The "Saudi" dialect

[Ibn Adam]

That Egyptians pronounce the ج like an English 'g' is well known but prior to arriving in Saudi I was unaware that the Saudis pronounce the ق like the English 'g.'

Does anyone know when this crept into the language?

I'm assuming that being the land of the Sahaba the language here was pure for a substantial time, but I'm just curious if anyone has any info as to why, when or how this variant letter pronunciation came to dominate the people of this land.

[hearandobey]

it's not just the saudis. iraqis, kuwaitis and other gulf arabs do that too.

for example: قل له is gul lah

i too don't know why it's like that...

[Ibn Adam]

I didn't realise others did it to.

I just find it confusing to hear sometimes.

Like a kid in my class might find a pencil on the floor and hold it aloft saying "haggi meem?"

I understand what he's saying it just sounded weird the first couple of times I heard it.

[hshad]

I'm assuming that being the land of the Sahaba the language here was pure for a substantial time, but I'm just curious if anyone has any info as to why, when or how this variant letter pronunciation came to dominate the people of this land.

It doesn't have to come from outside influence. We should remember that the dialect of Qur'an is the dialect of the tribe of Quraysh, and it's known that Rasoolullah (saw) was given the ability to speak all the Arabic dialects. I gather from this that it's possible that ق had been pronounced as ga pre-Islam.

The other possibility is the influence of Persia/Persian language. We sometimes think that other Arabic speaking countries have had outside influence but not Arabia, which is not true. There was persian influence especially in places like Iraq/Kuwait and Hijaaz.

[AnonyMousey]

Syrians drop the qaaf altogether... so 'qahwa' becomes 'ahwa'... whereas the Saudis will say 'gahwa'.
With all the different dialects, I despair of learning conversational Arabic :(

[KnowledgeSeeker]

...
The other possibility is the influence of Persia/Persian language. We sometimes think that other Arabic speaking countries have had outside influence but not Arabia, which is not true. There was persian influence especially in places like Iraq/Kuwait and Hijaaz.

I doubt that, at least insofar as the prononounciation of the "qaaf" is concerned because speakers of Persian in Iran, Tajikistan, and Afghanistan pronounce it the "proper" (i.e. Fusha) way.

[Umm Ahmed]

Its only the Egyptians that have the G like the English G , all other Arabs say it like the khaleej

[Abu Maysara]

With all the different dialects, I despair of learning conversational Arabic

No, dont despair. Learn Fushaa first of all, thats the most important , in order to absorb the knowledge. Conversational arabic will come naturally inshAllah, by mixing with arabic speaking from different countries, you will then learn the different dialects as well InshAllah. But put the emphasis on al Fushaa, as thats the key to learning the Deen from its original sources, freeing oneself from relying on translated works that sometimes are not correct.

[Um Abdullah M.]

In Tunisia and Morroco (and I think Algeria too) they pronounce qaf = qaf, unchanged.
while in Libya and all or most Gulf countries they pronounce it as "g"
as for Egypt and Sham area (Syria, Jordan ..etc.) they don't pronounce it.

[Fajr]

It doesn't have to come from outside influence. We should remember that the dialect of Qur'an is the dialect of the tribe of Quraysh, and it's known that Rasoolullah (saw) was given the ability to speak all the Arabic dialects.

Yeah, there were a few dialects around at the time of the Prophet (s) e.g. from ahlal Yemen, areas of Najd & other tribes etc

There's also the hadeeth:

ليس من امبر امصيام في امسفر

It's upon the dialect of some tribes from Yemen where they exchange the lam al-ta'reef (in 'Al') for a meem, so it's pronounced 'Am-birr' instead of 'Al-birr' and Am-siyam instead of Al-siyam etc.

Ibn Hajr (rh) commented on this hadeeth saying that it's possible the Prophet (s) pronounced it this way because he was speaking to Ka'b ibn 'Asim whose lahja this was, or its possible that Ka'b narrated this hadeeth via his own Yemeni dialect.

There's ikhtilaf on the authenticity of the riwayah itself but it's quite interesting and shows you the variation of the different dialects even within hadeeth, wallahu a'lam.

There was a discussion on this previously at Multaqa (http://ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?t=123857)

[izzi]

In Tunisia and Morroco (and I think Algeria too) they pronounce qaf = qaf, unchanged.
while in Libya and all or most Gulf countries they pronounce it as "g"
as for Egypt and Sham area (Syria, Jordan ..etc.) they don't pronounce it.

there are areas in morrocco where they pronounce the qaaf as gaaf as well like in the khaleej...

[hearandobey]

this article explains the different dialects, their names and characteristics. apparently they all existed before islam!

