Imam Abu Sulaiman al-Khattabi 's (rahimahu Allah) retraction

[Um Abdullah M.]

Assalamu alaykum

Imam Abu Sulaiman al-Khattabi (rahimahu Allah), whom al Imam al-Bayhaqi quoted quite often in his book (al Asma was-sifat - the Names and attributes), retracted from his previous beliefs in regards to Allah's attributes.

The evidance for that is what is in his books (al-ghunia 'an al-Kalam wa-Ahleh), which was from his last works.


Imam Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali rahimahu Allah said in his sharh of sahih al-Bukhari (Fath al-Bari):
وكذلك ذكره الخطابي في رسالته في - الغنية عن الكلام وأهله - .
وهذا يدل على أن ما يؤخذ من كلامه في كثير من كتبه مما يخالف ذلك ويوافق طريقة المتكلمين فقد رجع عنه ، فإن نفي كثير من الصفات إنما هو مبني على ثبوت هذه الطريقة .
-and al-khattabi also mentioned it in his letter- alGhunya 'an alKalam wa Ahleh
and this proves that what is taken against him from a lot of his sayings in his books that go against that and agree with the way of the mutakalimeen, he has retracted from, (someone translate the rest)


and I think his book can be found online (in Arabic), insha Allah I will search for it later, and if I find it I will post its link here insha Allah.

[Abu_Abdallah]

http://www.siratemustaqeem.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3078&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=alkhattabi

The book al-Ghunya of Imam al-Khattabi is lost, as far as I know. The author of Manhaj Imam al-Khattabi fi'l-'Aqidah could not find a MS for it. The longest quotes of this lost book can be found with Abu Muzaffar al-Sam'ani in his al-Intisar li Ahl al-Hadith, Ibn Taymiyyah in Fatwa al-Hamawiyyah (and elsewhere) and with Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti in his refutation of the Ahl al-Kalam (see the link).

[Um Abdullah M.]

this is what I found:
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3483

maybe it is what ur talking about.

most important thing is that his book was known by the scholars who proceeded us and his retraction is confirmed through it.

[Abu_Abdallah]

this is what I found:
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3483

maybe it is what ur talking about.

most important thing is that his book was known by the scholars who proceeded us and his retraction is confirmed through it.

Jazakullah! I have read that thread before. The text of the Ghunya found in it is the same as that of al-Suyuti's Sawn al-Mantiq, referred to in the link and found in that thread.

The MS of al-Suyuti's Sawn is from Cairo, I believe Dar Kutub al-Misriyyah. It has been published by a well-known editor (I believe 'Ali Sami al-Nashshâr who edited many works, mat Allah have mercy upon him). The referred too MS in the thread is I think the same as that of al-Suyuti. The knowledgeable students of 'Ilm mentioned that on the Multaqa. I have read the book Manhaj Imam al-Khattabi fi'l-'Aqidah and searched in vein for this book myself; indeed, I even visited in Morocco the biggest Khizanat of Arabic Islamic manuscripts in Rabat (there was a MS there of al-Khattabi entitled as: Sharh Asma Allah wa-Sifatih) to check it out (hoping that it would be the Ghunya - unfortunate: was the Sha'n al-Du'a, edited by al-Daqqaq in Beirut.)

The Ghunya is lost, unfortunate. But there are so many quotes from it as that thread shows (also from Dar' Ta'arrud al-'Aql wa'l-Naql etc.). I cant remember of a retreat by Abu Sulayman of anything; Insha'Allah I shall check it in the book about his creed. The reference to Fath al-Bari by Ibn Rajab, however, is an interesting one! I've never came across it (have seen the Fath, from internet).

wa-Salam.

[Abuz Zubair]

JazakumAllahu Khayran for this beneficial post...

Bro Sharif,

In my Turath CD ('aqida edition), I actually have al-ghunya by al-Khattabi, which is about 86 pages... any idea what this could be?

[Um Abdullah M.]

Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali rahimahu Allah mentioned in in "fath al-Bari"
Kitab as-Salat
باب
فضل السجود
in his sharh of hadith
(( هل تمارون في القمر ليلة البدر ، ليس دونه سحاب ؟ ))

[Abu_Abdallah]

JazakumAllahu Khayran for this beneficial post...

Bro Sharif,

In my Turath CD ('aqida edition), I actually have al-ghunya by al-Khattabi, which is about 86 pages... any idea what this could be?

Allahu A'lam brother. I've never seen all the textual passages of al-Ghunya 'an Ahl al-Kalam amount to 86 pages, so I can only exclaim:

Allahu Akbar!

Good to hear that! I hope that it adds more to what is already known from the few references I mentioned from Abu'l-Muzaffar al-Sam'ani, Ibn Taymiyyah and al-Suyuti Insha'Allah. SubhanAllah, al-Ghunya published? I hope however that it does provide more words of Imam al-Khattabi than what has been mentioned here in this link http://www.islammessage.com/booksww/book_text.php?pageNum_rs_book_text=223&totalRows_rs_book_text=224&bkid=1278 which spreads his known [cited] words from page 1 til page 79.

It seems that al-Suyuti, who is I believe the major source for this, cites the book in full - but that is not correct, as some inferred that without proof. The reason for that is that from 'Asamnâ Allah wa-iyyâk untill the end quotation in Sawn al-Mantiq, which is I believe identical to what is mentioned in the islammessage-link, is not known to be all of it; rather, Ibn Taymiyyah in al-Hamawiyyah mentions a crucial passage on the Sifât neglected by al-Suyuti and which is taken from the same book al-Ghunya.

So every publication of al-Ghunya, if there exist independent prints of it, based upon solely what al-Suyuti quoted en large in his Sawn al-Mantiq does not present the full book. And I have seen online 'books' of al-Ghunya, in word and pdf, and they seem not to present all that is known from Shaykh al-Islam's knowledge (and al-Dhahabi's, see below) of the text. Wa-Allahu A'lam.

I have checked yesterday evening some of the books of later 'Ulama concerning this issue. I have also read some time ago articles by orientalists about al-Khattabi, incl. his lost books. These orientalists mentioned that the Ghunya is lost, except what Ibn Taymiyyah and al-Suyuti mentioned. But before, I checked again the book:

Imam al-Khattabi wa-manhajuh fi'l-'aqîdah, authored by Abi Abd al-Rahman al-Hasan b. 'Abd al-Rahman al-'Alawi, with a Introductionary approval by the late Shaykh and Muhaddith Hammad al-Ansari, rahimahullah.

The author of the thesis, which is an excellent one, does not explicitly say that its is mafqûd. However, he certainly implies that in the beginning part of his thesis since he mentions all his books - ascribed to him - and clearly indicates which of them has been published (even some several times).

He says nothing about al-Ghunya except that Shaykh al-Islam quoted from it in Fatawa al-Hamawiyyah. In other footnotes when he cites al-Khattabi he refers the reader to the well-known references, such as: Dar' al-Ta'arrud, al-Hamawiyyah and Sawn al-Mantiq. In one of these references he mentions even his observation, "ma'a ikhtilâf yasîr jiddan fi ba'di'l-alfâz", when referring to the al-Khattabi quote to show sources of his: Dar and the Sawn.

An again - he never says that the book is published or lost explicitly. The edition I have of this thesis is from 1997.

I took the last and best edition of al-'Uluww also, that is: the two big volumes of the editor, Shaykh Abdallah b. Salih al-Barrâk. In volume 2 p.1294 we know that al-Dhahabi quoted al-Khattabi from his al-Ghunya - and it is this quote that is absent in the Sawn, but cited by Shaykh al-Islam and therefore it seems to be proof that Sawn's long citation is not the full book - about the Sifat. The editor, hafizahullah, says about it:

"The Book al-Ghunya of the Imam al-Khattabi - are from the lost books (min al-kutub al-mafqûdat). There can be found, however, citations in books of scholars. And the longest citation from this book is what al-Suyuti mentioned in his book Sawn al-Mantiq from p.61-101, and what Qawwâm al-Sunnah cited in al-Hujjat (1/371) and Ibn Taymiyyah in Dar' al-Ta'ârud with notes upon his speech (7/278) and in Naqd al-Ta'sis (1/251)." [end]

This edition was published two years after the book al-Khattabi's Manhaj in Creed: in 1999.

I then checked - what I saw before - again the citation from the book al-Hujjah fi Bayân al-Mahajjah wa-Sharh 'Aqidah Ahl al-Sunnah, another splendid book on Creed, by the Qawwam al-Sunnah referred to: who is Abu'l-Qasim al-Taymi al-Isfahani, the Shafi'ite Imam.

The Hujjah referred above is probably an earlier edition or publication; mine is also from 1999, and the long quote can be found in vol.2 from p.402 till 408.

Surprisingly, it started with: Qâla al-Khattabi, 'Asamnâ Allah wa-iyyâk.. just like al-Suyuti. The editor stated in the footnote that it is mentioned at the beginning of the quote the following:

"The biography of him preceded and the author extended in copying from al-Khattabi and he reached from his citation here 6 pages from the manuscript"

that is: from the manuscript of the Hujjah, expressing thereby his surprise I believe. At the end of the citation of al-Khattabi's al-Ghunya he simply expresses that here ends what he noted from the Imam. There is no reference to an publication of the book or existent of manuscripts, here, or elsewhere.

[I think al-Suyuti utilized the Ghunya through Qawwam al-Sunnah too, since some alfâz are so alike - wa-Allahu A'lam]

I'm not saying that the Ghunya has not been published: lâ adri. What you might know, I don't.

But you have excited me, so long the text you referred to in the Turath CD is not the same as what is already known and publsihed in books of others. I hope, and I pray to Allah for that, to find the work complete together with his other good books (such as the Shi'ar fi Usul al-Din, the Nasihah fi'l-I'tiqad etc. both quoted en large by Shaykh al-Islam and Ibn al-Subki respectively).

But what I know of Imam al-Khattabi - and I invested a lot of research the past two years into his heritage and this is a good oppurtunity to reward al-akh Abu Turab who made much of it possible, may Allah reward him immensly - is that this book is lost.

If possible, brother Abuz Zubair, could you inform me the beginning and end of the text you have of al-Ghunya?

Asmaa,

Thank you very much for that reference - I was already trying to locate it but could not find it (I started with K. al-Iman, the beginning, so it would took some time were it not for this post).

[Abuz Zubair]

Sorry to disappoint you dear bro, but it seems Turath guys messed up.

The book is titled al-Ghunya and the first page says al-Khattabi, but the second pages says this:

الاستعانة والاستغاثة

وبعد فإنه وصل إلى الحقير الجاني محمد بن علي الشوكاني غفر الله له ذنوبه وستر عن عيون الناس عيوبه سؤال

Turath only includes works that are already printed...

So I guess it is mafqud.

[Abu_Abdallah]

Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali rahimahu Allah mentioned in in "fath al-Bari"
Kitab as-Salat
باب
فضل السجود
in his sharh of hadith
(( هل تمارون في القمر ليلة البدر ، ليس دونه سحاب ؟ ))

Interesting small comparison between Ibn Rajab's Fath al-Bari and that of Ibn Hajar, may Allah have mercy on both of them.

http://www.ibnamin.com/fath_bari.htm

[Abdullah al-Shishani]

Some people say Shaykh Abdullah Azzam (r) was an ashari, is this true? I have no problem even if he was, for his efforts for the ummah are great in any case.

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

Some people say Shaykh Abdullah Azzam (r) was an ashari, is this true? I have no problem even if he was, for his efforts for the ummah are great in any case.

I dount he was, because he is on record as saying that he followed Ibn Taymiyyah in 'aqidah and an-Nawawi in fiqh.

[al-hanafi]

salam alaikum

Is everything found in al-ghunya in sawn al-mantiq of as-suyuti in line with the aqeeda of the contemporary salafis?

jazaakallah khairan