the issue of suicide bombing, I do not condemn all those pious scholars who differed on the issue; I just think that they erred in their ijtihad. I do NOT call them towel-head terrorists.

On the other hand, many on this forum are terrorist lovers, evidenced by them putting up pictures of bin Ladin, Zarqawi, etc.

Don't worry, one day I will meet you in Saudi. And we will settle this face to face insha-Allah.

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

Jaysh, do us all a favor and go back to Islamicaweb and their likes ...
Thanks in advance.

[justabro]

Shaykh al-Albani placed so many restrictions on it and said that his allowance does not apply to what suicide bombers do today.

So what? His conditions all had to do primarily with it being a strategic decision authorized by the commander who is in a position to make such a decision.

I agree he probably would not approve of most of the suicide operations going on today, but you people are arguing that the very notion is a heresy.

[Abuz Zubair]

So what? His conditions all had to do primarily with it being a strategic decision authorized by the commander who is in a position to make such a decision.

I agree he probably would not approve of most of the suicide operations going on today, but you people are arguing that the very notion is a heresy.
Be careful! We have a neo-con in town who thinks you are all towel-head terrorists!

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

Shaykh al-Albani replied....

"Suicide missions in the present time, all of them, are not legislated (by Islam) and all of them are unlawful. They could be of the types (of suicide) which cause a person to remain in the Hellfire eternally. As for suicide missions being (a means of) nearness, by which one seeks closeness to Allah, then today (we find) that a man fights for the sake of his land or his homeland. These suicide missions are not Islamic at all."
From the cassette recording, “The Verdicts of the Scholars concerning Assassinations and Bombings”, quoted in the book, “The Verdicts of the Scholars in Englightening the (Muslim) Nation”, of Jamal bin Farihan al-Harithi (p.76).

as salaamu alaykum,

suicide can take one to hellfire forever? they will never be able to get out?

[Adeel]

I don't understand this. If someones tries to rape someone's sister and his brother knows that he will be shot dead if he tries to save her would'nt he still go to save her? Will it be a suicide?? Is my analogy wrong here?
Know that the religion of Allah is more preferable to us than our sisters!

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as-salaamu alaykum,

You have a point akhi, not to mention many of the Salaf used to throw themselves in the most dangerous positions during battle to try to obtain martyrdom as they fought on.

But anyways can someone please respond and tell me if suicide really takes you to hellfire forever? I see it translated a lot as 'eternally' but i thought Allaah forgives sins less than shirk

[Hamza]

Oh shut your mouth. What an exaggerator you are. I would never vote for McCain, nor join Quilliam Foundation.

As for the issue of suicide bombing, I do not condemn all those pious scholars who differed on the issue; I just think that they erred in their ijtihad. I do NOT call them towel-head terrorists.

On the other hand, many on this forum are terrorist lovers, evidenced by them putting up pictures of bin Ladin, Zarqawi, etc.

Don't worry, one day I will meet you in Saudi. And we will settle this face to face insha-Allah.

One day you are licking;

Next day you are kicking;

Aint you a JOKE - The IA Joke. Pls continue, when you throw a tantrum it alays makes me laugh. :D

[isha-h]

But anyways can someone please respond and tell me if suicide really takes you to hellfire forever? I see it translated a lot as 'eternally' but i thought Allaah forgives sins less than shirk

Is this not one of them instances where we simply have to accept that Allah knows Best ????

There are certain verses of the Qur’an and statements by the Prophet (peace be upon him) which tell us that those who perpetrate certain sins will be punished. But then it is up to Allah to determine what punishment fits every single case, because He judges us individually.

We all know suicide is strictly forbidden, because it is an affront to Allah. It is like a person saying: “You have given me life and I am taking it away.”

A person who commits suicide as a result of a mental disorder like depression or some other severe form of anxiety is not in full control of his senses. We cannot say how Allah will judge such a person, but we trust His justice, because He does not deal unfairly with anyone. Would anyone really consider suicide (apart from martyrdom) if he were in complete control of his senses ????

I read this somewhere

When a man committed suicide during the Prophet’s lifetime, the Prophet was distressed. He did not perform the janazah prayer for the deceased, but he told his companions to do it. When they did, they prayed for the man and requested forgiveness for him. This shows that the Prophet did not exclude the possibility of his being forgiven by Allah.

[gag order]

As for the issue of suicide bombing, I do not condemn all those pious scholars who differed on the issue; I just think that they erred in their ijtihad. I do NOT call them towel-head terrorists.if they had erred and certain people subscribe to that error then really you cant condemn them without first condemning the source of their error, right? at least try to be consistent.

On the other hand, many on this forum are terrorist lovers, evidenced by them putting up pictures of bin Ladin, Zarqawi, etc.the press put up pictures of bin laden, zarqawi etc are they also terrorist lovers?

[justabro]

as-salaamu alaykum,

You have a point akhi, not to mention many of the Salaf used to throw themselves in the most dangerous positions during battle to try to obtain martyrdom as they fought on.

But anyways can someone please respond and tell me if suicide really takes you to hellfire forever? I see it translated a lot as 'eternally' but i thought Allaah forgives sins less than shirk

There is a hadith in Sahih Muslim of a man who committed suicide. If I recall, he cut his wrists. The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) made istighfar for him and he was forgiven, but the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) was told that his hands are still being punished, so he said وليديه فاغفر "And forgive his hands as well!"

[Brother_Mujahid]

So Jaysh, you respect Salman al-'Awdah, so what do you make of this?

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=55737&postcount=72

Is he a "terrorist lover"?

[William Wurkmun Fosterr]

Suicidality and homocidality (the state of being suicidal and the state of being homocidal) are mental illnesses.

[waziri]

1. It is mentioned in the Musannaf of Ibn Abî Shâybah” that Muhammad b. Ishâq (who is truthful but forgets and often does not mention all the people in the chain of transmitters), relates from Muhammad b. Qatâdah that Mu`âz b.`Afrâ’ said: “O Messenger of Allah, what makes Allah laugh on account of his servant?” Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: “That he attacks the enemy without wearing any protective gear.” Muhammad b. Qatâdah said: “Mu`âz cast aside the armor he was wearing and fought until he was killed.”

(This hadîth was authenticated by Ibn Hazm in al-Muhallâ, Volume 7 page 294. It is also related from `Awf b. al-Hârith by al-Tabarî in al-Târîkh (2/33))




If this incident was related to the madakhila and they were not aware of it being a hadith then they would say such a person threw himself into destruction,that he killed himself,that he brought no benefit to the muslims etc.

How far removed are they (the madakhila)from the self sacrificial mentality of the sahaba (ra) ?


For the madakhila the deen is about worldly benefit, and the only Jihad is the Jihad against the muslims

[Salah ad-Din]

Well, Shaikh al-Albani has spoken about this issue in many occasions. Basically he doesn't consider it to be suicide, because when he was asked:
بالنسبة للعمليات العسكرية الحديثة، فيه قوات تسمى بالكوماندوز، فيكون فيه قوات للعدو تضايق المسلمين، فيضعون فرقة انتحارية تضع القنابل ويدخلون على دبابات العدو، ويكون هناك قتل... فهل يعد هذا انتحاراً؟
"Concerning modern-day millitary operations, they have special forces called "commandos" and when the enemy forces put muslims in a very difficult position, these groups ready for suicide wearing explosive belts come close to enemy tanks and they die there (exploding these tanks)...is this suicide?"

Shaikh al-Albani answered:
لا يعد هذا انتحاراً؛ لأنّ الانتحار؛ هو: أن يقتل المسلم نفسه خلاصاً من هذه الحياة التعيسة... أما هذه الصورة التي أنت تسأل عنها، فهذا ليس انتحاراً، بل هذا جهاد في سبيل اللّه
"It's not a suicide, because suicide is when a muslim kills himself to get rid of his miserable life. ..As for this way of death that you ask me about, then it's not a suicide, rather it's jihad for the sake of Allah..."

"Silsila al-Huda wan-Nur, 134 (http://www.alalbany.org/alalbany/hoda_wa_noor/134.rm)
time: 23:24

But he puts some conditions..basically Shaikh al-Albani has two conditions for this act:
1. It should not be done individually. There should be an 'amir and he should order such operations. It's not up to an individ to decide on his own. So Shaikh al-Albani says that if he is doing it on his own, then it may be throwing yourself into danger!
2. It should not be done for the sake of patriotism, or bravery or all kind of corrupt ideas, other than Islam!

