For Abuz Zubair

[Anonymous]

I don't have a account for this forum, thats why I posted this here. </p>

I been reading a lot of your posts, and find that many times you seem to attack Umar Bakri often. I want to know why you seem to have so much personal hatred for him? A student of his told me that the reason you have so much hatred for him*******is mainly due to the reason you and Umar Bakri had some discussion in a Masjid in the 90's, when Umar Bakri was still Ash'ari and he refuted you. That left you feeling humilated and ever since then you have been fuelled with a personal grudge against him. Is there any truth in this and what is the actual reason for you singling him out all the time? </p>

[Abuz Zubair]

As-Salaamu ‘Alaikum,</p>

A student of his told me that the reason you have so much hatred for him is mainly due to the reason you and Umar Bakri had some discussion in a Masjid in the 90's, when Umar Bakri was still Ash'ari and he refuted you. That left you feeling humilated and ever since then you have been fuelled with a personal grudge against him </p>

Yes! I remember when I had the chance to meet him personally in the late 90s in Balham Library. Back then he was an Ash’ari.</p>

What happened was that towards the end of his lecture during the questions and answers session he was asked a question about the Shia and the Khumaini and he responded with much praise for the Shia as well as Khumaini.</p>

I was amongst the audience, so I challenged him on the spot saying: ‘How can you praise Khumaini the way you did, knowing that he is the leader of Rafidah who makes Takfeer of Abu Bakr and Umar etc?’.</p>

To which he replied by saying that the Shias are not Kuffar. Things that people attribute to them, such as alteration of the Quran etc are all false, and making Takfeer of the Sahabah does not invalidate a person’s Iman – these were his words. I then stopped him and requested him to repeat what he said, knowing that everything is being video and audio recorded. So I said: ‘Can you please repeat that a person who makes Takfeer of Abu Bakr and Umar is not a Kafir?’ To this he replied back: ‘Of course he is not a Kafir! What do Abu Bakr and Umar have to do with Iman in Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, etc…?!’</p>

This is all recorded by al-Muhajirun, and I requested them to give me this tape several times but my requests were continuously ignored for obvious reasons.</p>

After that, I had the chance to speak to him again, outside Balham library as he was coming out. I brought up the same issue, and this time he decided to change the story by saying: ‘No, the Ja’faris do not make Takfir on the Sahabah at all’. I said to him: Well, Imam al-Shahrastani says in his al-Milal wa al-Nihal that the Imamis (amongst them the Ithna ‘Ashariyah and the Ja’faris) make Takfeer of the senior companions.</p>

He said in replied: ‘No! I teach my students al-Milal wa al-Nihal! He never said anything like that!’ Obviously, since we didn’t have the book at hand, he found it very convenient to lie in front of his Paki supporters, who do not have a clue as to who or what on earth al-Shahrastani is!</p>

He then says to me: Which Madhab do you follow?</p>

I said: I try to follow the Hanbali Madhab.</p>

He said: So what book do you refer to for Hanbali Madhab.</p>

I said: al-‘Uddah Sharh al-‘Umdah</p>

He said: That’s not a Hanbali book!! (what an idiot!) The Hanbali book is al-Mughni by Ibn Qudamah!</p>

(As usual, his ignorant followers thought: Yeah! Sh Omar humiliated him man! Lol These masaakeen do not know that al-‘Uddah is the explanation of al-‘Umdah, a Hanbali Fiqh manual by the very Ibn Qudama)</p>

He then said to me: Go back to al-Mughni, and in there he says that you can pray behind a Ja’fari – these were his exact words.</p>

This is how Omar got away that day by lying in front of his followers to save himself from humiliation.</p>

As for Ibn Qudama and the Ja’faris; well, Ibn Qudama (and the scholars of his era and after him) never refered to the Shias as Ja’faris. They mostly referred to them as the Rafidha, and now and then as Ithna ‘Ashariyah. Whatever the case, I referred back to Ibn Qudama and there a found stated in explicit terms, that if one prays behind a Rafidhi, he must repeat his prayer. In fact, it clearly states that one may not pray behind any innovator calling to his heresy, so leave the Shi’as aside, even Bakri I cannot pray behind according to Ibn Qudamah.</p>

I then had another opportunity to speak to him. I told him that I referred back to the sources he mentioned and what I found was quite contrary to what he claimed.</p>

He then said to me in anger: OK! So am I a liar now?!</p>

He then said to me (trying to figure out where I am coming from): ‘Do you have any scholar other than the usual Saudi scholars?!’</p>

I said: Well, yes! Sh ‘Abdullah Azzam is one of them.</p>

He said: That man?! He is not a scholar!</p>

This is my personal account with him where I found him to be a professional liar.</p>

As for why I call him a con-artist? Well, he has certainly taken the act of lying as a profession.</p>

Years ago he gave a lecture at Imperial College. There he was asked about the Hadeeth of the slave-girl who was asked: Where is Allah? And She replied: In the heavens. He commented on this Hadeeth saying: When the girl said what she said: The companions ran to beat her up! Upon being asked where this Hadeeth is, he said in some book published in Lebanon.</p>

At the back of his book ‘Essential Fiqh’, he states that he studied in Umm al-Qura and Madina University, whereas during his stay in Saudi, he was merely an employ of an electricity company.</p>

During the Yemeni crisis, when Abu Hamzah was emphasising that the brothers only went to Yemen to learn Arabic, Omar Bakri was being interviewed all across the media saying: ‘We send thousands and thousands of youth to get trained abroad, as we also have many training centres in the UK, etc etc’. Pack of lies, and he knows it well. His own Muslim barrister (who defended him at many occasions), admitted to me that Omar Bakri lies in all these claims.</p>

I noticed him and some of his followers many times claiming to have contacts with the Mujahideen all around the world. Again, lies and more lies to seek controversy and radicalise his image, whereas in reality, he is nothing but a pot belly sit-back with no known record in Jihad, at anytime and any place in the world.</p>

This is why Azzam Publications made a press-release singling him out by exposing him as a liar and a con-artist. Azzam Publications is one news agency that has been in touch with the Mujahideen way before 9/11, and this is accepted and acknowledged by all, Muslims and non-Muslims alike. A damning statement like that from Azzam was just the final nail in the coffin of this con-artist.</p>

Azzam do not attack Abu Qatada, or Abu Hamzah or any such figure, which are, irrespective of their controversy, still genuine with a checkable history, contrary to Bakri who is Majhool (unknown) to say the least. Likewise, Abu Qatada, Abu Hamzah, and others are in prison or under control orders, contrary to Bakri who to this day remains a free man. Under the new extradition treaty, it has become a lot easier for the British gov to ship to the US whoever they like, and indeed they are doing that very well. Bakri, however, remains free.</p>

May be the Home Secretary does not want him extradited. Bakri is just the pot-belly clown they need to maintain the fear atmosphere to justify the need for even worse anti-terror legislation.</p>

wasalam</p>

[omar]

Assalamualikum,</p>

Jazakullah khair brother Abu Zubair for that post.</p>

[Abu_Tashfeen]

i reallllly would like to know how OBM or any of his followers would respond to this. i actually am not to bothered about OBMs followers to much as when they they speak OBM can jus deny what they say. pls any of OBMs students... take this to him and ask him for his comments.</p>

barrakallaahu feek ya abu zubayr for an interesting post</p>

[Abu_Tashfeen]

OBM just called Abu Zubayr a child.... on paltalk.</p>

[Abu_Tashfeen]

he said abu zubayr is a liar. and he said abu zubayr is upset because OBM wouldnt give a recommendation for a sensitive matter i wont discuss in public. abu zubayr can email me. but OBM dared to reveal in a room on paltalk with 50 ppl.

