Need help refuting shia accusations

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

salamu alaykum

below is from a shia i need help refuting it. Im compiling together some arguments against the rafidah

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UMAR Bin Khattab

Sahih bukhari 57:7 Narrated by ibn Umar
We used to compare the people as to who was better during the lifetime of Allah's apostle. We used to regard abu bakr as the best, then Umar, and then Uthman.

Further on let us look at some more hadiths
Sahih Muslim In The Book of the Merits of the Companions in The chapter on the merits of Umar, as well as Al Bukhari in his Sahih The book of Faith in The chapter of thesuperiority of the believers in the performance of deeds.
From abu Said Al Khudri: The prophet of Allah said : "When i was sleeping i saw some people presented to me they wore shirts some of which reached up to the breast some were shorter than that.And then Umar bin khattab was presented to me and he was wearing a shirt which was dragging behind. They said : How doyou interpret that O messenger of Allah? he said Religion.

So far we see that Umar was considered the second best after the Prophet Allahumma sali ala muhammadin wa ala ali muhammed. And then this dream indicates that Umar has a great understanding of the religion based on the inerpretation attributed to the Prophet. The sunnis want us to believe that Umar has such a good character and such a vast knowledge over the religion so much that his cloths were dragging while others in the dream had shorter than that so therefore Umar was amongst the most scholarly of the scholars.

In Bukhari in thebook ofknowledge in the chapter on the superiority of knowledge and also in sahih muslim in book of merits of thecompanions in the chapter on the merits of umar: From Ibn Umar who said : I heard the prophet of Allah say : while i was sleeping I was given a jug of milk from which i drank until I observed its wetness coming through my nails. I gave the remainder to Umar bin khattab. The people asked How did you interpret that O Prophet of Allah? He said KNOWLEDGE

SubhanAllah in the two sahihs the merits of Umar are really being worked up. So much that you cannot help to see why sunnis get so offended when we charge some of the sahabah with injustice. Now we see the importance of believing that Umar bin khattab is amongst the most knowledgable and he is amongst the best of the sahabah. Let us please look further into more hadiths.

The Book of the beginning of Creation in the chapter on description of satan and his forces. al bukhari reported a hadith in his sahih aswell narrated by muslim in book of merits of companions in the chapter on the merits of Umar from Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas who said : "Umar sought permission to visit the Prophet of Allah while the latter was talking to some Qurayshi women. They were crowding him and raising their voices when Umar sought permission they stood up hastening to put on their veils. The prophet ofAllah gave him permission and began to laugh. Umar said Did Allah cause you to laugh so much O prophet of Allah? He repliesd i was surpriseed at these women who were with me. When they heard your voice they grabbed their veils. Umar said : But it is more proper they fear you O Prophet of Allah. Then he said O enemioes of yourselves do you fear me and not the Prophet of Allah. They replied yes you are harsher and more severe than the Prophet of Allah. Then Allah's Prophet said: By He in whose hand is my soul! Satan will never meet you traveling on a road except that he will seek a path from you.

I have heard this hadith qouted many times. In salafi lectures the Shaykh or student of knowledge would cite this hadith to us to show the path of Umar bin Khattab. Look at how the women had more TAQWA when Umar arrived then when they were with the Prophet salalahu alayhi wa salam. AND see how the Prophet said that there is no road that Umar is upon but the shaytaan will flee .. Keep this in mind please. Look at all these attributes. I want you to memorize this attribute and then read on. We will together discover why these are myths inshaAllah.

Now let us look into an issue that occured according to the Sahih about Umar bin khattab and his great knowledge and his religious present that made women veil properly.
In The Book of Menstruation in The Chapter on Tayammum A man came to Umar and said. I have become ritually impure and cannot find water. Umar said do not pray. Whereupon Ammar said. Do you not recall O commander of the faithful that you and I were on a compaign and we both became ritually impure and couldnt find water. As for that you did not prayed. But I rolled in the dust and then prayed. The prophet then said: Itwould have sufficed for you to have struck the ground with your hands and then blown upon them then wiped your face and hands with them.Umar was not pleased with that.

This is where I want everybody to please contemplate over everything that was cited before this hadith. Think deeply at what was said before.. Now look at this hadith. In which Umar(who was present according to the hadith at the time when the Prophet allowed the rolling on the ground to purify oneselves) goes against the Quran.. and disobeys the Prophet and tells someone not to pray and when reminded he was displeased.. I remember sitting in my local masjid not shia it was sunni as i used to be sunni. I remember reading this hadith and i tried my best to ignore it. This man is praised as having been possessing so much knowledge according to the dream. Not only that he is considered the second best.. after the Prophet. This man is suppose to be a mountain of ILM but yet he rejects the Quran in this stance and contradicts the Prophet and was displeased when he was reminded.

