Allah sits

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

istiwaa

Does this mean that when one says Allah is above the heavens that he is literally SEATED on the throne touching it?

Imam abu hanifa said Allah istiwa the throne without need of it and without touching it.

Is this the same aqidah as ibn uthaymeen

[Abuz Zubair]

I did comment on this elsewhere on this forum... does anyone remember the link?

[Umm Ahmed]

This thread touches on the topic of Istiwaa.

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=416&highlight=istiwaa

[Intoodeep]

its easy - Allah is above the throne like he is above his creation.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

Na'am however i read that ibn uthaymeen asserts that Allaah sits on the throne with His Feet on the Kursi and this is Tashbih that we MUST negate and this explains the KAYFIYYAH unless an ignorant one wants to say that Allaah sits without HOW.

[WM]

Brother, I think it was ibn 'Abbas who said Allah's feet are on the kursi...

[qadri]

istiwaa

Does this mean that when one says Allah is above the heavens that he is literally SEATED on the throne touching it?

Imam abu hanifa said Allah istiwa the throne without need of it and without touching it.

Is this the same aqidah as ibn uthaymeen

Na'am however i read that ibn uthaymeen asserts that Allaah sits on the throne with His Feet on the Kursi and this is Tashbih that we MUST negate and this explains the KAYFIYYAH unless an ignorant one wants to say that Allaah sits without HOW.

aMuslim4Life or whatever, how about applying the Kullabi Asharite principle of Tafwid al-Mana. 'We don't know the meaning istawa' and add to that it is from Mutashabihaat.

[qadri]

[b] and add to that also what Imam Malik said about Istawa is doubtful or fabricated as Kullabi Asharite defender GF Haddad tried to cast aspersion on it.

Hold on a minute, does mr. Asharite gf haddad / hasan ali saqqaf / Keller / ghumari / kawthari / abul hasan or others of the same kind think that they are more knowledgeable in the science of aqida and hadith then Hafidh Bayhaqi, Hafidh Ajurri, Hafidh Lalikaee, Hafidh Sabuni ?

how come these fitnah mongers are coming up with new doctrines. and after 1400 they are discovering more new things ?

[Abuz Zubair]

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=5856&postcount=3

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

Qadri go to hell i am not the person who has the nick amuslim4life

I am mustafa, so shut the hell up you takfiri.

My discussion i wish only to be with abu zubayr or others

[Logic lover]

A person holding the name 'Ahlus Sunnah' should know that what has been wished in the above post, is not what a person from Ahlus Sunnah would do to someone he disagrees with or has an issue with.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

Logic Lover, qadri has made takfir on me accusing me of being somebody im not. In the other thread he has made takfir of me and even close to making takfir upon akhi abu usama.

He has accused me of being amuslim4life (the nick) and this is my only name on the forum and my name is mustafa. Im the same khalid from SI. Yet these guy has made TAKFIR in the pretense that im some other guy

[islamic@rebel]

'ahlus sunnah' is a young brother that wants to learn. From what i know, the old R.I (bc of Faqir) confused him and a lot of people. He's just trying to find the truth. He posts 'proofs' for the other side so that our side can respond, not to necessarily show his beliefs. attacking him for asking or for wanting answer is not fair.

[abubakr]

Asalamu alaykum

back to the topic Ibn uthaymeen never said sitting (Julus) in the original arabic. he said bi dhatihi (his self).

قال الشيخ العثيمين رحمه الله في كتابه (عقيدة أهل السنة والجماعة)
ونؤمن بأنه {خَلَقَ السَّمَـوَتِ وَالاَْرْضَ فِى سِتَّةِ أَيَّامٍ ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى عَلَى الْعَرْشِ يُدَبِّرُ الاَْمْرَ} [يونس: 3]. واستواؤه على العرش: علوه عليه بذاته علوًّا خاصاً يليق بجلاله وعظمته لايعلم كيفيته إلا هو

Translation:

We believe that He (Allah) " created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then Istawâ (rose over) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty), disposing the affair of all things." (10:3)
And His istiwa' on the Throne: ('uloohu alayhi) Him rising over/ascending upon it by himself (thateh), a special rising/ascending that befits His Majesty and Greatness. Nobody knows its modality (kayfiyah) except Him.

[abubakr]

Imam Ibn Qayyim confirmed julus in his ijtima using a narration apparently from musnad of imam ahmad. Also imam al-Darimee confirmed julus in his refutaion of the jahmite bishree.

My question(to akhi abu zubair or any other brother) is are the narrations regarding julus authentic and can you bring some quotes from the salaf who described istawa as bi dhatihi and istiqraar?

Jazakallah khair

[Um Abdullah M.]

Imam Ibn Qayyim confirmed julus in his ijtima using a narration apparently from musnad of imam ahmad. Also imam al-Darimee confirmed julus in his refutaion of the jahmite bishree.

My question(to akhi abu zubair or any other brother) is are the narrations regarding julus authentic and can you bring some quotes from the salaf who described istawa as bi dhatihi and istiqraar?

Jazakallah khair

in regards to bi-dhatihi, it was understood by the first Salaf and not used. It was only used when deviant beliefs appeared negating that Allah is above His throne and did ta'wil to it, at that moment the scholars on the right path (ahl assunnah) used this word to refute those deviances.

we confirm the dhahir meaning of the sifat, and what is dhahir meaning of Allah istawa 'ala al-arsh ?
The dhahir is "bi-dhatihi" with his Essence.
If one says: "Allah istawa on His throne with His might" or anything else other than His essence than that would not be believing in the dhahir meaning of the attribute, it will then be "ta'wil" which the Salaf were against.
and Allah making istiwa over His Throne with His dhat does not necessarly imply that He is touching it.

and the Throne is above all of the creation (all the creation is below the Arsh), and no creation is above the arsh, so if one says that Allah is not above the arsh with his essence than one is saying that Allah is bellow it? which means Allah is inside His creation? or His creation is inside Him?
Exalted be Allah.
Allah is above all of His creation, which includes the arsh which is above all of the creation.

[Abuz Zubair]

My question(to akhi abu zubair or any other brother) is are the narrations regarding julus authentic and can you bring some quotes from the salaf who described istawa as bi dhatihi and istiqraar?

To my knowledge, there are no authentic reports where the wording julus or qu'ud are confirmed. But there is no surprise if some of the Salaf believed that Allah is actually sitting on the throne because this is one of the meanings of istawa...

When you say in Arabic: istawaytu 'ala al-dabba... meaning, I mounted the animal.

Safer position is to use the words of wahi, and that is istawa, which in all cases mean to rise over.