What's up with Hamza Yusuf?

[TN_Cat]

As-salamu alaykum,

I watched a video of him that went on for about an hour and a half. He made some good points hear and there but when it came to the end during the q&A he said "aqeedah is a sickness" "it only takes ten minutes to study it". Then he could not answer a simple question (where is Allah?) and belittled the person who asked it.

I might be wrong in my understanding of what aqeedah means. I thought the word means "what we believe". Allah, his books, messengers (peace be upon them) the day of judgement, qdar, the Angles.
If my understanding is correct how can a person just toss this out the window? I should be an easy person to fool with my limited knowledge of Islam but I suspect Hamza Yusuf is off in the rhubarb.
Ive heard it said that to dislike something the Prophet brought (sallahu alayhe wassalam) is misguidance. Didn't the Prophet bring us aqeedah?

[Abuz Zubair]

He is a really sick person, and I mean by that diseased to the core.

He hardly discusses 'aqida issues head on in most of his lectures. But I recently got hold of his series on Allah's Attributes where he lays it all out on the table.

When I get time I will make my own notes on his statements and publish them. Some of his statements do not even need a comment, such as 'How Buddhism saved Islam', and how sciences developed by cultures conquered by Islam, contributed to Islamic civilisation... In other words, we should view the Hellenistic influence on Islam as Allah's favour and not curse. All this is found in the very first part of the series, so that the audience can swallow with ease what's to come: Aristotelianism.

He is really sick to the core, especially the way he mocks the beliefs of the Salaf, it is disgusting.

[Brother_Mujahid]

I always found him to be someone who talks alot, but says little. All his teenie-bopper followers act like he is deep and profound, but he seems to me to be someone with attention deficet disorder as he must change topics every two minutes.

[C47]

That looser calls himself a scholar but keeps a beard like the french (unless he is unable to keep a full beard ... which i doubt)

Hamza Yusuf = Scholar for Dollar

[abu_ibrahim]

He said something similar in another talk, you can learn the entire Aqeedah in 3 days by memorising 30 lines of poetry in Mauritania.

[Ibn Adam]

He said something on a Da'wah tape to non-Muslims that I remember from the late '90's that first started me to wonder about what he teaches.

I'm paraphrasing but given a year or so I could bring the exact quote. In describing Allah to these non-Muslims he said.

Allah is neither part of His creation nor separate from it and if you ask what does that mean, then the human intellect is like a pin ball machine when it reaches a certain point the tilt comes into effect and stops any progression beyond that point.

[joefso]

He is a really sick person, and I mean by that diseased to the core.

He hardly discusses 'aqida issues head on in most of his lectures. But I recently got hold of his series on Allah's Attributes where he lays it all out on the table.

When I get time I will make my own notes on his statements and publish them. Some of his statements do not even need a comment, such as 'How Buddhism saved Islam', and how sciences developed by cultures conquered by Islam, contributed to Islamic civilisation... In other words, we should view the Hellenistic influence on Islam as Allah's favour and not curse. All this is found in the very first part of the series, so that the audience can swallow with ease what's to come: Aristotelianism.

He is really sick to the core, especially the way he mocks the beliefs of the Salaf, it is disgusting.

That's schoking news, I have the seerah of the Prophet peace be uponhim, and I was quite impressed with how he told everything in detail.

Perhaps you could tell me where I can hear him mocking the salaf? i.e what lecture/article?

Imam Anwar al alwaki, does discuss aqeedah hardly in his lectures, doesn't mean it's wrong.

[Abu Ilyas]

I think it is clear he has an ulterior motive by hiding his Aqida. He wants followers and does not want anyone to label him and therefore damage him.

"I always found him to be someone who talks alot, but says little."

Well put, thats exactly how it is.

But he can make some good points here and there but that does not mean one should learn the deen from him.

Abu Zubair, I think it would be very beneficial if you could make those notes, look forward to reading them.

[joefso]

well, what aqeedah related lectures did he give? I found some lecutres by him, regarding, brotherhood, modern education vs .. , the seven steps of highly effective Muslims, all non-aqeedah related lectures. Same I found this amazing brother, Imam Anwar al awlaki, he has a slight different style in speech. But doesn't everyone? It's just a matter of taste, regarding these lectures. Most of us are muqallid or mutabbi, so is his audience, and that of Imam Anwar al awlaki to. So most of these people won't be able to distinguish right from wrong, either Anwar or Hamza. For the sunni-suffis and pseudo-salafis I have noticed, that most of them have already a opinion on someone if he is not pseudo-salafi or sunni-suffi, which gives a big risk, regarding judging someone, because most of it seems to be coming from emotion.

It's like the story of the three blind man, who each felt a part of a elephant, and all described what they felt, doesn't mean it's wrong, they just felt other parts of the elephant.

[Skillganon]

What is sunn- suffis and pseudo-salafis? The is Sunni and their is a sect that claims to be sunni but are not, hence they are called sufi.
Their only claim to being sunni is they are not shiah.

Their is salafi and if that means following the Quran and the Sunnah on the understanding of the salaf than that is interchangeable with sunni in it's original sense. In it's truest sense salafi would mean a Muslim without heresy.

Back to the topic.

"what aqeedah issue he has give? "

I am suprised that it has not become clear to you now given the topic.

[joefso]

Exactly my point, you make it seem like sufis are bad, while they are not, look at the thread of Shaykh Abdul Qadir jilani. Qadir Jilani was a sufi who followed the path of the salaf.

I think the definitions/meanings innovations are mostly of the same kind, only they distinguished innovation as for example, not eating on the floor or eating with fork. You know how many Saudis eat fromt he table? So they have bid'a categorized not only for issues regarding to ibaadah. You can't say I'm like salaf or sahaba. Today our lives and our outlooks bear little resemblance to theirs. We praise but do not listen to him; we claim to love, but refuse to follow; we claim to believe but lead lives like those who don't. We emphasize what the Companions ignored and ignore what they emphasized.

I was browsing sunnipath dot com mailinglist, and I found Faraz Rabani posting an article(in pdf) regarding bid'a in the Shafi madhab.

[Skillganon]

The issue here is more likely one does not understand biddah.


Where did you get from the Quran and the sunnah that innovation in the deen as not being bad? (The innovation is what distinguish sufism not to mention other sects).

This raises a important isssue that one does not understand innovation properly.

Since I don't know much about Abdul Qadir Jilani, I will leave it to others to answer properly.

Anyway you got this conundrum. Either admit

1. Abdul Qadir Jilani was sufi (innovation) or some innovation thus he was not following the path of salaf.

2. That he was not a sufi but was on the way of salaf.
(not taking into account whether he went to certain excess)

[joefso]

Sufism, is not a innovation, Shaykh Ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyya wrote about it, with loads of positive arguments. Regarding the bid'a I was talking about, http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EMhKRrrkBbSr949JuDAgIhp3YYxDeKWPFyPqmindpMKP6arNBB kTCwoHm8mskr9DI2wTggZzeae9XWIsEUc2cCvWRT6U7oGhIrj-xYM0nhtRv4Mz5Easjkjx/Sunni%20Definition%20of%20Bid%60a%20as%20Either%20 Good%20or%20Bad.pdf

Regarding Shaykh Abdul Qadir jilani, check islam-qa, and check this sub-forum, you will notice, that he was a sufi, and followed the path of salaf.

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

I saw on an advertisement on the Arabic MBC channel for the show "ar-Rihlah" Hamza Yusuf sitting in a car and saying: "Ra'aytu akthara ahlil-jannah an-nisa'".

Translation: "I have seen that the majority of the people of Jannah are the women."

Where did he get that information from, and how did he work that one out? I thought the hadith of the Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam, implied the opposite...

[joefso]

I saw on an advertisement on the Arabic MBC channel for the show "ar-Rihlah" Hamza Yusuf sitting in a car and saying: "Ra'aytu akthara ahlil-jannah an-nisa'".

Translation: "I have seen that the majority of the people of Jannah are the women."

Where did he get that information from, and how did he work that one out? I thought the hadith of the Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam, implied the opposite...

If he said that, auzo billah

[waziri]

He is coming to the uk to teach aqeeda at tahawia soon lol, and like a friend of mine said to learn aqeeda from him would be like trying to learn about honesty in polotics from tony blair.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Hamza Yusuf teaching aqidah! Allah'mustahn!

[SalahudinAbdullah]

Bismillah Aslaum Aliekum Subhan Allah He gave a talk once where he said the TRUE Martyrs, ON 9/11 were the New York Fire Fighters! Now he saying Aqeedah in 10mintues! LoL He need to make Taubah to Allah, plus study Aqeedah again (like a couple of years)

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

He is coming to the uk to teach aqeeda at tahawia soon lol, and like a friend of mine said to learn aqeeda from him would be like trying to learn about honesty in polotics from tony blair.

Coming all the way to UK for a 10 minute lecture?

[waziri]

Coming all the way to UK for a 10 minute lecture?

lol,yeah and he's charging ten pounds a head so that works out at a pound per person per miniute.


A friend told me that he said something that really shocked him(I know hanson does it all the time),in a lecture he said that in madina in the early day's of islam women would walk around bare breasted.

[joefso]

Could be true, I heard once in a lecture, that the jahil arabs would make tawwaf naked.

[suhail]

Assalaam Alykum,

That is not totally true brother joesfo. The thing about arabs making tawaf naked is before the time of Islam and then at the time of the prophet it was prohibited to do that.

When Hamza yusuf is talking about bare breasted women in madina it is in the time of Umar Bin Khattab thats what i guess he was referring too. I am not sure how correct is that.

Regarding sufism being bad then better check out some thread about it in this same forum. Ibn Tayamiyyah did praise some things but that had nothing to do with sufism but with the Zuhd that the salaf did. Sufism contains tons of other things which are clear innovation. Regarding Shakh Abdul Qadir Jilani then yes he was a very pious man and great scholar but he had his share of mistakes and i recall Abuz Zubair talking about some books where some scholars criticized him about stuff. May be Abu Zubair or someone who knows can shed more light on this subject.

