September 11th - Separating the Truth from the Lies [Archive] - Page 2

Mansoor Ali

27th December 2005, 03:06 AM

Refutation of "Gag Order":

without your copy/paste jobs you dont sound too smart!

and you don't seem so smart when you could not type "couldn't have", you typed couldnt of.

whoever told you to be yourself couldnt of given you worse advice!

No one told me to be myself. Don't lie and don't be arrogant.

You said 

im not interested in what these kafirs and mushriks have been feeding you 

and yet you quoted a post by the kafir "fastman" to revile me. 

You have proven yourself to be someone who has sided with a kafir to revile a Muslim.



again your (dis)information comes from conspiracy theorists who have no scientific background whatsoever.

That's another lie form you.

You said

you never accept it from bin laden your fellow muslim when he said:**************

************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ********************************************************************** 

************************************************************************************************************************************* "So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider. 



I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind. "


That was an imposter pretending to be bin Laden and he appeared on TV in America four days before the U.S. presidential election.



You have shown a characteristic of the hypocrites by showing insolence when there is a dispute.

gag order

28th December 2005, 01:15 AM

"you quoted a post by the kafir "fastman" to revile me" but only to remind you that kafirs*******dont always speak the truth - get it? if not go back and re-read the context.

*******

"You have proven yourself to be someone who has sided with a kafir to revile a Muslim" actually i was*******quite embarrased by fastmans response to you and also i was somewhat dismayed by your inability to meet his challenge and your lack of response to his insults this prompted me to 'flame' him and all his chums who appeared around the same time.****************************

*******

i have challenged your beliefs and you have resorted to nit-picking in retaliation and you call it a refutation? try to refute my argument if you can, not my spelling mistakes or grammar!

*******

your responses to my*******challenges have been dissapointing and laughable:

"you are wrong" & "you have lied"*******

i have endured*******this even though i consider that to be insolence on your part*******but nevertheless i desire to only warn of the dangers of believing in conspiracy theories. 

*******

since i began my thread on*******HOW TO SPOT FAKE CONSPIRACY THEORIES you have failed to refute or answer satisfactorily my challenge and it appears that you feel threatened by it. in your desperation you have resorted to nit-picking and personal allegations.

*******

here is an example of your inability to refute logically:

i said: "your (dis)information comes from conspiracy theorists who have no scientific background whatsoever". (i then went on to explain how they were unscientific)

you said in reply: "That's another lie form you"

may be it would help if you could elaborate on this. what you have done is to merely contradict, if that is all you can manage then you have made a poor case in the defense of the conspiracist world view. *******

*******

"You have shown a characteristic of the hypocrites by showing insolence when there is a dispute".

sadly, this*******personal dig*******will be*******your undoing............................

Mansoor Ali

28th December 2005, 05:01 AM

sadly, this*******personal dig*******will be*******your undoing............................

After the word undoing, instead of the dots,*******you should have said "inshallaah".

Ther's no point in quoting and higlhighting in bold text a kaafir when he tells me I'm a disgrace to the Muslims. Only Allaah can judge perfectly.

There's no point in talking back to someone who wants to be arrogant like "fastman".

Now, getting back to 9/11, just one question :

How did the Muslim hijackers manage to attach a misslie pod to the aircraft?

gag order

28th December 2005, 10:09 PM

"How did the Muslim hijackers manage to attach a misslie pod to the aircraft"? maybe they thought they needed to smash the windows incase the plane couldnt ?

consider this, pictures of the missle*******pod theory do not contain a laser sight and pictures of the laser sight theory do not contain a missle pod?

perhaps it is as i suspect that someone has been using adobe aftereffects 

the cospiracy theorists*******are unable*******to provide a*******logical*******explanation as to why*******the plane needed a laser dot similarly they are at a loss as to why*******the plane needed a missle pod ???

Mansoor Ali

29th December 2005, 04:21 PM

consider this, pictures of the missle*******pod theory do not contain a laser sight and pictures of the laser sight theory do not contain a missle pod?

It is not a requirement that if there is a picture of the missile pod the picture must also include the laser, because lasers are not picked up by all cameras.

Mansoor Ali

29th December 2005, 04:28 PM

Dave Vonkleist, a 9/11 researcher, said*******that for a brief few seconds, a radio beacon transmitter was detected by Ham Radio operators, just 'as the plane was making it's final 2-3 second approach, and that they narrowed it down to the WTC as the source, and that it also interfered with the TV transmission antennae as well. Then after impact, it was turned off.

Mansoor Ali

29th December 2005, 04:39 PM

Now here's a photo showing both the laser and the missile pod:

http://bigrosebang.com/911/nytphotomissile.jpg

Abu Hatim

29th December 2005, 09:32 PM

Yeah I'm sure a Plane full of jet fuel traveling at 400 mph needed a "lasser guided missile"(am I the only one that finds that entertaining?) to break through a standard glass building. The worst thing about people who actually believe this garbage is that they dishonour the mujahideen who carried out the expedition of septemper.

If you agree with what happen or not, you can not ignore the fact those 19 young brothers gave their lives for this deen. Oh wait a minute, some of them are still alive!! Does it matter if some of the identities were stolen? Would'nt you want to hide your identity in order to get pass the intellegence agencies?

"flight 93 was shot down". okay your point?

"There's no pictures of the plane hitting the pentagon". So that means the few thousand people who saw it were all abducted by the illuminati(aka jewish) and brainwashed to believe that? "but no so fat kafir named bob said it was a missile"!!

well maybe you and bob should start a peace club and eat trees all day. 

"40,000 jews didn't work that day"...says who? and so what your point again?

"Shaykh osama works for the CIA and all his tapes are fake"

you should have your head cut off for believing that and bad mouthing a man you don't even know.

but wait a minute, Im sure your fellow ATHIEST conspiracy theory friends would call peta and have me blasted with a water house for saying that or they might burn my BMW up to save the world from disaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!haha

some people have no live

yeah and I made more then one grammer mistake on purpose just to irritate you....sue me

gag order

29th December 2005, 09:57 PM

"Now here's a photo showing both the laser and the missile pod"

this is problematic becos different 'researchers' have given different interpretations of the photo*******above. one described it as the heat from the missle 

and besides its too big to be a laser*******dot - it looks like the work of a photo editor becos the alleged 'laser dot' is larger and brighter than the other ones ive seen of the same shot. 

it seems like someone 'produced' this after having read my challenge - i wonder???*******

secondly the picture above can be explained away if one were to argue that since the terrorists werent the best of pilots in their fumbling around they turned on the wing lights while trying*******to get the proper angle of approach.*******

Mansoor Ali

30th December 2005, 03:32 AM

Reply to Abu Hatim:



Yeah I'm sure a Plane full of jet fuel traveling at 400 mph needed a "lasser guided missile"(am I the only one that finds that entertaining?) to break through a standard glass building. The worst thing about people who actually believe this garbage is that they dishonour the mujahideen who carried out the expedition of septemper.

Let me repeat : Not knowing the purpose of the missile does not change the fact that missiles were fired into the WTC. It is also a fact that there was nobody on board those airplanes which crashed into the WTC. 

The 19 hijackers that you speak highly of were not on the passenger lists of the four flights. At least*******seven of them turned up alive. The passenger lists contain names of people who did not die on 9/11.



"Shaykh osama works for the CIA and all his tapes are fake"

you should have your head cut off for believing that and bad mouthing a man you don't even know.

I never said that and I don't believe it. 

Would'nt you want to hide your identity in order to get pass the intellegence agencies?

Again, there were no hijackers.



"flight 93 was shot down". okay your point?



That's something I found early in my research. I now believe flight 93 landed at Cleveland airport.



"40,000 jews didn't work that day"...says who? and so what your point again?

I don't remember where I made that statement.

There's no pictures of the plane hitting the pentagon". So that means the few thousand people who saw it were all abducted by the illuminati(aka jewish) and brainwashed to believe that? "but no so fat kafir named bob said it was a missile"!!

What the eyewitnesses saw was not a boeing 757. If it was a plane it was something else.

We also don't know the identity of the attack vehicle at the Pentagon. The alleged aircraft, American Airlines flight 77, was not scheduled to fly that day.



yeah and I made more then one grammer mistake on purpose just to irritate you....sue me

That's not from the Islaamic character.

Mansoor Ali

30th December 2005, 03:37 AM

Reply to 'Gag Order' :



secondly the picture above can be explained away if one were to argue that since the terrorists werent the best of pilots in their fumbling around they turned on the wing lights while trying*******to get the proper angle of approach.*******

Pleas don't make silly statements like that - it's embarrasing. 

If the plane's*******wing lights were not turned on - in broad daylight - and a few seconds before the crash - would the plane have missed?

And how comes the "wing light" continues to travel across the explosion and onto the face of the adjacent building?

Mansoor Ali

30th December 2005, 04:02 AM

Second reply to "Gag Order":



and besides its too big to be a laser*******dot - it looks like the work of a photo editor becos the alleged 'laser dot' is larger and brighter than the other ones ive seen of the same shot. 

You have made a definitive statement, and yet your evidence is that it "looks like" the work of a photo editor.

