Can one trim the beard less then ones first length?

[asharee_salafi]

assalaam'ualykum,

can one trim their beard then less then a fist length, is it wajib to have the beard at least fist length?

what does the hanbali madhab say on this issue?

What is the proof for trimming less then a handful?

thanks

[Salahudin]

assalaam'ualykum,

can one trim their beard then less then a fist length, is it wajib to have the beard at least fist length?

what does the hanbali madhab say on this issue?

What is the proof for trimming less then a handful?

thanks

the beard is not fard...many say it is recommended, some say say it is optional i.e. Mubah and then some literalists say it is wajib...

so it depends who you ask...

[abu_ibrahim]

the beard is not fard...many say it is recommended, some say say it is optional i.e. Mubah and then some literalists say it is wajib...

so it depends who you ask...

Whatever you do, never ask a HT about beards lol.

[Salahudin]

Whatever you do, never ask a HT about beards lol.

Ht don't have an opinion the beard because it has nothing to do with its work!!!

Besides, its not the most pressing matter for the ummah to address is it?

[abu_ibrahim]

Ht don't have an opinion the beard because it has nothing to do with its work!!!

That reminds me when some years ago when I was outside Regents Masjid in Ramadan. I saw couple of HT dudes, and I was chatting to them, and out of curiosity I asked them why they don't have beards. They flipped lol, and starting getting all aggressive. They started saying to me, "To establish Khilifah is Fard and to have a beard is sunnah, so which is more important?".

[Salahudin]

That reminds me when some years ago when I was outside Regents Masjid in Ramadan. I saw couple of HT dudes, and I was chatting to them, and out of curiosity I asked them why they don't have beards. They flipped lol, and starting getting all aggressive. They started saying to me, "To establish Khilifah is Fard and to have a beard is sunnah, so which is more important?".

I'm glad they reminded you of the Fard...

[justabro]

right... i take it they are too busy establishing khilafah to grow beards

[ibnYaseen]

I was once at a HT talk in a masjid in Slough, the speech was being given by "economics expert" Sajjad Khan. After a lengthy talk the usual Q-&-A session began, a brother asked "if you're so Islamic how come you haven't got a beard?" and suddenly everybody woke up from the sleep we were in thanks to hearing a HT blabber on about something we'd all, except for our "contacts, had already heard a million times already. With everyone now alert, the tension building up whilst Sajjad's face began getting redder than Omar Bakri's face after going up two flights of stairs, Sajjad replied with "ha ha... ha... if bringing back Khilafah depended on me growing a beard then I'd grow a beard ten feet long.. ha ha.... ha".

the silence was defeaning.

That was the first time my hizbiyya infected mind allowed me to look negatively upon one of HTs top role-models. I couldn't fathom a more pathetic response, yet "don of dons" Sajjad Khan oozed one outta his HT mouth infront of us all, conveniently showing how much extreme rational thought can rape one's mind, as is the case for almost all HTs.

Ask a HT about beards, answer = it isn't a farai'd, khilafah is
Ask a HT about smoking, answer = it isn't haraam, not working for khilafah is

[Salahudin]

Considering the important things Muslims are obligated to undertake I really do not like discussing such topics but for the sake of clarifying the issue for you, in line with the objective of pleasing Allah (swt), I have found the following for your benefit:
==============================
The beard is a natural, physical aspect of man. Growing it is a practice that man took up long before Islam and continues to do so after Islam. It is part of the fitra (natural) characteristics which Allah (swt) has gifted men with. Fitra here means the inner sense of cleanliness in a man which is a proof of his moral and mental state. Other characteristics of fitra are stated in the following hadith of the Messenger of Allah (saw), "Ten are the acts of fitra: trimming the moustache, letting the beard grow, siwak (using the tooth stick), snuffing the water in the nose, cutting the nails, washing the finger joints, plucking the hair under the armpits, shaving pubic hair, cleaning one's private parts with water and rinsing the mouth."

Imam Shawkhani said in his book Nayl al-Awtar,

"What he (saw) means by fitra is that if these characteristics are followed by a man, he would be described as a man of fitra, which Allah (swt) has gifted his servants with, and encouraged them to follow, so that they attain a high degree of respectability and dignity."

