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alghayb
21st July 2008, 04:52 PM
For those interested.

In the current climate he needs to be exposed even more, things have gone quiet on him.

It is the Fundamentalist and Extremist Christian-Zionist, Reverend Dr. Alan C. Clifford, Pastor of the Norwich Reformed Church (http://www.nrchurch.co.nr/) in Eaton.

Supports the BNP:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/003037.php
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/002765.php
http://simondarby.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2007/08/wilders-enough-is-enough.html#comment-883336488370974003

His Churches anti-Islam section: http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islam.html

The below letter of his recently appeared in the Shropshire Star. I will scan it shortly.

Can Islam Distance Itself From Violence

‘As a Christian minister in Norwich, I am gravely concerned at the deceptive and misleading information you published about Islam (Concrete, May 18). If the UEA Islam Society is trying to create a ‘new perception’ of Islam, will its members distance themselves from the intolerance and violence clearly sanctioned by the Qur'an and reinforced in the Hadith against Jews, Christians and others? The intention to ‘forge a culture of tolerance in a world that is quick to judge’ is welcome. However, such a democratic attitude is not consistent with Muhammad’s teaching. Indeed, the Saudi Ambassador made it clear last year that democracy and Islam do not mix. .

‘Furthermore, what about religious freedom, a basic feature of Western democracy? Are Muslims free to embrace a different religion if that is their choice? The answer is ‘No’. I am in receipt of a letter from an ex-Muslim lady who lives in secrecy here in the UK for fear of her life. The subjugation of women is another unwelcome feature of Islam, clearly and unambiguously taught in the Qur'an. Lastly, does the UEA Islam Society intend to urge Islamic governments to grant freedom to Christians, the very freedom Muslims expect here in the UK? I ask this in view of almost-daily reports of Christians being butchered for their faith by Muslims.

‘You will clearly see that my objections to Islam are not the ill-informed ‘quick-to-judge’ response identified in your article. Indeed, I make other very serious criticisms of Islam on our church website (www.geocities.com/nrchurch). Until the UEA Society and others face up to these criticisms, they cannot be surprised if the ‘old perception’ of Islam persists. The question is: can Islam really alter its image without repudiating the Qu’ranic basis of all it stands for?’

The Reverend Dr Alan C Clifford
Pastor, Norwich Reformed Church



Christianity, Islam and British Politics
[I]A lecture given at the UK Conservatism Conference
Oxford Brookes University

Dr Alan C. Clifford
BA, MLitt, PhD

A glut of highly significant secular and religious autumn anniversaries provides a stimulating context for my subject. Using more broadly the now-universal convention of identifying momentous events like New York’s ‘9/11’, Madrid’s ‘3/11’ and London’s ‘7/7’, I cite first some famous secular examples from more distant history. First, we may recall ‘10/14’, the Battle of Hastings, the last of four major invasions of the British Isles in a millennium by ‘Europeans’ - 1066 and all that, of course! Then, more positively in this bicentenary year, there’s ‘10/21’ when ‘Europe’ was on the receiving end of Lord Nelson’s decisive broadsides at the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805. Not until 1940 was this country seriously threatened again by a foreign power. I pass by ‘10/25’ in 1415. Agincourt, Henry V and the savage nationalism of the Hundred Years War warrant national shame rather than pride. Indeed, driven by the power-hungry Plantagenets, the whole era has something of an ‘Iraq War whiff’ about it! Another noted ‘10/25’ was of course the distant Crimean Battle of Balaclava in 1854. Inglorious for the British High Command, the heroism of ‘the six hundred’ is justly celebrated. Stepping into November, and closer to home, we rightly remember annually the enormous costly sacrifice represented by ‘11/11’, the Armistice of 1918, when the four-year horror of the First World War came to an end.

Turning to religious anniversaries of great national significance, ‘10/16’ should also be recalled, especially in this university city of Oxford. Indeed, looking back 450 years to the Protestant Reformation, both Oxford and the Nation should honour (among nearly three-hundred others in the reign of Bloody Mary) the heroic martyrdom of two bishops of the Reformed Church of England, Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley in 1555. William Shakespeare never bettered Latimer’s words spoken to Ridley shortly before they were both burned at the stake: “BE OF GOOD COMFORT, MASTER RIDLEY, AND PLAY THE MAN; WE SHALL THIS DAY LIGHT SUCH A CANDLE, BY GOD’S GRACE, IN ENGLAND, AS I TRUST SHALL NEVER BE PUT OUT.”