[Abu_Tashfeen]

<div>Bismillaahir rahmaanir raheem

Alhamdulillaahi rabbil 3alameen.

OBM on paltalk with all and his talbees and tadlees tried to but a smear on my name.

For the record...

It doesnt matter to me if I have a smear on my name or not, because all that matters to me is if Allaah Loves me and Will Forgive me.

I will though clear my name inshaa' Allaah.

OBM the liar was asked on paltalk if*******Abu Zubayr*******accused him of being a liar and it was proved he was a liar... should ppl take from him?

he started attacking me straight away. and called me a taqleedi of Abu Zubayr.

I then asked him directly... Did you or did u not study at ummul quraa?

He then had me red dotted straight after, and for the rest of the time refused to allow me to speak.

He then started attacking me saying i was a majhool.

I then got it to be posted on the screen my name and who i sat with... and included in who i sat with as shaykh abu baseer at tartoosie.

Let it be known that I have sat with shaykh abu baseer on 10 or more occasions. Abu Baseer offered to take me on as a student and i did not take up the offer. He has written things for me and he has been to my house and drank my wifes tea and sat with me cussing me on how i had to make my house into a library. I call abu baseer whenever i want and ask what i want all the time.

OBM then then called Abu Baseer.. he said he will ask Abu Baseer who May We Achieve was... (now that was dumb to say the least... especially when ppl were telling him my kunya as shaykh Abu Baseer knows it.)

Without waiting he told Abu Baseer that May We Achieve was cussing the ulamaa and calling ulamaa liars. Abu Baseer after getting this description immediatley said he wouldnt know anyone like this. OBM then LIED and said i claimed i got an ijaaza of him that I learnt some book of him. The whole convo is saved and anyone who wishes can see for themselves that i never said this. OBM then went into pity mode and said i called him a liar... which he is... because never once have i ever called him a liar in any of what i said.... and the convo is saved for those who want to see it.

Once Abu Baseer heard this he started saying that even if i knew such a person as this he would not associate with them.

OBM then lied and said i come to the room alot and said that i always cuss ppl. He said i come to the room all the time and make fitnah. Haq against Baatil and Abu Shauket will be my witnesses inshaa' Allaah that this is a lie. Even though they take from him and consider him to be a shaykh, i do believe of them to fear Allaah first and foremost. Wallaahi before today i would warn ppl not to speak about OBM without proof and research. And they r my witnesses inshaa' Allaah that this was my behaviour.

This is a lie.

then afterwards Abu Baseer had a negative impression.

finally after brothers told OBM to tell Abu Baseer that he had written a fatwa for me by his hand Abu Baseer remembered my name and PRONOUNCED it properly (unlike OBM refusing to do so before).

when Abu Baseer heard my name pronounced properly, he then said he knows me but he never gave me ijaaza and that he HAD written for me a fatwa on voting, and that I have sat in two (it was more) of his circles and that i dont not understand him when he speaks arabic and he doesnt undertsand me. this is because i spoke moroccon arabic, when i first met the shaykh TWO years ago. My arabic is now fluent walhamdulillaah.

then after lieing about me OBM told the truth...

OBM said that I got ijaaza from him.... AFTER he dirtied my name he told shaykh abu baseer that he asked me which alim knows me and that i said abu baseer knows me. abu baseer confirmed he knew me...

but all this was after he lied about me claiming i was calling scholars liars and cussing him behind his back. and truely the brothers who follow him know me that before this night i never called him a liar or cussed him. but this night he has been exposed to be one and he has lied to besmirch my name and so i must stand and speak out.

So OBM then put the phone down and after dirtying my name with Abu Baseer turned around and told the class a cut up translation on the convo he had based on the lies he told abu baseer.

i immediately called the shaykh from wer i am currently residing and told him the situation. the shaykh was extremely surprised to hear my side of the story. i told him that it was all recorded. He then asked me to send him the recording. This is being arranged. He then said to me after i requested he correct all the lies OBM said he said to me ..... 'abshir abshir...'

I truely say tonight and do not hold back to state that OBM is a liar and that people should not take from him.

May Allaah guide him or break his back.

aameeeen

Wa alaykum assalaam</div>

[Abuz Zubair]

As-Salaamu ‘Alaikum</p>

i actually am not to bothered about OBMs followers to much as when they they speak OBM can jus deny what they say</p>

Exactly! That is the problem with infatuation bro. Here is a history of OBM’s false claims, recorded by various media outlets as well as his very own al-Muhajirun leaflets and lectures, and then you have a complete denial of any of these things ever being claimed!</p>

To give you some examples, I came across an interview with OBM in which he says:</p>

Q: Okay, I want to move on now and address some of your recent activities. You told the Birmingham Sunday Mercury in December 2000 that Muhajiroun recruits people for Jihad in places like Afghanistan, Chechnya and Kashmir. Did you have the organization in place to recruit and direct these people to those theatres of conflict?</p>

A: That is not true. I never recruited people to go abroad and fight against anyone. However, people used to come to us if they wanted to join Jihads abroad but soon discovered that we are merely Jihad sympathisers. Anyway, legally speaking, all our activities were permissible during that period. We did not breach any laws as we were helping suffering people overseas.</p>

So how about your comments that were reported in Birmingham Sunday Mercury?! What about the daily Telegraph? The Evening Standard? What happened to all your comments as quoted verbatim about you sending thousands and thousands abroad for military training?</p>

Read on!</p>

Q: Were you involved in sending young men to theatres of conflict?</p>

A: No, I was not. I used to encourage people to go to Bosnia to help their Muslim brothers and sisters, when the law in the UK permitted that type of intervention. But when the law forbade it, we stopped these activities altogether.</p>

What a liar. Through out his membership with HT, he in fact discouraged people from going to Jihad, so much so that many of HT members considered it a sin to go to Jihad in the absence of Khilafa. Plus, Bosnian Jihad ended by the end of 1995, and he left the Hizb in 1997! When did he encourage ANYONE from the Hizb to go? Never![/quote]</p>

Read on…</p>

Q: To which law are you referring here?</p>

A: The new law against terrorism.</p>

Q: The one introduced straight after September 11, 2001?</p>

A: Yes.</p>

Oh, so what about those al-Muhajirun guys in Pak post 9/11 who claimed that all the British Shuhada were actually al-Muhajirun (lying as usual)? Didn’t this lead an MP to call for these idiots be charged with treason? Have we forgotten it all?</p>

Q: To which location did you direct most of the young men who came to your organization?</p>

A: We used to help mostly in Bosnia and Kosovo as part of a broader humanitarian effort.</p>

I don’t know who is a bigger liar, Blair or Bakri! There was no al-Muhajirun or HT presence EVER in Bosnia or Kosovo, NOT for Jihad, NOT for humanitarian work.</p>