Mansoor Ali

30th December 2005, 04:15 AM

Third reply to "Gag Order":



it seems like someone 'produced' this after having read my challenge - i wonder???*******

A 9/11 researcher has said:

"Having ran a laser processing machine, I can tell you all...
Lasers are invisible.
They are clear light and when helium and neon are added to the gases, it can create coloring (in the laser processing (cutting) machine)
The red dot you see on the material being cut, is called a HeNe beam.
It is harmless and only used to target.

This would have to be a large spot in order for something to read it from a distance.
Planes do this all the time in the military.
Special forces paint a target in order for a plane to bomb it. They DONT use a HeNe type system to do this (HeNe being the above mentioned red spot)

As for what military targetting systems look like, I can't tell you.
I know it would not be a tiny red dot as one would think. "

Mansoor Ali

9th January 2006, 04:44 PM

http://www.vialls.com/wtc/images/clueless4.jpghttp://www.vialls.com/wtc/images/clueless6.jpg<div><div>One*******piece of mythical cement binding the 9-11 Commission's story together, was the*******claim that air traffic control tapes had captured the voices of the 'hijackers' allegedly on board American Flight 11 and United Flight 175, with the muttered sounds of threats on the tape from these 'hijackers'.</div><div>Although it is possible to positively identify an individual aircraft by its unique secondary radar pulse, it is not possible to positively identify which aircraft a voice radio message is coming from. Indeed, as we will shortly see, the voice could equally easily be coming from an aparrtment block or an automobile. At best all you can hope for is an approximate heading derived from radio direction finding equipment, but what if the apartment******* block or automobile lies in roughly the same direction? The simple and only answer is that you cannot discriminate between the aircraft, the apartment block, or the automobile.</div><div>The reason that these tapes were never made public before, is because the U.S. Federal Government knows there is not a trace of the voices of any known crew member on board either aircraft, at any point in the tape.</div><div>both airliners suddenly went radio-silent immediately after departure from Logan, or the voices [i]would be on that tape. In turn this proves that whoever or more likely 'whatever' took control of both aircraft, did so while the planes were in their steep climb out from the airport, which is a lightning-fast hijack by any standard. From that point in time there was complete radio silence, broken only by indistiguishable voices muttering from an unknown location or locations.</div><div>Because the controllers were anxiously waiting for a reply [made even more urgent because both IFF secondary radar transponders had apparently failed], they understandably assumed that the voices were coming from the aircraft they were trying to contact. One of the oldest tricks in the book is to steal an identity by behaving exactly as your target would. In this case, the anonymous voices simply waited for the controllers to call either Flight 11 or Flight 175, then clicked their own transmit switches.</div><div>--- Joe vialls.</div></div>

Mansoor Ali

15th January 2006, 01:11 AM

The possibility of using thermonuclear bombs in the WTC

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/nuke.gif
The Ground Zero here is in the original sense of word, a nuclear blast site. The thermal energy may absorb heat at a rate of 10 E 23 ergs / cm2 sec and near the bomb all surfaces may heat to 4000 °C or 7200 °F igniting or vapourizing violently.

Associate

15th January 2006, 10:45 AM

greetings mr. mansoor ali,

********************* *******I do believe in the credibility of all*******these posible if not solid evidence, but, we cannot expect to inform the masses by just posting these informative articles here, if I may suggest, it would be more beneficial if we create a compilation of these evidences and then*******send*******them to some colleagues, friends and other sites to better inform the public*******about america's*******filthy little homicidal secret

Mansoor Ali

15th January 2006, 04:55 PM

I have also had the same thought. I have wanted to publish a book called "The truth about 9/11" where I put all these evidences, but I don't have the money to do so.

Mansoor Ali

15th January 2006, 07:13 PM

These outlines of developments in military bomb technology have been written to give the layman some idea, why bomb technology has developed into what it is.

A hollow charge made possible a small charge to make a hole in armour plate was invented in Switzerland in 1937. A cutting charge, used in the WTC in tens of thousands of pieces, was an evolutionary model of the principles of a hollow charge from 1950's.
A Claymore threw steel balls towards the enemy, but was otherwise harmless even from 5 meters distance, was developed in the USA approximately in 1960.
A flank mine is able to direct a narrow pressure wave through AFV flanks from a distance of 20 meters and was more developed in Finland around 1970. Due to efficiency causes, growing part of military explosives deploy improvements utilizing directed explosion energy.

By controlling several layers of the explosion fronts the size of a nuclear bomb has been minimized during the 1960's (fission – implosion). After that, the control of explosion force in nuclear explosions was developed. Too strong an explosion is sometimes unusable, for example when the enemy have broken too close to friendly cities.

While looking for a bomb with a small size and a strong effect, a pure hydrogen bomb was an obvious solution. When no atomic device is needed for igniting, the size of the hydrogen bomb gets even smaller and the yield (effect) can be set within a wide range, for example between from 1 to 100.

Nowadays, both the yield and the direction of the destructive force of a small tactical hydrogen bomb can be somewhat controlled. The amount of fusion-able materials control the yield (effect) and the shape of the charge as well as the initiation arrangements influence the direction of the explosion wave.

Mansoor Ali

15th January 2006, 07:16 PM

Observations Suggesting the Use of Thermonuclear Bombs in the World Trade Centre.

PART ONE

1) The concrete pulverized into fine dust, 70…300 micron particles (just this could take more energy than the total gravitational energy available).

http://home.debitel.net/user/andreas.bunkahle/jpg/Plate6.JPG

Mansoor Ali

15th January 2006, 07:18 PM

PART TWO
2) Very energetic – hot – dust after the explosions. Demolition charges would produce white clouds of dust, which would not move much, and a gravity-driven collapse would produce much less and more coarse dust.

3) Brown shades of color seen in the air – these are produced by nuclear reactions of a thermonuclear device. The reactions use (gamma radiation caused by free neutrons, N2, O2, H2O > nitrid acid, NO2, NO3). These clouds soon get their usual white color after some minutes as the heat and fast movement of the clouds cease becoming ordinary clouds with some water.

Mansoor Ali

15th January 2006, 07:24 PM

PART THREE
4) Superheated steel objects, disintegrating into steel vapour. Molten ponds of steel were found in the elevator shafts. There were lots of burned cars in the parking areas of the towers. The fire department did not announce until 12/19/2001 that the fires under the WTC rubble have been extinguished - more than 3 months after the incident.
http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/ther.jpg
location F C name
A 1341 727 WTC7
B 1034 557 WTC7
C 1161 627 WTC1
D 963 517 WTC1
E 819 437 WTC3
F 801 427 WTC2
G 1377 747 WTC2
H 1017 547 WTC4

Mansoor Ali

15th January 2006, 07:28 PM

PART FOUR

5) Elevated values of tritium in this area, but not elsewhere in New York. The University of California found elevated values on 9/13/2001 and 9/21/2001 within bounds of the WTC. They found them harmless for health. In pure hydrogen bomb isotopes of hydrogen are fused (D + T > n + a + 17.6 MeV).

6) An EMP-type phenomenon blacked out cellular phones at the moment when the first (southern) tower started to 'fall down', at the exact moment when a small thermonuclear bomb was detonated. Even in electronic cameras and videos a strange afterglow was seen in the late phase of the 'collapse' of both of the towers.

Mansoor Ali

15th January 2006, 07:30 PM

PART FIVE
http://home.debitel.net/user/andreas.bunkahle/jpg/Plate5.JPG

Mansoor Ali

15th January 2006, 07:34 PM

PART SIX

7) A pressure wave was witnessed in the root of the tower at the moment when the so-called collapse was progressing just about two hundred meters and nothing had fallen down to earth. The blast wave turned over for example a photographer and a fireman close to the entrance, who was taking photos of the dust cloud. The burst of the dust cloud on the root of the tower was photographed as well. In the image at the left below is what probably was the explosion of WTC 6. The Customs building was deliberately exploded for some reason - it was not damaged because of the falling girders as they had not yet reached the roof of WTC 7 when the photo was taken. A couple of seconds later the clouds of the explosion were already partly above the roof of WTC 7, which was too energetical to be caused by usual blasting agents. This suggests it was the second hydrogen bomb in the WTC block. The first hydrogen bomb is discharging upwards (pulverized concrete) exactly in the picture, and the steel structures vaporized by the bomb are already falling down 100 meters (approx. 328 ft.) farther down. The mass of cloud, caused by vaporized steel, is seen in the center of the picture and even more clearly in the picture at the right.
http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/wt2sor.JPGhttp://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/dusttrail1.jpg

Mansoor Ali

15th January 2006, 07:39 PM

PART SEVEN

8) In the cellar, out of all the 47 ultra strong steel pillars, the steel was melted completely at the length of more than 20 meters (approx. 65 ft). Even cars were melted and burned in the cellar. The pillars were far too thick for thermite, which some have suggested. An explosion of a thermonuclear bomb explains the phenomenon well.

