Br Abuz Zubair - Categorization of Tawheed

[ansari]

Assalam Alaikum brother,

I have been told that categorizing Tawheed into Tawheed Ar-Rububiyyah, Tawheed Al-Uluhiyah, and Tawheed Al Asmaa wa Sifaat is a Bid'ah and was not the practice of the Salaf. Is this true? And have any Salaf mentioned this categorization? And how is this categorization derived?

Apparently this is mentioned in Imam Abu Hanifa's Fiqh Al Akbar. Can you shed some light on this matter?

Jazakallah Khair.

[Abuz Zubair]

I think there us already a thread about it somewhere on these forums?

[ansari]

I searched but could'nt find anything.

[aburasheed]

Categorization a bida'ah? It's merely grouping things into category without changing it, and it's based on al-Quran and Sunnah. Just as the knowledge of the deen divided into Fiqh, Usul, Tafseer, etc.

Some of the previous scholars who have categorized tawheed: Ibn Abbas in explaining surah Yusuf verse 106 (من إيمانهم أنهم إذا قيل لهم: من خلق السماوات ومن خلق الأرض ومن خلق الجبال؟ قالوا: اللّه وهم مشركون به), Imam Abu Hanifah (Fiqh Asbat??), Ibn Battah (Ibanah??).

You can listen to Sheikh Saleh as-Saleh mention about this in explaining Kitab ut-Tawheed, I'm not sure which lecture, but towards the beginning of the lecture:
http://www.understand-islam.net/audio/andromeda.php?q=f&f=%2FBeliefs+Pillars+and+Tawheed%2FTawheed%2FThe+B eneficial+Saying+on+The+Book+of+Tawheed

[Abdullah al-Shishani]

Some daee consider bida to add a forth category, tawheed al hakimiya, even though this whole categorization is nothing but to make it easier to learn important principals of the deen. remember Abu Bakr (ra) was also against writing Quran as single book, and had to be convinced by the sahaba (ra).

[Um Abdullah M.]

the categorization of in into 3 is not new
Imam as Sunnah Ibn Battah al Ukburi rahimahu Allah (died 387 A.H.)
mentioned this categorization without naming it (meaning saying rububiyyah, uloohiyah, asma sifat)
but he categorized it explaining each one.

if u want the arabic text I can get it for you, but someone will have to translate it.

also, the words rububiyyah, uloohiya, are mentioned in quite a few books of past scholars, meaning the same thing as in this categorization, uloohiyah having to do with ibadah and ruboobiyah having to do with Allah being creater and sustainor of the universe.

one book I remember these words mentioned in there and with that meaning is Tafsir of Imam at Tabari rahimahu Allah who died also in the 300's A.H. but don't remember what the exact year was.

so whoever tells you it is new, and past scholars before Imam Ibn Taimiyyah rahimahu Allah never did that are WRONG.

also, it is something to make easier to learn and understand, noting is added or removed
it same as science of usool fiqh, of hadith ..etc.

[joefso]

yes but RasoolAllaah Sallaho Alayhi Wasalam did not do this, nor did the sahaba so how can one permit this trough these scholars? Bida = bida. 1+1=2


I would like to know more about this, could someone show/point me out to the exact references given?

[Um Abdullah M.]

so u consider science of usool al fiqh, of hadith, of Quran ..etc. to be bid'ah

can you show me any scholar from past or present considering those sciences to be bid'ah?

also, do you know what the definition of bid'ah in deen is?

