Newsnight programme (30th april ) [Archive]

Abuz Zubair

2nd May 2007, 12:58 AM

1mran

2nd May 2007, 01:53 AM

JAWAD AKBAR: "I think the club thing you could do, but the gas would be much harder. Club stuff - there's people who even get in yeah, with like they're searching stuff yeah, but it's only the bouncers that search you."
"Bruv, just before we thing, you don't think this place is bugged, do you?"
OMAR KHYAM: "No, I don't think it's bugged bruv, at all. I don't even think the car is bugged. What we're doing, if they knew about it they wouldn't wait a day bro, they wouldn't wait one day to arrest me, yeah, or any of us."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6466817.stm

what is going on?????

they sound like .....

we spend so much time trying to fix the name of islam, and these idiots mess it up with one conversation.

if they wanted to fight in jihad, then why not fight the people who are actually killing the muslims.

killing innocent people in trains, clubs, etc is not jihad. especially when these places (atleast trains anyway), have muslims in them.

these people should be spoken to and giving naseeha.

if they still dnt listen, .... subhanAllah, i wnder if they would allowed to be executed because of the fitnah they will cause.

its because of these stupid brothers we have people spitting on sisters and people discriminating with brothers with beards.

ofcourse its not a valid excuse for them, but why give them a reasn?

they should get up and fight with honour, in a battle field, not in restaurants.

i understand the issue of collateral damage, but these people seem so ignorant.

Mujahideen are not stupid people, they are people of the highest level of imaan, and they understand that victory comes from Allah.

what do these people think they can achieve by killing a hand full of innocent people?

i dunno.. it doesnt make sense to me...

Allah knows best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzTcJMz0xN0

Umm

2nd May 2007, 09:34 AM

if they wanted to fight in jihad, then why not fight the people who are actually killing the muslims.

It depends which way you look at it. 9/11 struck a blow to the US economy, that same economy that funds the killing of Muslims in various countries.

Yes, they were reckless, but this is what happens when the new generation act without wisdom or experience. The more experienced brothers won't touch them with a barge pole, for fear of going down with them, as they sense their recklessness and naivety. And so, they wander without guidance, and land themselves in a mess. Our job is to make du'a for our brothers, not make rejoice at their capture. That doesn't help anyone. How many Muslims would sincerely write to these brothers in order to lift their emaan?

these people should be spoken to and giving naseeha.

Naseehah can only be given if
1) people ask
2) they are willing to listen.

"Look at their security, it's crap, it's a joke." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/26/nterr26.xml

:)

Made Allah reward them for their concern for the Ummah, forgive their mistakes and return them to their families as stronger Muslims, ameen.

Abuz Zubair

2nd May 2007, 09:42 AM

Again... Are they being punished by Allah or being rewarded?

Were they up for a noble task? Or were they out there to rape the Sharia, as many of such ppl like to do?

To be frank with you... I don't care about the loss of a million lives when Sharia is being raped. Not that the former is insignificant, but the latter I believe is far too important to be messed around with kiddies.

Allah is going to preserve His religion, even if it means 100s of such kids are locked up. I would lock them up myself to that end!

Yasir

2nd May 2007, 11:14 AM

9/11 struck a blow to the US economy, that same economy that funds the killing of Muslims in various countries.How long did it take for the US Economy to recover?How many Muslims would sincerely write to these brothers in order to lift their emaan?Write to them and say what?
If the media reports are correct, Thank you for planning to blow up a shopping centre and kill dozens of Muslims and non-Muslims? Thank you for being so dull to actually think Islam sanctions your plans for indiscriminate mass-murder? Oh, and we mustn't forget to add in the Postscript, "Down Down British Law! Free the Muslim Prisoners!"

Umm

2nd May 2007, 11:29 AM

How long did it take for the US Economy to recover?

What a naive thought. The US economy, even kaafirs acknowledge the defesit the military action is accruing.