9) Steel columns and pillars were ejected in the surroundings of the building. In the beginning of the so-called collapse, no such energy exists that could throw steel pillars outwards from 60 to 175 meters (approx. from 170 to 574 ft.) from trunk. Not even cutting charges can do that. Instead, the blast wave from a nuclear bomb is capable of doing that.

gag order

16th January 2006, 12:03 AM

conspiracy theories have now reached a level of popularity and acceptance that it has never enjoyed before. but this popularity and the willingness of an increasing number of people to accept these theories*******as bieng 'written in stone' presents us with a problem that may cause us to unwittingly fall into KUFR and SHIRK. with this in mind it is in the interest of the muslims that they be warned of the dangers that exist.

throughout history there have been real conspiracies however history itself is NOT controlled by a timeless conspiracy this is the fallacy of the conspiracy theorists as muslims we believe that destiny is in the charge of allah. since many of these theories are pertaining to muslims we should verify not just the subject but also the numerous assumptions that the conspiracy theorists requires one to believe in order for the conspiracy theory to work. in most cases they are dismissed by experts in the end since there are no established standards with which to test them. they remain in the realm of allegation and speculation.

having visited a multitude of conspiracy websites over the years i saw a pattern emerge.*******recently i began to note down characteristics*******and develop*******rules that could be used to test*******an allegation of conspiracy*******to see if it undermines our aqeeda our methodology and the world-view which islam seeks to project.

of all the conspiracy theories circulating the web none is more sinister than the conspiracy behind the*******conspiracy theories. 

on the subject of islam and muslims, with relation to terrorism or jihad, the conspiracy theorists have in principle 7*******characteristics that influence their analysis on current events relating to islam and muslims:

1. they maintain there is no God therefore religion has no basis. (a great many conspiracy theorists are secular humanists preffering to believe in alien life forms rather than a diety and as such they consider the muslims irrational and backward and corrupt for belonging to an "organized religion").

2.*******many consider alqaida be it ALL mujahideen a part of the freemasonic agenda*******- the other side of the coin as it were, working in tandem. The conspiracy theorists maintain that jihad or mujahideen serve the purpose of furthering*******and progressing the NWO.******* (on the contrary islam holds the notion that jihad and mujahideen will always exist it is a continous chain*******stretching from Badr to the*******final battle when Isa (as) will slay the dajjal. 'a group of my ummah will continue to fight for the truth and overcome those who resist them until the last of them (mahdi) fights the dajjal).**************

3.*******many claim that the*******'war on terror' is about oil, gas pipelines, globalisation, and creating a police state etc etc and has little to do with religion. (this is only half the truth. indeed along the way*******'they will spare nothing to ruin you' as allah has said but*******what drives them to commit this aggression is that we believe in allah and they do not).*******

4. that*******EVERY incident or event or disaster natural or otherwise*******is engineered by secret societies they claim danger is everywhere and the ones to blame are the elites who use the hegelian dialectic of 'problem-reaction-solution' to further their agenda*******(this is problematic for the muslims becos*******it negates*******'the will of allah' and this KUFR. in the quran allah tells us that they indeed*******plot and plan but allah draws our attention to the fact He (swt) is the best of*******planners - it is allah who allows or disallows).

5.*******they allot superhuman talents and/or resources to conspirators.*******they require conspirators to possess unique discipline, uncommon psychological insight the cunning and ability to maintain a timeless plot spanning many generations without having made a single mistake*******etc etc. (the apparent 'success' of the*******conspirators thus far is not due to just their own cunning and ingenuity but by allah's permission 'we grant them respite so that they may grow in their inquity' even when the conspirators make mistakes the conspiracy theorists would like you to believe that it was in fact intended and planned therefore it was no mistake and that EVERYTHING happens according to their agenda - however in stark contrast the muslim believes that only allah is free from error and EVERYTHING happens according to his will)*******

6. they seek to mislead the muslims with regard to jihad and mujahideen by propagating opposing and contradictory views, versions or theories. (the inside job plot or a false flag operation is a conspiracy favourite. such things are officially denied by the administration*******connected with the allegation but then allowed to spread via conspiracy theory websites without hinderance. its built around the premise that since jihad and mujahideen are myths then the western establishment can only be destroyed or defeated by itself paving the way for the New World Order. if they are able to convince enough muslims*******of an inside job or a false flag then they have succeeded in neutralizing support and sympathy for the mujahideen).*******

7. who stands to gain? (this is a standard forensic investigative principle that is sometimes missapplied in criminal investigations and even moreso by conspiracy theorists.*******an example of application and missaplication of this rule: a rich man has been murdered, the investigation will focus on those who stand to inherit from him BUT what if the rich man was*******in reality murdered by*******an unknown*******robber who wanted*******his wallet rather than the millions he has*******in his account?*******conspiracy theorists always assume that the*******shadowy powers that be*******will gain ALL OF THE TIME).





SUMMARY



for a conpiracy theory to work you have to first believe that:



- that jihad and mujahideen are part of the freemasons, created and funded by the US for instance and as such mujahideen no longer exist and jihad is suspended (this is contrary to the prophecy of the rasool)



- the war on terror is NOT a war on islam but a war to posses resources and accumulate wealth and to increase police powers (to what end they never say ???)



- that*******the conspirators*******NEVER make*******mistakes,*******everything is perfectly planned and happens according to their will and to their satisfaction ALL OF THE TIME.



- that the conspirators gain ALL OF THE TIME and never suffer a setback and if they just so happen to suffer a setback then they did it to themselves on purpose as a sacrifice to "baphomet" - in other words you have to believe that allah has no power over them whatsoever.

- anyone who believes in a conspiracy theory is likely to believe in other conspiracy theories such as UFO's,*******atlantis etc etc!

gag order

16th January 2006, 12:31 AM

An EMP-type phenomenon blacked out cellular phones at the moment when the first (southern) tower started to 'fall down', at the exact moment when a small thermonuclear bomb was detonated. Even in electronic cameras and videos a strange afterglow was seen in the late phase of the 'collapse' of both of the towers. if there really had been an EMP*******pulse*******then news helicopters and the ANG's F-16's over manhattan would have fallen out the sky but that did not happen because there was no thermonuclear detonation therefore*******NO EMP!*******

the after glow in cameras or TV's or anything with a viewing screen is the result of an EMP pulse*******which would*******cause them to fail however on the day, as the buildings collapsed it was all caught on film LIVE the camera kept rolling therefore NO EMP NO NUCLEAR BOMB!*******

Mansoor Ali

16th January 2006, 02:06 AM

conspiracy theories have now reached a level of popularity and acceptance that it has never enjoyed before. but this popularity and the willingness.............................
How many times do you want to say this?
Why not just keep it in the "How to spot a fake conspiracy theory" thread?

Mansoor Ali

16th January 2006, 02:13 AM

Why the World Trade Centre Towers Collapsed
PART ONE

The airplanes did not have a true effect on the destruction of towers; they were needed to give an excuse for odd Orwellian wars at the same time when the USA is turned into a police nation, like the German Third Reich, to some extent. The towers took the impacts of Boeing 767's. The towers were originally built to take impacts of Boeing 707's, which are approximately of the same size and was widely used in the 1970's.

Fires that kindled from the fuel in the planes were too shortlasting and weak to be able to severely damage the structure of the skyscrapers. Even in the extreme situation, the heat from a kerosene fire cannot threat the durability of a steel trunk. With the temperature of carbohydrate fires that reaches only 825 °C (approx. 1517 °F) steel weakens at 800 °C (approx. 1470 °F) and melts at 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F). In the skyscrapers of the WTC the surroundings were not at all ideal as there were far too many steel columns and they led heat away from the burning area. WTC 1 burned for around 102 minutes and WTC 2 for around 56 minutes only. A fire burning much longer, from 10 to 20 hours, could slowly bring the burning temperature to perhaps 1100 °C (approx. 2010 °F). Provided there is more substance to burn, such a fire will damage concrete and irons, but not severely heavy steel constructions.

Mansoor Ali

16th January 2006, 02:17 AM

PART TWO

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/mad.jpg
In mid-February in Madrid, the Windsor Tower (see above) burned for over 20 hours, which led to a fire stronger and hotter than that in the WTC, but even the collapses of the Windsor Tower in Spain caused by the very strong and long-enduring fire were minimal and limited to the upper floors. If either of the WTC tower had started to collapse because of fires the collapse would have been limited to only a few of the floors and then stopped.

A collapse would produce large pieces, and does not explain reports of fine dust from concrete, huge amounts of dust and pieces of steel ejected outwards:

http://home.debitel.net/user/andreas.bunkahle/jpg/Plate6.JPG

Mansoor Ali

16th January 2006, 02:21 AM

...and does not explain reports of fine dust from concrete huge amounts of dust and pieces of steel ejected outwards:
http://www.terrorize.dk/911/wtc1dem7/avalanche.3.1.jpg
http://www.terrorize.dk/911/wtc1dem7/avalanche.4.2.jpg

Mansoor Ali

16th January 2006, 02:24 AM

PART THREE

Destruction of the towers by explosions is clear according to the photographs and reports of the eye witnesses. In the picture below, a range of cutting charges have just exploded in the down left sector and a typical white cloud is formed outwards from the wall. Down right, explosions are seen as well. Even a flame is seen.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/sor8.jpg

Mansoor Ali

16th January 2006, 02:34 AM

PART FOUR
In video tapes taken of the so-called collapses of the WTC, more explosions of these cutting charges can be seen. The explosions advance quickly, with a gap of a couple of floors, cutting the strong steel pillars in the outer wall. The explosions are timed so that it appears that the tower collapses occur in the same timing as in a gravitational collapse. The explosions are not completely synchronized in timing, probably a few charges are triggered by radio, and other charges explode out of the impulses of one of these charges (infrared, pressure wave).

