the clear path?

[hawwa]

asalmualaikum
I really need to hear from sisters and bros concerning salafism. my experiences with salafis in my locale have been wholly negative. the sister 'umm', from the now disabled post, well her experiences are exactly what happened to me. I have read, researched and TRIED to accept and 'submit' as they tell me i have to do but I just am not getting it because it seems to me that they want to justify saudi rule among other things. but the question is, AM I GOING TO HELL IF I DO NOT COMPLETELY SUBMIT TO THE THINGS I READ ON TROID.ORG and donot read the books that are written by rabi ibn madhkali?

I need to hear from openminded persons.

what is a surooree?

[Abu Ilyas]

Walaikumsalaam

No, you are not going to hell if you do not completely submit to what you read on TROID, people go to Hell only if they do not submit to Islam.

Stick to good authentic sites like this one, where Insha'alalh the brothers and sisters only want to help people submit to the truth and not submit to their group, which is what you and many others have experienced with TROID and others.

Just avoid contact with these types of people and concentrate on learning Knowledge...don't waste time with them.

Was Salaam

AI

[Ibn Al-Khattab]

Assalaamu-alaikum,

Dear sister Hawwa (I assume your a sister, but do forgive me if im wrong), brother Abu Ilyas is absolutely correct. Whoever said that submitting to a particular group or person will land someone in the hell fire? Surely the burden of proof lies upon the person or group who claims this. As for TROID and salafipublications and theres probably mor elike them have done nothing but created a fasaad in the ummah. I would warn brothers and sisters to stay away from their likes as they do nothing but please the governments. They are ignorant for starters, and they make up theyre own interpretations of how they see a certain text, and like the sufis, they try to twist the menaing to suit their argument.
As the brother pointed out, stick to this website if you wanna take authetic knowledge from proper students of knowledge, and not jaahil ones like those at TROID and co.

[khattab]

Some muslims says salafis are not muslims but i don`t agree with that. I think Salafis are muslims too. There are lots of Salafi mujahideeen such as Khattab, Bin Ladin, Shamil Basayev....etc.

[Ghaznavi]

what is a Salafi? is that an offshoot of Sunni Islam?
and is the Sheikh a Salafi?

[hawwa]

jazakum ullahu khairan all of you. I feel a little better. YOU see, in my community, which is very small, the salafis are causing a lot of trouble (they call it tarbiyah and tazkiya)and it had me very disturbed. Also as I said, they boycotted me because I dared to question the authenticity of the websites previously mentioned.

So are they a cult? Do they attract only a certain kind of followers? eg, where i live, most of them are uneducated.

another thing is, i heard one of their 'scholars' say that following a mathhab is wrong etc. but i thought it was just blind following of a mathhab taht was wrong.

yes!! and they really did tell me i was going to hell since my manhaj was warped( only because i questioned their stance on jihad).
the thing is they bring proof and my emotions tell me it may be tampered with but i donot have enough knowledge to tell them theat they are actually wrong.

[Ibn Al-Khattab]

