Umm
30th April 2004, 11:21 PM
By Alma_Libre on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 11:03 am: Edit
Dear Brothers and Sisters I represent you a small piece from the book "Osi, the great man" . All the benefits of this book will given to the palestinian and iraqi orphans. As the writter said, it is a book "from her heart for all these people who fight for the freedom and peace"
"I ought to write a few words, for this splendid man.
The man, who I got knew, almost twenty years before................
Twenty years of distress for his life.........
Twenty years of prayer for him.......
Twenty years of hope to be his dream true.
Many people speak about him, without know him at all. They remove conclusions on his life, however most of them are lies. And these make me angry a lot, cause my dearest Sheiikh doesn't reserve such a confrontal . A lot of people using his name, in order to express their own opinions.
However God gave me the honour to knew this man, to feel and to ache with him.
This little book has been written for you Osi and for all these young people around the world, who love and admire you.
.................................................. .................................................. ......
It was a midday of April, hardly we had finished the morning courses in the university. One Palestinian fellow-student, Muchtar, asked me to help him in physics lesson during our lunch's break. So, we went to university library for studying.
After a little, a very tall man entered the room and approached the Muchtar, speaking in Arabics. I did not understand neither a word.
Muchtar then turned to my side and introduced me the foreigner:
-Here is my friend, Osama, he said.
-This is the first time that I meet so much tall person, Mr Osama, I aswered.
The Arab looked me suprised and then he smiled and said
- And this is my first time, that I meet a girl studying mechanical engineering!
That was the first meeting with him. I was eighteen years old and he was twenty-six...................................."
To be continue
By Umm on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 04:30 pm: Edit
What a pathetic book. What is it, knights of Arabia meets Jackie collins' trash?
Please spare us any further reviews of this sort.
Umm.
By sister on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 05:53 pm: Edit
Alhamdulillah sis. I was thinking the same thing. You feel ashamed reading it coz you think your'e reading a romance novel rather than a biography. I think it's wrong to talk about someone's past the way she is. And how do we know it's true anyway? And even if it was I don't want to know about it and I don't think anyone muslim should either. I'm sure no one here would like someone to write a book on the things they did and said when they were at college or university, when maybe their understanding of the deen wasn't as clear as it is now.
By Umm on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 10:58 pm: Edit
Sis, it is not true. It is slander. Shaykh Usamah was religious even in his youth. It is western lies that he was educated in europe or the States and had a playboy lifestyle in his youth.
By sister on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 11:14 pm: Edit
Jazak Allah khair sis. I was told the exactly the same thing by someone else, that he had an Islamic upbringing and was not educated in the west. After September 11th in the days when I still used to watch documentaries on the TV, the kufaar tried to put on programmes with such filth. What makes me sick about this one is the "All the benefits of this book will given to the palestinian and iraqi orphan." Just another in a long list of dirty tactics used to create doubts in our minds regarding our mujahideen.
By Ibn Javed on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:21 am: Edit
As-salaamu alaikum,
Yes, and there is an interview online somewhere of Usamah's brother, who spoke about his youth and his efforts in enjoining the good and forbidding the evil within the family and home.
Wassalaam
By Alma_Libre on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:38 am: Edit
What is true or what is lie nobody knows. Or maybe only one knows what happened or not. Nobody never said that Bin Laden have been educated in Europe (and as I know the education never is a problem whatever it comes). And by the way is too hothead who criticize a book without reading it. However, there are not all the western people enemies, maybe the real enemies must be found somewhere else. And as you remembered very recently my dear brothers and sisters, the european citizens reacted very much about the war to Iraq. On the contrary there was not enough reaction in muslim countries.
Let's see the things in reality: There is not a war between christian and muslim. THERE IS ONLY ONE WAR: the oil and the sources of energy. This is the reality. USA attack to the Middle East only for the oil not for religion. It is time the arab nation to see the true, to react and also to accept all these people (unless their religion or citizenship) who want to help the freedodom and peace to the whole area
By Osi? on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:18 am: Edit
Alma, the first page you put up is enough for the book to be criticized. I find it very distateful that a woman thinks it's ok to write about her encounters with a non mahram man, especially when it's done in a sick Mills and Boon style. The words used Subhan Allah make me feel embarrassed. As muslims our respect for Sheikh Usama is from his efforts with regard to our deen and jihad. We already know about his upbringing and his traits as a young man. We already know that they were Masha Allah. So trying to tarnish his image while claiming to do the opposite is pretty low. And who is the author anyway? I don't think any sister who had any understanding of her deen would refer to a non mahram man as "Osi"
It is true that many people in the West were against the war in Iraq. But, as i'm sure you realised all the demonstrations, the shouting came to nothing. The "democratically" elected leaderships of these people ignored them and the United Nations and proceeded to commit their crimes against the Iraqi people. If anything all this should have made the civilian populations question whether democracy truly does exist in their countries and move towards resloving this issue. Instead most have become silent accomplices, due to observing what is happening and doing nothing or closing their eyes to what's happening as is the case with some who frequent this site. On the contrary, there was a lot of reaction fom the muslim countries-but not enough. It is true many of our problems are self inflicted because as muslims we do not understand many issues in our deen which would help give us the strength to remove our corrupt rulers and their corrupt rulers.
Also, i'm a bit confused. You are "plugging" a book that's supposed to show the "real" Sheikh Usama and shows admiration for him, but at the same time you seem to disagree with Sheikh Usama's basic philosopy (from his speeches)that this is a War between Iman and Kufr, Truth and Falsehood and a confrontation between two very different ways of life, not just an oil war.
By Alma_Libre on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 01:30 pm: Edit
Permit me dear Mr."Osi" to have my objections.
-You can't cricize from one page, when the book is more than 400pages. And by the way it is not a romance book, but a book speaking about fighting. It's a book about a pure and deep friendship and admiring and not loving affairs. Why you always think that between a man and woman there is only loving affairs?
So there is not any cinderella story in the book.
And about the author: she has been tortured enough from American inteligents and now you can find her fighting in Palestine. So I don't think that she deserves any diatribe.
I will be acknowledge to you if you explain to me what is the expressions "Subhan Allah -Iman and Kufr-Masha Allah-mahram " ( I m sorry but I am not a muslim).
The people in Europe have been reacted. And these reactions - this fighting against to their goverment is the most important than the result. And be sure that all these goverments which ignore their people will be panish in near future: I mean the ellections votes. Voting is the great power for people in Europe. And I am sure that all these people will use it in a good way to punish these goverments.
And we also must think this:
Hundrends of doctors from European countries risking their lifes went to Palestine and Iraque to help the people
Hundrends of european citizens adupted economically children from Iraque and Palestine
Tonnes of medicines have been sent and also food and money
And all this help was from "poor" christian european people to the muslim's brothers in Middle East. Cause all in this earth we are children from the same God. Permit me to say again and again: it is not a war between christian and muslims - it is not a war between diferrent manners of life. IT IS A WAR FOR ENERGY.
As you see USA attacked only to those countries which have energy's sources.
The real enemy for USA is not the Arabia. But the European Union. So USA wants to exterminate the European Union. The only way to succed this is to let Europe without energy. So USA's plan is to control the energy in Middle East, cause Middle East feed with energy the Europe.
About Sheikh Binladin: yes I admire him and respect him and I believe that is a really hero. BUT also I am an educated person, so I have my thoughts too. If we want to support our Sheikh we must at first correct his errors. Cause only God is without errors.
Dear Arab's friends - dear Muslim's friends please at first accept our friendship, don't be racism with all the other people who have different religion. The most important is to be someone FAITH whatever he belongs. And if you want to win the USA's arrogance one day, you must to think as they do, if you want to catch them. We give you our west thoughts and mind to use them both against to the USA's falcons. Accept our help, accept us as your brothers and sisters for a common aid. Cause SheikhBinladin - God bless him- is our herro too.
By Umm on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:45 pm: Edit
The Shaykh never had non-mahram female friends, so we know the worthlessness of this book.
As for this wonder-woman fighting in Palestine after years of torture, well, excuse me for sniggering. I don't buy it for one second.
If she had sufficient emaan [faith] to withstand torture and engage in the Jihaad, one would hardly expect her to write a book full of lies about such a religious person Masha'Allah.
So who are you Alma Libra? Someone trying to do some cheap [or rather, free publicity]? Are you her agent, or are you the real author of such drivel?
Regards,
Umm.
By May Hakim on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:18 am: Edit
Hello, I'm May Hakim, I am a total Idiot.Please Ignore me I talk total nonsense.
By Alma_Libre on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:44 am: Edit
Dear Miss Umm,
you speak about Sheikh as you are the real Sheikh!!
Anyway if Sheikh has a friend it is his buisness not ours. We know that Sheikh is a herro, a religius man, a faith one BUT remember he is also a man if you don't mind!!!If he permitted to published this book, that means he accept this book, so we have not any reason to react about.
May I ask you a question? Why muslim women feel so much jalousy for western women? Western women are mothers-sisters-daughters-wives as you. Don't blame them. Cause you have not reason to blame them at all. They respect you so you must respect them too.
And if you admire and respect Sheikh you have accept his choises and his wishes. Hope God always protect our Sheikh.
By Umm on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 06:26 am: Edit
Alma,
1) So Usamah bin Laden permitted this book? This just gets funnier and funnier. Well, Maybe the Bush Admin will be knocking on your door to asssist them in finding Shaykh Usamah, as their own military wal-lillaahil hamd, is too dumb to do so themselves.
2) Muslim women do NOT feel jealousy at non-Muslim women, they feel PITY for them, got that?
I was myself a non-Muslim before, and so I think I know enough about the Western culture/values to be able to reject it for the falsehood that it is.