Umm

2nd May 2007, 11:34 AM

If the media reports are correct, Thank you for planning to blow up a shopping centre and kill dozens of Muslims and non-Muslims? Thank you for being so dull to actually think Islam sanctions your plans for indiscriminate mass-murder? Oh, and we mustn't forget to add in the Postscript, "Down Down British Law! Free the Muslim Prisoners!"

Again, how many Muslims disapprove of such actions, because they are scared of the repercussions they themselves will suffer? If shariah 100% supported such an action, would you applaud them? Or would it be a case of "Well, it is allowed, but what will the non-Muslims think"

I am not saying that it is allowed, I am just curious to know how many Muslims really object on the grounds of shariah "being raped" as Abu Z puts it, or in the interests of self-preservation.

In Islaam, there is such a thing as being there for a Muslim, even if you don't agree with their views. Such a thing as giving them the correct tarbiyyah. It is true that such a process is a laborious one, and not as much "fun" as snide, caustic comments fired out from over the Net.

Yasir

2nd May 2007, 11:37 AM

At the risk of appearing naive - even to you - I'll ask, are you suggesting the US Economy has not recovered since 9/11?The US economy, even kaafirs acknowledge the defesit the military action is accruing.So military action carried out by the US has ceased since 9/11? Is the defecit the US is facing, a direct result of 9/11?

Umm

2nd May 2007, 11:43 AM

Yasir

2nd May 2007, 11:47 AM

Again, how many Muslims disapprove of such actions, because they are scared of the repercussions they themselves will suffer? If shariah 100% supported such an action, would you applaud them?Are you being hypothetical, as I can't see anyone legitimising of their reported plans? Does the Shar'iah support their actions?... I am just curious to know how many Muslims really object on the grounds of shariah "being raped" as Abu Z puts it, or in the interests of self-preservation.Even if it was for the sake of self-preservation, is that something foreign to the Shariah?Such a thing as giving them the correct tarbiyyah.I agree that the Muslim community must do much more to educate Muslims about the Shari'ah. However, the question always rises, where did this idea originate? Why would a bunch of teenagers go on to think their planning such horrific acts would be something endorsed by the Shari'ah or something positive for Islam?

Abuz Zubair

2nd May 2007, 12:03 PM

I am not saying that it is allowed, I am just curious to know how many Muslims really object on the grounds of shariah "being raped" as Abu Z puts it, or in the interests of self-preservation.

That is completely irrelevant, when Sharia is actually being raped as we speak by the very people who claim to defend and implement it.

It is like a woman being raped, and you ask: 'Oh, are you condemning it for your own preservation or because it is forbidden in Islam?'

The worst thing is that we do not even feel for the abuse of Sharia, and even if we do, we just brush it aside as if its nothing... 'InshaAllah, these brothers will learn and reflect... they only made a small silly mistake...'

And as far as self-preservation is concerned, isn't that also endorsed by the Sharia? Or does it even matter? Do we even care?

1mran

2nd May 2007, 12:43 PM

It depends which way you look at it. 9/11 struck a blow to the US economy, that same economy that funds the killing of Muslims in various countries.

Yes, they were reckless, but this is what happens when the new generation act without wisdom or experience. The more experienced brothers won't touch them with a barge pole, for fear of going down with them, as they sense their recklessness and naivety. And so, they wander without guidance, and land themselves in a mess. Our job is to make du'a for our brothers, not make rejoice at their capture. That doesn't help anyone. How many Muslims would sincerely write to these brothers in order to lift their emaan?

Naseehah can only be given if
1) people ask
2) they are willing to listen.

"Look at their security, it's crap, it's a joke." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/26/nterr26.xml

:)

Made Allah reward them for their concern for the Ummah, forgive their mistakes and return them to their families as stronger Muslims, ameen.

