Women's Salah

[MaRyAm]

Salamz

i have been taught that salah is different for women and men. but i was wondering if this is true. and if so, what are the differences?

jazk:)

[Abuz Zubair]

A woman should try to collect herself more while bowing and prostrating, i.e. be more concealing than men.

[1mran]

A woman should try to collect herself more while bowing and prostrating, i.e. be more concealing than men.

what is the evidence for this???

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to "pray as you see me praying". and all hadith explaining the apparnt salah of women are weak, according to sheikh al-Albaani.

if there was a difference, surely the messenger of Allah would have spent atleast one time showing the women how to pray seperatly. yet there is not one authentic hadith about this.

remember, any innovation is misguidance. we should fear Allah and stick to the Quran and Sunnah

and Allah knows best

[Abuz Zubair]

jk for your advice, dear bro.

The woman is considered 'awrah and therefore her postures should be more concealing for her than men. It is narrated from the companions that they would order the women to collect themselves in prayer.

[1mran]

jk for your advice, dear bro.

The woman is considered 'awrah and therefore her postures should be more concealing for her than men. It is narrated from the companions that they would order the women to collect themselves in prayer.

but isnt that the point of the loose garments?

this is What Sheikh al-Albaani says in his book

"All that has been mentioned of the description of the Prophet's prayer (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) applies equally to men and women, for there is nothing in the Sunnah to necessitate the exception of women from any of these descriptions; in fact, the generality of his statement (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), "Pray as you have seen me praying", includes women.
This is the view of Ibraaheem an-Nakh'i, who said, "A woman's actions in the prayer are the same as a man's" - transmitted by Ibn Abi Shaibah (1/75/2), with a saheeh sanad from him.

Also, Bukhaari reported in at-Taareekh as-Sagheer (p. 95) with a saheeh sanad from Umm ad-Dardaa', "that she used to sit in her prayer just as a man sits, and she was a woman of understanding."

The hadeeth about the indimaam (tucking up) of a woman in prostration, and that she is in that regard not like a man, is mursal and not authentic. Abu Daawood transmitted it in al- Maraaseel on the authority of Yazeed ibn Abi Habeeb.

As for what Imaam Ahmad has reported, as in his son 'Abdullaah's Masaa'il, from Ibn 'Umar, that he used to instruct his wives to sit cross-legged in prayer, its sanad is not authentic, for it contains 'Abdullaah ibn 'Umar al-'Amri, who is a da'eef (weak) narrator. "

My knowledge is limited to this.

and Allah knows best

[Abuz Zubair]

( ( 43 ) المرأة كيف تكون في سجودها )

2777 حدثنا أبو بكر قال حدثنا أبو الأحوص عن أبي إسحاق عن الحارث عن علي قال إذا سجدت المرأة فلتحتفر ولتضم فخذيها
2778 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا أبو عبد الرحمن المقرئ عن سعيد بن أبي أيوب عن يزيد بن أبي حبيب عن بكير بن عبد الله بن الأشج عن بن عباس أنه سئل عن صلاة المرأة فقال تجتمع وتحتفر

2779 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا أبو الأحوص عن مغيرة عن إبراهيم قال إذا سجدت المرأة فلتضم فخذيها ولتضع بطنها عليهما
2780 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا جرير عن ليث عن مجاهد أنه كان يكره أن يضع الرجل بطنه على فخذيه إذا سجد كما تضع المرأة
2781 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا بن مبارك عن هشام عن الحسن قال المرأة تضم في السجود
2782 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا وكيع عن سفيان عن منصور عن إبراهيم قال إذا سجدت المرأة فلتلزق بطنها بفخذيها ولا ترفع عجيزتها ولا تجافي كما يجافي الرجل ( ( 44 ) في المرأة كيف تجلس في الصلاة )