3) On the contrary it is the western women [not all, but a fair amount] who feel THREATENED by the veil. If I ever do get comments about my veil, the majority of the time it is from women, not men. Why are these women so offended if I veil? It is because they do not understand how to think for themselves. Society tells them to undress and get male attention, and that is what they live for. As a result they cannot understand Muslim women dressing in a way to detract men, as this is not something their tiny minds can grasp. And this type of non-Muslim woman [not the few who actually understand things and admire the status of the woman in Islam] certainly do not respect Muslim women.
Muslim women do not need the perverted stares of strange men to bulid their confidence. The Western woman is riddled with insecurites and that is why anorexia and bulimia are western ailments.
Anyway, as for being the Shaykh, well no, I am not Usamah bin Laden [and no May Hakim, before you ask, I wasn't him in a past life either], but I am writing about him because it is a case of defending the reputation of a Muslim. Whether he is famous or not, a Shaykh or not, a Muslim woman or man is irrelevant. We share the same shahaadah, and that gives him and all Muslims rights upon each-other.
Umm.
By May Hakim on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 12:39 am: Edit
Wearing the veil can be quite lovely. Whatever you wear, it's important to feel like you look nice. I'm not talking about vanity.
For someone new in Islam, this is quite a radical crowd you run with.
By Alma_Libre on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 08:29 am: Edit
Dear muslim women
let be frank, let be no more hidding behind your fingers.
As I see, you (I mean the women) are the only one who react to this book. And you know why? Cause you cannot accept that a muslim man (in our case our Sheikh-and permit me to call him our) prefer to be friend with a non muslim women.
As a psychoanalyst I can understand this jealousy. I can understand that there are a lot of women in muslim population who are in love with Sheikh and now they feel angry with this non-muslim woman who is his friend.
By the way could you ever thought what means FRIENDSHIP?
Could you ever understand that "YES THERE IS PURE FRIENDSHIP between a man and a woman"?
Anyway you maybe understand this if you ever taste the feeling of real freedom.
And what is freedom? Freedom is to rule yourself. It is a very high level feeling.
The women in west have this freedom. They can choose their study, their education, their husband. They can rule their country. They can DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES. They can look the peoples in eyes, they must not hidden so they are honest. They win prices : Nobel prices ( I hope that you know Maria Curie or Mother Teresa).
No we are not anorecting as you want to believe.
But we are in a good body fit. And as the Ancient Greeks said (I hope you have read Aristoteles) : if someone have good mind then have a good body too.
Dear women there is a whole world infront the velo. And believe me: the clear people,have clear mind and clear face. However the west women never accuse the muslim about their velo, why are accuse the western then?
In our subject now: every health woman likes to be beatiful in the eyes of the men (if you think honesty you will accept this). That's the reason that million of women have a dream to be like Sindy or Shiffer. Could anyone remember Cleopatra? So it is time no pretend any more.
And about our Sheikh:As Great man belongs to the whole world, so don't put on him limits. And also don't believe that God divide the people to muslims and christians or buddest etc. And as the the Sheikh said: there is only faith and not faith people, good or bad. And all the religions have bad or good, faith or not faith.
Try to think open minded, try to think without passion, try to think free. COUSE IF SOMEONE THINKS FREEE THEN HE/SHE THINKS IN GOOD.
By Umm Hanifah on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 05:00 pm: Edit
Dear, dear, foolish Alama, do you think you can teach us, Muslims our religion. We don't take anything from non-muslims, not even your dirty pork or filthy life style. Not from those who don't know their left hand from their right. The disbelievers are the people that Allah (swt) has promised the fire if they die in that state of disbelief. Allah (swt) in the Quran warns us about the nature of the dibelievers,
[33.48] "And be not compliant to the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and leave unregarded their annoying
talk, and rely on Allah; and Allah is sufficient as a Protector."
[5.49] "And that you should judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires, and be cautious of them, lest they seduce you from part of what Allah has revealed to you; but if they turn back, then know that Allah desires to afflict them on account of some of their faults; and most surely many of the people are transgressors."
[3.149] "O you who believe! if you obey those who disbelieve they will turn you back upon your heels, so you will turn back losers."
So please don't tell me about friendship between men and women when Allah has defined it for us. Allah (swt) has not left anything to us to differ about and use our limited minds to define.
In Islam men and women are not allowed to talk to the opposite sex or even look at them forget make friends. Don't think us so stupid that we will accept your slander about OUR SHIEK. He has made his stance clear against the infadels which includes jews and chritians and anyone who believes in a religion/way of life other than Islam.
Allah (swt) tells us
[3.85] "And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."
And for you information we Muslim women we do love shiek Osamah because its an obligation on Muslims to love and hate for the sake of Allah (swt). We love, alliance, support all Muslims and we hate, disassociate ourselves, reject denounce all kufr and taghoot.
So women in the west are free are they? Free to be raped every 20 sec in USA and every 3 minutes in UK. Free to murder unborn babies, free to live according to thier animalistic instincts. Nobody is free, if freedom existed there would be chaos. There must be laws and rules to govern society. If u had true freedom then you would be able to do what you want, when you want, how you want, with who you want.And we all know that, that is impossible. That would mean a peadophile could abuse children beacuse its his/her freedom. Please don't try and feed us this freedom rubbish, you obviously don't even understand what the word means. I suggest you go look it up in a dictionery. Nobody is free your either a slave to man or slave to God.
Muslims women have chosen to submit to the creator of man life and universe not a man because he wears trousers.
Muslim women use the brain that Allah has given us and channel the instincts in the correct manner as prescribed by Allah and not to please men or animals.
I suggest you stop polluting the islamic discussion board with your rubbish, we are not interested in your western trash.
I hope that Allah guides you to the truth.
By sister on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 02:12 pm: Edit
To non muslim woman Libra
As muslims our belief tells us that if a man and a woman are alone in a room then the third is shaytan, so we do not believe that it's possible for a man and a woman to be just friends and this is why Allah tells us in the Qur'an to not approach zina (illegal sexual intercourse). From what I've been told, the issue of illegal male and female relations is something that Allah hasn't told us to just leave, but rather He has told us to not even APPROACH it, i.e to leave such contact that would inevitably lead to it. This is what makes us different to you because Allah is our Creator and has created the nature of man and woman and He is telling us what the man and woman relationship should be, which for us is the best reference point for our actions, rather than your limited "free" mind.
Like sister Umm said, by your words you are slandering Sheikh Usama and as muslims we are required to defend the honour of our brother in his absence.
From what I can see 3 people have responded to your trash, 2 women (including myself) and one brother. I don't think your'e a very good psycho analyst because you make very quick and shallow conclusions and you ignore the reality of our responses which we try to explain to you. Maybe the brothers don't answer because they think it's better for sisters to reply to a woman rather than themselves, and myself and sister Umm already gave you our reasons, which you ignore and instead make your'e shallow conclusions about jealousy.
From our nature as humanbeings we want to be seen as attractive, but again Allah shows us through his religion Islam how we can regulate the desires that we have, so yes we want to be told we look nice, but instead of letting any 'tom, dick or harry' view our beauty leading to many problems in society, we are satsified with revealing it to just our husbands. Again, this is something that makes us very different to you, because you accept that you have certain desires and then you let them run free like animals do, but we muslims regulate our desires and satisfy them the way our religion teaches us.
You don't have the freedom to rule yourself, because instead of being a slave to God and His laws you have become a slave to your own desires and the whisperings of Shaytan, for wherever your desires lead you, you slavishly follow.
As for the issue of education and having the right to choose your own husband, these are rights that have been given to us muslim women by God already. I don't quite understand what it is you like about Sheikh Usama, because you seem to disagree with everything he stands for stemming from his belief as a muslim. We didn't put any limits on him, rather God put limits on us and him with regards to our behaviour, and since we know him to be a man who is true to his religion (Masha Allah) we don't accept what you say about him, especially since you are a disbeliever and our belief teaches us that if a fasiq (a person rebellious and disobedient to Allah) gives us news about a muslim we need to verify it, so where does that leave the news about a muslim given by a non muslim?
And finally, as muslims we define good and bad according to how God defines what is good and bad, not what our minds decide.
By Samer on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 09:14 pm: Edit
Salams,
That was the first meeting with him. I was eighteen years old and he was twenty-six...................................."
Sheikh usama was 26....i didnt get it....as far as i know he left for afghanistan to fight against Soviet Union when he was just 20 or around 20, so when he was 26, what he was doing then in university by then.....plz clarify me if i am mistaken.
Waslam
By Alma_Libre on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:53 am: Edit
Why so much hysterical reaction?
Why so much non-educational behaviour?
Miss Umm you are young enough but at least did u ever have been teached to behave like a lady and not with sailor's blessings? You can disagree with my or anyone's thoughts BUT you have to be polite. And as a good muslim you want to be, try to have some respect to the oldest.
And you, Miss Sister, do you think that you have all these efforts to cricize a Professor Psychoanalyst?
Young ladies try to be more decorums and more shyness. Do you think that hidden behind a velo you can say anything you want?
Do you think that you become good wearing only a velo?
No, cause the God wants to have a good and pure soul, an open heart for the people and not only a hidden face.
Try to think in peace, try to think clear.
And now I am asking:
You, young ladies who want to defence Sheikh, what have you done for him?
You done absolutely nothing, except to stay infront a computer and using bad and unpolite words.
What have you done for jihhad, each of you?
Again nothing.
What have you done about the Palestine, Iraq?
Nothing, nothing, nothing.............
Young ladies if you want to be pround for yourselves and your religion go out and fight. Fight your really enemy, not me: cause I am not your enemy.
And by the way try to read more carefully, my name is not Alama or Libra!!!!Please read and write correct the names at least!!!!
