'udhr bil jahl

[Tuwaylib]

assalamu alaikum,

would anyone have info on books or tapes which cover teh topic of al 'udhr bil jahal. Both sides of the argument would be beneficial.

jazakAllahu khair

[Abuz Zubair]

I don't know of anything in English... but in Arabic there are many books written by both sides.

[Abuz Zubair]

Sorry, I think there was a book on the topic that partly dealt with the issue, published by JIMAS. And this book was of course pro-'udhr bil-jahl in the foundations of iman.

[Tuwaylib]

arabic is fine... although i'd like to read something is fairly concise rather than an encyclopedia or listen to tapes on the net.

jazakAllahu khair

[ibn Kamal]

wa 3alaykum as salaam

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=10065&ln=ara&txt=%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B0%D8%B1%20%D8%A8%D8%A7% D9%84%D8%AC%D9%87%D9%84
This is from al-3alama bin baaz ra7imahuallah

I also read from Shaykh 3ali al-Khudayr fukkaallahu asrahu really good texts concerning this topic, where he lists the opinions of the salaf and aimma of the d3awa of najd.
I can upload them, but they are quite long.

Can anyone post texts pro-al 3uthr bi aljahl?

[Tuwaylib]

assalamu alaikum,

these are some i got a hold of from some brothers:

a fatwa by sh. Muhammad ad-dudu, collection of sayings of sh. muhammad ibn abdul wahhab, and a fatwa by al-Lajnah

does anyone have anything that supports the notion that there is NO udhr bil jahl in issues of tawheed and imaan.?? specifically i have heard that there are narrations of sh. muhammad ibn abdul wahhab supporting that there is no udhr...

i heard a lecture by sh. saalih aal ash-shaykh and it seemed to me that you would treat one who calls himself a muslim but commits major shirk as a mushrik kaafir even if knowledge of truth of Islam didn't come to him (like in a village in india or bangladesh where the people may be worshipping graves because that is what they were taught by the 'imams' etc)... and i am assuming this view stemmed from ash-shaykh...but wAllahu alim.

any help would be appreciated..
jazakumAllahu khair

[al-utaybi]

aswrb,

i have seen evidence also to say there is no excuse of ignorance when it comes to tawheed or the things which are clear and knwn by necessity.
but i knw of some scholars who say there may be excuse of ignorance and tawil in the things knwn by necessity.

is this issue a matter of ijtihad?

[Abu Hafsa]

العذر بالجهل وقيام الحجة (http://www.abubaseer.bizland.com/books/read/b11.doc)

[al-utaybi]

aasalamu alaykum,

sorry brother abu hafsa but if that is for me i do not understand arabic

[al-utaybi]

i went into it and understand it to be by sheikh abu baseer may Allah ahev mercy upon him, but im not arabic.

i have read from his articles though that there is excuse of ignorance for those who live in remote place, or new muslim etc... when it comes to the foundations. i also read from him that there is excuse of jahl and tawil even to the things knwn by necessity, ie he uses hatib bin abi baltah and the muwallat issue to say there could be excuse, but from what i knw wasnt it ijma of sahabahs that that was kufr, i knw he was excused by revelation (may allah be pleased with him) but frm what i understand the sheikh says that wasnt the only excuse.

so this is where im confussed, becasue a brother gave me an article saying that ibn taymiyyah and imaam shafi said there is no excuse of ignorance when it comes to muwallat.?