Assalaamu-alaikum,

The term 'salafi' doesn't relate to a sect or a particular school of thought as some people think. It is a manhaj i.e. path/methodology. Even though nowadays you get Muslims claiming to be ahle-sunnah wal jamah, they in reality do not follow the true manhaj of ahle-sunnah i.e. the sufis, HT, Barelvis etc who claim to be ahle-sunnah, when in fact majority of what they follow or believe was never followed or done by the sahaba (ra) or their followers. Salafi is basically a short term an indivdual uses meaning follower of the salafu-saliheen, which means the first three generations of the Islamic era i.e the generation during RAsool-Allah's (saw) time and the two generations that followed i.e. Tabieen and Tab-Tabieen. Salafis (the real ones, not wannabes like TROID, SP's etc) are ahle-sunnah as they follow the method of following the Quran and the authentic sunnah as that followed by the 4 schools of thought i.e. Hanafis, Malikis, Shafis And Hanbalis.
Salafism is basically the follower of the Hanbali madhab, although many people will lie and say that Saafis are anti-madhabs, which is a lie,as they themself study mainly the fiqh of Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal (r). I myself follow the Salafi dawa but I study Shafi fiqh and follow the shafi school of though in issues of fiqh, but I gain my knowledge on issues of creed and methodology from the works of Shaikh Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahab (r), Shaikh Uthaymeen(r) and Shaikh Ibn Taymiyyah (r) mainly. Alot of the brothers I hang out with study Hanbali fiqh, and there are a few who study Shafi fiqh, but we all call to the same thing. Even Shaikh Salih Al-Munajid (hafidhullah) stated that Shaikh Bin Baz followed Hanbali madhab but wasn't a blind follower, in the same way HAfidh IBn Hajar (r), Hafidh Ibn Katheer (r) were Shafi followers but weren't blind followers, Ibn Taymiyyah (r), Ibn Al-Jawziyyah (r) were Hanbalis but were not blind followers as all these scholars were able to exercise ijtihad, but they still aligned themself to one of the four schools of thought.
SO I hope that has cleared up matters regarding the term 'salafi'. What the Salafiyyah calls to is the true Islam, none of the bidah and shirk stuff which is practised in alot of Muslim countries. We say that we should follow the way of the early generations of Islam and the scholars who followed them. We do not say "don't follow madhabs", as we all practically make taqleed in issues of fiqh. What we are strongly against is bidah and shirk, which alot of Muslims are ignorant of or have the perception that so and so is permissable. Also, Salafiyyah calls to strong adherence of the sunnah as held by the scholars of ahle-sunnah, none of that fancy beards which look as if they've been drawn on wid a pencil. The salfiyyah, to put it in a few words is "to follow the salaf and those who followed them in aqeedah and manhaj", none of this modernist Muslim etc u get nowadays where Muslims are looking to justify certain things in Islam which was never agreed upon by the scholars of ahle-sunnah or even given permission i.e making music halal, triming the beard down less than a fist length, wearing lower garments which drag etc.

[Ghaznavi]

thanks for the info

[hawwa]

brother ibn Khattab jazakallahu khairan

listen I KNOW THIS IS SOMETHING SENSITIVE i AM BRINGING UP AND IF THE MODERATORS OR YOU THINK IT IS TOO PERSONAL PLEASE SAY SO. AND WE WILL END THE DISCUSSION. I am actually very upset about the whole thing because i do follow the salafi methodology ( I do not blind follow the mathabs, I stay away from shirk and bidah etc, I recognise that there are deviant muslims etc) but my husband is a strong 'follower'of salafi publications and troid ( and all the mashaikh which these websites applaud and uphold). I disagree with the things I hear and read on the aforementioned. but to voice my disaproval amounts to my (in his eyes) being unwilling to accept adviceso what do i do in a situation like this? It is causing me a lot of stress. I am sorry for getting personal.

[Amani]

hawwa,
im sorry u hav 2 experience all of this, i dnt hav salafis in my area, mostly hanafis, but the problem still exists. they diss others like salafis and so on. this problem is actually the propblem of us mulims cos we have got soooo disunited and unaccepting.
infact hanbalis and salafis are regarded the same in some aspects.
but u still c scholars of one sect dissin scholars of other sects! its quite bad.
sorry but i cant giv u advice that ur asking 4 hawwa, u`ll have to ask someone whos more.....

whoever sed sheikh usama was salafi. how do u know/?
i wonder y was sheikh bin baz Rahimuallah against him?

[jabaraltariq]

Assalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu

Hope all the brothers and sisters are in the best of health and eeman.
Alhamdulillah, this is the first time I am posting on this forum. Mashallah, it is a comforting feeling to know that forums and wesites such as "IslamicAwakening.com" exist. May Allah give you the strength and ability to keep up the good work.

Subhanallah, when I started to practice the deen a couple of years ago, I was very confused. Especially with the "salafi" business. I thought that all those who claim to be salafi were the same. I then realised that there maybe different salafi's. The Saudi Gov. always seemed dodgy to me. I couldn't understand why some brothers defended them so staunchly. It seemed to contradict the teachings and the practices of the pious predecssors. But Alhamdulillah, I now realised that those brothers were the TROID and salafipublications type.

