Muslims in the West: Where are We Going? - Yasir Qadhi

[Abu_Zahid]

For the first time...A united effort from the Islamic societies of London


Muslims in the West: Where are We Going?
A step towards formulating a realistic vision


By Shaykh Yasir Qadhi
(Also featuring a video message from Shaykh Salman Al-Oadah)

Thursday 22nd March 2007
5:30pm - 8:30pm

London Muslim Centre (LMC)
46 Whitechapel Road,
London,
E1

Nearest Tube: Whitechapel & Aldgate East

Tickets: £5 when bought in advance (Contact your local London uni Isoc)
£7 on the door

[Abuz Zubair]

Finally! Someone's seen the light!

Someone please record it for us?

[Turaabie]

Subhaan-Allaah... Why can't talks be held @ an earlier time! So it's easier for those who have to travel.

[Abuz Zubair]

How safe is it for sisters to travel nowadays via tube and trains?

[Abu_Zahid]

Btw I forgot to mention...the money raised from the event is going towards building an extension for Masjid at Tawheed (Leyton) and one other thing which I cant remember lol..I'll have to take another look at the poster when in uni 2moro inshaAllah!

I'll try n speak to LMC when I am down that area some time this week inshaAllah and ask them if they are arranging to record it already..if not inshaAllah I will try and arrange something, altho I have some deadlines on that date so not 100% sure if I will be able to make the event!! Make dua i get my work done :D really wanna go inshaAllah

If someone else can, please do try and record it regardless of what u hear from me..just to be on the safe side inshaAllah

[Turaabie]

How safe is it for sisters to travel nowadays via tube and trains?

From my personal experience, i think they're safe enough. I don't get any hassle etc. Al-HamduLillaah. Though it would be better to have a Mahraam with you, to be on the safe side, not everyone is fortunate enough!!

Thats why it would be nice if the talks were held at an earlier time.

[Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri]

That is bit of an awkward time, i guess, considering the traffic at that time, and is it in the congestion charging zone? ermm...

[al-gharib]

i saw a post relating to this tlak on another forum aswj. al-muhajiroun forum..
they were asking weather they should attend to correct them publically or not as it will mean increasing the numbers of ahl ul-biddah.. our very own abu_dhurrah posted that. there ..
why would this confrence be of biddah or deviancy anyway.. surly unless you go there you cant judge

[Abu Ilyas]

Sounds interesting. But I think an important and ambitious project like that needs a panel of distinguished speakers...nevertheless i would definately like to hear a recording.

AI

[Abu wakee]

Please, can some one record it. Especially sh. Salman's bit.

[Abu_Zahid]

That is bit of an awkward time, i guess, considering the traffic at that time, and is it in the congestion charging zone? ermm...

It is not in the congestion charging zone. Traffic/parking is a slight issue tho around there, so unless ur coming from far, i would advise taking the tube inshaAllah!

[Abuz Zubair]

i saw a post relating to this tlak on another forum aswj. al-muhajiroun forum..
they were asking weather they should attend to correct them publically or not as it will mean increasing the numbers of ahl ul-biddah.. our very own abu_dhurrah posted that. there ..
why would this confrence be of biddah or deviancy anyway.. surly unless you go there you cant judge
If these guys start causing problems... I think they should be taught a lesson they never forget.

[gag order]

what do you propose ?

[Yasir]

Thursday 22nd March 2007
5:30pm - 8:30pmWas anyone able to attend and record it for us?
If so, please do upload it.

[Umm Ahmed]

Or notes or just a summary .

[Abu_Zahid]

Unforunately I was unable to attend..however, I spoke to one of the brothers organising it, and he said that they video recorded the whole thing and it will be out on DVD soon inshaAllah. I asked when the DVD would be ready and released, but he did not know at the time.

So inshaAllah we'll get the talk sooner or later :)

[Umm Ahmed]

This was passed on to me.