Jazakallah Khair
Suhail

[Intoodeep]

A friend told me that he said something that really shocked him(I know hanson does it all the time),in a lecture he said that in madina in the early day's of islam women would walk around bare breasted.

it true, but they were slave women. Hijab is not compulsory on the kuffar !!!

btw His latest book on aqeeda Tahawiyyah had a recommendation for it by shaykh Suhaib Hasan ! But that was before it was released, now it has been released it has mysteriously disappeared..

[joefso]

Wa'alaykoem assalaamu,


BarakAllaahoe fiek for your reply. If Hamza Yusuf claims it was in the time of Umar ibn Kathaab (RA), then he must bring the proof otherwise ... la hawla wa la quwwata illa billah.


Regarding, Ibn Taymiyya, didn't he call him Our shaykh? And didn't he call Imam Ahmad(RA) our Imam? He even put on the cloak of Qadir Jilani. I read on islam-qa that abdul qadir jilani made some mistakes,(according to whom or what mistake, it wasn't mentioned), but they said, his mistakes where nothing compared to what he achieved. Not to mention I read on livingislam, that Ibn Taymiyya said his excuse was his love of Allah. Ibn Taymiyya wrote a whole sharh on futuh al gaib, so I read. No doubt that sufis have gone astray, but what about sufism explicitly? According to what I read, 'zuhd', 'taqwa' & 'wara'. When it developed, just like islam and iman, this developed into fully fledged science, and it got the name ilm al-tassawuf.


Djazak Allaah && wa'alykoem assalaamu

[ykhan]

Coming all the way to UK for a 10 minute lecture?

HA HA..!

Dat's funny..!

Have you seen the pictures of Mr Hanson with Mr Bush ??

Ajeeb..!

[qadri]

as salaamu 'alaikum.

I am no big fan of Hamza Yusuf but give the man his due. He did some good work also. anyway, like any other person he has good & bad side.

He is less fierce against the Sunni Athari Creed than his colleagues like Muhammad Yacoubi , Nuh Keller , Abdal Hakim Murad.

May Allah guide these people to accept the truth.

It is amazing how they get promoted just in few years. Hamza Yusuf just like Faraz Rabbani started as Hamza Yusuf then became brother Hamza Yusuf then became sidi Hamza Yusuf and now shaykh Hamza Yusuf.

Anyway, he is even very controversial amongst the Asharites & Maturidites. The Hanafi Deobandis don't seem to accept his manhaj and way of Dawah and some other groups like the Asharite Murabitun.

As Abu Zubair mentioned that his lectures and speeches don't contain any substantial material...it is only good for new muslims...he is more a motivational scholars for born again muslims...but academically speaking...well...i don't know if he has any scholarly book or articles...

I am not sure if Hamza Yusuf can be considered a scholar even... he was refuted after 9/11 by some maliki scholar by the name of Muhammad Sharif , whose article/fatwa against Hamza Yusuf was circulated on the internet.


Wallahu Alam.
Abu Turab Ali Rida

[Abuz Zubair]

Well... I always try my best to be balanced with respect to all, and I guess it is my balanced view of him, after having heard his lectures more than 5 yrs ago, plus his recent series on 'Aqida, that he is an extremely sick person. His Aqida series really expose him.

Before I had heard the Aqida series, I was only exposed to his other general tapes and I found them to be very emotional but empty of any substance. In nearly all his talks he just goes of on a tangent. None of his talks are structured or cohesive. As if he just goes on to the stage and starts singing blues, and there you go, he has captured the audience.

[waziri]

it true, but they were slave women. Hijab is not compulsory on the kuffar !!!

Yeah but they never went around bare breasted did they.Also were the slave women kuffar?I know that they were not allowed to cover up like the free believing women but I assumed they were muslim.Never the less to say any woman walked around bare breasted is just crazy.

[TN_Cat]

As-salamu alaykum,

What worries me about him, and I pray that I am wrong is that eventually a cult like mentality could develop as a result of his teachings that could culminate in a disaster. I like to rail against Western systems as much as the next person but I cant help but hear a bit of Rev. Jim Jones in his speech. More precisely the earlier sermons of Jim Jones where he spoke of racial equality and care for the poor and elderly. It was all based on deviant Christian theology (that has it's flaws to start with) mixed with man made ideologies like socialism. I fear Hamza Yusuf is treading such a path but his talks are so ambiguous, and my Islamic learning still limited that it's hard for me to find any real flaws in his teachings just yet. His rejection of all of aqeedah was a big red flag. That just seemed to me like someone saying 'I love the forest but hate the trees'.
I thought the only people that spoke against him were people like Daniel Pipes. Pipes's rants are filled with dishonesty and clever deceptions to a point where his reputation is lower that snake urine even amongst non-Muslims.
People like Pipes should be praising Hamza Yusuf. If Hamza's following ends as badly as I think it might, it could cause problems for all the Muslims hear in the States. It worries me.

wassalam,

[Intoodeep]

Yeah but they never went around bare breasted did they

Well i have heard they did and also did Umar al-Khattab give an order that the Christian women of Syria lift up their dresses to distinguish themselves from the muslim women?? Someone correct me if im wrong.

We have a lot to learn about the rights of non-muslims - they were even allowed to brew and sell alcohol amoungst themselves during the Khilafah Rashidah.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

after having heard his lectures more than 5 yrs ago, plus his recent series on 'Aqida,


man were you bored or something?

well i have to say the 2 best talks i have heard from him, real heart softners was abu bakr and bravery and the 2 short ones on the Rasul(Sallahu 'alayhi was-sallam) especially the one where he discusses the sharh of the hadith of Imaam Ali(KAW) describing the beloved Rasul(Sallahu 'alayhi was-sallam) to his son....man that was a beautiful narration found in ash-shifa of al-Qadi 'iyaad(rahimahullah)

[Abuz Zubair]

man were you bored or something?

Bored?! For years I have been looking for HY lecture where he spills the beans! And I finally got it!

Yeah... I remember his Abu Bakr lecture, too... it really put me under a spell. I must admit, it was a really heart softening lecture about Abu Bakr... and this is what captures his audience, after which it becomes a lot easier for him to inject his intellectual and spiritual disease into people's hearts.

[abu imaan an-nepalee]

man you got to hear the one about the Rasul(Sallahu 'alayhi was-sallam) i kept it because it is that good. I still got a few of his tapes, i've also recorded over other.......but nothing special.....just the weekly saturday halaqa by ht! lol!

[Brother_Mujahid]

His "War and Peace" lecture after 9/11 was the most mind-numbing dribble I've ever heard. He only quoted Qur'an and Sunnah 3 or 4 times. The rest of it was all "Shakespeare said in Henry IV ...", "Tacitus said ...", blah, blah, blah, etc. He is a shallow man for shallow-minded people.

[Burning Candle]

Assalamualaikum

You should check out his old pre-9/11 stuff. Subhan'Allah!! Such a 180 degree turn. Most of it was taken off the web in recent years after people were threatened with breaching copyright laws but I am sure you can still get them somewhere.

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

It is true that in the early days of al-Islam up to the time of al-Imam Malik that slave women were walking around in al-Madinah bare-breasted. This is well-known and confirmed in many sources.

However, before everyone starts blowing their tops and getting red-faced, perhaps they should know that according to the shari'ah (and this might surprise some of you), the 'awrah for a slave woman - even a Muslim slave woman - is only from her navel to her knees.

And the practice of the slave-women going around bare-breasted, although it was common, was however strongly disapproved of by the 'ulama. Read this quote from "Kitab al-Jami'" of al-Imam Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani al-Maliki (died 386 AH):

"He (i.e. al-Imam Malik ibn Anas) strongly disapproved of the behaviour of the slave women of al-Madinah in going out uncovered above the lower garment. He said: "I have spoken to the sultan about it, but I have not received a reply." He said: "Beat slave women if they do that.""

So yes it did happen. And it was tolerated by many people because the 'awrah of the slave woman is the same as that of a man. But it was disapproved of by the people of knowledge for obvious reasons which I am sure any normal man would understand.

[Umm Ahmed]

But they are believing women , even if they are slaves , in the Quran Allaah adresses the believers to cover, to pray to lower their gazes ect .
The Phrophet (saw) corrected the girl who was not covered properly, surely from that at the time of the Phrophet women would not be going around bare breasted ?

I cant comprehend barebreasted muslimah's


And it was tolerated by many people because the 'awrah of the slave woman is the same as that of a man

Is there a reference for this please ?

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

But they are believing women , even if they are slaves , in the Quran Allaah adresses the believers to cover, to pray to lower their gazes ect .
The Phrophet (saw) corrected the girl who was not covered properly, surely from that at the time of the Phrophet women would not be going around bare breasted ?

I cant comprehend barebreasted muslimah's

That's what I said, many of you would find that information a bit difficult to digest!

Anyway, even if they are both believing women, however there are many differences in rulings between free people and slaves (of both genders). Sometimes an ayah says something general, but it can be made specific by other adillah. For example, Allah says in surat al-jumu'ah (the meaning): "O you who believe! When the call is made to the prayer on yawm al-jumu'ah, then hasten therto and leave trade..."

However, it is agreed upon that Jumu'ah is not wajib on Muslim slaves, even if they are male. And there are many other kinds of examples like this.

And in fact, in one of the ayat of al-hijab, the reason for hijab is given as "an yu'rafna": "so that they may be known", i.e. to distinguish them from slave women, according to a group of the mufassirun. So the ayah is talking about free believing women in particular, and not slave believing women.

Is there a reference for this please ?

Sister! It is well-known, and it is mentioned in basically all of the fiqh books, and agreed upon by most of the scholars. If I were to give references, I would be here all week! If you know Arabic, then it will not be hard for you at all to look it up in classical books of fiqh etc. on Arabic book sites on the internet in sha' Allah. If not, then you perhaps only have English references, and for reasons of western "political correctness", references to such things in translated material might be hard (though not impossible) to find!