More challenging problems to the demolition men, however, were the central cores of the buildings and the 47 steel pillars which were more robust than the ones on the outer rounds. The pillars of the central cores were made of steel, thicker than the side armours of a battle tank. Cutting those, even with explosives, is extremely difficult. One would need to surround the whole pillars, every single pillar on every floor intended to get blasted, with powerful cutting charges.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/wtc1_core.jpg
Far more than a mere "service core", it comprised of 47 steel box columns tied together at each floor by steel plates, similar to the 52" deep spandrel plates that tied the perimeter columns together. The largest of these core columns were 18"x36", with steel walls 4" thick near the base and tapering in thickness toward the top, and was anchored directly to the bedrock.

Mansoor Ali

16th January 2006, 02:40 AM

PART FIVE
A plausible theory:
As seen in the following pictures, the cores of the towers were not distracted by thousands of powerful cutting charges but by a modern thermonuclear explosive, a small hydrogen bomb. On its way up the waves of fire pressure partially penetrated about 100 floors of concrete and steel. Over ten million degrees of heat caused by a hydrogen bomb sublimised all water within the concrete in a moment. Water exploded extremely quickly into 24-fold volume and totally pulverized the concrete. Even people and computers that were in the buildings disappeared turning into heat and light. That is why almost nothing of them was found in the ruins.

Burning radiation is absorbed in steel so quickly that steel heats up immediately over its melting point 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F) and above its boiling point around 3000 C (approx. 5430 °F). In the pictures down below, super hot groups of steel pillars and columns, torn from wall by pressure wave, are sublimized. They immediately turn into a vaporized form, binding heat as quickly as possible. Bursts upwards, even visible in the picture below, are not possible for a gravitational collapse or for cutting charges which are used horizontally.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/sor11.jpg
http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/nuke1.jpg
In the upper picture the explosion is in theory 100 times stronger than in the picture below, but in practice the difference is only four times due to the capability of direction of a small hydrogen bomb.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/w.jpg

gag order

16th January 2006, 11:35 PM

thermonuclear or conventional?

two opposing conspiracy theories promoted by the same*******conspiracist? this is caused by the tinfoil wrapping around the head and coathangers dangling from the ceiling. 

a*******thermonuclear blast from ground up blows the building to smithereen 

OR 

conventional demolition charges blowing each floor from top to ground?*******

Mansoor Ali

17th January 2006, 04:21 AM

thermonuclear or conventional?
According to the following examination, both -

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/nuke.gif

if there really had been an EMP pulse then news helicopters and the ANG's F-16's over manhattan would have fallen out the sky but that did not happen because there was no thermonuclear detonation therefore NO EMP!

the after glow in cameras or TV's or anything with a viewing screen is the result of an EMP pulse which would cause them to fail however on the day, as the buildings collapsed it was all caught on film LIVE the camera kept rolling therefore NO EMP NO NUCLEAR BOMB!

However, when the nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan the bombers did not fall out of the sky as they flew past the explosions. Cameras have recorded nuclear detonations:
http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/atomic/images/ngbomb2a.jpg
Nagasaki mushroom cloud.
http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/atomic/images/tsnp02s.jpg
20,000 ton warhead, May 1 1952
http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/atomic/images/bravo1s.gif
15,000,000 ton warhead, March 1 1954

intissar

18th January 2006, 05:27 PM

Part 5 seems to fit all the requirements !!

The Americans nevertheless are convinced of Osama's doing......
They are literally paranoid - but then they are convinced of their own superiority.
It is hard to even imagine that the Americans would ever blame Israel for any involvement.
Instead they are waiting for Armageddon - anyone being convinced that he/she will be rescued during the rapture. So why sweat...

In the wake of 9 - 11 the American "law endorsement" now opens mail that is sent overseas - in case it is related to nobody else but the notorious terrorists.
Osama has more privacy than a casual American....

gag order

18th January 2006, 08:41 PM

However, when the nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan the bombers did not fall out of the sky as they flew past the explosions. Cameras have recorded nuclear detonations:
you missed the point. what you have mentioned*******are analog devices of the 40's but today that is not the case, 

the cameras that recorded the destruction and the choppers and f-16's in the air now have digital components that are easily affected by EMP, 

since they remained unaffected therefore was no EMP pulse and certainly no thermonuclear explosion to produce that pulse therefore this is just another fake conspiracy by someone who really should have paid more attention in class!

Mansoor Ali

19th January 2006, 04:02 AM

since they remained unaffected therefore was no EMP pulse and certainly no thermonuclear explosion to produce that pulse therefore this is just another fake conspiracy..............................
The power elite of north America have already dealt with the problems of EMP:
The Department of Defense has already established an Electromagnetic Compatibility Program (EMCP) to ensure that communication equipment subsystems, and systems are protected from electromagnetic interference of all kinds. That program was implemented to ensure that electromagnetic compatibility is maintained through design, acquistion, and operational phases. Numerous semiconductor manufacturers produce what are called "radiation-hardened" integrated circuits, just for that reason.
Aircraft and missles usually have a nearly complete metallic exterior covering that serves as a shield from electromagnetic fields. EMP resistance is designed into the aircraft's equipment. One example of that would be in the area of circuit design. Small loops make better antennas for EMP's than short straight lines; therefore, circuits are designed in tree or branching layouts rather than in more conventional circuit loops.

gag order

20th January 2006, 01:55 AM

Aircraft and missles usually have a nearly complete metallic exterior covering that serves as a shield from electromagnetic fields. EMP resistance is designed into the aircraft's equipment. and what about digital cameras? they continued to record the towers and didnt shut down despite the alleged EMP pulse. tv's kept running, mobile phones kept ringing this is proof that there was no EMP spike therefore no thermonuclear explosion to produce that effect.

Mansoor Ali

20th January 2006, 03:50 AM

Whether or not micro-nuclear bombs were detonated in the WTC, one thing is certain - the collapse of the two towers was brought about by explosives:
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/wtc_fig_01.gif
Maybe not Hiroshima-style 15-kiloton blasts but perhaps the sort produced by mini-nukes developed in recent years by the Pentagon.
and what about digital cameras? they continued to record the towers and didnt shut down despite the alleged EMP pulse.
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Pakistan/ChagaiTest2.jpg
Cameras recorded the Pakistan nuclear test at Ras Koh, May 28 1998.

gag order

20th January 2006, 09:29 PM

what type of camera was used in ras koh?

what was the proximity?

and do the camera and news people of NY have the resorces to sheild their consumer devices from EMP like the resources available to the pakistan nuclear project?

these are some of the things you should have thought about before pasting in such a hurry! 

despite the EMP spike in ras koh the camera kept recording, just one problem,*******how could you compare the consumer handycam in the hands of a new yorker with that of specialist military equipment in the hands of military scientists under controlled conditions in pakistan? this is what i mean when i say conspiracy theories have no methodology or deductive logic!

as i have said before no EMP therefore no thermonuclear explosion therefore no conspiracy!

Mansoor Ali

21st January 2006, 03:19 AM

as i have said before ................... no conspiracy!
"According to the law of gravity, it is possible to calculate the time it takes for an object to fall a given distance. The equation is H=(1/2)at2, where H is the height, a is the acceleration of gravity (10 meters per second squared) and t is time in seconds. Plug in the height of the building at 1350 feet (411 meters) and we get 9 seconds. According to reports, the whole thing was over in around ten seconds.

It is as if the entire building were falling straight down through thin air. As if the entire solid structure below, the strong part which had not been burned or sliced or harmed in any significant way, just disappeared into nothingness. Yet this (within a small tolerance) is what we would expect to find if there had been a controlled demolition, because the explosions below really do leave the upper stories completely unsupported.

Any kind of viscous process or friction process should have slowed the whole thing down. Like dropping a lead ball into a vat of molasses, or dropping a feather into the air, gravitational acceleration cannot achieve its full effect if it is fighting any opposing force. In the case of the World Trade Centre, the intact building below should have at least braked the fall of the upper stories. This did not happen. There was no measurable friction at all.

This proves controlled demolition."

--- Jerry Russel, MS in engineering.

