Bad News for chocolate fans

[Ibn Adam]

http://www.masterfoodsconsumercare.co.uk/images/brands.jpg

Masterfoods the company behind Snickers, Mars bars, Bounty bars, etc. has decided to change their rennet ingredient over to an animal base.

They'd previously been producing vegetarian compliant chocolate bars but alas, no more.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6653175.stm

Anyone liable to be thrown into a deep depression by this news can contact them here:

http://www.masterfoodsconsumercare.co.uk/contact_us.asp

The Vegetarian Society is also peeved at the decision.

http://www.vegsoc.org/news/2007/mars.html

[Abu_Zahid]

What a disaster!!

I just sent the following to them, maybe other brothers n sisters would want to send something similar inshaAllah :D


I was extremely upset to wake up to the news that your company has begun to use animal ingredients in your products. As you may know, as well as many vegetarians, Muslims (not to mention Jews I would think) are very strict about their food and almost all of us check our products for the "Suitable for Vegetarians" sign before purchase. With 1-2 million Muslims in the UK, as well as your Muslim customers outside of the region, I feel you are letting down a huge market, besides other groups who are also upset at your decision. This news is spreading like wildfire amongst the Muslim community. Similar things have happened in the past with other companies, and the news will very quickly spread through every mosque in the country. This will mean that very soon you will lose the majority of your Muslim customers for sure, as well as many non-Muslims who are also concerned. Lucozade did this in the past by including alcohol in their drink. They eventually backtracked and got rid of this, due to the consequences they saw - i.e. they lost the enitre Muslim market. I hope you will take my comments into consideration. Thank you.

[waziri]

I think this is very good news,these products have no or very little nutritional value.

If all the muslim kids stop eating these chocalates then it can only be a good thing.

If only every manufacturer of such things would do the same our kids would be better off.

[Umm Ahmed]

It's not only the kids that like them.

[Abu Faaris As-Sumalee]

Lucozade did this in the past by including alcohol in their drink

but bro there was nothing wrong with that.

The amount of alcohol in those drinks isn't anywhere near enough to make you drunk, so its perfectly permissible to consume.

If you could get drunk after drinking large quantity's of it, then yes it would be haram in small quantity's as well.

And Allaah knows best

[Abu Hafsa]

but bro there was nothing wrong with that.The amount of alcohol in those drinks isn't anywhere near enough to make you drunk, so its perfectly permissible to consume. If you could get drunk after drinking large quantity's of it, then yes it would be haram in small quantity's as well. And Allaah knows best

Whose fatwa is that Abu Faris, im not disagreeing with it, just wanna be in line with taking fatwas from Muftis I am ok with, some explanation from them with evidences would be even better. Barakallah Feek.

[Ibn Adam]

If you read this article it'll give you an insight into the principle:

http://www.islamtoday.net/english/showme2.cfm?cat_id=2&sub_cat_id=561

[Abu_Zahid]

but bro there was nothing wrong with that.

The amount of alcohol in those drinks isn't anywhere near enough to make you drunk, so its perfectly permissible to consume.

If you could get drunk after drinking large quantity's of it, then yes it would be haram in small quantity's as well.

And Allaah knows best

Really? I did not know that..I stand corrected!

JazaakAllah khair akhi

[waziri]

With regards to non alcohlic beers (as discussed in the fatawa above)then there seems to be alot of it in the shops lately.

Has anyone else noticed how many different brands of non alcoholic beer there is,or is it just my area that has been flooded with the stuff in recent months.

Ive tried it and it is quite nice espeacially the flavoured types,makes a refreshing change from fizzy pops,but I just wish the bottles were'nt designed like regular beer bottles.

I saw 2 young muslim guy's standing drinking some last friday and so I shouted over "oi what you two doing standing aroud drinking beer its nearly time for jumma get to masjid".lol

[Ibn Muhammad]

One crazy incident happened to me some time ago. I went to the shop nearby the local masjid to purchase a orange juice drink, however the bottle appeared to look similar to one of them alcohol beverage bottles. I didn't pay any attention to this as I knew it didn't have any percentange of alcohol, but little did I know others soon will. So here's me, with a bottle of orange juice in my hand walking up to the masjid alongside a bro, getting ready to pray the next Salaah in Jamaah. On the way to the masjid, I happened to pass by 2 clean shaven middle aged asian men. One of them looked at me in an odd manner and then looked to the bottle in my hand, at this time I was too busy talking to the bro I was with to pay any serious attention to the weird looks this guy had just given me. Then I overheard him whisper something to his collegue, something to the effect of 'Dehko uskeh haath meh sharaab kee botal hai' (Look, he has an alcohol bottle in his hand). I really was too preoccupied talking to the brother to actually realise what he has just said, I only realised after entering the masjid.

