abu anas
28th January 2007, 07:58 PM
Assalaam Aleikum wa rahmet Allaahi wa barakaatuhu,
Bismillah Al Rahmaan Al Rahiim,
I have been reading for some time now, the so called responses & refutations Morbius has been making regarding the Qur’aan. Some of his replies are actually quite amazing, since he proves that Paul, as well as Yahweh (who is Jesus, The Father, The Holy Spirit - Christians claim) are liers. Insha'Allah I will do my best to expose your silly claims.
First issue:
You said:
I declare myself as an Orthodox Christian, but I do not adhere blindly to the teachings of the Church. I’d rather not go deeper into explaining my beliefs for I fear that we might dilute this thread.
My Response: Really? Well then, let's stick to the bible and leave out The Council of Nicea, etc etc.
Second issue:
You said:
I know that Bible is a good book and I encourage everyone to read it. But if a man in his life would read nothing else except Bible, such a man would truly be an idiot.
My Response: So, If you were to only read the WORD OF God ( according to you ), it would make you an idiot? Well, nothing much to say here.
Third issue:
You said:
Muhamed accepted story of Adam and Eve from the Old Testament, but Old Testament was wrong on this one.
My Response: Now, you made two claims here. 1) Muhammed(Saaws) copied the story of Adam and Hawwa(as) from the OT. 2) The OT was wrong regarding the story of Adam and Eve.
With regards to your first claim, using your logic, Jesus copied his teachings from the Old Testament. Now you wouldn’t want to say that, now would you? However, you have to understand a couple of things first before making such a wild claim. 1, there was no hard copy of an Old Testament or New Testament written in Arabic, during the time of Muhammed(Saaws). Your own scholars / theologians admit this ( such as Bruce Metzger ). 2, Muhammed (saaws) was an illiterate; he couldn't READ OR WRITE. So please, stop making such wild claims... you’re embarrassing yourself.
Fourth issue:
You said:
Story of Noah was taken from Jews, who took it from Egyptians, who took it from Babylonians. It’s a 5000 years old fairy tale, nothing more.
If you think it’s true, than simply answer me this: How did Noah sail around the world to pick up animals that lived exclusively in America and Australia? How did he travel through large areas of polar ice to find the penguins at the south pole and polar bears at the north pole?
It’s a kid’s story Abdullah, and we are not children any more.
My Response: Once again, thank you. You are showing us that Yahweh (The God of the Old Testament, whom you say is: Jesus, The Father, The Holy Spirit) stole his ideas from his creation. This must also mean that Paul is a lier, since he said in: 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
Fifth issue:
Someone said:
Finally, what stops God from creating some new animals after the flood, or even today?
You replied back with the following response:
Absolutely nothing. He is not done with our evolution. He is continually making us taller, more intelligent and giving us longer life. Statistics and examinations of ancient necropolises have clearly proven this.
My Response: Wow! Where in the Old Testament, the gospels or the letters of Paul, does it say that we are getting taller, more intelligent and that God is giving us longer life? I know I know.. this is what your men in white coats are teaching you :-]. It's funny however, as a lot of people seem to be getting dumber and dumber? How many christians do you have out there claiming that they worship ONE GOD, when infact it's THREE GOD'S.
The trinity teaches that Jesus is God, the Father is God, the Holy spirit is God. Jesus is NOT the father, nor is he the holy spirit. The Father is NOT Jesus, nor is he the holy spirit. The Holy Spirit is NOT the father, nor is he Jesus. They are CO-EQUAL, CO-EXIST, but they are THREE DISTINCT PERSONS. Yet for some weird reason, 1+1+1=1 for millions and millions of christians.
Finally, alot of christian missionaries assert that according to the Old Testament, our life span is actually DECREASING. Go read the Book of Genesis 6:13 ( 120 years ) -> "and was later shortened to" -> Psalms 90:10 ( 70 to 80 years )
Sixth issue:
Someone said:
You say that the story of Noh (as) was made up, because he couldn't have carried penguins with him, but firstly the scientists claim that all continents were joined together some time before.
You replied back with the following response:
Your chronology is all wrong. Like I told you, the oldest bones of modern-like humans are only about 200 000 years old. Pangaea broke into individual continents much earlier, back in the days when dinosaurs walked the Earth.
I’ll tell you how you can calculate when exactly that happened. Americas keep moving away from Europe and Africa at the speed of 7 meters per year. Take the map of the world and measure how far apart they are now. Divide the two numbers and you’ll know exactly when Pangaea broke apart.
My Response: The oldest bones of modern-like humans are only about 200 000 years old!?!? How can this be!? Morbius, I'm sorry to tell you this, but your holy book teaches that the earth is somewhat 6500 years old. You reach somewhere around 6500 years when you count the period of Adam to Jesus. Refer to the following links for the whole timeline.
http://home1.gte.net/bridavis/timeline.htm (Supported with evidence from the Bible).