And the last words of Shaikh al-Albani may be found in his ta'liq upon "Mawarid az-Zaman". He writes about a hadith which describes how a boy ordered a king to kill him in order to show people the Glory of Allah and then he said in a footnote:
وفي الحديث ما يدل على ما يُعرف اليوم بـ " العمليَّات الانتحاريَّة " التي يقوم بها بعض الشباب المسلم ضد أعداء الله ، ولكن لذلك شروط ، من أهمِّها أن يكون القائم بها قاصداً وجه الله ، والانتصار لدين الله ، لا رياءً ، ولا سمعةً ، ولا شجاعةً ، ولا يأساً من الحياة
"In this hadith we have a proof for that what is know today as "Suicide operations", which are done by some muslim youth against Allahs enemy. But it has conditions: The most important of them is that the one who performs this act should do it for the sake of Allah and for aid of Allahs religion. Not because of riya or popularity or bravery and despair."
"Sahih Mawarid az-Zaman", 2/119

[Abdullah Ali al Hanafi]

Well, Shaikh al-Albani has spoken about this issue in many occasions. Basically he doesn't consider it to be suicide, because when he was asked:
بالنسبة للعمليات العسكرية الحديثة، فيه قوات تسمى بالكوماندوز، فيكون فيه قوات للعدو تضايق المسلمين، فيضعون فرقة انتحارية تضع القنابل ويدخلون على دبابات العدو، ويكون هناك قتل... فهل يعد هذا انتحاراً؟
"Concerning modern-day millitary operations, they have special forces called "commandos" and when the enemy forces put muslims in a very difficult position, these groups ready for suicide wearing explosive belts come close to enemy tanks and they die there (exploding these tanks)...is this suicide?"

Shaikh al-Albani answered:
لا يعد هذا انتحاراً؛ لأنّ الانتحار؛ هو: أن يقتل المسلم نفسه خلاصاً من هذه الحياة التعيسة... أما هذه الصورة التي أنت تسأل عنها، فهذا ليس انتحاراً، بل هذا جهاد في سبيل اللّه
"It's not a suicide, because suicide is when a muslim kills himself to get rid of his miserable life. ..As for this way of death that you ask me about, then it's not a suicide, rather it's jihad for the sake of Allah..."

"Silsila al-Huda wan-Nur, 134 (http://www.alalbany.org/alalbany/hoda_wa_noor/134.rm)
time: 23:24

But he puts some conditions..basically Shaikh al-Albani has two conditions for this act:
1. It should not be done individually. There should be an 'amir and he should order such operations. It's not up to an individ to decide on his own. So Shaikh al-Albani says that if he is doing it on his own, then it may be throwing yourself into danger!
2. It should not be done for the sake of patriotism, or bravery or all kind of corrupt ideas, other than Islam!

And the last words of Shaikh al-Albani may be found in his ta'liq upon "Mawarid az-Zaman". He writes about a hadith which describes how a boy ordered a king to kill him in order to show people the Glory of Allah and then he said in a footnote:
وفي الحديث ما يدل على ما يُعرف اليوم بـ " العمليَّات الانتحاريَّة " التي يقوم بها بعض الشباب المسلم ضد أعداء الله ، ولكن لذلك شروط ، من أهمِّها أن يكون القائم بها قاصداً وجه الله ، والانتصار لدين الله ، لا رياءً ، ولا سمعةً ، ولا شجاعةً ، ولا يأساً من الحياة
"In this hadith we have a proof for that what is know today as "Suicide operations", which are done by some muslim youth against Allahs enemy. But it has conditions: The most important of them is that the one who performs this act should do it for the sake of Allah and for aid of Allahs religion. Not because of riya or popularity or bravery and despair."
"Sahih Mawarid az-Zaman", 2/119

these pseudo talafis just pick and choose from albani they wont accept your fatwa or statement or they will twist it with their own explanations

[Salahadeen]

Be careful! We have a neo-con in town who thinks you are all towel-head terrorists!

Please stop lying against me. I never called anyone a "towel-head". Why must you lie and exaggerate?

Look at your adab, you immature mid-thirty year old. YOU'RE THE JOKE. Still treated like a kid, even though you've studied Islam for so many years, and you are in your mid thirties. hahaha

if they had erred and certain people subscribe to that error then really you cant condemn them without first condemning the source of their error, right? at least try to be consistent.

It's not inconsistent at all. It is YOU who is playing the game of inconsistency. You are using Sh. Salman al-Oudah's or Shaykh al-Albani's fatwas to validate what you are doing, yet we both know that Shaykh Salman al-Oudah thinks of your group of people (the groups you support) as terrorists, and so did Sh. Al-Albani.

I don't call anyone a terrorist for allowing suicide bombing against purely military targets. I merely say that this is a wrong ijtihad.

The groups that you guys support--al qaeda and company--do suicide bombing against civilians. Hence, you are terrorist lovers.

the press put up pictures of bin laden, zarqawi etc are they also terrorist lovers?

Now you're being silly. The media doesn't put them up due to love or adoration, whereas you and your kind do.

So Jaysh, you respect Salman al-'Awdah, so what do you make of this?

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=55737&postcount=72

Is he a "terrorist lover"?

I love how you pathetic fools have to keep making stuff up and exaggerating against me.

Once again, I never called anyone a terrorist or terrorist lover for allowing suicide bombing against purely military targets. Rather, I merely disagree with their opinion, just like you might disagree with where a certain scholar places his hands during prayer, i.e. chest or navel.

However, as for those who support groups that suicide bomb against innocent civilians, then they are the terrorist lovers.

[Abu wakee]

Man Saladin you're flippin' akhee. You need to chill out. AZ is not what you're calling him. Please make wudhu and pray 2 rakats insha Allah.

[Yousef al Khattab]

Salahadeen is everything ok? You seem to have a lot of hidden anger.

[anam]

Actually people quote Al Albani and Al Oudah to show the difference

these scholors are relevant to quote as they are looked upto by many Muslims and it's neccersary to show the big hizbi culture that's been going on

Salahadeen ...our brother Gag Order simply asked for some consistency in your words

now if you disaggree with an ishtihaad from a scholor you must have some basis to do so

instead you answer back with arrogance that people here are terrorist lovers

why do you need an opinion anyway?

and i dont aggree that these methods are used to target innocents

rather this is from the neccesities of war and the target is surely the enemy

but people like you will suspect Muslims

[anam]

Anyway, aslong as you recognize difference then there is no problem..

rather the problem is with those who do not recognize these are fiqhi matters where scholors differed and the salafi movement with others gave the brothers hard times about this even calling others khawarij and the likes !
As you know many brothers were imprisoned because of the duna kufris warning about so called takfeerists to the authorities

anyway the imams have told when the scholors differ then refer to those on the front line who fight for sake of Allaah [swt] as they will be guided

and surely we should leave these matters for the relevant peoples

['Abd al-Kareem]

Hey Jaysh, I noticed you avoided answering my questions, per usual. I wasn't surprised though.

Akhi, do yourself a favor and get yourself banned from this forum so you never have to come back again and embarrass yourself over and over and over...

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum

jazakallah khayr justabro and isha-h.

So how come we see sometimes people translate that one who commits suicide will continously do it for eternity?

[Salah ad-Din]

as salaamu alaykum

jazakallah khayr justabro and isha-h.

So how come we see sometimes people translate that one who commits suicide will continously do it for eternity?

because it says in arabic "khalidan mukhlidan fiha abadan" which means "he will stay there forever"...

The Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever throws himself down from a high mountain and kills himself will be throwing himself down from a mountain in the Fire of Hell for all eternity. Whoever takes poison and kills himself will be taking poison in the Fire of Hell for all eternity. Whoever kills himself with a weapon (literally, iron) will be holding it in his hand and stabbing himself in the stomach in the Fire of Hell for all eternity. (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 5778)

but Ibn Hajar refuted some doubts of mu'tazila regarding this hadith,look up in Fath al-Bari...