As for Jihad, then it is enough to note that Azzam Publication did an intensive coverage of the Bosnian Jihad (and thus, the martyrs of Bosnia etc etc), and then insisted after 9/11 that these loonies have no part to play in any Jihad around the world.</p>

As for humanitarian work, then all the charities that have ever worked in these areas are either Christian charities, or Muslim Brotherhood charities. Ask any Christian or Muslim Brotherhood charity to have worked overseas, did OBM or his cult ever play any role in relief work? The answer would be a big NO!</p>

Read on!</p>

Q: In another interview with Milan’s Il Giornale you said that the ‘International Islamic Front’ (IIF) is the political wing of Osama Bin Laden’s ‘International Islamic Front for Jihad Against the Jews and the Crusaders’. What were the implications of this statement?</p>

A: Another fabrication and distortion from the media! I did set up the IIF in August 1990 as a political platform to oppose the stationing of American forces in the Gulf and Saudi Arabia. This was designed to act as a broad umbrella for a range of UK-based organizations.</p>

No, you are the only fabricator here Mr. OBM! These are your words, I heard you claim that on Newsnight!</p>

Q: Therefore there are no connections to the ‘International Islamic Front for Jihad Against the Jews and the Crusaders set up by Bin Laden in 1998?</p>

A: Of course not. But certain people exploited this coincidence. They tried to portray us [as] the political wing of Bin Laden’s military structure and this used to make me laugh. I wish we had a connection, as there is no shame in being linked to Sheikh Osama Bin Laden.</p>

Really? But then why claim to be an old friend of Bin Ladin and claim to have a list of next targets faxed to you by Bin Ladin himself, on the Newsnight program right after the Tanzian and Dar al-Salam bombings? Liar…</p>

Q: Going back to your activities now, was Bin Laden really scheduled to send a video cassette to the rally for Islamic Revival in September 1996?</p>

A: In 1996, a letter from Bin Laden was published in the Independent and the Quds al-Arabi, and we simply made a copy of it and said we were going to read it in public. The media simply sensationalized this. In the same vein there was to be no tape from Sheikh Omar Abd al-Rahman.</p>

No! It had nothing to do with the media. I saw with my own two eyes the huge red A4 leaflets plastered all over the walls saying that Bin Ladin sends a recorded video message for your rally in particular, as well as Sh Omar Abd al-Rahman! This is when I began to realise that OBM is in fact a liar and a controversy seeker! Mind you, this is when OBM was still an Ash’ari! This is why it shocked us all, because it is simply unreal for these Mojo loonies to a) get in touch with b Ladin and O A. Rahman, and b) for them to have agreed to cooperate with this Jahmi. But we knew, that this is just one of his tricks to pull the largest paki crowd possible (but he failed, because not many ppl turned up! Lol)</p>

Q: But where do the media get all these sensational stories?</p>

A: You know very well that the media loves to sensationalize these things.</p>

No! The truth is that you guys are simply mediaholics. They love you as much as you love them.</p>

He is asked about the 9/11 hijackers:</p>

Q: Were their actions Islamic?</p>

A: The Prophet Muhammad once said to the enemy: I have come to terrorize you; he said: “O, people of Qureish I have come to slaughter you’; in another quote he said: ‘I am the Prophet who kills while laughing’.</p>

Oh, Where did the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam say that: I am the Prophet who kills while laughing? Or is it one of your fabrications? Like the fabrication about the slave girl who said that Allah is in the heavens, and the Sahabah ran to beat her up?!</p>

More importantly, what is the Islamic ruling on the one who lies upon the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam?</p>

Firstly, the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam – said in a famous, authentic and Mutawatir Hadeeth: Whoever intentionally lies upon me then let him take his seat in the fire of Hell!</p>

Secondly, the scholars have agreed that the one guilty of lying upon the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alahi wa-sallam – is a Fasiq of the highest degree. They do, however, differ whether such a person is a Kafir or not.</p>

Thirdly, his statements with respect to anything cannot be accepted, even if they are true. Therefore, his testimony in an Islamic court is not accepted at all.</p>

Fourthly, even if a person sincerely repents from lying upon the Prophet – SalAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam, then according to the correct opinion, which is also the opinion of Ahmad, Ibn al-Zubair al-Humaidi (Bukhari’s teacher) and Ibn Salah, his repentance is not accepted.</p>

Fifthly, there have been many incidents through Islamic history where such liars were declared to be Zanadiqa by the state and executed.</p>

Hence, the least we can say about OBM is that he is a Fasiq due to his habitual lying, and from that, lying upon the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam.</p>

Abu Tashfeen, JazakumAllahu Khairan for your input!</p>

OBM just called Abu Zubayr a child.... on paltalk</p>

Lol…</p>

he said abu zubayr is a liar. and he said abu zubayr is upset because OBM wouldnt give a recommendation for a sensitive matter i wont discuss in public. abu zubayr can email me. but OBM dared to reveal in a room on paltalk with 50 ppl.</p>

Hahahahaha…</p>

Man this is hilarious! I still cannot stop laughing, this man is a clown!</p>

BTW, I remember after 9/11, one of his followers informs me that OBM once rung him up on him mobile… to tell him that…. He’s gone underground?!?! Lol</p>

He is such a joke! </p>

he started attacking me straight away. and called me a taqleedi of Abu Zubayr</p>

Alhamdulillah! At least he recognises me as a Mujtahid! Lol</p>

May Allah reward you for sharing your experience with us, althought, you are not the first nor the last person to experience this.</p>

Now, honestly ask yourself this question.</p>

The people of real knowledge you have spoken to, do they behave like this? Or is it that real knowledge shapes their character with patience, good manners, wisdom and perseverance? These are some of the very important qualities with which a genuine truth seeker can distinguish a genuine scholar from a fake one.</p>

Secondly, do remember that OBM has no credit over any of his followers except that he feigns knowledge. Since he has no knowledge or Fiqh in Allah’s religion, the only way he can overcome his opponent is by behaving in the fashion he did. That is by launching a psychological attack on his opponent until he is subdued. Usually, his opponents are much younger and have more respect for him, than he has for them, since they see him as someone knowledgeable, and worth debating with. He therefore, uses this for his own advantage and murders his young opponent.</p>

What I have learnt by debating with Bakri and the similar ignorant ones, (like I learnt with Salafi Publications years back), is that you give them a taste of their own medicine. You be twice as rude as they are, pound on them right left and centre, and trust me, they will get a shock of their life! Try it next time you speak to OBM! (and hence the reason for my ‘attitude’ on this forum with some brothers. Come on! I was a lot more polite in my response to Tariq Ramadan, so gimme some credit!)</p>

wasalam</p>

[sonofadam1975]

'Oh, Where did the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam say that: I am the Prophet who kills while laughing? Or is it one of your fabrications? '</p>

Well Abuz Zubayr it might be a bit hard for you to accept it - since it opposes your democracy MI5*******manhaj and the slandering of the beloved Mujahideen in the peninsula...but here goes...you can try anyway....</p>

<font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Ibn Taymiyyah, Siyaasah Shariah, Vol.1, P18, - quotes the battle of zaat ul-Salaasil where the Messenger of Allah (saw) said; annal*******<font color="#fb8080">dahooq</font> al-Qattaal (I am the one who smiles when he kills). <span class="highlight"><font color="#fb8080">Dahooq</font></span> is the one who smiles and al-Qattaal is the one who kills a lot.