[abu hafs]

Salaamualaikum
Its not necassary to categorize tawheed at all .
Heres What Imaam Razi , the Ashari 's Shaykhul Islam said

.Say, "Who provides for you from the heaven and the earth? Or who controls hearing and sight and who brings the living out of the dead and brings the dead out of the living and who arranges [every] matter?" They will say, " Allah ," so say, "Then will you not fear Him?" [10:31]

Razi said in the tafseer of the verse (http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=4&tSoraNo=10&tAyahNo=31&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0)
إذا سألهم عن مدبر هذه الأحوال فسيقولون إنه الله سبحانه وتعالى، وهذا يدل على أن المخاطبين بهذا الكلام كانوا يعرفون الله ويقرون به، وهم الذين قالوا في عبادتهم للأصنام إنها تقربنا إلى الله زلفى وإنهم شفعاؤنا عند الله وكانوا يعلمون أن هذه الأصنام لا تنفع ولا تضر، فعند ذلك قال لرسوله عليه السلام: { فَقُلْ أَفَلاَ تَتَّقُونَ } يعني أفلا تتقون أن تجعلوا هذه الأوثان شركاء لله في المعبودية، مع اعترافكم بأن كل الخيرات في الدنيا والآخرة إنما تحصل من رحمة الله وإحسانه، واعترافكم بأن هذه الأوثان لا تنفع ولا تضر ألب
"If it is asked to them about the controller of these things(mentioned in the verse) they will say Allah swt, this is proof the that they knew about Allah and admit it (that Allah was the sole controller of things mentioned in the verse) .They said about their worship of the idols, that it draws us closer to Allah and they are our intercessor with Allah and they knew that these idols cannot harm or benefit by themselves .

Next Allah said to his messenger {فَقُلْ أَفَلاَ تَتَّقُون }

Meaning: Do u not fear Allah('s punishment) to set up partners with him in worship (Ma'budiyyah) after recognizing that all things good in dunya and the akhira that happen are from the mercy of Allah and his favour and recognizing that these idols neither benefit nor harm
This is the exact concept we say with a different wording. We have not innovated a new concept rather we simply state it in an easier manner to understand, this would not have been necassary had the mutakallims not confused the masses about tawheed.

Ibn 'Arabi the "Shaykhul Akbar" of the sufis also categorized tawheed


Below are excerpts from Muhyî ad-Dîn ibn `Arabî’s work of Sufi enlightenment entitled al-Futûhât al-Makkîyyah. Tawhîd ar-Rubûbîyyah
والفطرة علم التوحيد التي فطر الله الخلق عليها حين أشهدهم حين قبضهم من ظهورهم ألست بربكم قالوا بلى فشاهدوا الربوبية قبل كل شيء
“The nature is inclined to knowledge of at-Tawhîd which is the nature Allâh has placed in His creation from when they testified of Him (at the time of the pre-worldly covenent or mîthâq) until when they are siezed by their backs and asked, ‘Am I not your Lord?’ to which they will reply, ‘Indeed!’ Thus, they have testified to ar-Rubûbîyyah before everything.”
[al-Futûhât al-Makîyyah, Muhyî ad-Dîn ibn `Arabî]
Tawhîd al-Ulûhîyyah
وسمى مشركاً لكونه نسب الألوهية إلى غير الله مع الله
“And they are called mushrik due to their association of al-Ulûhîyyah to other than Allâh with Allâh..”
[al-Futûhât al-Makîyyah, Muhyî ad-Dîn ibn `Arabî]
Tawhîd al-Asmâ’ was-Siffât (also termed Tawhîd as-Siffât)
ومن أوتر بثلاث فهو توحيد الألوهة ومن أوتر بخمس فهو توحيد القلب ومن أوتر بسبع فهو توحيد الصفات ومن أوتر بتسع فقد جمع في كل ثلاث توحيد الذات وتوحيد الصفات وتوحيد الأفعال
“..and he who takes by the odd number of three, that is Tawhîd al-Ulûhîyyah; and who takes by the odd number of five, that is Tawhîd al-Qalb; and he who takes by the odd number of seven, that is Tawhîd as-Siffât; and who takes by the odd number of nine, then he has combined all three of the Tawhîd ath-Dhaat, and Tawhîd as-Siffât, and Tawhîd al-Af`âl)..”
[al-Futûhât al-Makîyyah, Muhyî ad-Dîn ibn `Arabî]
Finally, Ibn `Arabi went on to determine 36 categories of Tawhîd in all:
فإن الله تعالى يقول “وقضى ربك ألا تعبدوا إلا إياه” فما عبد فيما عبد إلا الله وهذا التوحيد على ستة وثلاثين أعني الواردة في القرآن
“Verily, Allâh has said {And your Lord has decreed that you shall not worship any other besides Him..} For there is not a worship in anything other than in worship of Allâh and this is at-Tawhîd which has 36 explanations deriving from the Qur’ân..”

