Britain's New Preachers Of Hate

[waziri]

11 January 2007
BRITAIN'S NEW PREACHERS OF HATE
By Bobby Pathak
IN a dilapidated mosque, half a dozen awestruck young men listen to a preacher spell out his vision for Britain.

"King, Queen, House of Commons... if you accept it, you are a part of it," says Dr Ijaz Mian. "If you don't accept it, you have to dismantle it.

"So you being a Muslim, you have to fix a target. There will be no House of Commons. From that White House to this Black House, we know we have to dismantle it.


"Muslims must grow in strength... then take over."


A 10-month undercover investigation into home-grown extremism has revealed hard-line Islamic fundamentalism being preached in British mosques.


Some speakers call for girls to be hit if they don't wear Islamic dress and say that they can marry before puberty, others praise the Taliban.


Speaking at the Ahl-e-Hadith mosque, in Derby, Dr Mian tells his listeners: "You are in a situation in which you have to live like a state-within-a-state - until you take over.


"But until this happens, you have to preach, until you become such a force that the people just submit to you."


Dr Mian wants to see religious policemen roaming our streets, modelled on the feared Saudi Arabian force.


He says of their strict implementation of Sharia - or Islamic - law: "They send the police and they say: 'Well, if you don't come for prayer, we will arrest you. But if you still don't, then we have to bring the punishment on you - you will be killed and nobody will pray for you.'"


Dr Mian is just one of many UK preachers who've been taught the wahhabi branch of Islam in Saudi Arabia, then come back here to spread the word.


The radical ideology, which is bitterly opposed to multi-culturalism and integration, is spreading in Britain.


And it's coming from clerics in a country that the British government claims is its main Middle Eastern ally in the fight against terrorism.


At UKIM's Sparkbrook Islamic Centre, in Birmingham - which PM Tony Blair has lauded for its multi-cultural activities - a preacher praised the Taliban.


He gloated over the fate of British Muslim Jabron Hashmi, who joined the British Army and was killed by the Taliban in Afghanistan. "The hero of Islam is the one who separated his head from his shoulders," he says.


A spokesman for UKIM, which runs the mosque, said their mosque had been hired out to another group and the speaker had been talking at that event.


The spokesman added: "We are a nationwide organisation and hold different programmes in our mosques. Anyone can air their views.


"These are his own views, not those of UKIM. We're very concerned about this."


The probe uncovered British preachers being trained in Saudi Arabia and mosques taking money from rich sheikhs. DVDs and tapes of radical speakers, who are linked to Saudi, are available. They attack integration, multiculturalism and even other Muslims who don't follow their extreme brand of Islam. It's a theology which many moderates are deeply concerned about, as they see the traditional, more tolerant beliefs being eroded.


On one DVD, filmed in a mosque run by a national Islamic charity - which claims to be committed to moderation - a speaker said girls should be "forced" to wear the hijab and, shockingly, adds: "If she doesn't wear hijab, we hit her."


Undercover reporters spent four months filming at Green Lane mosque, in Birmingham, an enormous place which caters for thousands of worshippers.


One preacher there said that marrying your daughter off before she reaches puberty is permissible in Islam.


But the main preacher at Green Lane is Abu Usamah, an American convert who studied at Medinah University in Saudi Arabia.


He rails against non- Muslims, telling listeners not to believe in the arrests of alleged terrorists in Britain - as non- Muslims are liars.


Green Lane mosque says it is a centre for "interfaith communication and dialogue", welcoming people of all religions and cultures. But in front of a Muslim-only audience, Abu Usamah says that Jews and Christians were "enemies" to Muslims. He goes on to condemn the kuffaar - infidels or non-believers.


"No one loves the kuffaar, not a single person here loves the kuffaar," he rants. "We hate the kuffaar!"


Although he says he doesn't agree with Osama Bin Laden's violent actions, he says he prefers him to non-Muslims, because Bin Laden is a Muslim. "He's better than a million George Bushs, he's better than a thousand Tony Blairs.


"Allah has not given those people who are kuffaar a way over the believer. They shouldn't be in authority over us," he tells his listeners. "Muslims shouldn't be satisfied with living in anything other than a total Islamic state."


He urges worshippers to discriminate against homosexuals but in a way that ensures they don't get caught. "If I were to call homosexuals perverted, dirty, filthy dogs who should be murdered, that's my freedom of speech, isn't it?" he says. "But they'll say no, I'm not tolerant."


Women, too, are inferior in Abu Usamah's eyes. He tells his audience: "Allah has created the woman - even if she gets a PhD - deficient. Her intellect is incomplete, deficient. She may be suffering from hormones that will make her emotional. It takes two witnesses of a woman to equal the one witness of the man."


Abu Usamah says that he condemns terrorism. But he predicts that an army of Muslims will soon arise to wage jihad - or war - against non-believers.


"They will fight in the cause of Allah. I encourage all of you to be from among them, to begin to cultivate ourselves for the time that is fast approaching - where the tables are going to turn and the Muslims are going to be in the position of being uppermost in strength.


"And when that happens, people won't get killed - unjustly," he threatens.


Green Lane mosque is the headquarters of the Markazi Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith, a registered British charity which runs more than 40 mosques and branches in the UK.


It's an influential affiliate of the Muslim Council Of Britain, which has praised it as "a national body", "respected among British Muslims for its educational and outreach programmes".


It runs a part-time Islamic school for 200 local children and the mosque has been praised by Lord Nazir Ahmed, Labour's first Muslim peer.


He sat on a highprofile taskforce - set up after the 7/7 attacks - to combat extremism in mosques. He also headed a working group on extremism in mosques and imams.


In 2003, he said of Green Lane mosque: "This is the most amazing place. When I walk in, I feel I am entering the biggest palace on earth." Most of the speakers there have been trained in Saudi universities.


And to underline the point, throughout last year, live satellite links were set up to broadcast talks from the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, the country's most senior Islamic cleric.


In the course of one live session, one worshipper asked the cleric, through a translator, if Muslims should establish good relations and forgiveness between religions.


The Grand Mufti slapped him down. "This is not true. Jews and Christians who do not follow the Prophet Mohammed are kuffaar. They will go to hell."


FOR his part, Abu Usamah later said: "Islam allows for any Muslim to peacefully co-exist here in the UK with non-Muslims, even though the UK is not an Islamic society."


He said he had made it clear that it is a religious duty of all Muslims to obey UK law and the carrying out of Islamic law could only be done in an actual Islamic state.


He added: "Homosexuality is an abomination against Allah and all mankind, and I will never condone it. Even though this is the case, I do not believe in disobeying the law when it comes to the way people deal with homosexuals."


Lord Ahmed told us that Green Lane mosque was one of many mosques he visited. "It would be ludicrous to suggest that by visiting an institution I become responsible for, or aware of, every word spoken at that establishment."


The Markazi Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith told us that it was "committed to promoting inter-faith dialogue and political harmony in our society".


It said that scholars from many different backgrounds spoke at its mosque and that we had quoted many out of context.


It had not known what each speaker would say beforehand and did not necessarily agree with everything that may have been said.


It said the word kuffaar was a neutral term, and added: "We reject the assertion... that we are influenced by and teach an extreme version of Islam.


"We have no desire or intention to seize power or discriminate against others. We accept the rule of law and we treat our non-Muslim neighbours with respect."


Finally, Dr Mian said that he did not advocate that Islam would be forced upon anyone and said we had not quoted his many speeches condemning terrorism and the killing of innocent people.


DISPATCHES: Undercover Mosque, Monday, 8pm on Channel 4.


Fix a target. You have to live just like a state-withina- state.. until you take over


Women are deficient.. even if she gets a PhD her intellect is incomplete

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_headline=britain%2Ds-new-preachers-of-hate%26method=full%26objectid=18442715%26siteid=94 762-name_page.html

[Umm Ahmed]

Evesdropping will always leave one not understanding half of whats being said . Most of the above article will be twisted due to a lack of understanding Islaam .
The problem is the media are not interested in why a girl is encouraged to marry early or why a woman is defficent in certain matters.