So go out and fight for the rights, the right to have the people their land, their freedom. Sheikh gave his soul for these properties. Follow him, respect him, fight for him. And I wish you,young ladies to meet him one day, to take from him his blessings. And then if you have the great honour to meet this Great herro, ask him what means Alma_Libre.
_____________
Mr Sameer, peace be upon you
I try to solve your wonder : the writer said that she was a student not the Sheikh. Sheikh was just with his friend Muchtar. Sheikh was not student. if you read the book you will understand. If you want anything to clarify I am in your disposal.
By sister on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 11:24 pm: Edit
The man, who I got knew, almost twenty years before.......
(which is around 1983)
From the book “Declaration Of War - Expel The Infidels From The Arabian Peninsula”
"Then in 1979, just after he graduated from King Abdul Aziz University in Jeddah with a degree in Civil Engineering, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, and the Mujahideen put out an international plea for help. Usama bin Laden responded by packing himself and several of his family's bulldozers off to Afghanistan."
http://www.as-sabeel.com/profiles/muj/UBLBiog1.htm
By sister on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 04:06 am: Edit
Ms. Alma Libre, as muslims we love and hate for the sake of Allah. All we have done is to disagree with your slandering of our brother, I don't recall anyone using any bad language or speaking impolitely except to use the word 'trash' to describe your book, which really does feel like the most appropriate word to use to describe it's contents.
I think you find it difficult for people to criticize your views because your 'education and profession' have created in you an arrogant and elitist mentality where you think you are better than the rest of us. As muslims we learn not to suffer from this handicap of yours, because it's our understanding of our religion, our love and fear of our Creator and our ability to understand the reality based on what our religion teaches us that makes us worthy people not a PhD. So regardless of whether my education is higher or lower than that of a "Professor Psychoanalyst" I can and will disagree with your shallow evaluation of our comments, which didn't sound very professional at all, but rather sounded like a cheap shot to get us on the defensive, a lot like your last post as well
Also, wearing the veil doesn't mean that we become meek, timid creatures unable to speak the truth regarding our religion. Our religion and the example of the Mothers of the believers and the Sahabiyaat teaches us to be able to speak with courage and speak the truth, this is not the same as what you are accusing us of, of not having any decorum or shyness. We are shy to do what our religion prohibits and what our God dislikes, but speaking the word of truth is not being without shyness.
Just out of curiosity, how is it that someone can accurately spell 'non-educational behaviour, hysterical, Psychoanalyst' but can't spell 'hero', and uses a high level of English except to miss a few words here and there or to sometimes twist them around. Almost no grammatical errors are to be found in these sentences.
"Permit me dear Mr."Osi" to have my objections.
-You can't cricize from one page, when the book is more than 400pages. And by the way it is not a romance book, but a book speaking about fighting. It's a book about a pure and deep friendship and admiring and not loving affairs. Why you always think that between a man and woman there is only loving affairs? "
And, "Hundrends of doctors from European countries risking their lifes went to Palestine and Iraque to help the people
Hundrends of european citizens adupted economically children from Iraque and Palestine
Tonnes of medicines have been sent and also food and money
And all this help was from "poor" christian european people to the muslim's brothers in Middle East. Cause all in this earth we are children from the same God. Permit me to say again and again: it is not a war between christian and muslims - it is not a war between diferrent manners of life. IT IS A WAR FOR ENERGY. "
And then you find,
"let be frank, let be no more hidding behind your fingers".
May, how many aliases do you have?
By sister on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 12:40 pm: Edit
Actually May, after reading your post regarding my sisters Umm and Hanifah, I really am not interested in reading your reply. A word of advice, it's best to keep your fantasies to yourself, rather than put them up on a discussion board for the world to read, claiming them to be a biography. How embarrassing. Admin, please don't put up any more of her comments, because when she does say something we feel like we have to reply to defend our deen or someone's honour.
By Samer on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:09 pm: Edit
Salams,.
But question still remains.......bin ladin left for afghanitan when he was just 22.......and then talking to a girl.......before begin mujahid.....there is possibility......i dont think he had any friend after becoming practically relegious......God knows the best.
Samer
By Umm Hanifah on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:32 pm: Edit
Alma, I am not even gonna bother wasting my breath on you. you are not worth my time and i will not dignify you with a response to your slander.
I think enough is enough! We have tried to explain the deen of Islam, convey the truth and protect out Muslims brothers and sisters. We should not allow Alma to mock the Allah's deen by attributing falsehood to Islaam, the Sheik and Muslims sisters. I think Admin you should take Sister's advice and not allow any more rubbish to dominate an islamic discussion board.
Jazakumullah khayr
By ........ on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 12:25 am: Edit
As muslims we would never judge a person based on their past when maybe their understanding of deen was weak, but instead we would look to their current actions and behaviour, for people repent and Allah (swt) is the One Who Forgives. Also, we are only human as is Sheikh Usama and all the mujahideen and none of us are 'angels' hence we are liable to fall into error, make mistakes and even sin. The Messenger of Allah (saw) would always make dua to Allah (SWT) the One Who changes the hearts to keep his heart firm on the deen. But like sister Umm pointed out initially, Sheikh Usama had an Islamic upbringing and the 'book' above is slandering him. It comes from the sick imagination of May Hakim/Alma Libre/Mira, as you can see her real style of writing come through eventhough she tried to hide it with her Laurence of Arabia meets the Days of the British Raj type of speech plus grammatical errors.
Subhan Allah, the lengths that the enemies of Allah go through to slander his slaves and to confuse this ummah. I would pray for Allah's curse on her but I've found out that there is a difference of opinion regarding whether it is permitted to curse a particular individual or not. Everyone is agreed that it is permitted to curse the disbelievers, or oppressors as a nation, but when it comes to cursing individuals there are two opinions-one saying it's ok the other one saying no (something to do with the fact that when you send 'Lana' on a person what you are doing is praying for this person to be outside Allah's mercy, so for Allah (SWT) to have no mercy on them) . That's all I really know so I can't discuss it or the evidences in any detail. Maybe someone else knows the issue in more detail. So to be on the safe side:
Lanat Allah 'Ala Qawmil Kaafireen.
By Umm on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 07:19 am: Edit
"........", the following hadith suffices:
The Prophet (pbuh) said: "`O Allah! Punish Abu Jahl, ‘Utbah ibn Rabi‘ah, Shaibah ibn Rabi‘ah, Al-Waleed ibn ‘Utbah, Umayyah ibn Khalaf, and ‘Uqbah ibn Abi Mu‘it’. And he mentioned the seventh whose name I cannot recall. By Allah, I saw the dead bodies of those persons who were counted by Allah’s Apostle (pbuh) in the Qulaib (one of the wells) of Badr” (Bukhari and Muslim).
He (SAW) named individuals.
However, we can do a collective curse on Alma_Libre and her sort. We say what our Lord ordered us to say: "mutoo' bighaydhikum" (perish in your rage)
Alma Libre, disagreeing with your trasy book does not make us those who are ill-mannered. I hardly think that an indifel like you, who obviously has an obsession with the Shaykh, is in a positon to tell us what Muslims should and should not do.
No, you do not become "good" only by wearing a veil, and we never suggested that.
Quote:
"No, cause the God wants to have a good and pure soul,..."
1st sensible thing you have said.
Quote:
"an open heart for the people"
What does that mean? We are not told to love all people. We are told to have love for the believers, and enmity towards the disbelievers in their disobedience regarding the commands of Allah. Love for a non Muslim parent/child etc is allowed, but we do not love their way of life.
Quote:
"You, young ladies who want to defence Sheikh, what have you done for him?
You done absolutely nothing, except to stay infront a computer and using bad and unpolite words.
What have you done for jihhad, each of you?
Again nothing.
What have you done about the Palestine, Iraq?
Nothing, nothing, nothing.............
Young ladies if you want to be pround for yourselves and your religion go out and fight. Fight your really enemy, not me: cause I am not your enemy."
It is not sanctioned for the women of the Ummah to fight when there are more than enough men.
Shaykh Usamah does not give "blessings". He is not a person with divine powers, and we do not worship him.
Sister, I am so glad you and the brother pointed out that about her ever-chasnging literary [if it can be called that!] style. I was wondering how she could say "diatribe" but appears not to be able to spell hero ["herro"]
Alma_Libre, we are not in love with Shaykh Usamah, we only admire his character and fataawa [although in your case it might be something else...]
As Sister said Masha'Allah, we follow the Laws of Allah, and there is no such concept of platonic relationships in Islam between the oppostite sex.
Umm Hanifa and others have answered your pathetic points, yet still you are full of venom.
We have no need to ask the Shaykh what Alma_Libre means,it means "free soul" in Spanish. I, however, would change your profile to "Alma desquilibrado" were I the admin of this board .
wa-salaam,
Umm.
By Umm on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 07:26 am: Edit
sorry, infidel, not "indifel". Alma's writing style must be contagious..
By alma_libre on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 02:19 am: Edit
Sameer peace be upon you.
As I have read in the book (I am sorry but I am not the writter, I am just a reader)I think that Sheikh was visiting his friend Muchtar and meanwhile he met the writter too. It was just a meeting, nothing more. I would feel glad if I managed to answer your question.
_________________________________________
To all these angry girls:
You can ask the administrator to do what? To stop express the people their free oppinion? If you don't like someone or something you think that it is right to destroy it? Where is the free expression of someone's thoughts?
By the way none of you answered the question what have you done about Sheikh and Jihaad.
Why do you think that anybody here needs your protection? Are you the "Three bodyguards"? But the French revolution was many many years ago!!!!
Anyway girls you represent your best self, but was not enough. One of the most important thinks it is to respect the others opinion even we don't agree with it. Have a nice day girls, and try to be more cool next time. (For your information : I am not May or any other you think, I am just me. I repeat again: ask Sheikh or someone fighter what means "alma_libre", then you will find the true)
By jihadi on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 03:05 pm: Edit
"By the way none of you answered the question what have you done about Sheikh and Jihaad."
