The Reason 9/11 was a Justified Attack

[SunnahGirl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Etfu0KcJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvlpY4MHdXg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG72dFiSatI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG72dFiSatI)(I know that Sheikh Omar Bakri has a lot of goofiness attached to him, but that doesn't change the facts he says)

[greenshirt]

sorry, i will go with the majority view that 9/11 is not justified.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

Who is the author of the article in the title post?

[SunnahGirl]

Who is the author of the article in the title post?

It was an author from Youtube although I forget his name. But I think the evidence given truly speaks for itself.

What's odd is that a lot of Muslims condemn 9/11 because it was an attack on "innocent" people, or they even condemn it for "suicide" bombing. Yet many of these same people go on to support groups like Hezbollah, Hamas, or even the Taliban, all of which have killed people who could be designated as innocent, and all of which have used martyrdom operations. Even more funny is that as much as they like to deny it, Al Qaeda is a huge ally of the Taliban.

So it's obvious that they aren't condeming 9/11 out of any kind of moral or religious conviction, they are condemning it because condemning it is a fad. They do it to make the Kuffar happy and so they'll be safe from any accusations which could land them behind bars. I've seen websites issue fatwas against 9/11, yet they go on in other fatwas to support martyrdom operations, including those which target Israeli civilians.

This is why I can't take anti-Al Qaeda Muslims seriously.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

But I think the evidence given truly speaks for itself.



The problem is that evidences like the ones given seem convincing and simple enough for a lot of young disaffected and angry Muslims, however once a person increases in knowledge, experience and maturity, he/she begins to understand things more deeply and sees that these kind of actions, as well as having serious breaches of the shari'ah, are also not beneficial in the long term.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

What's odd is that a lot of Muslims condemn 9/11 because it was an attack on "innocent" people, or they even condemn it for "suicide" bombing. Yet many of these same people go on to support groups like Hezbollah, Hamas, or even the Taliban, all of which have killed people who could be designated as innocent, and all of which have used martyrdom operations. Even more funny is that as much as they like to deny it, Al Qaeda is a huge ally of the Taliban.



The criticism is in regard to actions and policies. Even if some people have double standards regarding certain groups, that does not affect the validity or non-validity of the 9/11 operations or anything else.

[Claymore]

SunnahGirl,
So if we, the US/NATO coalition, apply the teachings of the Prophet against our enemies then we need not worry about killing women and children if the are 'apart of them' the enemy?

[SunnahGirl]

SunnahGirl,
So if we, the US/NATO coalition, apply the teachings of the Prophet against our enemies then we need not worry about killing women and children if the are 'apart of them' the enemy?



I don't understand the question.

If you are a member of the US army or NATO, you must be killed according to Islamic law.

To everyone else:

Why is it that no one can ever argue against articles such as these with Islamic proof? If it's so wrong, why can't you find an argument? The author has given verses after verse from Qur'an and Hadith and has simply applied the policies of the original Muslims to modern day circumstances.

Some may argue that because we don't know who the author was, the argument is invalid as he could be "anybody" and not neccessarly a Scholar. Well the fact is, the argument uses simple Islamic knowledge. And many Scholars in the Middle East believe what this writer is saying, in fact, it's obvious that the writer is simply expanding and explaining the policies of Al Qaeda.

I've seen all the arguments against 9/11. Most of them seem very convincing and well-written. But this doesn't make sense seeing as these arguments are supported by Scholars who have sold out Islam and try to say that Jihad doesn't even exist. Their arguments always ignore arguments such as the one in this article, in fact, it usually seems that they have not even heard the argument in favor of 9/11, or they are ignoring it! They use a few verses to say that Muslims "aren't" allowed to kill innocent people, yet they ignore all the verses which tell us to fight and kill the oppressors. These pro-Jihad verses do in fact, out number verses which tell us to be "peaceful".

Please also watch the videos I linked to.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

I've seen all the arguments against 9/11. Most of them seem very convincing and well-written. But this doesn't make sense seeing as these arguments are supported by Scholars who have sold out Islam and try to say that Jihad doesn't even exist.


That is a gross over-assumption.

[Claymore]

SG,
"If you are a member of the US army or NATO, you must be killed according to Islamic law"
And to think another Muslim just made me the offer of living under sharia in peace and harmony.

[SunnahGirl]

SG,
"If you are a member of the US army or NATO, you must be killed according to Islamic law"
And to think another Muslim just made me the offer of living under sharia in peace and harmony.


If you convert to Islam, your perversion of serving the US is automatically forgiven.

Conversion to Islam is the only way disbelievers can be forgiven for any of their sins. If a sane non-Muslim hears the message of Islam and rejects it, and remains non-Muslim at his or her death, none of their sins will be forgiven and their skin will be burnt off for eternity, Alhamdulliah.

But if you remain non-Muslim, and Imam Mehdi happens to come and begin his reign in your lifetime, you will not only receive punishment in the next life, you will be beheaded in this life. The Mehdi will likely come from Al Qaeda or the Taliban, and if you've seen how they behead people, it is not a nice way to die. (ie, you will be beheaded for your sin of serving the US in their scum army.)