[abu~Adil as somali]

in the last friday khutba and the one before, and to be honest few times last year shiek abu usaama athahabi has stressed out that among us their were (munafiqeen) who were recording by video and audio during the friday khutba and during lectures, he has said nothing that the quran and the sunnah hasnt said, he hasnt crossed any lines but till these people silence all the voices imams of haaq.

while the kuffar are attacking the muslims regardless of what sect they belong to. a group of so callled salafis have emerged to be used as a tool by the kufar and the munafiqeen, that tool is in the shape of abu khadija and co from the salafi publication, salafitalk and other sites which intented on attacking muslims in the name of salafiya. while they attacking other muslims and having their names blasted all over the internet and kafir papers as the way forward, they have forgot the words of Allah azza wajal, that the yahood and kufar will not accept you till they divert you from your deen and you are on what theyr on,

in a world wer muslims are being attacked by many means, the first stage of the attack is always the media attack to soften the public opinion, and what we see today is excatly that, and before that do that, they divide the ummah, by that i mean they will work with a group and demonise the other group..and now they have done that.

SP, abu Khadija & co have been dancing in the streets on the day ali tamimi was sentenced to life when in 2004, they attacked every known salafi da'3ee in one time or another, and they took well known brothers out of the deen and while all that is hapning they pockets got fatter and the trail of sisters they have married and divoreced in the name of the deen has gone thro the roof.

what chance do muslims have if the kaffir is using muslims to attack muslims.


Background:

On Monday 15th January Channel 4 Dispatches will be broadcasting a
programme about the influence of Saudi Arabia on the spread of
terrorist activities.

While there maybe differences of opinion amongst the Muslim
community on certain issues it is unacceptable for Channel 4 to
capitalise on those differences in order to attack basic Islamic
principles. Among other things the programme discusses issues such
as homosexuality, and whether or not Muslims should join the British
Army or the police. This programme is coming after more then a year
of sustained Islamaphobic attacks both on TV and in the media
attacking the Muslims.

It is clear that dispatches set out with a pre-determined agenda to
create mischief and portray Muslim organisations in a negative
light, in order to cause mayhem between Muslims and non-Muslims and
also to cause a divide between Muslims themselves, not to mention
destroying community relations as well as alienating Muslims.

The time has come for us to say enough is enough. We must unite in
order to defend ourselves from this onslaught, any debate regarding
Islam, should be had by the Muslim community and not by those who
seek to divide the Muslims and pit one group of Muslims against the
other.

[Umm Ahmed]

The time has come for us to say enough is enough. We must unite in
order to defend ourselves from this onslaught, any debate regarding
Islam, should be had by the Muslim community and not by those who
seek to divide the Muslims and pit one group of Muslims against the
other.

That's exactly right

[Brother_Mujahid]

I always thought Abu Usamah adh-Dhabai was something of a quasi-Madkhalee and part of the Saalim al-Hilaali crew, good to know he still has a good understanding of al-wa'laa wal-ba'raa.

As for Abu Khadijaah al-Kharij'ee, he is a criminal and a likely British government agent. His crowd of neo-Kharij'ee cronies (Talafi Fabrications and TalafiTalk.net) love to do nothing but see other Muslims get in trouble with the government: Ali at-Tamimi, Abu Hamzah al-Masri, Abu Qataada, etc. May Allaah give Abu Khadijaah and his cohorts what they deserve.

[abu~Adil as somali]

as far as abu usaamah being a madkhalee then that couldnt be further from the truth, walalhi i havnt come a cross someone who tell's it how it is for a long time, regadles of who takes him out of the manhaj or attacks him on their munafiiq sites. with all the ahlu bid'a and grave worshipin masajid in Birmingham, these so called da'ee's have gathered all their strenghth to attack one of the most knowledgeable ppl in the city, althought they themself have not gained any qualification or have been cleared by any shiek or institutue to call the people or teach or preach or reach anyone. they are producing tapes of qaala wa qeela,

Who are the Scholars of Spubs?



The hizb (party) known as “Spubs” has special party members that make up its “shoorah of evil and corruption”. Whilst much can be said about the general rabble that makes up this cult’s tiny following, we will concentrate instead on the cult figureheads.



Importantly, all of the figureheads of the SP cult are people lacking any grounding or qualifications in Islamic Knowledge. They are all general riff-raff who have tried to raise themselves above their status by various means of shameless self-promotion, self-infatuation and extreme exaggeration.



Not one of SP’s “shoorah of evil and corruption” has gained any Islamic qualification. Contrary to the correct methodology of da’wah they have missed out the step of patiently and systematically learning the Islamic Knowledge before busying themselves with affairs that are beyond them, both in terms of general worldly ability and specific Islamic
expertise.



Let us look one-by-one at some of these figureheads of the SP hizb. It is only fair and just that a critique of these individuals be performed because they call to themselves and put themselves forward as guides for the people. By their doing this it gives everyone a clear right to question and to examine who they are.


And if the SP hizb are not happy with the results of that, then they can only blame themselves for their self-promotion. As the saying goes “if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!” So let the crying blind-followers remain silent and withhold their objections of “backbiting”.

Shaikh Saalih ibn Fawzaan (hafidhahullaah) said:

“Along with this, it is Waajib to look into those individuals who affiliate themselves to the Da'wah, where did they study? Where did they take their knowledge from? Where did they grow and develop? And what is their Aqeedah? The Most High has said:

(((Or is it that they did not recognize their Messenger, so they deny him?))) [Soorah Al-Mu'minoon: 69]

So it is Waajib to look into their actions and the effect they have upon the people, and what have they produced from goodness? And what effect have their actions had on rectification?

So it is Waajib to study their state of affairs before their statements and outward appearances are relied upon. This affair is a must, specifically in this time, where there are many callers to Fitnah and indeed the Prophet sal-Allaahu ‘alayhe wa sallam described the callers to Fitnah, that they will be a people from ourselves, speaking our language…”



Part 1 – “The Self-Appointed Corrupt Da’ee”



abdul wahid alam also known as abu khadeejah from Birmingham has become known with the term “the self-appointed corrupt da’ee”. He is an ignorant individual who was not even practising when he first started involving himself in affairs of da’wah in Bradford University.

He was nurtured upon the methodology of Ikhwaan ul Muslimeen from whom he obtained the whole idea that anyone can put himself forward to teach and lecture. After Bradford he moved on to Manchester where he used to put himself forward to do talks by first listening to the tapes of Abu Usaamah Ath-Thahabi and then copying them word for word in the evenings. He would on occasion stay up until the early hours of the morning discussing with Ikhwaani/HT girls in the university (there are witnesses to this!).

...HE HAS NO ISLAMIC BACKGROUND OR ISLAMIC KNOWLEDGE.

He spent time working for the soofi charity organisation Islamic Relief and promoting their sufi activities. He was seen once taking out a nice coat from the donated things and taking it for his noble self.

He went to Bosnia on behalf of “Islamic Relief” and from there he brought back a wife.

...HE HAS ALWAYS ABUSED HIS POSITIONS WITH RESPECT TO MONEY AND WOMEN.

For a while he got involved with the so called 'jihadi' and it was
a common site to see him shouting “hoo haa” whilst training with the ultimately he travelled overseas to train with them but they said he bottled it and was weeping on the shoulder of the Shahid Butt asking to go home.

On his return to the UK he became involved with JIMAS and Abu Muntasir whom he would promote and defend.

Then he split with JIMAS and took dawood burbank with him, and set up his own party calling it “SP” along with his cousin amjad rafiq. Then he began to exaggerate and promote burbank and then by using the “noble mutual tazkiyah manhaj” (you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours) he started doing his own circles and made himself out to be knowledgeable in “manhaj”. Abu Muntasir was the one from whom he learnt to praise burbank, as Abu Muntasir used to refer to burbank as 'Shaikh dawood'!!!



For a year (after his “clear manhaj” declarations) he went to Kuwait to work for and promote an Ikhwaani school. Despite some of the circles of knowledge being easily accessible he did not attend the lessons by the Shaikhs of Kuwait and did not even take the opportunity to learn Arabic.

...ONE RULE FOR HIM AND ANOTHER FOR EVERYONE ELSE.

He was once asked, after giving a speech at a wedding, where he had studied Islam? He lied to the man asking the question saying “I gained my primary degree at Bradford University and postgraduate studies in Manchester. Then I studied in Kuwait.” The noble fraudster studied engineering in Bradford, secular teaching (PGCE) in Manchester and in Kuwait he only worked and he lied to a general person to make himself out to be more than he is!