As for the Islamic verdict on the beard, there are three opinions:

1) Growing the beard is an obligation and shaving it is forbidden. This opinion is championed by Ibn Hazm and Ibn Taymiyyah among others.

2) Growing the beard is mandub and shaving is makruh. This opinion is championed by Ibn Hanbal, Ibn Qudamah, Imam Shirazi, Imam Shawkhani, Imam Nawawi and Qadi Ayadh.

3) Growing and shaving the beard is mubah, which is the opinion of Qadi Abu Bakr Ibn al-`Arabi and Imam Qurtubi.

FIRST OPINION

For the first opinion scholars have referred to the following ahadith to back their claim.

a. "Closely trim the moustache and grow the beard and thus act differently from the fire-worshippers."

b. "Act differently from the polytheists, trim closely the moustache and grow the beard."

c. "Let the beard grow and trim the moustache and do not imitate the Jews and Christians, and dye your grey hairs"

d. "Verily Allah ordered me to grow the beard and trim my moustache."

e. "In our deen, we trim the moustache and let the beard grow."

f. "Whoever imitates some people, he becomes one of them." This hadith has been narrated by Abu Dawud on the authority of Ibn `Umar.

The ahadith a, b and c, do not indicate that acting differently from the disbelievers in this issue and in similar issues, which have no connection with their faith, is an obligation. It is rather a mandub action, and it falls in line with the Messenger of Allah's (saw) saying, "The Jews and the Christians do not dye their hair, thus act differently from them." Despite this, some of the Sahabah and the generation after them did not dye their hair. This indicates that the imperative tense used here, does not necessarily indicate an obligation, otherwise none of the Sahabah would have disobeyed.

Qadi Ayadh said,

"The Sahabah and those who followed them had their differences over the issue of khidab (dyeing) and its origin, some said that it was best to leave it."

Imam al-Tabari said,

"The ordering and forbidding related to this issue (dyeing) was not meant as an obligation, that is why people did not blame or criticise one another."
Ibn al-Jawzi said,
"A group of the Sahabah and some of those who followed them did not dye their hair."
Imam al-Nawawi said in Al-Majmou `,
"Our opinion is of the desirability of dyeing grey hair for men and women."
In Al-Mughni, Imam Ibn Qudamah said,
"It is desirable to dye the grey hair with a colour other than black."
All this demonstrates clearly that some of the Sahabah did not dye their hair despite what the Messenger of Allah (saw) had said in relation to acting differently to the Jews and Christians, furthermore large number of scholars have stated that the dyeing of the hair is a mandub action. This indicates that not every hadith where acting differently to the disbelievers has been mentioned, necessarily carries an obligation. It could also be mandub, but it depends on what the action is linked to, or what the action carries in terms of reward or punishment. The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Act different from the Jews, they do not pray with their shoes and their socks on." This also has not been performed by all the Sahabah nor by those who followed them, and the scholars said that the wearing of shoes as an action different from the People of the Book is desirable, but not wajib.
Another example would be the saying of the Messenger of Allah (saw), "Do not imitate the Jews and the Christians. The Jews salute with their finger and the Christians with their hands." Despite this, none of the distinguished scholars have said that the manner of saluting (with the finger or with the hand) is forbidden, rather they say that it is makruh.
We gather from this, that the Messenger of Allah's (saw) order to acting differently from the disbelievers in the matter of trimming the moustache and growing the beard, is not wajib but mandub, as it is similar to acting differently from disbelievers in the issues of dyeing hair, wearing shoes in prayer and the form of saluting and so on.
As for hadith d, it does not convey the obligation nor even the desirability, it only carries a request. Distinguished scholars recognise that not every order carries an obligation but rather that every order carries a recommendation or a request. For the order to become an obligation it has to be linked to some sort of reward or punishment. So many verses of the glorious Qur'an and many sayings of the Messenger of Allah (saw) have taken a similar line. The meaning of the order could be either real or figurative or just a request. It does not carry an obligation unless indicated.
When Allah (swt) mentions in the Qur'an,