MI5 must be really slumming it to ask such blatent questions. Take a hike alma_libra.
By ask Sheikh? on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 06:08 pm: Edit
"ask Sheikh or someone fighter what means "alma_libre", then you will find the true"
On the way to doing my weekly shopping at the local supermarket, I'll remember to pop in to his house and ask him (!!??).
By Ibn Javed on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 01:21 am: Edit
Dear Mrs (Self-) Professed Psychotic-Annihilist,
Please read the name correctly, his name is not "Sameer" but "Samer" (actually reading the posts he's probably you as well...)
By Curtis Old on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 07:23 pm: Edit
Hello all, my name is Curtis, I have been trying to learn about the things that separate us, us I mean the people of east and west. I have been trying to learn more about Islam, and what Mohammad's followers are feeling, and thinking. So please have patients with me, thank you.
Umm Said
"In Islam men and women are not allowed to talk to the opposite sex or even look at them forget make friends. Don't think us so stupid that we will accept your slander about OUR SHIEK. He has made his stance clear against the infadels which includes jews and chritians and anyone who believes in a religion/way of life other than Islam."
I being a Christian have never been told not to treat anybody differently because of their religion, or faith. Nor have I ever been told to look at anyone differently because of other factors of race or sex. Do I understand it correctly that in Islam it is written that followers of any other faith are not followers of Allah(God, or Jehovah to some)? Is Allah not the same Master that the Jews and Christians follow? Are you saying that the messengers in the Torah, the Bible, get it all wrong in Allah's "eyes" and with Mohammad get it right in the Quran? How could Allah, or God, or Jehovah ever get anything wrong? Why would/could this happen? If we all follow the same Master, why are we not all following the same message? Confused.
Thank You for your time and understanding
By Umm on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 04:58 pm: Edit
Erm, I don't know why people on this board have such a thing for attributing quotes to me that I never said, but Curtis Old, it was Umm Hanifah who said that. But if you don't mind, I had the following observations to make
Quote:
I being a Christian have never been told not to treat anybody differently because of their religion, or faith.
Old Testament:
What was David's dowry according to the Bible? Slaying 200 Filistines and removing a part of each of their bodys to present to the King. 1 Sam. 18:25
[2 King 5:15] THERE IS NO GOD IN ALL THE EARTH, BUT IN ISRAEL.
New Testanment:
Gal. 2:15] Paul said, "We ourselves, who are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners."
Hardly love thy neighbour, is it now?
Quote:
Nor have I ever been told to look at anyone differently because of other factors of race or sex.
We covered difference in religions/race above, now as to differences in gender:
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." (I Tim. 2:11-14)
http://www.afi.org.uk/other/t/biblespeak.html#3
Quote:
Do I understand it correctly that in Islam it is written that followers of any other faith are not followers of Allah(God, or Jehovah to some)? Is Allah not the same Master that the Jews and Christians follow? Are you saying that the messengers in the Torah, the Bible, get it all wrong in Allah's "eyes" and with Mohammad get it right in the Quran?
The Qur'an says this:
"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"
Strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, 'We are Christians': because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. (The Noble Quran, 5:82)"
And it has been related by our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) that:
"Three persons will have a double reward: 1. A Person from the people of the scriptures who believed in his prophet (Jesus or Moses) and then believed in the Prophet Muhammad (i.e. has embraced Islam). 2. A slave who discharges his duties to Allah and his master. 3. A master of a woman-slave who teaches her good manners and educates her in the best possible way (the religion) and manumits her and then marries her." (Sahih Bukhari 1.97)
Quote:
How could Allah, or God, or Jehovah ever get anything wrong? Why would/could this happen?
The previous scriptures were not preserved as tey were for a particualr people, for a particular time. The Qur'an was preserved as it is for all people, for all time.
Quote:
If we all follow the same Master, why are we not all following the same message?
Is the Hindu worshipping an elephant idol (and 100's of others!) following the same path as the one only praying directly to Allah, without intercessor?
By Curtis Old on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 06:55 pm: Edit
Umm thank you for your response, sorry if it seemed to be directed towards you, it was not meant as such, forgive me.
You have brought up some interesting points, could you clarify:
"Three persons will have a double reward: 1. A Person from the people of the scriptures who believed in his prophet (Jesus or Moses) and then believed in the Prophet Muhammad (i.e. has embraced Islam). 2. A slave who discharges his duties to Allah and his master. 3. A master of a woman-slave who teaches her good manners and educates her in the best possible way (the religion) and manumits her and then marries her." (Sahih Bukhari 1.97)
In the first instance I take the (i.e. has embraced Islam) was added by you? Or is this an interpretation by others? If I read the statement by you provided with out this it reads:
"Three persons will have a double reward: 1. A Person from the people of the scriptures who believed in his prophet (Jesus or Moses) and then believed in the Prophet Muhammad.
That would suggest that people of faith, that believed in Jesus or Moses, and Then believed in the Prophet Muhammad would receive a double reward, or would it mean to receive a double reward one must be a Christian or a Jew first then convert to Islam? Or Does this mean that prophets Jesus and or Moses, and the faiths (Chritianity, or Judisum) associated with those prophets mean nothing?
"How could Allah, or God, or Jehovah ever get anything wrong? Why would/could this happen?
The previous scriptures were not preserved as tey were for a particualr people, for a particular time. The Qur'an preserved as it is for all people, for all time. "
I don't see how this answers the question, are you suggesting that the Bible and the Torah, were only written for times passed, for a people whom no longer exist? Was not Abraham the father of the tribes that created Muslims, Christians, and Jews? Were not these children following the same Lord, and his messages via the Prophets? Please explain, thank you.
"If we all follow the same Master, why are we not all following the same message?
Is the Hindu worshipping an elephant idol (and 100's of others!) following the same path as the one only praying directly to Allah, without intercessor? "
Sorry maybe I should have been a little clearer, when I made that statement I was referring to the Lord of Abraham, the Lord that all Muslims, Christians, and Jews call their Master. Why is it that our Lord has a different path/messages for his people?
Again, I'm trying to understand, and thank you for everyones time reading my post.
One other question, should I move these type of questions to another topic/category ?
By Umm Hanifah on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 08:53 pm: Edit
Hello Curtis,
Since you have quoted me I think it’s only right that I answer your reservations and makes things clear for you.
You Said
"I being a Christian have never been told not to treat anybody differently because of their religion, or faith. Nor have I ever been told to look at anyone differently because of other factors of race or sex. Do I understand it correctly that in Islam it is written that followers of any other faith are not followers of Allah(God, or Jehovah to some)? Is Allah not the same Master that the Jews and Christians follow? Are you saying that the messengers in the Torah, the Bible, get it all wrong in Allah's "eyes" and with Mohammad get it right in the Quran? How could Allah, or God, or Jehovah ever get anything wrong? Why would/could this happen? If we all follow the same Master, why are we not all following the same message?"
First of all Islam is the religion from Allah (swt) and the religion that has been prescribed for mankind. It is the religion brought by all the Prophets of God and it has been called so by Allah (swt) in the Quran unlike Christianity and Judaism.
Neither the Jewish scripture nor torah have identified the name of the religion brought by the messengers of god. Neither Christianity nor Judaism can be the name of the religion brought by the prophets because these names were not known in the eras of all the prophets. Judaism comes from the name of a region, Judea & Christianity from a translation of a title given to Jesus, Christ (a Greek word meaning anointed).
“This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion..” [5:3]
The word Islam means obedience and complete submission to the will of God so the Arabic term Islam accurately describes the religion of all the prophets which was calling to the oneness of God and oneness in his worship.
3.65] “O followers of the Book! why do you dispute about Ibrahim, when the Taurat and the Injeel were not revealed till after him; do you not then understand?”
[3.67] “Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists.”
So all the prophets including Jesus and Moses were Muslim as they all submitted to the will of God. They all followed the same religion of Monotheism, the religion of Abraham and Muhammed, the last and final prophet who brought the completed message.
“This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion..” [5:3]
The quran addresses this reality by declaring Islam as the only religion prescribed for mankind.
[3.19] Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.
So the only true religion from Allah is Islam and he says in the Quran
[3.85] And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
[61.9] He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion, that He may make it overcome the religions, all of them, though the polytheists may be averse.
Allah (swt) did not make a mistake, Allah almighty the creator of all creatures sent prophets throughout time to bring people back to the worship of one god. However, after the death of Prophet Jesus people began to worship him instead of the Lord that he and his disciples worshipped. As did the Jews, who changed the message brought to them by Moses.
19.88-95] And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son. Certainly you have made an abominable assertion. The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces, That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God. And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son. There is no one in the heavens and the earth but will come to the Beneficent God as a servant. Certainly He has a comprehensive knowledge of them and He has numbered them a (comprehensive) numbering. And every one of them will come to Him on the day of resurrection alone.
[3.59] Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was. (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of the disputers.
[5.75] The Messiah, son of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food. See how We make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away.
Islam is the most just way of life and it does not discriminate against anybody or anything that is from Allah (swt). Muslims and non-Muslims lived side by side for 1400 years under the Islamic State. The non-Muslims were considered citizens of the Islamic State and enjoyed the same rights and protection. Unlike in the west there is no such thing as ethnic minorities in Islam.
Ibn Hazm a great scholar of Islam stated “That it would be our duty to protect the people of the Dhimma (non-Muslim citizens) if aggressors attacked our land and we should die protecting them if necessary, any neglect of such a duty would be a breach of the rights of the non-Muslims citizens.”
By bint Ahmed on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 09:41 pm: Edit
Assalam aliekum
Sorry for my interupting but as Curtis suggested ADMIN its a good idea to move this topic to another thread.
