saaq

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

The day that the Shin shall be bared (68:42)

It is precisely the view of the massive majority that the baring of the shin is a metaphor for hardship, which at tabari references to ibn abbas, ibn masud, abu musa al ashari, mujahid, ikrima, al Dahhak, Qatada, and ibrahim al nakhai.

Ibn abbas explained This is a day of affliction and hardship and in another version It means the day of ressurection due to its hardship.

Ibn qutayba in mukhtalif al hadith states that the baring of the shin is a metonymy for travails in which one hitches up ones lower garments, baring the legs. Ibn al jawzee cites him and relates from ibn abbas, mujahid, ibrahim al nakhai, qatada and the vast majority of the scholars, the same meaning as do al Qushayri in his tafsir, ibn furak in mushkal al hadith al khattabi, ibn battal, ar razi, ibn hazm in the fisal, abu as suud in his tafsir, al baydawi in his, ibn kathir in his, al wahidi in his, the alalayn al suyuti in al durr al manthur al karmi (al handbali in aqawil al thiqat, al zarkashi in al burhan who cites it as an example of a metaphor which it is extremely offensive to interpret literally, and others such as ibn atiyya, abu hayyan in bahr , al fakhr ar razi, al nasafi, al alusi, al qasimi.


This explanation applies to the hadith of abu hurayra and abu said al khudri on the sight of Allah in al bukhari and muslim.

When said ibn jubayr (d94) was asked about it he became very angry and said: "Some people claim Allah uncovers his shin!!! Rather, He but uncovers affliction and hardship. As imam al izz ibn abd as salam said in al ishara ila al ijaz fi ba'd anwa al majaz: "It is a metaphor for His aggravation of the judgment of His enemies and their humiliation, defeat, and punishment. THe arabs say of one that acts earnestly and intesnely that he has bared his shin.

[Husain]

When said ibn jubayr (d94) was asked about it he became very angry and said: "Some people claim Allah uncovers his shin!!! Rather, He but uncovers affliction and hardship. [/COLOR]
Could you please provide this quote in Arabic? Because among the people who literally claimed "Our Lord will expose His shin" is the Prophet (a.s.s.) himself and he claimed it WITHOUT adding that this refers to affliction and hardship. And if this is what the common Arabs understood from his (a.s.s.) statement, there would be no need for creating such a sensation.

- Husain.

[Amid Khan]

I was reading this link:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13806&page=2

It mentions that an article on al-Saaq was written by someone called "Ibn Abi Yala". Does anyone have this article?

[Amid Khan]

Could you please provide this quote in Arabic? Because among the people who literally claimed "Our Lord will expose His shin" is the Prophet (a.s.s.) himself and he claimed it WITHOUT adding that this refers to affliction and hardship. And if this is what the common Arabs understood from his (a.s.s.) statement, there would be no need for creating such a sensation.

- Husain.


The quote from Sa'eed ibn Jubayr was mentiond by Imaam al-Suyutee in his Tafseer known as Durr al-Manthoor as follows:


وأخرج عبد بن حميد وابن المنذر عن سعيد بن جبير أنه سئل عن قوله: {يوم يكشف عن ساق} فغضب غضبا شديدا وقال: إن أقواما يزعمون أن الله يكشف عن ساقه، وإنما يكشف عن الأمر الشديد

The question is - Does anyone know the sanad from Abd ibn Humayd and ibn al Mundhir? Is it Sahih?

[Husain]

Now this is quite different and more logical. The translation on the top says "Some people claim ..." instead of "Some people think ...". As I said, even the Prophet (a.s.s.) claimed that Allaah will expose His shin.

But still it doesn't make sense to me that the Prophet (a.s.s) said something which amounts to misguidance if taken upon the dharir meaning. If he said it, then taking it upon the dharir can hardly be wrong as this is what every layman would understand, hence the Prophet (a.s.s.) himself would have warned us from doing so if it was so badly wrong.

- Husain.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

I was reading this link:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13806&page=2

It mentions that an article on al-Saaq was written by someone called "Ibn Abi Yala". Does anyone have this article?

i think there is a brother here who can pass on his research innsha'ALLAH ;)

[Abu_Abdallah]

If some people would ask Allah for guidance, performing Salat al-Istikharah, purify their intentions and make a righteous and sincere apparence, maybe some could disclose what others eagerly request..

But so long the smell of deception, lying and cheating can be experienced from across the sea, he gets nothing. For it is like Allah, the Exalted, said about some people {وَجَعَلْنَا عَلَى قُلُوبِهِمْ أَكِنَّةً أَن يَفْقَهُوهُ وَفِي آذَانِهِمْ وَقْرًا وَإِذَا ذَكَرْتَ رَبَّكَ فِي الْقُرْآنِ وَحْدَهُ وَلَّوْاْ عَلَى أَدْبَارِهِمْ نُفُورًا} and {وَلَيَزِيدَنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنْهُم مَّا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ طُغْيَانًا وَكُفْرًا فَلاَ تَأْسَ عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ} and whosever gets more mislead.

wa-Allahu Musta'an

[Amid Khan]

i think there is a brother here who can pass on his research innsha'ALLAH ;)


Yes please! Anyway, i recall the following in radd to Kabbani from Abu Hudhayfah:

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KABBANI’S USE OF ANOTHER INAUTHENTIC REPORT ASCRIBED TO IBN ‘ABBAAS

Likewise, Kabbani makes use of another inauthentic report attributed to ibn ‘Abbaas (p. 196):

"Ibn ‘Abbas said when he was asked about Allah’s saying ‘On the day the leg shall be uncovered’ (68:42): ‘If you find something from the Qur’an to be obscure, seek its meaning from poetry; verily poetry is the register (diwan) of the Arabs. Have you not heard the poet’s saying: Your people have opened the way of sword-blows upon the necks, And war or battle rose on every leg (i.e. it was impossible to flee).’ Then he said: ‘This is a day of affliction and violence.’ Thus the meaning of verse 69:42 is: ‘On the day when affliction befalls them in earnest.’"

The weakness of this report as well as other similar narrations has been dealt with in a precise manner by Shaykh Saleem al-Hilaalee in his book Manhal al-Raqraaq (refer specifically to pp. 17-36 for a clarification of the weakness of the narrations attributed to ibn ‘Abbaas).

Shaykh Saleem al-Hilaalee, in addition to mentioning the hadeeth of Aboo Sa’eed al-Khudree from al-Bukhaaree in which he attributes the Saaq (Shin) to Allaah: "It will be said to them: 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognise Him?' They will say: 'The Shin.' So Allaah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every Believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation (in this world)," also brings two reports from Aboo Hurairah (p.64) to the same effect:

i. Recorded by ibn Mandah in ar-Radd ‘ala al-Jaymiyyah (p.40) and al-Eemaan (811, 812), and ibn Jareer at-Tabaree in his Tafseer (29/26) with their chain of transmission. Shaykh al-Hilaalee says: "Its chain of transmission is saheeh, its narrators thiqah." ii. Recorded by ad-Daarimee in his Sunan (2/326) with his chain of transmission. Shaykh al-Hilaalee says: "Its chain is hasan, its narators are thiqah except for ibn Ishaaq for he is truthful and commits tadlees. However, he has clearly stated having heard the hadeeth, therefore it is hasan."

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Hence, there is a Saheeh narration from Bukharee and one from Abu Hurayar( ra) as Sunan al-Daarimee and others in ithbaat of al-saaq.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

it ain't me bro! ;)

[Amid Khan]

it ain't me bro! ;)


I thought not :) But if you know the brother who did then can you ask him to post his beneficial findings here :?: