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Abu Faaris As-Sumalee
23rd April 2007, 01:58 PM
What if Cho was a Muslim?
Monday April 23, 2007 (1658 PST)


Would it have changed the fact that this was a deeply disturbed not to mention chronically ill man? Would the media, neo-cons and Zionists react in the same manner? Would there be plans to attack another Muslim country even though it had nothing what so ever to do with the heinous crime? Is South Korea where CHO hailed from a clear and present danger now and hence should be the beneficiary of Daisy Cutters and other “Marvels of Science” that we have invented for the well-being of human race? If you are able to answer these questions honestly than it should become obvious, that we live in a very sad, hypocritical, prejudice and bigoted world.

In addition to the international dynamic, domestically speaking all things being as they are now, only If CHO had been Muslim, even a non practicing one at that, you can rest assure that there would have been mass arrests, migrations and intimidation of Muslims thru out the country. There would have been threatening phone calls to the masajids, our sisters who wear Hijab would have been harassed. The MSA’s(Muslim Students Association) would have received threats; Muslim women on campus would have been scared because most of them are identifiable thru their head-covering. For an act of a clinically sick individual as it is an established fact now, a whole people of about 7 million or so would have suffered in one shape or another, for the mere fact that his name would have been an Arabic sounding one instead of Asian. Is it fair? No! Would most have cared? Not really! Those who would have cared, and there are millions of them as well, need to start that conversation. Why is it that as a society we are by & large people where common-sense prevail and we are swayed with facts rather than fiction but as soon as there is a hint of an Arabic sound, all hell breaks loose, rules change on its head and all of a sudden its ‘us’ against ‘them arabs’?

Timing might be questionable to some but it should also bring to fore the importance of human life. For some odd reason we only treasure life and feel that immense pain that is associated with the loss of it when it’s our own. When innocent lives are lost in hundreds on daily basis in foreign lands because of our government’s follies & greed then in best case scenarios we justify it as collateral damage, worst case necessary steps to safeguard our own security, don’t ask for proof however, you are just suppose to take THEIR word for it. As human beings we need to become a little more passionate and a little less pragmatic. Not that the literal meaning of pragmatism has anything to do with our cowboy approach to everything but that’s at least how perception can be sellable as a reality and we do it in a ruthless, cunning manner that would shame wild beasts.

As a nation we stand accused as the murderer of upwards of 6 million human beings just in IRAQ alone in recent times, none of whom had anything to do with 9/11. That is a recognized fact and not even neo-cons rap on that anymore. Thousands of our own men and women have perished in IRAQ fighting a war that has lost little credibility that it might have had, but still the COWBOY in White House insists that any day now IRAQIS will roll out the red carpet. I saw this documentary over the weekend, name was Ground Truth. I must tell you that I realized that even the “PRO-WAR” crowd seems to only honor those who some how are visibly hurt, hundreds upon thousands of soldiers come back to dwindling careers, broken families and on top of that they have to deal with the demons from their past. The producers of this documentary followed the story of 10 or so soldiers, all of them are suffering with severe depression and anxiety. For those of us who have never encountered this disease, can’t truly understand the hopelessness and misery of these poor-soles. If you look in their eyes you’ll see a pain that is indescribable.