[greenshirt]

claymore- let me just tell you that the majority of scholars have condemned the people behind 9/11. it was wrong because many innocent people were killed.

sunnahgirl is trying to justify it by posting this article, but i think it is an uneducated view. the vast majority of scholars have condemned the killing of innocents.

it is true that if US/NATO troops come to muslim lands, then we have a right to defend and bear arms against them according to many prominent scholars. but, going to america, and crashing planes into buildings killing 3,000 people, the vast majority whom were not government/military, etc, is just wrong. if it was justified, then why not just kill every non muslim?!!!!!!

i think sunnahgirl holds a very sick opinion when she tries to justify this. and, i am sure if she was in the USA and remembers 9/11 and the pain it caused to innocent people(including muslims) her opinion would be different.

and let's not be deceived.. many muslims died in 9/11 too. i believe the number was in the dozens which is a lot for the USA considering the muslim population is not big here.

sister um_abdullah has spoken about 9/11 and the islamic view many times. maybe she can come and elaborate because i am just saying what i have heard.

anyways, i just wanted to respond because i dont want you thinking that the majority of muslims justify the innocent people dying on 9/11. now islam has no room for compromising. but, islam has no room for falsehood either, and what sunnahsister is saying here, according to most, would be false.

[SunnahGirl]

claymore- let me just tell you that the majority of scholars have condemned the people behind 9/11. it was wrong because many innocent people were killed.

sunnahgirl is trying to justify it by posting this article, but i think it is an uneducated view. the vast majority of scholars have condemned the killing of innocents.

it is true that if US/NATO troops come to muslim lands, then we have a right to defend and bear arms against them according to many prominent scholars. but, going to america, and crashing planes into buildings killing 3,000 people, the vast majority whom were not government/military, etc, is just wrong. if it was justified, then why not just kill every non muslim?!!!!!!

i think sunnahgirl holds a very sick opinion when she tries to justify this. and, i am sure if she was in the USA and remembers 9/11 and the pain it caused to innocent people(including muslims) her opinion would be different.

and let's not be deceived.. many muslims died in 9/11 too. i believe the number was in the dozens which is a lot for the USA considering the muslim population is not big here.

sister um_abdullah has spoken about 9/11 and the islamic view many times. maybe she can come and elaborate because i am just saying what i have heard.

anyways, i just wanted to respond because i dont want you thinking that the majority of muslims justify the innocent people dying on 9/11. now islam has no room for compromising. but, islam has no room for falsehood either, and what sunnahsister is saying here, according to most, would be false.


THAT's your argument?

Just like the rest of Anti-9/11ers, you fail to provide any argument against what is being said. And you've insulted me, a fellow Muslim, by calling me sick and etc.

Your arguments have already been refuted by points made in the article. Didn't you bother to read it? Are you too ignorant to hear an opinion other than that of what you've already heard? Or is it just that you know you have know way to refute these arguments. LOLOLOLOLOL

1) Most American are NOT innocent people, and even if they were, we have the right to bomb them anyway because we are under the law of retaliation. They have bombed us, so we can bomb them. Please see the verses in the article for what the Qur'an says about retaliation.

2) The targets hit on 9/11 were absolutely combatant targets which fund aggression against Muslims.

3) Muslims living amongst the Kuffar should know the risks during a time of war, they had no business being inside of combatant targets in the first place, AND many Muslims living in the west are actually apostates (and you know what that means).


Western Islam is truly sick indeed. Heil Usama Bin Laden!!!

I mean, here you are defending this Claymore guy who happens to be FIGHTING the Muslims, and you are condemning me, a fellow Muslim.

You want you friends to be Kuffar over that of Muslims, and you fear the Kuffar more than you fear Allah! This is beyond obvious. I will make duooa for you In'Sha'Allah.

Truly backwards indeed....

[Umm Ahmed]

Sunnah Girl you need to have the primary source for the Article . please read the following thread on rules and regulations http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=1846

You have You tube links is it transcribed from the video ? If its not sourced it has to be removed.

We also have a massive thread on this topic http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=45&highlight=pictures

[SunnahGirl]

Usama Bin Laden conducts the BIGGEST ATTACK EVER on the soil of the most evil country to ever exist, and he does it in the name of Allah, and it's supposed to be condemned? Nice try, Shaytan.

Doesn't anybody realize how big of an impact 9/11 had on the world? It has even set off chain reactions which have begun to fulfill prophecies! It opened the eyes of so many people. Because of it alone, THOUSANDS of Americans converted to Islam because they bore witness to the miracle that Allah allowed people in a cave to attack their rich, destructive country!

Clearly somebody doesn't know how to interpret things...

[SunnahGirl]

BTW - I probably know 9/11 conspiracy theories better than the rest of you! I used to believe them myself!

Once again, here's that logic that if someone does not believe 9/11 was a conspiracy, they simply have not heard the idea that it was a conspiracy.

Yeah, been there, done that. Sorry, but I managed to get my head out of my (...) and I saw BOTH sides of the argument.

http://www.911myths.com/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTruthAbout911
http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

All that aside...

FACT: Sheikh Bin Laden has confessed to 9/11 on multiple occasions, in many videos.

FACT: Al Qaeda has confessed to and praised 9/11 in many videos.