Mansoor Ali

24th January 2006, 05:34 AM

http://www15.ocn.ne.jp/~oyakodon/dmt/757attackWTClarger.jpg
A plane is about to dive into South tower of WTC. Do you see something funny underneath its body?
http://www15.ocn.ne.jp/~oyakodon/dmt/object_filtered.jpghttp://www15.ocn.ne.jp/~oyakodon/dmt/object-enhanced.jpg
A MISSILE IS SHOT FROM THE MISSILE POD UNDERNEATH THE BODY.
http://bigrosebang.com/911/911-plane2.gif

seanld

26th January 2006, 06:00 PM

You are writing LIES! Much of the *crap* you write "Mansoor Ali" (more like "Monsoon A Lies") has been debunked by Popular Mechanics or others. Your photo of the turbofan, that you say "couldn't have come from a Boeing 757 *did* come from a Boeing 757 *internally*. Just in case you don't know what "internally" means, I'll say it simply: it came from *inside* the engine, not the outside. You keep showing the photo of a crashed jet engine and it's OUTER fan, that ISN'T the fan that is on the Pentagon lawn. Here is a diagram, which CLEARLY shows the fan in question; it is marked with the number 45 over the number 46 (it also has the letter "a" circled with a line pointing to the fan in question.

I am unable to paste the diagram here (for some reason) but, it is available here:

http://www.911-strike.com/engines.htm

So cut the crap, ok? All your theories have been debunked. A poll taken two weeks ago by Gallup shows that less than 4% believe there was ANY conspiracy involved in 9/11. That percent is LESS than the statistical variance of ERROR. No one SANE, no one who isn't a WACKO believes that 9/11 was the work of anyone OTHER than terrorists lead by Bin Laden.

Your polemic is so hurtful to people who have lost loved ones in 9/11, not to MENTION the people who SAW what you claim they *didn't* see. You are even WORSE than the idiots that are still trying to prove that we never went to the moon! However, in both cases (thankfully) the general public believe you morons to be just that, morons, if they even *know* that you exist!

Even you don't know what you believe. In one post you claim that the plane that hit WTC was "doctored" video, in another you claim that it WAS a plane, but it had a "pod" attached to it (something that Popular Mechanics and a *bunch* of experts have proven is NOT a pod, but part of the plane and GLINT effecting the photo). So what is it Monsoon? Was it a missile, or was it a "modified" jet? Do you even know how dumb your ideas are? Watergate fell apart SO FAST, and SO MANY people blew the whistle that it brought down a *president*. But you believe that there is some *massive* conspiracy that must involve literally *hundreds* of people: setting up precision explosives in WTC building, making and attaching "pods" to jets, kidnapping one jet full of people and replacing it with another with a "pod", sending "drone" aircraft into the Pentagon, and on and on and on.

How stupid are you to believe that you could find that many people in the U.S.A. who would be willing to kill thousands of their own people, for WHAT? For WHAT? Oil?! A bigger defense budget? Come ON! One minute you call this government a bunch of idiots, the next they are so brilliant they planned, executed and got away with the most elaborate bombing plot in the history of the WORLD, and they fooled everyone except YOU!!! ALL these thousands of experts, who have NOTHING to gain by lying and EVERYTHING to lose, have been fooled. But, NOT YOU. Not the NON-scientific conspiracy nuts. Not some hurting firefighter, who wants to believe *anything* other than what really happened. Did you know that the poor guy has a history of mental illness? No, because you just want to keep spouting garbage.

Post away, I won't be back. This is all the time I'll commit to this utter nonsense. I'll just say this; if you think that doing this idiocy in some way exonerates the Muslim community, you are very wrong. This just gives the stupid people, who would indict all the Muslim community, MORE to chew on. To them it looks like the guilty party pointing fingers at *anyone* else but them. There are extremists in *every* religion. The people who call themselves Christians who bomb abortion clinics DO NOT represent me, in any way. I know, and most normal Americans know that the terrorists who did this are NUT JOBS, and they DO NOT represent most Muslims.

Ask yourself this ONE question: Is this absurd crusade of conspiracy you are on enriching your life in ANY way? What does it lead to? Or is it simply angry, delirious ramblings that one day you will REGRET. James McCloskey (executive director of Centurion Ministries, a New Jersey organization) had for *years* been fighting to prove the innocence of convicted killer Roger Keith Coleman, who died in the electric chair in 1992. Finally the Gov. of New Jersey ok'd a DNA test to once and for all would solve the case. This January 13th the results came back which PROVED that Coleman WAS GUILTY. James McCloskey had this to say when he heard the news, "Indeed, this is a bitter pill to swallow," McCloskey said, describing Thursday's findings as "a kick in the stomach," adding that he felt betrayed by Coleman.

McCloskey not only wasted YEARS of his life trying to prove the innocence of a GUILTY man, he greatly hurt the loved ones of Coleman's victim. His credibility is now CRAP, who is going to believe him now when he come calling to plead the case of some other person he believes is "innocent"? No one!

Monsoon, do yourself a favor, DUMP this garbage. Get rid of it, really. It is NOT helping your life. It's absurd; there is no giant conspiracy of people who "did" 9/11. Get a life, drop this junk, stop making yourself look like a jackass. Seriously, stop hurting people and yourself with this trash.

Mansoor Ali

27th January 2006, 03:35 AM

You are writing LIES! Much of the *crap* you write "Mansoor Ali" (more like "Monsoon A Lies") has been debunked by Popular Mechanics or others. Your photo of the turbofan.................................

"Popular Mechanics" has been refuted by 9/11 researchers. Here is the debunking of "Popular Mechanics"
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm

Mansoor Ali

28th January 2006, 07:58 PM

http://davidicke.com/news/data/upimages/netanyahu.jpg
On the day of the 9-11 attacks, former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked what the attack would mean for US-Israeli relations. His reply was: "It's very good ... Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy"

Mansoor Ali

1st February 2006, 04:59 AM

http://www.vialls.com/wtc/radiocontrol.html

This continuous footage allows you time to study the flight profile over and over again, until you reach the inevitable conclusion that this giant airliner is being flown with the sort of dexterity more normally associated with nimble combat aircraft and at a very similar speed.
As any airline pilot will confirm independently, the 'reverse feel' on a Boeing 767 travelling at 575 mph is so high that the controls feel like lead, and simply cannot be moved as quickly as you see in the film without overwhelming hydraulic assistance, which can be provided only by the automatic flight director. The pilots themselves cannot disengage the 'reverse feel' placed on the controls, because it is an integrated feature designed to stop the pilots accidentally injuring passengers by imposing extreme "G" forces at high speeds.
In turn this reveals the obvious: If qualified airline captains are incapable of flying a Boeing 767 in this manner, then it is completely out of the question for a bunch of "Arab Terrorist Hijackers", who failed their basic Cessna training courses in Florida.
Put bluntly, this is the only known footage of United Airlines Flight 175 that completely destroys the government myth about Muslims taking over American commercial jets. The short clips showing Flight 175 just before impact do not allow time for such detailed analysis, but this long attack profile certainly does.

Abu Hatim

1st February 2006, 04:38 PM

Which Islamic scholars to you follow Mansoor? I'm not asking you your manhaj, I'm asking you to name scholars you listen to that are living today. It is very revelent to this conversation. thank you

Mansoor Ali

1st February 2006, 04:58 PM

It isn't relevant to this discussion.

Abu Hatim

1st February 2006, 05:16 PM

your response answered my question.

Mansoor Ali

5th February 2006, 05:22 PM

Investing the alleged hijackers. Part One

*There are only 7 hijackers total shown on camera. Possibly to establish a trail and history and the others to later support the idea that there were hijackers.

*Only 5 are supposedly shown getting on to a 9/11 Flight[Flt 77](again given to us 3 years later with no date/time stamp).

*2 (Atta and Al-Umari)[Flt 11] are shown at an ATM. Also at a gas station, and at a Portland, ME Airport before 9/11. Atta is also shown at a Wal-Mart.

*Another 2 (Hanjour and Moqed)[Flt 77] are also shown at an ATM. And those same 2 are shown as part of the 5 supposedly shown at Dulles on a grainy video, with no date/time stamp, that was given to us 3 yrs later.

The only 4 shown on ATM close up cam, released on *9/27/01*:

Flight 11, Mohammed Atta and Abdalaziz Al-Umari
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/atta_atm.jpg
Flight 77, Hani Hanjour and Majed Moqed
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/hanjour_moqued_atm.jpg
LA Times has the following caption for the photo: "An undated ATM surveillance photo shows suspected hijackers Hani Hanjour, left, and Majed Moqed.

Years after 9/11, no surveillance video exists of any of the Flight 93 or 175 hijackers, either before 9/11 or on 9/11.

Mansoor Ali

8th February 2006, 07:43 AM

Investigating the alleged hijackers

Part Two*******

let's look at the individual alleged hijackers...


Mohammed Atta and Abdulaziz Al-Umari


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/atta_portland.jpg

Atta at Wal-Mart, 20 minutes:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/walmart.jpg

Atta (and Alomari) at the Gas Station:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/portl16.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/portl14.jpg

Let's now focus on Abdulaziz Alomari...

Here's what the flight manifest the Boston Globe shows up as:

http://graphics.boston.com/news/packages/underattack/images/aa_flight_11_manifest.gif

-That leads to Adnan Bukhari, who lived next door, another pilot trainee. But they turn out to be clean and alive. And not related to 9/11. How did they end up at Adnan Bukhari?
Adnan and Ameer Bukhari's] names had been tied to a car found at an airport in Portland, Maine. But Bukhari's attorney said it appeared their identifications were stolen and said Bukhari had no role in the hijackings.