http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/10/ibn-arabis-classifications-of-tawhid/

[joefso]

so u consider science of usool al fiqh, of hadith, of Quran ..etc. to be bid'ah

can you show me any scholar from past or present considering those sciences to be bid'ah?

also, do you know what the definition of bid'ah in deen is?

yes, everything in ibaadah that is invented after the death of prophet muhammad sallaho alayhi waslaam. Fiqh, of hadith of quran etc.. is sience of Islam, dividing tawhid is not.

[abu hafs]

ok do u agree with what razi stated ? If not why not , if yes know that we say the same thing .I went to a salafi madrasa as a child , we DIDNOT categorize tawheed but we were explained it how razi explained it.

[Um Abdullah M.]

how is categorizing hadith a ibadah (act of worship)?

and ur saying that "tawhid' (aqeedah) is not a science of Islam?

also, ur excuse for it being bid'ah is that it didn't happen in the time of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam

well the other sciences didn't either.

[abu hafs]

i think hes saying that all what the categorization that was done was good bida'h

[Um Abdullah M.]

the categorization was improtant to make people understand tawhid correctly
many Muslims think tawhid means to beleive that Allah is the only Creator and sustainer of the universe, and that is it !
which is only part of the whole tawhid.
the pagan arabs believed in this part but they associated partners with Allah in worship, which made them mushrikeen, because worshiping only Allah is another part of tawhid, which is greatly stressed in the Quran, because most of the shirk happens in this part.
and the third is regarding Allah's attributes.
the jahmiyyah claimed to apply the first 2 but negated the third (attributes) so their tawhid was not complete, and they were declared kafir by the scholars of Islam.

so one must have complete tawhid, which includes believe Allah is the only Creator and sustainer of the universe, to worship Him alone, and to believe in all of His attributes with no likening to creation.

if one does not believe in all of that, then his tawheed is incomplete, and becomes a mushrik or kafir.

[Um Abdullah M.]

i think hes saying that all what the categorization that was done was good bida'h

It is not bid'ah in deen at all.

the bid'ah in deen has a specific defintion, conditions.
one must know it to understand what is bid'ah in deen and what is not.
and this needs a whole new separate thread.

[joefso]

how is categorizing hadith a ibadah (act of worship)?

and ur saying that "tawhid' (aqeedah) is not a science of Islam?

also, ur excuse for it being bid'ah is that it didn't happen in the time of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam

well the other sciences didn't either.

those are sunnahs of khalifa the rightly guided, dividing tawhid is not!

[joefso]

i think hes saying that all what the categorization that was done was good bida'h


you think i'm suffi cause I was reading upon stands of tassawul and said what I had to say?

[abu khattab]

Actually: i would disagree to some extent...."SOME" categorisation could fall into bidah like using terms in asmaa wa sifaat which are never used by salaf, or words that misrepresents an aspect or meaning of Allah's name. Short example is saying "Allah is in direction where there is no direction"...i remember Abu Zubair quoted something replying to Abu D*** and mentioned it there....

As for implying bidah for categorising tawheed into 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 then these categorisations have been done by Allah Himself as ulema explain...

------------------
Surah Al-Faatiha
------------------
1. In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

-------------------------------------
A: Tawheed Ar-Rubobiyah
-------------------------------------
2. All the praises and thanks be to Allâh, the Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns and All that exists).

------------------------------
B: Tawheed Asmaa wal Sifaat
------------------------------
3. the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

---------------------------------------------
C: Tawheed Al-Ulohiyyah / Tawheed ul Ibaadah
----------------------------------------------
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).



Also, some ulema such as ibn taymiyyah only categorised tawheed into 2, tawheed ur rubobiyyah and tawheed ul qasd wal ithbaat, so according to them dividing tawheed into 3 would be a bidah?