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum,

it seems to indicate that its possible for a muslim to stay eternally in hellfire

[Salah ad-Din]

Ibn Hajar explained it:
وقد تمسك به المعتزلة وغيرهم ممن قال بتخليد أصحاب المعاصي في النار , وأجاب أهل السنة عن ذلك بأجوبة :
منها توهيم هذه الزيادة , قال الترمذي بعد أن أخرجه : رواه محمد بن عجلان عن سعيد المقبري عن أبي هريرة فلم يذكر " خالدا مخلدا " وكذا رواه أبو الزناد عن الأعرج عن أبي هريرة يشير إلى رواية الباب قال : وهو أصح لأن الروايات قد صحت أن أهل التوحيد يعذبون ثم يخرجون منها ولا يخلدون ,
وأجاب غيره بحمل ذلك على من استحله , فإنه يصير باستحلاله كافرا والكافر مخلد بلا ريب .
وقيل : ورد مورد الزجر والتغليظ , وحقيقته غير مرادة .
وقيل : المعنى أن هذا جزاؤه , لكن قد تكرم الله على الموحدين فأخرجهم من النار بتوحيدهم .
وقيل : التقدير مخلدا فيها إلى أن يشاء الله . وقيل : المراد بالخلود طول المدة لا حقيقة الدوام كأنه يقول يخلد مدة معينة , وهذأ أبعدها
"Mu'tazila and others who say that sinners will dwell in the Hell for ever used it as an evidence and Ahl as-Sunnah answered to them with many answers:
1. There is a mistake in the addition, Tirmizi after narrating this hadith said: Muhammad bin 'Ajlan narrated it from Sa'id al-Muqbiri and from Abu Huraira and didn't mention "khalidan mukhlidan" (remaining forever) The same was narrated by Abuz-Zinad, from al-'Araj and from Abu Huraira indicating to the narration of this chapter, he said: It's more correct, because there are many authentic narrations which say that ahl at-tawhid will be punished and thenbe taken out of the Hell and they will not remain there forever.
2. Other scholars answered by applying it to the one who makes it permissable (istihlal), he becomes kafir because his istihlal and kafir will remain their forever without doubt.
3. Other scholars said: it's for discouragement and warning against punishment and the literal meaning is not intended.
4. Others said: The meaning is that it's a punishment for suicide but Allah showed his blessings to muwahhids and took them out of the Hell because of their tawhid.
5. The word "mukhlidan" means until Allah wishes to take them out.
6 Some others said: Khulud means here lenghtiness of the period, not the reality of endless continuation as if he says "he will remain there for a definite time" and this is the farthest from the truth.."

[Salahadeen]

Hey Jaysh, I noticed you avoided answering my questions, per usual. I wasn't surprised though.

Which question is that?


Akhi, do yourself a favor and get yourself banned from this forum so you never have to come back again and embarrass yourself over and over and over...

Do me a favor and stop barking. I know you really try hard to be a dog of hell fire, but please stop for now.

[Abu_Abdullah_2008]

Which question is that?



Do me a favor and stop barking. I know you really try hard to be a dog of hell fire, but please stop for now.


Assalamualaikum

Chill out boys!

[Brother_Mujahid]

Do me a favor and stop barking. I know you really try hard to be a dog of hell fire, but please stop for now.

So to be against you is to be from the khawarij?

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum

i wonder if we can have one thread without personal insults.

[ummafnaan]

as salaamu alaykum

i wonder if we can have one thread without personal insults.

That will be the day...

[Salahadeen]

So to be against you is to be from the khawarij?

Nonsense. He is an al-qaeda sympathizer.

[Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari]

Politically speaking, the only type of Muslim reaction that impresses oppressors. have lasting effect on public opinion in the West are suicide bombings. (Especially on Jews who are trembling for their worldly lives more than any other tribe in the world - the most common Jewish wish for their brethren is to live 120 years).

It seems like it's the only type of weapon left for Muslims. It's the only type of action that is not dismissed.

Historically, Wikipedia states that first suicide attacks w/ participation of Muslims were "The Islamic Dawa Party's car bombing of the Iraqi embassy in Beirut in December 1981 and Hezbollah's bombing of the U.S. embassy in April 1983 and attack on United States Marine and French barracks in October 1983" but that is incorrect since all three incidents were carried by Shia, who are not Muslims.

Does anybody know what was the first suicide bombing attack carried by a Muslim?

UPDATE:

After I continued to read that Wikipedia article I stumbled upon that quote from Shaheed Sheikh Yassin:

"Once we have warplanes and missiles, then we can think of changing our means of legitimate self-defense. But right now, we can only tackle the fire with our bare hands and sacrifice ourselves."

[Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari]

Nonsense. He is an al-qaeda sympathizer.

What's wrong w/ being that? I understand when people criticize particular actions of a certain group, but if you generalize, then you have to admit that you are dismissing as a whole the only organized international movement of Muslims that continues Jihaad fee-sabiliLllah.

[Hamza]

Nonsense. He is an al-qaeda sympathizer.

Silly, silly boy.

[gag order]

As for the issue of suicide bombing, I do not condemn all those pious scholars who differed on the issue; I just think that they erred in their ijtihad. I do NOT call them towel-head terrorists.if they had erred and certain people subscribe to that error then really you cant condemn them without first condemning the source of their error, right? at least try to be consistent.

On the other hand, many on this forum are terrorist lovers, evidenced by them putting up pictures of bin Ladin, Zarqawi, etc.the press put up pictures of bin laden, zarqawi etc are they also terrorist lovers?

you failed miserably to answer my initial points and flew off on tangent:

It is YOU who is playing the game of inconsistency. You are using Sh. Salman al-Oudah's or Shaykh al-Albani's fatwas to validate what you are doing, yet we both know that Shaykh Salman al-Oudah thinks of your group of people(the groups you support) as terrorists, and so did Sh. Al-Albani. my people??? this fatwa is of no relevance to me or the others but only highlights the difference of opinion that exist. so my charge that you are inconsistent still stands.

Once again, I never called anyone a terrorist or terrorist lover for allowing suicide bombing against purely military targets.alqaida often bombs military targets, and its rarely 'suicidal'. there is enough combat news footage to prove that point. so lets agree that their main focus is on combatants although the media under-reports it and chooses only to report the collateral damage they inflict while keeping quiet about the numerous and frequent atrocities of the coalition forces. what your doing is relaying false news just like them.

[Salahadeen]

if they had erred and certain people subscribe to that error then really you cant condemn them without first condemning the source of their error, right? at least try to be consistent.

Try following along, because I am tired of repeating this. I do not say that someone is a terrorist simply for believing it is permissible to suicide bomb against purely military targets, even though I myself take the view that suicide bombing is completely haram, even against purely military targets.


the press put up pictures of bin laden, zarqawi etc are they also terrorist lovers?

I already answered this, so why do you keep asking? There is a difference when the press puts up these pictures and when you jihadist kids do. You put them up because you love and adore them, whereas the media doesn't. If I put up a picture of Ayatollah Khomeini which was making fun of him, then this wouldn't make me a Shia sympathizer. But if someone put up his icon as Khomeini out of reverence for him, then this would make him a Rafidhi lover.


my people??? this fatwa is of no relevance to me or the others but only highlights the difference of opinion that exist. so my charge that you are inconsistent still stands.


There is no inconsistency, you blathering idiot.

I already repeated 100 times that I do not say that anyone is a terrorist for simply believing that suicide bombing is halal against purely military targets. I recognize that there is a difference of opinion.

My opposition to your kind of people has nothing to do with this, but rather it has to do with the fact that your kind targets non-combatants.


alqaida often bombs military targets,

Often is not always.

so lets agree that their main focus is on combatants although the media under-reports it and chooses only to report the collateral damage they inflict while keeping quiet about the numerous and frequent atrocities of the coalition forces. what your doing is relaying false news just like them.

Do you believe that Al-Qaeda did 9-11, yes or no? Was that against purely military targets, yes or no?

What's wrong w/ being that? I understand when people criticize particular actions of a certain group, but if you generalize, then you have to admit that you are dismissing as a whole the only organized international movement of Muslims that continues Jihaad fee-sabiliLllah.

I disagree. They are the only organized neo-khariji worldwide movement in existence today.

Silly, silly boy.

Silly, silly dog.

[Hamza]

Stop barking you moron, your views have been well cancelled out by the brothers. You filthy neo-cons are a laughing stock.

It doesnt matter how much you lick, you will always be labelled a scumbag modernist neo-con if you continue with this Jahilyah. Man your even worse, a damn extremist modernist. eediyat.

[Salah ad-Din]

Stop barking you moron, your views have been well cancelled out by the brothers. You filthy neo-cons are a laughing stock.

It doesnt matter how much you lick, you will always be labelled a scumbag modernist neo-con if you continue with this Jahilyah. Man your even worse, a damn extremist modernist. eediyat.


what a shame...

[Hamza]

yea it is, i should probably delete but il leave it, maybe it will help him froth. Doesnt it make people sick when creeps cry all day and night about 9/11 and 7/7 yet we have hundreds dying daily and they have no more tears, no more anger for their brethren.

I could not care less about 9/11, it dont pay my bills and it dont make me lose sleep. we dont know who did it, and we dont give a toss no more. How many more muslims must die before the blame is lifted?