9/11 hardly did anything to the US economy. infact all it did was give bush excuse to invest in the military sector and look at how much money he had.

plus if we want to go for the "little evil, for greater good", ever since 9/11 muslims have been prosecuted even more. so how did that help?????.

i have written to imams who have been arrested, but i wouldnt write to some1 who plans to kill innocent people in public areas, especially if my family could be there. maybe he should wait for his family to come and then blow himself up!

im talking about combat in countries like uk and US. issues of paletsine are different tho....

i duno..

Allah knows best

1mran

2nd May 2007, 12:46 PM

What a naive thought. The US economy, even kaafirs acknowledge the defesit the military action is accruing.

yes, but that was AFTER the failure of Iraq.

and the issue of iraq was that of Saddam

but lets not forget the apparent oil they are stealing.

its normaly for an economy to go up and down, just give it time, u will see how the US economy will rise up again. its just a matter of time.

1mran

2nd May 2007, 12:50 PM

Again, how many Muslims disapprove of such actions, because they are scared of the repercussions they themselves will suffer? If shariah 100% supported such an action, would you applaud them? Or would it be a case of "Well, it is allowed, but what will the non-Muslims think"

I am not saying that it is allowed, I am just curious to know how many Muslims really object on the grounds of shariah "being raped" as Abu Z puts it, or in the interests of self-preservation.

In Islaam, there is such a thing as being there for a Muslim, even if you don't agree with their views. Such a thing as giving them the correct tarbiyyah. It is true that such a process is a laborious one, and not as much "fun" as snide, caustic comments fired out from over the Net.

you should understand that the Shariah is there for our protection.

So if something is allowed, we understand that there is good in it, even if we dont see in, and if something is haram, we understand its bad, even we dont see the initial dangers

how could the shariah allowed killing of innocent people?

you know, if u have a glass of wine with ur dinner everyday, its actually good for ur digestion! yet its haram? why? because we know that people will not be able to control themselevs. yes maybe one or two people can, but majority as a whole will not and the result of acohol is deaths due to assualt, rape, drink driving, poisoning, etc so the effect is felt on the society as a whole.

so if suicide bombing would anger afew and help many muslims, that would be understandable, but all these people are doing are giving the kuffar more excuse to oppress.

Jihad and Da'wah come together

and Allah knows best

1mran

2nd May 2007, 12:52 PM

The fact that military action has increased since 9-11, is due to America's pride. in being a "superpower". America is like the bully who gets punched in the stomach unexpectedly by a weaker opponent - and hit hurts. She fights back even stronger for the present. However, long term, she will crumble insha'Allah.

The defesit wasn't there in Clinton's reign, as far as I recall. So 9-11 and the ensuing military action that followed have caused it.

america will be here till the end, they will probably be part of the army the muslims fight in the end.

they have over 5,000 nuclear weapons, and we have seen that they dont mind using them.

if they were worried abt money, all they would have to do is stop trying to get to Mars, and they would have all the money they needed.

1mran

2nd May 2007, 01:00 PM

That is completely irrelevant, when Sharia is actually being raped as we speak by the very people who claim to defend and implement it.

It is like a woman being raped, and you ask: 'Oh, are you condemning it for your own preservation or because it is forbidden in Islam?'

The worst thing is that we do not even feel for the abuse of Sharia, and even if we do, we just brush it aside as if its nothing... 'InshaAllah, these brothers will learn and reflect... they only made a small silly mistake...'

And as far as self-preservation is concerned, isn't that also endorsed by the Sharia? Or does it even matter? Do we even care?

you read about the great Mujahideen, from the time of the companions, to even Salahudeen, and you see how they were very knowledgeable and they were aware of what they were doing.

how do this brothers, who you may know are muslims the first time u see them, think they could bring down a country by killing innocent people?

im not saying we shouldnt fight them, but even the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) had battle plans. just look at how he lined them up during Jihad.

i live in the uk and i see and speak to youth here. they really have strange views and it does seem like they have been brainwashed. many of them fight for palestine, yet have no idea why! some are not even sure where it is!

some even believe it says in the quran that u should go kill the non muslims.