He also propagated the lie amongst his hizb that when he was in Kuwait he studied under Shaikh Aboo Anas Hammad al ‘Uthmaan, he also propagated the lie (in a catalogue) that the Shaikh was linked with SP’s “shoorah of evil and corruption”, when these were found out to be lies then he spun a web to hide behind and blamed others!

Once he was in a car with a group of brothers and was flicking through a book on the science of hadeeth in front of them saying: "Masha-allah we studied this. When asked; with who? He angrily replied: "NEVER YOU MIND."

...HE LIES ABOUT HIMSELF TO RAISE HIS OWN STATUS.

He started to do “manhaj” circles in Green Lane Masjid who allowed him to do so along with dawood burbank. His circles were bereft of any Islamic Knowledge (how can a bankrupt person give what he doesn’t have? how can ships sail on dry land?!) and contained only jarh wa jahl (disguised as the knowledge of Jarh and ta’deel). It wasn’t long before his
ambitions for power began to come to the fore and he started to use his circles to attack any and everyone who he saw as an obstacle to his ambitions of becoming Imam of Green Lane Masjid. He started to attack and berate the Masjid authorities on anything he could find, his father even went to the Masjid Committee asking them to hand over the keys to his son! saying "when are you going to give the keys to my son."

...HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AFTER POWER AND LEADERSHIP.

Despite the Masjid authorities extreme leniency with them he went too far when he caused a large fight in the Masjid - ON THE 27TH OF RAMADHAAN!!! - after publically calling a general brother a Hizbee in one of his circles, the police had to be called and only then his evil, corrupt ircles were banned.

However his evil could not be contained even then, he then claimed that stopping his circles is opposing the manhaj and he insisted abu talha dawood also stop his (slightly less ignorant) circles. Then he went around claiming that Green Lane Masjid had stopped the teaching of Kitaab at Tawheed and that the reason for this was that they hated Tawheed!!!!

...HE LIES TO CAUSE SEPARATION WITHIN AHLUSSUNNAH!!!

...HE USES AT-TA’WEEL WAT-TALAAZIM AL BAATILAH (FALSE iNTERPRETATIONS AND INTERPOLATIONS) TO ATTACK PEOPLE OF SUNNAH!!

He also made tabdee’ of those brothers associated with Al-Hidaayah bookshop (salafis) and told people it was their religious duty not to shop there. He then gathered money off the people to make his own shop (in his OWN name) and then told them it was their religious duty to shop at his shop!

He made tabdee’ of Hamd House School (salafis). Then he set up his own school again using the people’s money and poached staff and pupils from Hamd House School again by telling them in effect it was their religious duty to support his noble businesses!

When some salafi brothers set up a bookshop in another area of Birmingham called “Mountains of Knowledge” he let his (ig)noble hasad and envy and jealousy spill out in his ‘Eid khutbah and called them “Mountains of Hizbiyyah” during the khutbah!

The only bookshops he doesn’t attack in England are the “franchises” of his own business “salafibookstore”. He dupes people into believing that becoming a franchise under his business umbrella is part of the Salafi Da’wah, he has so far duped blind-followers in Slough, Bradford and Cardiff.

He once used an ‘Eid khutbah to say to the people “if you are not at our circles then we doubt your salafiyyah!”

When some brothers from Alum Rock published a book he was furious at them for doing it without his permission. He said "Why do you need to publish books, when we are doing that?" He then proceeded to run a defamation campaign and vendetta against them including giving a talk in which he called for them to be made hajr of and an 86-page PDF document which he sent all over the world. They confronted him face to face at that talk and he could not reply to their request for proof, after which his henchmen threw them out into the street.

He made tabdee’ of the whole of Markazi Jamiat Ahle Hadith UK! General mass tabdee' and caused splitting in the Masaajid of Ahle Hadith up and down the country.

Yet he was silent regarding Riyadh ul Haq and the Deobandis, the Barelawis and the Soofis, the Shiah and the Qadiyanis in his own city never saw any effects from him!!!

...ANYONE SEEN AS A THREAT TO HIS POSITION OR AN OBSTACLE TO HIS AMBITION IS RUTHLESSLY CUT DOWN.

...HE USES MANHAJ TO FURTHER HIS OWN BUSINESS AND FOR HIS DUNYA.

...HE TEACHES THAT DA’WAH IS ONLY UNDER HIM.

...HE LEAVES THE REAL AHLUL BID'AH WELL ALONE AND DIRECTS HIS POISON ONLY AT AHLUS SUNNAH.

He tried to force other brothers including TheClearPath.Com, Coventry, Oldbury to take a position against and make hajr of Alum Rock. He even said 'You are either with us or with them', mimicking George Bush? He said to some of them, “You can’t have one foot in this boat and one foot in another.” He told one of the brothers not to ask him for daleel (evidence) about Alum Rock saying “I am thiqah (a reliable narrator)!” and asking the brother “did you ask Yahya bin Ma’een (a great scholar of the salaf) for daleel?!”

In a circle in his musallah he once said to the people “we are watching you” and “don’t think you can come here and go to Green Lane like a mouse!” and "you did not put me here and you are not going to remove me, this is not a democracy." Nor is it a fascist style dictatorship and he put himself there, it is only his desire to attain wealth and status that
causes him to do all this EVIL. He even once said: "The Ulema put me here and the ulema can remove me". Which Ulema were they, one would have to ask? Shaikh Saleem and Ali? Abu Anas? Perhaps the infamous ALLAMAH FAALIH (drool) Al HARBEE? All of whom he has dropped since then.

...HE USES FALSE RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES AND MAFIA TACTICS TO BULLY PEOPLE.

...HIS FOLLOWERS ARE SCARED AND THREATENED INTO OBEDIENCE.

The above is just a short taster of the evil and corruption of the “self-appointed corrupt da’ee” and is fully backed with evidences and witnesses.

taken from ahya forum

[Brother_Mujahid]

as far as abu usaamah being a madkhalee then that couldnt be further from the truth,

I'm not interested in making a big deal about Abu Usamah, as I am happy to see what he said in this article, but he did go around with Saalim al-Hilaali (who is in agreement with the Rab'ee al-Madkhalee in all their extreme irj'aa, though doesn't have the extremist tab'dee). I remember the time that Abu Usamah and Saalim al-Hilaali were going to debate Abu Hamzah, but then backed out.

The one thing I never understood is why radical Madkhalee fanatic Dawud Adib (the American Abu Khadijaah) had it out for Abu Usamah, calling him the "worst fitnah" of the past 70 years. Adib had a lecture entitled "Happiness is in Salafiyyah" in which he attacked Abu Usamah and Abu Muslimah through most of the lecture (and didn't seem very happy in his "Salafiyyah").

[Turaabie]

I'm not interested in making a big deal about Abu Usamah, as I am happy to see what he said in this article, but he did go around with Saalim al-Hilaali (who is in agreement with the Rab'ee al-Madkhalee in all their extreme irj'aa, though doesn't have the extremist tab'dee). I remember the time that Abu Usamah and Saalim al-Hilaali were going to debate Abu Hamzah, but then backed out.

The one thing I never understood is why radical Madkhalee fanatic Dawud Adib (the American Abu Khadijaah) had it out for Abu Usamah, calling him the "worst fitnah" of the past 70 years. Adib had a lecture entitled "Happiness is in Salafiyyah" in which he attacked Abu Usamah and Abu Muslimah through most of the lecture (and didn't seem very happy in his "Salafiyyah").

as-Salaamu `Alaikum.

Brother, do you know where one can get hold of this lecture? Inshaa-Allaah.

Jazzaakillaahu Khairan.

wa-'Alaikumus-Salaam.

[Brother_Mujahid]

as-Salaamu `Alaikum.

Brother, do you know where one can get hold of this lecture? Inshaa-Allaah.

Jazzaakillaahu Khairan.

wa-'Alaikumus-Salaam.

The Dawud Adib lecture? Believe me, it isn't worth listening to.

[Turaabie]

Khayr Inshaa-Allaah.

[Hakeem]

Did not this Abu Usama attack Sheikh Umar Abdur Rahman?
and Sheikh Abu Hamza wrote a refutation of this attack and offered his Sheikh Salim Hilali a debate which was accepted but did not go through because Salim Hilali did not turn up?

If this is the case then what is Abu Usama's position with regards to the afore mentioned sheikhs?