Most of the "theories" have been blown wide, wide open. But I'm not here to argue about conspiracies. If you believe that 9/11 is a conspiracy, and that if it were real, it would still be condemnable, there's no point in even speaking to you.




Calling 9/11 a conspiracy is a ploy of Shaytan to lead us away from our Sheikh, Usama Bin Laden, and the glorious acts he commits. Imam Mehdi will be on his side.

Ehem... how else do you think Imam Mehdi is going to win the battle if it's not by committing acts like 9/11? It's obvious that he is going to invade the US an establish a bloody insurgency.

With all the corruption in the Ummah today, do you actually really believe that the majority of Muslims are going to support Mehdi and Jesus when they come? Noooo, the Muslims are going to attempt to betray them worse than the Jews betrayed Jesus. This is just simple fact when you look at the fables the Muslims are following today.

[Umm Ahmed]

Excuse me , but can you source the first article , within the next 5 mins , otherwise it will be deleted.

[Abu_Talha]

BTW - I probably know 9/11 conspiracy theories better than the rest of you! I used to believe them myself!

You may want to talk to Brother Mansoor Ali.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

Sunnah Girl:

What's with all of this certainty about the Mahdi? I mean why are you so sure that he will appear during our lifetimes? Maybe he will and maybe he won't.

And I think that your reference to Usamah ibn Ladin as if he is the "shaykh" of all the Muslims worldwide or something is a bit far-fetched.

And "establishing a bloody insurgency" inside the US is - sorry to say - a completely ridiculous idea that would not even work to begin with.

[Abu_Talha]

And "establishing a bloody insurgency" inside the US is - sorry to say - a completely ridiculous idea that would not even work to begin with.

I think what the sister means is that Imam Mahdi will 'establish a bloody insurgency' in the US.

Only Allah knows the ghayb.

[SunnahGirl]

LOL *I* wrote the article.

[seeker_of_knowledge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Etfu0KcJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvlpY4MHdXg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG72dFiSatI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG72dFiSatI)(I know that Sheikh Omar Bakri has a lot of goofiness attached to him, but that doesn't change the facts he says)

Jazakkallahu khairun sister for this wonderful thread. May Allaah(swt) increase you in emaan and protect you. May the wrath of Allaah(swt) be upon those who oppose the mujahideen and cry for the so called kafir "innocents". Ameeen.

[SunnahGirl]

Jazakkallahu khairun sister for this wonderful thread. May Allaah(swt) increase you in emaan and protect you. May the wrath of Allaah(swt) be upon those who oppose the mujahideen and cry for the so called kafir "innocents". Ameeen.


Thank you, brother... I knew there were people listening who believe in this!

I just wish more of them would reply...

[seeker_of_knowledge]

Sunnah Girl:

What's with all of this certainty about the Mahdi? I mean why are you so sure that he will appear during our lifetimes? Maybe he will and maybe he won't.

And I think that your reference to Usamah ibn Ladin as if he is the "shaykh" of all the Muslims worldwide or something is a bit far-fetched.

And "establishing a bloody insurgency" inside the US is - sorry to say - a completely ridiculous idea that would not even work to begin with.

Brother I have a question for you ? How many hours have you spend in the battle field ? How many of your loved and dear ones have been killed by kafirs ? If the answer is no one how can you judge the act of the mujahideen ? Insaallaah once you spend time in Al-Jihad you will realise the importance of such operations for the mujahideen.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

I think what the sister means is that Imam Mahdi will 'establish a bloody insurgency' in the US.



And in what hadith did she read that?

The only information that we have in the authentic ahadith that are clearly and unequivocally referring to the Mahdi is the following:

- He will be from Ahl al-Bayt.
- His name is Muhammad and his father's name is 'Abdullah.
- He will rule for 7, 8 or 9 years.
- He will establish justice after a period of injustice.
- Wealth will be plentiful during his time and he will have it distributed freely.
- He will appear in Makkah after fleeing there from al-Madinah, and be given the bay'ah in al-Masjid al-Haram between the rukn and the maqam, and that a man from Quraysh will send an army against him which will be sunk into the earth between Makkah and al-Madinah.

Everything else that people often claim about the Mahdi is based on ahadith that are either inauthentic or unclear.

It is not even clearly and authentically established that the Mahdi will be the one whom 'Isa will pray behind. All that the authentic ahadith say is that he will pray behind the imam of the Muslims of that time.

[seeker_of_knowledge]

Thank you, brother... I knew there were people listening who believe in this!

I just wish more of them would reply...

Speak the haq even if you were alone sister. Men today are coward to even mention Jihad they have become impotent whereas Alhumdulillah woman like you can speak the haq not being afraid of the consequences. May the eyes of the cowards never rest in peace.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

Brother I have a question for you ? How many hours have you spend in the battle field ? How many of your loved and dear ones have been killed by kafirs ? If the answer is no one how can you judge the act of the mujahideen ? Insaallaah once you spend time in Al-Jihad you will realise the importance of such operations for the mujahideen.


Because none of that is a shar'i barrier that prevents a person objecting to certain acts that are against the shari'ah.

[seeker_of_knowledge]

You mean to say you sitting at home are in a better position to judge them who are fighting the kufar in the battlefield ?