So this clean shaven asian man, saw 2 bearded bros tagging along with each other, one with an 'alcoholic beverage' in his hand, heading to the masjid to pray. He must of had the shock of his life!

[Niqaabis]

One crazy incident happened to me some time ago. I went to the shop nearby the local masjid to purchase a orange juice drink, however the bottle appeared to look similar to one of them alcohol beverage bottles. I didn't pay any attention to this as I knew it didn't have any percentange of alcohol, but little did I know others soon will. So here's me, with a bottle of orange juice in my hand walking up to the masjid alongside a bro, getting ready to pray the next Salaah in Jamaah. On the way to the masjid, I happened to pass by 2 clean shaven middle aged asian men. One of them looked at me in an odd manner and then looked to the bottle in my hand, at this time I was too busy talking to the bro I was with to pay any serious attention to the weird looks this guy had just given me. Then I overheard him whisper something to his collegue, something to the effect of 'Dehko uskeh haath meh sharaab kee botal hai' (Look, he has an alcohol bottle in his hand). I really was too preoccupied talking to the brother to actually realise what he has just said, I only realised after entering the masjid.

So this clean shaven asian man, saw 2 bearded bros tagging along with each other, one with an 'alcoholic beverage' in his hand, heading to the masjid to pray. He must of had the shock of his life!


That reminded me of a lecture I once listen too, I think it was given by Suhaib Webb he mentioned a story where him and some other brothers went in to a muslim man shop, this muslim man was selling alcohol, cigarettes, indecent magazines etc
As a da'wah technique, they all went in to the shop and decided to pick up loads of those bad magazine and bottles of alcohol, cigarettes and pork.
They went up to the counter to pay for all the items and the shop owner looked at them in utter shock and upset and said to them you people are religious people why are you buying this kind of stuff, he was really upset.
So they turned around and said this is how we feel for you too my brother, we feel sad when we see you selling this stuff in your shop because as Muslims we shouldn’t be doing this, its wrong

Through this the shop owner realised his mistake, changed his ways and decided to get rid of the haraam goods in his shop – alhamdulilaah

[Abu_Zahid]

That reminded me of a lecture I once listen too, I think it was given by Suhaib Webb he mentioned a story where him and some other brothers went in to a muslim man shop, this muslim man was selling alcohol, cigarettes, indecent magazines etc
As a da'wah technique, they all went in to the shop and decided to pick up loads of those bad magazine and bottles of alcohol, cigarettes and pork.
They went up to the counter to pay for all the items and the shop owner looked at them in utter shock and upset and said to them you people are religious people why are you buying this kind of stuff, he was really upset.
So they turned around and said this is how we feel for you too my brother, we feel sad when we see you selling this stuff in your shop because as Muslims we shouldn’t be doing this, its wrong

Through this the shop owner realised his mistake, changed his ways and decided to get rid of the haraam goods in his shop – alhamdulilaah

Alhamdulillah that is beautiful da'wah technique :D

Really humble and effective mashaAllah..that is the attitude to have :)

[Ibn Adam]

I went to the shop nearby the local masjid to purchase a orange juice drink, however the bottle appeared to look similar to one of them alcohol beverage bottles. I didn't pay any attention to this as I knew it didn't have any percentange of alcohol, but little did I know others soon will.

Yes and this is the real danger.

Marketing companies aren't stupid. They do this intentionally, market similar looking products to act as stepping stones.

It's exactly like the alco-pops that they produce, alcoholic drinks that are extremely fruity and brightly coloured aimed at young people (and directly at children although they'd never admit that). They also produce non-Alcoholic variants of a similar colour and taste as a precursor to those drinks. They either aim to get the person's taste buds inclined towards the product so that they chose the alcoholic version when they venture into that world or they get new customers through mix-ups in shops where they've picked the wrong product of the shelf/fridge by mistake.