And Allamah shanqeeti said in his tafseer (Adwaaul Biyaan) that Tawheed ul ibadah is the other half to tawheed ul haakimyyah - meaning that it comes underneath it. Also, one of my sheikh when was asked about this categorising (tawheed ul haakimiyyah as a seprate category) said that there is no need for it as it was never done by salaf...however, after gaining some understanding in deen , i really do not see it a big deal as some of other participants rightly said that "I DOES NOT CHANGES THE WAY WE SEE TAWHEED"

[abu hafs]

i never claimed anything abt u ...did i ..i was just clarifying what i thot u said ,nothing to do with sufism.
Anyway please answer this question
1. Do u beleive that Allah is the Creator, Sustainer ,Provider and there is no true might except Him?
2. Do u believe that Allah has the most perfect names and attributes ?
3. Given that Allah alone is the one who can harm you or protect you and he creates u and sustains u should give ur worship only to Allah , u pray only to Allah, u make sajada only to Allah ?

If u believe all of the above then the difference between us is semantical ..
Allah said in suratul Baqra:21 "يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اعْبُدُواْ رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُمْ وَالَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُون الَّذِي جَعَلَ لَكُمُ الأَرْضَ فِرَاشاً وَالسَّمَاء بِنَاء وَأَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَاءً فَأَخْرَجَ بِهِ مِنَ الثَّمَرَاتِ رِزْقاً لَّكُمْ فَلاَ تَجْعَلُواْ لِلّهِ أَندَاداً وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُو"
O mankind! Worship your Lord (Allah), Who created you and those who were before you so that you may become Al-Muttaqun Who has made the earth a resting place for you, and the sky as a canopy, and sent down water (rain) from the sky and brought forth therewith fruits as a provision for you. Then do not set up rivals unto Allah (in worship) while you know (that He Alone has the right to be worshipped).
so mankind is commanded to worshipped their Lord , the reason for it that is mentioned in the second part of the verse . The first part is action not just belief , that is worshipping Allah alone, this is what we mean by Singling out Allah in worship or Tawheed al-Uluhiyya , the reasons we worship him are mentioned in the second part of the verse , which doesnot mention actions but belief in the heart , that is beliving that Allah is solely the Lord of the Universe etc , this is Tawheed al -Rububiyyah .

Show me something i said in the above that is against Islam !

[Um Abdullah M.]

those are sunnahs of khalifa the rightly guided, dividing tawhid is not!

incorrect

it all happened after the death of the 4 Khalifas radiyallahu anhum

one example is usool al fiqh, Al Shafi'i rahimahu ALlah was first to write in usool al fiqh.
and some say it was abu Yusuf who did (student of Imam Abu Hanifah rahimahu Allah)

and the 4 rightly guided khalifa's died long before that.

[Um Abdullah M.]

Actually: i would disagree to some extent...."SOME" categorisation could fall into bidah like using terms in asmaa wa sifaat which are never used by salaf, or words that misrepresents an aspect or meaning of Allah's name. Short example is saying "Allah is in direction where there is no direction"...i remember Abu Zubair quoted something replying to Abu D*** and mentioned it there....

As for implying bidah for categorising tawheed into 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 then these categorisations have been done by Allah Himself as ulema explain...

------------------
Surah Al-Faatiha
------------------
1. In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

-------------------------------------
A: Tawheed Ar-Rubobiyah
-------------------------------------
2. All the praises and thanks be to Allâh, the Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns and All that exists).

------------------------------
B: Tawheed Asmaa wal Sifaat
------------------------------
3. the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

---------------------------------------------
C: Tawheed Al-Ulohiyyah / Tawheed ul Ibaadah
----------------------------------------------
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).



Also, some ulema such as ibn taymiyyah only categorised tawheed into 2, tawheed ur rubobiyyah and tawheed ul qasd wal ithbaat, so according to them dividing tawheed into 3 would be a bidah?