[waziri]

Abu Usama's differences with the madakhila are only superficial,they agree on most of the issues which are contrary to the haqq.

He gave a lecture in which he attacked shaykh Umar Abur Rahman,in which he stated that the dawah of shaykh Umar abdur Rahman is the dawah of the khawarij.

When questioned as to why the saudi leadership had allowed the crusader armies to launch their crusade from the hijaz he immediatly attacked the questioner for having his jeans rolled up and said that he shoulld cut them as to have them rolled up(Above the ankle)was incorrect.So here he used this example to compare the action of a layman to that of the saudi rulers and tried to suggest that both were guilty of not ruling according to what Allah had revealed and that it was not major kufr in both situations(what a ridiculous comparison to make).This shows the lengths that this man Abu Usama will go to in order to defend the actions of the saudi rulers,

On another occasion (after having delivered a talk on jihad)he was questioned as to which jihad in the world today did he consider to be truly fisabilillah,he became angry and refused to answer and used a narration in which one sahabi had stated that "if I were to tell you what I know I would be killed"when further questioned about the permisibility of martyrdom operations on the same occasion(the questioner used the term suicide bombings)he became more angry and started to bang on the table and said you people are trying to get me in trouble with the government and if you were my brothers you would not ask such questions.


Shaykh Abdullah has refuted this person here

http://www.streetdawah.com/faisal.html

The lecture in which he has been refuted is entitled "the devils deception of the 21st century house niggers" go down the list and click on the above named lecture.Please note that shaykh Faisal has made takfir of him in this lecture and from what I understand he has gone back on some of his takfir since this recording was made.

[Logic lover]

Abus Usama is a preacher of hate for the Mujahideen.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Brother, the lectures of Abdullaah al-Faisal are full of extremism in takfeer, and I advice against spreading them around (so as not to misguide the ignorant people). In refuting the Murjee'ah in our times we shouldn't go to the other extreme, which is unrestricted takfeer. If you want a refutation of what Abu Usamah adh-Dhahabi said about Shaykh 'Omar 'Abdur-Rahmaan (faka ullaah asra), it would be better to promote the one done by Abu Hamzah (faka ullaah asra). This lecture is avaliable on http://www.aswj.eu/abuhamza.htm

[abu~Adil as somali]

o dear brothers: abi usamma is from my local masjid, and if u like to kno about the condition of aperson then u ask the people who are close to him..

the whole world has woken up to the aggression and crimes of kufar & the arab countries, we have seen over the years from one country to the nxt the war of terrier is a war againts islam, and the preachers, da'ees, imams, shieks who used to busy themselfs with fighs issues the manhaj, refutations, writin or warning againts fullan and giving to tazkiyah to a'laan, have woken up to the fact that while they are chasin these meaninless matters in a time when deen is under the fire from the kufar.Abu usaama is one of them imaams,

if you want him to endorse suicide bombing on a minbar on a friday khutba, then you are asking for trouble akhi, becuase you are more valuable to your community if you stay out of a kafir jail.

in the past 2 years i havnt seen abu usaama talk nothing but Haq, and forbiden the batiil, he has left the talk of the manhaj and focused on uniting the muslim community wher ever he is, because he has relized united we hv a voice we have a presenc and we have the strength, againts attacks from the media, and the state.

but whats stonishing is while he is being called a wahabi by media, sp calling him a khariji, and on here he is called a murji, all he does is warn the muslims of the danger of not gaining knowledge, dangers of the disunity, dangers of selling out to the kufar and he makes du'aa for the mujahdeen where ever they are.

and about 30 seconds walk from the masjid you have the SP headquaters printing our leaflets about how the mujahdeen and who ever supports them a fitna on the ummah and how abu usaama was refuted by rabee al madkhali and how he is not to be taken from. yet the haq always shines and abu usama does have the knoweldge to back up his claims.

ne way brothers..what ever mistakes abu usaama was on then may allah forgive him for it, and now from what i hv seen with my own eyes week in week out that he speaks nothing but the truth..

walahu a3laam

[Brother_Mujahid]

I for one am glad to hear that Abu Usamah has left some of his more extreme positions. May Allaah keep him firm and expose the hypocrites and agents of the West.

[waziri]

Asalamualaykum akhi abu~Adil as somali,

If Abu Usama supports mujahideen then why does he attack shaykh ul Jihad Usama ibn Laden?Why does he say "we do not accept the Jihad of Usama ibn Laden"?Why doesnt he tell us which Jihad he does support?If he wants to give lectures on Jihad dont you think he should also answer questions on the subject?Why does he regard the mistakes of a layman to be the same as the saudi rulers?and if he doesnt then why does he say such things.Is it only now that he has come to realise that the kuffar are waging a war against Islam?

Why does he defend the tawagheet rulers of al saud?If he can attack a brother who has his jeans rolled up in a gathering why cant he make it clear that the saudi rulers are guilty of kuffar.

If he has changed his position on those issues he needs to make it clear and he needs to openly say so.Also a public tawbah is needed from him for the evil he spread about Shaykh Umar Abdur Rahman,for which he also stated when questioned about it that he sticks by everything that he said in that abhorrent rant.

wasalam

Ps I am not speaking from hear say I have witnessed all that I have said about him.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Well speaking about jihaad in to detailed a manner could get one in trouble under the "gloification of terrorism" act I would assume. Don't expect everyone to say what we want to hear. Giving a khutbah in London or New York isn't the same as giving a khutbah in Gaza, Fallujah, or Peshawer. We should keep that in mind.

[waziri]

Yes ofcourse brother, if one can not speak the haq then let him remain silent.Why when he gives a lecture does he have to attack the leaders of Jihad in our times.

If he does not want to get into trouble then he should avoid speaking about sensitive matters instead of propagating the line of the saudi leadership.

[abu~Adil as somali]

akhi, walahi the expression stuck between a rock and a hard place comes into mind, if he speaks the haaq then he is arrested and proply kick out of the country and imprisoned under a man made up law, and his ilm, khutba's durus, and calling the people into tawheed is lost to us all, and if he stays silent the people call him sell out,working for the tawguut, and names that does not befit the man, so the best way is the middle way, know when to remin silent and know when to talk, avoid all the attention, and know your surroundings. if you get hold of his friday khutba's then akhi they all about jihad, and not about what shiek so an so says about it. but what is going on round the world, eid khutba, friday khutba's durus, every time u see him,its all about the sad affairs of the muslim ummah.

so akhi take it easy on the brother..jazakum allahu khairan..

[abu abdil-kareem]

...sp calling him a khariji, and on here he is called a murji...

and about 30 seconds walk from the masjid you have the SP headquaters printing our leaflets about how the mujahdeen and who ever supports them a fitna on the ummah and how abu usaama was refuted by rabee al madkhali...


From what I know there has been a split for some time now between the Jordanian scholars and there followers (if you know the UK then one of their main strong holds is Brixton Masjid south London) and Rabee' al-Madkhali and his Madakhilee follwing (with his followers residing in Lester and sp headquarters with Mr Khaariji Abu Khadeejah).

So if Abu Usaamah adh-Dhahabi is being called Khaariji by the Murji' boys at SP then this wouldn't surprise me and neither would it make me feel any more sympathatic towards Abu Usaamah.

But I will say that I pray Allah ta 'ala guides us all upon the Huqq!

[Logic lover]

In the light of what has been testified regarding Abu Usama, I take back what I have stated about him.

[Brother_Mujahid]

So if Abu Usaamah adh-Dhahabi is being called Khaariji by the Murji' boys at SP then this wouldn't surprise me and neither would it make me feel any more sympathatic towards Abu Usaamah.

If if there was a difference they wouldn't call him a "Kharij'ee", instead they would call him some other names. They call you "Kharij'ee" if you take about jihaad, Imaan being action, Sayyid Qutb, etc. They for example call scholars like Safar al-Hawali, Salmaan al-'Awdah, and 'Abdur-Rahmaan 'Abdul-Khaaliq "Khawaarij" for these reasons.

[Hakeem]

i think the real underlining issue here is has abu usama retracted his statements regarding sheikh Umar Abdur Rahman?

What his opinions are with reagrds to OBL and the J is also a determining factor.

InshaAllah if he has taken back his words we should leave it there and ask that Allah (SWT) accepts his repentance. If he has not taken back his words then we should ask why not?