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

You mean to say you sitting at home are in a better position to judge them who are fighting the kufar in the battlefield ?


I'm not talking about judging their intentions, I'm talking about the act itself. If it is haram, then it is haram, no matter who does it.

[seeker_of_knowledge]

I'm not talking about judging their intentions, I'm talking about the act itself. If it is haram, then it is haram, no matter who does it.

How can you judge an action without judging the intention when Rasul(saw) said "Innamal amalu bin niyat" Sahih Bukhari.

[SunnahGirl]

ohhhh so Mehdi is not going to establish an insurgency in the US? Honestly, do you think he's going to win the war by snapping his fingers?

FYI, most Hadith about the Mehdi are not necessarly from trusted sources, in fact, very few of them are. IIRC, Sahih Bukhari only mentions Mehdi twice, and very vaguely at that.

So who is the Mehdi and when he comes will likely be a huge surprise for us. And it is for this reason (we know so little) that I think Sheikh Bin Laden may even be the Mehdi! Other Hadith seem to hint that he'll be from the Taliban, but then again, Al Qaeda was created from within the Taliban, more or less.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

How can you judge an action without judging the intention when Rasul(saw) said "Innamal amalu bin niyat" Sahih Bukhari.


Either you seem not to understand the meaning of the hadith, or you misunderstood my statement.

A certain intention might be good and praiseworthy, however if it is carried out in an incorrect manner, then the action is wrong regardless of what the intention was. Therefore, the intention is good, but the action itself is wrong. Actions and intentions are not the same thing. Both must be in accordance with the shari'ah to be accepted. That is what is meant when it says "innamal-a'malu bin-niyyat". It means that both the intention and the action must be correct.

Take note here that your excuse regarding intentions is exactly the same excuse used by the people of bid'ah to justify their bid'ahs.

[seeker_of_knowledge]

ohhhh so Mehdi is not going to establish an insurgency in the US? Honestly, do you think he's going to win the war by snapping his fingers?

FYI, most Hadith about the Mehdi are not necessarly from trusted sources, in fact, very few of them are. IIRC, Sahih Bukhari only mentions Mehdi twice, and very vaguely at that.

So who is the Mehdi and when he comes will likely be a huge surprise for us. And it is for this reason (we know so little) that I think Sheikh Bin Laden may even be the Mehdi! Other Hadith seem to hint that he'll be from the Taliban, but then again, Al Qaeda was created from within the Taliban, more or less.

I am sorry sister inspite of having great love towards Sheikh UBL(Ha), I do not believe in blindly following him and there is no way he can be the blessed Imam Mahdi(as). There are lot of conditions that needs to be fulfilled to be the Mahdi, one of them being he needs to be from the Quraysh which he is not. Do love the mujahideen but do not blindly follow them. Its only the Quran and Sunnah of the Rasul(saw) that can be blindly followed.
May Allaah(swt) keep us steadfast on the deen. Ameen.

[seeker_of_knowledge]

Either you seem not to understand the meaning of the hadith, or you misunderstood my statement.

A certain intention might be good and praiseworthy, however if it is carried out in an incorrect manner, then the action is wrong regardless of what the intention was. Therefore, the intention is good, but the action itself is wrong. Actions and intentions are not the same thing. Both must be in accordance with the shari'ah to be accepted. That is what is meant when it says "innamal-a'malu bin-niyyat". It means that both the intention and the action must be correct.

Take note here that your excuse regarding intentions is exactly the same excuse used by the people of bid'ah to justify their bid'ahs.

Ok lets say I agree with you, what do you think should be the right Islamic way of fighting the infidels ? I am personally against martyrdoom operations but can we be kind enough to suggest alternatives ? They may be wrong but when we don't have a solution for them why are we, sitting at home trying to condemn them and turning people away from the least they are trying to do for Islam ?

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

ohhhh so Mehdi is not going to establish an insurgency in the US? Honestly, do you think he's going to win the war by snapping his fingers?


How do you know? The Russians or Chinese might have nuked America to dust by the time the Mahdi appears. Don't state things so definitively about the future when these things have not been mentioned in the ahadith.

FYI, most Hadith about the Mehdi are not necessarly from trusted sources, in fact, very few of them are. IIRC, Sahih Bukhari only mentions Mehdi twice, and very vaguely at that.


Yes, but there are other collections of ahadith which do contain clear mention of the Mahdi. However, we should only affirm those that are generally agreed by the scholars to be authentic, and we should not assume things that are not clearly mentioned in the ahadith themselves.

So who is the Mehdi and when he comes will likely be a huge surprise for us. And it is for this reason (we know so little) that I think Sheikh Bin Laden may even be the Mehdi! Other Hadith seem to hint that he'll be from the Taliban, but then again, Al Qaeda was created from within the Taliban, more or less.


Firstly, Usamah ibn Ladin is surely not the Mahdi, for a number of reasons; the primary one being the very fact that his name is "Usamah ibn Ladin", and not "Muhammad ibn 'Abdillah". Secondly, he is from a Yemeni Qahtani tribe, not Banu Hashim.