2783 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا إسماعيل بن علية عن محمد بن إسحاق عن زرعة عن إبراهيم عن خالد بن اللجلاج قال كن النساء يؤمرن أن يتربعن إذا جلسن في الصلاة ولا يجلسن جلوس الرجل على أوراكهن يتقي ذلك على المرأة مخافة أن يكون منها الشيء
2784 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا أبو خالد عن محمد بن عجلان عن نافع ان صفية كانت تصلي وهي متربعة
2785 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا وكيع عن برد عن مكحول أن أم الدرداء كانت تجلس في الصلاة كجلسة الرجل
2786 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا عبد الوهاب الثقفي عن عبيد الله عن نافع قال تربع
2787 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا معتمر بن سليمان عن مسلم عن قتادة قال تجلس كما ترى أنه أيسر
2788 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا غندر عن شعبة عن منصور عن إبراهيم قال تقعد المرأة في الصلاة كما يقعد الرجل
2789 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا وكيع عن العمري عن نافع قال كن نساء بن عمر يتربعن في الصلاة
2790 حدثنا أبو بكر قال حدثنا غندر عن شعبة قال سألت حمادا عن قعود المرأة في الصلاة قال تقعد كيف شاءت
2791 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا محمد بن بكر عن بن جريج قال قلت لعطاء تجلس المرأة في مثنا على شقها الأيسر قال نعم قلت هو أحب إليك من الأيمن قال نعم قال تجتمع جالسة ما استطاعت قلت تجلس جلوس الرجل في مثنا أو تخرج رجلها اليسرى من تحت اليتها قال لا يضرها أي ذلك جلست إذا اجتمعت
2792 حدثنا أبو بكر قال حدثنا وكيع عن سفيان عن منصور عن إبراهيم قال تجلس المرأة من جانب في الصلاة
2793 حدثنا أبو بكر قال حدثنا وكيع عن سفيان نا إسرائيل عن جابر عن عامر قال تجلس المرأة في الصلاة كما تيسر

This is all from Musannaf b. Abi Shayba. Point being that this is a widespread opinion and practise amongst the Salaf, and Imam Ahmad in particular is well known for strongly considering the fatawas of companions, and then that of the tabi'in to a much lesser degree.

[1mran]

but the thing is brother, when it comes to ibadah especially, its best to stick to the sunnah.

even if its recommended by some imams who follow the way of the Salaf, thats another issue.

but to say the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) asked women to prayer differently, is not true.

and if thats so, then shouldnt we follow his command?


Narrated Malik:

We came to the Prophet and stayed with him for twenty days and nights. We were all young and of about the same age. The Prophet was very kind and merciful. When he realized our longing for our families, he asked about our homes and the people there and we told him. Then he asked us to go back to our families and stay with them and teach them (the religion) and to order them to do good things. He also mentioned some other things which I have (remembered or) forgotten. The Prophet then added, "Pray as you have seen me praying and when it is the time for the prayer one of you should pronounce the Adhan and the oldest of you should lead the prayer.

[Sahih Bukhari , Volume 1, Book 11, Number 604]


"With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Qur'ân), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought." (An-Nahl 16:44)

“Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much.” (Al-Ahzab 33:21)



“Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Obey Allâh and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)." But if they turn away, then Allâh does not like the disbelievers.” (Aali Imran 3:32)

and Allah knows Best

[Abuz Zubair]

It isn't as simple as we may think. Deducing laws in Islam is not as simple is finding or not finding a text correctly attributed to the Prophet - SallAllahu 'alaihi wa-sallam. There is an entire thought process and a ministry of law through which an issue must be processed before there being a legal ruling issued on it.

Some of the women companions who are reported to have prayed slightly differently didn't do so out of their own making. 'Pray as you have seen me praying' is a very general statement and there is no contradiction here. There is only exception to the rule.

Besides, a mujtahid should not force his opinion on another mujtahid or an 'aami... let alone an 'aami doing that. Difference of opinion exists as Allah's mercy, as Ibn Qudama says. It creates ease for people as Imam Ahmad says, and therefore we shouldn't try to eliminate this mercy and ease in our religion and learn to tolerate difference of opinion that are within the realm of legitimate differences.

[justabro]

Brother Imran, were not the Sahaba present when the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) taught them how to pray. Is it conceivable that they were praying one way in the lifetime of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and then started instructing the ladies of their house to start praying another way? Does it not indicate then that they must have been instructing their ladies to pray in that manner while the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) approved of it. Remember that the sunnah includes the tacit approvals of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم).