Anyway I think the brothers should becareful when debating neo-cons because he is already labelling people as al-qaida sympathisers, next they will report you and get you locked up. I for one will try to ignore this cretin.

[Salahadeen]

yea it is, i should probably delete but il leave it, maybe it will help him froth. Doesnt it make people sick when creeps cry all day and night about 9/11 and 7/7 yet we have hundreds dying daily and they have no more tears, no more anger for their brethren.

I could not care less about 9/11, it dont pay my bills and it dont make me lose sleep. we dont know who did it, and we dont give a toss no more. How many more muslims must die before the blame is lifted?

Once again, you guys are getting quite desperate in your accusations against me. This is no doubt a necessity since you cannot refute my arguments, so you need to just smear my personality.

My heart cries out for the millions and millions of Muslims who are suffering in the world thanks to the Crusader-Zionist alliance. May Allah [swt] aid the Muslims in defeating the enemies of Islam.

You guys just can't accept that there could actually be someone who doesn't support Al-Qaeda or terrorists, but *does* support legitimate Jihad and Intifada; you can't believe that there is anyone who is opposed to the terrorists but who is ALSO opposed to the Crusaders and Zionists.

Again, you can't refute the arguments, so you smear the personality.

[Hamza]

May Allah [swt] aid the Muslims in defeating the enemies of Islam.Who is on the frontline? And who is making Dua on a online forum?

My heart cries out for the millions and millions of Muslims who are suffering in the world thanks to the Crusader-Zionist alliance.

Would you like a tissue?

[gag order]

I do not say that someone is a terrorist simply for believing it is permissible to suicide bomb against purely military targets, even though I myself take the view that suicide bombing is completely haram, even against purely military targets.so now its completely haram? before that you claimed it was just:

wrong ijtihad

and compared it to differences in permitted mattersi merely disagree with their opinion, just like you might disagree with where a certain scholar places his hands during prayer, i.e. chest or navel.you blathering idiot, your argument still lacks consistency!

I already answered this, so why do you keep asking? There is a difference when the press puts up these pictures and when you jihadist kids do. You put them up because you love and adore them, whereas the media doesn't.you didnt answer very well. again you are suggesting that the only valid use of the pictures is when proliferating neocon views which is what your doing. and besides i dont put pictures of them up anyway. my purpose is to think objectively about the 'news', and extract the facts from lopsided reporting they pass of as truth.

My opposition to your kind of people has nothing to do with this, but rather it has to do with the fact that your kind targets non-combatants.i can understand a kafir saying this to me, trying to give me the guilt trip for something i have no connection to whatsoever just becos i share the same religion or race.

Often is not always.we know from historical accounts that raids undertaken by the companions caused inadvertant deaths so as you say 'often is not always'

Do you believe that Al-Qaeda did 9-11, yes or no? Was that against purely military targets, yes or no? if i may speculate, 9/11 appears to be a reprisal rightly or wrongly for clintons indiscriminate cruise missle blitz in 1998. but as you say when 'often is not always' the pentagon should be a sufficient answer for you.

[Adeel]

Confused individual.

[Salahadeen]

Who is on the frontline? And who is making Dua on a online forum?

LOL the irony of that statement. You are the internet jihadi kid on an online forum.

so now its completely haram? before that you claimed it was just:

and compared it to differences in permitted matters you blathering idiot, your argument still lacks consistency!

It is entirely consistent, you bloody fool. *I* take the view that it is completely haram, but I acknowledge that others differ with this view. This is called a difference of opinion, you halfwit twit.

you didnt answer very well. again you are suggesting that the only valid use of the pictures is when proliferating neocon views which is what your doing.

I said nothing of the sort. Why must you always exaggerate and lie against me? Why must you stretch everything I say? I never said that it was a valid use of pictures. I merely said that when they do it, they are not showing loyalty to the ideals of said group, whereas you do.

i can understand a kafir saying this to me, trying to give me the guilt trip for something i have no connection to whatsoever just becos i share the same religion or race.

What do you mean "have no connection to whatsoever"? You sympathize with, love and adore the group which is responsible for such attacks. That makes you connected.

we know from historical accounts that raids undertaken by the companions caused inadvertant deaths so as you say 'often is not always'

They did not target non-combatants, as Al-Qaeda often does. Such as what the morons did in Pakistan, by bombing the Danish embassy and killing almost all Pakistanis. Not only are they terrorists but they are DUMB terrorists. They end up blowing themselves up and not even killing the right target.

if i may speculate, 9/11 appears to be a reprisal rightly or wrongly for clintons indiscriminate cruise missle blitz in 1998. but as you say when 'often is not always' the pentagon should be a sufficient answer for you.

The Muslims are to take action against the aggressors, and not civilians. If America, UK, or some other country attacks a Muslim country, then the Muslim country has the right (indeed the necessity) to strike back at the combatants, but by maintaining purity of arms. This means that they should not strike back at civilians, i.e. non-combatants.

Nobody denies the fact that the United Snakes of Amerikkka is responsible for great crimes against the Muslim countries. But this does not give any Muslim the right to intentionally take the life of a non-combatant.

['Abd al-Kareem]

You guys just can't accept that there could actually be someone who doesn't support Al-Qaeda or terrorists, but *does* support legitimate Jihad and Intifada; you can't believe that there is anyone who is opposed to the terrorists but who is ALSO opposed to the Crusaders and Zionists.
This is a false claim. I asked you before and you did not answer, so I will do so again:
If you claim to support jihad but not terrorists, then who in the world today is doing a legit jihad? Who do you consider not a terrorist but actually a mujahid?

[Abuz Zubair]

This is a false claim. I asked you before and you did not answer, so I will do so again:
If you claim to support jihad but not terrorists, then who in the world today is doing a legit jihad? Who do you consider not a terrorist but actually a mujahid?
The Bush Administration :)

[Salahadeen]

This is a false claim. I asked you before and you did not answer, so I will do so again:
If you claim to support jihad but not terrorists, then who in the world today is doing a legit jihad? Who do you consider not a terrorist but actually a mujahid?

There are even freedom fighters in Iraq who oppose Al-Qaeda and their extremist ways.

[Abuz Zubair]

I wonder if AbuAliTheRoman is a Madkhali agent provocateur. He comes here every now and then, sparks up these controversial topics and disappears.

[AbuUsama]

There are even freedom fighters in Iraq who oppose Al-Qaeda and their extremist ways.

Can you just name few of them

[Salahadeen]

Can you just name few of them

Are you denying that there has been "inter-Sunni" warfare in Iraq, where one side of freedom fighters opposes Al-Qaeda, accusing it of extremism? Should I pull up the relevant articles for you?

[abu_ibrahim]

Are you denying that there has been "inter-Sunni" warfare in Iraq, where one side of freedom fighters opposes Al-Qaeda, accusing it of extremism? Should I pull up the relevant articles for you?

They are apostates who now form the Awakening Councils.

[AbuUsama]

Are you denying that there has been "inter-Sunni" warfare in Iraq, where one side of freedom fighters opposes Al-Qaeda, accusing it of extremism? Should I pull up the relevant articles for you?

Well you just name few of them, I hope you are not referring PKK and Mahadhi army

[melo061]

They are apostates who now form the Awakening Councils.

The word apostate just rolls of your ilk's tongue doesn't it?

[Brother_Mujahid]

The word apostate just rolls of your ilk's tongue doesn't it?

And who are Abu Ibrahim's "ilk"? And how would you describe those who aid the mushrikun against the Muslims?

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

The word apostate just rolls of your ilk's tongue doesn't it?So the likes of the killed dog - al-Sattar - aren't apostates ?

[abu_ibrahim]

The word apostate just rolls of your ilk's tongue doesn't it?

Who are my "ilk"?

[Hamza]

Who are my "ilk"?

Next you will be a jihadi aq sympathiser. Takfeer has become a no-no until they have youtube videos of the apostates giving bayah to iblis.

[Ibn malik]

Are you denying that there has been "inter-Sunni" warfare in Iraq, where one side of freedom fighters opposes Al-Qaeda, accusing it of extremism? Should I pull up the relevant articles for you?
Oh I see. So your refering to the 'Sons of Iraq' and the 'Awakening' movements? Have you no shame?

"Oh Neo-Con", how can you expect to be taken seriously when you are calling people extremists for supporting Jihad, and while at the same time you are championing people who can only be described as 'collaboratros' (a term often used by your own neo-con ilk during the cold-war lol).