The topic of the so called book is just fitna and this thread should be locked.
Dear Brothers and Sisters I represent you a small piece from the book "Osi, the great man" . All the benefits of this book will given to the palestinian and iraqi orphans. As the writter said, it is a book "from her heart for all these people who fight for the freedom and peace"
"I ought to write a few words, for this splendid man.
The man, who I got knew, almost twenty years before................
Twenty years of distress for his life.........
Twenty years of prayer for him.......
Twenty years of hope to be his dream true.
Many people speak about him, without know him at all. They remove conclusions on his life, however most of them are lies. And these make me angry a lot, cause my dearest Sheiikh doesn't reserve such a confrontal . A lot of people using his name, in order to express their own opinions.
However God gave me the honour to knew this man, to feel and to ache with him.
This little book has been written for you Osi and for all these young people around the world, who love and admire you.
.................................................. .................................................. ......
It was a midday of April, hardly we had finished the morning courses in the university. One Palestinian fellow-student, Muchtar, asked me to help him in physics lesson during our lunch's break. So, we went to university library for studying.
After a little, a very tall man entered the room and approached the Muchtar, speaking in Arabics. I did not understand neither a word.
Muchtar then turned to my side and introduced me the foreigner:
-Here is my friend, Osama, he said.
-This is the first time that I meet so much tall person, Mr Osama, I aswered.
The Arab looked me suprised and then he smiled and said
- And this is my first time, that I meet a girl studying mechanical engineering!
That was the first meeting with him. I was eighteen years old and he was twenty-six...................................."
To be continue
By Umm on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 04:30 pm: Edit
What a pathetic book. What is it, knights of Arabia meets Jackie collins' trash?
Please spare us any further reviews of this sort.
Umm.
By sister on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 05:53 pm: Edit
Alhamdulillah sis. I was thinking the same thing. You feel ashamed reading it coz you think your'e reading a romance novel rather than a biography. I think it's wrong to talk about someone's past the way she is. And how do we know it's true anyway? And even if it was I don't want to know about it and I don't think anyone muslim should either. I'm sure no one here would like someone to write a book on the things they did and said when they were at college or university, when maybe their understanding of the deen wasn't as clear as it is now.
By Umm on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 10:58 pm: Edit
Sis, it is not true. It is slander. Shaykh Usamah was religious even in his youth. It is western lies that he was educated in europe or the States and had a playboy lifestyle in his youth.
By sister on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 11:14 pm: Edit
Jazak Allah khair sis. I was told the exactly the same thing by someone else, that he had an Islamic upbringing and was not educated in the west. After September 11th in the days when I still used to watch documentaries on the TV, the kufaar tried to put on programmes with such filth. What makes me sick about this one is the "All the benefits of this book will given to the palestinian and iraqi orphan." Just another in a long list of dirty tactics used to create doubts in our minds regarding our mujahideen.
By Ibn Javed on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:21 am: Edit
As-salaamu alaikum,
Yes, and there is an interview online somewhere of Usamah's brother, who spoke about his youth and his efforts in enjoining the good and forbidding the evil within the family and home.
Wassalaam
By Alma_Libre on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:38 am: Edit
What is true or what is lie nobody knows. Or maybe only one knows what happened or not. Nobody never said that Bin Laden have been educated in Europe (and as I know the education never is a problem whatever it comes). And by the way is too hothead who criticize a book without reading it. However, there are not all the western people enemies, maybe the real enemies must be found somewhere else. And as you remembered very recently my dear brothers and sisters, the european citizens reacted very much about the war to Iraq. On the contrary there was not enough reaction in muslim countries.
Let's see the things in reality: There is not a war between christian and muslim. THERE IS ONLY ONE WAR: the oil and the sources of energy. This is the reality. USA attack to the Middle East only for the oil not for religion. It is time the arab nation to see the true, to react and also to accept all these people (unless their religion or citizenship) who want to help the freedodom and peace to the whole area
By Osi? on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:18 am: Edit
Alma, the first page you put up is enough for the book to be criticized. I find it very distateful that a woman thinks it's ok to write about her encounters with a non mahram man, especially when it's done in a sick Mills and Boon style. The words used Subhan Allah make me feel embarrassed. As muslims our respect for Sheikh Usama is from his efforts with regard to our deen and jihad. We already know about his upbringing and his traits as a young man. We already know that they were Masha Allah. So trying to tarnish his image while claiming to do the opposite is pretty low. And who is the author anyway? I don't think any sister who had any understanding of her deen would refer to a non mahram man as "Osi"
It is true that many people in the West were against the war in Iraq. But, as i'm sure you realised all the demonstrations, the shouting came to nothing. The "democratically" elected leaderships of these people ignored them and the United Nations and proceeded to commit their crimes against the Iraqi people. If anything all this should have made the civilian populations question whether democracy truly does exist in their countries and move towards resloving this issue. Instead most have become silent accomplices, due to observing what is happening and doing nothing or closing their eyes to what's happening as is the case with some who frequent this site. On the contrary, there was a lot of reaction fom the muslim countries-but not enough. It is true many of our problems are self inflicted because as muslims we do not understand many issues in our deen which would help give us the strength to remove our corrupt rulers and their corrupt rulers.
Also, i'm a bit confused. You are "plugging" a book that's supposed to show the "real" Sheikh Usama and shows admiration for him, but at the same time you seem to disagree with Sheikh Usama's basic philosopy (from his speeches)that this is a War between Iman and Kufr, Truth and Falsehood and a confrontation between two very different ways of life, not just an oil war.
By Alma_Libre on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 01:30 pm: Edit
Permit me dear Mr."Osi" to have my objections.
-You can't cricize from one page, when the book is more than 400pages. And by the way it is not a romance book, but a book speaking about fighting. It's a book about a pure and deep friendship and admiring and not loving affairs. Why you always think that between a man and woman there is only loving affairs?
So there is not any cinderella story in the book.
And about the author: she has been tortured enough from American inteligents and now you can find her fighting in Palestine. So I don't think that she deserves any diatribe.
I will be acknowledge to you if you explain to me what is the expressions "Subhan Allah -Iman and Kufr-Masha Allah-mahram " ( I m sorry but I am not a muslim).
The people in Europe have been reacted. And these reactions - this fighting against to their goverment is the most important than the result. And be sure that all these goverments which ignore their people will be panish in near future: I mean the ellections votes. Voting is the great power for people in Europe. And I am sure that all these people will use it in a good way to punish these goverments.
And we also must think this:
Hundrends of doctors from European countries risking their lifes went to Palestine and Iraque to help the people
Hundrends of european citizens adupted economically children from Iraque and Palestine
Tonnes of medicines have been sent and also food and money
And all this help was from "poor" christian european people to the muslim's brothers in Middle East. Cause all in this earth we are children from the same God. Permit me to say again and again: it is not a war between christian and muslims - it is not a war between diferrent manners of life. IT IS A WAR FOR ENERGY.
As you see USA attacked only to those countries which have energy's sources.
The real enemy for USA is not the Arabia. But the European Union. So USA wants to exterminate the European Union. The only way to succed this is to let Europe without energy. So USA's plan is to control the energy in Middle East, cause Middle East feed with energy the Europe.
About Sheikh Binladin: yes I admire him and respect him and I believe that is a really hero. BUT also I am an educated person, so I have my thoughts too. If we want to support our Sheikh we must at first correct his errors. Cause only God is without errors.
Dear Arab's friends - dear Muslim's friends please at first accept our friendship, don't be racism with all the other people who have different religion. The most important is to be someone FAITH whatever he belongs. And if you want to win the USA's arrogance one day, you must to think as they do, if you want to catch them. We give you our west thoughts and mind to use them both against to the USA's falcons. Accept our help, accept us as your brothers and sisters for a common aid. Cause SheikhBinladin - God bless him- is our herro too.
By Umm on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:45 pm: Edit
The Shaykh never had non-mahram female friends, so we know the worthlessness of this book.
As for this wonder-woman fighting in Palestine after years of torture, well, excuse me for sniggering. I don't buy it for one second.
If she had sufficient emaan [faith] to withstand torture and engage in the Jihaad, one would hardly expect her to write a book full of lies about such a religious person Masha'Allah.
So who are you Alma Libra? Someone trying to do some cheap [or rather, free publicity]? Are you her agent, or are you the real author of such drivel?
Regards,
Umm.
By May Hakim on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:18 am: Edit
Hello, I'm May Hakim, I am a total Idiot.Please Ignore me I talk total nonsense.
By Alma_Libre on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:44 am: Edit
Dear Miss Umm,
you speak about Sheikh as you are the real Sheikh!!
Anyway if Sheikh has a friend it is his buisness not ours. We know that Sheikh is a herro, a religius man, a faith one BUT remember he is also a man if you don't mind!!!If he permitted to published this book, that means he accept this book, so we have not any reason to react about.
May I ask you a question? Why muslim women feel so much jalousy for western women? Western women are mothers-sisters-daughters-wives as you. Don't blame them. Cause you have not reason to blame them at all. They respect you so you must respect them too.
And if you admire and respect Sheikh you have accept his choises and his wishes. Hope God always protect our Sheikh.
By Umm on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 06:26 am: Edit
Alma,
1) So Usamah bin Laden permitted this book? This just gets funnier and funnier. Well, Maybe the Bush Admin will be knocking on your door to asssist them in finding Shaykh Usamah, as their own military wal-lillaahil hamd, is too dumb to do so themselves.
2) Muslim women do NOT feel jealousy at non-Muslim women, they feel PITY for them, got that?
I was myself a non-Muslim before, and so I think I know enough about the Western culture/values to be able to reject it for the falsehood that it is.