What other ahadith are you talking about that indicate he will be from the Taliban? If you mean the ahadith of the black banners from Khurasan, then firstly, their authenticity is at best debatable; secondly, the best of the narrations of the hadith of the banners does not clearly - if you read it closely - say that the Mahdi will come from there, all it mentions is that the black banners will come some time before him.

Also, those ahadith that claim that the Mahdi will come from the east with the black banners are contradicted by other ahadith that indicate he will appear in the Hijaz and recieve the bay'ah there.

And your point about al-Qaeda being created from within the Taliban is inaccurate; the al-Qaeda group came into existence several years before the appearance of the Taliban. Yes, they may have later evolved or developed under the protection of the Taliban, but that's not the same as what you claimed.
<!-- / message -->

[SunnahGirl]

I am sorry sister inspite of having great love towards Sheikh UBL(Ha), I do not believe in blindly following him and there is no way he can be the blessed Imam Mahdi(as). There are lot of conditions that needs to be fulfilled to be the Mahdi, one of them being he needs to be from the Quraysh which he is not. Do love the mujahideen but do not blindly follow them. Its only the Quran and Sunnah of the Rasul(saw) that can be blindly followed.
May Allaah(swt) keep us steadfast on the deen. Ameen.


I know what you mean, and I don't follow blindly.

But as I said, many Hadith on the Mehdi are not from trusted sources, so we don't really know. I think it's his actions that will decide whether or not he is the Mehdi. So far, he is THE Mujahid of the century, or even the last few centuries. And if he does something like conquer Jerusalem (which the Mehdi WILL do), then we'll know he is him.

And Bin Laden is Arab.... I'm aware his family is of Yemen descent, but I don't see how that rules out him being from Quraysh. I mean, he could even be from Quraysh and not even know it! Just because his family is from Yemen descent doesn't mean that they might not have been Quraysh and migrated to Yemen hundreds of years ago!

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

Ok lets say I agree with you, what do you think should be the right Islamic way of fighting the infidels ? I am personally against martyrdoom operations but can we be kind enough to suggest alternatives ? They may be wrong but when we don't have a solution for them why are we, sitting at home trying to condemn them and turning people away from the least they are trying to do for Islam ?


Simply stating that I believe a certain operation was wrong, or that a certain group's tactics and agenda are not beneficial, is not the same thing as "condemning" every single Muslim who fights in defence of the religion and the Muslim lands. I hope you realise that.

[Abu_Talha]

I think Sheikh Bin Laden may even be the Mehdi!

Let's not go there ukhti.

Remember Juhayman? May Allah forgive him.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

And Bin Laden is Arab.... I'm aware his family is of Yemen descent, but I don't see how that rules out him being from Quraysh. I mean, he could even be from Quraysh and not even know it! Just because his family is from Yemen descent doesn't mean that they might not have been Quraysh and migrated to Yemen hundreds of years ago!

The Arabs generally known their own tribal genealogies. Especially those descended from the Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam, they have family trees going back 1400 years or more.<!-- / message -->

[Abu_Talha]

What Imam Mahdi will do or not do, we will leave up to Allah.

Let's talk current times and on solid evidences and facts. The ghayb and all its fascinating implications are known only to Allah.

The Mujahideen are doing us a great service, but that doesn't mean we praise them unconditionally or criticize them unrestrictedly. Some of the acts attributed to them are complete lies, and they themselves have rejected some accusations many times. Some operations may be justified from their situation on the field but quite clearly in error to us who are sitting behind and observing. Make Du'a to Allah that he forgives their sins and guides their missiles to the right targets.

[seeker_of_knowledge]

Simply stating that I believe a certain operation was wrong, or that a certain group's tactics and agenda are not beneficial, is not the same thing as "condemning" every single Muslim who fights in defence of the religion and the Muslim lands. I hope you realise that.

I am sorry brother I have no right to judge your intention, May Allaah(swt) forgive me if I did.. The reason I refrain from judging their actions is because I see it creates hatred towards them in the heart of Muslims and that turns them away from Al- Jihad. If anything we need today is Al- Jihad and the place, the Dar- ul- Harb I am from its an ultimate necessity to survive as Muslims.

[seeker_of_knowledge]

What Imam Mahdi will do or not do, we will leave up to Allah.

Let's talk current times and on solid evidences and facts. The ghayb and all its fascinating implications are known only to Allah.

The Mujahideen are doing us a great service, but that doesn't mean we praise them unconditionally or criticize them unrestrictedly. Some of the acts attributed to them are complete lies, and they themselves have rejected some accusations many times. Some operations may be justified from their situation on the field but quite clearly in error to us who are sitting behind and observing. Make Du'a to Allah that he forgives their sins and guides their missiles to the right targets.

Ameen.

Subhanallah the best reply in this thread so far.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

What Imam Mahdi will do or not do, we will leave up to Allah.

Let's talk current times and on solid evidences and facts. The ghayb and all its fascinating implications are known only to Allah.

The Mujahideen are doing us a great service, but that doesn't mean we praise them unconditionally or criticize them unrestrictedly. Some of the acts attributed to them are complete lies, and they themselves have rejected some accusations many times. Some operations may be justified from their situation on the field but quite clearly in error to us who are sitting behind and observing. Make Du'a to Allah that he forgives their sins and guides their missiles to the right targets.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->Jazakallahu khayran, brother Abu Talha. What you have said sums up the true balanced attitude that a Muslim should have re. these issues.