<font color="#000000">Ibn Kathir, Al-Bidaayah wal Nihaayah, Vol.3, P199, Ali bin Ibrahim al-Hashim when the jews of Banu Qurayza and Banu Nadheer came to the Messenger of Allah (saw) and said what are you calling for? The Messenger of Allah (saw) replied laailaaha illallah muhamadan rasoolallah and that which has been revealed about me in your Torah and what your scholars have informed you about me, that I will come from Makkah, a free man, I will leave polytheism, alcohol, I will leave the businesses…that I will be the seal of the prophets, I will put the sword into the sheath and the chest, I will not fear anybody and I will smile when I kill and that wherever there is any sign of human or animal footsteps (i.e. life) my sultan (authority) will reach there. </font></font></font>

<font face="Times New Roman"><font size="3"><font color="#000000">This is also reported in Dalaail Nabuwwah, Vol2, P508 by Imam Bayhaqi.</font></font></font>





<font color="#000000"><font face="Times New Roman"><font size="3">Surah Muhammad is also called Surah al-Dahooq al-Qataal and Surah al-Qitaal as stated in Tafseer Ibn Kathir where he spoke about the attribute of the Messenger of Allah (saw) being declared to the people in the naming of this surah. </font></font></font>





<font color="#000000"><font face="Times New Roman"><font size="3">Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmooa al-Fataawa, Vol.28, in the tafseer of verse 29 in chapter Fath quotes the tafseer of Dahaaq (tabi’) where the Messenger of Allah (saw) said; I am al-dahooq al-qattaal and this is for being Shidda’ (harsh) towards the kuffar (as the ayah states). </font></font></font>
</p>

Taken from article titled 'The Prophet Of Terror'.</p>

[Abuz Zubair]

Ibn Taymiyyah, Siyaasah Shariah, Vol.1, P18, - quotes the battle of zaat ul-Salaasil where the Messenger of Allah (saw) said; annal dahooq al-Qattaal (I am the one who smiles when he kills). Dahooq is the one who smiles and al-Qattaal is the one who kills a lot.</p>

You miskeen ‘sonofadam’, al-Siyasah al-Shariah by Ibn Taymiyah is no more than 82 pages contained within the 28^th vol of Majmu’ al-Fatawa, which you quote separately at the bottom of your appalling cut-and-paste job! From where did you get Vol.1 page 18?! How many volumes is your copy of al-Siyasah al-Shariah (if you have one)?! Show us some originality in your posts, instead of copying and pasting from a lying student of a lying teacher (OBM)!</p>

Secondly, the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam – is reported to have said:</p><p dir="rtl">أنا الضحوك القتال </p><p dir="rtl" />

Meaning: I am the Cheerful, and the Slayer. </p>

Ibn Katheer says explaining this narration (during Tafseer of Surah al-Maida): </p><p dir="rtl">فهو ضحوك لأوليائه قتال لأعدائه </p>

Meaning: The Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wasallam – is cheerful towards his allies and a slayer towards his enemies.</p>

Ibn al-Jawzi quotes Ibn Faris in Sifat al-Safwah (1/56), explaining the name of the Prophet, al-Dhahook:</p><p dir="rtl">قال ابن فارس وإنما قيل له الضحوك لأنه كان طيب النفس فكها وقال إني لأمزح </p><p dir="rtl" />

Meaning: Ibn Faris said: The Prophet was called al-Dhahook because he was a cheerful and jolly person. He once said: Indeed, I joke! </p>

So, poor miskeen, where is the supposed narration: ‘I am the one who smiles when he kills’?!?!</p>

Thirdly, even this narration (‘I am the Cheerful, and the Slayer’) I still haven’t been able to trace it back to the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam, let alone determine it’s authenticity. It would help to mention the narrator of the Hadeeth or who collected it in which collection. I am going to check up in Dalail al-Nubuwa, InshaaAllah. But whatever the case, where is the Hadeeth that: ‘I kill while laughing’, O liar on the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam?</p>

I did not find in al-Bidaya wal-Nihaya what you quoted from Ibn Katheer. Please scan the page where you saw this written (to prove that it actually exists in Ibn Katheer)</p>

Surah Muhammad is also called Surah al-Dahooq al-Qataal and Surah al-Qitaal as stated in Tafseer Ibn Kathir where he spoke about the attribute of the Messenger of Allah (saw) being declared to the people in the naming of this surah.</p>

It does NOT state anywhere in Tafseer Ibn Katheer that Surah Muhammad is called Surah al-Dhahook al-Qattaal. Again, please scan the page for us to prove your truthfulness.</p>

Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmooa al-Fataawa, Vol.28, in the tafseer of verse 29 in chapter Fath quotes the tafseer of Dahaaq (tabi’) where the Messenger of Allah (saw) said; I am al-dahooq al-qattaal and this is for being Shidda’ (harsh) towards the kuffar (as the ayah states). </p>

Dear miskeen, what you quote here is exactly what you quoted right at the beginning of your post. Moreover, Ibn Taymiyah is not even quoting the Tafseer of al-Dhahaak with reference to Fath 29! He is merely trying to make a point that the leader should be balanced in all his affairs, by giving example of the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wa-sallam being the Prophet of mercy, as well as the Prophet of slaughter; or as he says about himself: I am the cheerful and the slayer, or as Allah speaks of this Ummah: Harsh against the Kuffar, while merciful amongst themselves!</p>

Do us all a favour and learn Arabic, before you even think about doing such a terrible job of copying and pasting.</p>

So the conclusion is: OBM lied upon the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wasallam – by attributing to him the statement: I am the one who kills while laughing/smiling.</p>

You are just a miskeen muqallid in his Fisq and Fujur.</p>

wasalam</p>

[abootalha]

AssalamuAlikum Warhmatullahi Wabrakathu,

At first i thought i would not reply but now it seems important. First of all i love Abu Zubair for the sake of Allah(i havent met him, but know the site since abuzubair.com) and OBM repreresents a person who misguides people and causes harm. Thus i thought it would be necessary to put some stuff upfront.

1. He represents a CULT, One day he is Ashari Shafiee and then suddenly all of his followers are salafee/wahabi Hanbali... I mean how can everybody wholesale make a change. Cults operate on a personality and what ever a leader does the Muqtadi does.

2. Known liars, one guy came and told me Ibn Othaimeen has Irjaa(His definition was a one liner, regarding rulers), and then i asked their bigwig and he said we dont say that, we consider Ibn Othaimeen an Allamah. and now i hear they make Takfeer of Ibn Baaz( What would they call Hasan al Basri who didnt do takfeer of Hajaj and what would they call saeed ibn Jubayr, i mean with their logic one should be a Murjiah, but these Salaf didnt stoop to that level. These fools dont understand the difference between Usool and applying the usool itself)

3. Rehtoric, they talk a lot and cause problems for Muslims who are trying to maintain or practice their religion. I wonder if they understand (Adarul Mafasad awla min jalbil masalah.) Because of thier nonesense and hyper sisters with colorful niqabs they make everybody look like gooons.