The Mitsubishi(Nissan Altima) sedan sources said was rented by Atta, contained materials written in Arabic, including flight manuals, that law enforcement sources called "helpful" to the investigation.[CNN

The two rented a car, a silver-blue Nissan Altima, from an Alamo car rental at Boston's Logan Airport and drove to an airport in Portland, Maine, where they got on US Airways Flight 5930 at 6 a.m. Tuesday headed back to Boston, the sources said.

Before CNN learned the identities of the two brothers, Portland Police Chief Mike Chitwood said, "I can tell you those two individuals did get on a plane and fly to Boston early yesterday morning ... I can tell you that they are the focus of a federal investigation." [People's Daily 9/13/2001]

A trail of evidence led investigators into Tuesday's terrorist attacks from one abandoned rental car in Portland, Maine, to two houses in Vero Beach, Florida. One of the Vero Beach houses had been rented by two brothers from Saudi Arabia. Inside it were two pilot's certificates in the names of Adnan Bukhari and his brother, Ameer Abbas Bukhari. [BBC News]

And what about this car?

(Mohamed) Atta and (Abdulaziz) Alomari boarded a 6:00 a.m. flight from Portland to Boston's Logan International Airport. [SFGate]
A Mitsubishi sedan [Atta] rented was found at Boston's Logan Airport. Arabic language materials were found in the car. [CNN]

How did Atta leave a rental car at Logan Airport in Boston when he supposedly flew there from Portland, Maine?

The official story:

[Atta] rented a car at Logan Airport Alamo and drove to Maine [on September 10]. Then flew down from Portland, Maine, early Tuesday before connecting on Flight 11. [Boston.com]

Why would Atta leave a rental car containing incriminating evidence at Logan Airport, rent another car in Boston to drive to Maine, then fly back to Boston again?

Even the 9/11 Commission couldn't explain this conundrum...

Atta picked up Omari at another hotel [on September 10], and the two drove to Portland, Maine, for reasons that remain unknown. [9/11 Commission Report]

...and they didn't look for answers.

The Bukharis provide(d) a key to the enigma

Early accounts stated it was Adnan and Ameer Bukhari who rented the car from Logan Airport Alamo and abandoned it at Portland, not Mohamed Atta. The Bukharis "did get on a plane and fly to Boston", Adnan Bukhari's name reportedly appeared on Flight 11's manifest, and a trail of evidence led investigators to Adnan Bukhari's house.

Within hours of the attacks it was nearly "case closed" that the Bukharis were hijackers of Flight 11, but a couple of simple facts proved their innocence - Ameer Bukhari died in a plane crash in 2000 and Adnan Bukhari is alive.

Mansoor Ali

16th February 2006, 03:43 AM

Investigating the alleged hijackers

Part Three

"Abdulaziz Al-omari", the Saudi Engineer.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Abdulaziz_al-omari_alive.jpg

"I couldn't believe it when the FBI put me on their list. They gave my name and my date of birth, but I am not a suicide bomber. I am here. I am alive. I have no idea how to fly a plane. I had nothing to do with this."

Mr Al-Omari said his passport was stolen when his apartment in Denver, Colorado, was burgled in 1995. He had been studying engineering at Denver University since 1993. He was given a new passport in Riyadh on December 31, 1995 and returned to America to resume his studies in January 1996. [Telegraph]

The official photograph used to this date of Abdulaziz Alomari:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Abdulaziz_al-Omari.png

The other Al-Omari:http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/attaol6.jpg

The same person?

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/alomari.gif

The hijacker*******farewell clip(we will get more into this as well) released September 10th, 2002: 

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/11wld_video0.jpg

The Dulles Video released *July 20, 2005* [Flt 77]:


July 20, 2005
(CNN) -- A surveillance video from Washington's Dulles International Airport the morning of September 11, 2001, shows four of five hijackers passing through security checks before boarding the plane they would crash into the Pentagon.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/253_dulles_hijackers2.jpg

"Nawaf Alhazmi" gets searched, "Khalid Almihdhar", and "Hani Hanjour".

this *undated/without time code stamp* grainy surveillance video, given to us 3 yrs later, it shows "Hani Hanjour", pictured all the way to the right.

intissar

18th February 2006, 07:11 PM

Gore Vidal in "Imperial America" ranks the American reading level among the 3. World countries. At the same time the number of illiterates is relentlessly climbing.
He describes the Americans as extremely gullible and very easy to be manipulated. So we should not be surprised that the Americans undeterredly cling to their delusional belief that jealous Muslims did it.

Similarly, the American Christians, rudely asserting in their cowboy-mentality that America has the world's best health care, seek health care via faith healing in revivalist churches. Their health insurances, if they should have any, usually barely covers anything.
If the Americans would read they'd know that their health care is ranked place 37, far below South Arabia - and among 3. world countries.
_____________________________________

Of course Israel is happy about 9 - 11.
Netanjahu and company want Erez Israel !

Now Afghanistan is occupied again: Chevron gets the pipeline and the CIA poppy-money. So the military dictator Musharraf and the ISI can conveniently be controlled - without American support the populace might rise and install somebody else via a coup. After all, even the Pakistanis want democracy and no sell-out for America/Israel.

Iraq is occupied and plenty of American bases have been installed. So the Americans can race to Israel's rescue, if needed.

Saudi Arabia and Egypt are close American buddies: without American support they cannot keep the populace in check who want to get rid of their dictators.

Syria has a bloodless coup d'etat, thanks to Mehlis and Hariri.
Assad eagerly does the UN's bidding to stay in power.

Iran is next. The nuclear fuel issues to supply the country with energy so that the oil can be sold for profit - and an alternative is established once it runs out - will escalate into a war. American and Israeli vetos at the UN will gladly provide for that.

The Palestinian come out smartest from 9 - 11: they voted Hamas into power.
Hamas hopefully remains steadfast in the face of all the adversity they are facing: if the Israelis don't want to talk with them - why sweat ?
Putin did. And if the Russians are willing to invest in Palestine - why beg the Israelis ?
_____________________________

Did the living highjackers ever sue the American government for fraudulent abuse of their identities ?
Nothing frightens the Americans more than the words 'law suit' and attorney'.

Abu Hamza, as reported by his attorney, made many public statements that 'muslims were used as patsies'.
Apart from video fakes, the genuine Osama never took responsibility for it.

And then there is the intact passport that is found unscathed on the smouldering ruins.

The only live person the Americans have is poor Mussaouri. And the way he is described in the American mouthpiece-media, he seems to reflect a living example not of a potential highjacker - but of a human being submitted to mental/emotional torture.
Somebody who is totally brainwashed.

_____________________________

Iran will sell the oil in Euros as announced in the near future. So the war is starting pretty soon. Hopefully Iran will stop the oil sale to its enemies. OPEC should join and decrease its output.
The price will skyrocket....

Mansoor Ali

21st February 2006, 05:27 AM

Investigating the alleged hijackers

Part Four

Hani Hanjour, who is thinly built, with a long face and a high hairline:


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/hanjour_atm3.jpghttp://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/hanjour1.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/dulles_hanihanjour.jpg

THAT IS NOT HANI HANJOUR ABOVE. 

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/210704hijackers1.jpg

Hijacker brothers "Salem" (white shirt) and "Nawaf Alhazmi" (blue shirt) pass through security in Dulles Airport in Washington.
The US introduces the “Visa Express” program in Saudi Arabia, which allows any Saudi Arabian to obtain a visa through his or her travel agent instead of appearing at a consulate in person. An official later states, “The issuing officer has no idea whether the person applying for the visa is actually the person in the documents and application.” [9/11 Congressional Inquiry, 9/20/02; US News and World Report, 12/12/01]Five hijackers—Khalid Almihdhar, Abdulaziz Alomari, Salem Alhazmi, Saeed Alghamdi, and Fayez Ahmed Banihammad—use Visa Express over the next month to enter the US. [9/11 Congressional Inquiry, 9/20/02] 

The real Salem Al-Hazmi, however, is alive and indignant in Saudi Arabia, and not one of the people who perished in the American Airlines flight that crashed on the Pentagon. He works at a government-owned petroleum and chemical plant in the city of Yanbu.

"The Salem Al-Hamzi we have is 26 years old and has never been to the United States," Gaafar Allagany told the Washington Post. "He has said he is willing to come to the United States if anyone wants to see him."

There is another Salem Al-Hamzi and this is where it gets interesting...