This one soldier explains how he shot and killed an elderly woman who was approaching his humvee, they asked her to stop but she kept on moving towards them perhaps maybe because either she couldn’t hear or really didn’t understand what they wanted from her. Once she was shot dead, they approached her dead body and found a white flag instead of explosives. You can call it an honest mistake and that’s what everyone tried to tell him but this soldier can’t get rid of the guilt, he said he killed an innocent woman in cold blood and there is nothing he can do to bring her back. He said its quite easy to put a sticker on your car that reads “SUPPORT THE TROOPS”, it’s a whole different ball-game to actually go and fight an immoral war and then live with consequences for the rest of your life as an individual. Almost all of them said that they have thought about suicide and wish that they would have died in Iraq. The producers interviewed the family of a soldier who hung himself with a garden-hose. His sister says that he received a hero’s welcome and when they came home from the rally, he said I am a monster, I killed innocent women and kids, and she says he was a different person all-together. He had to end his own life to be at peace. Can the war-proponents put a hand on their hearts and just for a minute imagine the pain that these soldiers must go thru every single day of their life? Was it worth it? Was Iraq really planning to attack USA or even had the capability? Are we really any safer than Pre-Iraq War? Did we really win hearts and minds of Iraqis for getting rid of saddam, are they any safer now? We can only imagine how all these soldiers lives with that pain, day in and day out, all the while Mr. Wolfowitz the architect of this war was busy pressuring authorities to raise his girlfriend’s already over-blown salary. How is this not outrageous enough for American people to call for the heads of these thugs, is beyond me?

There is discontentment amongst people and a great majority of them DO realize that our recent ventures paints America in a not so desirable manner, but the level of outcry that is expected from the supposed flag-bearers and champions of democracy, decency and human-rights is still missing somewhere.

I realize that there are militants out there that are driven by there interpretation of Islam, however my question is that is Islam the driving force behind it or is it some form of injustice somewhere that is the catalyst? For way too long we have avoided these uncomfortable questions maybe because the Zionist lobby in Washington realizes that if this conversation starts then there jig would be up. It has been said numerous times before that people resort to violent means when the corridors of civility and dialogue are no longer available or fruitful. Maoists & Sikhs in India, Tamil’s in Sri Lanka, IRA in Ireland; Kamikaze’s earlier in the history are but few examples of that non-religious phenomenon that we callously slap on Islam alone. No doubt Muslim world has its own justified share of blame, but most of that blame lies with the autocratic rulers of the Islamic World that have looted their respective countries and deprived the population at-large with prosperity that would make the lives worth living for the hordes of masses. Ironically enough most all of these rulers are recipient of seal of approval from Washington. And then we innocently wonder “Why do the Moslems hate us”. Ahh duhh! You are sleeping with their enemy.

It breaks your heart when Parents with teary eyes wish their son or daughter would have skipped class. My heart goes out to all the families and friends of the victims and we the Muslims living in America must come to the forefront to console our neighbors in these tragic times. We are part of this society and since we are the beneficiary of lot of good that American society has to offer to its citizen, we must come together to console those of our country-folk that have been devastated with this atrocity.

Abd al-Haqq Marshall
25th April 2007, 11:05 PM
Some of the kufaar are still trying to claim he was, despite the repeated references to the Crucifixion he had in his tape.

Looks at this Zionist jackass trying to say it was "jihad". (http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/kaplan042407.htm)

Madarijas-Salikeen
26th April 2007, 12:17 PM
From the dhahir he appears to be a kafir. And anyone who would do this act as a muslim believing it is jihad would not smell the fragrance of paradise for we have a covenant. We are not in dar al harb.

Umm
26th April 2007, 01:23 PM
. We are not in dar al harb.

:confused:

Had Cho been a Muslim, the word "terrorist" would have appeared in the headlines.
Funny how the Brummie raids were in the news longer than old Cho, who seems to be old news now.

Abd al-Haqq Marshall
26th April 2007, 06:30 PM
Cho was definately a Christian, but the Zionists want to spin everything as a "war on terror" issue.

gag order
26th April 2007, 08:14 PM
one of his victims had a military scholarship, on graduation, he would have the option to serve his country, but thanks to cho, he will never get to kill muslims.

as matter of fact, virginia tech, like many other colleges offer the ROTC program to its students in the hope of poaching civilians to serve in the military.

what the media wont tell you is that cho was a product of american gun culture, some papers even suggested that he was in part influenced by violent korean films, naturally becos he is korean, but violent hollywood films played no part in it?

also, three of his victims were, i believe, arab. how often was that mentioned? cho did what he did becos he was an american not becos he was korean.