4. Allmost all the muqtadis of OBM whether in UK, US are Pakis or Indians. The reason being most of these kids are fresh out of Highschool and they have no foundation and they think they are following the Sunnah and doing something. And esp if the leader speaks some Arabic booom he is an Allamah. And with the mentatlity they are brought up, they think their are no ulema from Hind(indo pak), little these fools know of the Ahlul Hadeeth of Indo Pak.

5. Thus OBM preys on them, because he shows them or gives them a sense of power that they are doing something and others are literally Munafiqs.

It is upon us who try to follow the sunnah, the salafee way to once again start calling to Allah and his Messanger(Peace be upon him) with hikmah.

[abuyusuf]

assalaamu alaikum wr wb,</p>

Ibn Al-Qayyim In Zaadul Ma'ad, vol 1(english version -Ilm publications), says: As for the prophet's names 'Adh-dha'huk, al-Qattal, They are joined together because they are connected in meaning: the prophet smiled in the face of the believers and was neither angry, grim, frowning, nor harsh with them. He was qattal, meaning, he fights Allah's enemies and when doing so, no blame discourages him [since he does it by the order of Allah and in Allahs cause]</p>

[Abuz Zubair]

As-Salaamu ‘Alaikum,</p>

You will find an interesting discussion around the authenticity of the Hadeeth: Ana al-Dahhook al-Qattaal (I am the Cheerful and the Slayer). In short, the Hadeeth is weak, but nevertheless, the meaning is correct and confirms to the Prophet – SallAllahu ‘alaihi wasallam being, Nabi al-Rahmah and Nabi al-Malhama (the Prophet of mercy and slaughter).</p>

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=12210 (http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12210)</p>

We still await the ‘Hadeeth’: I kill while laughing…</p>

wasalam
</p>

[Aabidah]

salam brothers.....</p>

i am inviting those who believe that sheikh Omar Bakri is a liar and a clown on behalf of the sheikhs followers from the savioursect! the brothers hav asked me to invite you all to our forums at www.thesavioursect.com/forum (http://www.thesavioursect.com/forum) </p>

i ask on behalf of the brothers to come to the forums and the matter will be discussed insha-allah!!</p>

Abuz zubair... soon as you were the one who spoke to hte sheikh you are most wanted!!******* the borthers have agreed to ahave a disgusion, but on the count of no backbiting, swearing, slandering and to talk with ilam!!</p>

insha-allah the brothers from the savioursect will discuss any of your questions!! remember, this is not an invitation to a debate, but to a discussion!!</p>

insha-allahwe shall all await for you allto come!!plz 4 you cum, can you plz address yourselves to who you are, and that you are from islamic awakening!!</p>

Jazakillahu khair</p>

wassalam!</p>

[Abuz Zubair]

erm... the debate has already started... I am the one to initiate attacks on OBM, and quite proudly indeed.</p>

Questions have already been posed on this very thread. If the cult followers cannot answer something as simple as what's been presented here, what is there left for a debate?</p>

Why should I waste my time debating with the followers, when I have already debated with the cult leader and found him to be a liar, full of hot air and pot belly? Why?</p>

And what's up with so many exclamation marks?</p>

The problem with the brothers at the so-called saviour sect (or rather, the misguided sect), is that they cannot see beyond Bakri. They have to overcome their infatuation with OBM, who - at the end of the day - is a nobody.</p>

All I can say to these brothers, in light of the facts we have already presented in this thread: just get over OBM... That's all...</p>

wasalam</p>

[Abu Muwahhid]

Originally Posted by Abuz Zubair</p>

erm... the debate has already started... I am the one to initiate attacks on OBM, and quite proudly indeed.</p>

Questions have already been posed on this very thread. If the cult followers cannot answer something as simple as what's been presented here, what is there left for a debate?</p>

Why should I waste my time debating with the followers, when I have already debated with the cult leader and found him to be a liar, full of hot air and pot belly? Why?</p>

And what's up with so many exclamation marks?</p>

The problem with the brothers at the so-called saviour sect (or rather, the misguided sect), is that they cannot see beyond Bakri. They have to overcome their infatuation with OBM, who - at the end of the day - is a nobody.</p>

All I can say to these brothers, in light of the facts we have already presented in this thread: just get over OBM... That's all...</p>

wasalam</p>

</p>



As-Salaamu 'Alaikum to the believers who reject Taaghout,</p>

I was quite shocked to see an 'Islamic' website mocking, insulting, backbiting and slandering a Muslim such as Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad (may Allah protect and preserve him).</p>

Abu Zubair, you really must learn to have more adab than this. This is not the akhlaaq and sulook of the messenger Muhammad (saw) and his companions.

I understand why you do not want to dare come to our forum after reading your post. It is because you will not be able to backbite, slander and divert the topic by making personal attacks instead of discussing with islamic ettiquettes and manners.</p>

May Allah (swt) guide you and us...Aameen</p>

Salaam</p>

(You are still welcome, if you are people of Haq... www.thesavioursect.com/forum (http://www.thesavioursect.com/forum))</p>

[Abuz Zubair]

Nothing could be more ironic than an OBM follower lecturing others about Adab, backbiting and slandering, all the while calling us and the scholars of Jihad Mushrikun.</p>

Just cut to the chase, and respond to the allegations we have levelled against you and your Sheikh for the last 5 years, openly on various public platforms.</p>

Frankly, for me to approach OBM himself after having previously spoken to him is giving him too much credit, so how about going to your forums? There is nothing preventing you from responding to the allegations here. We haven’t deleted your posts (so long it’s not 50% exclamation marks), nor have we deleted your accounts. So what’s preventing you from responding?</p>

So, if you have something valuable to contribute to the thread, then please do, otherwise, you have successfully convinced everyone that you simply have nothing to respond with.</p>

[Abu Muwahhid]

Salaam brother,</p>

You sound very firmiliar. </p>

I always thought people from Tibyan have a Madkhali background.</p>

Anyway, just some advice inshallah...it is Sunnah to reply to the Salaam, in fact it is the haq of a Muslim.</p>

Anyway, like I said brother, come onto OUR forum and we will deal with*******ANY question you want to ask us. I can easily deal with your allegations, but like I said, you want to stay here so that you can mock and backbite.</p>

In Islam, seeking knowledge is obligatory. likewise verifying. You do not ask the person who is accused to come to you...YOU ARE SUPPOSSED TO GO TO THEM!! You have got everything upside down. If you want to gain knowledge, YOU HAVE TO SEEK IT, it will not come to you.</p>

This is quite a simple and basic principle in Islam.</p>

Salaam</p>

[Abuz Zubair]

What a Jahil…</p>

You first declare us to be Mushrikun pagans, and then expect us to reply to your Salaams</p>

You then behave like idiots, and then lecture us about manners</p>

You then accuse us of being Tibyan, and then of being Madakhilah, yet we are neither</p>

You refuse to contribute positively to the thread and continue with your rants.</p>

I am not losing sleep over OBM that I should come to you – when I have already gone and spoken to the one accused himself, and alHamdulillah, I am not alone in this.</p>

If you are losing your sleep over it, then just get a life, bro… Don’t expect others to spoon feed you.</p>

Here are the allegations, now show us your response – I cannot make it any simpler. This, even the cattle in Wales can comprehend, which the OBM’s cattle cannot.</p>