[Umm Ahmed]

I'm sorry its the first time I am reading this , thats why I asked here first and foremost . JazakAllaahu Khayran I will try to search and read InshaAllaah.

[Abuz Zubair]

There is a difference between define what is or is not 'Awrah and deciding what should or should not be covered in front of others.

Even if we were to argue that the 'awrah of a slave woman is just between the navel and the knees (which, if my memory serves me correct, has no strong textual basis), it is still forbidden for her to expose her ornaments to other men, include breasts. Especially when we know that Hijab was ordained to minimise the fitna on the streets, and not just to distinguish between free and slave women.

Likewise, what some of the fuqaha say that the 'awrah of a woman in front of another woman is from the navel to the knees... even if some say that, it doesn't mean that the sisters dress scantly on wedding parties where virtually everything is showing! Some of them only say that because sometimes a woman must feed her baby in front of other women, i.e. for a necessity. Besides, as is the case with the salve women, I don't know if there are authentic legal proofs dictating the 'awrah of a woman in front of another woman being navel to knees.

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

Jazakallahu khayran brother Abuz-Zubayr for pointing that out... I had meant to explain that there is a difference between what is "technically" (for want of a better word) 'awrah, and what should customarily be covered in front of others.

So even if we take the view that the slave woman's 'awrah is the same as a man, however that doesn't mean that it's OK for her to walk around bare-breasted. I.e. she should wear something extra, and not just the "bare minimum".

As for the 'awrah of a slave woman being between the navel and knees, I thought that this was the majority position? I understand it is the madhhab of the Hanabilah. Yes there is some khilaf about it, as mentioned in al-Mughni. Also, I remember that in al-Ikhtiyarat, Ibn Taymiyyah is quoted as disapproving of those who claimed that the madhhab was that the slave woman's 'awrah is only her two private parts (!).

Anyway, jazakallahu khayran brother Abuz Zubayr for the clarification.

[waziri]

Asalamualaykum,

Akhi Abu Zubair can you tell us if slave women were indeed walking around half naked(bare breasted)in madina?

wasalam

[JayshAllah]

Although I disagree with many of his views, I don't think we should mock the scholars, Wallahu Aalim.

[Abuz Zubair]

Asalamualaykum,

Akhi Abu Zubair can you tell us if slave women were indeed walking around half naked(bare breasted)in madina?

wasalam
Allahu Alam... I haven't come across anything in Arabic that suggests anything about bare-breasted women. Bosoms, yes... but that refers to the upper chest and not breasts...

[moubeen]

I remember being shocked with awe in the 1st lecture i heard of his "Dajjal and the new world order". The strange thing after all these years i only really remember some stupid quotes rather than any great benefit from the sunnah. I remember one lecture where he mentions Burt and Ernie from sesamnea street and said they promoted homosexuality etc... another quote i remeber was when he taslked about people of intellect - he mentioned abu bakr al-baqallani (the first i had heard of the name at the time) - he mentioned an incident where the disbeleivers made an archway on the way to the king so when al-baqallani entered he would bow before the leader....but he was so intelligent that he went in backwards...showing his backside....i also remeber the abu bakr and bravery lecture...yes i remeber he cries in the end...it was a heart softner for sure... at the time i used to listen to him i didn't really understand what he would imply in his answers or lectures - only later i found a good proportion of what he said was against todays "salafis".

[Skillganon]

Well here is something interesting.

I am sure some of you have come across this already:

http://www.allaahuakbar.net/individual_callers/hamza_yusuf/hamza_yusuf_where_did_he_go_wrong.htm

[salafi brother]

Although I disagree with many of his views, I don't think we should mock the scholars, Wallahu Aalim.

Salaamu `Alaykum

Bro, you have the wierdest ideas about someone being deviant and taking from him, if Qardawi isnt considred a scholar to the scholars (he was called 'Shaykh' by Shaykh Abu Ishaaq al-Huwaynee becasue there is a big ae difference between the two, and shaykh abu ishaaq pointed that out), then what makes you think that Hamza Yusuf is one? the only 'formal' Islaamic education that he has that im aware of is a couple of 'Scholarly Training Courses.' other than that i dont know of anything.

Brother, the guy is an Asharee, what is there to doubt abuot that?

[JayshAllah]

Salaamu `Alaykum

Bro, you have the wierdest ideas about someone being deviant and taking from him, if Qardawi isnt considred a scholar to the scholars (he was called 'Shaykh' by Shaykh Abu Ishaaq al-Huwaynee becasue there is a big ae difference between the two, and shaykh abu ishaaq pointed that out), then what makes you think that Hamza Yusuf is one? the only 'formal' Islaamic education that he has that im aware of is a couple of 'Scholarly Training Courses.' other than that i dont know of anything.

Brother, the guy is an Asharee, what is there to doubt abuot that?

I'm still learning. Just joined Team Salafi recently. Not really used to all the condemnations of "learned people." It's a bit of a turn-off right now, but again, I am still learning.

[Skillganon]

I'm still learning. Just joined Team Salafi recently. Not really used to all the condemnations of "learned people." It's a bit of a turn-off right now, but again, I am still learning.

Assalamu alaikum wr wb bro

It's not a habitual thing to condemn people left an right. Their is lot of scholarly advise and talk that goes on between people like Hamza and other scholars.

After a long admonishment and advice they than decide to warn people of the reality of it, otherwise it's like letting people be led astray and not lifting a finger to do something.

You will notice no one here is making takfeer...but only made apparent what is already apparent i.e. deviancy.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

I'm still learning. Just joined Team Salafi recently. Not really used to all the condemnations of "learned people." It's a bit of a turn-off right now, but again, I am still learning.

as salaamu alaykum,

First off akhi you say you joined team Salafi. You are making yourself into a sect. Follow the Quran andsunnah with the understanding of the Salaf. Its as simple as that. Its not 'team salafi' etc... Lest we disobey the Quran and break off into sects each rejoicing at what they have.


'learned people' - how many times have we heard that nuh ha mim keller is a learned individual? The sufis will say even arabs flock to this man to learn from him. Yet how much deviancy is uttered from this man? Just look at dispraise of al hawwa prepaired by dr. salih where he exposes the books that nuh ha mim keller praised and the individuals he praised and the ashari aqidah he holds onto and calls to.

Hamza yusuf so similar. This man is corrupted and it is noted in his lectures. Just because he can offer some lectures and deliver them with good messages doesnt mean we should try to go through his tapes and CD's to find which ones are beneficial. For our ahwaa could call us to accepting some of the other things he calls to (such as his deviations) that are beautified through his speech and is called 'traditional islaam' to attrack the youth.

We must save ourselves from this. That is why Ulama do warn about individual. A man lets say he is upon a false aqidah. He goes to the masajid. Does his salah and leaves. This man is not to be warned against for he does not call people to his aqidah (though a learned person should try to advise him).

However if he stood up and called people to his deviation then that person is to be warned against and exposed (which some assume is backbiting). This saves the ummah from the fitnah of that individual in bringing false ideas and wrapping them around in soothing qoutes and misrepresentation of texts of al islaam.

Allaahu alim

wasalaam

-mustafa

[Intoodeep]

All these warnings but whose listening? Hamza Yusufs UK tour to promote his new kitab on Aqeeda is now completely sold out, look at the registration details here: http://tahawiyya.com/

[TN_Cat]

All these warnings but whose listening? Hamza Yusufs UK tour to promote his new kitab on Aqeeda is now completely sold out, look at the registration details here: http://tahawiyya.com/

As-salamulaykum,

To them, their deen and to me mine.

How do you say it in Arabic????

wala antuoom abidonan ma abudu lakum deedakum wali deen

[knowrass]

As-salamulaykum,

To them, their deen and to me mine.

How do you say it in Arabic????

wala antuoom abidonan ma abudu lakum deedakum wali deen

"to you your deen and to me mine" is:

lakum deenukum wa leeyya deen.

[TN_Cat]

As-salamu'alaykum,

I found this on allahuakbar.net and thought it was interesting.


By Yusuf Estes
Yusuf Estes was a Christian priest who entered Islam and has since worked to promote it. He has studied and spread the message of Islam all over the US and in many foreign countries. He is currently a Muslim chaplain for federal Institutions and prisons. He is also a Muslim delegate to the UN Interfaith conference for religious leaders. We are very grateful for his comments regarding our struggle to promote the true Islam.

He like Hamza Yusuf entered into Islam after being introduced to it. He has sat with Hamza Yusuf on many occasions and has visited his institute as well. Below are some emails he sent out after reading emails from other Brothers.

Message: 1

Subject: Hamza Yusuf - Where did he go wrong? (And why didn't I say something sooner?)
From: Sheikh Yusuf Estes ( sheikyusuf@aol.com )
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 01:19:39 EDT

Bismillah Rahman Raheem
As-Salam Alaykum:
Re: Hamza Yusuf and his new teachings

I ask Allah to Forgive me and protect me from the evil one and from the evil within myself. I ask all of the brothers and sisters to pray for me that I be rightly guided in the future and forgive me for keeping silent so long on a very serious issue. For more than one year I have wrestled with the notion of whether or not to expose one of our scholars in Islam here in America for some very serious deviation in his teachings. In my defence, I thought perhaps he would come to his senses or that possibly myself or someone could have the opportunity to sit with him and correct him in these areas. I was wrong. Recently it has escalated to the extent that he is misquoting the Quran, denying certain verses, presenting wrong hadeeth and in general showing Islam in the wrong light. And to make matters worse, he is doing it on prime time television. Due to his fame and access to the media, this now presents a great problem for all of us.

This letter is in regard to the teachings and understandings of Hamza Yusuf. It is very difficult to write due to the sensitivity of the subject and the respect for all our scholars in Islam today. We are forced to mention certain things about the beliefs of one of our leaders in the USA and his teachings. In the process however, we must do so in the most delicate manner so as not to cause further separation and division in the Muslim community when this is definitely not the time to divide ourselves up. Even so, it is all the more important to say what I have to say about our brother Hamza's understandings and teachings and the way that he is misrepresenting us as Muslims to the media and to the non-Muslims in general. The hard part is to do so with the most consideration for him and for all those who have been following him.

