We Are Ignorant Deviants!

[terrorthreat]

<font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="2"><u><span>We Are Ignorant Deviants!</span></u></font>

<font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="2"><span>Please teach us, guide us, and correct us!</span></font></p>



<span><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="2">By the Noble Shay<u>kh</u></font></span></p>

<font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="2"><u><span>H</span></u><span>usayn ibn Ma<u>h</u>m</span><span>ū</span><span>d</span></font></p>

<span><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="2">May All<span>ā</span>h preserve him</font></span></p>



<span><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="2">&quot;... <span>I have read most of the fatāwā that have emanated from the scholars, preachers, and students of knowledge- of both well-known and unknown- regarding the tafj</span><span>ī</span><span>rāt</span><span> (bombings [which have taken place in the Arabian Peninsula]) and their <u>h</u>ukm (ruling) in the Sharī’ah. And I have seen that all of them based around the same arguments...&quot;</span></font></span></p>

<span><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="2"><span>http://www.tibyan.com/download.php?id=44</span></font></span></p>

[Logic lover]

May Allah reward 'Terrorthreat' for posting the article 'we are the ignorant deviants'.

The article provides, insha Allah, in a nutshell, the position of the Mujahideen towards the issues of the Sharia, covenant, Wala wal bara, fighting and ability and so on. I do not remember reading such an article (from the point of view of the Taifatul Mansoora -the Victorious party), which is concise in raising the points with the prime evidences supplied.

Anyone wanting to refute the positions taken by the author should address the issues raised head-on, instead of long approach to duck and dive.

[Abuz Zubair]

btw, any idea who Husayn ibn Mahmud is? Any bio?</p>

wasalam</p>

[terrorthreat]

TAKEN FROM TIBYAN MESSAGE BOARD:</p>

*******Shuyookh like Husayn ibn Mahmood, or Lewis 'Atiyyatullaah, and their likes - will not release biographies of themselves. Maybe you heard, there is a war against Islaam? Why would these Shuyookh advertise their entire background, when they know they would be stopped if it was known. And most likely, these aren't even their real names, its just pen names.

Just like Shaykh Yoosuf Al-'Uyayree (ra) was never known publically, until after he was martyred. Before that, his books came out under the pen name, &quot;Qaahir As-Saleebiyyeen&quot; [The Subjugater of the Crusaders].

This does not mean we do not know the background of any scholar - because we do know the backgrounds of Shuyookh like Aboo Muhammad Al-Maqdisee, Shaykh 'Alee Al-Khudhayr, Shaykh Naasir Al-Fahd, Shaykh 'Abdul-Qaadir ibn 'Abdil-'Azeez, Shaykh Al-'Ulwaan, etc.

But at the same time, we do not know much background of Shuyookh like Shaykh 'Abdulllaah Ar-Rashood, Shaykh 'Abdullaah Ar-Rasheed, Shaykh Faaris Az-Zahraanee, Shaykh Sultaan Al-'Utaybee, etc.

So I hope you keep this in mind everytime you ask for the biography of a Shaykh. </p>

[Abuz Zubair]

Fair enough, if some of the ‘Mashaikh’ would like to conceal their identity for security reasons, but it begs the question, can anyone now write anything on Islam and Jihad, sign his pen-name along with ‘the Noble Sheikh’ underneath it and expect the Muslims to accept/act upon it? </p>

Legally speaking, is it allowed for a layman to act on a person’s fatwa whilst not knowing whether he is a qualified Mufti or not? </p>

There are also other Mashaikh you mentioned some of them are very well known to all, such as Khudair, Fahd et al, these Mashaikh need no biographies because their status is well known and Sh Nasir’s books are still sold in prominent Saudi Islamic bookshops. </p>

Some such as Sh ‘Abd al-Qadir are not that well known, but nevertheless, they have become famous for their academic works such as al-Jami’ fi Talab al-‘ilm, which no one can deny is a masterpiece (bar his extremism in Takfir and lashing out on Jama’ah al-Jihad/Dhawahiri). </p>

Others, such as ‘Uyayri are merely Talabat al-‘Ilm (students of knowledge) and not really scholars. Writing an excellent Fiqhi research paper on the execution of prisoners of war does not make a person a scholar. In fact, all students in Saudi are required to write a research paper for graduation. </p>