According to ahluh sunnah wal jammah in the hadith had there been another prophet after the Prophet it would have been Umar! SubhanAllah look at all this that we see and hear in praise of Umar. And the exageration that women veiled when he approached them yet they didnt do it with the Prophet. And the Prophet did not command them to veil. Then regarding this hadith Umar turns his back on the Quran (which at a later time he says the QURAN IS SUFFICIENT FOR US and prevents the Prophet from writing a will) but clearly contradicts this book.

When the muslims thought they would perform the hajj and this man was present but the enemies of Allah had prevented them. He asked the Prophet.. arent you truely the Prophet.. .. And Umar explained that the Prophet promised that theyd make hajj. The prophet replied that he did but he did not say when this would occur.

Now let us do justice for i do not want to be unjust. An explanation from a salafi brother was that Umar met to say that (arent you really the Prophet) meaning we are muslims your the prophet we have rights to hajj.. Ok im being just.. but what happends after this? The Prophet tells him that he never said when they would be able to do hajj but it will occur.

So that happends and lets be just lets assume the salafi brother was right.....but then Umar is not pleased with this JUST LIKE HE WAS NOT PLEASED WITH THE AYAH OF TAYAMMUM! Now he goes to Abu bakr.. and repeats the same thing.. and Abu bakr says to obey the Prophet and accept what he gives..

SubhanAllah we are told that this man is the mightiest of men . The kufar fear him. The women veil appropriately infront of him but not the Prophet. His knowledge is of the greatest of all the sahabah and then we see these hadiths. SubhanAllah... Wallahi I am not going to take Umar as my amir .. Never anymore I have seen these lies. And I did do justice in investigating but I have no more excuse for the belief the sunnis. We must judge with fair minds with hearts not harden so that we may do true justice. Let us investigate these hadiths and not say.. that So and so shaykh says all these hadiths are 100% sahih so accept them. This even leads sunni as myself used to do.. to break our fast at sunset instead of NIGHT like the Quran. Why? Because the hadith is sahih so we must accept it. This is the sunni slogan. So this is a message to the muslims and in particular the sunnis. I ask you to please study and have an open mind to judge fairly. Be not of those unjust when dealing with these issues. May Allah guide all of us to the path of the Quran and the AHLUH BAYT like its mentioned in Sahih muslim. AMEEN




ALLAHUMMA SALI ALA MUHAMMADIN WA ALA ALI MUHAMMED

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

Audhu billahi min ash shaytaani ar rajeem

Allahumma sali ala muhammadin wa ala ali muhammed


"Then as to those by whom you take pleasure give them their appointed dowers" 6:24

Ibn Mas'ud said: The Holy Prophet allowed us tomarry a woman for a limited period in exchange for a piece of cloth' Then he recited the verse: "O you who believe make not unlawful the pure things which Allah has made lawful for you"5:87 [Sahih Bukhari vol3 p85 Sahih muslim p1022 Book of Nikah hadith 1404]

Jabir and Salmah bin Akwa said: 'it was announced publicly that theHoly Prophet had allowed us to contract mut'ah marriage.' [Sahih Bukhari vol3 p163 Sahih muslim 1024 Book of Nikah hadith 1406 Musnad of Ahmad vol3 p405]

Sabrah al-Juhani said: "The holy prophet allowed us to contract mut'ah marriage. Accordingly i married a woman belonging to the tribe of Bani Amir. I stayed with her for three days. Then the Holy prophet said that someone who had such women with him should let them go.'[Sahih muslim p1024 Book ofNikah hadith 1406 sunan Bayhaqui vol7 p202-203]

Abu Sa'id al-Khidri said: 'We used to contract mut'ah marriage in exchange for a piece of cloth.' [Musnad Tayalasi hadith 637]

Jabir said: 'We used to contract Mut'ah marriage in exchange for a handful of dates and flour during the days of the Holy Prophet, abu bakr, and Umar. It was only during the last days of the caliphate of Umar that it so happend that amr ibn hurayth contracted mut'ah marriage with a woman and she became pregnant. When the report of this incident reached Umar he banned muta marriage.'[Al Musannaf by Abdur Razzaq vol7 p496 chapter on mutah]


This is the claim of the shia that umar bin khattab banned mutah. Ahluh sunnah wal jammah do not accept this and say that it was banned in the time of the Prophet. But if one takes aclose look after reviewing the contradicting hadiths then look at what the sahihs say about umar bin khattab.