In addition, the statement "Pray as you have seen me pray" is a general statement. You might be aware that in the usul al-fiqh, the scholars have explained general statements can have specific exceptions. From that, obviously , when the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) was reciting out loud, the Companions were listening silently, because the imam is different from the ma'mum. Likewise, there could have been some other exceptions. Also, for the women, when they pray their own jama'ah, does she not stand in the middle of the front row, unlike the male imam. This is also not based on a marfu hadith, but actions of Companions.

Again, mind you, he is not saying that the woman performs a totally different salah, but there can be certain differences due to the difference between men and women.

[1mran]

differences arent a mercy

"The differing amongst my Ummah is a mercy."

[No isnad exists for this hadith: al-Subki (d. 756) said, "It is not known to the scholars of Hadith, and I cannot find an isnad for it, whether sahih, da'if, or maudu'." It, along with the previous one, is often used to justify the following two extremes: (i) blind following of the views of men, with no reference to the Qur'an and Sunnah; (ii) conveniently following whichever scholar holds the easiest view, or that most agreeable to one's desires, again without reference to the fundamental sources. ]

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/scienceofhadith/aape.html#G16

but i see what you are saying.

i wasnt giving my opinion, i was just conveying what i have learnt.

its just that brother, the Messenger of Allah many times showed the Sahabah how to pray. infact once he pray on the mimber just to show them:-


Narrated Abu Hazim:

Sahl bin Sa'd was asked about the (Prophet's) pulpit as to what thing it was made of? Sahl replied: "None remains alive amongst the people, who knows about it better than I. It was made of tamarisk (wood) of the forest. So and so, the slave of so and so prepared it for Allah's Apostle . When it was constructed and place (in the Mosque), Allah's Apostle stood on it facing the Qibla and said 'Allahu Akbar', and the people stood behind him (and led the people in prayer). He recited and bowed and the people bowed behind him. Then he raised his head and stepped back, got down and prostrated on the ground and then he again ascended the pulpit, recited, bowed, raised his head and stepped back, got down and prostrate on the ground. So, this is what I know about the pulpit."

Ahmad bin Hanbal said, "As the Prophet was at a higher level than the people, there is no harm according to the above-mentioned Hadith if the Imam is at a higher level than his followers during the prayers."

[Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 374]


and it has been reported that he taught women individually:-


Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

Some women requested the Prophet to fix a day for them as the men were taking all his time. On that he promised them one day for religious lessons and commandments. Once during such a lesson the Prophet said, "A woman whose three children die will be shielded by them from the Hell fire." On that a woman asked, "If only two die?" He replied, "Even two (will shield her from the Hell-fire)."

[Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 101]


Yet it not reported from him (authentically) about one difference in salah between men and women?


and yet we even know the smallest of differences, even in justmaking Takbeer:-

Narrated Muhammad bin 'Amr bin 'Ata': “…. Abu Humaid As-Saidi said, "I remember the prayer of Allah's Apostle better than any one of you. I saw him raising both his hands up to the level of the shoulders on saying the Takbir; …” [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 791]



Malik b. Huwairith reported: “The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) raised his hands apposite his ears at the time of reciting the takbir (i. e. at the time of beginning the prayer) …” [Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 0762]


You dont find this abit strange?...


and Allah knows best

[1mran]

Brother Imran, were not the Sahaba present when the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) taught them how to pray. Is it conceivable that they were praying one way in the lifetime of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and then started instructing the ladies of their house to start praying another way? Does it not indicate then that they must have been instructing their ladies to pray in that manner while the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) approved of it. Remember that the sunnah includes the tacit approvals of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم)..

I agree, but there would have been a hadith of the Messenger (peace be upon him) either commanding to do something different OR allowing something to be done different OR being silent when something is done different. Yet we have none of that....

