Neo con sufis

[waziri]

After waching last nights latest propaganda against Islam I thought Id try to find out more about the sufi muslim council and found this.

http://sufimuslimcouncil.blogspot.com/

Does anyone have anymore info about the other traitors that were speaking against Islam I think one was called dr taji or something.

[ahmad1981]

I dont know but another one was Abdul Hakeem Murad.

He spoke at Global peace and Unity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Winter

What a traitor. How could he? How could he make such ignorant comments about Wahaabism when he studied at Al-Azhar? Is he more ignorant than the kuffar?

[ibnYaseen]

He is an extremist sufi. Don't forget that sufi's believe they have true Islam and that everybody else is on a different planet.

[Brother_Mujahid]

I dont know but another one was Abdul Hakeem Murad.

He spoke at Global peace and Unity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Winter

What a traitor. How could he? How could he make such ignorant comments about Wahaabism when he studied at Al-Azhar? Is he more ignorant than the kuffar?

This man "Abdel-Hakim Murad", aka Timothy Winter, I can think of nothing good to say about this man. Everytime I read something from him it looks as if it were written by Daniel Pipes or some other Islamophobic commentator. This man should really bit his tongue as everything he has said in recent years has played into the agenda of those who would destroy Islam. (Though what should we expect from someone closely associated ideologically with G.F. al-Haddad and Nuh Keller?).

When it comes to these Western Soofi "du'aat", I find most of them having little to offer. They are given over to arrogant elitism and political correctness. They like to think of themselves as intellectually superior to the "Wahhabi" Muslims (which includes Salafis, Ikhwaanis, and Deobandis), while they themselves defend such primitive and neo-pagan acts as intercession through saints.

The only ones I can stomach are Zayd Shakir, who is decent and open minded man (though I wish he would abandon some of his hardcore-Soofi associates such as Muhammad al-Yac'oubi and Habib al-Jafari) and pre-9/11 Hamzah Yusuf (back then he was quite the "radical" and was willing to speak truth to power). Now unfortunately he is trying to present himself as the ideal "moderate" Western Muslim, and does a little too much boot licking for my tastes. Watching Hamzah Yusuf on Danish television last year was painful.

[student_of_ilm]

sufi this , sufi that, what are you lot then ?

[sword_of_islam]

Hamza Yousef is a dirty sufi no doubt about that but the boot licking he defintly learnt from the saudi scholars who aid the taghoot, to mention him for his boot licking and to ignore the boot lickers of the marines and praise them as scholars is abit ignorant and hypocritical.

[Magoo]

Hamza Yousef is a dirty sufi no doubt about that but the boot licking he defintly learnt from the saudi scholars who aid the taghoot, to mention him for his boot licking and to ignore the boot lickers of the marines and praise them as scholars is abit ignorant and hypocritical.

How can you put hamza yusuf in the same boat as the saudi scholars? they dont even swim in the same ocean!

[Suhaib Jobst]

I really believe that the term "Sufi" has become far too generalized, and that it should be qualified with such descriptions as "esoteric". For these figures mentioned belong to a modern deviation of the esotericisation of Tasawwuf, having no actual historical connection to the authentic Tasawwufa and Ahl as-Suffa.

This reformist process has implied the separation of Tasawwuf from Shari'a, which has been redefined as "exoteric" while the former is "esoteric". None of the Tasawwufa had such an understanding and indeed would have repudiated as heretics all those who propose such a heresy.

This should not be hard for some of you brothers to accept. Do you not also recognize the modern deviations of some self-styled "Salafis", who are actually a deviation from the da'wa of Shaykh Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab, rahimahullah? I refer to the movement which has been co-opted by the Sa'udi state, founded by that imperialist puppet Ibn Sa'ud. Is it not clear that theirs is an evolving ideology, one which has now accepted such deviations as "inter-faith dialogue" and alliance with the rafida and esoteric "sufis", which it had previously rejected?

In fact, the two deviations are closely connected. Witness, for example, the United Nations Millennium Heads of State Summit on September 6-8, 2000, which brought together various religious leaders on the basis of the masonic "brotherhood of mankind".

Two participants were the "sufi" Syrian Grand Mufti Ahmad Kuftaro and the "salafi" Abdullah Salaih Al-Obaid, the head of the corrupted Saudi mouthpiece Rabita. What brings them together? The fact that both promote the "islamization" of capitalism, replacing the letter of Shari'a with so-called "principles" and legitimizing kufr institutions by attaching an "Islamic" adjective to them (such as "Islamic reform", "Islamic banking", "Islamic state", etc.).