Now, Husayn ibn Mahmud in particular, what of the above categories does he fit in? He is certainly not known himself at all, nor is he known for any famous work such as Sh ‘Abd al-Qadir, nor is he known for any dissertation such as Sh al-‘Uyayri, so how can anyone acknowledge that he is a person of knowledge, let alone a Talib al-‘Ilm or a Sheikh? This is a genuine question. </p>

Perhaps, I can take this opportunity to highlight something amongst some of our brothers? Let’s admit that we are most usually ignorant of the scholars who are known for their Ilm, until they make a controversial statement and become famous. </p>

For example, Sheikh Humud al-Shu’aibi was one of the most senior scholars of the Peninsula. So senior that the Sheikh, along with other senior Mashaikh such as Sh Muhammad ibn Ibrahim and Sh ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Aqil would travel to give Bay’ah to King Faisal. However, most of us had never heard of the Sheikh until he gave his verdict on the Taliban and Azzam Publications published it on the internet. </p>

The problem is, often non-scholars are given the status of scholars by some, and many of our brothers take it for granted without questioning anything. </p>

wasalam </p>

[Logic lover]

<font size="2">

Title of the article:</p><u>

''We Are Ignorant Deviants!</p></u></font><font face="Times New Roman"></font><font size="2">

Please teach us, guide us, and correct us!''</p>

By implication, it suggests that the author is not issuing a fatwa, but merely asking the people of knowledge for teaching, guidance and correction. </p>

Quote from the article ''but yet these fatawa have created some difficulties for us - since they contradict some of the things which we were taught by the same people who issued these fatawa; and these fatawa also contradict the ancient scholars quoted within these same fatawa''.</p></font>

It seems that the author has approached the issues raised on the point of view of contradictions in those fatawa. Regardless of whether the author is a real scholar, the question may be asked - does one have to a scholar in order to inquire about the apparent contradictions in the fatawa of the scholars?</p>

Just because, one has reached the level of scholarship, does it mean that he can be followed without question? One has to bear in mind the warning issued in the Quran 9:31 regarding taking the scholars as Rabb besides Allah. What about the example of the evil scholar mentioned in the Quran 7:175 in the context of our discussion?</p>

As for the truth/falsehood of one's claim on any issue, the requirement is not to produce the scholar, but evidence. ''Produce your evidence, if you are truthfull'' (Quran 2:111).</p>

In any case, in the article one will find the references where the scholars issuing a fatwa have been named. So, even the assumed requirement of the scholarship has been met.</p>

Hence, in my view, what remains to be addressed is whether the issues raised in the article conform to the sharia as far as the stance of the author is concerned. Even, the devil can speak the truth, what about the case of a Muslim (as I assume the author to be)? I must make it clear that there is no attempt on my part to downgrade true scholarship.</p>

*******</p>

Allah knows best. </p>

[slaveofLord_22]

Assalamu alaikum......


Its a request to brothers that when they paste any web address...they also, if possible, also paste the entire content......since the above address is inaccessible from Dubai.....so hope u do sumthin bout it......


was-salaam

[Nasrullah1]

Walaikumasalam warahmatullahi wabarakathu,</p>



http://ccc.1asphost.com/tibyan/tibyan_publications/refutations/We_Are_Ignorant_Deviants.pdf</p>

[Nasrullah1]

Originally Posted by slaveofLord_22</p>

Assalamu alaikum......


Its a request to brothers that when they paste any web address...they also, if possible, also paste the entire content......since the above address is inaccessible from Dubai.....so hope u do sumthin bout it......


was-salaam </p>



Walaikumasalam warahmatullahi wabarakathu,</p>



The article is protected so you cannot copy the text and paste it into a document. Make sure you have Adobe Acrobat installed so you can read it Inshallah.</p>

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

as salaamu alaykum

akhi abu zubayr isnt shaykh nasir ibn hammad al fahd known for gholoo?

[abu_ibrahim]

as salaamu alaykum

akhi abu zubayr isnt shaykh nasir ibn hammad al fahd known for gholoo?

You seem to enter into matters which are clearly out of your depth. Just worry about learning the basics.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

jazakallaah khayr akhi

[aburasheed]

Walaikumasalam warahmatullahi wabarakathu,




http://ccc.1asphost.com/tibyan/tibyan_publications/refutations/We_Are_Ignorant_Deviants.pdf

This one is not accessible as well.

[Abu Qital al Muwahid]

New Link:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/gra2tz