[SunnahGirl]

How do you know? The Russians or Chinese might have nuked America to dust by the time the Mahdi appears. Don't state things so definitively about the future when these things have not been mentioned in the ahadith.



Yes, but there are other collections of ahadith which do contain clear mention of the Mahdi. However, we should only affirm those that are generally agreed by the scholars to be authentic, and we should not assume things that are not clearly mentioned in the ahadith themselves.



Firstly, Usamah ibn Ladin is surely not the Mahdi, for a number of reasons; the primary one being the very fact that his name is "Usamah ibn Ladin", and not "Muhammad ibn 'Abdillah". Secondly, he is from a Yemeni Qahtani tribe, not Banu Hashim.

What other ahadith are you talking about that indicate he will be from the Taliban? If you mean the ahadith of the black banners from Khurasan, then firstly, their authenticity is at best debatable; secondly, the best of the narrations of the hadith of the banners does not clearly - if you read it closely - say that the Mahdi will come from there, all it mentions is that the black banners will come some time before him.

Also, those ahadith that claim that the Mahdi will come from the east with the black banners are contradicted by other ahadith that indicate he will appear in the Hijaz and recieve the bay'ah there.

And your point about al-Qaeda being created from within the Taliban is inaccurate; the al-Qaeda group came into existence several years before the appearance of the Taliban. Yes, they may have later evolved or developed under the protection of the Taliban, but that's not the same as what you claimed.
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Firstly, most prophecies regarding events that need to be fulfilled before the appearance of the Mehdi have in actuality, been fulfilled. Look on Harun Yahya's site, for example. Thus we can conclude that the Mehdi will come VERY soon, and is probably alive and doing Jihad as we speak. Maybe the Taliban or the group he's working for are keeping him secret for now?

Do you realize that today Muslims are being oppressed much more than they ever have been? And the prophecies state that the Mehdi will come at a time when Muslims are severely oppressed. If things need to still transpire over hundreds or thousands of years in order for him to come, you do realize that it will basically and pretty much LITERALLY be Gehennah on Earth for Muslims? How much more do we need to be oppressed? I don't believe that Allah would allow it to get THAT bad.

Or maybe you're just scared about the Mehdi coming in your life time, because you don't want to see him confront the Muslims about the perversions they've committed?

Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. But saying that it "probably won't happen within our lifetimes" is a big stretch and is more unlikely than it is likely.

Secondly, I am not CLAIMING Bin Laden to be the Mehdi, I am specifying it as a possibility!

Why do you have this attitude towards me just because we have different beliefs? :confused:

Read here for more Hadith about Mehdi being from the Taliban:

http://www.geocities.com/muslimapocalyptic/WebProphecies.htm

Next, Bin Laden's full name is actually Usāmah bin Muḥammad bin `Awaḍ bin Lādin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family) (wikipedia). So he he DOES have the name "Muhammad" in his name. Also, I have seen videos where Al Qaeda refers to him as "Sheikh Ibn Abdullah".

Not all prophecies are as direct, literal, and cut and dry as you make them out to be.... history shows that many, if not most prophecies were fulfilled in unexpected today. In modern times, an example is a Hadith which says that before Mehdi comes, the Arabian deserts will turn green. Well, this has happened, as technology has allowed for producing vegetation in the deserts.

Lastly, NOTICE how I said "more or less" when referring to the creation of Al Qaeda from within the Taliban. The way you elaborated on it was basically what I meant.

[Abu Sabah]

May the eyes of the cowards never rest in peace.

Indeed.

[Abu_Talha]

Or maybe you're just scared about the Mehdi coming in your life time, because you don't want to see him confront the Muslims about the perversions they've committed?

Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. But saying that it "probably won't happen within our lifetimes" is a big stretch and is more unlikely than it is likely.

Secondly, I am not CLAIMING Bin Laden to be the Mehdi, I am specifying it as a possibility!

Why do you have this attitude towards me just because we have different beliefs? :confused:

Read here for more Hadith about Mehdi being from the Taliban:

http://www.geocities.com/muslimapocalyptic/WebProphecies.htm

Next, Bin Laden's full name is actually Usāmah bin Muḥammad bin `Awaḍ bin Lādin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family) (wikipedia). So he he DOES have the name "Muhammad" in his name. Also, I have seen videos where Al Qaeda refers to him as "Sheikh Ibn Abdullah".

Not all prophecies are as direct, literal, and cut and dry as you make them out to be.... history shows that many, if not most prophecies were fulfilled in unexpected today. In modern times, an example is a Hadith which says that before Mehdi comes, the Arabian deserts will turn green. Well, this has happened, as technology has allowed for producing vegetation in the deserts.

Lastly, NOTICE how I said "more or less" when referring to the creation of Al Qaeda from within the Taliban. The way you elaborated on it was basically what I meant.