3) On the contrary it is the western women [not all, but a fair amount] who feel THREATENED by the veil. If I ever do get comments about my veil, the majority of the time it is from women, not men. Why are these women so offended if I veil? It is because they do not understand how to think for themselves. Society tells them to undress and get male attention, and that is what they live for. As a result they cannot understand Muslim women dressing in a way to detract men, as this is not something their tiny minds can grasp. And this type of non-Muslim woman [not the few who actually understand things and admire the status of the woman in Islam] certainly do not respect Muslim women.
Muslim women do not need the perverted stares of strange men to bulid their confidence. The Western woman is riddled with insecurites and that is why anorexia and bulimia are western ailments.
Anyway, as for being the Shaykh, well no, I am not Usamah bin Laden [and no May Hakim, before you ask, I wasn't him in a past life either], but I am writing about him because it is a case of defending the reputation of a Muslim. Whether he is famous or not, a Shaykh or not, a Muslim woman or man is irrelevant. We share the same shahaadah, and that gives him and all Muslims rights upon each-other.
Umm.
By May Hakim on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 12:39 am: Edit
Wearing the veil can be quite lovely. Whatever you wear, it's important to feel like you look nice. I'm not talking about vanity.
For someone new in Islam, this is quite a radical crowd you run with.
By Alma_Libre on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 08:29 am: Edit
Dear muslim women
let be frank, let be no more hidding behind your fingers.
As I see, you (I mean the women) are the only one who react to this book. And you know why? Cause you cannot accept that a muslim man (in our case our Sheikh-and permit me to call him our) prefer to be friend with a non muslim women.
As a psychoanalyst I can understand this jealousy. I can understand that there are a lot of women in muslim population who are in love with Sheikh and now they feel angry with this non-muslim woman who is his friend.
By the way could you ever thought what means FRIENDSHIP?
Could you ever understand that "YES THERE IS PURE FRIENDSHIP between a man and a woman"?
Anyway you maybe understand this if you ever taste the feeling of real freedom.
And what is freedom? Freedom is to rule yourself. It is a very high level feeling.
The women in west have this freedom. They can choose their study, their education, their husband. They can rule their country. They can DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES. They can look the peoples in eyes, they must not hidden so they are honest. They win prices : Nobel prices ( I hope that you know Maria Curie or Mother Teresa).
No we are not anorecting as you want to believe.
But we are in a good body fit. And as the Ancient Greeks said (I hope you have read Aristoteles) : if someone have good mind then have a good body too.
Dear women there is a whole world infront the velo. And believe me: the clear people,have clear mind and clear face. However the west women never accuse the muslim about their velo, why are accuse the western then?
In our subject now: every health woman likes to be beatiful in the eyes of the men (if you think honesty you will accept this). That's the reason that million of women have a dream to be like Sindy or Shiffer. Could anyone remember Cleopatra? So it is time no pretend any more.
And about our Sheikh:As Great man belongs to the whole world, so don't put on him limits. And also don't believe that God divide the people to muslims and christians or buddest etc. And as the the Sheikh said: there is only faith and not faith people, good or bad. And all the religions have bad or good, faith or not faith.
Try to think open minded, try to think without passion, try to think free. COUSE IF SOMEONE THINKS FREEE THEN HE/SHE THINKS IN GOOD.
By Umm Hanifah on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 05:00 pm: Edit
Dear, dear, foolish Alama, do you think you can teach us, Muslims our religion. We don't take anything from non-muslims, not even your dirty pork or filthy life style. Not from those who don't know their left hand from their right. The disbelievers are the people that Allah (swt) has promised the fire if they die in that state of disbelief. Allah (swt) in the Quran warns us about the nature of the dibelievers,
[33.48] "And be not compliant to the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and leave unregarded their annoying
talk, and rely on Allah; and Allah is sufficient as a Protector."
[5.49] "And that you should judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires, and be cautious of them, lest they seduce you from part of what Allah has revealed to you; but if they turn back, then know that Allah desires to afflict them on account of some of their faults; and most surely many of the people are transgressors."
[3.149] "O you who believe! if you obey those who disbelieve they will turn you back upon your heels, so you will turn back losers."
So please don't tell me about friendship between men and women when Allah has defined it for us. Allah (swt) has not left anything to us to differ about and use our limited minds to define.
In Islam men and women are not allowed to talk to the opposite sex or even look at them forget make friends. Don't think us so stupid that we will accept your slander about OUR SHIEK. He has made his stance clear against the infadels which includes jews and chritians and anyone who believes in a religion/way of life other than Islam.
Allah (swt) tells us
[3.85] "And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."
And for you information we Muslim women we do love shiek Osamah because its an obligation on Muslims to love and hate for the sake of Allah (swt). We love, alliance, support all Muslims and we hate, disassociate ourselves, reject denounce all kufr and taghoot.
So women in the west are free are they? Free to be raped every 20 sec in USA and every 3 minutes in UK. Free to murder unborn babies, free to live according to thier animalistic instincts. Nobody is free, if freedom existed there would be chaos. There must be laws and rules to govern society. If u had true freedom then you would be able to do what you want, when you want, how you want, with who you want.And we all know that, that is impossible. That would mean a peadophile could abuse children beacuse its his/her freedom. Please don't try and feed us this freedom rubbish, you obviously don't even understand what the word means. I suggest you go look it up in a dictionery. Nobody is free your either a slave to man or slave to God.
Muslims women have chosen to submit to the creator of man life and universe not a man because he wears trousers.
Muslim women use the brain that Allah has given us and channel the instincts in the correct manner as prescribed by Allah and not to please men or animals.
I suggest you stop polluting the islamic discussion board with your rubbish, we are not interested in your western trash.
I hope that Allah guides you to the truth.
By sister on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 02:12 pm: Edit
To non muslim woman Libra
As muslims our belief tells us that if a man and a woman are alone in a room then the third is shaytan, so we do not believe that it's possible for a man and a woman to be just friends and this is why Allah tells us in the Qur'an to not approach zina (illegal sexual intercourse). From what I've been told, the issue of illegal male and female relations is something that Allah hasn't told us to just leave, but rather He has told us to not even APPROACH it, i.e to leave such contact that would inevitably lead to it. This is what makes us different to you because Allah is our Creator and has created the nature of man and woman and He is telling us what the man and woman relationship should be, which for us is the best reference point for our actions, rather than your limited "free" mind.
Like sister Umm said, by your words you are slandering Sheikh Usama and as muslims we are required to defend the honour of our brother in his absence.
From what I can see 3 people have responded to your trash, 2 women (including myself) and one brother. I don't think your'e a very good psycho analyst because you make very quick and shallow conclusions and you ignore the reality of our responses which we try to explain to you. Maybe the brothers don't answer because they think it's better for sisters to reply to a woman rather than themselves, and myself and sister Umm already gave you our reasons, which you ignore and instead make your'e shallow conclusions about jealousy.
From our nature as humanbeings we want to be seen as attractive, but again Allah shows us through his religion Islam how we can regulate the desires that we have, so yes we want to be told we look nice, but instead of letting any 'tom, dick or harry' view our beauty leading to many problems in society, we are satsified with revealing it to just our husbands. Again, this is something that makes us very different to you, because you accept that you have certain desires and then you let them run free like animals do, but we muslims regulate our desires and satisfy them the way our religion teaches us.
You don't have the freedom to rule yourself, because instead of being a slave to God and His laws you have become a slave to your own desires and the whisperings of Shaytan, for wherever your desires lead you, you slavishly follow.
As for the issue of education and having the right to choose your own husband, these are rights that have been given to us muslim women by God already. I don't quite understand what it is you like about Sheikh Usama, because you seem to disagree with everything he stands for stemming from his belief as a muslim. We didn't put any limits on him, rather God put limits on us and him with regards to our behaviour, and since we know him to be a man who is true to his religion (Masha Allah) we don't accept what you say about him, especially since you are a disbeliever and our belief teaches us that if a fasiq (a person rebellious and disobedient to Allah) gives us news about a muslim we need to verify it, so where does that leave the news about a muslim given by a non muslim?
And finally, as muslims we define good and bad according to how God defines what is good and bad, not what our minds decide.
By Samer on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 09:14 pm: Edit
Salams,
That was the first meeting with him. I was eighteen years old and he was twenty-six...................................."
Sheikh usama was 26....i didnt get it....as far as i know he left for afghanistan to fight against Soviet Union when he was just 20 or around 20, so when he was 26, what he was doing then in university by then.....plz clarify me if i am mistaken.
Waslam
By Alma_Libre on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:53 am: Edit
Why so much hysterical reaction?
Why so much non-educational behaviour?
Miss Umm you are young enough but at least did u ever have been teached to behave like a lady and not with sailor's blessings? You can disagree with my or anyone's thoughts BUT you have to be polite. And as a good muslim you want to be, try to have some respect to the oldest.
And you, Miss Sister, do you think that you have all these efforts to cricize a Professor Psychoanalyst?
Young ladies try to be more decorums and more shyness. Do you think that hidden behind a velo you can say anything you want?
Do you think that you become good wearing only a velo?
No, cause the God wants to have a good and pure soul, an open heart for the people and not only a hidden face.
Try to think in peace, try to think clear.
And now I am asking:
You, young ladies who want to defence Sheikh, what have you done for him?
You done absolutely nothing, except to stay infront a computer and using bad and unpolite words.
What have you done for jihhad, each of you?
Again nothing.
What have you done about the Palestine, Iraq?
Nothing, nothing, nothing.............
Young ladies if you want to be pround for yourselves and your religion go out and fight. Fight your really enemy, not me: cause I am not your enemy.
And by the way try to read more carefully, my name is not Alama or Libra!!!!Please read and write correct the names at least!!!!
So go out and fight for the rights, the right to have the people their land, their freedom. Sheikh gave his soul for these properties. Follow him, respect him, fight for him. And I wish you,young ladies to meet him one day, to take from him his blessings. And then if you have the great honour to meet this Great herro, ask him what means Alma_Libre.