And Allamah shanqeeti said in his tafseer (Adwaaul Biyaan) that Tawheed ul ibadah is the other half to tawheed ul haakimyyah - meaning that it comes underneath it. Also, one of my sheikh when was asked about this categorising (tawheed ul haakimiyyah as a seprate category) said that there is no need for it as it was never done by salaf...however, after gaining some understanding in deen , i really do not see it a big deal as some of other participants rightly said that "I DOES NOT CHANGES THE WAY WE SEE TAWHEED"

I don't know what Shaikh al Islam Ibn Taimiyyah rahimahu Allah said about that

but the explaining of tawhid in that way (3) was done by scholars long before shaikh al Islam Ibn Taimiyyah rahimahu Allah was born.

as for explaning it into 4, I don't know if any scholar of the past categorized it into 4.

maybe you can do a research on it.

[Yasir]

Also, some ulema such as ibn taymiyyah only categorised tawheed into 2, tawheed ur rubobiyyah and tawheed ul qasd wal ithbaat, so according to them dividing tawheed into 3 would be a bidah?Didn't Imam Ibn Taymiyyah divide Tawhid as Tawhid al-Ma'rifah wal-Ithbaat and Tawhid al-Qasd wal Talab?

[abu khattab]

Didn't Imam Ibn Taymiyyah divide Tawhid as Tawhid al-Ma'rifah wal-Ithbaat and Tawhid al-Qasd wal Talab?

:) ....Jazakallahu khair...

[joefso]

incorrect

it all happened after the death of the 4 Khalifas radiyallahu anhum

one example is usool al fiqh, Al Shafi'i rahimahu ALlah was first to write in usool al fiqh.
and some say it was abu Yusuf who did (student of Imam Abu Hanifah rahimahu Allah)

and the 4 rightly guided khalifa's died long before that.

In the terminology of sharee’ah, bid’ah means something that has been introduced into the religion of Allaah that has no general or specific basis to support it.(such as divide tawhid!). Where fiqh sience of ahadith does...

[Abuz Zubair]

joefso,

In the terminology of sharee’ah, bid’ah means something that has been introduced into the religion of Allaah that has no general or specific basis to support it.(such as divide tawhid!).

This is absurd. Categorisation of tawheed has nothing to do with bid'a or not bid'a. It is like categorisation of Usul into four main ones, Quran, Sunnah, Ijma' and Qiyas. None would say that this categorisation is bid'a.

What is more important to point out is that those mushrikun who criticise this categorisation do so in order to expel Tawheed al-uluhiyya from tawheed altogether, in order that they be allowed to pray to other than Allah.

So ask yourself this question please (and I want a straight forward answer):

Do you believe that Allah is the only Lord?

Do you believe that Allah should be worshipped alone?

Do you believe that Allah is unique in His Names and Attributes?

This is what's important so please answer these questions.

[joefso]

yes ofcourse without a doubt. But RasoolAllaah never asked it to someone, never when he did send someone to invite them to Allaah.

[Abuz Zubair]

yes ofcourse without a doubt. But RasoolAllaah never asked it to someone, never when he did send someone to invite them to Allaah.

Whether invited or not, this is what they all had to come to, right?

[joefso]

Whether invited or not, this is what they all had to come to, right?

Yes, but who can do dawah better you(or whatever scholar) or prophet muhammad Sallaho Alayhi Wasalam and rightly guided khalifa? When Muhammad Sallaho Alayhi Wasalam came, shirk was in it worst form. Muhammad Sallaho Alayhi Wasalam did say go and propgate tawhid, but he didn't say go and divide it.. . If it was so good then why didn't he say, let's divide tawhid in three or four or 36... .


The books of the Sunna of the Prophet -- Allah bless and greet him -- overflow with the fact that the call of the Prophet -- Allah bless and greet him -- to the people unto Allah was in order that they witness that there is no God except Allah alone and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and in order that they repudiate idol-worship. One of the most famous illustrations of this is the narration of Mu`adh ibn Jabal when the Prophet -- Allah bless and greet him -- sent him to Yemen and said to him: "Invite them to the testimony that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah...." And it is narrated in five of the six books of authentic traditions, and Ibn Hibban declared it sound, that a beduin Arab reported the sighting of the new moon to the Prophet -- Allah bless and greet him -- and the latter ordered the people to fast without asking this man other than to confirm his testimony of faith.