تطور اللغة العربية (http://www.moe.edu.kw/schools-2/hawally/secondaryschools/boys/jaber%20alahmad/My%20Web%20Sites/departs/arabic6.htm)


اللغة العربية تفرعت عن شجرة لغات تسمى باللغات السامية نسبة إلى سام بن نوح وهي اللغات الآرامية والكنعانية والعربية ، والآرامية هي أصل الكلدانية والآشورية والسريانية ، والكنعانية هي أصل العبرانيةو الفينيقية ، وهناك ظواهر لغوية مشتركة بين هذه اللغات اعتنى بها الدراسون في علم اللغة ، وقد قيل إن العربية هي أقرب الأصول الثلاثة إلى اللغة الأم .
واللغات عادة من شأنها التطور الدائم ، حتى اللغة العربية نفسها ليس وضعها بعد الإسلام كوضعها قبله ؛ فقد كانت في اللغة العربية لهجات متفرقة مختلفة وجدت عدة عوامل أدت إلى توحدها فيما بعد في لهجة قريش ، من هذه اللهجات :
ـ الكشكشة : وهي في ربيعة ومضر وتنسب لأسد ، يجعلون بعد كاف الخطاب في المؤنث شينا فيقولون رأيتكش وبكش وعليكش ، فمنهم من يثبتها حالة الوقف فقط وهو الأشهر ، ومنهم من يثبتها في الوصل أيضا ، ومنهم من يجعلها مكان الكاف ويكسرها في الوصل ويسكنها في الوقف فيقول : منش وعليش.
ـ الكسكسة : وهي في ربيعة ومضر يجعلون بعد الكاف أو مكانها في المذكر سينا على ما تقدم وقصدوا بذلك الفرق بينهما.
ـ العنعنـة : وهي في لغة قيس وتميم وكثير من العرب ، وهي جعل الهمزة المبدوء بها عينا فيقولون في أنك عنك وفي أسلم عسلم وفي أذن عذن .
ـ الوكـم : في لغة ربيعة وهم قوم من كلب يقولون : عليكِم وبكِم حيث كان قبل الكاف ياء أو كسرة.
ـ الوهـم : في لغة كلب يقولون : منهِم وعنهِم وبينهِم وإن لم يكن قبل الهاء ياء ولا كسرة .
ـ العجعجة : في لغة قضاعة يجعلون الياء المشددة جيما يقولون في تميمي تميمج.
ـ الاستنطاء : في لغة سعد بن بكر وهذيل والأزد وقيس والأنصار تجعل العين الساكنة نونا إذا جاورت الطاء كأنطي في أعطي.
ـ الوتــم : في لغة اليمن تجعل السين تاء كالنات في الناس.
ـ الشنشنة : في لغة اليمن تجعل الكاف شينا مطلقا كلبيش اللهم لبيش أي لبيك ، ومن العرب من يجعل الكاف جيما كالجعبة يريد الكعبة.
ـ الخـرم : وهو زيادة حرف الكلام لا الذي في العروض كقوله :
ولا للما بهم أبـدا دواء
وقول الراجز :
وصاليات ككما يؤثفين
ـ اللخلخانية : تعرض في لغة أعراب الشحر وعمان ، وهي قولهم : مشا الله كان ، يريدون ما شاء الله كان.
ـ الطمطمانية : تعرض في لغة حمير ، وهي قولهم : طاب امهواء أي طاب الهواء .
ـ التلتلة : عند بهراء ، وهي كسر أوائل الأفعال المضارعة.
كل هذه ظواهر لغوية رديئة اعتنى بجمعها وتفسيرها بعض الدارسين المحدثين كالدكتور إبراهيم أنيس ومن ينقلون عنه.
والخلاصة أن القول بأن اللغة العربية تفرعت عن لغة أخرى قول صحيح لكن هذه اللغة الأم قد درس رسمها وتأبدت معالمها ولم يعد لها إلا ما تناثر في فروعها من اللغات المنبثقة عنها .

jzk sis fajr for the link to the tamtamaniya dialect... i find myself doing quite a few of the ones listed above when i speak my native dialect lol

[Abu Ma'mar]

Yemen has more than one dialect in the country.

San'aa has its own, Aden has its own, Ta'izz has its own and Tihaam has its own. They are close but have differences.

The Tihaami dialect is different from all dialects in any country as it replaces the Alif and Lam in front of a word with Am so instead of Al-Bayt it would be Am-Bayt, and this type of speech was at the time of the prophet (saw).

And also like other dialects you don't put a seen in front of a verb if you want future tense like in Fus-ha but you place a Sheen instead.

[hearandobey]

And also like other dialects you don't put a seen in front of a verb if you want future tense like in Fus-ha but you place a Sheen instead.

i've heard iraqis and kuwaitis do that too.

fusha: sa-aqool

'ammiya: sh-agool

[Abuz Zubair]

الطمطمانية : تعرض في لغة حمير ، وهي قولهم : طاب امهواء أي طاب الهواء .
The Prophet SAW reportedly responded to someone from Himyar in his own dialect.

ليس من امبر امصيام في امسفر

[Abu Ma'mar]

Yes thats the Tihaami dialect.

Laysa min al-bir al-Siyaam fi al-safr.

Humayr were the group of people who used to rule yemen in Jahiliyya times.