It is said that Umar suggested that women should wear the veils.. and thus Allah revealed the ayah pertaining to veiling women. It is said that Umar was the one who wasnt pleased with the Prophet's answer of not doing hajj. This man as was shown in other threads.. disagreed with the ayah pertaining to tayamumm andwhen reminded of it being permissible he was not pleased. When the Prophet spoke to the dead kufar in the well this man umar pulled the Prophet by his shirt and asked him is he speaking to ones who do not hear. Many other things it seems as if Umar was incharge of the religion (audhu billa). It is no surprise that there is a hadith pertaining to Umar hearing about the pregnancy of a woman through mutah and therefore ban mutah all together. Many times we wonder as to why Umar was not pleased with the rulings of Allah and His Messenger.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

Audhu billahi min ash shaytaani ar rajeem

Allahumma sali ala muhammadin wa ala ali muhammed



[B]Lo! as for My slaves, you have NO way into them except the wrong-doers who follow you. And verily for all such people, hell is the promised place. 15:42-43

And we did not send any messenger, unless he should be obeyed by Allah's authority." (\4:64)

"Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah." ( 4:80)

"....and obey not from among them a sinner or an ungrateful one." ( 76:24)


But no by thy Lord! They can have no (real) Faith until they make thee judge in ALL disputes between them and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions but accept them with the fullest conviction. (4:65)

Your companion ( Prophet) does not err/wander, nor is he deceived (53:2)

"And most certainly you are on sublime morality (exalted standard of character)." ( 68:4)

O you who believe! why do you say that which you do not act? It is most hateful in the sight of Allah that you say that which you do not act. (61:2-3)

And there are many more ayah that clear the Prophet and all other prophets from sins. According to sunnis though the Prophet can make minor sins or small sins unintentionally ect. We know that shaytan is out to seek us so that he canmislead us. so him and his devils (shayateen) whispers into our ears.

In Sahih bukhari vol1 p143 and sahih muslim vol1 p204 and Musnad of Imam Ahmed vol2 p 298

Abu Hurayra said: "The Prophet offered one of hispryaers and said: The shaytan came upon trying his best to interrupt my prayer. Allah helped me that I could throttle him. I wanted to tie him to a pole that you would see him in the morning, but i remembered Solomon saying : "My Lord! Do thou forgive me and grant me a kingdom which is not fit for being ineherited by anyone after me 38:35

As mentioned by my Habib Sharafudden al musawi that all muslims knew that the shaytan was distracted by the birth of theholy e Prophet.

In Sahih bukhari vol1 p78 and sahih muslim vol1 p153

Abu hurayra said:"When shaytan heard the adhan from any muslim he would flee scaredly and would pass gas in terror so that he may not hear'

We the shia believe in the complete infallibility of the Prophet while we see the opinion of the sunnis. But look at these odd hadiths. How could the shaytan even attempt to bother him during his salah when he is so scaired to hear the beautiful adhan?

Then its mentioned in sahih bukhari vol1 p 145 and sahih muslim vol1 p215

Abu Hurayra narrates: "The prophet Muhammed offered one of the day prayers I think it was asr in two sections instead of four and he finished it then he stood up to a piece of wood was infront of the mosque and put his handon it. Among the people inthe masjid were abu bakr and umar but they feared to ask the Prophet about that. The hurried people left themosque and asked has the prayer been lessened. Someone asked the prophet: "did you forget or lessen the prayer" the Prophet said I didnt forget and the prayer wasnt lessened. The man said "yes you forgot" the prophet offered two additional rakahs made tasleem and said takbir and prostrated for forgetfulness.

We see this tradition cannot be accepted and again i qoute Sharafuddin al musawi
Prophet said: I didnt forget and that prayer wasnt lessened" so how would it be fore him after that to declare that he forgot? Suppose that he was not infallible in forgetting but he was infallible not to obstinate and imprudent in his saying if they were in contradictory to the reality this was certain amongt all muslims.

Abu Hurayra was confused in this tradition and his sayings were different. Sometimes he said:"The Prophet Muhammed led us in one of the day prayers either dhur or asr He was doubt between them another time he said : The prophet led us in the asr prayer . As if he was certain. In the third he said While I was offering the dhur prayer with the Prophet. These traditions were in al bukhari and muslims sahihs. Those who explained the sahihs were confused to a degree led them into affectedness and they took upon themselves what they couldnt bear in order to defend these traditions as they did when they refuted the opinion of az zuhri when he confirmed that thul yadayn and thush shamalayn was the same man.