Woe! Who says that the prophet sallaho alayhi wasalam made a mistake, but not calling people to to the tawhid al-uluhiyya of which they were ignorant - since tawhid al-rububiyya they knew already - and he should have said to Mu`adh: "Invite them to tawhid al-uluhiyya"; and he should have asked the beduin who had sighted the new moon of Ramadan: "Do you know tawhid al-uluhiyya?"

[abu hafs]

stop cutting and pasting from kabbani's site !
Abuz Zubair , i think you are wasting your time ,
The prophet did call to Uloohiyya as razi the Shaykhul Islam of the Asha'ris stated !
\
Razi said in tafsir of 10:31
"If it is asked to them about the controller of these things(mentioned in the verse) they will say Allah swt, this is proof the that they knew about Allah and admit it (that Allah was the sole controller of things mentioned in the verse) .They said about their worship of the idols, that it draws us closer to Allah and they are our intercessor with Allah and they knew that these idols cannot harm or benefit by themselves .?

Next Allah said to his messenger {فَقُلْ أَفَلاَ تَتَّقُون }

Meaning: Do u not fear Allah('s punishment) to set up partners with him in worship (Ma'budiyyah) after recognizing that all things good in dunya and the akhira that happen are from the mercy of Allah and his favour and recognizing that these idols neither benefit nor harm

Please get lost if ur plan is to waste our time by cutting and pasting from GF haddad and kabbani , dont play games with us , its very easy to know where u cut and paste crap from .

[abu hafs]

Tawheed al 'Uloohiyya is also referred as to as Tawheed al 'Ibaadah

وَلَقَدْ بَعَثْنَا فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ رَّسُولاً أَنِ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ وَاجْتَنِبُواْ الطَّاغُوت

And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taghut besides Allah).[16:36]

This is the call of the messengers ,when u state something in english with out using islamic terminology it obscures the reality . The prophets were not sent to make people believe in god , rather worship him , worship is more than just belief , its action due to belief in the heart .

[joefso]

did you leave your manners at home abu hafs? If you don't want to waste you time then don't reply. Why does it matter where I get my hadith from, it's about the context right, not where I get it from.

[joefso]

stop cutting and pasting from kabbani's site !
Abuz Zubair , i think you are wasting your time ,
The prophet did call to Uloohiyya as razi the Shaykhul Islam of the Asha'ris stated !
\
Razi said in tafsir of 10:31
"If it is asked to them about the controller of these things(mentioned in the verse) they will say Allah swt, this is proof the that they knew about Allah and admit it (that Allah was the sole controller of things mentioned in the verse) .They said about their worship of the idols, that it draws us closer to Allah and they are our intercessor with Allah and they knew that these idols cannot harm or benefit by themselves .?

Next Allah said to his messenger {فَقُلْ أَفَلاَ تَتَّقُون }

Meaning: Do u not fear Allah('s punishment) to set up partners with him in worship (Ma'budiyyah) after recognizing that all things good in dunya and the akhira that happen are from the mercy of Allah and his favour and recognizing that these idols neither benefit nor harm

Please get lost if ur plan is to waste our time by cutting and pasting from GF haddad and kabbani , dont play games with us , its very easy to know where u cut and paste crap from .

again, idols are not alive and never where alive. According to some beliefs some ppl stay alive in the grave. I don't understand how it's shirk, when you say to someone alife(physical) make dua for me, but when someone is in the grave and you ask them to make dua for you (to the prophet or martyr) it's shirk and associating partners with them

Yes, I said, according to some beliefs, I don't know what to believe exactly at the moment, regarding this issue. So perhaps It's best to say Allah knows best.