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/re1/chapter8.asp
Seventh issue:
In the following post: http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=12409&postcount=15 Morbius supposedly pointed out Errors in the Qur'aan. I will be refuting his responses and while I'm at it, I will show the reader that Morbius: misquotes, lacks knowledge, and that some of his statements backfires against him.
1) He quotes: 2. MATURITY The Koran mentions that a human being reaches full maturity at age forty (Koran 46:15). This is a very unusual statement. Even today most people accept that full maturity is reached at puberty and laws usually put it between 18 to 21. However, the Koran is scientifically correct where even modern laws are inaccurate. If we analyze the statement based on psychological tests conducted by scientisits, what we find is that the “overall quantity of stored knowledge in the mind of an individual reaches a peak at age thirty-nine and after that it gradually declines.”
His Response: This is very questionable, for many studies find that intellectual peak is reached earlier. (+/-)
My Response: First of all, I hope next time you point out a so-called "error" you back it up with sources. Now, your response is quite funny... "many studies find that intellectual peak is reached earlier". Wow? Is that it? Now note: not all studies agree with their final results. Take example of the quote above and the studies that you referred to. Scientists have their own ideas on when a human reaches intellectual peak. But what we have is Allah(Swt) telling us when Man reaches full strenght.
(and reaches forty years,) meaning, his complete intellect, understanding, and patience reach the level of maturity. It has also been said that usually one will not change his ways once he reaches the age of forty. <Tafsir Ibn Kathir>
2) He quotes: THE FEMALE BEE The Koran mentions the bee, which leaves its home in search for food, in the verses that discusses honey (Koran 16:68,69). It uses the female verb in describing the bee, in Arabic faslukee. This, to the Arab, suggests that the bee, which leaves its home in search for food, is female.Does anyone except an expert know how to differentiate between a male and a female bee?
His Response: This is incorrect. Domestic honey bees that gather nectar are not female or male, they are just drones and they have no gender. This is one of the errors of Quran. (-)
My Response: What in the world are you talking about? Stop acting like you're the master of the sciences of Evolution, embryology, biology etc.etc. And for the love of God, will you please back your claims up with sources?
Now, I opened up WEBSTER'S UNIVERSAL COLLEGE DICTIONARY, and the description of a drone is the following:
-Drone: 1. the MALE of the honeybee and other bees that are stingless and MAKE NO HONEY.
Since you like to give people links to sites, I'm going to do the same to you:
http://www.bbka.org.uk/faq.php explains the following: How Many Types Of Bees Are In A Honeybee Colony?
Three types, a single queen, thousands of female workers and in the summer hundreds of male drones. The drone bee does no work however in the early autumn they are evicted by the workers and die.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bees/hivedron.html explains the following: The males or drones have one purpose in life: to mate with the queen. Nature has given them extra-large eyes to ensure that they do not lose sight of the queen on the mating flight. At the appropriate time, drones meet at special mating areas far from the hive, where they attempt to mate with the queen at heights of up to 100 feet off the ground. (See The Making Of for a description of how the filmmakers got around the height problem to film an in-flight mating.)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bees/hivework.html explains the following: Worker bees are all female and make up about 85 percent of nest bees. They have three life stages, during which they have specific roles to fill. Young workers (1 to 12 days old) clean cells, nurse the brood, and tend the queen. Middle-aged workers (12 to 20 days old) build the comb, store nectar and pollen brought by forager bees, and ventilate the nest (see temperature). Older workers (20 days to 30 days or more, the rough life expectancy of a honeybee), are primarily foragers who supply nectar and provide the enzymes needed for converting it to honey. Flying at a speed of about 15 miles per hour, each can travel more than three and a half miles from home on a single flight. Bee researcher Thomas Seeley has likened this capability to a five-foot-tall person "flying" 375 miles, the distance from Boston to Washington, or from Berlin to Zürich.
http://www.hivetool.com/guide/dronebee.htm explains the following: The Drone Bee
The drones are the male bees in the colony. Their sole function is reproduction. Drones who succeed in mating with a queen during her nuptial flight perish in the act. Drones are larger and heavier than the workers, but not as long as the queen. It is easy to identify a drone by its large compound eyes that come together at the top of the head.
http://www.hivetool.com/guide/workerbee.htm explains the following: The Worker Bee
The worker bees, although females, lack the fully developed reproductive organs of the queen. Normally they do not lay eggs, although if the colony is without a queen, or queen cell, a few workers may begin to lay drone eggs. A colony in such a condition is termed a laying worker colony.
The worker bees perform all the labor of the hive. They are equipped with "pollen baskets" on their hind legs and special wax glands which begin to function when they are approximately 10 days old.
So what are you going to tell the readers now? Obviously you have no knowledge on this issue and simply want to attack the Qur'aan because you know it's the truth.
3) He quotes: 9. THE DEATH OF STARS The Koran mentions the ‘death of stars’ (Koran 77:7-8). Astronomers including Dr. Patterson of Southwest Missouri State are surprised at finding this information in the Koran. They know that at the time of Muhammad, people believed that once a thing was formed, it was permanent. The Koran is very accurate when it mentions dying stars. Our own sun is a dying star.