These so-called heros of your's who oppose 'al-Qaeda' are infact paid bandits who fight the ligitimate resistence, and one can find their equivilant in Somalia when the US paid infamouse war-lords known for rape and plunder to fight the 'extremists'. I wonder if those defeated 'heroes' were moarned by you. Did you make a du'a against the 'khawarij' in Somalia aswell?

P.S.
You keep raising the issue that Abuz Zubair lacks respect with regards to his knowledge and age, due to his supposed lack of manners. Well let me just say something very quickly regarding this 'terrorist sympathyser' from my own personal expirience.
I came to this forum considering Bin Baz (rahimahullah) to be a Kafir (a'udhubillah).
I honestly do not beleive anyone else could've convinced me that such a position of one of extremism, save AZ. Anyone else, be they Shaykh Haytham or Ayman, would've quickly been dismissed as 'sell-outs' and lacking fiqh al-waqi'.

It was because of the method of da'wah used by AZ that I gave him any consideration. I'm not saying this out of flattery, but to correct the nonesense that you spoke. I believe AZ can speak to young people (street kids like myself) better than other people, who in your opinion hold a better standing as scholars and students. Just because someone has a different way of doing da'wah from the norm, does not mean it doesn't have its uses, as AZ's definatly does. In a world where youngsters look for firebrands that pander to their 'gangster' mentality, AZ plays a significant role in guiding some of these youth.

Anyway, I have this forum (which you consider a terrorist haven) to thank for rectifying my affair, and through it Allah has guided me and saved me from extemism. Just because it hasn't manged to make a neo-con out of me, where I 'denounce' this muslim and that muslim, doesn't mean you can belittle the good it has done.

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

Who are my "ilk"?militants/extremists/fundamentalists/fanatics/non-conformists ...
Forget Carmelo and his ilk.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Who are my "ilk"?

I certainly hope I have that honor.

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

“Dust from the massacre has settled,
Covenants were fulfilled …
Birds were born,
While you remained sitting ...
Braying with the donkeys”

[anam]

Listening to this audio one will be able to recognize quickly the stupidity and clear cut agenda of this individual. A Madkhali with an open heart after reading this thread then hearing this short audio will see things better....Others may think they are being talked down to because of some opinions and views held..
A/K makes it quite clear that those who have performed martydom ops are from the Khawarij and have not performed Jihad.
The clear hatred for those who oppose his scholor and agenda have caused him to preach that killing the khawarij is obligatory while in another audio here: http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?p=127054#post127054 Abu Khadeeja was teaching that defensive Jihad is not always obligatory...now Fawzaan has said about a movement of irjaa' that is trying to curropt akida of Muslims and that anyone who opposes their views are called Khawarij..

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PUSDYCadkbk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PUSDYCadkbk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

copy title into youtube for parts 2 to 5

[anam]

Notice how he sais to fight against occupiers is not neccersary but fighting bughat is obligatory!

Why O Abu Khadeeja have you spared the blood of the khawarij in Birmingham?


And what about the usool of Ahlul Sunnah that we fight them when they fight us

and most of those called khawarij is slander and just words from ignorants
so innocent Muslims lose their lives because of these teachings

[Abuz Zubair]

I don't think Abu Khadija deserves the coverage he gets from us.

[ummafnaan]

I don't think Abu Khadija deserves the coverage he gets from us.

I thought the exact same thing. Although my blood boils everytime I hear his name. I never thought it was possible to hate a fellow muslim this bad.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

it annoys me to hear his followers arrogantly laugh

[abu_ibrahim]

I certainly hope I have that honor.

Yes bro, you are from my "Ilk" :)

[anam]

Differences in matters of Ijtihad are not differences in reality whilst there is an agreement upon following the Daleel (proof):



Allama Muhammad Salih Ibn al-Uthaymeen said, “The differences that originated from matters in which Ijtihad is valid are not differences in reality, because each of those who differed has followed what was obligatory on him in adhering to the proof which could not be rejected. So when they see that one of their brothers has differed with them in a certain issue in order to follow a proof, (then they saw this) as an agreement in reality, for all of them call to following the proof wherever it is. So if he differs with them whilst agreeing with a proof which he has with him, he is, truly, in agreement with them… I find it an obligation on the Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaah to unite, even if they differ, as long as what they differ on is based upon (the differences of) their understanding proofs; because this is a matter where there is easiness by the Grace of Allah and the important thing is for the hearts and the voices to unite. Undoubtedly, the enemies of Allah love for the Muslims to separate and divide - whether those enemies who declare their animosity or those who express friendship for Islam and Muslims but are not as they say. So it is obligatory that we adopt the distinguished characteristics of the saved group which is to unite with a single voice.” [Majmoo al-Fatawa war-Rasaail, vol. 1, p. 38-41]

[anam]

Do not generalize the rule of Ijtihad (that is accepting the difference of opinion) upon differences in Aqeedah (concerning which clear proofs are found in the Qur’aan and the Sunnah)



Shaikh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (rahimahullah) said: ‘A lot of innovators like the Khawarij, the Rawafid, the Qadariyyah, the Jahmiyyah, the Mushabbihah believe in deviant beliefs and they believe it to be the truth and believe that whosoever differs with them have committed Kufr and in them is a big resemblance to one of the qualities of Jews and Christians; which is to deny the truth and commit injustice to the people. Most of those who declare others as disbelievers consider a certain statement to be Kufr of which they do not understand the reality and do not know its proofs.



Contrary to them are those who approve of everyone whatever their deviation like what the scholars have approved in the issue of Ijtihad where there is room for differences, and this way has overcome many among the Murjiyah and some of the Jurisprudence, Sufis and the Philosophers just like the first way overcame many from the people of desires (Ahlul-Ahwa) and people of Kalaam (Ahlul-Kalam.) And both these ways are deviant and outside of the Book and the Sunnah.” [Majmoo al-Fatawa (vol. 12, p. 497)]



Shaikh al-Islam’s statement, “what the scholars have approved in the issue of Ijtihad where there is room for differences…” is a refutation of him, who generalizes the rule for Ijtihad upon differences in Aqeedah and the matters in which there is no room for Ijtihad because of the clear proofs that do not permit the person to stick to his corrupt way!

[Abu Maysara]

A/K makes it quite clear that those who have performed martydom ops are from the Khawarij and have not performed Jihad.
Why does that makes him so different from others holding the same opinion?
If someone from "Kibaar Al-U'lama says the same, then it is called Ijtihaad and saying something against him is "eating poisoned flesh", but it seems that its "open season" regards to A/K..strange all this infighting in the UK...Halaal for some and Haram for others..
Some say that the Da'wah is so strong in the UK and a lot of progress but i really see a lot of contradiction in the words and actions of some, correct me if i am wrong
(and no, i if anyone, not defending a/k..only surprised about the different standards applied)

[anam]

There is a difference with correcting someone with wisdom or just attacking his person or wishing his death


as for opposing someone or his words then this i have done

and your right about the dawah in U.K
yes there are many reverts and the message is in everyone's face
but were mostly jahil and busy destroying ourselves
and this isn't the fault of any kafir

[hussain]

Here's an interesting quote (or not, depending on one's opinion):

"The struggle for Jihad and the successes are for the sake of Allah and not to annoy His slaves. Our silence is our real propaganda. Refutations, explanations, or (attempted) corrections only waste your time and through such things our enemy wants to engage you in matters which are not of any real benefit. Such things just serve to divert you from the path."

[melo061]

militants/extremists/fundamentalists/fanatics/non-conformists ...
Forget Carmelo and his ilk.


Carmelo's ilk are the gangsters in Baltimore. I bet when you log of, you try and imitate them.

[melo061]

Next you will be a jihadi aq sympathiser. Takfeer has become a no-no until they have youtube videos of the apostates giving bayah to iblis.

correct:D

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

Carmelo's ilk are the gangsters in Baltimore. I bet when you log of, you try and imitate them.lol.

[abu_ibrahim]

Carmelo's ilk are the gangsters in Baltimore. I bet when you log of, you try and imitate them.

You use the "ilk" word a lot. I'm still waiting to see who my Ilk are exactly? http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=126643&postcount=83

[melo061]

You use the "ilk" word a lot. I'm still waiting to see who my Ilk are exactly? http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=126643&postcount=83

Pretty clear. The group who the word apostate rolls of their tongues quite easily and frequently. They can be see on this board.

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

Pretty clear. The group who the word apostate rolls of their tongues quite easily and frequently. They can be see on this board.ooh ... ooh
Am I from amongst them ?

[melo061]

ooh ... ooh
Am I from amongst them ?

Aren't you the same guy who said you were most shocked by Heath ledger's death? Nah, not you. You do not fit the profile.