"And when you have left the sacred precincts, do hunt" [TMQ 5:2]

"And when the prayer is ended, then disperse" [TMQ 62:10]
or,

"Eat of the things which Allah has provided for you" [TMQ 5:88]
or,

"0 children of Adam! Wear your beautiful apparel at every time and place of prayer." [TMQ 7:31]

or when the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "We have been ordered to make tasbeeh after prayers" or "We have been ordered to perfect our wudu' " or "Marry and have children, and I shall be proud of you before other nations on the day of Reckoning", these verses and sayings have all come in the imperative tense, but do not necessarily carry the obligation for there are no indications for that. They merely mean a request. The indication needed to make it obligatory is a warning against punishment or a promise from Allah (swt) of reward or forgiveness. So the issues of hunting, eating, dressing up, tasbeeh, perfecting the wudu' and marriage, which all come in the verses and ahadith as orders, have not been defined by scholars as obligatory because there are no indications linked to that.

When the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "My Lord has ordered me to let my beard grow", this does not carry an obligation but merely a request. Furthermore, the actions of the Messenger of Allah (saw) are either natural, such as how he used to blitik his eyes or move his lips, or special actions particular to him which no one else is allowed to perform, such as having more than four wives at any one time, or to fast continuously. Similarly, there are also other actions which Allah (swt) has made compulsory on his Messenger but mandub for his Ummah, like staying up in the night for witr and duha prayers. As for actions which do not fall in the above categories, Muslims must abide by all those which are wajib, perform as much as possible those which are mandub, keep away from the makruh, completely leave the haram, and perform or leave the mubah.

The hadith e, in which the Messenger of Allah says, "In our deen, we trim the moustache and we let the beard grow", does not necessarily imply an obligation because in our deen there is the wajib , the mandub, the makruh and the ha ram. The text has to have an indication linking it to the request in order to define it as being either an obligation, a desirable action or otherwise.

As for hadith f, it is a weak one. Furthermore, imitating the disbelievers in a certain action means that the action itself has to originate from them. However, if a Muslim makes an intention to imitate the disbelievers by deliberately not growing his beard, and by not trimming the moustache, then he becomes undoubtedly sinful, but, if he does not grow his beard for no other reason then just a habit or because he wishes not to, then he is not considered to be sinful. For further clarification nowadays we see that many disbelievers are letting their beards grow, so do we say that we have to stop growing our beards because we must not imitate them?

Some people say that the trimming of the moustache is an obligation, because the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Whoever does not trim his moustache is not one of us." They claim that the words "he is not one of us" means that it is obligatory because this is an indication linking it to an obligation. In answer to this we should say that not every hadith in which the Messenger of Allah (saw) mentions the phrase "not one of us" carries, or entails an obligation. This has to be looked into more closely.

Many ahadith came with the phrase "not one of us" but this does not mean that the request always carried an obligation. For example, the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Whoever does not shave his pubic hair, cut his nails and trim his moustache is not one of us." Does this mean that the shaving of the pubic hair is obligatory? The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Whoever does not perform witr prayer is not one of us." Does this mean that whoever does not pray witr is a disbeliever or rebellious?
The phrase "not one of us" does not necessarily entail an obligatory action. The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Three acts are wajib for me and Sunnah for you: witr, siwak and night vigil." Scholars have all agreed that witr is desirable and not obligatory. In another hadith, the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Marriage is from my Sunnah, whoever does not follow my Sunnah is not one of us." This is an indication that Muslims are encouraged to marry and that it is desirable, but it does not mean that marriage is obligatory.

Therefore, the hadith must be looked at closely if it contains the phrase "he is not one of us". It could entail a forbidden action, or a desirable one, or an undesirable one, or an obligatory one, such as when the Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "He is not one of us who calls for tribalism." This means that it is forbidden, not because of the phrase "not one of us" but because Shari'ah has forbidden it through many verses of the Qur'an other than this ahadith.

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "He is not one of us he who cheats us." Cheating is forbidden, not because of the phrase "not one of us", but because the Shari'ah has forbidden cheating in other ahadith.

As for the hadith where he (saw) said, "Whoever does not trim his moustache is not one of us", this however, only means that trimming is desirable. When asked about the trimming of the moustache Imam Ibn Hanbal said, "It is from the Sunnah" i.e. it is desirable.

Trimming the moustache means cutting the hairs that grow over the lips because it has been mentioned that it is undesirable to completely shave the moustache.

Some might say that the Sahabah never shaved their beards and this means that it is forbidden. It has to be said here, that the evidence for any verdict is not related to what the Sahabah did or did not do. The evidence should be drawn from the request of the Messenger of Allah (saw) to act differently to the disbelievers. This request has not been definitive enough to suggest an obligation. As for the Sahabah not shaving the beards, this had been a habit that the people took up before Islam as well as after it. This is same as the wearing of the `amamah. No one has narrated that he saw any of the Sahabah walking the streets with no `amamah on. The wearing of the `amamah by the Sahabah does not make it an obligation, and no scholar has ever claimed that just because the Sahabah used to wear `amamah, we are all obliged to do so. Therefore such evidence is rejected.

Some say that the Messenger of Allah (saw) never shaved his beard and back this with the verses,

"Verily in the Messenger of Allah you have a good example for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day, and who engages much in the praise of Allah" [TMQ 33:21]
and,

"And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it. And whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)." [TMQ 59:7]
In answer to this we should say that it is true that following in the footsteps of the Messenger of Allah (saw) in all the actions which are not unique to him, is the duty of every Muslim. However, the obligation of following the Messenger of Allah (saw) does not necessarily entail the obligation of performing all the actions that he (saw) performed. We are obliged to follow his actions only according to what the actions entail, i.e. if the action is wajib, then we are obliged to perform it; if the action is mandub, then it is recommended for us to perform it. For example, if we were to make an action obligatory which is not so, we would then contravene the Sunnah of our Messenger (saw), and if we forbid an action which the Messenger (saw) did not forbid, we would also contravene the Sunnah of Messenger of Allah (saw), thus ultimately contravening the Shari'ah of Allah (swt).
The Messenger of Allah (saw) used to like raisins and dates, he used to wear musk and he never liked onion, garlic or rabbit, despite this he (saw) made these things mubah for us.

SECOND OPINION

As for the second opinion, which we rely upon and prefer, scholars who back this opinion base it on the following evidences.
The Messenger of Allah's (saw) said, "Ten are the acts of fitra: trimming the moustache, letting the beard grow, siwak (using the tooth stick), snuffing the water in the nose, cutting the nails, washing the finger joints, plucking the hair under the armpits, shaving pubic hair, cleaning one's private parts with water and rinsing the mouth." Al-Nisa'i has actually related the same hadith but with the wordings, "Ten are the acts of the Sunnah..." Ibn `Abbas reported, "These ten acts of fitra had been obligatory in the Shari'ah of Ibrahim and became Sunnah in our Shari'ah." Then he narrated the hadith.

Fitra has many meanings, one of them is Islam or the millah (nation). The messenger of Allah (saw) said, "The new born is born on the fitra ..." Some say that it is the physique or the shape which Allah (swt) ordained for people. Some said that the fitra is the beginning. Imam Nawawi said that the fitra means the Sunnah, and this is the correct meaning. Imam Khitabi said that the fitra means the Sunnah according to many scholars.
Qadi Ayadh said that the shaving of the beard is makruh.

THIRD OPINION

Qadi Ibn al-Arabi is one of the scholars who supports the third opinion. He said that letting the beard grow is permitted, and claimed in his book Ahkam al-Qur'an that it is a sign of cleanliness and handsomeness. Imam Qurtubi said that non-Muslims shave their beards and grow moustaches and that is contradictory to cleanliness and beauty.
We conclude that this issue has been at the centre of controversy and differences amongst the scholars. A Muslim has the right to adopt any opinion from a scholar he trusts, and which he feels has the strongest evidence. The opinion which I feel is strongest in evidence is the one which says that the growing of the beard is mandub. A Muslim gets a reward for growing it, but does not get punished if he does not.

[ibnYaseen]

The beard is a natural, physical aspect of man. Growing it is a practice that man took up long before Islam and continues to do so after Islam.

Let me guess... the unknown mysterious author probably didn't mean what he said here right?

[Abu Hafsa]

correct me if im wrong, but is not what salahuddin posted taken from essential fiqh which is attributed to omar bakri, i dont know if he ohlds to the same views.

[Yasir]

Isn't that a paste from the "Essential Fiqh" book of our favourite Umm al-Quraa graduate?

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

right... i take it they are too busy establishing khilafah to grow beards

lol! that is a cracker!

The beard is fard and so for all those who say it is fard, it is fard mutlaaq i.e. always fard whether we have khilafah or not.

Working for khilafah is fard kifayah muhattam and not fard al-'ayn and will return back to fard kifayah when there is a khilafah. So Maybe sal should remember himself about fards.

Also 'aqeedah (having the correct one) is fard which is absolute and unrestricted and not dependent upon khilafah.

But some people want to just get lashed when the khilafah 'ala minhaj an-Nabuwwah(saw) arrives.......

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

Isn't that a paste from the "Essential Fiqh" book of our favourite Umm al-Quraa graduate?

i think so. It is hilarious isn't it!

[Salahudin]

lol! that is a cracker!

The beard is fard and so for all those who say it is fard, it is fard mutlaaq i.e. always fard whether we have khilafah or not.

Working for khilafah is fard kifayah muhattam and not fard al-'ayn and will return back to fard kifayah when there is a khilafah. So Maybe sal should remember himself about fards.

Also 'aqeedah (having the correct one) is fard which is absolute and unrestricted and not dependent upon khilafah.

But some people want to just get lashed when the khilafah 'ala minhaj an-Nabuwwah(saw) arrives.......

I have yet to see the decisive request from the Legislator to affirm what you deem as Fard in terms of beard ,so be careful..........

Fard is divided to Ayn and Kifayah...The Fard to establish a group (verse 3:104) was Fard Kifyah and because of the reality, the work of this group was to Resume the ISlamic Way of Life by establishing the Khilafah..the Group stays in existence even after the State comes into being....since the time limit to establish the Khilafah has expired (3 days) then the sin remains upon all the muslims unless they are engaged in the work to establish the State......the work necessitates it being with a group....

Therefore there is no need complciate things with terms which only describe the Fard as opposed to defining it!

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

I have yet to see the decisive request from the Legislator to affirm what you deem as Fard in terms of beard ,so be careful..........

I have yet to see you actually presenting any form of independent research other than cut n pastes and even resorting to using obm (trustworthy for you?) to "prove your point". So be careful.

Fard is divided to Ayn and Kifayah...The Fard to establish a group (verse 3:104) was Fard Kifyah and because of the reality, the work of this group was to Resume the ISlamic Way of Life by establishing the Khilafah..the Group stays in existence even after the State comes into being....since the time limit to establish the Khilafah has expired (3 days) then the sin remains upon all the muslims unless they are engaged in the work to establish the State......the work necessitates it being with a group....

Therefore there is no need complciate things with terms which only describe the Fard as opposed to defining it!

if you don't understand basic 'usuli terms thinking tey "complicate things" and then describe the reality of the term (without even knowing) shows regurgitation with lack of understanding.

In this case you should be quiet!

[Salahudin]

I have yet to see you actually presenting any form of independent research other than cut n pastes and even resorting to using obm (trustworthy for you?) to "prove your point". So be careful.



if you don't understand basic 'usuli terms thinking tey "complicate things" and then describe the reality of the term (without even knowing) shows regurgitation with lack of understanding.

In this case you should be quiet!

Again, why avoid the evidences and accuse the 'author' which for you information was not OBM...just because he might (I don't know) have used the same evidences does not mean it was his work! Tackle the arguement and not resort to unislamic behaviour...or do I have to explain the characteristics of discussion form an islamic perspective for you?

Usuli terms?

[Yasir]

... when countless scholars have said the beard is fardWould its denial then constitute kufr?

[morbius]

Circumcision is not mutilation, yet shaving is?:confused:

['Abd al-Kareem]

loooool

the funniest thing ever, when you give someone naseeha about something sooo simple that they need to be doing, they say "Well, doing such-and-such is way more important!"

Yes we know establishing khilafah is higher up on the scale, but you can't do this as well?? Seems like you'll be garbage at establishing khilafah then...if you can't even afford to stop shaving your beard (which is actually less work than shaving it.) because of the sahih hadiths of our beloved Prophet sallaAllahu 'alayhi wassalam ordering to grow the beards.

We hear and obey. Not 'we hear, we decide there's something more important, and I can't be troubled obeying, even though it's no trouble whatsoever'

[Salahudin]

loooool

the funniest thing ever, when you give someone naseeha about something sooo simple that they need to be doing, they say "Well, doing such-and-such is way more important!"

Yes we know establishing khilafah is higher up on the scale, but you can't do this as well?? Seems like you'll be garbage at establishing khilafah then...if you can't even afford to stop shaving your beard (which is actually less work than shaving it.) because of the sahih hadiths of our beloved Prophet sallaAllahu 'alayhi wassalam ordering to grow the beards.

We hear and obey. Not 'we hear, we decide there's something more important, and I can't be troubled obeying, even though it's no trouble whatsoever'

so do you also hunt after the hajj? since the order is same from the language...of course you don't because it is understood from the language that the order is not decisive...common get with it and stop this nonsense!

[Umm Ahmed]

Poor face that its attacked every morning with a blade, the Phrophet said leave it , you actually waste a lot of time keeping the girly look.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

Again, why avoid the evidences and accuse the 'author' which for you information was not OBM...just because he might (I don't know) have used the same evidences does not mean it was his work! Tackle the arguement and not resort to unislamic behaviour...or do I have to explain the characteristics of discussion form an islamic perspective for you?

Usuli terms?

your one to seek explanations when you leave discussion and only post "cut n paste" with no understandings whatsoever of what you even post let alone others!

what evidences? the author made you conclude that saying the beard is wajib is the literalist's position when it is clearly the mu'tamad position of 3/4 madhahib! the shafi'es differing!

please go learn something other than getting cut n pastes of the k-ref cd or where ever.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

so do you also hunt after the hajj? since the order is same from the language...of course you don't because it is understood from the language that the order is not decisive...common get with it and stop this nonsense!

Do you know arabic? or are you regurgitating this rubbish 'ht of the nineties wanna look like a gal' argument?

hold on how about "if you say smoking is haram due to self harm then so is butter and sugar!"

[Salahudin]

Do you know arabic? or are you regurgitating this rubbish 'ht of the nineties wanna look like a gal' argument?

hold on how about "if you say smoking is haram due to self harm then so is butter and sugar!"

address the evidences...not the individual....
and grow up!

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

address the evidences...not the individual....
and grow up!

are you clean shaven?

[abu_ibrahim]

are you clean shaven?

It depends what you mean "clean shaven" lol.

Does a goatee or grade 1 stubble count as a beard?

[bamshaheed]

as salaamu 'alaikum

Writing and researching extensively on the beard I have found that it is wajib (obligatory) to grow the beard based on the syntax of the hadith related by Ibn Umar in which the Prophet (saws) is clearly giving an amr (command) to grow the beard and trim the mustache. However, one does not fall into kufr (that takes one outside the fold of Islam) if he cuts his beard. If, however, the syntax of the hadith clearly reveals an amr, it is incumbent upon the Muslims that adhere to the Prophet's (saws) sunnah to follow his command.

But more importantly, the beard has become a hot topic amongst Muslims who live in a non-Muslim land. I believe the reason for this, as I have found in my research about the topic, is that the beard has become a symbol that embodies some of the core principles of Islamic revivalist ideology; namely, adherence to an idealized past, and an outward manifestation of the faith that sets one apart from those who do not believe. These two principles are fundamental to religious revivalist ideology.

I recommend that you rigorously research the topic and not simply rely on internet chat rooms and other's opinions in formulating your own. I am confident that after careful investigation you will be able to understand and place the beard issue in its proper place. Insha'allah.

Jazakallahu Khair