February 2001: Two Hijackers Seen Living in San Antonio with Swapped Identities Complete 911 Timeline

At least six people with no connections to one another later claim they recognize hijackers Satam Al Suqami and Salem Alhazmi living in San Antonio, Texas, until this month. The management of an apartment building says the two men abandoned their leases at about this time, and some apartment residents recognize them. However, all the witnesses say that Suqami was going by Alhazmi's name, and vice versa! [KENS 5 Eyewitness News, 10/1/01] One pilot shop employee recognizes Alhazmi as a frequent visitor to the store and interested in a 757 or 767 handbook, though he also says Alhazmi used Suqami's name. [KENS 5 Eyewitness News, 10/3/01] The apartment-leasing agent also recalls a Ziad Jarrah who once lived there in June 2001 and looked the same as the hijacker. [Associated Press, 9/22/01 (B); San Antonio Express-News, 9/22/01] Local FBI confirm that a Salem Alhazmi attended the nearby Alpha Tango Flight School and lived in that apartment building, but they say he is a different Salem Alhazmi who is still alive and living in Saudi Arabia. [KENS 5 Eyewitness News, 10/4/01] However, that “Salem Alhazmi” says he has never been to the US and has proven to the authorities that he did not leave Saudi Arabia in the two years prior to 9/11. [Washington Post, 9/20/01] The FBI does not explain Satam Al Suqami's presence. Neither hijacker is supposed to have arrived in the US before April 2001.

shamilshihab

23rd February 2006, 08:42 AM

Assalaam alaikum
Brother Mansoor Ali, Is this all - about the septemper 11th Attack.

Wassalaam.

Mansoor Ali

24th February 2006, 08:19 AM

Investigating the alleged hijackers

Part Five



Khalid Al-Mihdar



Officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said they were exploring several possibilities. One was that al-Midhar never entered the country and his name was simply used as an alias by one of the hijackers who died. Another possibility was that he allowed his name to be used on the flight by another hijacker, so that U.S. officials might assume he died, giving him time to escape the country. A third was that he did in fact die in the crash as a hijacker. [Guardian]

Badr Mohammed H. Hazmi, a San Antonio radiologist under arrest as a material witness, has used the alias of Khalid Al-Midhar, who is listed by the FBI as a hijacker on the flight that struck the Pentagon, according to documents distributed to law enforcement agencies. [Washington Post]


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/Threealmihdhars.jpg



Three pictures of Almihdhar shown by the media

Eight days after the planes went down, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. distributed a "special alert" to its member banks asking for information about 21 "alleged suspects" in the attacks. The list said "Al-Midhar, Khalid Alive," raising the possibility that the real Almihdhar never died on the plane. But one Justice Department official called the listing a "typo." [Cox News Service]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While the FBI's confusion over Arabic names and identities was largely ignored in the American press, each blunder has made huge news in Saudi Arabia, casting doubt on U.S. intentions and convincing many Saudis that their country has been slandered.

"I want to think all this is a mistake," said a bewildered Khalid al-Mihammadi, 24, a computer programmer from Mecca who was named wrongfully in an early list of hijackers released by the U.S. Justice Department. "We are America's friends, and they do this to us. It isn't fair."

Al-Mihammadi, who spent nine months studying English in the U.S., said he was watching television at home when shaken friends saw his photograph on the news and began to call to see if he was still alive. [Chicago Tribune] 





Nawaf Al-Haazmi

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/NAlhazmi.JPG

The FBI and the 9/11 Commission report say that (Nawaf) al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar first entered the United States in 2000, but the Washington Post and the LA Times report that the two first came in 1999, and that al-Hazmi's name was on their future apartment's lease in November of 1999(Fall of '99).



So in the fall of '99, he was attending a training camp. But in '99, he was also in America-specifically in fall of '99 signing a lease for an Apartment. Although, the 911 Comm says they didn't come to the US until 2000. But it also appears he was in Wyoming in the fall of '99...


For the most part, the media has consistently reported that Alhazmi and Almihdhar first moved to the United States in early 2000, and the FBI Director has recently concurred. [San Diego Union-Tribune, 9/27/02]. However, numerous other reports suggest otherwise; that the two Saudis had been in the US before, and in the case of Alhazmi, long before. Soon after the attacks, the Wall Street Journal cited public records that put Alhazmi in San Diego as early as 1996. [Wall Street Journal, 9/17/01] Another story, reported by the Associated Press, placed Alhazmi in Cody, Wyoming in the fall of 1999. Witnesses said he was one of two men making a truck delivery from Canada to a high school there and had asked for directions to Florida. They left a very memorable impression. [AP, 10/23/01, Las Vegas Review Journal, 10/26/01]



March 2001: After living together in Phoenix since December 2000, hijackers Hani Hanjour and Nawaf Alhazmi move to Falls Church, Virginia. [Washington Post, 9/10/02 (B); 9/11 Commission Report, 1/26/04] 



So presumably, he was living in Phoenix, AZ from Dec. 2000-March 2001.










There are several reports that Alhazmi traveled to Arizona in January 2001, where he met up with 9/11 plotter Hani Hanjour to resume his flight training. For example, Newsweek reported that after “having flunked out of two California flight schools, [Alhazmi] decided to try his luck in Phoenix” where the magazine said he stayed until April 2001. [Newsweek, 6/2/02] The Los Angeles Times also reported that Alhazmi had renewed his flight training in Arizona but failed to mention for how long. [Los Angeles Times, 9/1/02] Another piece of evidence suggesting that Alhazmi had continued his training in Arizona included a cashier's check for a Phoenix-area flight school that was found in his car by FBI agents shortly after the attacks as well as evidence that he and Hanjour had flown from Phoenix to Las Vegas in June 2001. [Arizona Republic, 9/28/01] 



So he travelled back to Phoenix in January 2001. But in March 2001 he moves from Phoenix to Falls Church, VA. But Newsweek says he stayed in Phoenix until April 2001...a month later. But then apparently flew from Phoenix to Vegas in June 2001. How could he have done all this if he was living in Falls Church?

Let me get this straight. In January 2001 he flies from San Diego to Phoenix to "try his luck" there and resume his training, after "having flunked out of two California flight schools". But two months later(March 2001), moves to Falls Church, VA.(Although reports say he stayed until April). But apparently, he flew back to Phoenix from Falls Church in order to fly "from Phoenix to Vegas in June 2001".....

Mansoor Ali

26th February 2006, 11:25 PM

Investigating the alleged hijackers

Part Six



Ziad Jarraah



http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/images/122_jarrah_gym.jpg

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/images/117_jarrah_flying.jpg



In 1995, a person named Ziad Jarrah rented an apartment in a three-family house on East Third Street in Brooklyn, New York. [Among the Heroes by Jere Longman, 2002, p. 90] Landlords there identified his photograph as being the same as that of the 9/11 hijacker. A Brooklyn apartment lease from March 1995 until February 1996 bears Ziad Jarrah's name. [Boston Globe, 9/25/01] “Another man named Ihassan Jarrah lived with Ziad, drove a livery cab and paid the eight-hundred-dollar monthly rent. The men were quiet, well-mannered, said hello and good-bye. Ziad Jarrah carried a camera and told his landlords that he was a photographer. He would disappear for a few days on occasion, then reappear. Sometimes a woman who appeared to be a prostitute arrived with one of the men. ‘Me and my brother used to crack jokes that they were terrorists,’ said Jason Matos, a construction worker who lived in a basement there, and whose mother owned the house.” [Among the Heroes, by Jere Longman, 2002, p. 90]

The******* problem with the above is that*******Ziad Jarrah, twenty years old at the time, was actually still in his home country of Lebanon. He was studying in a Catholic school in Beirut, and was in frequent contact with the rest of his family. His parents drove him home to be with the family nearly every weekend, and they were in frequent contact by telephone as well. [Los Angeles Times, 10/23/01] Not until April 1996 did he leave Lebanon for the first time, to study in Germany. [Boston Globe, 9/25/01] His family believes that the New York lease proves that there were two Jarrahs. [CNN, 9/18/01] 

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/jarrah_3_small.jpg

Jarrah #1: Student visa photo of "Ziad Jarrah".
Jarrah #2: Authentic photo of alleged hijacker Ziad Jarrah taken in 1996. [BBC]
Jarrah #3: Passport photo of "Ziad Jarrah" found in the wreckage of Flight 93.

It is apparent that Jarrahs 1 & 3 are the same person. Compare them to Jarrah 2:

Head shape: wrong
Hairline: wrong
Nose shape: wrong


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/jarrah_lineup_small2_opt.jpghttp://cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/people/jarrahandsalim.jpg

'It makes no sense,'' his uncle, Jamal Jarrah, said in a telephone interview from the village of Al-Marj, Lebanon, recalling that two days before the hijacking, his nephew called and told the family he'd be coming home for a cousin's wedding in mid-September. ''He said he had even bought a new suit for the occasion.'' [Boston Globe]

Ziad Jarrah at the wedding of Said Bahaji: 

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/07-hijackers-inside.jpg

The best evidence of that are claims of a photo that shows Jarrah at the 1999 wedding of a Said Bahaji. Bahaji was a fugitive known to espouse fanatic views, and who once roomed with hijackers Atta and Alshehhi. [Los Angeles Times, 10/23/01] There supposedly is a photo where Ramzi Binalshibh, Zakariya Essabar, Bahaji, Marwan Alshehhi and Jarrah can be seen together. [Washington Post, 10/23/01] Supposedly, he shows up in a video from the wedding as well. [New York Times, 10/25/01] But we don't even know which Jarrah this is, or how well Jarrah knew these people.

Some time around February 2000, he lost his passport while waiting for a visa to go to the US. This was only two or three months after Atta and Alshehhi lost their passports. [Inside 9-11: What Really Happened, by Der Spiegel editors, 2002, p. 257-258] Investigators say all three were trying to cleanse their travel documents of visas that might arouse suspicion. [Los Angeles Times, 10/23/01] Could it be that someone stole his passport, as part of a trail of evidence designed to link him to the 9/11 attacks? Could the fake Jarrah have even used the real Jarrah's missing passport to enter the US?

In 1999, the presumably fake Ziad Jarrah got a pilot's license in Hamburg—the same license the real Jarrah would get in Florida later. [St. Petersburg Times, 9/27/01] It's hard to see how the real Jarrah could have gotten this license without his girlfriend or family knowing, why he wouldn't have told them, and where he would have found the time. Later, when he began flight training on single engine aircraft in Florida, he certainly didn't have the skills to indicate he already had a license for flying a single engine aircraft. [Boston Globe, 9/25/01] FFTC owner Arne Kruithof explained: “We had to do more to get him ready than others ... His flight skills seemed to be a little bit out there.” Even after 200 hours of flying, Kruithof could only charitably say, “He was a guy who needed some more.” [Among the Heroes, by Jere Longman, 2002, p. 91] Other students at FFTC were so frightened of Jarrah's flying skills that they refused to be in a plane if he was at the controls. [Among the Heroes by Jere Longman, 2002, p. 92]

Melih Demir, a fellow student at the university, was stunned at the accusation that Jarrah was a terrorist. “He was very happy all the time, making jokes. We could make jokes about him and ... I can't believe that he did something like this.” [Sunday Herald, 9/23/01] Classmate Michael Gotzmann, who was in a study group with Jarrah, also had a hard time believing he was one of the hijackers. “He never said anything bad about America,” he told Der Spiegel magazine. “To the contrary, he loved America, and said he always planned to go and study there.” [Boston Globe, 9/25/01]

He continued to call Senguen nearly every day, as he always did. [Inside 9-11: What Really Happened, by Der Spiegel editors, 2002, p. 191] Mahmoud Ali, the family friend, said Senguen called him on September 11 and told him that she had just spoken to Jarrah—- about an hour before he boarded United Flight 93 (stories that he called from the cockpit of Flight 93 are clearly exaggerations). She described the conversation as pleasant and normal, although it is unclear whether she knew he was flying that day. [Los Angeles Times, 10/23/01] According to a CBC interview with his uncle, his family didn't have the faintest suspicion that Jarrah was being tied to the 9/11 attacks until they were told several days after September 11 (listen to the 22-minute interview here).

And then on September 11, he vanished. His girlfriend Senguen alerted the police a few days later, calling to report him missing. German federal police said they found a suitcase of “airplane-related documents” in her home (note how that is made to sound vaguely ominous, but of course someone training to be a pilot would have some “airplane-related documents” !). A few days after September 11, Senguen checked into a witness protection program and dropped out of sight, leaving many questions about Jarrah unanswered. She later called Jarrah's family and the FBI, and insisted that Jarrah was not acquainted with any of the other alleged hijackers.

Mansoor Ali

14th March 2006, 03:02 PM

This discussion used to be 25 pages. It is now 22 pages.

My other discussion, "America's leaders take part in Satan worship" used to be 10 pages, but page 10 is missing.

What's going on?

Abuz Zubair

14th March 2006, 04:02 PM

Sorry, bro. The forum was attacked this morning, then one of our admins managed to delete quiet a few posts going stretching couple of weeks back I think :(

It wasn't not a conspiracy, though :)

Mansoor Ali

16th March 2006, 04:19 AM

Investigating the alleged hijackers

Part Seven



Ahmad Al-Ghaamidi

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/penttbom/ua175/alghamd2a.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/Ahmed_alghamdi_in_turban.jpg

From the 19 Martyrs video...not very convincing: 

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/martyrAhmedAlghamdi175.jpg

Here's the problem with Ahmed Alghamdi...

The Vienna, Virginia, house where Waleed Alshehri and Ahmad Alghaamidi lived. 

1999: Neighbors Report Suspicious Activities to CIA; No Apparent Response

Diane and John Albritton later say they call the CIA and police several times this year to report suspicious activity at a neighbor's home, but authorities fail to respond. [MSNBC, 9/23/01; New York Daily News, 9/15/01] Hijacker Waleed Alshehri is renting the house on Orrin Street in Vienna, Virginia, at the time (three blocks from a CIA facility). [Associated Press, 9/15/01 (B)] He makes his neighbors nervous. “There were always people coming and going,” said Diane Albritton. “Arabic people. Some of them never uttered a word; I don't know if they spoke English. But they looked very focused. We thought they might be dealing drugs, or illegal immigrants.” [New York Times, 9/15/01 (B)] Ahmed Alghamdi lived at the same address until July 2000. [Fox News, 6/6/02; World Net Daily, 9/14/01] Waleed Alshehri lived with Ahmed Alghamdi in Florida for seven months in 1997. [Daily Telegraph, 9/20/01]

In November (2000), both he and Salem al-Hazmi flew to Beirut, though on seperate flights and at different times. al-Ghamdi flew on the same flight as a senior Hezbollah operative, although the 9/11 Commission could find no knowledge that either knew of the other.

His family claims to have last seen him in December (2000).
[Arab News]

So in December 2000 he is seen by his family. 
In March of 2001, al-Ghamdi is reported to have met with a Jordanian who has been charged with providing false identification to at least 50 illegal aliens. Hijackers Majed Moqed, Hani Hanjour, and Nawaf Alhazmi are reported to have met with him at the same time.

But wait... 
Inexplicably, this is more than a month before al-Ghamdi first arrived in the United States, according to the FBI and the 9/11 Commission

First arrived" in the United States in April 2001? I thought he had been living in the US since 1999. And was living in Florida in 1997? 

August 1-2, 2001: Hijackers Illegally Purchase Virginia Identity Cards

Hijackers Hani Hanjour and Khalid Almihdhar meet Luis Martinez-Flores, an illegal immigrant from El Salvador, in a 7-Eleven parking lot in Falls Church, Virginia. Martinez-Flores is paid $100 cash to accompany the two to a local Department of Motor Vehicles office and sign forms attesting to their permanent residence in Virginia. Given new state identity cards, the cards are used the next day to get Virginia identity cards for several (five to seven) additional hijackers, including Abdulaziz Alomari, Ahmed Alghamdi, Majed Moqed, and Salem Alhazmi. [Arizona Daily Star, 9/28/01; Wall Street Journal, 10/16/01; Washington Post, 9/30/01] 

Why would he need all these fake ID's if he had been living in the US since 1997 and in 1999? How did he see his parents in 2000 if he was reportedly in the US? And if he flew back and forth(which is not explained or mentioned) then how did he do it with no ID. He supposedly got ID in March and/or August. 
On May 2 (2001), al-Ghamdi arrived in the U.S. with fellow-hijacker Moqed, on a student visa. Oddly, he listed the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida as his permanent address on his driver's license. He and Moqed moved in with Hani Hanjour and Nawaf al-Hazmi in Falls Church, Virginia. All four later moved into an apartment in Paterson, New Jersey.

So now we have him officially arriving in the US on May 2nd 2001...

-On a Student Visa

-"Oddly" his permanent address on his driver's license is as listed the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Florida

-He and Moqed moved in with Hani Hanjour and Nawaf al-Hazmi in Falls Church, Virginia.

-All four later moved into an apartment in Paterson, New Jersey

No mention of a rented house in Vienna, VA. No Mention of Florida in 1997.

Mansoor Ali

17th March 2006, 04:38 AM

Investigating the alleged hijackers

Part Eight

From another 9/11 researcher :

This will is an English translation of Mohamed Atta's arabic written one. To me, personally, I found oddities and as a result, further exemplifies that this manuscript of Mohamad's will has been manipulated and is sheer fabrication. Interestingly as well, the Arabic will is withheld by the FBI from the public. 

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/atta_will1.gif

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/merc_mercy_/113_atta_usvisa.jpg

Now it states:

When I die, I want the people who will inherit my possessions to do the following:

1. The people who prepare my body should be muslims because this will remind me of god and his forgiveness.(skipping down to #9):

9. The person who will wash my body near my genitals must wear gloves on his hand so he won't touch my genitals.

So by Islamic standards, what is in the will falls within the bounds of Islamic law. 

Also a martyr in Islam (as it has been stated that they believed they were future martyrs by the media) needs no washing of their body. Washing of the body is termed as 'Ghusul' in 'Arabic. When ever a muslim dies, be a female or male, they will have their body washed before burial usually by family members or muslims in the locality. So why is the washing of body mentioned (FBI has failed in its weak understanding of Islamic Jurisprudence)? If Atta was going to die, why would he want to be washed? Is Mohamad incompetent of Islamic law, or is the people who fabricated this will? Further he wants people to attend his funeral according to this 'will'? This is so absurd. Didn't he know that he would have his whole body vaporized and burnt and there will be no DNA or corpse to be available for a possible funeral? 

So it has been proved that*******this will was fabricated.