Umm Ahmed
27th April 2007, 06:45 AM
Egyptian Among Virginia Shooting Victims

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6572460,00.html

Suhaib Jobst
27th April 2007, 01:11 PM
And anyone who would do this act as a muslim believing it is jihad would not smell the fragrance of paradise for we have a covenant. We are not in dar al harb.

There is no "covenant" with those who fight the Muslims, and even if there was, then it was nullified the moment the government began attacking Muslims. Unlike Britain, there is no "covenant" which the government makes with the Muslims here, so the conditions are not covered by this hadeeth even in theory.

This fact doesn't necessarily mean we should all be in a state of Jihad in this country, for that is another subject entirely. But it does mean we should reject any subjugated position, as unworthy both of our honor and dignity and foremost our Deen. Nevertheless, why do brothers of your ilk constantly ignore the nullifications of such a "covenant", based as it is upon an Ijma?

Abuz Zubair
27th April 2007, 03:26 PM
Here we go again.... *sigh*

gag order
27th April 2007, 03:42 PM
i think the point of the thread is the percieved media reaction to cho bieng a muslim and not the rights and wrongs of the covenant !

Abd al-Haqq Marshall
27th April 2007, 05:46 PM
i think the point of the thread is the percieved media reaction to cho bieng a muslim and not the rights and wrongs of the covenant !

No, I think that the point is that Cho wasn't a Muslim, so the media furor over this has already died down. Had he been Muslim we would still be having it shoved down our throats (like 9/11).

gag order
27th April 2007, 06:09 PM
No, I think that the point is that Cho wasn't a Muslim, so the media furor over this has already died down. Had he been Muslim we would still be having it shoved down our throats (like 9/11).

:D thats what i meant, but you have worded it better!

Madarijas-Salikeen
27th April 2007, 07:19 PM
There is no "covenant" with those who fight the Muslims, and even if there was, then it was nullified the moment the government began attacking Muslims. Unlike Britain, there is no "covenant" which the government makes with the Muslims here, so the conditions are not covered by this hadeeth even in theory.

Bismillah ar rahman ar raheem

My dear brother Yes there is no covenant in the lands such as afghanistan iraq etc.. Those muslims have a right to defend themselves and expel any occupiers etc..

In the west if one is born in that land or goes to that land with a VISA and even a FORGED VISA it still constitutes as a covenant.

As the hadith of abu basir killing the two men who captured him whereas the nabi salalahu alayhi wa salam had an Ahd with them but abu basir and others did not. So this goes in favor that we HAVE A COVENANT.

If your living in the west and didnt sneak into it you have a covenant. You must abide by it. Do not break the covenants for this is a major Sin. It causes corruption. Imagine a man going to the grocery store in the west getting the eggs, meat, bread etc drinks for his family. Then goes back to the grocery store and kills the grocer. Not very logical.

We have a specific covenant we are not in those lands where Jihad is being launched.

And what im saying is what Shaykh ibn uthaymeen, shaykh nasir uddeen al albaani rahimullah, and other ulama are upon.

wasalaam

Suhaib Jobst
28th April 2007, 06:06 AM
Wa Alaykum as-Salaam,

I have no intention to discuss something which has already been examined on this forum. I am aware that covenants include not only a written agreement, but generally any tacit agreement between Kuffar and Muslims who live among them, in whatever form may be customary in a specific region.

Most of your statements I oppose, although I recognize you are sincere and intend good. I will leave it at that, since I don't want to discuss something which has already been discussed. Nevertheless, I couldn't let this last statement of yours past....

And what im saying is what Shaykh ibn uthaymeen, shaykh nasir uddeen al albaani rahimullah, and other ulama are upon.

Sorry, but I am a Muslim and my Deen is not restricted to some group which is called the Kibaar al-'Ulama. I mean not to lessen their scholarship, but we were commanded to follow the Qur'an and Sunnah from the Ijma of the early Muslims, not make taqleed of some hizb called "the Salafis".