His Response: But Quran doesn’t mention that stars are dying all the time, but infact states that they’ll all go at once at the Day of Decision. (-)
My Response: What are you claiming here? Please, post the surah and aayah before you make such a claim. You wouldn't want me saying something about Paul of Tarsus or the Holy spirit without any evidence from the New Testament, now would you?
4) He quotes: 11. MOVEMENT OF THE SUN. The sun’s movement is not something that is evident to our eyes or experience but requires specialized equipment. The Koran states in chapter 36, verse 39: “And the sun constantly journeys towards a homing place for it and for the moon, We have determined phases (36:39).”
His Response: Quran also speaks of the traveler who saw place from where the Sun rises and muddy pond where it sets. Forget it. (-)
My Response: Well, It's crystal clear now that you have been reading anti islamic sites that do nothing but misquote & misinterpret the Qur'aan.
I like the way you wrote your response though, "Traveler WHO SAW place from where the sun rises and muddy where it sets".
Exactly! HE (Dhul Qarnayn) Found the sun setting in a muddy spring. Did you catch it? Allah(Swt) Informs us how Dhul Qarnayn saw the sun setting. It wasn't Allah(Swt) explaining HOW THE SUN SETS. Here is the verse you are pointing to:
"Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, HE FOUND IT setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. 18:86" (In arabic: wajada )
Ibn Kathir(rah) Explains this aayah well in his Tafsir:
(Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun,) means, he followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun's setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible, and the tales told by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of these stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretics.
(he found it setting in a spring of Hami'ah) meaning, he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something which everyone who goes to the coast can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed. Hami'ah is, according to one of the two views, derived from the word Hama'ah, which means mud.
5) He quotes: 12. ISOSTACY AND MOUNTAIN ROOTS The Koran states that mountains are like “tent-pegs”, i.e. they have a root extending down into the earth like “anchors” and this gives stability and balance to the earth.“Have we not expanded the earth and made the mountains as tent pegs” (Koran 78:6-7)” We have cast into the earth anchors lest it shake with you” (Koran 31:10 etc.)
His Response: True, mauntains made by tectonic movements indeed have such “roots”, but it’s exactly because of such roots that epicenter of earthquakes is usually at the foot of the mountain. Roots do not help with earthquakes, but provoke them. (-)
My Response: You have to understand that the function of the mountain in the Qur'aan, is given to prevent the earth from SHAKING. Nowhere does the Qur'aan say that the mountain prevents earthquakes. I'm going to quote Dr. Zakir Naik on this one:
Taken from: "The Qur’an and the Bible in the light of Science" - Debate between Dr.Zakir Naik and Dr William Campbell.
"And if you read the book ‘The Earth’ which is referred by almost all the universities, in the field of Geology, one of its authors by the name of Dr Frank Press, who was the advisor to the former president of USA, Jimmy Carter, and was the president of the Academy of Science of USA. He writes in his book that…‘The mountains are wedge shaped - It has deep roots within. And he says that…‘The function of the mountain is to stabilize the earth.’ And the Qur’an says in Surah Ambiya, Ch. No 21, Verse No. 31, in Surah Luqman, Ch. No. 31 Verse No.10, as well as in Surah Nahl, Ch. No. 16, Verse No. 15, that…‘We have made the mountains standing firm on the Earth, lest it would shake with them and with you.’ The function of the mountain in the Qur’an, is given to prevent the Earth from shaking. Nowhere does the Qur’an say that the mountain prevents the earthquake. And Dr. William Campbell said - He writes in his book, and even the talk, that… ‘You find in the mountains regions, there are various earthquakes, and mountains cause earthquake.’ Point to be noted - Nowhere does the Qur’an say that mountains prevent earthquake. The Arabic word for ‘earthquake’ as Dr. William Campbell knows Arabic, is ‘zilzaal’ or ‘zalzala’- But the words used in these three Verses I quoted, it is ‘Tamida.’ ‘Tamida’ means ‘to shake’, ‘to ‘sway’, ‘to swing.’ And Qur’an says in Surah Luqman, Ch. 31, Verse No. 10, as well as Surah Nahl, Ch. No. 16 Verse No. 15…‘We have put on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it would shake with you. It is ‘tamide bikum’…‘Shake with you’, Indicating, if the mountains were not there, if you would have walked, if you would have moved, even the earth would have moved with you - If you would have swayed, even the earth would have swayed with you. And we know normally when we walk on the Earth, the Earth does not shake, and the reason for this is, according to Dr. Frank Press and Dr. Najjat who is from Saudi Arabia, and he wrote a full book on the Geological concepts in the Qur’an, answering almost every thing what Dr. William Campbell has said - in detail. And Dr. William Campbell in his book, he writes that…‘If mountains prevent the shaking of the earth, then how come you find earthquakes in the mountains regions.’ I said, No where does the Qur’an say, mountains prevent earthquake. Earthquake is ‘zilzaal’ - and if you see the definition in the Oxford dictionary, it says… Earthquake is due to convulsion of the superficial crust of the Earth, due to relief of compressed Siesmic waves, due to crack in the rock, or due to volcanic reaction. The Qur’an speaks about ‘zalzala’ in Surah Zalzaal, Ch. 99 - But here it speaks about ‘tamida bikum’- ‘to prevent the earth from shaking with you.’ And in reply to the statement…‘That if mountains prevent earthquakes, how come you find earthquakes in mountainous regions ?’ The reply is, that - If I say that medical doctors, they prevent the sickness and disease in a human being, and if someone argues…‘If doctors prevent the sickness and diseases in a human being, how come you find more sick people in the hospitals, where there are more doctors than at home - where there are no doctors.’"