[Abu Muwahhid]

Originally Posted by Abuz Zubair</p>

What a Jahil…</p>

You first declare us to be Mushrikun pagans, and then expect us to reply to your Salaams</p>

You then behave like idiots, and then lecture us about manners</p>

You then accuse us of being Tibyan, and then of being Madakhilah, yet we are neither</p>

You refuse to contribute positively to the thread and continue with your rants.</p>

I am not losing sleep over OBM that I should come to you – when I have already gone and spoken to the one accused himself, and alHamdulillah, I am not alone in this.</p>

If you are losing your sleep over it, then just get a life, bro… Don’t expect others to spoon feed you.</p>

Here are the allegations, now show us your response – I cannot make it any simpler. This, even the cattle in Wales can comprehend, which the OBM’s cattle cannot.</p>

</p>

Salaam again</p>

When did I call you people Mushrikoon?</p>

Secondly, it is better for you to admit your mistakes rather than ignoring them and changing the subject. Is it not the haq of a Muslim to reply to his salaam? Yes or no will suffice. (I know one way or another u will find a way of ignoring this question).</p>

I'm not losing any sleep over this :) Most likely the one who mentioned this is the one who is suffering from it.</p>

Anyway brother, I have not seen someone as rude as you for a very long time. Usually those secular british Mozlims speak like this as they have no 'ilm therefore all they do is call people names and insult them.</p>

If u have verified already, al-Hamdulillah, you have done your duty. May Allah reward you inshallah.</p>

There is nothing more to discuss.</p>

Salaam</p>

BTW. If I was you, I would direct some of that hatred you have for us Muslims towards the Kuffaar instead. </p>

&quot;Muhammad is the messenger of Allah and those who are with him are harsh with the Kuffaar and merciful among themselves.&quot;</p>

[al-gharib]

btw dont think savioursect forum is onlineanymore its aswj.net

[Skillganon]

SO his this OBM guy.

I amseriousely missing out which is suprising since I been living in UK for whole my life.

[WM]

abuz Zubair...'pot belly', come on, that's just a cheap shot. Shouldn't you apologise for that?

[Abuz Zubair]

Apologise to a clown?!

He can apologies to my boots!

[Skillganon]

SO his this OBM guy.

I amseriousely missing out which is suprising since I been living in UK for whole my life.

I meant to say "Who is this OBM guy?"

and the next part is "I am seriousely ........"

I just thought I clear that up incase someone read into it something I have not said. I don't know how that is possible but these day's little suprise me.

[Abuz Zubair]

Omar Bakri... the former Ameer of al-Muharrijun.

[Yasir]

I meant to say "Who is this OBM guy?"Skillganon, you're from London... Surely you must of heard of the guy starring in "Tottenham Ayatollah"?

[abumuwahid]

Apologise to a clown?!

He can apologies to my boots!

Omar Bakri... the former Ameer of al-Muharrijun.

Subhanallah! Is this the way Muslims behave! Shame on you Abu Zubair !!!

Speak good or remain silent !!!

[Skillganon]

I don't know.

What about lie and don't apologies ( and remain silent).

What about distort the truth and remain silent for 2 years?

I can see why bro Abuz Zubair is harsh with such a person, he(OBM) does not have a very good track record for speaking the truth it appears.

Maybe bro Abuz Zubair could choose better word to express his distaste of this person.

[abumuwahid]

I don't know.

What about lie and don't apologies ( and remain silent).

What about distort the truth and remain silent for 2 years?

I can see why bro Abuz Zubair is harsh with such a person, he(OBM) does not have a very good track record for speaking the truth it appears.

Maybe bro Abuz Zubair could choose better word to express his distaste of this person.

Well, yes. I am not defending Omar Bakri at all, but I am admonishing Abu Zubayr for insulting other Muslims.

[Skillganon]

Well, yes. I am not defending Omar Bakri at all, but I am admonishing Abu Zubayr for insulting other Muslims.

He was not insulting other muslims, he was expressing what he thinks of this OBM bro, .

i.e. A clown, who is apparently is a habitual liar and causing fitnah, or should a say is fitnah.

and you can say he insulted him I guess. I agree maybe he should choose some of his word more carefully.

He is only getting his due in return.

[Skillganon]

Skillganon, you're from London... Surely you must of heard of the guy starring in "Tottenham Ayatollah"?

Honestly bro....I have not met him or heard much about him. Was too busy with life than to follow such ilk.

Just starting knowing about this deen indepth. This is the first time I am hearing about him in this forum.

I don't really go down Tottenham. London is big...you will be suprised what goes around you don't hear off.

[abumuwahid]

He was not insulting other muslims, he was expressing what he thinks of this OBM bro, .

i.e. A clown, who is apparently is a habitual liar and causing fitnah, or should a say is fitnah.

and you can say he insulted him I guess.

He is only getting his due in return.

By any stretch of the imagination, calling somebody a clown or pot bellied is an insult. Unless of course that person actually works in a circus.

I have read Abu Zubayr's posts in this thread and it does seem that Umar Bakri has a case to answer, but to call him pot bellied and a clown. I think that is not the way a Muslim behaves, even with other Muslims who have wronged him or with whom he disagrees.

[Skillganon]

By any stretch of the imagination, calling somebody a clown or pot bellied is an insult. Unless of course that person actually works in a circus.

I have read Abu Zubayr's posts in this thread and it does seem that Umar Bakri has a case to answer, but to call him pot bellied and a clown. I think that is not the way a Muslim behaves, even with other Muslims who have wronged him or with whom he disagrees.

Well...him being pot bellied is not a lie....and a clown is an adept depiction of what he is.
He is taking people for a laugh with his little circus following him around.

Have you tried talking to OBM...asked him why did he lie and insulted bro Abuz Zubair and not to mention in openly in front of a big crowd Just to put him in shame and to show off and impress his circus (amongst other things)?

It does not take a muslim to know that such person, OBM, should not be followed or supported, excused and encouraged.

I guess you have to wait till Abuz Zubair answer as I am not speaking on behalf of him.

[Abuz Zubair]

AbuMuwahid...

[abumuwahid]

Abu Zubair

I say to you what the Messanger of Allah (saws) said:

“Among the words people received from early prophets are: if you feel no shame, then do as you wish.” (Related by Al-Bukhari, Abu Dawood, Ibn Majah, Ahmad and others).

[Abuz Zubair]

Thank you very much.

there is nothing to be ashamed of in calling spade a spade and pot and pot.

[MosDef]

Thats a good point actually.

The fella in question is actually overweight/obese and looks like he would struggle catching a bus let alone take part in Qitaal.

What sort of example is this?

Isnt it compulsory to stay in good shape, ready for any eventuality - in these days of fly ...

[Abuz Zubair]

Well... I wouldn't have said what I said about him if he were to keep his gob shut and be a normal Muslim. But it seems that guy doesn't have much respect for himself (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5202018.stm), either. He cannot really expect others to respect him, can he?

[Brother_Mujahid]

I don't like to get into attacking people because of their personal appearence, but `Umar Bakri is someone who seemed to enjoy the benefits of the British social welfare system a tad too much, wa Allah u'Alim.

[abu_ibrahim]

Umar Bakri has said some mashed up things in the past, but to mock him because of his weight is just wrong.