So I don't care what you claim these scholars "were upon". There are countless statements of theirs I can bring forward, which run counter to the entire Madkhalee agenda. I have no intention to enter into these fruitless debates with a group whose basis is the defense of Tawagheet and attack of Mujahideen, which propagates the bid'ah of Irjaa under the guise of Salafiyyah. This is the only thing I have to say on the subject of "being upon what the Kibar al-'Ulama are upon".

gag order
28th April 2007, 01:52 PM
a forged visa may not be a valid covenant. homeland security is especially interested in any middle eastern types who have forged documentation becos from it they understand that the individual possesing them probably intends to do harm since the documentation in question is not recognised for its validity and becos of that the authorities know that the one who posses it is not obliged to uphold the conditions of any forged document

Mohammed Hassan Al-Moayad
30th April 2007, 08:15 PM
Wow, °o.O Yuki-chan O.o° from Indonesia on "mySpace" reads IslamicAwakening forum!

She ref'd Brother Faaris as-Sumalee's 'What if Cho was a Muslim?' thread yesterday in a discussion on mySpace:

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=34007522&categoryID=0&IsSticky=0&groupID=100926179&Mytoken=3B9F6D29-F3D0-4ABC-BB33302D8030D2106941051

I'm glad people in so many lands are coming and reading.

Ibn Adam
30th April 2007, 08:28 PM
Please excuse my ignorance but who is °o.O Yuki-chan O.o°?

Her MySpace URL is blocked out by the Saudi sensors so I can't work it out myself.

Umm Ahmed
30th April 2007, 08:34 PM
Please excuse my ignorance but who is °o.O Yuki-chan O.o°?

Her MySpace URL is blocked out by the Saudi sensors so I can't work it out myself.


See if this opens.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/web/ismail-ax-sparks-web-search-frenzy/2007/04/18/1176696880256.html

Ibn Adam
30th April 2007, 08:47 PM
Jazaki Allahu khayran.

I got the story to open up, but I still don't understand who Yuki-chan is (is she the journalist?)

The way the brother mentioned her name it seemed to contextually suggest that she was someone of note that had come across the forums and I'd never heard of her before and thought to ask.

___

Actually, I have a theory too.

"Ismail Ax" could be Arab-glish (i.e. Arabic and English).

Isma (Arabic: listen!) I lax ...

He was going to write the word "brains" next but ran out of ink.

Mohammed Hassan Al-Moayad
30th April 2007, 09:19 PM
Please excuse my ignorance but who is °o.O Yuki-chan O.o°?

Her MySpace URL is blocked out by the Saudi sensors so I can't work it out myself.


I went back to mySpace, and as far as her personal profile goes, it says:

"This profile is set to private. This user must add you as a friend to see his/her profile."

when I try to pull up her personal profile. She is someone who ocassionally writes on the MUSLIM discussion forum. (On Page three of 'Religion & Belief' discussion Groups on mySpace.

You can choose any thing you want to for a 'name' on mySpace. So that is what she uses for her name.

her response had been:

Posted: Apr 29, 2007 1:37 AM (to the 'Ismail Ax' thread on MUSLIM)

there's a good article called 'What if Cho was a Muslim?' written by Abu Faaris as-Sumalee on islamcawakening that made me wonder hmm no one refers to Cho as a 'terrorist'.

the Ummah's in a bad state that when whenever you hear of an atrocity of any kind, your first thought is, "Thank God it wasn't Muslims who did it." for obvious reason.

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Not likely that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia gov wouldn't allow you to view mySpace, since one of the 'Religion & Belief' GROUPs is 'Khalifate of Allah' which is entirely a Saudi gov propaganda line Muslim discussion forum. They have to let people on to view that and I'm sure you be able to view 'MUSLIM' Group also. The girl's profile, 'though, is private.

Ibn Adam
30th April 2007, 09:29 PM
Oh ok, so she's just some online person, I'd thought maybe because you'd mentioned her by name that she was some kind of political figure, journalist or what-not.

Baraka Allah fik.