Allah knows best


In addition, the statement "Pray as you have seen me pray" is a general statement. You might be aware that in the usul al-fiqh, the scholars have explained general statements can have specific exceptions. From that, obviously , when the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) was reciting out loud, the Companions were listening silently, because the imam is different from the ma'mum. Likewise, there could have been some other exceptions. Also, for the women, when they pray their own jama'ah, does she not stand in the middle of the front row, unlike the male imam. This is also not based on a marfu hadith, but actions of Companions.

Again, mind you, he is not saying that the woman performs a totally different salah, but there can be certain differences due to the difference between men and women.

yes, thats because the messenger never commanded the women to pray in Jamat, infact isnt it better for them to pray alone (to some extent), however, he didnt disapprove it, and hence he must have allowed it and given instruction to the sahabah.

but Allah knows best

like i said, not my opinion, just what i have herd and learnt.

men and women may be different, but i dont see how the awrah could be exposed if the sister is wearing the correct hijaab.

but i dont know much about this, so i will follow those who are more wise insha'Allah

Jazaka'Allahu khayrn for your help.

Insha'Allah i will advise my sisters

Allah knows best,

[mosa]

Assalamu alaikum,

This is the article written by Shaykh Faraz rabbani regarding difference in prayer of man and woman

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1311&CATE=4

[Noorah]

Assalamu alaikum,

This is the article written by Shaykh Faraz rabbani regarding difference in prayer of man and woman

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1311&CATE=4

Faraz Rabbani, are you for real?

[junaid123]

differences arent a mercy

"The differing amongst my Ummah is a mercy." ......

B]



Besides, a mujtahid should not force his opinion on another mujtahid or an 'aami... let alone an 'aami doing that. Difference of opinion exists as Allah's mercy, as Ibn Qudama says. .

AKhi 1mran i dont know bro abu zubair refering to this hadith or not, but the statement is in itself correct. And such qawl is used by a lot of mujtahids and great schoalrs. ANd akhi abu zubair know it better then u about the authencity of this hadiths. But take it as a statement is nothing wrong. like:
al-Hafiz al-Bayhaqi in his book al-Madkhal and al-Zarkashi in his Tadhkirah fi al-ahadith al-mushtaharah relate:
Imam al-Qasim ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr al-Siddiq said: "The differences among the Companions of Muhammad are a mercy for Allah's servants."
al-Hafiz al-`Iraqi the teacher of Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani said:
This is a saying of al-Qasim ibn Muhammad who said: The difference of opinion among the Companions of Muhammad is a mercy.
Even Sheikuhl islam ibn taymiah said in Mukhtasar al-Fatawa al-Misriyya [p. 35, 54: Cairo, 1980]
”al-A'imma Ijtima`uhum Hujjatun Qati`atun wa Ikhtilafuhum Rahmatun Wasi`a -- The consensus of the Imams [of fiqh] on a question is a definitive proof, and their divergence of opinion is a vast mercy.

ANd i am really surpriesed that akhi abu zubair mentioned the view about awrah, wehre other brothers take that hadiths of prophet mohammad(sw) directly.

[junaid123]

Faraz Rabbani, are you for real?

Well sister u dont have to see the qawl of faraz rabbani but try to get the sources which he shows and try to talk about that with schoalrs.

[Mr GQ]

Faraz Rabbani, are you for real?

LOL Hilarious to the max.

[mosa]

Faraz Rabbani, are you for real?

Salaam,

I dont know him. Check the sources he provide with other scholars.

This link also contains the same view as shaykh Rabbani
http://darulislam.info/Sections-article55-p1.html

[mosa]

Salaam,

There is one more link on the difference of salah of woman written by Shaykh Abu Yusuf Riyadhul Haq

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/womdiff.htm

[junaid123]

well akhi most of the brothers and sister here dont follow any school, they try to get direct hadiths and other evidence.

JAzakallah for the sources. MAy be bro abu zubair can say something about this matter.

[mosa]

well akhi most of the brothers and sister here dont follow any school, they try to get direct hadiths and other evidence.

JAzakallah for the sources. MAy be bro abu zubair can say something about this matter.

Assalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu,

I came across an imam in my country saying that a woman's salah is same as man. I thought he was wrong. I put the sources here to see whether salafis agree with it. Anyway, I thought that most people here follow hanbali fiqh. Also, Shaykh Abu Yusof Riyadhul Haq is a scholar in hadith and he has given hadith as evidence.