My point is that most of the muslims think that all "salafi's" are TROID. That's the problem.

[jabaraltariq]

I have grown up following the hanafi school of thought for fiqh. A couple of years ago (when I started practicing), I was very concerned regarding following madhabs. I was told by brothers that I am wrong. I have to follow hadith. I told them that I don't have sufficient knowledge to base a ruling on hadith and I wanted to follow an established school of thought because I was not a student of knowledge. They kept insisting.

I now still follow the hanafi school of thought for fiqh, but for aqeeda issues, I don't follow any Imams. What I mean is that I take from the teachings of the scholars in Al Hijas. It seems the most correct to me from the evidences they provide.

My problem is that, some brothers have put doubts into my head regarding the hanafi school of thought. Also, I don't see any books by Hanafi scholars (on hanafi fiqh) in any salafi bookshops. Why is that?

Jazakallah khair.

Wasalama

[Ibn Al-Khattab]

Assalaamu-alaikum,

Dear sister Hawwa, with regards to your situation, the only thing I advise you is to not get into debates wid ur husband as it can lead to disputes. The followers of salafipublications and TROID etc are clearly in major error. Some are mislead, even though they are sincere as Ive come across brothers like that, but then you have the cear deviants who know that truth but stil persist in their ignorance cos they wanna please the munafiqeen.
You should ask your husband to make a trip to the Peninsula and speak to the scholars there regarding some of the literature that salafipublications and TROID attribute to the scholars there. If the scholars confirm it, then SP's etc are on the haq, otherwise theyre preaching baatil concepts and info. The key is the Arabic language. I'd advise alot of brothers and sisters to learn Arabic as so much knowledge can be gained and misconceptions can be cleared cos people can directly read the works of the scholars rather than getting sum1 to tell them that and fool them into beleiving it is true. It's like in my area, there so many sufis, and hardly any of them know arabic, and they think theyre scholars by talking about deviated concepts and beliefs; and 99% of them dont even keep beards!!
If your husband knows arabic, im sure he can directly read the works of Shaikh Uthaymeen, Shaikh Bin Baz, or listen to talks of Shaikh Albani (may Allah have mercy on all of them) or Shaikh Salih Al-Fowzan (hafidhullah) who gave a fatwa against one of the so-called scholars of SP's and TROID, as a matter of fact the kibaar-ulama spoke against him (i cant remember his name) saying he was propagating Murji'ah beliefs!!! And Allah knows best!! Just have patience sister, im sure it will pay off in the long-term inshallah if not now!!

Wassalaamu-alaikum,

PS - Brother Jabir, theres nothing wrong wid u following a school of thought in issues of fiqh. As for Darussalam, the only fiqh you ay find there is Hanbali fiqh, as I mentioned in my previous post that Arabian Peninsula are majority, if not all, Hanbali followers in fiqh. Thats why yuo might not find Hanafi, MAliki or Shafi fiqh books in Darrusalam, although they do have books on the four imams, i.e. their lives and methodologies etc.

[hawwa]

brother ibn Al-khattab
may Allah reward you and bless you. and surely the behaviour and the manners i see on this forum is a manifestation of the way in which the ummah should function. something that is surely lacking in my community.
As to my situation, well I am given ultimatums but Allah is the best of planners.

Any discerning, sincere and intelligent individual can see that troid and SP have some errors. And in my locale,that is teh problem. As i said earlier, these people who hav eturned to the way of salafiya are uneducated in the western sense. many of them cannot even read english properly so then wha tcan you expect?

[jabaraltariq]

Assalaamu-alaikum,

PS - Brother Jabir, theres nothing wrong wid u following a school of thought in issues of fiqh. As for Darussalam, the only fiqh you ay find there is Hanbali fiqh, as I mentioned in my previous post that Arabian Peninsula are majority, if not all, Hanbali followers in fiqh. Thats why yuo might not find Hanafi, MAliki or Shafi fiqh books in Darrusalam, although they do have books on the four imams, i.e. their lives and methodologies etc.