I recommend the readers in this forum the following book that touches on "The Geological Concept of Mountains in the Quran" By Dr.Zaghloul El-Nagger: http://www.waqfeya.com/open.php?cat=30&book=792´
7) He said: I already wrote about mistakes in Quran about human conception, here: http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=12367&postcount=123
My Response: Well this is an old claim which you can find in my Anti-Islamic site. It has already been dealt with so i will refer the reader to the rebuttal: http://www.answering-christianity.com/munir_munshey/semenproduction_rebuttal.htm
8) SIDE NOTE: Id like to ask Morbius what does he think about the GIANTS mentioned in the book of genesis 6:4: [There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.] I recommend you read the Book of Enoch, if you have no idea how these Giants were born ;-].
His Conclusion: Six pluses. Six places where Quran was right about scientific facts that were not known at the time of its writing. I must say that I was pretty impressed with some of these scientific facts present in the book. Despite of the places where Quran was scientifically wrong, parts of it impressed me very much, especially Muhamed’s knowledge that Universe was in gaseous state and that it is expanding.
My Response: [I]All your claims and accusations about where the Qur'aan was scientifically wrong has been refuted. Now here is My Conclusion: Where could Muhammed(Saaws) have possibly obtained ALL these informations? (A man living in the middle of the desert, Illiterate, never went to school, only spoke Arabic etc)… All these information on science, the information of what was to happen in the future, the information of the past ( the stories of the prophets, Adam, Idris, Nuh, Ibrahim, Ismail, Ishaq, Lut, Shu'aib, Salih, Hud, Yaqub, Yusuf, Musa, Harun, Ilyas, Alyassa, Dawud, Sulayman, Zakariyya, Yahya, Ayyub, Dhul Kifl, Yunus, Isa ibn Maryam ), the challenges the Allah(swt) proposed to those who disbelieved in Muhammed(Saaws).
Verily, Allah(swt) challenged the Jews in surah al baqarah ayaat 94-95 [Say: "If the last Home, with God, be for you specially, and not for anyone else, then seek ye for death, if ye are sincere." But they will never seek for death, on account of the (sins) which their hands have sent on before them. And God is well-acquainted with the wrong-doers.]
All that they (the Jews) had to do was to WISH for death, and the Qur'aan would have been proven to be false. But what about the christians? Allah(Swt) challenged them as well, in surah Aal-Imraan aayah 61 [(Then whoever disputes with you concerning him (`Isa) after (all this) knowledge that has come to you (i.e. `Isa) being a servant of Allah, and having no share in divinity), say (O Muhammad ): "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves ? then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the curse of Allah upon those who lie.'')]
Till this very day, Allah(swt) has set out challenges to those who reject the Qur'aan. In surah An Nisa ayaat 82 [Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.]
If you want to prove the Qur'aan wrong, just point out ONE CONTRADICTION, ONE ERROR. It is that easy. Since the time of Muhammad(Saaws) to our period of time, you have many people claiming contradictions in the Qur'aan, Errors in the Qur'aan. But what all these people do is misquote or misinterpet, just like what you have been doing.
But the greatest challenge of them all, which many have attempted and have failed misreably. In surah Al-Israa aayah 88 ["Say: 'If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Qur’aan, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.’"] Allah(Swt) then made the challenge easier, In surah Hud aayah 13 ["Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), 'Bring ten invented soorahs like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides Allaah, if you are truthful."] Allah(swt) then makes the challenge even more easier, In surah Al-Baqarah aayaht 23: ["And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single soorah like it, and call your witnesses besides Allaah if you are truthful." ] The shortest surah in Qur'aan is but three verses (Surah Al-Kauthar), yet till this very day, NO ONE has ever been able to complete the challenges Allah(Swt) has put forward to those in doubt.
I Ask Allah(Swt) to make this Rebuttal beneficial to all those who read it. I Ask Allah(Swt) to reward the efforts of the muslims in this forum. I Ask Allah(Swt) to guide Morbius to the truth, insha'Allah.
Wassalaam Aleikum wa rahmet Allaahi wa barakaatuhu.
