Seeing and hearing?

[abubakr]

Asalamu alaykum

The asharis have made the following reasons in order to justify the affirmation of attributes of seeing and hearing as opposed to hands.

The reason was made by "sheikh" Abdullah ibn Hamid 'Ali:

"As for hearing and sight – even though it impresses upon one the perception of the bodily limb (al-jaarihah) – it also indicates linguistically the perception of something heard and something seen. So the impression of imperfection is removed at that time, because it is a linguistic fact with relation to both of them. "

Can akhi abu zubair and other brothers share their thoughts?

Jazakallah

[abu-usaama]

who the heck are they to say which attributes should be accepted and rejected for Allaah ta'ala?

Doesnt Allaah say:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تُقَدِّمُوا بَيْنَ يَدَيِ اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ

"O you who believe! Do not put (yourselves) forward before Allah and His Messenger (SAW),"
[Surah hujuraat aayah 1]

If Allaah informs us He has a Hand then He has a Hand, and if Allaah informs us He has Hearing, then He has Hearing. The salaf never accepted some and rejected some, or distorted some and keep some the way they are. They accepted them all as they came.

[Abuz Zubair]

"As for hearing and sight – even though it impresses upon one the perception of the bodily limb (al-jaarihah) – it also indicates linguistically the perception of something heard and something seen. So the impression of imperfection is removed at that time, because it is a linguistic fact with relation to both of them. "

They say that hand is only known to us as a bodily limb, and this is why Allah cannot have a hand.

We say: Sight is also only known to us as perceiving all viewable with an optical device.

Hearing is also only known to us as perceiving all the audible with a hearing device.

Yet, they do not believe that Allah sees with an optical device like an eye, or hears with an hearing instrument like the ears.

Similarly, we too can believe that Allah has a hand which is not a bodily limb (although to be on the safe side, we would refrain from using terms which Allah never used to describe Himself with)

Also, hearing and seeing are not known to us except in the form of accidents. Yet, the Ash'aris believe that Allah hears and sees, whilst neither of them are accidents.

[abusufyaan]

We also forgive and have mercy on one another. So doesn't this mean that according to their "logic," Allah cannot be forgiving and merciful?

[Um Abdullah M.]

If Allaah informs us He has a Hand then He has a Hand, and if Allaah informs us He has Hearing, then He has Hearing. The salaf never accepted some and rejected some, or distorted some and keep some the way they are. They accepted them all as they came.

when I read ur post, this ayah came to my mind:

ثُمَّ أَنتُمْ هَؤُلاء تَقْتُلُونَ أَنفُسَكُمْ وَتُخْرِجُونَ فَرِيقاً مِّنكُم مِّن دِيَارِهِمْ تَظَاهَرُونَ عَلَيْهِم بِالإِثْمِ وَالْعُدْوَانِ وَإِن يَأتُوكُمْ أُسَارَى تُفَادُوهُمْ وَهُوَ مُحَرَّمٌ عَلَيْكُمْ إِخْرَاجُهُمْ أَفَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِبَعْضِ الْكِتَابِ وَتَكْفُرُونَ بِبَعْضٍ فَمَا جَزَاء مَن يَفْعَلُ ذَلِكَ مِنكُمْ إِلاَّ خِزْيٌ فِي الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يُرَدُّونَ إِلَى أَشَدِّ الْعَذَابِ وَمَا اللّهُ بِغَافِلٍ عَمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ

((After this, it is you who kill one another and drive out a party of you from their homes, assist (their enemies) against them, in sin and transgression. And if they come to you as captives, you ransom them, although their expulsion was forbidden to you. Then do you believe in a part of the Scripture and reject the rest? Then what is the recompense of those who do so among you, except disgrace in the life of this world, and on the Day of Resurrection they shall be consigned to the most grievous torment. And Allâh is not unaware of what you do. )) Baqarah:85

kind of like picking and choosing what fits their greek logic.

May Allah guide them.

[Um Abdullah M.]

They say that hand is only known to us as a bodily limb, and this is why Allah cannot have a hand.


This is evidance that they are using their limited minds to decide which attribute mentioned in Quran or Sunnah should be affirmed with the meaning and which ones should not be affirmed with the meaning.
This is actually trying to fit Allah in one's limited mind, when one says "we can't comprehend Allah having a hand that is not a limb because OUR MINDS can only comprehend a hand that is a limb, so we reject Allah having a hand".

our minds can't comprehend Allah and His attributes, so we shouldn't be trying to fit into our limited minds.