Walaikum assalam akhi,

Jazakallah khair

[WilliamW]

Dear readers,
I'm new to this site, and it seems that I may have made a wrong turn or didn't go far enough, could you direct me to a more beginners area?
I was looking for Fundamentals and Beginners forum.
Thank You!
William

[Samira]

Here is a forum for beginners and also with a section for non-muslims wishing to learn about islam.

http://forums.gawaher.com/index.php?showforum=148&

There are also many articles on this site(islamic awakening)
http://www.islamicawakening.com/articles.php?

(Anyone please correct me if they think that message board is inappropriate!)

As salamu alaikum

[Abu Khalid]

There is no problem with being salafi... hwoever, lately there has been small groups of ignorant people all over the world calling themselves salafi and having 'as-salafee' added to their names etc... who have gone to the extreme, that they have started to misinterprete certain things in Islam as well. I knw some salafi brothers who are against jihaad for example.

But Salafi is the correct belief to hold on... except that we must avoid those who have gone to the extremes... who say that... for eg. the mujaahedeen of Afghanistan are kawaarej or that if you dont do like them you are kaafir...

So beware of these people. Otherwise, hold on to the teaching of the salaf us saaliheen, meaning the sahabas and their students etc... because they learnt correctly from the prophet peace be upon him

[ak47]

after our beloved Prophet (saw) passed away there were many madhabs and the all coexisted side by side in harmony.

the reason there were many, is because there were many people in that era who had sufficient knowledge and piety so as not to be led astray by nafs and shaitaan who could follow their own ijtihaad.

as time went on, the number of mujtahids grew less in number and those who did not have the capability followed those who did have the capability.

this was not an innovation but a natural progression of time and a very sensible thing to do to preserve the deen.

today we have four main madhabs that have survived. they have been given names connected to their respected shaikhs. this is not a bidah but just a method to recognise them, the same way some muslims are called indian, pakistani, arab etc. just a method of recognition.

if there are people today who have sufficient knowledge and piety they too can have their own ijtihad. but i dont think such people exist today. we are mainly engulfed by pride today and that would affect our judgment.

the mujtahids of the glorious era, the salaf e saliheen had different opinions and thoughts but did not fall out over these slight differences. but today our scholars are willing to wage war and call people kafir and condemn them to hell over little differences, as in your case. think, are we really in the right frame of heart to preserve the deen according to our understanding? think what would be the case if we followed our own ijtihad today? there would be bloodshed!

we should follow an established madhab and not let shaitaan lead us astray. we should not follow the deen and the madhabs blindly. how do we do that? by learning and consulting the scholars and not armchair muftis like myself who surf the internet all day! if we follow the madhabs according to our own understanding then we are blind followers as we are blindfolded with lack of knowledge and ignorance. we may understand a part of islam in a certain way, but there maybe some knowledge that changes what we understood by it, and because we have not studied the relevant ayats or hadith or do not know what other scholars have commented on that point then we will remain ignorant of it and may fall in sin.

i cannot understand the obsession of a lot of people nowadays who wish to be muftis over night and no longer want to be laymen in terms of what we really are, and just take the deen from those scholars who have sacrificed their entire lives for it. i think pride has a lot to do with it.

i would like to say more but it has already got too long that im afraid people will get bored and not read.

bottom line is follow a madhab according to a pious scholar who you can trust, inshallah you wont go to hell. inshallah we will all be saved from hell.

oh and.................DEATH TO THE ENEMIES OF ALLAH!

[ali]

As for salafiyyah hen this has pretty much been explained by the recen post ya haawa but to add further regarding it hen this salafiyyah is to follow the first three generations in Islaam in matters of beleif and methodology (aqeeda and manhaj).