Your brother in Islam, Abu Anas.
Bismillah Al Rahmaan Al Rahiim,
I have been reading for some time now, the so called responses & refutations Morbius has been making regarding the Qur’aan. Some of his replies are actually quite amazing, since he proves that Paul, as well as Yahweh (who is Jesus, The Father, The Holy Spirit - Christians claim) are liers. Insha'Allah I will do my best to expose your silly claims.
First issue:
You said:
I declare myself as an Orthodox Christian, but I do not adhere blindly to the teachings of the Church. I’d rather not go deeper into explaining my beliefs for I fear that we might dilute this thread.
My Response: Really? Well then, let's stick to the bible and leave out The Council of Nicea, etc etc.
Second issue:
You said:
I know that Bible is a good book and I encourage everyone to read it. But if a man in his life would read nothing else except Bible, such a man would truly be an idiot.
My Response: So, If you were to only read the WORD OF God ( according to you ), it would make you an idiot? Well, nothing much to say here.
Third issue:
You said:
Muhamed accepted story of Adam and Eve from the Old Testament, but Old Testament was wrong on this one.
My Response: Now, you made two claims here. 1) Muhammed(Saaws) copied the story of Adam and Hawwa(as) from the OT. 2) The OT was wrong regarding the story of Adam and Eve.
With regards to your first claim, using your logic, Jesus copied his teachings from the Old Testament. Now you wouldn’t want to say that, now would you? However, you have to understand a couple of things first before making such a wild claim. 1, there was no hard copy of an Old Testament or New Testament written in Arabic, during the time of Muhammed(Saaws). Your own scholars / theologians admit this ( such as Bruce Metzger ). 2, Muhammed (saaws) was an illiterate; he couldn't READ OR WRITE. So please, stop making such wild claims... you’re embarrassing yourself.
Fourth issue:
You said:
Story of Noah was taken from Jews, who took it from Egyptians, who took it from Babylonians. It’s a 5000 years old fairy tale, nothing more.
If you think it’s true, than simply answer me this: How did Noah sail around the world to pick up animals that lived exclusively in America and Australia? How did he travel through large areas of polar ice to find the penguins at the south pole and polar bears at the north pole?
It’s a kid’s story Abdullah, and we are not children any more.
My Response: Once again, thank you. You are showing us that Yahweh (The God of the Old Testament, whom you say is: Jesus, The Father, The Holy Spirit) stole his ideas from his creation. This must also mean that Paul is a lier, since he said in: 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
Fifth issue:
Someone said:
Finally, what stops God from creating some new animals after the flood, or even today?
You replied back with the following response:
Absolutely nothing. He is not done with our evolution. He is continually making us taller, more intelligent and giving us longer life. Statistics and examinations of ancient necropolises have clearly proven this.
My Response: Wow! Where in the Old Testament, the gospels or the letters of Paul, does it say that we are getting taller, more intelligent and that God is giving us longer life? I know I know.. this is what your men in white coats are teaching you :-]. It's funny however, as a lot of people seem to be getting dumber and dumber? How many christians do you have out there claiming that they worship ONE GOD, when infact it's THREE GOD'S.
The trinity teaches that Jesus is God, the Father is God, the Holy spirit is God. Jesus is NOT the father, nor is he the holy spirit. The Father is NOT Jesus, nor is he the holy spirit. The Holy Spirit is NOT the father, nor is he Jesus. They are CO-EQUAL, CO-EXIST, but they are THREE DISTINCT PERSONS. Yet for some weird reason, 1+1+1=1 for millions and millions of christians.
Finally, alot of christian missionaries assert that according to the Old Testament, our life span is actually DECREASING. Go read the Book of Genesis 6:13 ( 120 years ) -> "and was later shortened to" -> Psalms 90:10 ( 70 to 80 years )
Sixth issue:
Someone said:
You say that the story of Noh (as) was made up, because he couldn't have carried penguins with him, but firstly the scientists claim that all continents were joined together some time before.
You replied back with the following response:
Your chronology is all wrong. Like I told you, the oldest bones of modern-like humans are only about 200 000 years old. Pangaea broke into individual continents much earlier, back in the days when dinosaurs walked the Earth.
I’ll tell you how you can calculate when exactly that happened. Americas keep moving away from Europe and Africa at the speed of 7 meters per year. Take the map of the world and measure how far apart they are now. Divide the two numbers and you’ll know exactly when Pangaea broke apart.
My Response: The oldest bones of modern-like humans are only about 200 000 years old!?!? How can this be!? Morbius, I'm sorry to tell you this, but your holy book teaches that the earth is somewhat 6500 years old. You reach somewhere around 6500 years when you count the period of Adam to Jesus. Refer to the following links for the whole timeline.
http://home1.gte.net/bridavis/timeline.htm (Supported with evidence from the Bible).