[joefso]

Tawheed al 'Uloohiyya is also referred as to as Tawheed al 'Ibaadah

وَلَقَدْ بَعَثْنَا فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ رَّسُولاً أَنِ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ وَاجْتَنِبُواْ الطَّاغُوت

And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taghut besides Allah).[16:36]

This is the call of the messengers ,when u state something in english with out using islamic terminology it obscures the reality . The prophets were not sent to make people believe in god , rather worship him , worship is more than just belief , its action due to belief in the heart .

no, prophet said "..no God but Allah". He didn't say talk about tawhid al-uluhiyya. And that text doesn't proof it refered to as tawhid al-uluhiyya.

B.T.W your translation isn't right:

016.036
YUSUFALI: For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).
PICKTHAL: And verily We have raised in every nation a messenger, (proclaiming): Serve Allah and shun false gods. Then some of them (there were) whom Allah guided, and some of them (there were) upon whom error had just hold. Do but travel in the land and see the nature of the consequence for the deniers!
SHAKIR: And certainly We raised in every nation a messenger saying: Serve Allah and shun the Shaitan. So there were some of them whom Allah guided and there were others against whom error was due; therefore travel in the land, then see what was the end of the rejecters.


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/016.qmt.html

[abubakr]

Joesfo are you the same guy who posts on yanabi forums the mushrik barelvi site?

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

no, prophet said "..no God but Allah". He didn't say talk about tawhid al-uluhiyya. And that text doesn't proof it refered to as tawhid al-uluhiyya.

La hawla wa-la quwwata illa billah. The Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam, called people to "la ilaha illallah". Do you know what "ilah" means in the Arabic language? It means ma'bud, or one who is worshipped. The word "uluhiyyah" comes from same root as the word "ilah", alif-lam-ha'. So to say that there is no "ilah" except Allah is precisely what is referred to as tawhid al-uluhiyyah, which was the da'wah of all of the Prophets and Messengers.

For some reason, there are people who can't understand this, and they think "la ilaha illallah" only means that there is no creator or provider or maintainer except Allah, yet they neglect the issue of 'ibadah (worship). Because of this misconception, that la ilaha illallah means there is no creator but Allah, and that this is tawhid itself, the 'ulama referred to this kind of tawhid as tawhid ar-rububiyyah, and explained that although it is part of tawhid - and it is the aspect of tawhid that the vast majority of mushrikun believed in, according to many ayat of the Qur'an - it is not enough to enter a person into iman until he accepts along with that the sole right of Allah to be worshipped, which is the tawhid of the Prophets and Messengers that they called the people to, to worship Allah and reject taghut (false objects of worship), and this is the meaning of la ilaha illallah. Also called tawhid al-uluhiyyah.

If you still want to argue, just tell me where is the actual word "tawhid" mentioned in the Qur'an? It is not even there. Are you now going to say that it is bid'ah to use the word "tawhid"?

B.T.W your translation isn't right:

016.036
YUSUFALI: For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).
PICKTHAL: And verily We have raised in every nation a messenger, (proclaiming): Serve Allah and shun false gods. Then some of them (there were) whom Allah guided, and some of them (there were) upon whom error had just hold. Do but travel in the land and see the nature of the consequence for the deniers!
SHAKIR: And certainly We raised in every nation a messenger saying: Serve Allah and shun the Shaitan. So there were some of them whom Allah guided and there were others against whom error was due; therefore travel in the land, then see what was the end of the rejecters.

Subhanallah, now you are basing your argument on linguistic semantics from (largely inaccurate) translations. Forget the translation alright? The word used in the ayat is "u'budullaha" meaning "worship Allah". "u'bud" is the imperative form of the word 'ibadah or worship. It does not simply mean "serve".

[abu hafs]

"..no God but Allah
ilaah does not mean "God" , it means anything that is worshipped . Quran mentions that Desires are an ilaah and many other things . The correct meaning of the kalima is " There is none truly worthy of worship except Allah" .
Uluhiyya is derived from the word ilaah .



again, idols are not alive and never where alive.