May Allah guide us all.

y-mughal

2nd May 2007, 01:14 PM

, and these idiots mess it up with one conversation.

i wnder if they would allowed to be executed because of the fitnah they will cause.

its because of these stupid brothers

The only person that seems to be demonstrating his idiocy is you by giving a Fatwa in almost every thread you enter like some Grand Mufti and now you wonder if they should be executed or not - even the Kuffar are not that extreme.

abu_ibrahim

2nd May 2007, 01:16 PM

The only person that seems to be demonstrating his idiocy is you by giving a Fatwa in almost every thread you enter like some Grand Mufti and now you wonder if they should be executed or not - even the Kuffar are not that extreme.

lol, my words exactly. This guy is passing fatwa left, right and centre as if he is some scholar. May Allah protect us from the Ruwaybidhah. Ameen.

y-mughal

2nd May 2007, 01:25 PM

May Allah protect us from the Ruwaybidhah.

Ameen. Ameen.

abudurrah

2nd May 2007, 01:54 PM

if one feels that someone doing something which is not good for shariah, they should deal with issues themselves and not give them to the police.

"A Muslim is the brother of another Muslim. He does not oppress him, nor does he leave him at the mercy of others." (Sahih Muslim Book 032, Number 6219)

1mran

2nd May 2007, 02:16 PM

The only person that seems to be demonstrating his idiocy is you by giving a Fatwa in almost every thread you enter like some Grand Mufti and now you wonder if they should be executed or not - even the Kuffar are not that extreme.

i wasnt giving fatwa!

i was just trying to make an analogy with what one of the scholars of the Salaf said, about apostates and those who intentionally miss Salah to cause fitnah

subhanAllah

do i give fatwa in everythread?

1mran

2nd May 2007, 02:18 PM

lol, my words exactly. This guy is passing fatwa left, right and centre as if he is some scholar. May Allah protect us from the Ruwaybidhah. Ameen.

i have posted fatwa of other scholars. i dont give fatwa!

Ruwaybidhah?! subhanAllah, i dont even want to comment on that...

Umm

2nd May 2007, 02:48 PM

Allright, let's all calm down with the insults, insha'Allah.

That is completely irrelevant, when Sharia is actually being raped as we speak by the very people who claim to defend and implement it.

It is like a woman being raped, and you ask: 'Oh, are you condemning it for your own preservation or because it is forbidden in Islam?'...

No, it isn't like that at all. It's like this scenario:
A white woman gets raped in a far-away area. An Asian man hears of it, but isn't really bothered.

Then a white woman gets raped in his own area, and the BNP go Paki bashing. Suddenly it's like "That was such a bad thing which happened to the lady...Now we'll all be targettted..."

It is pure hypocrisy. How many forum members (many different forums) were gleeful over 9/11, copy and pasting fataawa to endorse it, but as soon as it concerns the UK, suddenly shari'ah is a concern? Suddenly it is, "But what of the da'wah?" Abu Zubair and Yasir, my comments are honestly not directed at you. It is a general observation of what I have noticed online and off, over the years.

1mran

2nd May 2007, 03:28 PM

Allright, let's all calm down with the insults, insha'Allah.

No, it isn't like that at all. It's like this scenario:
A white woman gets raped in a far-away area. An Asian man hears of it, but isn't really bothered.

Then a white woman gets raped in his own area, and the BNP go Paki bashing. Suddenly it's like "That was such a bad thing which happened to the lady...Now we'll all be targettted..."

It is pure hypocrisy. How many forum members (many different forums) were gleeful over 9/11, copy and pasting fataawa to endorse it, but as soon as it concerns the UK, suddenly shari'ah is a concern? Suddenly it is, "But what of the da'wah?" Abu Zubair and Yasir, my comments are honestly not directed at you. It is a general observation of what I have noticed online and off, over the years.

actually i agree, i have seen that hypocrisy too.

gag order

2nd May 2007, 09:26 PM

Again... Are they being punished by Allah or being rewarded?

either way, for a muslim it is expiation, allah sends different trials to different people..