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/re1/chapter8.asp
Seventh issue:
In the following post: http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=12409&postcount=15 Morbius supposedly pointed out Errors in the Qur'aan. I will be refuting his responses and while I'm at it, I will show the reader that Morbius: misquotes, lacks knowledge, and that some of his statements backfires against him.
1) He quotes: 2. MATURITY The Koran mentions that a human being reaches full maturity at age forty (Koran 46:15). This is a very unusual statement. Even today most people accept that full maturity is reached at puberty and laws usually put it between 18 to 21. However, the Koran is scientifically correct where even modern laws are inaccurate. If we analyze the statement based on psychological tests conducted by scientisits, what we find is that the “overall quantity of stored knowledge in the mind of an individual reaches a peak at age thirty-nine and after that it gradually declines.”
His Response: This is very questionable, for many studies find that intellectual peak is reached earlier. (+/-)
My Response: First of all, I hope next time you point out a so-called "error" you back it up with sources. Now, your response is quite funny... "many studies find that intellectual peak is reached earlier". Wow? Is that it? Now note: not all studies agree with their final results. Take example of the quote above and the studies that you referred to. Scientists have their own ideas on when a human reaches intellectual peak. But what we have is Allah(Swt) telling us when Man reaches full strenght.
(and reaches forty years,) meaning, his complete intellect, understanding, and patience reach the level of maturity. It has also been said that usually one will not change his ways once he reaches the age of forty. <Tafsir Ibn Kathir>
2) He quotes: THE FEMALE BEE The Koran mentions the bee, which leaves its home in search for food, in the verses that discusses honey (Koran 16:68,69). It uses the female verb in describing the bee, in Arabic faslukee. This, to the Arab, suggests that the bee, which leaves its home in search for food, is female.Does anyone except an expert know how to differentiate between a male and a female bee?
His Response: This is incorrect. Domestic honey bees that gather nectar are not female or male, they are just drones and they have no gender. This is one of the errors of Quran. (-)
My Response: What in the world are you talking about? Stop acting like you're the master of the sciences of Evolution, embryology, biology etc.etc. And for the love of God, will you please back your claims up with sources?
Now, I opened up WEBSTER'S UNIVERSAL COLLEGE DICTIONARY, and the description of a drone is the following:
-Drone: 1. the MALE of the honeybee and other bees that are stingless and MAKE NO HONEY.
Since you like to give people links to sites, I'm going to do the same to you:
http://www.bbka.org.uk/faq.php explains the following: How Many Types Of Bees Are In A Honeybee Colony?
Three types, a single queen, thousands of female workers and in the summer hundreds of male drones. The drone bee does no work however in the early autumn they are evicted by the workers and die.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bees/hivedron.html explains the following: The males or drones have one purpose in life: to mate with the queen. Nature has given them extra-large eyes to ensure that they do not lose sight of the queen on the mating flight. At the appropriate time, drones meet at special mating areas far from the hive, where they attempt to mate with the queen at heights of up to 100 feet off the ground. (See The Making Of for a description of how the filmmakers got around the height problem to film an in-flight mating.)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bees/hivework.html explains the following: Worker bees are all female and make up about 85 percent of nest bees. They have three life stages, during which they have specific roles to fill. Young workers (1 to 12 days old) clean cells, nurse the brood, and tend the queen. Middle-aged workers (12 to 20 days old) build the comb, store nectar and pollen brought by forager bees, and ventilate the nest (see temperature). Older workers (20 days to 30 days or more, the rough life expectancy of a honeybee), are primarily foragers who supply nectar and provide the enzymes needed for converting it to honey. Flying at a speed of about 15 miles per hour, each can travel more than three and a half miles from home on a single flight. Bee researcher Thomas Seeley has likened this capability to a five-foot-tall person "flying" 375 miles, the distance from Boston to Washington, or from Berlin to Zürich.
http://www.hivetool.com/guide/dronebee.htm explains the following: The Drone Bee
The drones are the male bees in the colony. Their sole function is reproduction. Drones who succeed in mating with a queen during her nuptial flight perish in the act. Drones are larger and heavier than the workers, but not as long as the queen. It is easy to identify a drone by its large compound eyes that come together at the top of the head.
http://www.hivetool.com/guide/workerbee.htm explains the following: The Worker Bee
The worker bees, although females, lack the fully developed reproductive organs of the queen. Normally they do not lay eggs, although if the colony is without a queen, or queen cell, a few workers may begin to lay drone eggs. A colony in such a condition is termed a laying worker colony.
The worker bees perform all the labor of the hive. They are equipped with "pollen baskets" on their hind legs and special wax glands which begin to function when they are approximately 10 days old.
So what are you going to tell the readers now? Obviously you have no knowledge on this issue and simply want to attack the Qur'aan because you know it's the truth.
3) He quotes: 9. THE DEATH OF STARS The Koran mentions the ‘death of stars’ (Koran 77:7-8). Astronomers including Dr. Patterson of Southwest Missouri State are surprised at finding this information in the Koran. They know that at the time of Muhammad, people believed that once a thing was formed, it was permanent. The Koran is very accurate when it mentions dying stars. Our own sun is a dying star.