Another criticism of this hadith as mentioned by the honorable scholar is

The tradition showed that the Prophet left his place for praying. Stood up and put his hand on a piece of wood infront of the masjid. The hurried people left the mosque and said .. was the prayer lessened. Thul yadayn said to the Prophet "did you forget or lessen the prayer' the prophet said 'i didnt forget nor lessen the prayer' He said to the Prophet'yes you forgot' then the Prophet said to his companions 'was he right' they said yes he was. The shaykh then explains that the Prophet left the prayer after forgetting and moved around and then he went back and completed two rakahs. The shaykh explains his two rakah he did before was invalidated because of his forgetfulness so he should have prayed the entire prayer over.


This is why we dont accept these false traditions and many traditions narrated by abu hurayra. But due to them being in the sunnis sahihs they accept them and this slanders the Prophet and makes him appear to be infallible as opposed to the ayahs already mentioned. Not to mention the hadith in sahih bukhari where Aisha says that the character of the Prophet is the QURAN.


Now to the story of the blind man coming and who turned his back.


He (a certain Umayad chieftain) frowned and turned away (while he was with the Prophet). Because there came to him the blind man (Ibn Um-Maktoom).
And what would make you know, but that, per chance, he (the blind man) might grow in purity, Or become reminded so that the reminder should profit him? (the blind man) As for him (the Umayad chieftain) who considers himself free from need (rich),
To him do you address yourself?
And it is not necessary for you (to preach that arrogant chieftain) if he does not purify himself.
And as to him who comes to you striving hard,
And he fears (Allah),
To him (his question) you did not pay attention?
Nay! surely this is (this chapter) a reminder. 80:1-11

As you can see in the brackets of the first ayah shows the opinion of the shia. While the sunnis are of the opinion that the Prophet turned his back on the blindman. What is odd is remember to note this that according to AHLUH SUNNAH WAL JAMMAH (THE PROPHET IS ONLY INFALLIBLE WHEN DELIVING THE MESSAGE AND TEACHING THE RELIGION)

Keep this in mind. Many sunnis use these ayahs of the quran to show that the Prophet does commit mistakes. Now ponder over this we see that the sunnis say the Prophet was only infallible in teaching the religion and delivering the message. THIS IS SO? Then brothers and sisters of ahluh sunnah waljammah.. what was the Prophet doing in these ayahs? was he not disputing with the arrogant men ..teaching them the RELIGION. He was TEACHING THEM GIVING THEM DAWAH....THAT MEANS HE WAS INFALLIBLE BECAUSE HE WAS TEACHING THE DIN SO HE WOULD NOT TURN HIS BACK ON A MAN WHO WAS WANTING TO LEARN ABOUT THE RELIGION.

THEREFORE using the logic of the sunnis they contradicted themselves.. Audhu billa. Please shia brothers and sisters add more to this and brothers and sisters of the sunniway please comment inshaAllah and let us be mature with our post and not send lanats.. or whatever let us just have a good dialogue so the thread is not filled up with nonsense.

masalama

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

Now to menhaj assunah,ibin taymiyya say in his books menhaj assuunnah;

و لم يكن كذلك علي فان كثيرا من الصحابة و التابعين كانوا يبغضونه و يسبونه و يقاتلونه
منهاج السنة ج 7 ص 137 ، 138

"...because KATHIRAN (many) from the sahaba and at-tabi3iyn hated,cursed and fighted against him(ali as.)"

http://arabic.islamicweb.com/Books/taimiya...365&id=3441

http://arabic.islamicweb.com/Books/taimiya...365&id=3442

We thank ibin taymiyya for showing us that many of the sahaba and at-tabi3iyn were
hypocrites according to the saying of rasulallah (sa.)

"only a mu`min will love Ali(as.) and he who hates him is a hypocrite

SAHIH MUSLIM

حدثنا أبو بكر بن أبي شيبة. حدثنا وكيع وأبو معاوية، عن الأعمش. ح وحدثنا يحيى بن يحيى (واللفظ له) أخبرنا أبو معاوية، عن الأعمش، عن عدي بن ثابت، عن زر، قال: قال علي :
والذي فلق الحبة وبرأ النسمة! إنه لعهد النبي الأمي صلى الله عليه وسلم إلى أن لا يحبني إلا مؤمن ، ولا يبغضني إلا منافق ) ـ صحيح مسلم ج 1

Rasulallah (sa.) said that he who hates Ali (as.) is hypocrite,and ibin taymiyya tells us in his minhaj that KATHIRAN (many) from the sahaba AND tabi3iyn hated and cursed Ali(a.s)

So when you say why we curse those "sahaba" , i ask you is it haram to curse the hypocrite and those who were cursed by Allah???