Wassalamu alaikum

[Noorah]

Salaam,

There is one more link on the difference of salah of woman written by Shaykh Abu Yusuf Riyadhul Haq

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/womdiff.htm

ok I am scanning through your link,

Sayyiduna Ibn Umar (رضئ الله عنه ) narrates that the Prophet ( صلى الله علیه وسلم) said, 'When a woman sits in salah she should place one thigh over the other, and when she prostrates she should press her stomach to her thighs in a manner that is the most concealing for her. Indeed Allah looks at her saying, "Oh my angels! I make you witness that I have forgiven her."549
549 Baihaqi 3199. He also declared it dhaeef.

Regarding this,

Al-Bayhaqi said:

Two da’eef hadeeth were narrated concerning that, the like of which cannot be taken as evidence.

The first is the hadeeth of ‘Ata’ ibn al-‘Ajlaan from Abu Nadrah al-‘Abdi from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri, the companion of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), that he used to command the men to spread out their arms in their prostration and he used to tell the women to keep their arms close to their sides in their prostration. He used to tell the men to spread their left foot along the ground (and sit on it) and place the right foot upright during the tashahhud and he used to tell the women to sit, kneeling, on their heels.” Then al-Bayyhaqi said: This is a munkar hadeeth.

The other is the hadeeth of Abu Mutee’ al-Hakam ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Balkhi from ‘Umar ibn Dharr from Mujaahid from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar who said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When a woman sits during the prayer she should place one thigh against the other and when she prostrates she should press her stomach against her thighs, compressing herself in the most concealing manner, for Allaah looks at her and says: ‘O My angels, I call you to bear witness that I have forgiven her.’” Sunan al-Bayhaqi al-Kubra, 2/222.

This hadeeth is da’eef, because it was narrated by Abu Mutee’ al-Balkhi.

Ibn Hajar said:

Ibn Mu’een said: He is nothing. On one occasion he said: He is da’eef. Al-Bukhaari said: He is da’eef. Al-Nasaa’i said: He is da’eef. Lisaan al-Mizaan, 2/334.

Ibn ‘Adiyy said: It is clear that Abu Mutee’ is da’eef in his ahaadeeth and everything that he narrated, and for most of his narrations there are no corroborating reports.

Al-Kaamil fi Du’afa’ al-Rijaal, 2/214

A third hadeeth was narrated from Yazeed ibn Abi Habeeb, saying that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) passed by two women who were praying. He said: “When you prostrate, press some of your flesh to the ground, for women are not like men in that.”

This was narrated by Abu Dawood in al-Maraaseel (p. 118) and by al-Bayhaqi (2/223).

This hadeeth is mursal, which is a category of da’eef (weak).

In al-Musannaf (1/242), Ibn Abi Shaybah narrated some reports from some of the salaf which suggest that there is a difference in the way women and men sit (in prayer), but the only evidence that counts is the words of Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Then he narrated from some of the salaf that the way in which men and women pray is the same.

Al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Umm al-Darda’ used to sit in prayer as a man sits and she was a scholarly woman.

Al-Haafiz stated in Fath al-Baari that Abu’l-Darda’ had two wives, both of whom were called Umm al-Darda’. The older one was a Sahaabiyyah and the younger one was a Taabi’iyyah. He suggested that the one who was referred to here by al-Bukhaari was the younger one.

I came across an imam in my country saying that a woman's salah is same as man. I thought he was wrong. I put the sources here to see whether salafis agree with it. Anyway, I thought that most people here follow hanbali fiqh. Also, Shaykh Abu Yusof Riyadhul Haq is a scholar in hadith and he has given hadith as evidence.
A woman when praying in a Masjid where men are present should collect themselves better for modesty reasons. But I do not know of any major differences in the prayer, if you could provide hadeeths regarding this, then InshaAllah we can all learn something.


Well sister u dont have to see the qawl of faraz rabbani but try to get the sources which he shows and try to talk about that with schoalrs.
Oh Faraz Rabbani used sources to show Mawlid is 'highly praiseworthy'
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=1776&CATE=108
And the link does not seem to be working for me, otherwise I would have given more links.