[abumuwahid]

To Abu Zubair I say what Allah azawajal says to us in the Quran:

“O you who believe! Let not a group scoff at another group, it may be that the latter are better than the former. Nor let (some) women scoff at other women, it may be that the latter are better than the former. Nor defame one another, nor insult one another by nicknames. How bad is it to insult one’s brother after having Faith”

[al-Hujuraat 49:11]

[Abuz Zubair]

AbuMuwahid and others, thank you all very much for your advice.

I believe OBM is an idiot to say the least, if not a zindiq employed by the British Government to advance its own agenda.

I believe he is a clown in that respect and his honour in that sense is pretty much halal.

I am sorry if he happens to be your Shaykh, or if, for some reason you hold him in respect.

Oh... and don't go near the works of Jarh and Ta'dil. You would find quotes that are a much worse, and you would probably end up accusing Shu'ba and other Imams of bad manners.

I am only calling him a pot-belly clown for his crimes against Islam. Pot-belly, he is. Clown he is. A criminal, he certainly is.

I don't know how he would be punished in an Islamic state because the crucifix wouldn't be able to carry his weight.

[abumuwahid]

AbuMuwahid and others, thank you all very much for your advice.

I believe OBM is an idiot to say the least, if not a zindiq employed by the British Government to advance its own agenda.

I believe he is a clown in that respect and his honour in that sense is pretty much halal.

I am sorry if he happens to be your Shaykh, or if, for some reason you hold him in respect.

Oh... and don't go near the works of Jarh and Ta'dil. You would find quotes that are a much worse, and you would probably end up accusing Shu'ba and other Imams of bad manners.

I am only calling him a pot-belly clown for his crimes against Islam. Pot-belly, he is. Clown he is. A criminal, he certainly is.

I don't know how he would be punished in an Islamic state because the crucifix wouldn't be able to carry his weight.

Please prove to this forum why you accuse OBM of being a zindeeq.

And since you have insulted others in a similar fashion elsewhere in this forum , by calling them clowns, am I to assume that they are kuffar as well ?

Please take your time on this. I would like to see a detailed explanation rather than an over emotional bullet points reply.

FYI: He is not my Shaykh and I disagree with some of the things that he preaches.

[Abuz Zubair]

Please prove to this forum why you accuse OBM of being a zindeew.

I said:

I believe OBM is an idiot to say the least, if not a zindiq employed by the British Government to advance its own agenda.

This doesn't mean that I consider him a zindiq. This implies a possibility of him being one.

If you want to know why, then read this thread from the beginning. Newly ppl on the scene cannot be given more explanation than this. You can take it or reject it.

OBM isn't be criticised because he is over-weight. He is be criticised because he is a clown. Clowns have big noses, big feet, big ears, etc, etc... And this is what makes them funny.

The reason OBM is called a pot-belly clown is because a) he talks Jihad, he lies to the public about his connections with the Mujahidin, he tells his followers to do the same, whereas in reality, a person cannot be as far from Jihad as he is; who is literally a pot-belly clown talking about Jihad as if he is some war veteran, and b) well, he's a clown.

Two people have caused the most damage to the British Muslim population, in my opinion: a) OBM, and b) Zaki Badawi. OBM is the worst of the two.

You guys are fresh on the scene and hence probably have no idea what this guy is about. Take my advice and don't treat him like a normal Muslim. Apart from that fact that he has a history of lying and deception, the guy could even be a zindiq and an employee of the establishment.

If you do not take my advice, then at least stay out of a topic you don't have a clue about. He isn't just some brother down the road.

He is IT, with a pot-belly.

[abumuwahid]

Why is it difficult to understand that he is being called a pot-belly not because he has a pot-belly, but because he associates himself with a 'profession' which does not go well with pot-bellies.




What profession are you referring to?

So you are not saying that OBM is a zindeeq? You are saying that you have suspicions about him being a zindeeq.

I still want to know why you have insulted other Muslims on this forum by calling them clowns.

You called OBM a pot belly because of his weight. Don't try to fool us by suggesting otherwise.

[Yasir]

You called OBM a pot belly because of his weight.Is that an insult? Is it also an insult to describe him as 'spectacled'?

[abumuwahid]

Is that an insult? Is it also an insult to describe him as 'spectacled'?

So would you say that of Sheikh Tameem Al-Adnani was a "Pot Belly" as well.

Think carefully before you speak.

[Yasir]

Think carefully before you speak.Pot belly is simply a colloquial term for the medical, 'abdominal obesity'.

Is it an insult to describe an obese person as obese, or to describe someone as 'spectacled'?
We are not talking about ridiculing or mocking a person for their features. Simply describing them as they are.

[Abuz Zubair]

I wouldn't because he is a man of Jihad.

You see, as I said before, it is not about having a pot-belly. It is about having one AND claiming to be some topshot jihadi, while you're just a lying pot-belly.

That's the point. And I frankly do not care if you get it or not.

[abumuwahid]

@Abu Zubayr,

All this dispute over a few words has left me tired and I am glad that you apologized for your insults of OBM and other Muslims on this forum.

I apologize if I said anything bad to you and to other Muslims on this forum.

May Allah reconcile the hearts of the believers.

[abumuwahid]

Pot belly is simply a colloquial term for the medical, 'abdominal obesity'.

Is it an insult to describe an obese person as obese, or to describe someone as 'spectacled'?
We are not talking about ridiculing or mocking a person for their features. Simply describing them as they are.

Erm, I asked you a very specific question?


Was Sheikh Tameem - (Shahid Insha Allah ) a pot belly or not?

[Abuz Zubair]

am glad that you apologized for your insults of OBM and other Muslims on this forum.

I am sorry, bro. I do not mean it as an insult, but you have serious problems understanding.

I apologised to muhaqqiq.

I apologised to the forum

I demanded the Mr. pot-belly fraudster should apologise to my boots.

Oh, and your apologise accepted.

Lastly, I think you have understanding difficulties, so I would desist from further posts.

[abumuwahid]

I think brother Muhaqiq meant that you should apoligize to the forum at least although if I had to personally insult another Muslim I would apologize to him as well and of course I would make tawbah for my sin.

I think my argument with Abu Zubayr is pointless. The man is impervious to psycho analysis.

[Brother_Mujahid]

So would you say that of Sheikh Tameem Al-Adnani was a "Pot Belly" as well.

Think carefully before you speak.

Did Shaykh Tamim al-Adnani (rahimahullah) become obese preaching jihad while living off the British welfare system?

[abumuwahid]

Did Shaykh Tamim al-Adnani (rahimahullah) become obese preaching jihad while living off the British welfare system?

Sorry mate. That formula just does not work.

Preaching Jihad
+ Taking benefits from the kuffar
+ Overweight
-----------------------------
Does not equal to Pot Belly
-----------------------------

Did Abu Qatada also fit into your equation. Was he a pot belly too?


Wake UP ! Brother Mujahid. You must really be desperate to justify your insults if you are resorting to such foolish statements.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Wake UP ! Brother Mujahid. You must really be desperate to justify your insults if you are resorting to such foolish statements.