Mustadrak al-hakim

and rasulallah (sa.) said who hates ali hated me and he who loves ali loves me!
IN A SAHIH HADITH مستدرك الحاكم ج 3 ح 4668

We again thank ibin taymiyya for showing us that many of the sahaba and tabi3iyn hated rasulallah(sa.)

Mustadrak al-hakim

Rasulallah (sa.) said;

"he who curses Ali(as.) cursed me"

مستدرك الحاكم ج 3 ح 4615 Hadith is Sahih

We again thank ibin taymiyya for showing us that many of the sahaba and tabi3iyn cursed
Rasulallah!

[Abu Jalfrezi]

Was suprised to see no responses to above to help the brother and benefit others as well, from the many people here well grounded in knowledge.

I have more claims that need addressing to add.

__________________________________________________ ______

Prophet’s Ahl Al-Bayt According to Sahih Muslim… the wives of the prophet are not from his household. Read in muslim...

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/031.smt.html#031.5923



Fatima (as) Bizza-to-Mini- Another narration from Sahih Muslim. With the Prophet saying. “Fatima is part of me... tortures me what tortures her"

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/031.smt.html#031.6000




Ali (as) didn't like Umar Ali didn't like Umar to come to his Home (where is the love between the companions that you talk about?!!) read the narration in Sahih-Al Bukhari

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.546



Fatima (as)’s anger Imam Ali buried Fatima at night without informing Abu Baker. Read the narration in Al Bukhari

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.546



Imamat The Prophet says that after him will be 12 caliphs all from Quraish. Read the narration in Sunan Abu-Dauwood.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/036.sat.html#036.4266

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/020.smt.html#020.4480 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/020.smt.html#020.4480)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>



Fatima (as) got angry Fatima got angry with Abu Baker and stopped talking to him until she died.. Read the narration in Al- Bukhari

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.546

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum,

after ramadan brother il show you some responses to these. Very good responses so sabr akhi and ill show you.

[Um Abdullah M.]

I didn't see this before
I am not good at refuting rafidis
but insha Allah maybe JayshAllah can help, and bro ahl assunnah also said he will help you insha Allah.

by the way, you should tell those rafidis to take a break in ramadan and to continue your debate after Ramadan, if they don't just let them take to themselves and continue after ramadan, that is if you are debating with them.

[Abu Hafsa]

Whats the reply to the following Shia Claims:


The Prophet(pbuh) used to speak to the dead when he used to visit the graveyards. Likr AshiqShah has said Those who are slain in th way of Allah(swt) are not dead but are alive and Allah provides sustenance for them. The Shias thus consider The Prophet(pbuh) and the Imams'(as) as alive. You may have notices the fellow Shias travelling to Medinah,Karbala,Kadhmain,Damascus, Sammara,Mashad for Ziarat


jazakallah Khayr.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

Imamat The Prophet says that after him will be 12 caliphs all from Quraish. Read the narration in Sunan Abu-Dauwood.


Yes, "from Quraysh", which is broader than just referring to the Ahl al-Bayt.

The hadith clearly states in various authentic narrations that the Ummah will be strong and united until such time as 12 imams from Quraysh have ruled over them whom they united upon.

If you count all of the imams of the Muslims upon whose bay'ah the general body of the Muslims agreed from the time of Abu Bakr until the time that the Ummah split and started to become weak, you'll find that they are 12! The khulafa' ar-rashidun plus those of Banu Umayyah upon whose rule the Muslims united. Then they fell apart and Banul-Abbas took over and there was massacres and fitnah wallahul-musta'an.

[Abdullah ibn Adam]

And yes the sahabah did sometimes have arguments and disagreements with each other; this is human and happens to everyone, even people in the same family, husbands and wives, friends, relatives etc. Nothing that the shi'ah can bring in our sources indicates that there was a level of animosity between Ali and Umar or Fatimah and Abu Bakr that went to the extent of takfir, though.

['Abd al-Kareem]

Tell the idiot rafidi:

1. Prove that he (صلى الله عليه وسلم) spoke to them. There is the Sunnah du'as, beginning with the Salams and so on. He did not have conversations with the dead.

2. What's your excuse for making sujood to graves?

3. What's your excuse for making du'a to the dead?

_______

Note: I read the first post by brother Madarijas-Salikeen (aka Ahlus-Sunnah). These rafidi dogs - may Allah destroy them - and their injustice towards the Sahabah (RAA)....Subhan Allah.

The idiot is speaking about hadith and 'sahih' as if he has a clue what on earth he's talking about. Coming to conclusions and making decisions based on what? Does this clown even read Arabic? A rafidi telling us to look to the texts and not what our 'imams' say, LOL. Ain't that ironic.

Shi'a rafidah are truly vermin.