Khilafah or Dawah?

[Break The Cross]

Salaam

I was speaking to a brother about Dawah (restricting this only to inviting people to Islam for now) and he gave me a interesting reply, he isnt part of any group by the way. He said our bigger priorities are to establish a state since this is an obligation that has been absent for quite a long time thus becomes Fard e ayn upon every Muslim. This takes priority above initiating Dawah to kuffar, which is Fard e kifayah. He said all this effort of "Daees" comming to the west (or who are already in the west) are trying to spread dawah to the kuffar is infact futile since the efforts should be the foremost in establishing Allah's Deen. People use Dawah as a excuse to settle in Dar ul Harb or to remain in Dar ul Harb while this is Shaytans deception since the sixth obstacle of Shaytan is "The Preoccupation of the slaves in activities which are less important"

I think what he said is true and the best answer given to me about Dawah. Since Khilafah is part of Tawheed which everyone is responsible for, in all the greater benefits from it and worth sacrificing ourselves for it. While Dawah to kuffar is important, but not as important nor will it solve the problems of the Ummah today. Infact most of the "daees" here in America might be helping some Muslims, but on the long run they are misguiding them since they themselves dont seem to understand the current affairs and why we are in the state of weakness. This can be seen from the tawheed head-bangers and tell everyone "learn learn learn" but they dont seem to know how to practise it themselves and leave off the obligations of Hijrah, Jihad, Khilafah and Hisbah. These four obligations i just mentioned are unherd of here in America and are even looked down upon! So what is there left of the Deen and how will you convey Islam to the kuffar when they themselves dont undertand?!

InshAllah i would like to discuss this and what others views are. :D

[Abu Nihla]

What do you understand by doing dawah and how do we differentiate what is not dawah i.e. inviting into Islaam and enjoining Muslims to practice and establish the deen of Allah.

To me, all are important, but the priority strength differes between the two and no one will be a sinner if he does either.

[Break The Cross]

What do you understand by doing dawah and how do we differentiate what is not dawah i.e. inviting into Islaam and enjoining Muslims to practice and establish the deen of Allah.

To me, all are important, but the priority strength differes between the two and no one will be a sinner if he does either.

Salaam, thanks for the reply.

Dawah in general could be many things which includes, Jihad, and Hisbah. But my point was that dawah to kuffar is not a individual obligation whether the Khilafah is here or not, its fard i kifiyah. Today whether you agree or not, Jihad is fard i ayn andoesn't a individual obligation take precedence over a communal? More specifically were in a state of emergency with no Khilafah AND we are being occupied. So our priority is Khilafah through Jihad by helping Muslims first and giving them Dawah before we try to spread Islam to the kuffar.
So all the effort that is being put into to spread Islam to the kuffar should first try to fix the Muslim problems first< thats what Im saying.

***These are all my opinion by the way, for now***

[Turaabie]

Walaykumus-Salaam Wa-Rahmatullaah.

I think it goes hand-in-hand. We can't stop giving Daw'aah to the Kuffaar, and just focus on establishing a Khaleefah! I agree the Ummah is in dire need.. But as Muslims we gotta Multi-Task! We can achieve both. So no point in discussing which better and greater, as the argument is quite baseless. We SHOULD be doing BOTH.

Jazzaakillaahu Khayran.


Hayaa'

[Break The Cross]

umm did you even read what I said? So your saying we should leave a Fard Ayn (jihad) which is being neglected and go to a kafir country (at war against Muslims) to fulfill something that is already being fulfilled? Like how can we fix someone else's house while ours is broken.

[Umm Ahmed]

You dont leave any of them , this is where partisim has occured , groups who only focus on one aspect of the religion.
The phrophet (pbuh) turned back men who wanted to go for Jihad for other obligations ( one for his wife to be accompanied to hajj an other because of his parents) .
I would not like to go off to jihad if I havent fulfilled my obligation to my neighbours in telling them about Islam (example), even though there is dawaa being given in the area , my neighbours would be my obligation.
Jihad is a noble path for any muslim , the fruits of that path are numerous so we know how important it is. All depends on the persons situation , but every muslim should have the intention to go.

[Break The Cross]

That was a nice reply, jazakullaah khayr.

I was reading this website http://www.islamic-truth.co.uk/sitef...or-shariah.htm

So this is where some of my ideas of Khilafah came from and it is important of course. I think what I need is something on methodology and how one can deal with the topics that I mentioned above in current times. Are there any English books on this inshAllah?

[Logic lover]

Umm Ahmed wrote:

''I would not like to go off to jihad if I havent fulfilled my obligation to my neighbours in telling them about Islam (example), ''

Reply: Jihad does not stipulate such condition for a Muslim. Therefore, there is no need to impose such condition and doing so would be contrary to the Sharia.

Allah knows best.

[Abuz Zubair]

Interesting topic, but I would like to make a few points.

1) We should try to look at the practicality of things, and not just get bogged down on theoretical issues.

2) Our discussions should result in action, and not just discussions and talks.

3) We should have a broader picture of the Umma and its needs, on a global and local level.

4) We should personally look at our own areas of expertise.

Our conclusion should be a combination of the four aforementioned points that takes into account practicality, our needs and our capabilities. This should dictate that people, depending on the four above mentioned points, differ with respect to priorities. Hence, not everyone is suitable for Guerilla warfare; not everyone is suitable for youth work, not everyone is suitable to engage the intellectuals, and not everyone is able to give 'dawa' however we were to define it, and not everyone is able to be a student of shara'i knowledge or a civil libertarian.