His Response: But Quran doesn’t mention that stars are dying all the time, but infact states that they’ll all go at once at the Day of Decision. (-)
My Response: What are you claiming here? Please, post the surah and aayah before you make such a claim. You wouldn't want me saying something about Paul of Tarsus or the Holy spirit without any evidence from the New Testament, now would you?
4) He quotes: 11. MOVEMENT OF THE SUN. The sun’s movement is not something that is evident to our eyes or experience but requires specialized equipment. The Koran states in chapter 36, verse 39: “And the sun constantly journeys towards a homing place for it and for the moon, We have determined phases (36:39).”
His Response: Quran also speaks of the traveler who saw place from where the Sun rises and muddy pond where it sets. Forget it. (-)
My Response: Well, It's crystal clear now that you have been reading anti islamic sites that do nothing but misquote & misinterpret the Qur'aan.
I like the way you wrote your response though, "Traveler WHO SAW place from where the sun rises and muddy where it sets".
Exactly! HE (Dhul Qarnayn) Found the sun setting in a muddy spring. Did you catch it? Allah(Swt) Informs us how Dhul Qarnayn saw the sun setting. It wasn't Allah(Swt) explaining HOW THE SUN SETS. Here is the verse you are pointing to:
"Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, HE FOUND IT setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. 18:86" (In arabic: wajada )
Ibn Kathir(rah) Explains this aayah well in his Tafsir:
(Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun,) means, he followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun's setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible, and the tales told by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of these stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretics.
(he found it setting in a spring of Hami'ah) meaning, he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something which everyone who goes to the coast can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed. Hami'ah is, according to one of the two views, derived from the word Hama'ah, which means mud.
5) He quotes: 12. ISOSTACY AND MOUNTAIN ROOTS The Koran states that mountains are like “tent-pegs”, i.e. they have a root extending down into the earth like “anchors” and this gives stability and balance to the earth.“Have we not expanded the earth and made the mountains as tent pegs” (Koran 78:6-7)” We have cast into the earth anchors lest it shake with you” (Koran 31:10 etc.)
His Response: True, mauntains made by tectonic movements indeed have such “roots”, but it’s exactly because of such roots that epicenter of earthquakes is usually at the foot of the mountain. Roots do not help with earthquakes, but provoke them. (-)
My Response: You have to understand that the function of the mountain in the Qur'aan, is given to prevent the earth from SHAKING. Nowhere does the Qur'aan say that the mountain prevents earthquakes. I'm going to quote Dr. Zakir Naik on this one:
Taken from: "The Qur’an and the Bible in the light of Science" - Debate between Dr.Zakir Naik and Dr William Campbell.
"And if you read the book ‘The Earth’ which is referred by almost all the universities, in the field of Geology, one of its authors by the name of Dr Frank Press, who was the advisor to the former president of USA, Jimmy Carter, and was the president of the Academy of Science of USA. He writes in his book that…‘The mountains are wedge shaped - It has deep roots within. And he says that…‘The function of the mountain is to stabilize the earth.’ And the Qur’an says in Surah Ambiya, Ch. No 21, Verse No. 31, in Surah Luqman, Ch. No. 31 Verse No.10, as well as in Surah Nahl, Ch. No. 16, Verse No. 15, that…‘We have made the mountains standing firm on the Earth, lest it would shake with them and with you.’ The function of the mountain in the Qur’an, is given to prevent the Earth from shaking. Nowhere does the Qur’an say that the mountain prevents the earthquake. And Dr. William Campbell said - He writes in his book, and even the talk, that… ‘You find in the mountains regions, there are various earthquakes, and mountains cause earthquake.’ Point to be noted - Nowhere does the Qur’an say that mountains prevent earthquake. The Arabic word for ‘earthquake’ as Dr. William Campbell knows Arabic, is ‘zilzaal’ or ‘zalzala’- But the words used in these three Verses I quoted, it is ‘Tamida.’ ‘Tamida’ means ‘to shake’, ‘to ‘sway’, ‘to swing.’ And Qur’an says in Surah Luqman, Ch. 31, Verse No. 10, as well as Surah Nahl, Ch. No. 16 Verse No. 15…‘We have put on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it would shake with you. It is ‘tamide bikum’…‘Shake with you’, Indicating, if the mountains were not there, if you would have walked, if you would have moved, even the earth would have moved with you - If you would have swayed, even the earth would have swayed with you. And we know normally when we walk on the Earth, the Earth does not shake, and the reason for this is, according to Dr. Frank Press and Dr. Najjat who is from Saudi Arabia, and he wrote a full book on the Geological concepts in the Qur’an, answering almost every thing what Dr. William Campbell has said - in detail. And Dr. William Campbell in his book, he writes that…‘If mountains prevent the shaking of the earth, then how come you find earthquakes in the mountains regions.’ I said, No where does the Qur’an say, mountains prevent earthquake. Earthquake is ‘zilzaal’ - and if you see the definition in the Oxford dictionary, it says… Earthquake is due to convulsion of the superficial crust of the Earth, due to relief of compressed Siesmic waves, due to crack in the rock, or due to volcanic reaction. The Qur’an speaks about ‘zalzala’ in Surah Zalzaal, Ch. 99 - But here it speaks about ‘tamida bikum’- ‘to prevent the earth from shaking with you.’ And in reply to the statement…‘That if mountains prevent earthquakes, how come you find earthquakes in mountainous regions ?’ The reply is, that - If I say that medical doctors, they prevent the sickness and disease in a human being, and if someone argues…‘If doctors prevent the sickness and diseases in a human being, how come you find more sick people in the hospitals, where there are more doctors than at home - where there are no doctors.’"