Sister, there is absolutely NO benefit in trying to interpret those ahadeeth the way you want them to turn out. Ok Usama bin Laden has Mohammad in his name, but is that his name or his father's? It doesn't matter if the Mahdi has already been born or is currently fighting with the Taleban or any other scenarios. When a man flees from Medina due to the fitnah of killing, and a few hundred people swear at his hands and an army is sunk into the Earth, we will hear of it. And by Allah, we will go to him even if we have to crawl over ice.

But Usama bin Laden is not in Medina. No Baya has been taken. No army has been sunk. No Imam has yet come. So no point in jumping the gun.

Remember Juhayman? May Allah forgive his mistakes.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

Firstly, most prophecies regarding events that need to be fulfilled before the appearance of the Mehdi have in actuality, been fulfilled. Look on Harun Yahya's site, for example. Thus we can conclude that the Mehdi will come VERY soon, and is probably alive and doing Jihad as we speak. Maybe the Taliban or the group he's working for are keeping him secret for now?



The section on the signs of the Last Day on Harun Yahya's website is full of mistakes, inaccuracies, and selective quoting of parts of ahadith and neglecting other parts. For example, regarding the army that will be sunk into the earth at the appearance of the Mahdi, it is claimed in his site that this was fulfilled during Gulf War 1 when the allied forces are said to have buried alive groups of the Iraqi army in ditches. Obviously, whoever made that interpretation took the hadith way out of context.

Note that as far back as the time of the crusades and the mongol invasions, i.e. around 800 years ago, many people - even some scholars - believed that all of the signs leading up to the Mahdi had occurred and that his arrival was imminent. This is clear if you read some of the books about the subject of the Mahdi written during that time, e.g. "'Aqd ad-Durar fi Akhbar al-Muntadhar" and others. However, they were obviously mistaken.

As for "keeping him secret" the ahadith are pretty clear that the Mahdi himself will not even know that he is the Mahdi, even when the people force him to accept their bay'ah in the Haram. The idea that some people somewhere are "keeping him secret" is generally a common belief of the rafidhi shi'ah and also some extremist sufis... so best to beware of ideas like that in sha' Allah...

[Umm Ahmed]

Please watch what your saying in this thread please , this is an open forum.

[justabro]

The section on the signs of the Last Day on Harun Yahya's website is full of mistakes, inaccuracies, and selective quoting of parts of ahadith and neglecting other parts. For example, regarding the army that will be sunk into the earth at the appearance of the Mahdi, it is claimed in his site that this was fulfilled during Gulf War 1 when the allied forces are said to have buried alive groups of the Iraqi army in ditches. Obviously, whoever made that interpretation took the hadith way out of context.

Note that as far back as the time of the crusades and the mongol invasions, i.e. around 800 years ago, many people - even some scholars - believed that all of the signs leading up to the Mahdi had occurred and that his arrival was imminent. This is clear if you read some of the books about the subject of the Mahdi written during that time, e.g. "'Aqd ad-Durar fi Akhbar al-Muntadhar" and others. However, they were obviously mistaken.

As for "keeping him secret" the ahadith are pretty clear that the Mahdi himself will not even know that he is the Mahdi, even when the people force him to accept their bay'ah in the Haram. The idea that some people somewhere are "keeping him secret" is generally a common belief of the rafidhi shi'ah and also some extremist sufis... so best to beware of ideas like that in sha' Allah...

Actually, Harun Yahya apparently promotes himself to his followers as being the Mahdi.

[justabro]

Read here for more Hadith about Mehdi being from the Taliban:

http://www.geocities.com/muslimapocalyptic/WebProphecies.htm



This is not to do with the weak black flags hadith is it? It was most likely a fabrication in favor of the Abbasids. One of the first Abbasid Khalifahs even gave himself the title al-Mahdi (it was the custom of the Abbasid Khalifahs to take titles, al-Mahdi, al-Mutawakkil, al-Mu'tasim Billah, al-Muntasir Billah, al-Mustansir etc.)

[Salahadeen]

Actually, Harun Yahya apparently promotes himself to his followers as being the Mahdi.

I don't think so bro. It was just a rumor against him, and I don't think it would be just to spread it without confirmation. I think I even read a rebuttal by Haroon Yahya.

[SunnahGirl]

Sister, there is absolutely NO benefit in trying to interpret those ahadeeth the way you want them to turn out. Ok Usama bin Laden has Mohammad in his name, but is that his name or his father's? It doesn't matter if the Mahdi has already been born or is currently fighting with the Taleban or any other scenarios. When a man flees from Medina due to the fitnah of killing, and a few hundred people swear at his hands and an army is sunk into the Earth, we will hear of it. And by Allah, we will go to him even if we have to crawl over ice.

But Usama bin Laden is not in Medina. No Baya has been taken. No army has been sunk. No Imam has yet come. So no point in jumping the gun.

Remember Juhayman? May Allah forgive his mistakes.


Ahem. What have I been saying?

MOST HADITH ABOUT THE MEHDI ARE NOT FROM TRUSTED SOURCES.

MOST HADITH ABOUT THE MEHDI ARE NOT 100% CONFIRMED SAHIH.

Is it really so hard to comprehend that, therefore, we can't be sure if this "fleeing from Medina" stuff and etc is even true?

As I JUST SAID - we have to accept the possibility that it will happen in a totally unexpected way!