So the reason wy those imaams of the past like Ishaaq ibn Rahaweih, Imaam Ahmad, the rest of the three Imaams, Wakee, Sufyaan ath-Thawree, Sufyaan Ibn Uyainah, Imaam al-Awzaa'e, Ibnul-Mubaaraak, and Hasan al-Basree rahimahullah jami'aan were from those first three generations and the later ones who followed those were the like of Ibnul-Jawzee, Ibnul-Qudaamah al-Maqdisee, Abu Bakr Khaeeb a-Baghdadee, Imaam ad-Daraqutnee, Ibnul-Salaah, Ibn Hajr al-Asqalaanee, Jalaalu-Deen as-Suyootee, Shaykhul-Islaam ibnul-Taymiyyah, Ibnul-Qayyim, Ibn katheer, Ibn Rajab al-Hanbalee, Imaam adh-Dhahabee and the later ones like Shaykhul-Islaam Muhammad ibn Abdul-Waahaabb, Ahmad Shaakr, Muhammad ibn Ibraheem aaluShaykh, Shaykhul-Islaam and Muhadith of our era Muhammad Naariru-Deen al-Albanee, Shaykh Muhammad Al-Ameen ash-Shanqeeti, Shaykh Muhammad ibnul-Saleh al-Uthaymeen, Shaykh Abdul-Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh ABdul-Muhsin al-Abbadd, Shaykh Abdul-Azeez aalu-Shaykh, Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan and others. These are just some of what Imaam Ahmad descibed as Ahlul-Hadeeth and this was in question put forth by somebody of his time who asked him the question "who are the seved sect" in which Imaam Ahmad replied "if it is not Ahlul-Hadeeth then I don't know who they are"

So these are the people of hadeeth amongst many many more from the past and our times.

As for salafi pubs and troid then I must tell you hawaa and others (in detail) about their deviance. As the ak47 explained or the one before him (i forget) that they misunderstood certain aspects of the religion. What they did was they fell into ghuloo (extremism) concerning the established principle of jarh wa t'adeel meaning the critisims and praise of an individual. In from this aspect of the religion then these people fell into ghuloo and inovated false ideas and usool which contradicted the correct understanding of the science.
So the resuls of there manhaj is that they have left the muslims and even those who are upon the way of the salaf becuase if one mistake they find in anyone then they disparaige that person whether it be an average layman like us or even a scholar.

So this manhaj resemble the manhaj of Mahmud al-Haddad who was a student of Shaykh Rabee who is also a salafee scholar but not on the level of those major scholars mentioned above. Mahmood al-Haddad's manhaj was overall to throw the people of the sunnah out of the sunnah and they practiced this with the likes of Ibnul-Jazee, Ibn Hajar, Imaam an-Nawawwee and others.

So this manhaj was flying around and for a time they had an upper hand unti lthe muhadith of Madinah Abdul-Muhsin ibn Hammad al-Abbad smashed this baatil with an earthquake nuclear bomb that basically made troid an sp loyalist and leaders devastated and they could not pick up the damage of their baatil. So the shaykh hafidhahullah annialated their manhaj and their baatil exposed.

so this is the case with them is that they are haddadees upon the haddadee manhaj until they come back to that which is correct.

asalamu alaikum

[Ibn_taymiyah]

*******Asalamu aleikum to you all

First of all, this is my first posting and i came by coincidence to this site, the reason that made me post on this forum is because of the misleading and confusing information about two sites, (TROID.org AND SALAFIPUBLICATIOINS.com) .

Dear brother and sisters, the term salafi is as brother ibn khattab explained properly , Quote ( The term 'salafi' doesn't relate to a sect or a particular school of thought ). </p>



I urge you to read what is been posted by salafipublication, its exactly regarding the topic and usefull as it contains enough information to understand the salafis.</p>







<font class="art">( There are numerous doubts often spread about naming with Salafiyyah and the word &quot;Salafi&quot;, some of them coming from sincere people, based upon what they have experienced and other times coming from the devils amongst men, who wish to pass judgement upon the da’wah of truth, see it fall, and have it replaced with their own innovatory ejaculations and hallucinations of the mind. To proceed:</font></p>



