How to Reply against those who say...

[JayshAllah]

How does one reply against those who say that Salafis are a modern day innovation that was started by Shaykh Abd al-Wahab [r] ? These people say that the word "Salafi" was never used before him, or that the movement started with him instead of from the Salaf itself, etc.

Was Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah [ra] a Salafi? I know that we do not like to use such terms, but you know what I mean.

From what I understand, Shaykh Abd al-Wahab [r] was only the Mujaddid of the movement, and not the "founder". Is this a correct understanding?

Can someone elaborate on this, especially on how to reply to one who accuses the "Wahabis" of being a modern-day movement without roots in "traditional Islam"?

[salafi brother]

How does one reply against those who say that Salafis are a modern day innovation that was started by Shaykh Abd al-Wahab [r] ? These people say that the word "Salafi" was never used before him, or that the movement started with him instead of from the Salaf itself, etc.

Was Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah [ra] a Salafi? I know that we do not like to use such terms, but you know what I mean.

From what I understand, Shaykh Abd al-Wahab [r] was only the Mujaddid of the movement, and not the "founder". Is this a correct understanding?

Can someone elaborate on this, especially on how to reply to one who accuses the "Wahabis" of being a modern-day movement without roots in "traditional Islam"?

Salaamu Alaykum...

How does one reply against those who say that Salafis are a modern day innovation that was started by Shaykh Abd al-Wahab [r] ? These people say that the word "Salafi" was never used before him, or that the movement started with him instead of from the Salaf itself, etc.

Well tell them to look at Ibn Taymiyyah's works, and they will see a book, though i forget the name, that in the title it says, "As-Salafiyyah", not only that, the prophet sallah allaahu alayhe wa sellam used the word "salaf" when he told to Faatimah (i believe), "Ana Khayrus-Salafi Laki", "I am the best preseccesor for you", so Faatimah came after the prophet and he was her predeccesor, does that make her a Salafiyyah or not? the answer is yes, she is following the example of her Salaf, which makes her a Salafiyyah. If we understand what the salafi aqeedah and manhaj is there wont be any of that, tell them like what shaykh hishaam al-`aarif's one sentence explaining salafiyyah, "Ktaabun wa Sunnah, bi Fahmi Salafi al-Ummah" the book and sunnah with the understanding of the Salaf of the Ummah.

Was Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah [ra] a Salafi? I know that we do not like to use such terms, but you know what I mean.

Ibn Taymiyyah was most definatly a Salafi, did he follow the Sahaabah and the prophet? or did he innovate a new matter into the deen? think about it.

From what I understand, Shaykh Abd al-Wahab [r] was only the Mujaddid of the movement, and not the "founder". Is this a correct understanding?

Ibn Abdul wahhaab, was not a mujaddid of the movement, he was the mujaddid of Tawheed in Saudi, that was mainly the thing, now you could say that he was the mujaddid of the movement becasue thats what he called to.
The actual "movement" was started by Muhammad `Abduh.

Can someone elaborate on this, especially on how to reply to one who accuses the "Wahabis" of being a modern-day movement without roots in "traditional Islam"?

ask them this, DO you believe in Tawheed? actually thats the most idiotic statement made, i mean wahhabism is a revival of the traditional islam, unless they thought that grave worshipping was what the prophet came for!

[Um Abdullah M.]

just for your info akhi, about the term salafi:
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=3808

[salafi brother]

Salaamu `Alaykum

The actual "movement" was started by Muhammad `Abduh.

I mean, the Modern Salafi Movement was started by `Abduh, the actuall movement was started by none other than Rasooullaah, just to clear any confision

[Um Abdullah M.]

and what is this "modern" Salafi movement??

and who is this Muhammad Abduh?
I have heard of the name but don't really know about him

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

Muhammad Abduh has little if anything to do with the way of the Salaf. He was a modernist.

Muhammad ibn 'Abdil-Wahhab was but one of the mujaddids of his time and of the Ummah in general. Others of his time include: al-Amir as-San'ani and al-Imam ash-Shawkani in Yemen, and there were several in India as well, who are sometimes known as "Ahl al-Hadith" (or Ahle Hadis in Urdu).

As for all of the garbage that the people of bid'ah spout about Ibn 'Abdil-Wahhab being a British agent etc., this is self-evidently false, and much has been written on this subject defending the shaykh from that slanderous charge. Ironically, Muhammad Ali Pasha, the Ottoman governor of Egypt who fought the Wahhabis, was documented to be an agent of the French and British, and was congratulated when he defeated the Wahhabis! Not only that, the Wahhabi literature, notably ad-Durar as-Saniyyah, is replete with references to Wahhabi shaykhs calling the people to do jihad against the European Christians who were trying to occupy the Arabian Gulf. And the British used to have a lot of trouble with what they called "the Wahhabi pirates" in the Arabian Gulf, who used to raid their ships.

The biggest problem today is that the word "salafi" has become a rather vague, sometimes "catch-all" term for anyone the ahlul-bid'ah don't like! So much so that it is hard to tell who they're talking about sometimes, because they generalise so much. For instance, one of their writers once referred to Yusuf al-Qaradhawi as the "leading salafi scholar" or something ot that effect. Another blamed Ibn Baz for being responsible for the extremism of Juhayman al-'Utaybi and his group, who rebelled against the Saudi government. Yet Ibn Baz himself denounced this group and their ideas and they likewise denounced him! And the list goes on...

Then the ahlul-bid'ah will bring fables like "Confessions of a British Spy" and so on, but honestly, in the end of the day, most of these allegations of theirs are simply so evidently fake and see-through that it is not worth wasting time writing "refutations" of them.

What makes it all so funny is that some of the main figureheads of the so-called "traditionalist" movement, who are propagating the lie that Ibn 'Abdil-Wahhab was a western agent or spy, are themselves living in western countries, under western patronage, with western support and encoouragement, and are joining ranks with them and calling for "inter-faith dialogue" and "brotherhood of man" etc., and are giving fatwas and judgements that (whether they realise it or not) serve only to encourage the western governments in their struggle to overcome the establishment of Islam on the earth. Examples include Abdul-Hakim Murad (aka Tim Winter), Hamza Yusuf Hanson, Hisham Kabbani, and others.

[JayshAllah]

Some good replies so far. Please keep em coming. The last poster said:

much has been written on this subject defending the shaykh from that slanderous charge.

Well, if much has been written, I'd like to read it Insha-Allah! Sorry, the more I read on this topic from the Salafi side, the better I feel.

[salafi brother]

and what is this "modern" Salafi movement??

and who is this Muhammad Abduh?
I have heard of the name but don't really know about him

Salaamu `Alaykum...

Sister look to "Biography and Mission of Muhammad Ibn `Abdul-Wahhab" By Jalal Abualrub, pgs.96-7, you'll see it, I dont feel like transcribing it. If someone on here has it and feel like doing it, be my guest.

I forgot where i read that, then a brother reminded me, thats why it took a while for me to responde

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

Well, if much has been written, I'd like to read it Insha-Allah! Sorry, the more I read on this topic from the Salafi side, the better I feel.

Most of it is in Arabic of course, only a little of it has been translated into English. But I think Sh. Ibn Baz's and Sh. al-Munajjid's articles sum it all up well. They are somewhere here on this website and forum, I think.