Part one --- http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=BEB47CC06243E590

Part two--- http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=57D0356353293F5F

[Niqaabis]

As salaam 'alaikum warahmatullaah

The 2 videos shown at the event can be watched here

Sheikh Salmaan al-'Awdah

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrlMb-x4AVc

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVDXwMDJHO0


Video of Interviews With Muslims & Non-Muslims

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNukBzteEns

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luZRx9geywc

Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NvBk0L-f00

courtesy of Awakening Visions

baarak Allaahu feekum

Wa salaamu 'alaikum

[Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri]

jazakamullahu khayran

[Fajr]

Jazaakillaahu khayran for the video! I only had 10mins of Sh. al-'Awdah's lecture so alhamdulillah now I get to hear all of it

[Turaabie]

Coolness. Jazzaakillaahu Khayraa'!

[Fajr]

This is the whole video recording of the event incl. introductions/1st speech, Yasir Qadhi's main talk and sh. Salman al-'Awdah's... as well as all interviews carried out at Kings College University

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=4238F4A06D5E952E

[Abuz Zubair]

JK for this... but I would really like us all to discuss Yasir Qadhi's lecture... he raises some very important issues.

It would be nice to hear everyone's thoughts on what he had to say.

[knowrass]

i just finished watching the whole lecture of yasir qadhi last night and i thought it was excellent. i highly recommend all "salafis" to watch it in shaa Allaah.

abuz zubair, some people will argue (regarding hijrah) that even if there are, let's say 25 million muslims in the west alone: "how many of them are actually practicing?! a minority! thus they would be able to do hijrah to certain parts of the world, unlike the majority who aren't practicing and want to stay in the west!"

so according to that, the hijrah fatwa still stands for them. how should we respond to that?

jazaak Allaah.

[Abuz Zubair]

Well, this is a typical Salafi way of thinking... think about the individual and hell with the community who might need you.

The best thing that could be said is what Yasir said. Those who want to go are the ones who SHOULD stay... it is those who want to stay that should go!

Because those who want to go certainly have this religious zeal, enthusiasm and concern for the deen, and it is precisely people like these that are needed for two major reasons by any minority:

a) To increase the Islamic influence and help preserve the faith of the minority, and;

b) To increase the number of practising people, because for minorities, quantity is as significant is quality.

Besides, even if we say that all the practising people should leave, practically speaking this will never happen anyway.

Salafi problem is too much fantasising about what would ideally be possible than what is really happening and what will actually happen.

They will eventually realise that they have been dreaming about hijra for decades, and yes, although, many of the middle class Salafis managed to pack their bags and leave, the majority of the practising people, who are working class are STILL here. And guess what? Because their minds were stuck outside of their countries, their lives remained stagnant. They neither achieved anything in the countries they are living in, nor did they manage to make hijra to another country.

So the message is: Open up your eyes now and realise you are not going anywhere. This is where you will have to weave your dreams, and this is the reality, no matter how sad or shocking it may be.

[abu_ibrahim]

Well, this is a typical Salafi way of thinking... think about the individual and hell with the community who might need you.

Thats very true. When the Tsunami happened and it killed 167,000 Indonesians, most them in Aceh which is 97% Muslim. Everyone was making Dua for the dead, but the Salafi's at SalafiTalk were only making Dua for the few hundred Salafi community in Aceh.

[knowrass]

jazaak Allaah abuz zubair. some people argue though, that what yaasir said about staying here in the west and trying to be the best muslim we can be and past that on to our kids etc. IS like being a vegetable. you know, practice islaam, go to school/work, go home, eat, sleep... i mean i've personally always thought that should be our main goal, but when i discuss this issue of our aims and goals with people i know, they say that we must be doing something more for the ummah. they do not know what we should exactly be doing but they "want to work for the ummah". so my question is: what are the other things that we should be doing here as minorities that would differentiate us from the other vegetables that did hijrah (no offence to anyone!)?

[Abuz Zubair]

I am surprised that someone can actually suggest that we have more to do in Muslim countries than here.