Central to the Continental Reformation struggle, the French tragedy of ‘10/17’ - representing an era of persecution lasting three centuries - had a definite British impact too. The Revocation of the Edict of Nantes by King Louis XIV in 1685 sent Huguenot refugees all over Europe and beyond. To the severe detriment of France, a loss she still suffers to this very day, the French Reformed Protestants not only reinforced the Protestant ethos of this country. Their economic, technological, cultural and military expertise made them welcome immigrants indeed. October ends with ‘10/31’, the anniversary of Martin Luther’s protest against Roman Catholic superstition, idolatry, corruption and tyranny in 1517, a German ‘explosion’ which brought light and eventual liberty to much of Europe including Great Britain. Surely, without Luther, Latimer and Ridley would never have lit the candle of pure Christian truth in England. Last, I cite an event with decidedly secular and sacred significance - the Gunpowder Plot. Indeed, the wonderful deliverance of ‘11/5’ should never ‘be forgot’, especially in this quatercentenary year. Luther’s liberating work of the previous century might have been undone in a flash on that awesome day in 1605 if the Vatican’s Jesuit-inspired terrorists had been successful. MORE (http://www.takeheed.net/CliffordConservativelecture.htm).

alghayb
4th September 2008, 06:56 AM
He also publishes Islamophobic Literature on Islam (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islamlit.html)

http://nrchurch.axspace.com/nrcheader%20copy.jpg

Claymore
4th September 2008, 03:07 PM
A question, should other religions be allowed to practice/preach/peacebly convert in Islamic countries?

Al-Hanbali
4th September 2008, 04:14 PM
No, but all religions have a right to be practiced in Secular countries.

Claymore
4th September 2008, 05:11 PM
Maybe we should change that then.
You decry a Christian for having reservations about Islam when you yourself say Islam needs the protection of the State to survive properly, a no competition clause.
Maybe states founded on Judeo/Christian principle should outlaw religions that outlaw other religion.
A religious 'fairness doctrine' based upon an intolerant form of worship, that approach would not be unfair and would fit within our constitution based upon intolerance.
Since SA bankrolls most of the new Mosques in this country you've given me an idea.

Abu Sabah
4th September 2008, 05:28 PM
The fact that Islam survives and even expands in countries like the USA or the UK is proof enough that Islam does not need protection from any state.

Islam has always allowed people with other religions to practice freely with the exception that they should not attempt to convert anyone. This is because we operate with the religious conviction that Islam is the truth, the path which leads to success. While other religions are false and lead their adherents to the fire and torment. As good people we cannot allow others to call towards destruction.

States that were founded on Christianity were among the most intolerant and brutal history has seen.

In the UK and USA there is a unique situation where the governments have abandoned any type of faith and promote a non-religious or atheistic public life and seek to marginalize religion to households. Yet, they do not prevent anyone from attempting to spread their beliefs no matter how ridiculous.

It is that reason you may find me on occasion in the city center calling people to monotheism and true belief. At the same time there are pagans who are calling to polytheism and disbelief a few meters down the street. Islam wins this battle, like it wins every debate and like it answers every criticism. Truth stands out clear from falsehood.

alghayb
4th September 2008, 06:42 PM
He believes his anti-Muslim rhetoric has a "high level of national and international support" and that consistent with his "love and concern for all humanity, I continue to oppose Islam. The only antidote to this evil religion and its barbaric ethos is the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ." Source (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/003066.php).

He also runs Charenton Reformed Publishing (http://www.christiancharenton.co.uk/) which publishes his anti-islamic book 'Christianity , Islam and British Politics' (http://www.christiancharenton.co.uk/?title=10).

He is a very dangerous man spewing his Islamophobic, hate fulled putrid vile, completely unabashed and unquestioned. He is a rabid Christian-Zionist Supremacist.Surely he should be subject to hate speech, stating that Islam is an "evil religion" with a "barbaric ethos", as well as the oteher links I show above. This little known yet hightly respected preacher is gaining ground in the UK and no-ne seems to be commenting on him or countering his sick views.

Claymore
4th September 2008, 06:52 PM
"Islam has always allowed people with other religions to practice freely with the exception that they should not attempt to convert anyone" That and a ton of other fine print that reduces everyone else to second class or no rights whatsoever...

So if Islam can stand alone why is it so protected to the sole exclusion of others.
One cannot take a Bible into SA so SA should not be allowed to finance any religious entity in the US.
SA supports the killing of those that leave Islam and take the Cross. Therefore this intolerant religion (Wahabbi) should not be placated by the very freedoms it denies.
This argument has not really been made in the West (US) but I believe it is a common sense approach to codefied intolerance.
This total lack of equality is against the freedoms we have codified.
IOW Islam is in a special religious class of zero tolerance for others as practiced by the main money men behind it's spread, that needs addressing in the public forum.