[Mustafa al-Muhaajir]

Aren't you the same guy who said you were most shocked by Heath ledger's death? Nah, not you. You do not fit the profile.Darn.

[a bro]

sa wr wb

here are two short audios aboout what Shaykh Al Albani and Shaykh Ibn Utheymeen said about the Hukm of this action.

http://www.youtube.com/user/AbulQadisiyya

Shaykh al ALbani even said it is wajib for you to do it even if u dont want to , if the ameer of the jaysh commands u to do it !!!

i dont understand after hearing these audios how the Murjia can still claim they both forbid it, ajeeb

[Talib21]

Al-slamu Alaekum
Dear Brothers and Sisters;
The Holy Qur’an is the best, you should read the whole Qur’an and the explanation of the Qur’an before starting arguing in any Islamic subject.
There are many verses in the Holy Qur’an that forbid killing yourself.


وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلَّا بِالْحَقِّ وَمَنْ قُتِلَ مَظْلُومًا فَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا لِوَلِيِّهِ سُلْطَانًا فَلَا يُسْرِفْ فِي الْقَتْلِ إِنَّهُ كَانَ مَنْصُورًا. الاسراء (33)

And do not kill anyone whose killing Allâh has forbidden, except for a just cause. And whoever is killed wrongfully ( Mazlûman intentionally with hostility and oppression and not by mistake), We have given his heir the authority (to demand Qisâs , - Law of Equality in punishment - or to forgive, or to take Diyah (blood money)). But let him not exceed limits in the matter of taking life (i.e he should not kill except the killer). Verily, he is helped (by the Islâmic law). Al-Asraa (33)

وَالَّذِينَ لَا يَدْعُونَ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلَهًا آخَرَ وَلَا يَقْتُلُونَ النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلَّا بِالْحَقِّ وَلَا يَزْنُونَ وَمَنْ يَفْعَلْ ذَلِكَ يَلْقَ أَثَامًا يُضَاعَفْ لَهُ الْعَذَابُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَيَخْلُدْ فِيهِ مُهَانً (68) الفرقان
And those who invoke not any other ilâh (god) along with Allâh, nor kill such person as Allâh has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse - and whoever does this shall receive the punishment. Al-Furqaan-(68)

So, as Muslims, we should follow our Book and our Sunnah.

Wa jazakum Allah Kair

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

The Holy Qur’an is the best, you should read the whole Qur’an and the explanation of the Qur’an before starting arguing in any Islamic subject.
There are many verses in the Holy Qur’an that forbid killing yourself.



Brother, do you think that all of those 'ulama and mashayikh who allowed suicide/martyrdom bombings were ignorant of these two ayat???

The issue is much more complicated than you think.

[Islamiyyah]

O Suicide Bomber! You claim that your calamity is not a bidah/innovation yet who did the suicide bombing first? Muslims or other than them?

Was it not in WW2 The Japanese Kamikaazes inspired you to your endeavour, or the Mushrik Tamil Tigers in the chaos they spread by blowing themselves up?

And you claim this is an 'issue of fiqh'!!! Lo behold, knowledge of explosives has been available to us for the past 500-600 years yet never did we find the Muslims seeking to blow themselves up with gunpowder in suicide attacks, rather using it as aid not as a means of topping ourselves? This clearly is a newly invented matter. The Ottoman rulers, despite their bidah, never went to the excess of blowing themselves up, but putting explosive materials to good use such as cannonball cannons etc....imagine if they blew themselves up with the gunpowder...perhaps Istanbul would remain a Christian City with a few craters around it, named after those who blew themselves up!

May Allah rectify our affairs...


If only they were here to answer your silly question:rolleyes:

[Talib21]

Dear brother Abdullah I read a lot concerning suiside and martyrdom, You can find more evidances from Hadith and Shariah
I respect our mashayikh who support the idea of suiside, but there are many other mashayikh who do not support the same idea, so what I wanted to say is to comply with the Holy Qur'an and Hadith and the Sunah,

there are many Hadiths that clearify the issue, for example;

حديث انس رضي الله عنه
عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في الكبائر قال الشرك بالله وعقوق الوالدين وقتل النفس وقول الزور.

Anas, may Allah be pleased with him narrated
Regarding the major sins, the holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) observed: Associating anything with Allah, disobedince to parents, killing a person and fals utterance.



حَدَّثَنَا مُسَدَّدٌ حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ بْنُ زُرَيْعٍ حَدَّثَنَا خَالِدٌ عَنْ أَبِي قِلَابَةَ عَنْ ثَابِتِ بْنِ الضَّحَّاكِ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ مَنْ حَلَفَ بِمِلَّةٍ غَيْرِ الْإِسْلَامِ كَاذِبًا مُتَعَمِّدًا فَهُوَ كَمَا قَالَ وَمَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسَهُ بِحَدِيدَةٍ عُذِّبَ بِهِ فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ وَقَالَ حَجَّاجُ بْنُ مِنْهَالٍ حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرُ بْنُ حَازِمٍ عَنْ الْحَسَنِ حَدَّثَنَا جُنْدَبٌ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ فِي هَذَا الْمَسْجِدِ فَمَا نَسِينَا وَمَا نَخَافُ أَنْ يَكْذِبَ جُنْدَبٌ عَلَى النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ كَانَ بِرَجُلٍ جِرَاحٌ فَقَتَلَ نَفْسَهُ فَقَالَ اللَّهُ بَدَرَنِي عَبْدِي بِنَفْسِهِ حَرَّمْتُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ
ِِAl-Bukari 1275
Wa Alsalamu Alikum

[mujahid el-khalifa]

O Suicide Bomber! You claim that your calamity is not a bidah/innovation yet who did the suicide bombing first? Muslims or other than them?

Was it not in WW2 The Japanese Kamikaazes inspired you to your endeavour, or the Mushrik Tamil Tigers in the chaos they spread by blowing themselves up?

And you claim this is an 'issue of fiqh'!!! Lo behold, knowledge of explosives has been available to us for the past 500-600 years yet never did we find the Muslims seeking to blow themselves up with gunpowder in suicide attacks, rather using it as aid not as a means of topping ourselves? This clearly is a newly invented matter. The Ottoman rulers, despite their bidah, never went to the excess of blowing themselves up, but putting explosive materials to good use such as cannonball cannons etc....imagine if they blew themselves up with the gunpowder...perhaps Istanbul would remain a Christian City with a few craters around it, named after those who blew themselves up!

May Allah rectify our affairs...

few questions

first: what do mean by the roman(your screen name), do you want to say the crusader?

second: why is you comment not based on islamic evidence?

third: if you see for instance you mother or your sisters being raped in front of you, would you waint for your sheikha raabi'aa al madkhali to give you permission to defend them? or would you just go to the internet and open your mouth?

and finally do you know what is the real colour of chameleon?

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

Dear brother Abdullah I read a lot concerning suiside and martyrdom, You can find more evidances from Hadith and Shariah
I respect our mashayikh who support the idea of suiside, but there are many other mashayikh who do not support the same idea, so what I wanted to say is to comply with the Holy Qur'an and Hadith and the Sunah,

there are many Hadiths that clearify the issue, for example;

حديث انس رضي الله عنه
عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في الكبائر قال الشرك بالله وعقوق الوالدين وقتل النفس وقول الزور.

Anas, may Allah be pleased with him narrated
Regarding the major sins, the holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) observed: Associating anything with Allah, disobedince to parents, killing a person and fals utterance.



حَدَّثَنَا مُسَدَّدٌ حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ بْنُ زُرَيْعٍ حَدَّثَنَا خَالِدٌ عَنْ أَبِي قِلَابَةَ عَنْ ثَابِتِ بْنِ الضَّحَّاكِ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ مَنْ حَلَفَ بِمِلَّةٍ غَيْرِ الْإِسْلَامِ كَاذِبًا مُتَعَمِّدًا فَهُوَ كَمَا قَالَ وَمَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسَهُ بِحَدِيدَةٍ عُذِّبَ بِهِ فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ وَقَالَ حَجَّاجُ بْنُ مِنْهَالٍ حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرُ بْنُ حَازِمٍ عَنْ الْحَسَنِ حَدَّثَنَا جُنْدَبٌ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ فِي هَذَا الْمَسْجِدِ فَمَا نَسِينَا وَمَا نَخَافُ أَنْ يَكْذِبَ جُنْدَبٌ عَلَى النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ كَانَ بِرَجُلٍ جِرَاحٌ فَقَتَلَ نَفْسَهُ فَقَالَ اللَّهُ بَدَرَنِي عَبْدِي بِنَفْسِهِ حَرَّمْتُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ
ِِAl-Bukari 1275
Wa Alsalamu Alikum
<!-- / message -->

Talib21: I personally don't "support" suicide/martyrdom operations, rather I believe they should be avoided.