InshAllah may Allah unite us upon the Haqq (Ameen)

[Logic lover]

Well! this is not about personality. As long as he understands the concept of Jihad and made general statements retracting his past positions, I think we should leave it as that.

Allah knows best.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Well! this is not about personality. As long as he understands the concept of Jihad and made general statements retracting his past positions, I think we should leave it as that.

Allah knows best.

Exactly akhee.

[Shaghuri]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5621979422472502457

[Hakeem]

The questions that i posed were not concerned with the abu usama's opinion of these indinividuals personality but rather with regards to what they stand for.

For example why refer to Sheikh Umar Abdur Rahman as a Khawrarij?this clearly indicates that he believes in the legitimacy of these taghoot rulers;

why attack one of the leader of J and the j of toady?this shows that he dosnt agree with the J movement of today. also having listened to the audio provided by brother Shaghuri it seems that abu usama has not retracted his statement with regards to this point.

so again the questions were not posed for abu usama's view on these exact personalities, but rather his views for what these personalities stand for.

However in the light of the despatches documentry i think that we should be united in addressing the cureent problems that we are and will be facing. For clearly the steps that r being taken r to outmanouvre the Muslims in the UK and to discredit the reputable Duats and organisations of the UK and also to change and drive political and public opinion towards are specific direction.

and Allah (SWT) knows best.

[Abu Harun]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5621979422472502457
Jazzaak Allaahu gairan. Strong clarification, if it just could be broadcast on national television...

[Logic lover]

I must state, after watchhing the rebuttal video as linked above - Abu Usama's position on rulership and jihad is not clear, to say the least.

[waziri]

He (abu Usama)refered to those who call to jihad(shout about jihad in his words)as the biggest cowards.He the one who made a tape attacking an old blind alim who had just been imprisoned by the enemys of Islam for nothing more than being a believer.

His position is that now is not the time for jihad but when the saudi rulers call for jihad then he will say now is the time for jihad.he talks about the muslims being in the mekan period with regards to jihad,so maybe he thinks the muslims of Iraq, Afghanistan,sheeshan,Kasmir and elsewhere should lay down their weapons and give in to the kuffar and maybe try giving dawah to the kuffar armys.

He is just a agent of the saudi apostate rulers weather he knows it or not.

[Logic lover]

It may be that he is following Sheikh Albani's position on 'Defensive Jihad': ''There is no defensive Jihad without the Khilafa''.

But, it may also be that he is not following Sheikh Albani's position on 'Offensive Jihad': ''Offensive Jihad may be carried out by a group of Muslims (no Amir of a state or Khilafa needed)''.

Please read carefully.

Allah knows best.

[Abu Hafsa]

full video for those who missed it or want to watch it

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2668560761490749816&q=undercover+mosque

[Abdullah al-Shishani]

full video for those who missed it or want to watch it

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2668560761490749816&q=undercover+mosque

MashaAllah, I should say that alhamdulillah, a word of truth is still spoken in the UK. You wouldn't hear even that much in many places. The kuffar talk a lot about democracy and human rights, but in reality we see that it is the kuffar around the world that are murdering innocent muslims, it is them who are occupying whole countries, trying to impose their religion ("democracy") on them, while claiming to be almost angels. It is them who have used nuclear bombs on peaceful civilians, it is them who have bombed millions of others in places like Dresden, vietnam, afganistan, iraq, sheeshan, bosnia. It is the kuffar who have brought the world to the brink of a nuclear war, due to their intolerance. Their talk is very different to their deeds. Those muslims who live among kuffar, dream to have the position of the zimmi who lived during the times of the righteous khulafa, outside of jazeera, for they had a choice to be judged by their laws and much more that muslims dont have today in kafir countires.

Islam is not a religion of hypocracy, we say what we believe. Any party in the uk or other places, wants to be dominant anyway.

As to jihad, today, in its totality, it is defensive. And even among the kuffar, those who defend their land were always considered as heroes. So why the difference? Why were there no terror attacks just a few decades ago? Why wasn't islamism an issue then? Maybe the kuffar should stop occupying muslim countries and stop being intolerant to sharia, by supporting anti-islamic elements from among munafiqeen? This is very simple, this is not rocket science, but it seems these people can not comprehend this. The aya comes to mind:

002.120 Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.

Instead of addressing the real reasons for muslim anger, these kuffar are similar, as Shaykh Azzam (r) said, to people who have slain a sheep and are unhappy that its blood had spattered on their clothes.

[SAINT GEORGE OF ARABIA]

subhanallah!!!!

is this the same abu usama? is he still a madkhalee?
or they sacked him.....
can anyone clarify his position please..... he doesnt sound like a talafi

[Logic lover]

Brother, it appears from his rebuttal (the link is o this thread) that he considers the 'Jihadis' to be cowards.

It appears that he is waiting for the call of Jihad by the Islamic state (which of course does not exist now in practice). It seems that in his understanding there is no Jihad as it stands now, which is contrary to what the Rasulullah, peace be upon him had stated (that a group of his Ummah will always fight for the truth).

It seems that he has fallen out with the Madhkhalia for some of his remarks, which I am not able to specify for certainty.

Allah knows best.

[SAINT GEORGE OF ARABIA]

i think it's a trick...... especially that voice is not bilal philips
and abu usama believe in jihad?

[SAINT GEORGE OF ARABIA]

Brother, it appears from his rebuttal (the link is o this thread) that he considers the 'Jihadis' to be cowards.

It appears that he is waiting for the call of Jihad by the Islamic state (which of course does not exist now in practice). It seems that in his understanding there is no Jihad as it stands now, which is contrary to what the Rasulullah, peace be upon him had stated (that a group of his Ummah will always fight for the truth).

It seems that he has fallen out with the Madhkhalia for some of his remarks, which I am not able to specify for certainty.

Allah knows best.
barakallahu feek ya akhi

channel 4 also selected stuffs that will vilify islam.

[Brother_Mujahid]

I don't think we should openly attack people like Abu Usamah adh-Dhabahi in the public like this, as it only plays into the plot of the enemies of Islaam. Does the man have mistakes? Of course, but we should present a united front among the Muslims in the face of this Islamophobic government and media onslaught. We should publicly support those Muslims being viciously attacked by the media (since the things they are being attacked for are Islamic issues) such as Abu Usamah, Shaykh Taj ad-Din al-Hilaali, and others like this. As for their mistakes, we should advise them in private. Believe me brothers, it only plays into the agenda of the disbelievers to sit around and openly attack other Muslims who are already under media\government assault.

[AbuSulaiman]

assalaamu alaikum

Are you lot thick or what? Instead of addressing the main issue, the public perception of Islam and Muslims in this country - which transcends the importance of any one or group of individuals, you lot are bickering about various people's position on jihad, rulership and whether they follow Madkhali.

Wake up boys, when the British public look at you in the streets they're not going to ask you your position on Madkhali before they decide whether to dislike you or not. For them you and Abu Usama are the same thing.

[Abdullah al-Shishani]

This is their tolerance, this is their democracy, this is their rights of women, this is our humiliation:


5 More Soldiers Charged in Iraq Rape Case
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2171860


Abuse, Torture and Rape Reported at Unlisted U.S.-run Prisons in Iraq
http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/1029

Torture and Rape Rampant in Iraq Prisons
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/croke.php?articleid=3645

Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prisoner_abuse

Rape and death in Chechnya
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3184161.stm


MASS RAPE IN BOSNIA:
20,000 WOMEN, MOSTLY MUSLIMS, HAVE BEEN ABUSED BY SERB SOLDIERS
http://www.peacewomen.org/news/BosniaHerzegovina/newsarchive/massrape.html


A former Bosnian Serb policeman has pleaded guilty to raping and torturing Bosnian Muslim women during the war in the former Yugoslavia.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6270601.stm


A Dossier on Civilian Victims
of United States' Aerial Bombing of Afghanistan:
A Comprehensive Accounting

"What causes the documented high level of civilian casualties -- 3,767 [thru December 6, 2001] civilian deaths in eight and a half weeks -- in the U.S. air war upon Afghanistan? The explanation is the apparent willingness of U.S. military strategists to fire missiles into and drop bombs upon, heavily populated areas of Afghanistan."

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/civiDeaths.html

[Abu_Zahid]

A brother told me that Dispatches are bringing another similar documentary in a couple of weeks, this time aimed at publisher Darussalam.