Abu Sabah
4th September 2008, 07:51 PM
Islam gives rights to everyone and everything including animals and plants. To suggest otherwise is either ignorance or dishonesty. The Jews have had a long and prosperous history living under the justice of Islam. When the Christians of Spain were trying to force convert Jews, they (the Jews) found sanctuary within the Islamic state.

So if Islam can stand alone why is it so protected to the sole exclusion of others.

I have already proven that Islam can and does stand alone and also the reason why we do not tolerate calling towards disbelief.

SA supports the killing of those that leave Islam and take the Cross.

Speaking as a former Christian there is nothing more vile than someone 'taking the cross' and there is no bigger criminal than the one who abandons Islam after knowing the truth.

This total lack of equality is against the freedoms we have codified.

Excuse me, but you can keep your freedumbs. I would gladly take the freedom of Islam and the worship of God over any falsehood that comes from the USA.

Umm Ahmed
4th September 2008, 07:54 PM
"Islam has always allowed people with other religions to practice freely with the exception that they should not attempt to convert anyone" That and a ton of other fine print that reduces everyone else to second class or no rights whatsoever...

So if Islam can stand alone why is it so protected to the sole exclusion of others.
One cannot take a Bible into SA so SA should not be allowed to finance any religious entity in the US.
SA supports the killing of those that leave Islam and take the Cross. Therefore this intolerant religion (Wahabbi) should not be placated by the very freedoms it denies.
This argument has not really been made in the West (US) but I believe it is a common sense approach to codefied intolerance.
This total lack of equality is against the freedoms we have codified.
IOW Islam is in a special religious class of zero tolerance for others as practiced by the main money men behind it's spread, that needs addressing in the public forum.

So by your standards , all the other muslim countries who have churches and synagogues mean nothing to you? why is the one place we wish to be kept free from other religions a problem ? You have alluded to this in other threads and this has been explained to you , and in fact its not all of saudi its only a small part thats for muslims only. If there was a problem practicing one's religion in Saudi then why are there so many non muslims living there ?
And who told you the name wahabbi means intolerant religion?

alghayb
5th September 2008, 06:30 AM
As well as links to his articles and letter above, as well as rabid quotes listed in this thread (not found on his site) he has done the below:

Christ or Muhammad? (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islamlit.html)
Qur'an Quotes (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islamlit.html)
Wesley On Islam (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islamlit.html)
Islam: Reformed Response (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islamlit.html)
Islam Impeached (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islamlit.html)
UK Conservatism Lecture (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islamlit.html)
ISLAM: The Current Threat to the British Isles (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islamlit.html)
Christianity, Islam and British Politics (http://www.takeheed.net/CliffordConservativelecture.htm) (book link (http://www.christiancharenton.co.uk/?title=10))
ENOUGH OF ISLAM : THE MUSLIM MENACE (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islam1.htm)
UK IN CRISIS: THE MUSLIM MENACE (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islam1.htm)
Various articles and stuff (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islam.html).
Various literatue by him (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islamlit.html)
Newspaper articles by him (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islam5.htm)
various letters and speeches (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islam2.htm)
Review of Gabriels book (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/reviewgabriel.htm).

Additional to posts 1, 2 and 7, he states

"As a Christian pastor, I pursue a mission which seeks the conversion of Muslims and non-Muslims alike." and "Whether people follow the dictates of a false religion like Islam or they prefer the decadent life-style of much modern British secularism, all need the life-transforming message of our Lord Jesus Christ."

He goes on to state that

"The relatively peaceable attitude of the Muslim majority is part of their strategy towards eventual fulfilment of the jihadic goal of global Islam. The 'militant-moderate' distinction is ultimately meaningless. While the Government bleats about 'integration', Muslims are only interested in 'domination'. Give them time and they will achieve it."

And starts threats:

"If UK Muslims will not exchange the essentially-backward and barbaric tenets of their fanatical faith for the wonderfully soul-saving and civilising faith of Jesus Christ, they must emigrate to countries that share their outlook. For their safety's sake, I urge them to follow this advice. They must cease abusing the hospitality of our tolerant culture and, where applicable, the generosity of our social benefits. They must take their money, their mores and their mosques elsewhere. Otherwise, the consequences of the growing crisis in the UK will prove too dire for words."

and...

"Next to an evangeIistic concern for all, I am primarily concerned for the peace and stability of UK society (see Jer. 29: 7), which is under threat from the presence of an alien religious and political ideology. Besides the constant threat of UK-based Islamic terrorism, two fundamentally opposed cultures cannot coexist in one state without creating intolerable friction. The evil intent of global Islamic jihadism with its determination to impose shari'ah law on subject nations, makes it impossible long term for us to 'lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence' (1 Tim. 2: 2). While Christians under the Roman Empire were urged to submit to the Government (see Rom. 13: 1-7), Islamists intend to overthrow our UK democracy. Since Islam is at war with the West, we dare not permit them to live in our midst any more than we would have tolerated the Nazi invaders." Source (http://www.livingchurch.org/news/news-updates/2007/11/29/episcopalians-other-christians-ask-muslims-for-forgiveness)

and...

"... a sense of relief and gratitude that I have had the courage to speak out against Islam. They thank me and promise to pray for me. Many encourage me never to back down. Even the non-Christians including Jewish people assure me of their support and appreciation. The Christians are thankful that I am not afraid to say what all cowardly Christian leaders should be saying but are not." Source (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/003087.php)

"consistent with my love and concern for all humanity, I continue to oppose Islam."Source (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/003087.php)

However unpalatable or non-pc the truth is to many people today, we need to know the facts about Islam.
While the racism of the BNP is abhorrent, Nick Griffin's recent Newsnight remarks regarding Islam are correct: "We have a monster in our midst." Source (http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islam5.htm)

http://nrchurch.axspace.com/islam56.jpg

soldier of islam
5th September 2008, 08:31 AM
I do not agree with the Norwich vicars views,
But i do agree, he has a lot of Bottle;;;

alghayb
7th September 2008, 08:40 PM
A Challenge to Alan C. Clifford...

to simply watch this speech by former Christian Minister Yusuf Estes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yusuf_Estes). I would like to know his response to them, Insha'Allah.

His Journey to Islam
<embed id="VideoPlayback" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-7657333391410735923&hl=en&fs=true" style="width:400px;height:326px" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"> </embed>

And this one:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/X8SGcCDY9RI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/X8SGcCDY9RI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I believe he was also involved in the BNPs infamous "The Truth About Islam (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=12808)" Leaflet and audio presentation "Islam - A Threat To Us All (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=109333&postcount=2)"

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/933/1320/1600/bnp-islam-poster1.gif (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=12808)

alghayb
12th September 2008, 08:24 AM
Clifford has a document called 'Qur'an Quotes'.

He states that:

Selected and introduced by Dr Alan C. Clifford, Pastor, Norwich Reformed Church (www.geocities.com/nrchurch)
Extracts are taken from The Koran, tr. N. J. Dawood ( Penguin Classics, 4th revised edition, 1974; reprinted 1986).
Of The Koran Interpreted (Oxford World Classics paperback, 1998), the English translator, A. J. Arberry states candidly: 'I have called my version an interpretation' (p. xii). However, in his introduction, Baghdad-born N. J. Dawood states that he was careful to avoid 'turning the text into an interpretation rather than a translation' (p. 11).

But of his selected quotes from the Qur'an he states that:

WARNING
The IPCI (https://www.islamicvision.co.uk) edition of the Quran (https://www.islamicvision.co.uk/description.php?scid=ipci20070914230139&itemcode=BK2060) (Islamic Vision, Birmingham, England, 1999) is not a reliable translation.
An Arabic specialist (whose name is withheld for security reasons) states that this translation is calculated to deceive. It presents a soft version of Islam for western readers.
There are numerous examples of defective translation. Also the extensive notes often contradict the Quranic text.

The version he is on about is the The Holy Qur'an: Text, Translation and Commentary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Qur%27an:_Text,_Translation_and_Commentar y) by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

Which, to my knowledge is a highly recommened one in the West, although it has been referred to as "a polemic against Jews" (http://www.meforum.org/article/717) See the thread discussion on the different Quran translations (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/tags.php?tag=hilali-khan).

Who is he to say that this version is "not a reliable translation". And what a lame excuse for his justification: "An Arabic specialist (whose name is withheld for security reasons) states that this translation is calculated to deceive. It presents a soft version of Islam for western readers."

If this Clifford for real? This, along with his obvious lack of understand of the selected verses he uses and is misguided interpretation of them, am I wrong to think that their is a chance he is trying to deliberately embarrass and discredit himself?

Well, we don't need to discredit him, he is doing just a fine and dandy job himself!

alghayb
29th October 2008, 05:36 PM
Well, MPACUK forum posters have a different view of him (http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=38582)...