Anyone who has lived in Muslim countries knows that it is difficult to do any sort of religious, political, social or charitable work in such countries. It is difficult, and indeed, dangerous to even try to rid some of the ills in the society, such as racism or nationalism.

Back in the West, we have 101 issues to deal with, and with every issue we have the freedom and the opportunity to tackle such issues. We have the schooling and education of our children to worry about. We have finances to worry about. We have the integration issues to worry about. We have our own social issues to worry about, and the good thing is that a person can actually join the various projects and do something positive without having the fear of being kidnapped by the government or something. We have the freedom to run political campaigns for Chechnya, Kashmir, or Muslims detained without due trial. You cannot do any of this in a Muslim country without the fear of being kidnapped by someone or the other.

Moreover, even if there was some freedom available for a person to bring about social change in a Muslim country, the population would not be receptive to someone who is from abroad. Our people back home our very cynical towards those who come from the West, anyway. We simply do NOT fit in. I am not saying we fit in the West either, but my point is that that's where we fit in the best...

[juwairiyah]

Assalamo'alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh

We simply do NOT fit in

why bro ? I think those who live in West themselves can't fit in with them as he/she has been brought up in an entirely different society and culture Allahualam

[Abuz Zubair]

This is exactly my point.

[juwairiyah]

Assalamo'alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh

But then if no one is going to come2 Pakistan/Bangaldesh ,how r ppl going to change?? So backwards will remain backward brother...
After all, parents who settled there changed too adapted themselves to the society,changed themselves and hence got adapted to the new environment.So back home unless ppl are taught the right way,they wont change ALlahualam

[Fajr]

I think the point made about 'those wanting to make hijrah are those that should really stay' really hit the nail on the head. I'd hate to think what would happen if the liberal and progressives took over completely because there was no-one of sound integrity left to guide the Muslim communities.

As a 'minority', though our numbers are surely increasing! The way we think has definitely got to change, and Yasir Qadhi's point about integration is a great lesson for us to take. It'll be interesting to make cross references also with the 'integration' of the early Muslims as they historically expanded into other lands e.g. the far-east/Indo areas and sub-central Africa.

I'd really like to see Shaykh Haitham al-Haddad's input as he's currently doing his degree and studies on the Fiqh of Minorities.

[Abuz Zubair]

I would refrain from using the term ‘integration’ in the UK, because although the essence of what he is saying is correct, the term is actually coined by the home office and what they mean by that is not what he is calling for. Integration to them equals assimilation, going to the pub on Fridays with your work colleagues.

[ykhan]

I would refrain from using the term ‘integration’ in the UK, because although the essence of what he is saying is correct, the term is actually coined by the home office and what they mean by that is not what he is calling for. Integration to them equals assimilation, going to the pub on Fridays with your work colleagues.



"Interaction" rather than "intergration/assimulation".



.

[Burning Candle]

Sorry, a bit slow on this one but finally saw the video. Masha'Allah, very interesting stuff, particularly about hijrah. Was speaking to a brother about this concept where brothers are rushing off to Emirates and elsewhere for what is essentially a more comfortable lifestyle choice. His point was, "where is the element of sacrifice in that?"

He mentioned that during the time of the khulafaah rashidoon, the best place in the world to be for Muslims at that time was Medina - the heart of the Islamic state, blessed with the dua of the Prophet, ruled by the shariah. Yet most of the salaf didnt remain there but left to spread the deen. Unfortunately, for many today, Islam has become wearing a jubba, hearing the azaan and having your children learning Arabic.

One thing I did have an issue with in the talk was the idea that our obligation here is not dawah but to simply practice our deen. I found this went against everything I am used to. What have other scholars said about this? Is our job in the West simply to preserve our deen amongst ourselves or should we be spreading it?

[Abuz Zubair]

One thing I did have an issue with in the talk was the idea that our obligation here is not dawah but to simply practice our deen. I found this went against everything I am used to. What have other scholars said about this? Is our job in the West simply to preserve our deen amongst ourselves or should we be spreading it?