Were they up for a noble task? Or were they out there to rape the Sharia, as many of such ppl like to do?

'rape' the sharia is more like when a muslim government overrules it, and prefers the law written by their own hands.

and why must you always describe the sharia as a woman does it make you feel more attached to it or something?

Abuz Zubair

2nd May 2007, 11:26 PM

either way, for a muslim it is expiation, allah sends different trials to different people..

Again, it does not answer my question.

Do you believe that Allah is rewarding them for planning to kill those whom He has forbidden to kill in his name? Do you think He is rewarding them for distorting His Sharia?

'rape' the sharia is more like when a muslim government overrules it, and prefers the law written by their own hands.

Not at all. That's more like a divorce. Rape is when someone abuses the Sharia. These governments have nothing to do with the Sharia. It only forms a part of their laws.

Whereas the modernists and these extremists claim to adhere to Sharia alone, or so they would like us to think, and in order to live up to their claims and keep up with their separate agendas simultaneously, they rape the Sharia.

Oh, and women aren't the only species subject to rape. Ask the Northern Alliance or the American forces, they'll tell you all about it.

Abuz Zubair

2nd May 2007, 11:27 PM

Bros, remember we all at one point were giving fatwas left right and centre, and unfortunately, many of us still do.

gag order

3rd May 2007, 12:16 AM

Oh, and women aren't the only species subject to rape. Ask the Northern Alliance or the American forces, they'll tell you all about it.

this additional information was not required..

if you recall you once said to someone about the sharia, "hands off" :D i was just wondering if the sharia belonged to you?

Do you believe that Allah is rewarding them for planning to kill those whom He has forbidden to kill in his name? Do you think He is rewarding them for distorting His Sharia?

then their reward is their expiation...

Skillganon

3rd May 2007, 12:19 AM

OK. Good conversation, the only part I do not get is how did Brother 1mran was giving his own fatwaah?
That was perplexing. Only one statement may have been seen a bit extreme but he that depends how you look at it (he was wondering).

.

gag order

3rd May 2007, 01:12 AM

The judge told them: "You have betrayed this country that has given you every opportunity."

except the oppurtunity to carry out the ALLEGED bombing !!!

Home Secretary John Reid said: "Five dangerous terrorists are now behind bars thanks to the hard work of our police and security services

in setting them up?

MI5 replaced the ammonium nitrate with a harmless substance and kept the group under surveillance before swooping in a series of raids.

or MI5 replaced the harmless substance with ammonium nitrate...

this entire case seems to rests solely on MI5 surveillance or agenda, infact it seems almost like a whitch hunt against some of those who have come into contact with the 7/7 bombers

guilt by association?

Brother_Mujahid

3rd May 2007, 02:50 AM

There are several factors that come into place in a situation like this. Abuz-Zubayr touched on some of them from one angle, though I don't entirely agree with his attitude toward these arrested youth. I really pity these brothers and I don't wish prison on them (or any Muslim), though if the charges against them are accurate then one can only acknowledge they are reaping the deeds they sowed.

Anyways, almost anytime one of these situations pops up their is always some "informant" (FBI or MI5) heavily involved. You can trace this trend all the way from the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993. These emotional and gullible youth are easily deceived by the sly words of government agents that fill their naive minds full of various methods (almost always involving blowing up trains, buses, etc) to channel their rage and perceived sense of helplessness.

I think part of this is the fault of our leadership. Instead of trying to address the issues that are of concern to these youth, they are left to be preyed upon by the likes of Omar Bakri or Abu Isa or Abdullah al-Faisal and other extreme groups and individuals who work quickly on their impressionable minds. Meanwhile many of the self-proclaimed leaders of the Muslim community are only interested in pandering to the most anti-Muslim factions (Blair, Reid, Bush, etc) in government and bending over backward to fit in (assamilate). This is a serious dilemma that must be addressed before it does irreputable harm to the Muslim community.