I recommend the readers in this forum the following book that touches on "The Geological Concept of Mountains in the Quran" By Dr.Zaghloul El-Nagger: http://www.waqfeya.com/open.php?cat=30&book=792´
7) He said: I already wrote about mistakes in Quran about human conception, here: http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=12367&postcount=123
My Response: Well this is an old claim which you can find in my Anti-Islamic site. It has already been dealt with so i will refer the reader to the rebuttal: http://www.answering-christianity.com/munir_munshey/semenproduction_rebuttal.htm
8) SIDE NOTE: Id like to ask Morbius what does he think about the GIANTS mentioned in the book of genesis 6:4: [There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.] I recommend you read the Book of Enoch, if you have no idea how these Giants were born ;-].
His Conclusion: Six pluses. Six places where Quran was right about scientific facts that were not known at the time of its writing. I must say that I was pretty impressed with some of these scientific facts present in the book. Despite of the places where Quran was scientifically wrong, parts of it impressed me very much, especially Muhamed’s knowledge that Universe was in gaseous state and that it is expanding.
My Response: [I]All your claims and accusations about where the Qur'aan was scientifically wrong has been refuted. Now here is My Conclusion: Where could Muhammed(Saaws) have possibly obtained ALL these informations? (A man living in the middle of the desert, Illiterate, never went to school, only spoke Arabic etc)… All these information on science, the information of what was to happen in the future, the information of the past ( the stories of the prophets, Adam, Idris, Nuh, Ibrahim, Ismail, Ishaq, Lut, Shu'aib, Salih, Hud, Yaqub, Yusuf, Musa, Harun, Ilyas, Alyassa, Dawud, Sulayman, Zakariyya, Yahya, Ayyub, Dhul Kifl, Yunus, Isa ibn Maryam ), the challenges the Allah(swt) proposed to those who disbelieved in Muhammed(Saaws).
Verily, Allah(swt) challenged the Jews in surah al baqarah ayaat 94-95 [Say: "If the last Home, with God, be for you specially, and not for anyone else, then seek ye for death, if ye are sincere." But they will never seek for death, on account of the (sins) which their hands have sent on before them. And God is well-acquainted with the wrong-doers.]
All that they (the Jews) had to do was to WISH for death, and the Qur'aan would have been proven to be false. But what about the christians? Allah(Swt) challenged them as well, in surah Aal-Imraan aayah 61 [(Then whoever disputes with you concerning him (`Isa) after (all this) knowledge that has come to you (i.e. `Isa) being a servant of Allah, and having no share in divinity), say (O Muhammad ): "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves ? then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the curse of Allah upon those who lie.'')]
Till this very day, Allah(swt) has set out challenges to those who reject the Qur'aan. In surah An Nisa ayaat 82 [Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.]
If you want to prove the Qur'aan wrong, just point out ONE CONTRADICTION, ONE ERROR. It is that easy. Since the time of Muhammad(Saaws) to our period of time, you have many people claiming contradictions in the Qur'aan, Errors in the Qur'aan. But what all these people do is misquote or misinterpet, just like what you have been doing.
But the greatest challenge of them all, which many have attempted and have failed misreably. In surah Al-Israa aayah 88 ["Say: 'If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Qur’aan, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.’"] Allah(Swt) then made the challenge easier, In surah Hud aayah 13 ["Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), 'Bring ten invented soorahs like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides Allaah, if you are truthful."] Allah(swt) then makes the challenge even more easier, In surah Al-Baqarah aayaht 23: ["And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single soorah like it, and call your witnesses besides Allaah if you are truthful." ] The shortest surah in Qur'aan is but three verses (Surah Al-Kauthar), yet till this very day, NO ONE has ever been able to complete the challenges Allah(Swt) has put forward to those in doubt.
I Ask Allah(Swt) to make this Rebuttal beneficial to all those who read it. I Ask Allah(Swt) to reward the efforts of the muslims in this forum. I Ask Allah(Swt) to guide Morbius to the truth, insha'Allah.
Wassalaam Aleikum wa rahmet Allaahi wa barakaatuhu.
Your brother in Islam, Abu Anas.