First of all, I am not the first one to offer this information regarding some of the beliefs held or at least promoted by Hamza Yusuf. In fact, I may be guilty of holding back information all too long, for the sake of trying to keep the ummah together on the issue of the our brother Hamza Yusuf in California. If you have not heard of him, you should. He is a good speaker and knows how to hold the attention of a crowd. He has been promoted heavily in the past by well known Muslim organizations like: ISNA; ICNA; Sound Vision and others. He is an American who chose to come to Islam and then went to study in another country to learn more about Arabic and Islam. He has worked hard and produced a large following.

For several years people have been asking me about the rumors regarding Hamza Yusuf and his "Zaytunna Institute." I have tried to avoid saying anything in a way that would be considered backbiting or slanderous. Yet, I have had complaints from some of those who actually were in his community studying under his tutelage. I took the opportunity over a year ago to go out to California and visit him, at the request of those who were commenting on the "strange" things that bothered them. After my visit I was convinced that there was a problem, but I did not feel that the best way to handle the situation was to publicly "blow the whistle" on him. I know that the Muslims today have a tendency to overreact and often they will turn against the one trying to help in the matter, out of their ignorance of Islam's teachings on these types of issues.

It is all too easy to point the finger at someone who has said or done something that appears against the principles of Islam and call them misguided. And worse, these days anyone can be called a "kafar" (disbeliever) just for saying the someone else is not following Islam correctly.

Additionally, a factor came into play that I really did not want to upset. That is that so many people (including our own family) love the audios and videos that Shaikh Hamza has produced. If you realize that this is the kind of thing which helps keep Muslims together, then you must also realize that any criticism could hurt feelings and cause ruffled feathers amongst the ummah. There certain video and audio producers and distributors who are making a lot of money from the sale of Hamza's tapes and they have been notified on no uncertain terms that there are problems with Hamza's Manhaj (methodology) to say the least. They refused to do anything about it or even suggest anything was wrong. Why? Some have accused them of turning a blind eye to truth in favor of the money they make on Hamza's tapes. They couple this with the fact that these same distributors also offer tapes with music on them. I don't think that is fair, however.

Let me now come to the main point. While investigating charges leveled at Shaikh Hamza, I personally stood in his Zaytunna Institute in California and watched as Shaikh Muhammad Yaqubi from Syria was conducting a class in Sufi Dhikr. For hours his students sat there on the floor rocking back and forth saying only: "Allah. Allah. Allah." Over and over again. One of the complaints from a student was that a Shaikh at Zaytunna Institute was forcing them to do hundreds of different Dhikrs everyday. So much so, that they were not able to complete their daily chores, but if they tried to stop a shaytan would start beating them. I advised them to stop immediately and get away from anything dealing with the shaytan. Keep in mind this is not Hamza, but rather someone working in his "institute."

My other experiences with Hamza have shown me that he has a tendency toward exaggerating the meanings of words, especially when it comes to discussing issues of any type. I have heard him time and again give the wrong meanings to words and then go off on tangents trying to prove up some point that just is not there. I recall one instance when I offered him some scented oil and he pulled away and then said he needed to smell it first. After smelling it, he began to tell those gathering around that actually from the Sunnah he was able to understand that smells provided cures for diseases. He then mistranslated the word for fragrance (at-teeb) to be related to the word for doctor and then derived from that the meaning of prescription and then cure. From there he took off on a non-Muslim expert on scents and fragrances used for cures and began explaining that the plants have to be grown organically for them to still have the affect that they once had in the past.
The relevance of the whole situation is that many people in the West have come to regard Hamza as a scholar of Islam. I don't think that he is trying to promote himself so much as a scholar but it is possible that he may just be trying to promote his understandings of different words. But in view of the recent increased attention and focus on all Muslims and especially our leaders, we are forced to come forward and clarify what is the true Islam and who are the true scholars.. We have to be up front and say what needs to be said, without fear of criticism from others.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Message: 2

From: Sheikh Yusuf Estes ( sheikyusuf@aol.com )
To: (ADDRESS REMOVED) Someone who had complained about his first email
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 3:09 AM
Subject: May Allah forgive our mistakes, ameen. re: Article on Hamza Yousef

Bismillah Rahman Raheem
Salam Alaykum dear brother in Islam:

First, I begin by saying thank you for taking the time to write to me directly. I am amazed that someone criticized me to another person behind my back, for having criticized someone else, even though it was according to the teachings of Islam.

Also, up front we must say that no one is calling anyone else a nonbeliever (kafr). This all came about as an effort to clarify the correct teachings of Islam to many, including Muslims, who are very confused and concerned about what Islam does actually teach.

Before I begin, there is something that I should mention in all candidness. The organizations that I represent are not behind me in making these statements, at least they are not going to admit it publicly.

Additionally, the critique that was emailed out did not originate with me. Someone else with more knowledge and courage did a very through job on it and then forwarded it out and put in on the Internet. I did not take permission to reveal their identity, nor do I feel that it is necessary to disclose that information. If people want to be angry with me, so be it. At least it will not tear down years of work of a hard working scholar of Islam. By showing the identity what would be the benefit? Then the two scholars [Hamza & the other] may start to be against each other and divide the people up even further. If the whole matter stops at me, then there is actually very little loss. Right?

After all, who am I? I am just a brother who came to Islam some years ago, that goes around trying to bring others to Islam. I am merely a concerned Muslim who wants to do what Allah has ordered and what has been established by our righteous predecessors in Islam. If I am wrong, then I need to be shown proof from Quran and Sunnah regarding the matter in order to correct my mistakes and also to be able to go back to Allah in humility and beg for His Forgiveness.

Now to begin, inshallah. I love you for the sake of Allah. I pray that Allah Guide us both to truth and forgive any mistakes, ameen. I have been criticized for the way the brother treated the subject of Hamza Yusuf's comments on television as being "fitnah." But there is a lot of truth in what he said. He definitely used the right word: "fitnah." -- This word is particularly used in Islam to mean the things which could take someone out of Islam. It is the same word that Allah used when He told us that our wives, children, property and so on would all be "fitnah" [hard trials] for us.

The predictions of our beloved prophet, peace be upon him, are coming true faster than pearls fallen from a broken neckless.

Consider that he told us in the Last Days that the true scholars would be taken away and ignorance would be everywhere and the people without knowledge would be perceived as people with knowledge.

All of this is of course a test for all of us. Consider the recent events and how Muslims around the world are responding:
Afghanis blew up Buddhist statues -- what was our response?
Suicide bombers went into gatherings of Jews in Palestine -- what did we say?
Attacks came against America -- the blame went to Muslims immediately -- what did we do?
America is now destroying Muslim property, Muslim lives and thousands are homeless and dying as a result -- what are we doing?
And certain individuals are promoting their distorted views of Islam, while raising themselves to be close to those who are doing these things. What would you like me to say?
I will not apologize for being a Muslim. Nor will I apologize for what Muslims have NOT DONE. Additionally I refuse to back down from the fact that Islam is the only valid answer to the problems facing our world today. We must stand up now before it is too late. Mark my words. This is not a time to play and think that things are going to go back to "normal" for the Muslims in this or any other country. Allah has made it clear for us. Now we must carry this message or suffer the real consequences.

I have fallen under criticism for more than one year because I have not spoken out about what I know on this issue. I was trying to use the time to do exactly what you have said. Many others have expressed concerns over these same matters. I delayed for more than one year saying anything publicly.

I regret only that we did not move earlier on this subject. You see this has been well known to a number of us here in the states as well as abroad. Hamza has totally disregarded our efforts to speak to him on these or any subjects. He immediately begins to give lectures in the middle of discussions and goes off on definitions of words that have no meaning whatsoever to the conversation. (and they are incorrect in meaning as well).
I met with him a year ago in July at his place in California. [he ignored me]
I sat next to him in a very important meeting of imams for America in Chicago last year at ISNA. [he talked over me - and everyone else]
And then again I spoke with him at the ISNA Conference in Chicago. [he had his own agenda -- which included publicly attacking the belief of the Salaf as Saleeh (The companions and rightly guided early generations of Muslims) in the form of saying something twisted about "Wahabees" in his main lecture to thousands.]

I have referred new Muslims to his "Zaytunna Institute" only to find that they were not being taught Islam at all, they were being forced into doing "Sufi Dhikr." One lady complained to me over the phone and then when I went out there she told me that the shaytan were punishing her for not obeying the head "Shaikh" at Zaytunna. (This was Muhammad Yaqubi from Syria - who happens to be one of the muftis of the Shadaleyah Tareeqah). I personally went in and found his followers sitting on the floor reciting the word "Allah" over and over again for hours without stopping. Their eyes were closed and they were swaying back and forth as in a trance. This is not the proper way to introduce people to Islam.

When people begin learning "Islam" from these types it is very difficult for them to simply break away. Some are afraid that the jinn will bother them. Others think that the dead shaikhs have some mystical powers. The list goes on.

We have only produced exactly what he has said on the most important occasion of trying to bring about a better understanding of what Islam is all about. I realize that all of us, especially me make mistakes in our presentations. Sometimes, like last Sunday, I put things in the wrong order and loose valuable time and even the attention of some of the listeners. I ask Allah to forgive me for that. But when it comes to the material that is presented, if it is not in conjunction with what the Quran and the Sunnah teach, what would you suggest?

Would you accept that someone says something to a non-Muslim about the Quran that can open doors to huge attacks against Islam for no reason?