[mosa]

Salaam,

You may not accept Shaykh Rabbani. But Shaykh Riyadhul Haq has provided a lot of evidence and when a hadith is daeef he says it is daeef. he did state it. I have also sent the article to the ulema. But he is not a big ulema. there is no big ulema in my country.

Shaykh Riyadhul haq has also given actions of sahaba and vies of taabii. There are many early scholars cited....
Wallahu alam

[mosa]

A woman when praying in a Masjid where men are present should collect themselves better for modesty reasons.
.
Where did you get evidence for only this?

[junaid123]

Shaykh Riyadhul haq has also given actions of sahaba and vies of taabii. There are many early scholars cited....
Wallahu alam

Well akhi who care what any sahaba or tabii said?

they need only sahih hadiths and thats all. We follow only quran and sunnah not any aqwl of sahaba.:cool:

[juwairiyah]

Salamz

i have been taught that salah is different for women and men. but i was wondering if this is true. and if so, what are the differences?

jazk:)


assalamu'alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh

sis refer to this inshaallah

http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=9276&ln=eng

http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=38162&ln=eng

the sahabiahs would [ray in the masjid behind the sahabahs .There's no report which mentions that they wld prostrate in a way that is more concealing..we cant have more hayah than them and allah is the source of strength and knowledge

[Yasir]

There's no report which mentions that they wld prostrate in a way that is more concealing..we cant have more hayah than them and allah is the source of strength and knowledgeHave you considered the narrations in Post #6 (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=25476&postcount=6)?

[juwairiyah]

bismillah

assalamu'alaykum warahmatullah

is there any specific hadeeth of muhammed s.a.w which is specific abt women praying differently from men

[Noorah]

Where did you get evidence for only this?

i do not know of a specific hadeeth on this, but the method of prayer does not change. it will still be the same 'way' as men.

infact look at the first page of this topic

[Ibn Muhammad]

Look to Matn Abee Shujaa. The author has a specific chapter outlining some of the differences between men and women in Salah. Refer to Matn al-Ghayah wa at-Taqreeb for the evidences for those positions.

Bottom line is differences exist, and should be tolerated. :)

[Abu Maryam PK]

Bismillah
What exactly is the mercy in difference? Imam Malik said that even in differences of sahabah, the correct opinion was only one! And if one is expected to follow the sunnah in all cases, what does the difference help him?
Secondly, sorry to sound offensive, the hanafi women are made to gather herself in a way that contradicts the Prophet sallallaho'alaihiwasallam' s specific guidance, which is same for both men or women:
a) The woman lays her forearms(thira'ain) on the ground, which resembles the position which was called a dog's sitting by the Prophet sallallaho'alaihiwasallam.
b)The chest, thighs, shins are all in contact.
c)when bowing she bows for rukoo' only halfway. Whereas the Prophet sallallaho'alaihiwasallam's sunnah is to make the back level.
d)The sunnah is to raise the hands either upto the ears or to the shoulders. The man is expected to raise his hands upto the ears and the women not even upto her shoulders, but to her breasts (thadain).

All these are made-up differences. Did Allah send down evidence for this? Is worship tawqeefi(based on evidence) or ijtihadi[opinion based]?

About mujtahids forcing opinions on 'aamis and mujtahids....I have raised this issue b4, but no one has answered it properly. Look at juzz raf'ul yadein of bukhari. If one was to read it and the sharpness of bukhari's pen, what do u think of bukhari. What does bukhari say in the preface about the 'ajamis deluding the common muslims about the great sunnah of raf'ul yadein. He is very forceful about his opinion. Is this extremism? Why does he not take the difference of opinion as mercy and look the other way, instead of writing a sharp book about it? His manner in this book is the same as his manner and tone in khalq af'aal al-'ibaad, a book on aqidah.
And what about shahih ibn khuzaimah, sunan al-darimi, juzz qira'ah khalf al-mam by bukhari and baihaqi, khilafiyat by baihaqi? Were they all extremists in being so forceful about their opinions and disparaging their opponents?
And who exactly made this difference between aqidah and worship? such that difference in one is mercy and torment in another? Allah did not send Islam in 2 seperate modules.