Wrong ! This is a fundamental error
ALL IDOLS are IDOLS OF RIGHTEOUS MEN ,They were alive and now dead .
Lata , 'uzza , manata , Krishna , Mary , Jesus all are forms of RIGHTEOUS MEN who were worshipped . They were diefied after their death .


According to some beliefs some ppl stay alive in the grave
So these "some ppl" were buried alive ?,
so the companions buried the prophet alive?
Is that what you are saying ..cant u see the contradiction ?
The live in the grave is the life of the barzakh , they have no connection with us in any way except what the texts clearly mention.



Why does it matter where I get my hadith from, it's about the context right, not where I get it from.
Because its from a site that has an agenda , because its mostly mistranslated , because GF Haddad is the author .


B.T.W your translation isn't right:
No mine (actually Muhsin Khans) is more accurate , urs is way off . Actually the whole verse is translated by the 3 are innaccurate and does not convey fully what is intended .

Heres what a convert to Islam said about tawheed..Reflect ..May Allah guide us to what he loves

After months of reading, talking with people, and a lot of soul searching, there was one event that I consider to be the determining factor in my becoming Muslim. I was standing in my son’s room trying to pray. I had a book on Islam opened to the “how to pray” section. I was standing there in conflict with myself. I was not used to praying directly to God. All of my life I was taught to pray to Jesus, who would then tell God my prayer (or something like that). I was so scared that I was doing something wrong. I didn’t want Jesus mad at me. At that moment, it hit me like a tidal wave. Did I really think that God would be upset at me for wanting to get closer to Him? Did I really believe that Jesus would be upset with me for trying to get closer to God? Isn’t that what he wants me to do? God knows my intent. To this day, I believe it was God talking to me-that is how powerful the feeling and voice inside my head was. What did I have to fear?? How could I NOT convert to Islam? At that moment, I started crying and crying. It was what I needed to hear. I knew at that time that I had to convert to Islam. It felt right and nothing else mattered.

[abu hafs]

{ ٱللَّهُ لا إِلَـٰهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ لَيَجْمَعَنَّكُمْ
} المعبود الذي لا تنبغي العبودة إلا له هو، الذي له عبادة كل شيء .

<!-- / message --><!-- controls --> The worshipped, except to whom no worship is allowed , the one who has the worship of everything, ( Translated by muhaqiq two posts below)

This above is from the site site (http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=1&tSoraNo=4&tAyahNo=87&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0) you refer to and trust .This is what Imaam Tabari , one who died more than 1000 years ago in his tafsir about "ilaah" of the verse 4:87

As you can clearly see Tabari defines the verse solely based on 'Ibaadah , nothing about belief , this is what we are saying that you should understand that the prophets were sent to call people to single out Allah in their worship not just to believe in him.

[Abuz Zubair]

joefso,

The Prophet SallAlahu 'alayhi wa-sallam did not divide Usul al-Fiqh into Quran, Sunnah, Ijma' and Qiyas.

Is that a bid'a?

[WM]

Bismillah

المعبود الذي لا تنبغي العبودة إلا له هو، الذي له عبادة كل شيء وطاعة كل طائع.
The worshipped, the One who no worship is allowed except to Him, the one who has the worship of everything, and the obedience of everything that obeys.

[ansari]

This is absurd. Categorisation of tawheed has nothing to do with bid'a or not bid'a. It is like categorisation of Usul into four main ones, Quran, Sunnah, Ijma' and Qiyas. None would say that this categorisation is bid'a.

What is more important to point out is that those mushrikun who criticise this categorisation do so in order to expel Tawheed al-uluhiyya from tawheed altogether, in order that they be allowed to pray to other than Allah.

So ask yourself this question please (and I want a straight forward answer):

Do you believe that Allah is the only Lord?

Do you believe that Allah should be worshipped alone?

Do you believe that Allah is unique in His Names and Attributes?

This is what's important so please answer these questions.

Assalamu Alaikum,

Jazakallah Khair. That cleared up the matter.

[anam]

lol had to bump this thread back up..

Funny how they challenge
type a few posts
then dissapear!