Is it right to sit silent while someone is making our Deen appear to have mistakes in it?
In fact, that is why I have been criticized so heavily in the recent weeks. I had received admonition during the summer just before leaving for Egypt from some of our brothers who study at one of our Islamic institutes in Virginia. They insisted that we begin exposing Hamza's institute before he did his last big nationwide drive for enrollment. But I thought I should wait a little longer. Now look what has happened.
There are others involved in this "Sufi" movement as well. I have not sat with them personally nor have they corresponded with me. However, I can assure you that the teachings coming from their sources have serious errors in them and could even be considered leading out of Islam completely.
All this time, this groups such as "sufees" And "Shiites" and "Nation of Islam" and "Ahmadiyyans" and "Rastafarians" and "Moorish Science Temple" and "Ansar Allah" and "Five Percenters" and "Submitters International" are actually doing the thing that you are complaining against me: They are dividing up the Muslims through their various cults and tareeqahs. We ask everyone to come together and unify according to what Allah has ordered us in the first place, and that is to unify under the Quran and the Sunnah.
Thank you again for coming straight to me with this subject. If I chose to reveal the topic, I will conceal your identity, inshaallah.

Salam Alaykum wa Rahmatulah,
Your brother in Islam,
Yusuf

[joefso]

yusuf estes was not a priest.

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

yusuf estes was not a priest.

What was he then?

[joefso]

He worked for over 30 years with his father on entertainment programs, shows and attractions. Read his bio.. .

[Umm Ahmed]

http://www.islamicinvitationcentre.com/speakers/Yusuf_Estes.html

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

Yes, you're right, he was not a priest as such. He was a preacher, which is like what we would call a da'iyah. His father was an ordained minister (which is similar to a priest, if i'm not mistaken).

[Umm Ahmed]

Christians usually call their priests ministers , and priests are what catholics call ministers. The article said he was the musical minister what ever that means.

[Brother_Mujahid]

What was he then?

Priest is usually used to refer to clergy in the Roman Catholic church. Yusuf Estes was a Protestant and I believe he was a prison chaplin or some such thing.

[Farhan]

Assalaamu alaikum

I'm no Hamza Yusuf fan myself, but I once read something on Yusuf Estes' site "Islamalways.com" which is now "Islamnewsroom.com" that a few of his words in those letters have been distorted and some he had not said at all.

I just did a quick search on his site now but didn't find anything, can anyone confirm whether this is true or not?

[Skillganon]

I think it is best to rely from Yusuf estes what he said regarding certain individual...if it is not in his website than do not put much value on it.

Although their is another article on the topic of Advice where Hamza's name is mentioned alongside others.

It's from his web: http://www.islamnewsroom.com/content/view/65/52/

[Yasir]

wa'alaikum as-salaam,I just did a quick search on his site now but didn't find anything, can anyone confirm whether this is true or not?I too remember reading something in this regard. It seems that it has been taken down from his site since.
However, there are some remnants of it found online, such as here (http://www.islamicaweb.com/forums/religion-spirituality/32945-what-has-been-falsely-attributed-shaykh-yusuf-estes-about-shaykh-hamza-yusuf.html#post833047).

Is Br. Yusuf a scholar?

[Brother_Mujahid]

Is Br. Yusuf a scholar?

Nah, just a da'i.

[Yasir]

Nah, just a da'i.I thought that too, given all his work in the da'wah field masha'Allaah, but someone suggested he should be formally regarded as a scholar, given...

From: Sheikh Yusuf Estes ( sheikyusuf@aol.com )
Though the title can be used lingustically in a number of different ways, in the West, more often than not, it is used to denote a scholar.

[Turaabie]

Bismillah Rahman Raheem
As-Salam Alaykum:
Re: Hamza Yusuf and his new teachings

I ask Allah to Forgive me and protect me from the evil one and from the evil within myself. I ask all of the brothers and sisters to pray for me that I be rightly guided in the future and forgive me for keeping silent so long on a very serious issue. For more than one year I have wrestled with the notion of whether or not to expose one of our scholars in Islam here in America for some very serious deviation in his teachings. In my defence, I thought perhaps he would come to his senses or that possibly myself or someone could have the opportunity to sit with him and correct him in these areas. I was wrong. Recently it has escalated to the extent that he is misquoting the Quran, denying certain verses, presenting wrong hadeeth and in general showing Islam in the wrong light. And to make matters worse, he is doing it on prime time television. Due to his fame and access to the media, this now presents a great problem for all of us.

This letter is in regard to the teachings and understandings of Hamza Yusuf. It is very difficult to write due to the sensitivity of the subject and the respect for all our scholars in Islam today. We are forced to mention certain things about the beliefs of one of our leaders in the USA and his teachings. In the process however, we must do so in the most delicate manner so as not to cause further separation and division in the Muslim community when this is definitely not the time to divide ourselves up. Even so, it is all the more important to say what I have to say about our brother Hamza's understandings and teachings and the way that he is misrepresenting us as Muslims to the media and to the non-Muslims in general. The hard part is to do so with the most consideration for him and for all those who have been following him.

First of all, I am not the first one to offer this information regarding some of the beliefs held or at least promoted by Hamza Yusuf. In fact, I may be guilty of holding back information all too long, for the sake of trying to keep the ummah together on the issue of the our brother Hamza Yusuf in California. If you have not heard of him, you should. He is a good speaker and knows how to hold the attention of a crowd. He has been promoted heavily in the past by well known Muslim organizations like: ISNA; ICNA; Sound Vision and others. He is an American who chose to come to Islam and then went to study in another country to learn more about Arabic and Islam. He has worked hard and produced a large following.

For several years people have been asking me about the rumors regarding Hamza Yusuf and his "Zaytunna Institute." I have tried to avoid saying anything in a way that would be considered backbiting or slanderous. Yet, I have had complaints from some of those who actually were in his community studying under his tutelage. I took the opportunity over a year ago to go out to California and visit him, at the request of those who were commenting on the "strange" things that bothered them. After my visit I was convinced that there was a problem, but I did not feel that the best way to handle the situation was to publicly "blow the whistle" on him. I know that the Muslims today have a tendency to overreact and often they will turn against the one trying to help in the matter, out of their ignorance of Islam's teachings on these types of issues.

It is all too easy to point the finger at someone who has said or done something that appears against the principles of Islam and call them misguided. And worse, these days anyone can be called a "kafar" (disbeliever) just for saying the someone else is not following Islam correctly.

Additionally, a factor came into play that I really did not want to upset. That is that so many people (including our own family) love the audios and videos that Shaikh Hamza has produced. If you realize that this is the kind of thing which helps keep Muslims together, then you must also realize that any criticism could hurt feelings and cause ruffled feathers amongst the ummah. There certain video and audio producers and distributors who are making a lot of money from the sale of Hamza's tapes and they have been notified on no uncertain terms that there are problems with Hamza's Manhaj (methodology) to say the least. They refused to do anything about it or even suggest anything was wrong. Why? Some have accused them of turning a blind eye to truth in favor of the money they make on Hamza's tapes. They couple this with the fact that these same distributors also offer tapes with music on them. I don't think that is fair, however.

Let me now come to the main point. While investigating charges leveled at Shaikh Hamza, I personally stood in his Zaytunna Institute in California and watched as Shaikh Muhammad Yaqubi from Syria was conducting a class in Sufi Dhikr. For hours his students sat there on the floor rocking back and forth saying only: "Allah. Allah. Allah." Over and over again. One of the complaints from a student was that a Shaikh at Zaytunna Institute was forcing them to do hundreds of different Dhikrs everyday. So much so, that they were not able to complete their daily chores, but if they tried to stop a shaytan would start beating them. I advised them to stop immediately and get away from anything dealing with the shaytan. Keep in mind this is not Hamza, but rather someone working in his "institute."

My other experiences with Hamza have shown me that he has a tendency toward exaggerating the meanings of words, especially when it comes to discussing issues of any type. I have heard him time and again give the wrong meanings to words and then go off on tangents trying to prove up some point that just is not there. I recall one instance when I offered him some scented oil and he pulled away and then said he needed to smell it first. After smelling it, he began to tell those gathering around that actually from the Sunnah he was able to understand that smells provided cures for diseases. He then mistranslated the word for fragrance (at-teehttp://www.islamlife.com/images/smiley/cool.gif to be related to the word for doctor and then derived from that the meaning of prescription and then cure. From there he took off on a non-Muslim expert on scents and fragrances used for cures and began explaining that the plants have to be grown organically for them to still have the affect that they once had in the past.

The relevance of the whole situation is that many people in the West have come to regard Hamza as a scholar of Islam. I don't think that he is trying to promote himself so much as a scholar but it is possible that he may just be trying to promote his understandings of different words. But in view of the recent increased attention and focus on all Muslims and especially our leaders, we are forced to come forward and clarify what is the true Islam and who are the true scholars.. We have to be up front and say what needs to be said, without fear of criticism from others.


Here is second e-mail of Yusuf Estes about Hamza Yusuf and Zaytuna Institute


From: Sheikh Yusuf Estes ( sheikyusuf@aol.com )
To: (ADDRESS REMOVED) Someone who had complained about his first email
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 3:09 AM
Subject: May Allah forgive our mistakes, ameen. re: Article on Hamza Yousef

Bismillah Rahman Raheem
Salam Alaykum dear brother in Islam:

First, I begin by saying thank you for taking the time to write to me directly. I am amazed that someone criticized me to another person behind my back, for having criticized someone else, even though it was according to the teachings of Islam.

Also, up front we must say that no one is calling anyone else a nonbeliever (kafr). This all came about as an effort to clarify the correct teachings of Islam to many, including Muslims, who are very confused and concerned about what Islam does actually teach.

Before I begin, there is something that I should mention in all candidness. The organizations that I represent are not behind me in making these statements, at least they are not going to admit it publicly.

Additionally, the critique that was emailed out did not originate with me. Someone else with more knowledge and courage did a very through job on it and then forwarded it out and put in on the Internet. I did not take permission to reveal their identity, nor do I feel that it is necessary to disclose that information. If people want to be angry with me, so be it. At least it will not tear down years of work of a hard working scholar of Islam. By showing the identity what would be the benefit? Then the two scholars [Hamza & the other] may start to be against each other and divide the people up even further. If the whole matter stops at me, then there is actually very little loss. Right?

After all, who am I? I am just a brother who came to Islam some years ago, that goes around trying to bring others to Islam. I am merely a concerned Muslim who wants to do what Allah has ordered and what has been established by our righteous predecessors in Islam. If I am wrong, then I need to be shown proof from Quran and Sunnah regarding the matter in order to correct my mistakes and also to be able to go back to Allah in humility and beg for His Forgiveness.