You only have to reflect upon an instance in your own life where you've come out of a newsagent with a can of juice and looked down and realised you've bought a "diet" version by mistake to realise how easy it is for them catch people through this tactic.

It's also like the candy cigarettes that circulated when I was a kid, they eventually renamed them candy sticks and removed the red glow look from one end. However, it was a blatant attempt to ease kids into smoking. I can still remember myself as a young kid buying a packet and pretending to smoke them as I ate the packet.

The other one that really bugs me at the moment is this nonsense about "halal" bacon and ham. Now to me, and most of the English speaking world, the words bacon and ham are unique to meats taken from the animal pig. However, in the Middle East and I found a cafe in London doing the same they're starting to produce "beef ham" and "turkey bacon." Just cutting the meat in a particular style to mimic pig meat and then giving it the same name. Often just labling them "ham" or "bacon", and your expected to know or ask "excuse me, is this a pig ham sandwich or a beef ham sandwich?"

It's such a stupid thing to do, why do you need to call beef (i.e. cow meat) by a name unique to pig meat? What's next - "Would you like a fish-lamb kebab sir?" "I'm sorry, I don't understand is it fish or lamb?" "Well it comes from a fish but it's lamb-fish."

Remember that we are commanded not to follow the footsteps of Shaytan (la'natu Allahi 'alayhi) [24:21] (http://quran.islamicnetwork.com/viewverses.php?q=24%3A21-20&langs=257). Shaytan works in steps little by little slowly enticing people in a direction. Personally, I see all these same-as-but-different products as calculated da'wah towards the haram.

[abudurrah]

That reminded me of a lecture I once listen too, I think it was given by Suhaib Webb he mentioned a story where him and some other brothers went in to a muslim man shop, this muslim man was selling alcohol, cigarettes, indecent magazines etc
As a da'wah technique, they all went in to the shop and decided to pick up loads of those bad magazine and bottles of alcohol, cigarettes and pork.
They went up to the counter to pay for all the items and the shop owner looked at them in utter shock and upset and said to them you people are religious people why are you buying this kind of stuff, he was really upset.
So they turned around and said this is how we feel for you too my brother, we feel sad when we see you selling this stuff in your shop because as Muslims we shouldn’t be doing this, its wrong

Through this the shop owner realised his mistake, changed his ways and decided to get rid of the haraam goods in his shop – alhamdulilaah


mashallah, it actually worked

[justabro]

Yes and this is the real danger.

Marketing companies aren't stupid. They do this intentionally, market similar looking products to act as stepping stones.

It's exactly like the alco-pops that they produce, alcoholic drinks that are extremely fruity and brightly coloured aimed at young people (and directly at children although they'd never admit that). They also produce non-Alcoholic variants of a similar colour and taste as a precursor to those drinks. They either aim to get the person's taste buds inclined towards the product so that they chose the alcoholic version when they venture into that world or they get new customers through mix-ups in shops where they've picked the wrong product of the shelf/fridge by mistake.

You only have to reflect upon an instance in your own life where you've come out of a newsagent with a can of juice and looked down and realised you've bought a "diet" version by mistake to realise how easy it is for them catch people through this tactic.

It's also like the candy cigarettes that circulated when I was a kid, they eventually renamed them candy sticks and removed the red glow look from one end. However, it was a blatant attempt to ease kids into smoking. I can still remember myself as a young kid buying a packet and pretending to smoke them as I ate the packet.

The other one that really bugs me at the moment is this nonsense about "halal" bacon and ham. Now to me, and most of the English speaking world, the words bacon and ham are unique to meats taken from the animal pig. However, in the Middle East and I found a cafe in London doing the same they're starting to produce "beef ham" and "turkey bacon." Just cutting the meat in a particular style to mimic pig meat and then giving it the same name. Often just labling them "ham" or "bacon", and your expected to know or ask "excuse me, is this a pig ham sandwich or a beef ham sandwich?"