_____________
Mr Sameer, peace be upon you
I try to solve your wonder : the writer said that she was a student not the Sheikh. Sheikh was just with his friend Muchtar. Sheikh was not student. if you read the book you will understand. If you want anything to clarify I am in your disposal.
By sister on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 11:24 pm: Edit
The man, who I got knew, almost twenty years before.......
(which is around 1983)
From the book “Declaration Of War - Expel The Infidels From The Arabian Peninsula”
"Then in 1979, just after he graduated from King Abdul Aziz University in Jeddah with a degree in Civil Engineering, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, and the Mujahideen put out an international plea for help. Usama bin Laden responded by packing himself and several of his family's bulldozers off to Afghanistan."
http://www.as-sabeel.com/profiles/muj/UBLBiog1.htm
By sister on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 04:06 am: Edit
Ms. Alma Libre, as muslims we love and hate for the sake of Allah. All we have done is to disagree with your slandering of our brother, I don't recall anyone using any bad language or speaking impolitely except to use the word 'trash' to describe your book, which really does feel like the most appropriate word to use to describe it's contents.
I think you find it difficult for people to criticize your views because your 'education and profession' have created in you an arrogant and elitist mentality where you think you are better than the rest of us. As muslims we learn not to suffer from this handicap of yours, because it's our understanding of our religion, our love and fear of our Creator and our ability to understand the reality based on what our religion teaches us that makes us worthy people not a PhD. So regardless of whether my education is higher or lower than that of a "Professor Psychoanalyst" I can and will disagree with your shallow evaluation of our comments, which didn't sound very professional at all, but rather sounded like a cheap shot to get us on the defensive, a lot like your last post as well
Also, wearing the veil doesn't mean that we become meek, timid creatures unable to speak the truth regarding our religion. Our religion and the example of the Mothers of the believers and the Sahabiyaat teaches us to be able to speak with courage and speak the truth, this is not the same as what you are accusing us of, of not having any decorum or shyness. We are shy to do what our religion prohibits and what our God dislikes, but speaking the word of truth is not being without shyness.
Just out of curiosity, how is it that someone can accurately spell 'non-educational behaviour, hysterical, Psychoanalyst' but can't spell 'hero', and uses a high level of English except to miss a few words here and there or to sometimes twist them around. Almost no grammatical errors are to be found in these sentences.
"Permit me dear Mr."Osi" to have my objections.
-You can't cricize from one page, when the book is more than 400pages. And by the way it is not a romance book, but a book speaking about fighting. It's a book about a pure and deep friendship and admiring and not loving affairs. Why you always think that between a man and woman there is only loving affairs? "
And, "Hundrends of doctors from European countries risking their lifes went to Palestine and Iraque to help the people
Hundrends of european citizens adupted economically children from Iraque and Palestine
Tonnes of medicines have been sent and also food and money
And all this help was from "poor" christian european people to the muslim's brothers in Middle East. Cause all in this earth we are children from the same God. Permit me to say again and again: it is not a war between christian and muslims - it is not a war between diferrent manners of life. IT IS A WAR FOR ENERGY. "
And then you find,
"let be frank, let be no more hidding behind your fingers".
May, how many aliases do you have?
By sister on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 12:40 pm: Edit
Actually May, after reading your post regarding my sisters Umm and Hanifah, I really am not interested in reading your reply. A word of advice, it's best to keep your fantasies to yourself, rather than put them up on a discussion board for the world to read, claiming them to be a biography. How embarrassing. Admin, please don't put up any more of her comments, because when she does say something we feel like we have to reply to defend our deen or someone's honour.
By Samer on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:09 pm: Edit
Salams,.
But question still remains.......bin ladin left for afghanitan when he was just 22.......and then talking to a girl.......before begin mujahid.....there is possibility......i dont think he had any friend after becoming practically relegious......God knows the best.
Samer
By Umm Hanifah on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:32 pm: Edit
Alma, I am not even gonna bother wasting my breath on you. you are not worth my time and i will not dignify you with a response to your slander.
I think enough is enough! We have tried to explain the deen of Islam, convey the truth and protect out Muslims brothers and sisters. We should not allow Alma to mock the Allah's deen by attributing falsehood to Islaam, the Sheik and Muslims sisters. I think Admin you should take Sister's advice and not allow any more rubbish to dominate an islamic discussion board.
Jazakumullah khayr
By ........ on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 12:25 am: Edit
As muslims we would never judge a person based on their past when maybe their understanding of deen was weak, but instead we would look to their current actions and behaviour, for people repent and Allah (swt) is the One Who Forgives. Also, we are only human as is Sheikh Usama and all the mujahideen and none of us are 'angels' hence we are liable to fall into error, make mistakes and even sin. The Messenger of Allah (saw) would always make dua to Allah (SWT) the One Who changes the hearts to keep his heart firm on the deen. But like sister Umm pointed out initially, Sheikh Usama had an Islamic upbringing and the 'book' above is slandering him. It comes from the sick imagination of May Hakim/Alma Libre/Mira, as you can see her real style of writing come through eventhough she tried to hide it with her Laurence of Arabia meets the Days of the British Raj type of speech plus grammatical errors.
Subhan Allah, the lengths that the enemies of Allah go through to slander his slaves and to confuse this ummah. I would pray for Allah's curse on her but I've found out that there is a difference of opinion regarding whether it is permitted to curse a particular individual or not. Everyone is agreed that it is permitted to curse the disbelievers, or oppressors as a nation, but when it comes to cursing individuals there are two opinions-one saying it's ok the other one saying no (something to do with the fact that when you send 'Lana' on a person what you are doing is praying for this person to be outside Allah's mercy, so for Allah (SWT) to have no mercy on them) . That's all I really know so I can't discuss it or the evidences in any detail. Maybe someone else knows the issue in more detail. So to be on the safe side:
Lanat Allah 'Ala Qawmil Kaafireen.
By Umm on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 07:19 am: Edit
"........", the following hadith suffices:
The Prophet (pbuh) said: "`O Allah! Punish Abu Jahl, ‘Utbah ibn Rabi‘ah, Shaibah ibn Rabi‘ah, Al-Waleed ibn ‘Utbah, Umayyah ibn Khalaf, and ‘Uqbah ibn Abi Mu‘it’. And he mentioned the seventh whose name I cannot recall. By Allah, I saw the dead bodies of those persons who were counted by Allah’s Apostle (pbuh) in the Qulaib (one of the wells) of Badr” (Bukhari and Muslim).
He (SAW) named individuals.
However, we can do a collective curse on Alma_Libre and her sort. We say what our Lord ordered us to say: "mutoo' bighaydhikum" (perish in your rage)
Alma Libre, disagreeing with your trasy book does not make us those who are ill-mannered. I hardly think that an indifel like you, who obviously has an obsession with the Shaykh, is in a positon to tell us what Muslims should and should not do.
No, you do not become "good" only by wearing a veil, and we never suggested that.
Quote:
"No, cause the God wants to have a good and pure soul,..."
1st sensible thing you have said.
Quote:
"an open heart for the people"
What does that mean? We are not told to love all people. We are told to have love for the believers, and enmity towards the disbelievers in their disobedience regarding the commands of Allah. Love for a non Muslim parent/child etc is allowed, but we do not love their way of life.
Quote:
"You, young ladies who want to defence Sheikh, what have you done for him?
You done absolutely nothing, except to stay infront a computer and using bad and unpolite words.
What have you done for jihhad, each of you?
Again nothing.
What have you done about the Palestine, Iraq?
Nothing, nothing, nothing.............
Young ladies if you want to be pround for yourselves and your religion go out and fight. Fight your really enemy, not me: cause I am not your enemy."
It is not sanctioned for the women of the Ummah to fight when there are more than enough men.
Shaykh Usamah does not give "blessings". He is not a person with divine powers, and we do not worship him.
Sister, I am so glad you and the brother pointed out that about her ever-chasnging literary [if it can be called that!] style. I was wondering how she could say "diatribe" but appears not to be able to spell hero ["herro"]
Alma_Libre, we are not in love with Shaykh Usamah, we only admire his character and fataawa [although in your case it might be something else...]
As Sister said Masha'Allah, we follow the Laws of Allah, and there is no such concept of platonic relationships in Islam between the oppostite sex.
Umm Hanifa and others have answered your pathetic points, yet still you are full of venom.
We have no need to ask the Shaykh what Alma_Libre means,it means "free soul" in Spanish. I, however, would change your profile to "Alma desquilibrado" were I the admin of this board .
wa-salaam,
Umm.
By Umm on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 07:26 am: Edit
sorry, infidel, not "indifel". Alma's writing style must be contagious..
By alma_libre on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 02:19 am: Edit
Sameer peace be upon you.
As I have read in the book (I am sorry but I am not the writter, I am just a reader)I think that Sheikh was visiting his friend Muchtar and meanwhile he met the writter too. It was just a meeting, nothing more. I would feel glad if I managed to answer your question.
_________________________________________
To all these angry girls:
You can ask the administrator to do what? To stop express the people their free oppinion? If you don't like someone or something you think that it is right to destroy it? Where is the free expression of someone's thoughts?
By the way none of you answered the question what have you done about Sheikh and Jihaad.
Why do you think that anybody here needs your protection? Are you the "Three bodyguards"? But the French revolution was many many years ago!!!!
Anyway girls you represent your best self, but was not enough. One of the most important thinks it is to respect the others opinion even we don't agree with it. Have a nice day girls, and try to be more cool next time. (For your information : I am not May or any other you think, I am just me. I repeat again: ask Sheikh or someone fighter what means "alma_libre", then you will find the true)
By jihadi on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 03:05 pm: Edit
"By the way none of you answered the question what have you done about Sheikh and Jihaad."
MI5 must be really slumming it to ask such blatent questions. Take a hike alma_libra.
By ask Sheikh? on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 06:08 pm: Edit
"ask Sheikh or someone fighter what means "alma_libre", then you will find the true"
On the way to doing my weekly shopping at the local supermarket, I'll remember to pop in to his house and ask him (!!??).
By Ibn Javed on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 01:21 am: Edit
Dear Mrs (Self-) Professed Psychotic-Annihilist,
Please read the name correctly, his name is not "Sameer" but "Samer" (actually reading the posts he's probably you as well...)
By Curtis Old on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 07:23 pm: Edit
Hello all, my name is Curtis, I have been trying to learn about the things that separate us, us I mean the people of east and west. I have been trying to learn more about Islam, and what Mohammad's followers are feeling, and thinking. So please have patients with me, thank you.
Umm Said
"In Islam men and women are not allowed to talk to the opposite sex or even look at them forget make friends. Don't think us so stupid that we will accept your slander about OUR SHIEK. He has made his stance clear against the infadels which includes jews and chritians and anyone who believes in a religion/way of life other than Islam."
I being a Christian have never been told not to treat anybody differently because of their religion, or faith. Nor have I ever been told to look at anyone differently because of other factors of race or sex. Do I understand it correctly that in Islam it is written that followers of any other faith are not followers of Allah(God, or Jehovah to some)? Is Allah not the same Master that the Jews and Christians follow? Are you saying that the messengers in the Torah, the Bible, get it all wrong in Allah's "eyes" and with Mohammad get it right in the Quran? How could Allah, or God, or Jehovah ever get anything wrong? Why would/could this happen? If we all follow the same Master, why are we not all following the same message? Confused.
Thank You for your time and understanding
By Umm on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 04:58 pm: Edit
Erm, I don't know why people on this board have such a thing for attributing quotes to me that I never said, but Curtis Old, it was Umm Hanifah who said that. But if you don't mind, I had the following observations to make
Quote:
I being a Christian have never been told not to treat anybody differently because of their religion, or faith.
Old Testament:
What was David's dowry according to the Bible? Slaying 200 Filistines and removing a part of each of their bodys to present to the King. 1 Sam. 18:25
[2 King 5:15] THERE IS NO GOD IN ALL THE EARTH, BUT IN ISRAEL.
New Testanment:
Gal. 2:15] Paul said, "We ourselves, who are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners."
Hardly love thy neighbour, is it now?
Quote:
Nor have I ever been told to look at anyone differently because of other factors of race or sex.
We covered difference in religions/race above, now as to differences in gender:
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." (I Tim. 2:11-14)
http://www.afi.org.uk/other/t/biblespeak.html#3
Quote:
Do I understand it correctly that in Islam it is written that followers of any other faith are not followers of Allah(God, or Jehovah to some)? Is Allah not the same Master that the Jews and Christians follow? Are you saying that the messengers in the Torah, the Bible, get it all wrong in Allah's "eyes" and with Mohammad get it right in the Quran?
The Qur'an says this:
"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"
Strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, 'We are Christians': because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. (The Noble Quran, 5:82)"
And it has been related by our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) that:
"Three persons will have a double reward: 1. A Person from the people of the scriptures who believed in his prophet (Jesus or Moses) and then believed in the Prophet Muhammad (i.e. has embraced Islam). 2. A slave who discharges his duties to Allah and his master. 3. A master of a woman-slave who teaches her good manners and educates her in the best possible way (the religion) and manumits her and then marries her." (Sahih Bukhari 1.97)
Quote:
How could Allah, or God, or Jehovah ever get anything wrong? Why would/could this happen?
The previous scriptures were not preserved as tey were for a particualr people, for a particular time. The Qur'an was preserved as it is for all people, for all time.
Quote:
If we all follow the same Master, why are we not all following the same message?
Is the Hindu worshipping an elephant idol (and 100's of others!) following the same path as the one only praying directly to Allah, without intercessor?
By Curtis Old on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 06:55 pm: Edit
Umm thank you for your response, sorry if it seemed to be directed towards you, it was not meant as such, forgive me.
You have brought up some interesting points, could you clarify:
"Three persons will have a double reward: 1. A Person from the people of the scriptures who believed in his prophet (Jesus or Moses) and then believed in the Prophet Muhammad (i.e. has embraced Islam). 2. A slave who discharges his duties to Allah and his master. 3. A master of a woman-slave who teaches her good manners and educates her in the best possible way (the religion) and manumits her and then marries her." (Sahih Bukhari 1.97)
In the first instance I take the (i.e. has embraced Islam) was added by you? Or is this an interpretation by others? If I read the statement by you provided with out this it reads:
"Three persons will have a double reward: 1. A Person from the people of the scriptures who believed in his prophet (Jesus or Moses) and then believed in the Prophet Muhammad.
That would suggest that people of faith, that believed in Jesus or Moses, and Then believed in the Prophet Muhammad would receive a double reward, or would it mean to receive a double reward one must be a Christian or a Jew first then convert to Islam? Or Does this mean that prophets Jesus and or Moses, and the faiths (Chritianity, or Judisum) associated with those prophets mean nothing?
"How could Allah, or God, or Jehovah ever get anything wrong? Why would/could this happen?
The previous scriptures were not preserved as tey were for a particualr people, for a particular time. The Qur'an preserved as it is for all people, for all time. "
I don't see how this answers the question, are you suggesting that the Bible and the Torah, were only written for times passed, for a people whom no longer exist? Was not Abraham the father of the tribes that created Muslims, Christians, and Jews? Were not these children following the same Lord, and his messages via the Prophets? Please explain, thank you.
"If we all follow the same Master, why are we not all following the same message?
Is the Hindu worshipping an elephant idol (and 100's of others!) following the same path as the one only praying directly to Allah, without intercessor? "
Sorry maybe I should have been a little clearer, when I made that statement I was referring to the Lord of Abraham, the Lord that all Muslims, Christians, and Jews call their Master. Why is it that our Lord has a different path/messages for his people?
Again, I'm trying to understand, and thank you for everyones time reading my post.
One other question, should I move these type of questions to another topic/category ?
By Umm Hanifah on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 08:53 pm: Edit
Hello Curtis,
Since you have quoted me I think it’s only right that I answer your reservations and makes things clear for you.
You Said
"I being a Christian have never been told not to treat anybody differently because of their religion, or faith. Nor have I ever been told to look at anyone differently because of other factors of race or sex. Do I understand it correctly that in Islam it is written that followers of any other faith are not followers of Allah(God, or Jehovah to some)? Is Allah not the same Master that the Jews and Christians follow? Are you saying that the messengers in the Torah, the Bible, get it all wrong in Allah's "eyes" and with Mohammad get it right in the Quran? How could Allah, or God, or Jehovah ever get anything wrong? Why would/could this happen? If we all follow the same Master, why are we not all following the same message?"
First of all Islam is the religion from Allah (swt) and the religion that has been prescribed for mankind. It is the religion brought by all the Prophets of God and it has been called so by Allah (swt) in the Quran unlike Christianity and Judaism.
Neither the Jewish scripture nor torah have identified the name of the religion brought by the messengers of god. Neither Christianity nor Judaism can be the name of the religion brought by the prophets because these names were not known in the eras of all the prophets. Judaism comes from the name of a region, Judea & Christianity from a translation of a title given to Jesus, Christ (a Greek word meaning anointed).
“This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion..” [5:3]
The word Islam means obedience and complete submission to the will of God so the Arabic term Islam accurately describes the religion of all the prophets which was calling to the oneness of God and oneness in his worship.
3.65] “O followers of the Book! why do you dispute about Ibrahim, when the Taurat and the Injeel were not revealed till after him; do you not then understand?”
[3.67] “Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists.”
So all the prophets including Jesus and Moses were Muslim as they all submitted to the will of God. They all followed the same religion of Monotheism, the religion of Abraham and Muhammed, the last and final prophet who brought the completed message.
“This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion..” [5:3]
The quran addresses this reality by declaring Islam as the only religion prescribed for mankind.
[3.19] Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.
So the only true religion from Allah is Islam and he says in the Quran
[3.85] And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
[61.9] He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion, that He may make it overcome the religions, all of them, though the polytheists may be averse.
Allah (swt) did not make a mistake, Allah almighty the creator of all creatures sent prophets throughout time to bring people back to the worship of one god. However, after the death of Prophet Jesus people began to worship him instead of the Lord that he and his disciples worshipped. As did the Jews, who changed the message brought to them by Moses.
19.88-95] And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son. Certainly you have made an abominable assertion. The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces, That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God. And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son. There is no one in the heavens and the earth but will come to the Beneficent God as a servant. Certainly He has a comprehensive knowledge of them and He has numbered them a (comprehensive) numbering. And every one of them will come to Him on the day of resurrection alone.
[3.59] Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was. (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of the disputers.
[5.75] The Messiah, son of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food. See how We make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away.
Islam is the most just way of life and it does not discriminate against anybody or anything that is from Allah (swt). Muslims and non-Muslims lived side by side for 1400 years under the Islamic State. The non-Muslims were considered citizens of the Islamic State and enjoyed the same rights and protection. Unlike in the west there is no such thing as ethnic minorities in Islam.
Ibn Hazm a great scholar of Islam stated “That it would be our duty to protect the people of the Dhimma (non-Muslim citizens) if aggressors attacked our land and we should die protecting them if necessary, any neglect of such a duty would be a breach of the rights of the non-Muslims citizens.”
By bint Ahmed on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 09:41 pm: Edit
Assalam aliekum
Sorry for my interupting but as Curtis suggested ADMIN its a good idea to move this topic to another thread.
The topic of the so called book is just fitna and this thread should be locked.