Now to begin, inshallah. I love you for the sake of Allah. I pray that Allah Guide us both to truth and forgive any mistakes, ameen. I have been criticized for the way the brother treated the subject of Hamza Yusuf's comments on television as being "fitnah." But there is a lot of truth in what he said. He definitely used the right word: "fitnah." -- This word is particularly used in Islam to mean the things which could take someone out of Islam. It is the same word that Allah used when He told us that our wives, children, property and so on would all be "fitnah" [hard trials] for us.

The predictions of our beloved prophet, peace be upon him, are coming true faster than pearls fallen from a broken neckless.

Consider that he told us in the Last Days that the true scholars would be taken away and ignorance would be everywhere and the people without knowledge would be perceived as people with knowledge.

All of this is of course a test for all of us. Consider the recent events and how Muslims around the world are responding:

*

Afghanis blew up Buddhist statues -- what was our response?
*

Suicide bombers went into gatherings of Jews in Palestine -- what did we say?
*

Attacks came against America -- the blame went to Muslims immediately -- what did we do?
*

America is now destroying Muslim property, Muslim lives and thousands are homeless and dying as a result -- what are we doing?
*

And certain individuals are promoting their distorted views of Islam, while raising themselves to be close to those who are doing these things. What would you like me to say?

I will not apologize for being a Muslim. Nor will I apologize for what Muslims have NOT DONE. Additionally I refuse to back down from the fact that Islam is the only valid answer to the problems facing our world today. We must stand up now before it is too late. Mark my words. This is not a time to play and think that things are going to go back to "normal" for the Muslims in this or any other country. Allah has made it clear for us. Now we must carry this message or suffer the real consequences.

I have fallen under criticism for more than one year because I have not spoken out about what I know on this issue. I was trying to use the time to do exactly what you have said. Many others have expressed concerns over these same matters. I delayed for more than one year saying anything publicly.

I regret only that we did not move earlier on this subject. You see this has been well known to a number of us here in the states as well as abroad. Hamza has totally disregarded our efforts to speak to him on these or any subjects. He immediately begins to give lectures in the middle of discussions and goes off on definitions of words that have no meaning whatsoever to the conversation. (and they are incorrect in meaning as well).

I met with him a year ago in July at his place in California. [he ignored me]

I sat next to him in a very important meeting of imams for America in Chicago last year at ISNA. [he talked over me - and everyone else]

And then again I spoke with him at the ISNA Conference in Chicago. [he had his own agenda -- which included publicly attacking the belief of the Salaf as Saleeh (The companions and rightly guided early generations of Muslims) in the form of saying something twisted about "Wahabees" in his main lecture to thousands.]

I have referred new Muslims to his "Zaytunna Institute" only to find that they were not being taught Islam at all, they were being forced into doing "Sufi Dhikr." One lady complained to me over the phone and then when I went out there she told me that the shaytan were punishing her for not obeying the head "Shaikh" at Zaytunna. (This was Muhammad Yaqubi from Syria - who happens to be one of the muftis of the Shadaleyah Tareeqah). I personally went in and found his followers sitting on the floor reciting the word "Allah" over and over again for hours without stopping. Their eyes were closed and they were swaying back and forth as in a trance. This is not the proper way to introduce people to Islam.

When people begin learning "Islam" from these types it is very difficult for them to simply break away. Some are afraid that the jinn will bother them. Others think that the dead shaikhs have some mystical powers. The list goes on.

We have only produced exactly what he has said on the most important occasion of trying to bring about a better understanding of what Islam is all about. I realize that all of us, especially me make mistakes in our presentations. Sometimes, like last Sunday, I put things in the wrong order and loose valuable time and even the attention of some of the listeners. I ask Allah to forgive me for that. But when it comes to the material that is presented, if it is not in conjunction with what the Quran and the Sunnah teach, what would you suggest?

Would you accept that someone says something to a non-Muslim about the Quran that can open doors to huge attacks against Islam for no reason?

Is it right to sit silent while someone is making our Deen appear to have mistakes in it?

In fact, that is why I have been criticized so heavily in the recent weeks. I had received admonition during the summer just before leaving for Egypt from some of our brothers who study at one of our Islamic institutes in Virginia. They insisted that we begin exposing Hamza's institute before he did his last big nationwide drive for enrollment. But I thought I should wait a little longer. Now look what has happened.

There are others involved in this "Sufi" movement as well. I have not sat with them personally nor have they corresponded with me. However, I can assure you that the teachings coming from their sources have serious errors in them and could even be considered leading out of Islam completely.

All this time, this groups such as "sufees" And "Shiites" and "Nation of Islam" and "Ahmadiyyans" and "Rastafarians" and "Moorish Science Temple" and "Ansar Allah" and "Five Percenters" and "Submitters International" are actually doing the thing that you are complaining against me: They are dividing up the Muslims through their various cults and tareeqahs. We ask everyone to come together and unify according to what Allah has ordered us in the first place, and that is to unify under the Quran and the Sunnah.

Thank you again for coming straight to me with this subject. If I chose to reveal the topic, I will conceal your identity, inshaallah.

Salam Alaykum wa Rahmatulah,
Your brother in Islam,
Yusuf

(Sorry i had to paste... As they're from my inbox!)

[Abu wakee]

Can't we just move on? How many times more are we going to create threads 'refuting' Hamza Yusuf. Maybe it's about time we found other preoccupations.

[shaheed666]

Assalamu alaikum,
Dear akhi i request u to provide textual reference for ur comment that the awrah of a slave women(including muslim slave women) is from her navel to knee, and as for women doing tawaf naked during the jahili days i think most brothers here dont know that even during the jahiliya days arab women used to do it at night i.e in total darkness and not running around bare-breast as many people think.......jazakaAllah

[Brother_Mujahid]

Can't we just move on? How many times more are we going to create threads 'refuting' Hamza Yusuf. Maybe it's about time we found other preoccupations.

Good point. The pure Islamic da'wah continues to proceed, and has left the people of desire and innovation behind in the its wake.

[Madarijas-Salikeen]

Can't we just move on? How many times more are we going to create threads 'refuting' Hamza Yusuf. Maybe it's about time we found other preoccupations.

as salaamu alaykum,

Na'am akhi perhaps such as purifying our own hearts following the True sunnah and not mysticism. Implementing even the littlest of sunnahs in our life. The different adhkar and the different supplications we can do throughout the day. If we memorized all of these we would constantly remind ourselves of these (such as going to lavatory saying the dua of seeking refuge), or leaving the house, entering the house, etc...

We would obtain much and thats the problem with the ummah is we have shun the sunnah.

wasalaam

[gag order]

The pure Islamic da'wah continues to proceed, and has left the people of desire and innovation behind in the its wake.
not only desire and innovation, but treachory and betrayal also, he apparently contributed to the war on terror with his words and used the patronage of the whitehouse to promote his version of islam as the official version.

Can't we just move on
he cannot be ignored, rather his degeneracy is to be monitored and warned against with each new development.

[Brother_Mujahid]

I guess what I'm trying to say gag order is that Hamza Yusuf is a nobody and no one, aside from a bunch of do-nothing kids, takes him seriously. The `ummah does not look to him and his ilk for guidance or assistance. He is irrelevent outside his Western insiders club.

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

Dear akhi i request u to provide textual reference for ur comment that the awrah of a slave women(including muslim slave women) is from her navel to knee, and as for women doing tawaf naked during the jahili days i think most brothers here dont know that even during the jahiliya days arab women used to do it at night i.e in total darkness and not running around bare-breast as many people think.......jazakaAllah

Firstly, there is a difference between the actual hukm of something on the one hand, and describing what happened in real life in the Muslim societies during some periods on the other.

When we are talking about slave-women going around al-Madinah bare-breasted, we are only talking about something that happened, and we are not necessarily claiming that it was OK for them to do this according to the shari'ah. And as I mentioned, the ulama like Malik ibn Anas and others strongly opposed this practice).

Having said that, there were a group of the ulama who said that (at least in theory), the slave woman's 'awrah - Muslimah or non-Muslimah - is only the area between the navel and the knees.

As for the ikhtilaf over the 'awrah of the slave woman, here is a quote from "Al-Kafi fi Fiqh al-Imam Ahmad":

فصل :
وما يظهر دائماً من الأمة كالرأس واليدين إلى المرفقين والرجلين إلى الركبتين ليس بعورة ، لأن عمر رضي الله عنه نهى الأمة عن التقنع والتشبه بالحرائر ، قال القاضي في الجامع وما عدا ذلك عورة ، لأنه لا يظهر غالباً ، أشبه ما تحت السرة .
وقال ابن حامد عورتها كعورة الرجل ، لما روى عمر بن شعيب عن أبيه عن جده أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : إذا زوج أحدكم أمته عبده أو أجيره فلا ينظر إلى شيء من عورته فإن ما تحت السرة إلى الركبة عورة يريد عورة الأمة ، رواه الدارقطني . ولأنه من لم يكن رأسه عورة لم يكن صدره عورة ، كالرجل والمدبرة والمعلق عتقها بصفة كالقن ، لأنهما مثلها في البيع وغيره . وأم الولد والمعتق بعضها كذلك ، لأن الرق باق فيهما إلا أنه يستحب لهما التستر ، لما فيهما من شبه الأحرار .
وعنه : أنها كالحرة لذلك .
وعورة الخنثى المشكل كعورة الرجل ، لأن الأصل عدم وجوب الستر ، فلا نوجبه بالشك ، وإن قلنا : العورة الفرجان ، لزمه ستر قبله وذكره ، لأن أحدهما واجب الستر ، ولا يتيقن ستره إلا بسترهما .

Translation:

What normally appears of the slave woman, like the head, the hands up to the elbows, and the feet up to the knees, it is not 'awrah, because 'Umar, radhiyallahu 'anhu, forbade the slave woman from covering her head (at-taqannu') and imitating the free women.