<font class="art">1) Labelling With Salafiyyah is an Innovation</font></p>

<font class="art">The word &quot;Salafiyyah&quot; was not applied during the time of the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) and his companions – this being due to the fact that the Muslims were upon the correct Islaam and there was no need for a word such as &quot;Salafiyyah&quot; at that time. However, when the tribulations occurred and the sects increased and the Ummah split the Ulamaa of the Ummaah stood to distinguish those upon the truth from those upon falsehood and hence they stated &quot;Ahl ul-Hadeeth&quot; and &quot;as-Salaf&quot;.</font></p>



<font class="art">Abu Haneefah (d. 150H) (rahimahullaah) said: &quot;Adhere to the athar (narration) and the tareeqah (way) of the Salaf (Pious Predecessors) and beware of newly invented matters for all of it is innovation.&quot; (Reported by As-Suyootee in Sawn al Mantaq wal-Kalaam p.32)</font></p>





for the whole article go to this link below</p>

</p>

</p>

http://www.salafipublications.com/sps/</p>



Please be open minded instead of being narrow minded and focusing on each others defects, because at the end of the day no one is perfect.</p>





As its stated in a hadeeth: Verily when a sin is kept hidden it doesn't harm anyone except the person that committed it. but when it is done publicly and not repelled, it harms the masses of the people.</p>





And be*******mindful about the*******hadith the Prophet (saw) said: Indeed Allah does not take away the knowlegde from the chest of the scholars but rather he causes the knowlegde to go away*******by death of the scholars, untill there is no scholar left the people will take as head*******ignorant people and they will ask them and they will give fatwa and they will answer without knowledge and they will deviate themselves and the people that asked.</p>



This is my*******first and maybe my last posting as i*******will not have time to check and*******reply so take care*******of your selves, And may Allah guide*******us all on the right path.</p>

</p>

</p>

[Hiker]

You should avoid all groups, stick to following the Quran and following the teaching of our prophet (saw). There are many groups, who claim to be ahl al sunna wa jamaaha, but not all of them are. </p>



From my experience the main stream salafi are very good people, and are very knowledgeable, but it are the people at fringe groups amongst the salafi, who go around, claiming, if people do not follow them they will go hell. I have heard some salafi go far as imply that it is only them who have understood the quran and sunnah and everybody else has failed to understand. This shows how arrogant some of them are, so just avoid these kind of people.</p>

[gag order]

the type of &quot;salafi&quot; bieng referred to on this topic are the saudisalafis or &quot;madkhalis&quot; the supporters of king fahd. their characteristics:</p>



they have extreme hatred for jihad and mujahideen and accuse them of bieng &quot;khawarij&quot; or &quot;takfiri&quot; when*******they are neither of these</p>



they are against blindfollowing but allow it for themselves when blindfollowing sheikh bin baaz or any other scholar who speaks on behalf of the ministry of the interior KSA</p>



they claim saudi is an islamic state and cannot tolerate critiscm of it or its ruling family</p>



they speak endlessly about &quot;tawheed&quot; but conveniently ignore that allah is the*******ONLY law giver</p>



they raise many good points against the shia the barelvi the sufi the qadiani but without realizing they share common ground with them: they collaborate with them in hating mujahideen and hating the idea of khilafah</p>



their idea of a refutation is to mock and verbally abuse.</p>



and the list goes on.</p>







IN STARK CONTRAST:</p>



you may have heard or read somewhere that the US and its sponsored analysts and scholars claim that the &quot;wahhabi strain&quot; of islam is responsible for the existance alqaida and are pressing the saudi athourities to crackdown on this &quot;fringe&quot; element that is a part of a wider salafi community. then what they are reffering to is the jihadist element. </p>



the difference between the saudisalafis and the salafist jihadis is like the difference between night and day. though they share common ground on nearly the entire spectrum of theological aspects, the jihadists have translated their beliefs into action and the similarity ends here.</p>



so when we say we have a problem with salafis it is important to establish the type first!**************</p>



*******</p>







**************</p>