It's such a stupid thing to do, why do you need to call beef (i.e. cow meat) by a name unique to pig meat? What's next - "Would you like a fish-lamb kebab sir?" "I'm sorry, I don't understand is it fish or lamb?" "Well it comes from a fish but it's lamb-fish."

Remember that we are commanded not to follow the footsteps of Shaytan (la'natu Allahi 'alayhi) [24:21] (http://quran.islamicnetwork.com/viewverses.php?q=24%3A21-20&langs=257). Shaytan works in steps little by little slowly enticing people in a direction. Personally, I see all these same-as-but-different products as calculated da'wah towards the haram.

I dont know about the UK, but turkey bacon has been around here in America for as long back as I can remember. (Although, I'm not disagreeing with you, I feel the same way)

[Ibn Adam]

I can understand the phrase "turkey rashers" more than I can "turkey bacon", especially when the shop often sell it exclusively under the label "bacon" and the word turkey isn't visible.

Then it's up to you to make the effort and ask - 'from which animal does this "bacon" come?' Which a lot of people just aren't going to do because bacon is commonly associated with pigs.

[MaRyAm]

IS THIS TRUE?

Ruling Regarding Animal Rennet in Cheese | Sheikh Salman al-Oadah|



There is no problem using the rennet extracted from animals that were slaughtered according to Islamic Law. However, there is a lot of cheese in our markets coming from non-Muslim countries containing bovine rennet. The question arises as to whether or not we as Muslims can eat this cheese.

Cheese made with rennet extracted from animals that were illegally slaughtered was deemed permissible by Imam Ahmad, as stipulated in al-Mughnî (1/3). Muslims used to eat the cheese brought from the Magians and other unbelievers.

The people of knowledge have two sayings on this matter:

The opinion of the majority is that such rennet is impure, [refer to: al-Qawânîn al-Fiqhiyyah page 121, al-Majmû`2/588, Nihâyat al-Muhtâj1/244, Sharh Muntahâ al-Iradât 1/31, al-Insâf 92/1, al-Iqnâ` 1/1]. They believed the rennet is impure because it comes from an impure source, the stomach of the illegally slaughtered animal. They say it is a liquid material that touched an impure substance and thus becomes impure. Imam al-Nawawî said: "It is part of the animal so it is impure, like all the other parts of the animal."

The other saying is that it is pure. This is the opinion of some of the Companions and successors, `Umar, Salmân al-Fârisî, Talhâ, al-Husayn b. `Ali and others. It is also the opinion of the Hanafî school of thought, one narration from Ahmad, and the opinion of Ibn Taymiyyah, [refer to: Badâ'` al-Sanâ'`1/63, al-Bahr al-Ra'q 1/112, Tabyîn al-Haqa'q 1/26, Ihkâm al-Qur'an by al-Jassâs 1/168, al-Mabsût 24/27-28, Majmû` al-Fatâwa 21/102].

In his book al-Mughnî, Ibn Qudâmah writes: "Someone asked Imam Ahmad about cheese. The Imam replied: 'You can eat it from any source.' But, when asked about the cheese made by the Magians, he said: 'I do not know, but there is an authentic hadîth through al-A`mash that `Amr b. Sharhabîl said that `Umar was asked about cheese and the rennet of illegally slaughtered animal used therein. `Umar instructed him to mention Allah's name upon it and eat it."

They offer the following for evidence:

1. The hadîth related by Ibn Abî Shaybah (5/130) and `Abd al-Razzâq (4/538) through al-A`mash, as mentioned above. The line of transmission of this hadîth is absolutely sound. Imam Ahmad said: "It is the most correct hadîth on the subject."

2. The narration of Ibn Abî Shaybah (5/131) that Talhah used to put the knife over the cheese, mention Allah's name, then cut it and eat it. This also has a sound line of transmission.

3. The narration of Ibn Abî Shaybah through Waqî` that al-Hasan B. `Ali was asked about the cheese. He said: "It is alright, just put the knife to it, mention Allah's name, and eat it." All its narrators are reliable save Jahsh b. Ziyâd.