Al-Qadhi said in "al-Jami'" that everything besides that (i.e. what is mentioned above) is 'awrah, because it is usually not exposed, similar to what is beneath the navel.

Ibn Hamid said that her 'awrah is the same as the 'awrah of the man, because of what is narrated by 'Amr ibn Shu'ayb, from his father, from his grandfather, that the Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam, said: "When one of you marries off his slave woman to his slave or hireling, let him not look at anything of her 'awrah, for whatever is below the navel until the knees is 'awrah." He meant the 'awrah of the slave woman. Narrated by ad-Daraqutni. And because whoever's head is not 'awrah, then their chest is not 'awrah...

And it is also narrated from him (i.e. al-Imam Ahmad) that she is like the free woman in that respect. (End of quote.)

This is what I could find in al-Kafi fi Fiqh al-Imam Ahmad. So you can see that it is true that some ulama in the Hanbali madhhab (and this view is also held in other madhahib as well) have said that the 'awrah of a slave-woman is the same as that of a man. Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab was of this view, and he mentioned it in the booklet "Shurut as-Salah."

If I remember correctly, there is also a detailed section on it in al-Mughni in which the different sayings of the Salaf on this issue are given, along with who said them.

[Skillganon]

I guess what I'm trying to say gag order is that Hamza Yusuf is a nobody and no one, aside from a bunch of do-nothing kids, takes him seriously. The `ummah does not look to him and his ilk for guidance or assistance. He is irrelevent outside his Western insiders club.

Well put. I did not know who was Hamza Yusuf until the internet (actually I did not know much any other thing until the I decided to know moe about Islam)...but it really does not take a intelligence person to know that zen buddhism has nothing got to do with islam, and it would be idiotic to take it as matter of aqeedah, guidance or anykind of belief.

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

I guarantee you that the vast majority of Muslims inside the Muslim countries - and probably a large proportion of those in the west too - have never even heard of Hamzah Yusuf.

Having said that, I believe that it is still necessary for people to refute these guys like Hamza Yusuf, Keller, etc. because they do indeed lead people astray, and as the Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam, said to 'Ali: "If Allah guides even one person at your hands, it is better for your than humr an-na'am."

[ibnYaseen]

Muhamad Yaqoubi came to the UK in 2002, at that time my Islamic knowledge was scattered and tattered and I didn't know what I believed and didn't believe.

Yaqoubi came to the Oxford United football club stadium to give a lecture, a local sufi told my dad who forced me to go to it and I did... there was THOUSANDS and I mean THOUSANDS of attendees. You'll be surprised about how many actually go and listen to these guys. They had enough money to hire out the whole stadium for that day. Car after car was parking in the car park and people were pouring in, many wearing green turbans might I add.

I remember at the end during the Q & A interaction when everything got light-hearted they made a LOT of fun about "wahabi's" and "khilafah preachers" (HTs).

There is a lot of work that needs to be done to guide Muslims away from the alluring empty-speech of Hamza Yusuf, Keller, Yaqoubi and their ilk. Although it is correct to say that we must concentrate on ourselves and try to implement sunnah in to our everyday lives to try and better ourselves individually inshaaAllah -- we can't at the same time just ignore the dangers that can mislead others, like gag order said, refuting these people should be considered a constant work-in-progress. It's our duty.

[gag order]

he enjoys the patronage of the whitehouse which favours his version of islam as the official version. its possible that in his advisory role he has singled out his theological adversaries as the root cause of militant islam. he can easily expand his sphere of influence and raise a generation of innovators and betrayors.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Well, Hamza Yusuf and Suhayb Webb were named by the British government as potential individuals to support. So these types are definitely, whether wittingly or not, tools in the hands of the Western governments.

[Yasir]

Hasn't Sh. Suhaib Hassan, 'Abdul-Hadi et al also attended meetings at Downing Street and engagements with the Home Secretary? Some went on to become part of official task forces. How then would you view that?

[baghdad sniper]

Hasn't Sh. Suhaib Hassan, 'Abdul-Hadi et al also attended meetings at Downing Street and engagements with the Home Secretary? Some went on to become part of official task forces. How then would you view that?

How would you then view Hashim Jabron who was killed in Afghanistan while serving the British army?

[Skillganon]

I guarantee you that the vast majority of Muslims inside the Muslim countries - and probably a large proportion of those in the west too - have never even heard of Hamzah Yusuf.

Who's Hamza yusuf? :confused:

[Brother_Mujahid]

Hasn't Sh. Suhaib Hassan, 'Abdul-Hadi et al also attended meetings at Downing Street and engagements with the Home Secretary? Some went on to become part of official task forces. How then would you view that?

I don't know if Shaykh Suhayb Hasan ever did that, but just meeting with government officials isn't what I'm talking about. Rather I'm talking about those who are actually pushed and perhaps even funded by the authorities.

[Norah1]

AsalamuAlaikum,

Someone mentioned that we need to stop talking about Hamza Yusuf and others, but as I newly practising Muslim (5 years) I need to know which speakers are reliable and the ones to stay clear from.

Brother_Mujahid, I was once those teenie boppers who listen to Hamza Yusuf as if he was pouring sweet honey into their souls. Just recently, did I begin to question him.

It's imperative we speak about such deviance and let the Ummah know whats really happening!!!

[ibnfaruk]

Salams to all, With wisdom and Knowledge my sister!

[Brother_Mujahid]

AsalamuAlaikum,

Someone mentioned that we need to stop talking about Hamza Yusuf and others, but as I newly practising Muslim (5 years) I need to know which speakers are reliable and the ones to stay clear from.

wa `alaikum as-Salam,

I suggest speakers like `Ali at-Tamimi (faka ullah `asra), Jamal ud-Din Zarabozo, Dr. Bilal Philips, Shaykh Salim al-`Amry, Shaykh Jafar Idris, Yasir Qadhi, and some others like this. If you need links to their lectures let me know.

[Norah1]

I suggest speakers like Dr. Bilal Philips, Yasir Qadhi,

Alhamdulilah. Being an english speaking Muslim, these are the only speakers I know of from your list. But inshaAllah I shall discover.

I'm actually going to take a course on Aqeedah by Yasir Qadhi in the summer, inshaAllah.

[Yasir]

Brother_Mujahid, would you please post the link to Sh. Jafar Idris's lectures.

[mm12]

For those of you whose hobbies include wasting time, theres a programme on Islam Channel this Sunday called "Hamza Yusuf: The creed of Tahawi" at 3pm

[Abuz Zubair]

hamza Yusuf On Islam Channel Teaching Creed?!?!?!?!?!

[Mu'awiya]

hamza Yusuf On Islam Channel Teaching Creed?!?!?!?!?!


Asalaamu alaikum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.


They advertised it on Islaam channel, here's the link:

http://tahawiyya.com/birmingham_event.htm

[gag order]

Recently it has escalated to the extent that he is misquoting the Quran, denying certain verses, presenting wrong hadeeth and in general showing Islam in the wrong light. And to make matters worse, he is doing it on prime time television. Due to his fame and access to the media, this now presents a great problem for all of us.yusuf estes on hamza yusuf...

[aMuslimForLife]

Asalaamu alaikum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.


They advertised it on Islaam channel, here's the link:

http://tahawiyya.com/birmingham_event.htm


I wish I could watch it.

[Yasir]

hamza Yusuf On Islam Channel Teaching Creed?!?!?!?!?!You can see some of it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iELgJKPLgQo&mode=related&search=) and the associated parts.

[joefso]

i'm watching 3/5 a.t.m ... interesting ... especially on the necessary of defending islam against external (philosophical) groups.

[Student_of_Knowledge]

Asslamo Allaikum,

Hamza Yusuf took a group of about 150 youngsters on Umrah during Ramadhan last year (2006) & the Saudi Government welcomed him & the group and the group was allowed to go inside the Kaab’ah escorted by Saudi Government officials & and Khateeb of AI-Masjid Al-Haram Muhammad Bin Abdullah As-Subayyal

This can be verified from any of the 150 who went with him last year.

Read into it what you will!

[waziri]

Asslamo Allaikum,

Hamza Yusuf took a group of about 150 youngsters on Umrah during Ramadhan last year (2006) & the Saudi Government welcomed him & the group and the group was allowed to go inside the Kaab’ah escorted by Saudi Government officials & and Khateeb of AI-Masjid Al-Haram Muhammad Bin Abdullah As-Subayyal

This can be verified from any of the 150 who went with him last year.

Read into it what you will!

Well akhi he is ameican,what do you expect?The saudi dictators bend over backwards to accommodate americans.

[Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri]

yes being g.bu5h's friend helps too. Maybe they gave them free rooms at dar al tawhid with haram view

Recently it has escalated to the extent that he is misquoting the Quran, denying certain verses, presenting wrong hadeeth and in general showing Islam in the wrong light. And to make matters worse, he is doing it on prime time television. Due to his fame and access to the media, this now presents a great problem for all of us. ...If the above is true, are there any scholars out there to refute him?

[Muhammed]

As salamu alaykum,

Islam Channel also have Muhammad Tahir ul Qadri teaching tafsir.

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

If the above is true, are there any scholars out there to refute him?

One of his friends, Muhammad Sharif (not the one from al-Maghrib), who is a maliki-ash'ari like Hamza Yusuf but much stricter and closer to the haqq than Hamza Yusuf, wrote an advice and refutation of several pages regarding HY's comments to the media in which he denied the physical nature of Paradise and the concept of armed jihad. He refuted him with many proofs and evidences and quotes from the classical ulama, and he even said that these statements of yours are kufr which takes a person out of Islam(!), however strangely he said at the end that he is still his friend. Apparently he later on he retracted from giving that advice, Allahu a'lam why... it is very unusual. However, the original form of the refutation that was written by Muhammad Sharif is still very good and certainly still applicable, whether or not its author has indeed retracted from it or not!

[waziri]

One of his friends, Muhammad Sharif (not the one from al-Maghrib), who is a maliki-ash'ari like Hamza Yusuf but much stricter and closer to the haqq than Hamza Yusuf, wrote an advice and refutation of several pages regarding HY's comments to the media in which he denied the physical nature of Paradise and the concept of armed jihad. He refuted him with many proofs and evidences and quotes from the classical ulama, and he even said that these statements of yours are kufr which takes a person out of Islam(!), however strangely he said at the end that he is still his friend. Apparently he later on he retracted from giving that advice, Allahu a'lam why... it is very unusual. However, the original form of the refutation that was written by Muhammad Sharif is still very good and certainly still applicable, whether or not its author has indeed retracted from it or not!


Is this refutation available on the net anywhere?

[just a guy]

As Salaamu Alaikum,

I think the guy (HY) has over extended his stay and his 15 minutes of fame have long been expired. I am also disturbed about his growing fame especially with the newly reverts or those that are just beginning to practice Islam.

I personally had to somewhat harshly rebuke some of my family members for listening to his material. Instead, I 'lightly' pushed them towards lectures by Awlaki, Tamimi, Yasir Qadhi, Bilal Phillips and other mashaykes with sound aqeedah - For there is NO WAY I am gonna let his stuff 'infiltrate' my household or come near my family!

I think the time is due now for someone to refute HY's incorrect and or heretic teachings---waallahualam

[Magoo]

i think the reverts like him due to the fact that hes a revert aswell, not all reverts but many of them, also, as has been said before in the forum, he preaches a very safe, non-controversial islam that the kuffaar are happy with, what killed it for me was when his mate abdul hakim murad came on dispatches and said all sorts of rubbish, that made me realise these people are off-key

[IbnShaykh]

wa `alaikum as-Salam,

I suggest speakers like `Ali at-Tamimi (faka ullah `asra), Jamal ud-Din Zarabozo, Dr. Bilal Philips, Shaykh Salim al-`Amry, Shaykh Jafar Idris, Yasir Qadhi, and some others like this. If you need links to their lectures let me know.

Bismillah Ir Rahman Ir Raheem

As Salaam Walaikum

Could you provide some lectures by Zarabozo, shaykh salim amry and Shaykh Jafar idris. Sorry to make such a large request ackhi may Allaah reward you.

[Abu Bubu]

Wa'alaykum Asallam,

You can download Br Jamal Zarabozo lectures here:

http://www.kalamullah.com/Jamal%20Zarabozo/

Lectures from Sheikh Salaim al-amry here:

http://www.ibraheemscreed.net/


and from Shaykh Jafar Idris here:

http://nadeem.lightuponlight.com/indexaudios2.html#Jafar_idris

[IbnShaykh]

Wa'alaykum Asallam,

You can download Br Jamal Zarabozo lectures here:

http://www.kalamullah.com/Jamal%20Zarabozo/

Lectures from Sheikh Salaim al-amry here:

http://www.ibraheemscreed.net/


and from Shaykh Jafar Idris here:

http://nadeem.lightuponlight.com/indexaudios2.html#Jafar_idris

Jzack Allaahu Khair for this!

[Turaabie]

Is this refutation available on the net anywhere?

Here you go...

[Saif ul Haq]

Shockingly the letter is impressive, was this letter released to the public by Muhammad Shareef? Where can I find his retraction?

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

I don't know if he put the retraction in writing, all I heard from some people is that they said he had retracted it, wallahu a'lam.

[Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri]

Is it true his arabic is pretty 'eloquent?'

[Brother_Mujahid]

I don't know if he put the retraction in writing, all I heard from some people is that they said he had retracted it, wallahu a'lam.

Who told you that? The Hamza Yusuf cultists?

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

Who told you that? The Hamza Yusuf cultists?

Yeah, I think they were in that general category.

[Brother_Mujahid]

Yeah, I think they were in that general category.

Of course they would say that. I had one Hamza Yusuf cultist tell me that Mr. Hanson was a "mujahid" who fought in Afghanistan. Quite frankly, those people aren't trustworthy to narrate a chili recipe.

[Waleed]

He is a really sick person, and I mean by that diseased to the core.

.

SUBHANULLAH!!! Brothers and Sisters are you even thinking about what you're writing. Ask yourself for a second . . . could you imagine the prophet Muhammad(SAW) saying such a thing about a fellow muslim BROTHER !!! Regardless of the few or many things he may have said that may not be in compliance to what we believe he stills deserves the respect of a muslim !!! SOOOOO many muslims are so quick to bash each other saying such comments that i could carry on quoting for the rest of the night forgeting that the person that they're slating may well have spent the most part of his life studying the deen of Allah. Regardless of his views on Aqeedah, which yes many people have an issue with, we can all beneift from the wealth of knowledge that he has to offer like the brother mentioned about his seerah series!! why not look to the good in someone rather than what you dont agree with. After all this person is your brother . . .yes your BROTHER in islam and he deserves that respect.

if you have an issue with his beliefs, beard or what ever dont go on like many of the non-muslims do slandering one another rather try to employ some hikmah and sense

sorry for quoting the brother at the top but quite frankly i was so saddened to see the attitude of muslims towards another muslim, all it does is cause a mass fitnah - is that what we're after ???

im not taking no sides - im not no sufi, salafi, wahabi so dont get me wrong im just trying to eliminate a fitnah insha'allah. If you feel so bad about the brothers views then dont listen to his talks and lectures, Dont waste your time slandering the brother when in that time you rather be talking about much more beneficial issues.

Wasalam Wr Wb

[Abdullah Ali al Hanafi]

Of course they would say that. I had one Hamza Yusuf cultist tell me that Mr. Hanson was a "mujahid" who fought in Afghanistan. Quite frankly, those people aren't trustworthy to narrate a chili recipe.

most Saudi-Salafis are more cultists and not lesser deviant then ''Hamza Yusuf Hanson''

[Brother_Mujahid]

most Saudi-Salafis are more cultists and not lesser deviant then ''Hamza Yusuf Hanson''

I'm not sure what you are getting at.

[Brother_Mujahid]

he enjoys the patronage of the whitehouse which favours his version of islam as the official version. its possible that in his advisory role he has singled out his theological adversaries as the root cause of militant islam. he can easily expand his sphere of influence and raise a generation of innovators and betrayors.

In all fairness to Hamza Yusuf, he claims that he went to the White House in 2001 after being told to do so by Sh. 'Abdullah bin Bayyah. He states that he urged George W. Bush not to bomb Afghanistan, but was obviously ignored. As much as I dislike Hamza Yusuf and his shape-shifting methodology, I see no evidence that he acts in concert with or under the direction of the American government. I believe he says many of his more defeatist comments out of a general and exaggerated fear of getting in trouble with the government after 9/11 (and once in that role it is hard to break out of it).

[Salahadeen]

I have a question, and it is sincere: how would Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah [ra] view Hamza Yusuf, if he was alive today? (I don't know, I'm asking.)

The reason I ask is that Sh. al-Islam used to always give credit where credit is due.

Shouldn't we give credit to Hamza Yusuf for his service to Islam and his role in Dawah?

I personally don't like listening to his speeches, just because--like Brother_Mujahid said--he changes topic every 2 minutes...which gets really annoying for me...

But a lot of people are guided to Islam by him...

And also, one thing I noticed about Hamza Yusuf is that he doesn't focus on Salafi-bashing like Nuh Keller..I don't know, I haven't really seen it... I think he is sincere, just has the wrong aqeedah...but he has some good speeches out there that are motivational...

I don't know, just my mumbled and jumbled up thoughts. Wallahu Aalim.

[Abdullah Ali al Hanafi]

I'm not sure what you are getting at.

i think you understand what i mean:)

[Brother_Mujahid]

i think you understand what i mean:)

If I knew what your point was I wouldn't have said anything.

[Striving2Struggle]

I have a question, and it is sincere: how would Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah [ra] view Hamza Yusuf, if he was alive today? (I don't know, I'm asking.)

The reason I ask is that Sh. al-Islam used to always give credit where credit is due.

Shouldn't we give credit to Hamza Yusuf for his service to Islam and his role in Dawah?

I personally don't like listening to his speeches, just because--like Brother_Mujahid said--he changes topic every 2 minutes...which gets really annoying for me...

But a lot of people are guided to Islam by him...

And also, one thing I noticed about Hamza Yusuf is that he doesn't focus on Salafi-bashing like Nuh Keller..I don't know, I haven't really seen it... I think he is sincere, just has the wrong aqeedah...but he has some good speeches out there that are motivational...

I don't know, just my mumbled and jumbled up thoughts. Wallahu Aalim.

That's exactly how I feel about him, I disagree with some of his methods but to say that he is "diseased to the core" is ridiculous

[Miqdad]

Hamza's goal is to build bridges between Kufr and Islam, and this is never going to happen.

[Ibn malik]

That's exactly how I feel about him, I disagree with some of his methods but to say that he is "diseased to the core" is ridiculous
That is not true. Because Ibn Taymiyyah refuted the scholars who were instrumental in cementing the rule of the mongols, (and there were many).
I beleive this man stands condenmed as one who has facilitated much for the Kuffar, and acted as an obstical for the Muslims from getting to the haq (in many aspects).

[Suhaib Jobst]

Hamza's goal is to build bridges between Kufr and Islam, and this is never going to happen.

I beleive this man stands condenmed as one who has facilitated much for the Kuffar, and acted as an obstical for the Muslims from getting to the haq (in many aspects).

If one was to criticize him for such, then one would also have to criticize many scholars or other figures liked by the Salafis. The dominant trend seems to be to attack other Muslims while leaving alone the kuffar, so by default this is facilitating much for the enemies of Islam.

It has also become the official policy of "Saudi" Arabia and its government scholars, such as 'Ubaykan and the leaders of Rabita (Muslim World League), to engage in "inter-faith dialogue", which is clearly an ill-begotten attempt to compromise Islam with kufr, which can never happen.

One should be open-minded enough that they can take the good points a brother has to offer, while rejecting the bad points. We should not eschew any possible good merely because it comes from a brother who has some bad points, especially if there are others with these same faults. Wa Allahu A'lam.