However, the evidences that you have quoted are not sufficient proof against what they are doing. If you bring an ayah or a hadith which says: "do not kill someone", do we then say that each and every kind of killing is haram in all cases? No, what is meant is killing someone unjustly.

As for the ahadith about suicide, they are responded to by saying that it depends on why a person killed himself. If he did it because he hated his life and wanted to escape, then yes that is the suicide that is punishable by the hell-fire.

However, they say that a suicide bomber does not have this intention, rather he is sacrificing himself thus it is a noble thing deserving of reward.

Like you, I have my reasons why I do not support the idea of "suicide" bombing, however the evidences that you have quoted are insufficient in themself to prove that it is wrong, wallahu a'lam.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

first: what do mean by the roman(your screen name), do you want to say the crusader?



Do you think that no romans, persians, greeks, americans, english people ever became Muslims?

What's wrong with a person from a particular ethnic background saying that he is from it? What does it have to do with being a "crusader"?

second: why is you comment not based on islamic evidence?


Those scholars who have argued against "suicide bombing" have provided shar'i evidences.

third: if you see for instance you mother or your sisters being raped in front of you, would you waint for your sheikha raabi'aa al madkhali to give you permission to defend them? or would you just go to the internet and open your mouth?


What does that necessarily have to do with the ruling on "suicide bombings"???

[mujahid el-khalifa]

Do you think that no romans, persians, greeks, americans, english people ever became Muslims?

What's wrong with a person from a particular ethnic background saying that he is from it? What does it have to do with being a "crusader"?



Those scholars who have argued against "suicide bombing" have provided shar'i evidences.



What does that necessarily have to do with the ruling on "suicide bombings"???


first of all these questions werent addressed to you so learn some A'daab

but if you insist than,

do you think if tomorrow the pope embrace islam (inchaAllah) he would call himself the christian muslim?

Islam comes before all these nationalities you mentioned.
nationalism tribalism, americanism, romanism are all HARAAM is islam,
take it or leave it.

for all muslims who have some educational background about history know that the term roman or romans means crusaders.


your quote :
"Those scholars who have argued against "suicide bombing" have provided shar'i evidences".

be more specific, and dont go arround, go straight to the point and give names of those scholars who fears Allah azza wa jall not the taghoot

['Abd al-Kareem]

One of the Sahabah is called Suhaib al-Rumi (RA). [Suhaib the Roman].

[mujahid el-khalifa]

One of the Sahabah is called Suhaib al-Rumi (RA). [Suhaib the Roman].

1:between being called and to love and persist to be called are two
differences

2: are you comparing this roman individual to a sahabi?

you must be out of your mind

['Abd al-Kareem]

You asked him why he would call himself Abu Ali the Roman. He never even got a chance to respond yet...so I don't know what you are talking about.

[mujahid el-khalifa]

You asked him why he would call himself Abu Ali the Roman. He never even got a chance to respond yet...so I don't know what you are talking about.
exactly you dont know what i'm talking about and the reason is because the questions werent addressed to you in the first place.

[Um Abdullah M.]

mujahid el-khalifa said:

((do you think if tomorrow the pope embrace islam (inchaAllah) he would call himself the christian muslim?

Islam comes before all these nationalities you mentioned.
nationalism tribalism, americanism, romanism are all HARAAM is islam,
take it or leave it.

for all muslims who have some educational background about history know that the term roman or romans means crusaders.))



You have 2 sahabah who were called by their ethnicity/nationality:
Suhaib ar-Rumi
and
Salman al Farisi

There could be other sahabah too.

There are also many many scholars of Islam who had their nationality/ethnicity/tribe mentioned in their name
like:
al Basri
al Naisaburi
al Qurtubi
at Talamanki
al Iraqi
al Habashi
at Tamimi
al Kinani
Al Hashimi
..etc.

[mujahid el-khalifa]

mujahid el-khalifa said:

((do you think if tomorrow the pope embrace islam (inchaAllah) he would call himself the christian muslim?

Islam comes before all these nationalities you mentioned.
nationalism tribalism, americanism, romanism are all HARAAM is islam,
take it or leave it.

for all muslims who have some educational background about history know that the term roman or romans means crusaders.))



You have 2 sahabah who were called by their ethnicity/nationality:
Suhaib ar-Rumi
and
Salman al Farisi

There could be other sahabah too.

There are also many many scholars of Islam who had their nationality/ethnicity/tribe mentioned in their name
like:
al Basri
al Naisaburi
al Qurtubi
at Talamanki
al Iraqi
al Habashi
at Tamimi
al Kinani
Al Hashimi
..etc.

I REPEAT AGAIN, MY QUESTIONS ARE ADDRESSED ONLY AND ONLY TO THE ROMAN

however, i'm fully aware of these Sahaba rathiya Allahu an'huma ajmi'ain names but what i'm questioning is this individual's ( the roman) aqeedah, who seems to know Ilmu ul-Ghaib wal ghiyathu bilAllah.


and this is my answer to the roman :


There are number of mujahideen and scholars who deem martyrdom operations as permissible. However whether martyrdom operations are permissible or not is irrelevant to the fact that “unjust “ murder of so-called innocent people (jebrews and crusaders) does not expel one from islam. Therefore how is it that these moderates and bogus salafis (talafi) turn to the manhaj of the khawaarij on this matter?

Even in fiqh , if a muslim kills a non- muslim unjustly , he is not expelled from islam and nor is he killed in retribution, as the messenger Mohammad sala Allahu alihi wasalam said: A muslim is not killed (in retribution) for a kaffir,
( musnad al-Imaam ahmad.).

Whether martyrdom operations carriers are in hell or in heaven is not a matter for us to decide, as this is part of Ilmu ul-Ghaib, and only Allah azza wa jall knows.

It is not for us or the scholars like Ibn Uthaymeen or al fawzaan to declare they will never be in heaven, or they will be in hellfire.
Moreover, if martyrdom operations are interpreted as suicide by some, then suicide is a major sin in islam NOT KUFR, so anyone who excludes such individuals from islam is following the manhaj of khawaarij.

However, killing muslims by lebelling them as khawaarij , allying with disbelievers against muslims and handing them over to the enemy as the bogus salafis and moderates and their scholars deem to be necessary is a major kufr and apostasy.

[Um Abdullah M.]

well brother Ali the Roman already said what he meant by "Roman" in his name, I think he spoke about it in Multaqa ahl hadeeth
I have to check, but I remember him talking about it.

[Um Abdullah M.]

ok here it is, his explanation regarding "The Roman" in his name:

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showpost.php?p=5265&postcount=23

((Asalaamu alaykm wrwb

1)The word 'Roman' in my forum name is a translation of my laqb:
Abu Ali Al-Rumee,

where the word Rumee here in the Arabic language being from Al-Room الروم meaning Bani Asfar...ie The Europeans.

2)I dont speak Italian.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->))

[mujahid el-khalifa]

ok here it is, his explanation regarding "The Roman" in his name:

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showpost.php?p=5265&postcount=23

((Asalaamu alaykm wrwb

1)The word 'Roman' in my forum name is a translation of my laqb:
Abu Ali Al-Rumee,

where the word Rumee here in the Arabic language being from Al-Room الروم meaning Bani Asfar...ie The Europeans.

2)I dont speak Italian.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->))

sister you are unfortunately not reading my posts

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT HIS NAME, he can call himself jihsh or whatever, i'm more interested in his AQEEDAH

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

first of all these questions werent addressed to you so learn some A'daab

Mujahid el-khalifa:

All of your posts on this forum so far have reeked of rudeness and hostility. I would say that it is you who needs to learn some adab. This is a public discussion forum where everyone is allowed to be involved.


but if you insist than,

do you think if tomorrow the pope embrace islam (inchaAllah) he would call himself the christian muslim?


No, because "christian" is a religion, whilst "roman" is an ethnicity.

Islam comes before all these nationalities you mentioned.
nationalism tribalism, americanism, romanism are all HARAAM is islam,
take it or leave it.


Simply calling oneself "the roman", "the persian", "the qurashi", "the qahtani", "the mauritanian" etc. is not any of these things. What about all of the mujahidun who are called "al-misri", "al-'iraqi", "al-shami", "al-afghani", al-shishani" etc. You wouldn't accuse them of nationalism or tribalism.

for all muslims who have some educational background about history know that the term roman or romans means crusaders.