4. The narration of al-Tirmidhî (1726) and Ibn Mâjah (3367): "We were informed by Ismâ`îl b. Mûsa al-Fazarî through Salmân that the Prophet (peace be upon him) was asked about ghee, cheese and fur. He replied: "The lawful things are the ones mentioned in Allah's book as lawful and the unlawful things are the ones which are mentioned in Allah's book as unlawful, and whatever is not mentioned there, then it is exempted". It is a weak hadîth. Ibn Abî Shaybah mentioned in his book al-Musannaf (8/98) that he was informed by Waqî' through Suwayyid, the servant of Salmân, that he said: "When we won the battle of Madâ'in, Salmân said: 'We had found a basket in which we found four pieces of fine bread, cheese and a knife. Then Salmân took the knife and cut the cheese then he said: "Pronounce Allah's name and eat".' " The line of transmission is weak.

5. They said the milk and the rennet will not become impure after death and whatever is extracted from the living animal becomes as if dead. Therefore, since milk is lawful in such cases, then rennet is lawful.

Ibn Taymiyah said:

Regarding the milk and the rennet of unlawfully slaughtered animals, there are two saying from the scholars; one that it is pure, held by Abû Hanîfah and others, including one saying of Imam Ahmad. The other saying is that it is impure which is the saying of Malik, al-Shafi`î and another opinion of Imam Ahmad.

This disagreement took place regarding the cheese brought from the Magians as their slaughtered animals are totally unlawful by consensus. Still, there are two sayings about their cheese. I believe their cheese is lawful, since the milk of the illegally slaughtered animals is lawful and because the Companions ate from their cheese after the battle of Iraq. This has been authentically narrated to us from that time.

There are some weak narrations that some people from Hijâz disliked it, but they are not reliable. The people of Iraq are more trustworthy than others in this case because they lived there and knew the Magians firsthand. Salmân al-Farisî was the Caliph `Umar's governer in that area and he considered the cheese of the Magians to be lawful.

As for the argument that a liquid will become impure when it touches an impure place, we reply that it is known from Sunnah that the liquid is pure. We also say that even if it touches an impure place that will not matter. Allah says: "From what is within their bodies between excretions and blood we produce for you a drink, milk, pure and agreeable to those who drink it." This is why it is permissible to carry a child while praying despite of what is inside his body. And Allah knows best.

On the strength of the above arguments, I hold the opinion that eating cheese is lawful even if the rennet is extracted from unlawfully slaughtered animals.

And Allah knows best.

Source: http://www.islamtoday.com/showme2.cfm?cat_id=2&sub_cat_id=535#

[Yasir]

Consumer Power...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6673549.stm

[Umm Ahmed]

Alhamdulilaah the change is not going to affect everyone.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/theuae/2007/May/theuae_May636.xml&section=theuae

[Ibn Adam]

It's not going to affect anyone now.

If you read the link Yasir posted above, Masterfoods buckled under the pressure and have withdrawn their plan.

All we need now is some pressure on Bassett's (well actually Cadbury/Schweppes who now own them) because I'd love to munch my way through a packet of their Liquorice Allsorts (http://www.rememberthese.co.uk/images/big/liquorice_allsorts.jpg) or Jelly Babies (http://www.britsuperstore.com/acatalog/Bassetts_Jelly_Babies_215g.jpg).

[Niqaabis]

All we need now is some pressure on Bassett's (well actually Cadbury/Schweppes who now own them) because I'd love to munch my way through a packet of their Liquorice Allsorts (http://www.rememberthese.co.uk/images/big/liquorice_allsorts.jpg) or Jelly Babies (http://www.britsuperstore.com/acatalog/Bassetts_Jelly_Babies_215g.jpg).

In the meanwhile here are some halaal alternatives...

Liqourice Allsorts (http://www.halalcandyuk.com/acatalog/Bagged_Soft_Candy.html)

Jelly Sweets (http://www.halalcandyuk.com/acatalog/Retail_Boxed_Jelly_Sweets.html)

[Ibn Adam]

Jazaki Allahu khayran, that's a new product their doing. I intend to place an order insha' Allah.

[Umm Ahmed]

Wow I haven't eaten Liquorice allsorts for years.

[nomad]

assalamu alaykum

obviously it was a very clever angle for free advertising by masterfoods. Now how many of you rushed out and indulged in a mars after giving them up for 2 weeks. And of course everyone now knows they are suitable for vegetarian. Good playing masterfoods.

salams sarah