Does anyone have any info about this?

The whole dispatches program just seemed so mixed up, they really weren't leaving anyone untouched.

One thing I didn't fully understand, thruout the program they were constantly talking about how the Saudi regime is pumping out all these militant preachers to the west...but in reality the real jihadis are anti saudi regime! So why was there such a focus on attacking the saudi regime n making out that they want this kind of militancy to be spread around the world?

was this the result of poor research or a poor level of understanding on the part of channel 4?

what do the brothers think?

Like some of the brothers have pointed out, I think that this was just an all-out attack on muslims and they are just aiming to make the British public feel that every single muslim is an extremist and someone to be feared...unless he's from the Sufi Muslim Council.

[Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri]

MI5ufies. Qatalahumullah.

[Abdullah al-Shishani]

A brother told me that Dispatches are bringing another similar documentary in a couple of weeks, this time aimed at publisher Darussalam.

Does anyone have any info about this?

The whole dispatches program just seemed so mixed up, they really weren't leaving anyone untouched.

One thing I didn't fully understand, thruout the program they were constantly talking about how the Saudi regime is pumping out all these militant preachers to the west...but in reality the real jihadis are anti saudi regime! So why was there such a focus on attacking the saudi regime n making out that they want this kind of militancy to be spread around the world?

was this the result of poor research or a poor level of understanding on the part of channel 4?

what do the brothers think?

Like some of the brothers have pointed out, I think that this was just an all-out attack on muslims and they are just aiming to make the British public feel that every single muslim is an extremist and someone to be feared...unless he's from the Sufi Muslim Council.


If you read the RAND corporation reports, which were published a few years ago, you will understand their tactics.

[Abdullah al-Shishani]

The US defence department has sent Congress the draft of a new manual for trying detainees at Guantanamo Bay.

The new rules would allow terror suspects to be imprisoned on the basis of hearsay or coerced testimony - if a judge ruled the evidence credible.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6276989.stm

This is the peak of democracy. Reminds me of Stalin's times. From another angle this is a sign of their demise, for Allah likes not the unjust, be they muslim or kuffar.

[AbuQaqa]

In relation to those that just shout it.. we have them here its invouge to shout about Jihad but not with the doing.. the ones for the doing are gone and doing.
As for the brother not saying there Jihad in the various countries listed... there is nothing in speech from him affirming this so this is speculation, those that negate Jihad have no qualms about saying it not there and here .. So unless you can bring proof of this then maybe you should be careful what you say.

As for is he this or that .. take a step back why are they targetting him and the other bros ? is it because they are pumping the dawah of tawheed and bringing people back to the basics and actually being productive in it.

Take Khalid Yasin that bro is the bomb when it comes to bringing the kuffar to islam, so now this for him.

Our brother Shiek Fiez who is productive in austrailia to the extent he has 4000 people repsonsive to his dawah and it all pure salafee dawah, and now they wanna charge the man there with a 7 yr sentence due to the fallout from this program.

So it has been become so easy for them to split us like this.. and we are allowing it ... yes we have differences and we do have a few that are extreme .. but generally across the board theres very little in it.
The differences we can deal with at a scholarly level with proofs rather than assuming or insinuating various things here on the forums.

[Abdullah al-Shishani]

We have to love kuffar who do or support those who do this?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjFYvGb2G_4&eurl=

Anyone who says there is no Jihad in the world after this, has problems with his head.

[AbuQaqa]

And who does say there is no Jihad out there ?
I mean on the whole planet specifically ?

[Abu_Zahid]

Shaykh Yasir Qadhi gave a response on Islam Channel to the documentary..

alhamdulillah its a wise msg, everyone shud def take the time to watch it inshaAllah, only 15 mins...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcOKzcPQkGY

[waziri]

Asalamualaykum,

I agree with Yasir Qadhi,he gave the example of the 3 bulls which is very relevant to what is happening to the muslims at the moment.
Yasir qadhi has spoken out against the propaganda and has stated that regardless of what our theological beliefs are we as muslims need to unite and defend our brothers,and yes I agree but my point is that we should be united even when it is those muslims who we may not agree with in certain issues that are attacked by the media.

Rcently ht have come in for alot of stick by the kuffar propaganda machine yet we did not see Yasir Qadhi making such statements of unity and defending muslims regardless of their methodology or aqeeda,it seems to me now that his own back door is being kicked in that he has decided to urge all muslims to stand up and speak out against kuffar propaganda.Why did he not make such statements when other muslim groups were being attacked?

We need consistancy in such matters,and we need to practice what we preach,and yes we need to unite and act against the kuffar media when muslims are being lied against and it doesnt matter weather its some group that we disagree with or not.

wasalam

[Brother_Mujahid]

Dr. Bilal Philips has answered the charges against him made in the Dispatch program: http://www.bilalphilips.com/

[ibnYaseen]

jazak Allah for posting Bilal Philips response.

Has Shaykh Suhaib Hassan published a response as of yet?

[Suhaib Jobst]

Dr. Bilal Philips has answered the charges against him made in the Dispatch program

Bilal Philips was a courageous da'ee and still has excellent statements, but unfortunately he has come under the influence of the Neo-Murji'ah on the issue of Haakimiyyah, may Allah (Subhanahu wa-Ta'ala) guide him and rectify his condition:
http://muntadaa.aswj.net//index.php?showtopic=1706

Speaking of al-Ikhwaan Muslimoon he says:

Quote:
Many of them entered a dangerous realm, declaring the Muslim rulers disbelievers, due to the fact that they did not rule according to what Allaah revealed, and many others even called for revolt against the rulers, an action strictly prohibited by the Prophet (s).

Quote:
New offshoots from the Ikhwaan appeared under the names of Takfeer wal-Hijrah, Jamaa’atul-Jihaad, and al-Jamaa’ah al-Islaamiyyah with members prepared to seize power immediately. In these groups a philosophy of violence evolved which was justified by declaring all Muslim rulers to be disbelievers as well as all those who worked in state institutions… These failures are a result of their lack of focus on ‘aqeedah and their adopting a methodology which contradicts that of the Prophet (s) and his companions.

Quote:
Regarding the statement in my book The Fundamentals of Tawheed (written some 18 years ago and first published 10 years ago), which implies that people should speak out against the rulers who rule by other than the Sharee’ah, as well as another (which was not pointed out to me by the brothers but by my wife) in Tafseer Soorah al-Hujuraat (written more than twenty-one years ago), which encourages plotting against Muslim governments not implementing Sharee’ah, I have abandoned such false beliefs long ago and unfortunately, was not aware that some remained in my old books. I openly retract those statements, and had someone bothered to inform me of them and advise me, I would have changed them immediately. They will be changed with the next publications inshaa’Allaah, and I will further retract these statements on my web page and state the correct view regarding the rulers, inshaa’Allaah.

Quote:
Furthermore, in my meeting with Shaykh ‘Alee Hasan and Shaykh Saleem, some brothers tried to bring to them an issue in one of my old books, and Shaykh ‘Alee told them that they cannot take a person’s ‘aqeedah from his old books, instead it should be taken from his recent books. So the brothers should not merely take a statement written in my oldest books and ignore all my explicit statements in my recent lectures and books wherein I speak out in no uncertain terms against making takfeer of Muslim rulers and others, speak out against revolt against rulers and all the takfeeree movements. In my book, Usool at-Tafseer, I spoke about the importance of accepting the Sahaabah’s understanding of the Qur’aan, and as one of my examples, I quoted the verse, “And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed is a kaafir.” Then followed it by Ibn ‘Abbaas’ statement, “It is a form of kufr less than real kufr.” Then I put in my footnote that the position of scholars is that when the ruler believes that man-made laws are better than or as good as the Sharee’ah, or that it is permissible to rule by them, then is a kaafir. Whereas if he applies man-made laws while believing that it is sinful to do so, then he is a major sinner but does not leave the fold of Islaam. I ended the footnote asking the reader to refer to at-Tah-theer min Fitnah at-Takfeer by Shaykh al-Albaanee, who, as I wrote, “provides copious documentation from the statements of classical and modern salafee scholars to support his position.” (p. 38) In my book Tafseer Soorah al-Mulk, which is complete and on the way to being published inshaa’Allaah, I included the entire section on the categories of kufr from Shaykh Khaalid al-‘Anbaree’s book The Fundamentals of Takfeer. And I again made clear statements there opposing takfeer and revolt against the rulers. And my position is and has been that of Shaykh al-Albaanee’s and the other scholars, the position of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa‘ah: that one cannot claim someone to be a kaafir due to a major sin he has committed, and that we cannot make takfeer on Muslim rulers if they do not rule by Sharee‘ah, for the ruler’s aqeedah as to whether or not it is permissible for him to rule by man-made laws or whether or not man-made laws are better, is something which only he and Allaah know the reality of. So we take him to be a Muslim, and the Prophet (pbuh) clearly forbade revolt against Muslim rulers in many ahaadeeth, and ordered that they be obeyed in other than disobedience to Allaah. Furthermore, Muslims should not publicly and openly speak out against the Muslim rulers and governments as it only creates fitnah and incites the masses of Muslims to act upon emotion and ignorance by creating chaos or plotting revolt against rulers. In addition, the only way for the Muslims to attain their honor and glory once again, and reach the level wherein the Muslim world can rule totally according to Sharee’ah, free of all forms of shirk, bid’ah, or oppression, is, as Shaykh al-Albaane spent his life teaching, by tasfiyah and tarbiyah. That is, that the deen be purified from all forms of shirk, bid’ah, hizbiyyah, blind-following, the use of inauthentic hadeeths, etc., and it be understood and practiced in the pristine form it was revealed in, according to the understanding of the righteous salaf, the Sahaabah primarily and the next two generations. Their way, in all affairs (aqeedah, methodology, fiqh, manners, understanding, etc.) is superior to all those who came after them. Then we must educate ourselves, families, then everyone else upon this purified religion.

These statements were taken from the article "Reply To Critcs" by Dr. Bilaal Philips which demonstrate his leaning toward the Murjee'ah of our era, may Allaah guide him to what is correct. Ameen.

This is taken from his website

[Brother_Mujahid]

Yes, unfortunately Dr. Bilaal Philips has been listening to the wrong people. Khaalid al-'Anbaari has been exposed as a liar and being from the extreme Murjee'ah by the scholars. His extremist irj'aa has been refuted by scholars like ash-Shaykh al-Allamaa Hamoud bin al-'Uqlaa (raheemahullaah). As for the likes of 'Ali al-Halabi, well the ulemaa have warned against him and exposed his radical irj'aa. Why Dr. Bilaal Philips takes knowledge on the issue of Imaan from Khaalid al-'Anbaari, Saleem al-Hilaali, and 'Ali al-Halabi is beyond me. He should go consult Shaykh Safar al-Hawali or other scholars knowledgable in this affair.

http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/jamee_fatwa.htm

http://www.islamicawakening.com/viewarticle.php?articleID=27

http://salafiyyah-jadeedah.tripod.com/Lies_of_Anbaree.htm

http://salafiyyah-jadeedah.tripod.com/Fatwa_Halabi.htm

[gag order]

to summarize the responses thus far:

bilal phillips http://www.bilalphilips.com/

yasir qadi http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-7715763265765648367

abu usamah http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5621979422472502457

as abu sulaiman and brother mujahid pointed out whatever disagreements we have with these individuals should be set aside for now since they are bieng attacked over issues we all agree upon.

similarly, HT were also bieng scrutinized unfairly not for what we disagree on but for the sentiments we all share.

but i hope that this is not an excersise in 'damage control' since now the spotlight is on them as mentioned by another bro earlier.

we are slow to come to each others defence.

[Abu Ilyas]

jazak Allah for posting Bilal Philips response.

Has Shaykh Suhaib Hassan published a response as of yet?

Here is something about that: http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/whereilive/walthamforest/display.var.1146248.0.mosque_disputes_claim.php

[Suhaib Jobst]

By the way, in case someone accuses me of being ghulool on this issue, I still listen to the lectures and read the books of Bilal Philips, which I find very beneficial and I still rate him one of the best Islamic speakers. I just don't take from him when it comes to Iman and related issues.

[Abu_Zahid]

Ppl like Bilal Philips put forward their argument for why the rulers are not kaafir for ruling by other than the shariah..and thus they are still muslim etc..

but, putting aside the fact that they dont rule by what Allah revealed, what about their open support for the kuffaar and their killing/imprisoning muslims just because they are fighting against kuffaar. Does doing that make one kaafir too? (I am not very knowledgable but from what i read I was under the understanding that assisting the kuffaar against the muslims makes u a murtad).

My question is the above, and also, if the above IS the case (i.e. assisting kufs against muslims DOES make u kaafir) do the shaykhs like Bilal Philips etc. have a rebuttal argument against this point too?

JazaakAllah khair

[Abdullah al-Shishani]

Ppl like Bilal Philips put forward their argument for why the rulers are not kaafir for ruling by other than the shariah..and thus they are still muslim etc..

but, putting aside the fact that they dont rule by what Allah revealed, what about their open support for the kuffaar and their killing/imprisoning muslims just because they are fighting against kuffaar. Does doing that make one kaafir too? (I am not very knowledgable but from what i read I was under the understanding that assisting the kuffaar against the muslims makes u a murtad).

My question is the above, and also, if the above IS the case (i.e. assisting kufs against muslims DOES make u kaafir) do the shaykhs like Bilal Philips etc. have a rebuttal argument against this point too?

JazaakAllah khair

Apparently they do... They say that if one helps them against muslims to make some money for example, then he is just a sinner. And if he helps them because he loves kufr, only then he becomes a murtad. This strange argument is what they now propagate, some of these ulama of sultan.

you can see more on their arguments and counter arguments here: http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=15482&postcount=122

[knowrass]

Ppl like Bilal Philips put forward their argument for why the rulers are not kaafir for ruling by other than the shariah..and thus they are still muslim etc..

but, putting aside the fact that they dont rule by what Allah revealed, what about their open support for the kuffaar and their killing/imprisoning muslims just because they are fighting against kuffaar. Does doing that make one kaafir too? (I am not very knowledgable but from what i read I was under the understanding that assisting the kuffaar against the muslims makes u a murtad).

My question is the above, and also, if the above IS the case (i.e. assisting kufs against muslims DOES make u kaafir) do the shaykhs like Bilal Philips etc. have a rebuttal argument against this point too?

JazaakAllah khair

please read this thread carefully: http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=2484

[waziri]

The argument of those who defend the apostate rulers with regard to assisting the kuffar is very lame,ie if one has love for kuffr and hatred for muslims one would become murtad without lifting a finger to assist the kuffar,the mere fact of having such love of kuffr and hatred of Islam is enough.

I wonder what their position would be on the one who desacrates the mushaf or prostrates to an idol for some worldly reason?

[Suhaib Jobst]

I wonder what their position would be on the one who desacrates the mushaf or prostrates to an idol for some worldly reason?

The people of Irjaa would make all sorts of excuses for that person, claiming they were either ignorant or that it was "kufr doona kufr", so long as they did not internalize the kufr in their heart.

[sword_of_islam]

abu usumah is an enemy of j there is no doubt about that people do not be fooled by the sweet speech of satan no matter how they try to beautify it, abu usumah has called sh abdur rehman a khariji and has not taken his words back against the shiekh he also protects the taghoot rulers of saudi sheikh ul islam ibn taymiyah has clearly stated the protectors of taghoot are also to be fought against and are enemies of the deen of ALLAH j will never stop till the day of judgement n whom so ever wishes to deny it may ALLAH deny them a place in paradise

how can any one feel sorry for this house nigxxx a man who slanders the warriors n sheikhs of islam people wake n realise that evil comes in many forms there is no difference between spubs n the abu usumah they r blind followers of the scholars of suadi who alligned themselves with taghoot

[sword_of_islam]

By the imprisoned Shaykh, the Mujāhid Shaykh ‘Alī ibn Khudhayr Al-Khudhayr

(May Allāh hasten his release from the prisons of the Tāwaghit) from at-Tibyān Publications

Question

“There is a certain individual who defends (in arguments) the Tawāghīt day and night, and the Hujjah (evidence) has been established upon him dozens of times – yet he makes excuses for the actions of the Tawāghīt. So what is the ruling regarding such an individual?”