Excuse me? "Roman" means someone from the lands of the former roman empire. If you had an educational background yourself, you would know that the Muslim lands of present-day Turkey and their Muslim inhabitants were called "al-rumi", "bilad al-rum" etc. well into Islamic Ottoman times. (They had previously been lands of the Byzantine Romans.) It has nothing to do with religion.


your quote :
"Those scholars who have argued against "suicide bombing" have provided shar'i evidences".

be more specific, and dont go arround, go straight to the point and give names of those scholars who fears Allah azza wa jall not the taghoot


Firstly, it was not my purpose from the beginning to debate the hukm of suicide/martyrdom operations.

Secondly, just because someone disagrees with these operations does not necessarily make him a defeatist, anti-jihad lapdog of the "tawaghit".

Thirdly, you appear to be making a fiqh issue like this in which the scholars have differed into an issue of al-wala' wal-bara'.

Advice: Chill out. Take a walk or something, maybe get married if you're not already.

[Talib21]

<!-- / message -->

Talib21: I personally don't "support" suicide/martyrdom operations, rather I believe they should be avoided.

However, the evidences that you have quoted are not sufficient proof against what they are doing. If you bring an ayah or a hadith which says: "do not kill someone", do we then say that each and every kind of killing is haram in all cases? No, what is meant is killing someone unjustly.

As for the ahadith about suicide, they are responded to by saying that it depends on why a person killed himself. If he did it because he hated his life and wanted to escape, then yes that is the suicide that is punishable by the hell-fire.

However, they say that a suicide bomber does not have this intention, rather he is sacrificing himself thus it is a noble thing deserving of reward.

Like you, I have my reasons why I do not support the idea of "suicide" bombing, however the evidences that you have quoted are insufficient in themself to prove that it is wrong, wallahu a'lam.

Barak Allah Feek brother Abdullah
Thank you for your reply and your time , What I wanted to say, there is no Aya or Hadith that support the idea of suiside but what I found is against that
because I am very interested in Qur'an and Hadith,
Do you have any evidence from Qur'an and Hadith only that support the idea of suicide?

Wa Jazak Allah Kair

[a bro]

Read what the shuyukh who allowed it said, Shaykh Albani , ibn Utheymeen , Ulwaan, Awdah and so on , they gave the evidences from Kitab and Sunnah.

There are maaaany evidences

[Magoo]

this has been discussed before, its a fiqhi issue of a contemporary nature, the contemporary scholars have differed upon it, some says its allowed under certain conditions, other say it is not allowed under any condition

i think there was a thread on the issue somewhere so if someone could dig it up we could stop going round in circles insha'allah

[Brother_Mujahid]

I think there are actually a couple threads on this topic, with vast collections of fatawa from the ulema. Hasn't enough time been wasted recovering the same ground over and over again?

[Talib21]

Read what the shuyukh who allowed it said, Shaykh Albani , ibn Utheymeen , Ulwaan, Awdah and so on , they gave the evidences from Kitab and Sunnah.

There are maaaany evidences

Dear a bro,
could you show me just one evidence from Kitab or Sunnah, because I have been asked many times to give an evidence from Our'an or Hadith only with the idea of suicide but I could not find any.

Jazak Allah Kair

[justabro]

Dear a bro,
could you show me just one evidence from Kitab or Sunnah, because I have been asked many times to give an evidence from Our'an or Hadith only with the idea of suicide but I could not find any.

Jazak Allah Kair

there is something in fiqh called nawazil, or new issues which did not exist before. these are not governed by any direct texts... suicide bombing is one of them... it did not exist in the time of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم)... therefore, one must look at the qawa'id of the shari'ah that can be derived from those texts and see if it is valid in that light or not...

as mentioned, there are numerous fatwas from both sides of this issue which you can read for yourself... both sides have their evidences from the Qur'an and Sunnah that they rely upon...

however, if you're expecting to find a hadith saying, "suicide bombing is haram" or "suicide bombing is halal", then that has nothing to do with fiqh whatsoever

[oneummah]

you know i have looked deeply at the situation of the muslims especially palestine. and i would justify their suicide bombings, because when there women are raped, there mothers are abused, their fathers are killed and their sons are forced to drink pee, and they have no amunitions, no weapons, no place to go- then yes suicide is the only answer. what would they do- sit back and see their women raped? heck no. subhanallah i'd rather be dead then to see my sister or mother raped. and that is why every muslim should understand and think outside of the box before jumping to conclusions. you're not in the situation of these "suicide bombers", if you were you wouldn't really say what you said. they're doing this because there's nothing else for them to defend their deen, and their people. you can agree or disagree but this is my honest point of view. peace.

[Abu Thar]

according to Shaykh Al Albani it isnt Suicide but Jihaad fi sabilillah

and also other shuyukh share his views

[Talib21]

there is something in fiqh called nawazil, or new issues which did not exist before. these are not governed by any direct texts... suicide bombing is one of them... it did not exist in the time of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم)... therefore, one must look at the qawa'id of the shari'ah that can be derived from those texts and see if it is valid in that light or not...

as mentioned, there are numerous fatwas from both sides of this issue which you can read for yourself... both sides have their evidences from the Qur'an and Sunnah that they rely upon...

however, if you're expecting to find a hadith saying, "suicide bombing is haram" or "suicide bombing is halal", then that has nothing to do with fiqh whatsoever

Sure I dont expect to find a hadith saying, suicide bombing is haram but there are many Hadith saying suicide is Haram.
63. Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) observed: He who killed himself with steel (weapon) would be the eternal denizen of the Fire of Hell and he would have that weapon in his hand and would be thrusting it in his stomach for ever and ever; he who drank poison and killed himself would sip that in the Fire of Hell where he is doomed for ever and ever; and he who killed himself by throwing himself from (the top of) a mountain would constantly fall in the Fire of Hell and would live there for ever and ever


63 حَدِيثُ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسَهُ بِحَدِيدَةٍ فَحَدِيدَتُهُ فِي يَدِهِ يَتَوَجَّأُ بِهَا فِي بَطْنِهِ فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ خَالِدًا مُخَلَّدًا فِيهَا أَبَدًا وَمَنْ شَرِبَ سَمًّا فَقَتَلَ نَفْسَهُ فَهُوَ يَتَحَسَّاهُ فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ خَالِدًا مُخَلَّدًا فِيهَا أَبَدًا وَمَنْ تَرَدَّى مِنْ جَبَلٍ فَقَتَلَ نَفْسَهُ فَهُوَ يَتَرَدَّى فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ خَالِدًا مُخَلَّدًا فِيهَا أَبَدًا *

Sure I don't expect to find a Hadith saying suicide bombing is haram but there are many Hadith saying suicide is Haram

63. Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) observed: He who killed himself with steel (weapon) would be the eternal denizen of the Fire of Hell and he would have that weapon in his hand and would be thrusting it in his stomach for ever and ever; he who drank poison and killed himself would sip that in the Fire of Hell where he is doomed for ever and ever; and he who killed himself by throwing himself from (the top of) a mountain would constantly fall in the Fire of Hell and would live there for ever and ever


حَدِيثُ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسَهُ بِحَدِيدَةٍ فَحَدِيدَتُهُ فِي يَدِهِ يَتَوَجَّأُ بِهَا فِي بَطْنِهِ فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ خَالِدًا مُخَلَّدًا فِيهَا أَبَدًا وَمَنْ شَرِبَ سَمًّا فَقَتَلَ نَفْسَهُ فَهُوَ يَتَحَسَّاهُ فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ خَالِدًا مُخَلَّدًا فِيهَا أَبَدًا وَمَنْ تَرَدَّى مِنْ جَبَلٍ فَقَتَلَ نَفْسَهُ فَهُوَ يَتَرَدَّى فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ خَالِدًا مُخَلَّدًا فِيهَا أَبَدًا
صدق رسول الله

and it is very well-known that Quran and Hadith is the main source of Figh and Fatwas,

wa jazak Allah kair

[Abu Thar]

are u able to read ??? dont come up with the same over and over again

according to Shaykh Al Albani (and other Shuyuukh) it isnt Suicide but Jihaad fi sabilillah

[isha-h]

what would they do- sit back and see their women raped? heck no. subhanallah i'd rather be dead then to see my sister or mother raped. and that is why every muslim should understand and think outside of the box before jumping to conclusions.

excellent point sis oneummah !

[intheheartofgreenbirds]

Calling such operations "suicide" is haraam by doing that you are condemning them to jahannam