With their respective preoccupations with "esoteric" (batin) and "exoteric" (zahir) aspects of Islam, they have represented two aspects of the Islamic reformist movement, which seeks to replace the Shari'a with the rule of the capitalist banking-order and Tasawwuf with the rendering of religions to only the personal and moral sphere, making it irrelevant on the political and economic spheres.

Meanwhile, these religious leaders are relegated to the utilitarian pragmatic approach of focusing solely on moral issues but excusing such serious economic matters as Riba and the abolition of the Awqaf with yet more centralization of the capitalist/socialist state.

We must recognize the various facets of this reformist movement, the innumerable damage they have done to the faith and practice of the Muslims. This is why I refuse to generalize with such terms as "sufi" and "salafi", which in effect denies those genuine religious sciences of Islam which have been distorted by the deviations of the esotericists and puritans. Wa Allahu A'lam.

[kamals]

Brother Suhaib, you bring up an interesting point... I think this is the point that Umar Vadillo of the Murabitun was tryingto make in his "esoteric deviation in Islam" - that splitting things into an esoteric / exoteric, zahir / batin divide is a betrayal of tauhid on a fundamental level. That Sufism is not the problem as tassawuf is simply a science of self-purification that has, as ALL of the sciences in the Din, been subject to deviation and corruption in various ages.


As for unpalatable statements by one or two contemporary figures whom I and others may have admired in the past, we won't be asked of their deeds nor they of ours, but the ugliness in the tones of voice in refering to any scholar bothers me.

In particular I refer to ones whose pre 9/11 discourse was remarkably different than their discourses here, to go unnamed to avoid fitnah and slander, I try to have a "husn ul-dhan" and ascribe to them

It is easy for me or someone with less at stake to run off our mouthes in public. There may be virtue to speaking truth to power but there may be times in which silence is preferable.

This is not a defense of the undefendible, we should only fear Allah, This is just speculation on my part, to have a good thought, a husn ul-dhan, towards other Muslims who are NOT murtads NOR zindiqs. A partial putting into context:

I met Imam Zaid Shakir at a confrence, he was friends with some VERY serious brothers in my community whom I knew to be sound without a doubt.

Talking to the Imam I was impressed and blown away by his knowledge and great, great, concern for the Ummah. GREAT concern and fikr.

Nearest as I can tell his agenda, and others similar, may necessitate discretion in speech since brothers like him see themselves as engaged in a very important project, the setting up of lasting and deep penitrating institutions in the West for dawa and education with the aim of rectifying the abysmal intellectual state of the Ummah here. Whether this is or is not a valid excuse is another matter.

Condemning "marytrdom operations" this is a matter of fiqh that can be disputed - it is a matter in which legitimate ikhtilaf may be entertained, and even if one accepts their validity there sure is room to dispute specific uses of a particular tactic, and room to condemn it if it seems counterproductive to the interests of the Ummah and dangerous or grossly in breech of the huquq of others.

So when I hear some people make statements that seem "bootlicking" I mind my own business. It is possible, and this is not a defense, that some people fear sabotaging efforts that they are working on.. and rightly or wrongly they choose a path of discretion and veiled speech.

[hifdh]

This man "Abdel-Hakim Murad", aka Timothy Winter, I can think of nothing good to say about this man. Everytime I read something from him it looks as if it were written by Daniel Pipes or some other Islamophobic commentator. This man should really bit his tongue as everything he has said in recent years has played into the agenda of those who would destroy Islam. (Though what should we expect from someone closely associated ideologically with G.F. al-Haddad and Nuh Keller?).

When it comes to these Western Soofi "du'aat", I find most of them having little to offer. They are given over to arrogant elitism and political correctness. They like to think of themselves as intellectually superior to the "Wahhabi" Muslims (which includes Salafis, Ikhwaanis, and Deobandis), while they themselves defend such primitive and neo-pagan acts as intercession through saints.

The only ones I can stomach are Zayd Shakir, who is decent and open minded man (though I wish he would abandon some of his hardcore-Soofi associates such as Muhammad al-Yac'oubi and Habib al-Jafari) and pre-9/11 Hamzah Yusuf (back then he was quite the "radical" and was willing to speak truth to power). Now unfortunately he is trying to present himself as the ideal "moderate" Western Muslim, and does a little too much boot licking for my tastes. Watching Hamzah Yusuf on Danish television last year was painful.

Baraak Allahu feek, I feel likewise word for word - I had the misfortune of listening to Timmy Winters on the radio a few nights back, he was chosen to the BBC4 "Spiritual reflections" thing where he gets to speak for a few minutes... and all it sounded like was a session of ego massaging full of non-sensical big word usage that sounded more like a thesaurus exam than anything Islamic or "spiritual".