Whom did I insult? I merely asked a question, I made no assertive statements. If there is desperation to be found it is not on my part. You are the ones that seem hellbent on defending `Umar Bakri. I just asked a question about how parallel the lives of the mujahid Shaykh Tamim al-Adnani (rahimahullah) and `Umar Bakri really were. One man went and fulfilled his promise to Allah, the other sat in the West saying anything to get media attention. I resent a positive comparison between these two men.

As for `Umar Bakri, pot-bellied or not, he is not worth your spirited defense. Surely all of us have better things to discuss than Bakri, whom we've wasted too much time on already.

[Skillganon]

Assalamu alaikum wr wb brothers & sisters

The thread is getting a bit boring, not to mention losing more of the little honour his has because of you deafitist attitude in defending him.

Let's put him behind us buried under the threads and out of our life.

[abumuwahid]

Wa Alaykum As Salam Skillganon,

Barik Allahu fik for ur salams which seems to be in short supply on this forum.

Look, I am tired as well. I think I made my point quite clear and let me stress once more that I am not a follower of OBM. I disagree with not only him but his followers as well.

The only point was that I was making was that it is wrong to insult another Muslim. If he is a murtad then that's fine, but a Muslim, no.

Anyway. Thats it. Perhaps this thread should be closed, insha Allah.

My apologies to Brother Mujahid. I think that it was the timing of your post that led me to believe that you were in agreement to the pot bellied insult but insha Allah I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

[Skillganon]

Wa Alaykum As Salam Skillganon,

Barik Allahu fik for ur salams which seems to be in short supply on this forum.

Look, I am tired as well. I think I made my point quite clear and let me stress once more that I am not a follower of OBM. I disagree with not only him but his followers as well.

I think you made that clear earlier bro.

The only point was that I was making was that it is wrong to insult
another Muslim. If he is a murtad then that's fine, but a Muslim, no..

I understand where you coming from.

However you must see how your post may have looked from the other side. It probably looked like you was trying to defend what little honour OBM had by attacking Abuz Zubair person, especially during the new wave of onslought. I guess it was bad timing, and one should of handle it differently.

[Abuz Zubair]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odr2pJeSMqU

Another indication that OBM the clown is actually a British agent.

If you remember post 9/11, this clown called Hassan Butt went to Pak, made a bit of noise, and came straight back to the UK - unharmed by the Pak authorities, then questioned by the UK police upon arrival (or rather, debriefed).

Now he seems to have replaced OBM and taken up his role.

It seems quite clear that their agenda is to deliberately make the Islamists, or political Islam look ugly to the people in order to send us ten steps back, each time we move a step forward.

May Allah give them what they deserve in this world, and double their punishment in the hereafter, ameen.

[Brother_Mujahid]

This guy Hassan Butt is a tool. I think he is full of it, as we say. Just a loud mouthed, attention seeker (i.e. typical of the Muhajiroun-types) was all this guy was and now he is looking for other ways to get attention by claiming to be a "reformed jihadist". He knows that the media eats these things up.

[Skillganon]

Here is a pic of him.

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ContentResources/768.$plit/C_17_Articles_86545_BodyWeb_Detail_0_Image.jpg
http://www.salfordadvertiser.co.uk/ContentResources/168.$plit/C_58_Articles_136697_Body_Web_ArticleBlock0_Image. jpghttp://www.danielpipes.org/pics/new/large/131.jpghttp://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38545000/jpg/_38545727_hassanbutt_vtff_300.jpg

[nomad]

Assalamu alaykum,

A hot bed for muhajaroon in the late 90s was Luton, with a large female following, having meetings etc. and sadly it contributed to a large amount of the activity there, so many sisters joined in unaware of the minhaj and so forth, just enjoying the social side, and the occasional lesson in fiqr. Once a sister was trying to convince me that the root word for dajjal was dajjaj (chicken),as she heard in OBM's lesson of essential fiqr (or something like that!!), so anyhow, one of the husbands just had enough, and decided to investigate the whole affair, and expose OBM for who he really was. Apparantly there is also a man who exposed him prior to this, from the tabliegi jamaat, so he met with him and got some groundwork. Anyhow, he found out some stuff, but because of his reasons he didnt show it off, but the whole sister affair came crumbling down, and they all found new little groups to cling to.

So Abuz zubayr is not the only man in uk to refute OBM,there are many mr nobodys out there who took a minute or 2 to investigate, and cross check stuff. Cross check that essential fiqr book, its full of contradictions and misquotes, even as a new muslim i understood that.

salams nomad

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

Essential fiqr? What is that? Do you mean essential fiqh?

[nomad]

yer probably, just phonic spelling in english.

[Abu Hafsa]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Ibn Taymiyyah, Siyaasah Shariah, Vol.1, P18, - quotes the battle of zaat ul-Salaasil where the Messenger of Allah (saw) said; annal dahooq al-Qattaal (I am the one who smiles when he kills). Dahooq is the one who smiles and al-Qattaal is the one who kills a lot. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
You miskeen ‘sonofadam’, al-Siyasah al-Shariah by Ibn Taymiyah is no more than 82 pages contained within the 28<SUP>th</SUP> vol of Majmu’ al-Fatawa, which you quote separately at the bottom of your appalling cut-and-paste job! From where did you get Vol.1 page 18?! How many volumes is your copy of al-Siyasah al-Shariah (if you have one)?! Show us some originality in your posts, instead of copying and pasting from a lying student of a lying teacher (OBM)!

OK i know this will not change anything with regards to what you have explained already, i.e. the meaning of the Hadith. However i was just sifting for something else and I stumbled across the following where Ibn Taymiyyah (rahimuhuallah) is talking about "ذات السلاسل":


السياسة الشرعية في إصلاح الراعي والرعية <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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في القسم الأول: أداء الأمانات ، ص 21 ،<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

ويكون بذلك من خلفاء رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، الذي هو معتدل، حتى قال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: "أنا نبي الرحمة أنا نبي الملحمة". وقال: "أنا الضحوك القتال". وأمته وسط قال تعالى فيهم: {أَشِدَّاءُ عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاءُ بَيْنَهُمْ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعاً سُجَّداً يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلاً مِنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَاناً} [الفتح: من الآية: 29] وقال تعالى: {أَذِلَّةٍ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَعِزَّةٍ عَلَى الْكَافِرِينَ} [المائدة: من الآية: 54].<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
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So it was in this edition Page 21, in which there are two sections (volumes)the first one being 106 pages, with the second section totalling up to 125 pages. Just thought I'd mention it for the sake of honesty.

[Yasir]

Can you please explain how (أنا الضحوك القتال) translates to "I am the one who smiles when he kills"?

[Abu Hafsa]

Can you please explain how (أنا الضحوك القتال) translates to "I am the one who smiles when he kills"? It does not !! refer to post #10 (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=2262&postcount=10) - neither did I say it does or imply it does !

[Yasir]

It does not !! refer to post #10 (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=2262&postcount=10) - neither did I say it does or imply it does !I didn’t say you did, bro. I was wondering how they (mis-)translate that statement to give it the twisted meaning they intend.

Incidentally only the other day I happened to look this up in ar-Riyadh al-Anfiyyah, and found that the meaning cited there similar to that mentioned by Imam Ibn al-Jawzi in Sifatus Safwah.

As for this ‘narration’ itself, is there anyone that has a version with a chain back to the Prophet sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam?