INTERESTING ! On pronouncing qaf; Ibn Khuldun on Mudari Speech and Himyari Speech

[kamals]

INTERESTING link (to me anyway)

http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/Muqaddimah/Chapter6/Ch_6_46.htm

Ibn Khuldun is a mine of interesting information, in spite of his mistakes concerning the matter of the Mahdi.

This link brings a few questions to my mind, I was always told that the hard gutteral "g" pronounciation of qaf that the ancestors of Gulf bedouin use was improper and a modern linguistic deviation.

Here, unless I misunderstand him, Ibn Khuldun seems to argues that this may be the proper ancient way of pronouncing "q' for the fusha mudari speakers of the desert. Interesting, I think, that the Libyans also pronounce it "g" and they left Arabia centuries ago

He also argues that the coloqueal dialects of the time should be considered separate languages, apart from the Fusha, and that Himyari and Mudari are separate languages.

What do you guys think?

[hearandobey]

assalamu alaykum,

the late dr shawqi dhayf discusses the various dialects and schools of thoughts in arabic in his book al-madaris al-nahwiya (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=14180).

i also posted this (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=124871&postcount=12) about different qaba'il's dialects.

[WM]

"in spite of his mistakes concerning the matter of the Mahdi."

?

[StudentofIslam]

INTERESTING link (to me anyway)

http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/Muqaddimah/Chapter6/Ch_6_46.htm

Ibn Khuldun is a mine of interesting information, in spite of his mistakes concerning the matter of the Mahdi.

This link brings a few questions to my mind, I was always told that the hard gutteral "g" pronounciation of qaf that the ancestors of Gulf bedouin use was improper and a modern linguistic deviation.

Here, unless I misunderstand him, Ibn Khuldun seems to argues that this may be the proper ancient way of pronouncing "q' for the fusha mudari speakers of the desert. Interesting, I think, that the Libyans also pronounce it "g" and they left Arabia centuries ago

He also argues that the coloqueal dialects of the time should be considered separate languages, apart from the Fusha, and that Himyari and Mudari are separate languages.

What do you guys think?

He is right they should be considered different languages because different understands coming with all the different dialects in some aspects.

In Maurtanian they speak the dialect of Hassaniya and characteristic of dialect speakers who when questioned about their language they will tell you its very close to Arabic.

However Ive heard this exact peculiarity of the letter Qaf with my own ears from them and I must say that after being spoiled by the sound distinct sound of Qaf hearing Qa La /he said/ as - Gu La is rather annoying. But Im not a Arab and they are so, tough on me.
I will also mention that the desert arab of maurtanian pronounces the Fa as Va but that may be peculiar to their tongues and not have any root in Fusha. It shows even in some of the men from there who learn english.
Food is Vood etc....

[hearandobey]

regarding the issue of languages and dialects, i recommend this (http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&id=R2iYf0bvYGwC&dq=Variant+Readings+of+the+Qur%27an+By+Ahmad+%E2%8 0%98Ali+al+Imam&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=x1Cr0DebDg&sig=RkhWYygBg5EAYpmZkbE9JUC3MWc&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA59,M1) book, starting from page 58.