I think he's been misunderstood. He wasn't talking about *the* main obligation, and not just any obligation. He was saying that our first and primary objective is the very survival and not giving da'wah. Although, all these things are necessary, and indeed, as he says: Fard kifaya.

[justabro]

I think he's been misunderstood. He wasn't talking about *the* main obligation, and not just any obligation. He was saying that our first and primary objective is the very survival and not giving da'wah. Although, all these things are necessary, and indeed, as he says: Fard kifaya.

also, not everyone is capable of fulfilling this fard kifaya... many Muslims - whether uncles or youth - have their hands full trying to keep their Islam. That's not just here in the West, even in many Muslim countries. It would not make sense, therefore, to say that their main goal should be da'wah.

[Burning Candle]

jazaka Allah khayr for clarifying that

[Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri]

Unfortunately, for many today, Islam has become wearing a jubba, hearing the azaan and having your children learning Arabic.


What is so unfortunate about those? Those are some of the basic requirements of Islam. So to those who want to stay in the midst of the mushrikeen - What should the response be for the muslim youth who are fornicating on the streets openly in the west? When the muslim youth have become just like the yahud and nassara in their dress, in their language, in their social interaction, in their evil ways of sexual immorality. You brothers are all senior it seems, you should go to the local univeristies to see the state of muslims, yes the ISOC's are thriving wa lillahil hamd but have you seen the rest of the muslims - the freemixing, the muslim women fornicating with mushrik men, the problem of crime and drugs, the muslims have become the drug barons as a minority in the UK - the abortion rates spiralling out of control amongst muslim single females etc etc - who will address such matters so we have social dealings according to Islam? Where are the leaders in the west?

I see such on a daily basis - please help the rest of the muslims who are not as holy as thou!

[Abuz Zubair]

What should the response be for the muslim youth who are fornicating on the streets openly in the west?

What kind of youths have you been hanging around with?

[Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri]

I don't hang anywhere. I am sure i'm not the only one who walks down to the town centre or local muslim shopping area to see what is going on.

[Burning Candle]

What is so unfortunate about those? Those are some of the basic requirements of Islam. So to those who want to stay in the midst of the mushrikeen - What should the response be for the muslim youth who are fornicating on the streets openly in the west? When the muslim youth have become just like the yahud and nassara in their dress, in their language, in their social interaction, in their evil ways of sexual immorality. You brothers are all senior it seems, you should go to the local univeristies to see the state of muslims, yes the ISOC's are thriving wa lillahil hamd but have you seen the rest of the muslims - the freemixing, the muslim women fornicating with mushrik men, the problem of crime and drugs, the muslims have become the drug barons as a minority in the UK - the abortion rates spiralling out of control amongst muslim single females etc etc - who will address such matters so we have social dealings according to Islam? Where are the leaders in the west?

I see such on a daily basis - please help the rest of the muslims who are not as holy as thou!

There is nothing unfortunate about those things specifically. What is unfortunate is when you limit Islam to the azaan, dress and Arabic. I agree, things are bad here and many Muslims are lost but things arent Utopian in the Muslim world either. Yes, you have many tulab al-ilm and people on the deen in the Muslim world but judging from

a) personal accounts of brothers who live there, and

b) the behaviour (drink, drugs, fornication, etc) of Muslim students who come to study here

there seems to be something going wrong over there as well. Many of these Muslims who come to study here form the Gulf commit the very sins you have mentioned, and they arent novices. So mn bros have gone to live n the UAE and they have the azaan, niqab, etc but you have the same social ills here a are in the West - alcohol, fornication, racism, drugs, etc

This isnt about 'holier than thou'; this is about recognising that wherever we are, we need to bring social reform in accordance with Islamic teachings. So if you are in the UAE, for arguments sake, and you see the ills, you need to change it. If you are in the UK and you see social problems, work to change it. From my experience, there is greater likelihood of bringing that change in the West.

[Student_of_Knowledge]

Asslamo Allaikum,

Its on youtube....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awwxluch-FA

Please watch all parts till part 14 & then Shaykh Salam Al-Odah Insha'Allah.