And lastly, it is well known that ibn abi shaybah abd abdulRazzaq contains all sorts of narrations. If i have free time i will insha'Allah go with each narration step by step, some of which i remember are even mursal and others weak.

[junaid123]

a) The woman lays her forearms(thira'ain) on the ground, which resembles the position which was called a dog's sitting by the Prophet sallallaho'alaihiwasallam.


I am really fed up by hearing this statement. Monkey eat with his hands and we human being also , does it mean we follwoing the style of monkey? THe way of monkey eat and we eat is may be same but there is nothing wrong in it. WOman sits like that way for mare haya and for worship, but dogs dont sit for worship.



c)when bowing she bows for rukoo' only halfway. Whereas the Prophet sallallaho'alaihiwasallam's sunnah is to make the back level.
.

If this post were in brother section i would ask some question. But whatever forget it.

[Abu Maryam PK]

BismillahI am really fed up by hearing this statement. Monkey eat with his hands and we human being also , does it mean we follwoing the style of monkey? THe way of monkey eat and we eat is may be same but there is nothing wrong in it. WOman sits like that way for mare haya and for worship, but dogs dont sit for worship.
brother, my mother used to pray like this too. and so dp almost every woman in my family. This is what the Prophet sallallaho'alaihiwasallam said, not me.


If this post were in brother section i would ask some question. But whatever forget it.
there is no need to be shy. the sahabah used to ask questions of sexual nature while ladies were present. u can pm me

[kamran]

Assalam o alaikum,

Do we differentiate between "the sources of our deen" and "the understanding of the sources of our deen"?

Yes? No?

Kamran

[Magoo]

Assalam o alaikum,

Do we differentiate between "the sources of our deen" and "the understanding of the sources of our deen"?

Yes? No?

Kamran

they go hand in hand, the quran is a source but we have to use the other sources to understand it, the sunnah is a source but we use other sources to understand it etc...

i dont think its a yes no answer akhi

maybe someone with more knowledge can elaborate

[kamran]

they go hand in hand, the quran is a source but we have to use the other sources to understand it, the sunnah is a source but we use other sources to understand it etc...

i dont think its a yes no answer akhi

maybe someone with more knowledge can elaborate

Nopes! Just think again. I just want to know that do we differentiate between the "Sources of the Deen" and the "Understanding of the Sources of the Deen"?

I am not asking that "how do we understand the sources". I am simply asking that do we differentiate between the two or not. And I believe that it is a yes or no answer.

Kamran

[Magoo]

Nopes! Just think again. I just want to know that do we differentiate between the "Sources of the Deen" and the "Understanding of the Sources of the Deen"?

I am not asking that "how do we understand the sources". I am simply asking that do we differentiate between the two or not. And I believe that it is a yes or no answer.

Kamran

im "manhaj al istidhlal" they are separated when you study usool, first its the "sources of information" then its "understanding" them

[kamran]

im "manhaj al istidhlal" they are separated when you study usool, first its the "sources of information" then its "understanding" them

Precisely. There are the sources and then there is an understanding of the sources.

Would like to know what Abu Zee thinks.

Kamrna

[sunnih]

Salamz

i have been taught that salah is different for women and men. but i was wondering if this is true. and if so, what are the differences?

jazk:)

There are few differences between the prayer of women and men like:

1) The area of the body that must be covered.

2) The male can be imam for the female while the oposite is not true.

3) The female can be lined up behind the male but the oposite is not true.

4) The best line for men is the first while the best one for women is the last.

5) The worse line for men is the last while the worse line for women is the first.

6) It is obligatory for the male to attend the congregational prayer in the masjid while it is not obligatory for the female.

7) Jumuah is obligatory for the male but not for the female.

8) If the imam makes a mistake the males say subhanallah while the females clap their hands

So there are various differences between their prayers. As for the manner in which the prayer is to be performed there is disagreement between the scholars. It seems that the best opinion is that there is no diference between the performance of prayer itself and Allah knows best.