Shaykh ‘Alī Al-Khudhayr (may Allāh hasten his release) answered:

If these Tawāghīt are kuffār (in his eyes, meaning) that their kufr has been established – and he views them as kuffār – and then yet he defends them: Then he is a kāfir just like them. As Allāh (Most High) has said:

“And those who disbelieve are allies to one another…” [Al-Anfāl: 73]

And because his action of defending them, is Tawallī (alliance) with them. And Allāh has said:

“And thus We do make the Thālimīn (polytheists and wrong*doers) Awliyā’ (supporters and helpers) one to another, because of that which they used to earn.” [Al-An’ām: 129]

And He (Most High) has also said:

“Verily, the Thālimīn (polytheists and wrong*doers) Awliyā’ (supporters and helpers) one to another, but Allāh is the Walī (Helper, Protector) of the Muttaqīn.”[Al-Jāthiyah: 19]

But on the other hand: If he thinks that the rulers are upon Islām, or reality of their situation is in doubt – Then as long as you continue to give him your sincere advice and admonishment, then you have fulfilled your obligations.

But, if he thinks they are not upon kufr, but he is aware of their oppression and betrayal, and yet argues in their defense – then for him is the Statement of Allāh (Most High):

“And argue not on behalf of those who deceive themselves.” [An-Nisā’: 107]

And:

“So be not a pleader for the treacherous.” [An-Nisā’: 105]

And:

“My Lord! For that with which You have favoured me, I will never more be a helper for the Mujrimūn (criminals,polytheists, sinners, etc.)!” [Al-Qasas: 17]

On the Principle:
Whoever does not do takfeer of the disbeliever, is a disbeliever

by Shaykh Naasir bin Hamad al-Fahd
(may Allah hasten his release from the prisons of the Tawagheet)


FOLLOW THE ULEMA OF AHLUS SUNNA NOT OUR WHIMS N DESIRES

[Umm]

Does any one have Faisal's infamous talk: The Devil's Deception of the 21st Century House Niggers? When it came out, I was a staunch SP, so never heard it.

[Abuz Zubair]

You - YOU - were a staunch SP?!

[Umm]

Yes, I was, until I married a "surooree" a decade ago. That's why I used to be afraid to meet anyone who was a takfeeri - in case I got deviated heh. Watching "In the Hearts of Green Birds" and hearing the tape was a turning point for me alhamdulillah.

[abu~Adil as somali]

insha~allah ill post the link where u could find the file when i get bk home...i havnt heard it myself but i downloaded it time ago..after the The Devil's Deception of the saudi salafi and the signs of the evil schoaler i didnt want to hear no more..i hated them guys for wht they hv been doing to the ummah..i think i mite turn it on tonight listen to it..

[baghdad sniper]

insha~allah ill post the link where u could find the file when i get bk home...i havnt heard it myself but i downloaded it time ago..after the The Devil's Deception of the saudi salafi and the signs of the evil schoaler i didnt want to hear no more..i hated them guys for wht they hv been doing to the ummah..i think i mite turn it on tonight listen to it..

Although I have love for brother shaykh Faisal I must emphasize that in the Devil's Deception of the Saudi Salafi he goes too far in his description of them, he equates them with the followers of the Taaghout and practically calls them Kuffaar.

Like I said, I have alot of love for the brother however his Takfeeri attitude produced the Devil's Deception part II where Shaykh Abu Qataadah refutes his Takfeer of the Saudi Salafi/Madkhali, Shaykh Abu Qataadah accused him of having traits of the Khawarij (Traits, not that he said he is upon the Minhaj of the Khawaarij).

I write this only as a warning so please do feel that I am attacking his person; and if one would like a brief history of shaykh Faisal's development then one should read "Beware of Takfeer" by Abu Hamzah where a sort of memoir has been written from shaykh Faisal's entry into the UK around 1991 and on wards.

Insha'Allah my post is understood as Naseehah and nothing else.

[Umm]

Jazakullah khairan baghdad sniper. Insha'Allah, I will bear that in mind. It's just curiousity that makes me want to hear it.

http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2005/04/26/the_devils_deception_of_shaikh

I have just read that article, and it kinda cooled my curiosity, so insha'Allah abu~Adil as somali, don't worry about posting it insha'Allah. It is probably better for me to use my time more constructively.

[Abd al-Haqq Marshall]

The Murji'ah like to say: "there is no such thing as jihad without an Ameer."

A more accurate statement would be: "there is no such thing as khawarj unless its against the Ameer."

[Suhaib Jobst]

Well put! Those whom the government lackeys consider "Khawarij" are the exact opposite....The Khawarij made takfeer of the Sahabah, the Taliban and Shaykh Abu Mus'ab (rahimahullah) fought against the Rawafid Shi'ites who curse the Sahabah and Ummahat-Mu'mineen; the Khawarij made khurooj against the legitimate Muslim ruler, wallahi I call upon all Salafiyyah Jadeedah to demonstrate why the label of Kufr is prohibited from the current rulers; where can one find in the words of Bin Laden, Zawahiri, and the rest of the alleged "Khawarij" any unrestricted takfeer of the Muslim masses, why in their appeals do they address them as Muslims, if indeed they are "Khawarij"?; etc..

As for the issue you mentioned, then there is just so much evidence to refute them, from the Qur'an, Sunnah, and Ijma of the Salaf. But let this suffice, an excerpt from Abdullah Azzam Shaheed's Defence of the Muslim Lands (Chapter 4), insha'Allah:

Second Question
Can we fight jihad while we haven't an Amir?

Yes we fight, and we haven't an Amir. None has said that the absence of a community of Muslims under an Amir cancels the Fard of jihad. In fact we have seen Muslims at the time of the Crusades and during the Tar-tar invasions fighting with different Amir's. In Halab (in Syria) there was an Amir, in Damascus there was an Amir, and in Egypt there was more than one Amir. Some of these even asked help from Christians against their brother Amir, as what happened when Shawar asked help from Christians against another Amir, Dar Gham, in Egypt.

Not one of the scholars has said that such a situation and such corruption cancels the obligation of jihad for the DEFENCE of the Muslim lands. On the contrary it multiplies their duty .The same thing happened in Andalusia, as the poets said:

"They were divided into sects, each in their places, Each place an Amir and its pulpit"

And another wrote:

"That which made me despair of Andalusia, were the King's titles,
Great titles of which they were not worthy,
Like the cat who mimics the lion by puffmg himself up"

Not one of the scholars has said that there is no jihad under these conditions, in fact, the scholars were themselves in the front lines of Andalusia.

The battle may be void of a legitimate commander appointed by the Amir. As it was on the Day of Mu'tah. Khalid Bin Walid stood up and raised the flag, that by him, Allah saved the Muslim army. And, for this he was commended by the Prophet (saw).

Maybe the Imam or the Amir al Mu'mineen is not present, this does not annul the obligation of fighting and the DEFENCE of the Muslim lands. We do not wait for the Caliphate to be restored. Because, the Caliphate does not return through abstract theories, amassed knowledge and studying. Rather, jihad is the right way to reform the divided authorities to the ultimate authority of the Caliphate.

The mujahideen choose their Amir for jihad from amongst themselves. He organises them and unifies their efforts and makes the strong support the weak. In a sahih hadith from Uqbah Bin Amar, who was amongst the to-be-mentioned party, said: "The Prophet (saw) sent out a party and he chose from amongst us a swordsman (leader). When we returned I said: I have not seen the like of when the Prophet (saw) blamed us. The Prophet (saw) said: Are you unable that if I appoint a man and he fails to apply my order to replace him with one who applies my order?"

The Messenger of Allah (saw) encouraged them to change the Amir of the party even if he was given the flag by the noble hand of the Prophet himself. So how is it if there is no Amir from the beginning? Of the most critical situations requiring an Amir is that of warti

Ibn Qadama said in AI Mughni 8/253: "The absence of an Imam does not postpone the jihad because much is lost in its postponement".

If the people choose an Amir, he must be obeyed. As mentioned in Fath al Ali al Malik 1/253.

The Sheikh Miyara stated that if there is an absence of an Amir, and the people are agreed to appoint a great one in this time, to pave their ways, to make the strong support the weak, and he exerts his effort to achieve this to the best of his ability , it is evident that to stand against him is not permitted. Who opposes him seeking to create sedition, disobeys Islam and disrupts the Jamat. In sahih Muslim: "Different evils will make their appearance in the near future. Anyone who tries to disrupt the affairs of this Ummah while they are united you should strike him with the sword, whoever he be".