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

But what brother Abu Talha mentioned about the Mahdi is in fact from the authentic ahadith. The non-authentic ones about the Mahdi say other things, but we avoid using those ahadith; we are only talking about the ones that are authentic.

Yes, there are unexpected things that will happen, however, certain things will be exactly as they have been described in the authentic hadith. Otherwise, there would be no point in the Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam, clearly describing for us the events of the future.

[Abu_Talha]

"People will begin to differ after the death of a Khaleefah. A man from the people of Madinah will flee to Makkah. Some of the people of Makkah will come to him and drag him out against his will; they will swear allegiance to him between al-Rukn and al-Maqam. An army will be sent against him from Syria; it will be swallowed up in the desert between Makkah and Madinah. When the people see this, groups of people from Syria and Iraq will come and swear allegiance to him. Then a man from Quraysh whose mother is from Kalb will appear and send an army against them, and will defeat them; this will be known as the Battle of Kalb. Whoever does not witness the spoils of this battle will miss much! The Mahdee will distribute the wealth, and will rule the people according to the Sunnah of the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam). Then he will die, and the Muslims will pray for him." [Abu Daawood]

Taken from Ibn Kathir's book on the Signs of the Last Day. I also encourage you to read that book as it will remove a lot of your misconceptions. And like I've said a few times now, this topic is useless to discuss since the ghayb can never be known to us.

[SunnahGirl]

It's funny that so many religious people who fear the day of prophetic events being fulfilled, as well as so many non-religious people like to say about prophetic events:

"yeah, but people have been saying those events were being fulfilled for hundreds of years, and nothing has ever happened."

Somebody needs to get their head out of the gutter and wake up and smell the coffee.

The 20th Century was an ABSOLUTE breaking point in history. Do you understand how many horrid events were committed in that hundred years, and now well into the 21st century? Prophetic things did truly happen, more than ever, ever, ever before (since the time of the Prophet saw).

Alright. This doesn't necessarly mean that we are close to the Day of Judgment, but comparing modern events and interpretations to past interpretations is a big, big lie and a step-down.

The 20th century was a huge leap in EVERYTHING... a bigger leap than has ever been taken before.

[Abu_Talha]

Sister I don't quite get what you're trying to tell us. I'm not denying anything nor am I comparing modern events and interpretations to past interpretation. I have given you the hadeeth which tells us exactly what's going to happen.

Please answer this question. Do you know Juhayman al-'Utaybi?

[SunnahGirl]

Sister I don't quite get what you're trying to tell us. I'm not denying anything nor am I comparing modern events and interpretations to past interpretation. I have given you the hadeeth which tells us exactly what's going to happen.

Please answer this question. Do you know Juhayman al-'Utaybi?


I don't know who that is, no.

And I still don't see how that Hadith is definitely 100% sound.

[Saifur Rahman Al Afghani]

What is going on here? Fiuhhh! What a Girl!

[Abu_Talha]

I don't know who that is, no.

And I still don't see how that Hadith is definitely 100% sound.

Sister rather than trying to change the hadeeth to adapt to what you want it to say or imply, you should change your view according to the authentic evidences. If the Prophet (salalahu 'alyhi wasalam) said that al-Mahdi would proclaim himself in Makkah and that he will flee from the fitan in Medina, then this will happen exactly the way we have been told.

I suggest you read up on Juhayman al-'Utaybi (wikipedia is a good start I suppose). May Allah forgive his mistakes. Especially his most infamous one.

[SunnahGirl]

Sister rather than trying to change the hadeeth to adapt to what you want it to say or imply, you should change your view according to the authentic evidences. If the Prophet (salalahu 'alyhi wasalam) said that al-Mahdi would proclaim himself in Makkah and that he will flee from the fitan in Medina, then this will happen exactly the way we have been told.

I suggest you read up on Juhayman al-'Utaybi (wikipedia is a good start I suppose). May Allah forgive his mistakes. Especially his most infamous one.



Ummm... you do realize that words can be attributed to the Prophet (SAW) when they are actually made up by someone else?

I still see no proof that the Hadith is authentic.

[Abu_Talha]

Actually I just checked again, and that hadeeth narrated by Abu Dawood is da'eef. My bad. But like I said earlier, what are you trying to tell us?

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

Actually I just checked again, and that hadeeth narrated by Abu Dawood is da'eef. My bad. But like I said earlier, what are you trying to tell us?


True, some scholars have declared it dha'if, but others accepted it. Even if it is dha'if, parts of it have shawahid from authentic ahadith in the sahihayn.

[Umm Ahmed]

If your going to go around forums speaking about the mahdi ect , it would help you if you knew who Juhayman al utabi is

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=10901&highlight=juhayman

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=10960&highlight=juhayman
Apart from Yasir Qadi's lecture on the mahdi , are there any other audios or articles on this topic?

[Mansoor Ali]

I probably know 9/11 conspiracy theories better than the rest of you

http://www.vt911.org/Jet%20fuel%20that's%20a%20good%20one.JPG

[Abu_Talha]

Here comes the BOOM! Br. Mansoor Ali, can you please keep the exchanges on your personally owned famous 9/11 page. I am providing commentary there. Have you read?