[Umm Ahmed]

Reply: Jihad does not stipulate such condition for a Muslim. Therefore, there is no need to impose such condition and doing so would be contrary to the Sharia.
Allah knows best.

I wouldn't impose that on anyone , its just me saying that going for jihad might mean one never coming back , I wouldn't want to have them on the day of judgement say he or she never told us about Islam , or would that all be dropped because I went to Jihad ?

[abufurqan]

as wr wb, brothers and sisters. There is the ahkaam of priorities in islam. so at the moment the jihaad is frad uz-zamaan (fard of the time), i dont think i need to explain this, it should be fairly obvious why insha'allah. But this also has conditions depending on where you are, capabilities, security, link etc. It is fard ul ayn to support physically, verbally and financially. If you can go and fight then go but if you cant and are living amongst the kuffar with covenant then your role is dawah, commanding gd and forbidding evil, trying to work to establish Allahs deen. you can still help by inciting the muslims, training yourself, speaking in support of them.

[Break The Cross]

ws wr wb

Yeah I agree it does also matter on where one is and what there duties are in that area. But also you have to remember their are obligations that take priority over others and these priorities are the greater benefit, dawah to kuffar is not one of them b/c there are bigger responsibilities:

Shaykh Ibn Taymiyya said "There is no more important obligation after Emaan itself than resisting the invading enemy who threatens the religion and the worldly life." And we all know there is a ijma on this issue and the obligation keeps spreading if the task isnt completed by the people of that area. Some say we cant fight without a Khalif and they are wrong no matter how much they try to prove it, which leads to my second point:

We also have the obligation of establishing the Islamic State (Khilafah) and having a bayah on our neck is fard e ayn. Hadith in Saheeh Muslim of ibn Umar from the Prophet [saaw] Whoever dies while he does not have a bayah upon his neck, dies a death of jahiliyah"
And the Hadith in Saheeh Bukhari of ibn Abbas Whoever hates something from his Ameer then he should be patient, because whoever departs one handspan away from the Sultan dies a death of jahiliyah"
So this second hadith proves the first hadith is referring to a Khalif and not a ameer of a Sufi Tariqa or party, this bayah is to a Khalif is fard e ayn. Also its common sense on all the greater benefits that will bring to the Muslims if the Islamic state is established.

So basically its 1)Emaanand especially al-Wala wal-Bara we need to have while engaged in 2)Jihad through which we will establish the 3)Khilafah. I think this is what is being referred to in the Hadith in Musnad Ahmad and at-Tirmidhi of al-Harith al-Ashari from the Prophet [saaw] "And I command you with five that Allah has commanded me: Jamaah, Hearing, Obeying, Hijrah and Jihad."

wa Allaahu Alim

[Abdullah al-Shishani]

ws wr wb

Shaykh Ibn Taymiyya said "There is no more important obligation after Emaan itself than resisting the invading enemy who threatens the religion and the worldly life." And we all know there is a ijma on this issue and the obligation keeps spreading if the task isnt completed by the people of that area.

I can clearly see from the example of Chechnya, how this statement is true, and another statement of the Sheikh about money being sent to mujahedeen while there are people starving. During the three years after the first war there was such a strong islamic awakening in Chechnya, and this was not because of any systematic effort by anyone, except some volunteers and even then the Kavkaz institute (:)) of Khattab, only had about 5000 people that took part in courses. However, this small effort made a good portion of Chechen young men adopting the correct manhaj, even though Chechens are very traditional society and sufi tariqas and zeal for Islam in general was the strongest in Chechnya from among the former soviet republics.

Anyway, now with a few years of occupation and very powerful and well financed programm by the kufar and munafiqeen, they are bringing up, althogh with a much lesser success a part of young generation that is very far both from islam, sufi islam and chechen traditions.

But alhamdulillah, the true muslims are in no comparison with the juhal they are trying to bring up. Infact no ideology or religion can bring up a person like Islam can, non is prepared to make sacrifices as a muslim is.

[Abuz Zubair]

So basically its 1)Emaanand especially al-Wala wal-Bara we need to have while engaged in 2)Jihad through which we will establish the 3)Khilafah. I think this is what is being referred to in the Hadith in Musnad Ahmad and at-Tirmidhi of al-Harith al-Ashari from the Prophet [saaw] "And I command you with five that Allah has commanded me: Jamaah, Hearing, Obeying, Hijrah and Jihad."
All well and good theoretically speaking. But honestly speaking, do you really think that by thinking in these very simple terms we will get the Ummah anywhere?

Do we understand the complex nature of our problems to begin with, before we even get to realise the complex nature of the solution?

You see, my contention is that I have seen all of this in college and uni days. Brothers continue to have these theoretical discussions in the halls of residence all night long, and in the morning they continue with their normal lives.

Rarely anyone actually, realistically, analyses the situation we are in, and even more rare are those who actually have a practical and achievable vision, a plan for the next 5-10 years, and do whatever they can practically do to achieve that vision.

We have to be more than dreamers if we are to lead the Ummah.

[ibnYaseen]

We have to be more than dreamers if we are to lead the Ummah.

I agree with this statement and your whole post. I remember such late-night, if not all-night long discussions at uni on how this-that and this needs to be done to "fix" the ummah's situation -- the more the discussions continue the quicker the cloud of apathy and unrealism comes hovering.. and as you said, come the next day the norms and trivials of normal life continue until the next late nighter comes along. A lot of talk... rarely any action manifesting.