Are these figures on apostasy correct?

[Intoodeep]

I was debating a christian and he gave me the following website about muslims who have left islam..

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Muslims_Leaving_Islam

it gives the following statistics:

* 2 million ethnic Muslims converted to Christianity in Russia
* In Africa, 6 million muslims convert to Christianity every year.
and even:
* 200,000 UK Muslims Left Islam

Could that possibly be true?

Also surprisingly it has a couple of deans/rectors of Al-Azhar who have apostasied as well as an ex-advisor to gadaffi (no surprise there) In fact i can see a correlation between sufism/asharism and apostasy from some of the stats given.

[Yasir]

What does it mean to be an 'ethnic' Muslim?

I don't think the UK figure is accurate.
I also think that there are many more Muslims in the UK than the official statistics portray. I would say there are at least ~4m Muslims here.

[Skillganon]

I won't give to much credence to this kind of statistic, if you actually carried out this kind of statistic you will know.

Usually they are not always reliable or trustworthy.

[Skillganon]

Actually I checked the wiki. Converting to Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism?
What a joke.

If they converted who cares, we don't need jokers like that.....

[Abd al-Haqq Marshall]

Also surprisingly it has a couple of deans/rectors of Al-Azhar who have apostasied as well as an ex-advisor to gadaffi (no surprise there) In fact i can see a correlation between sufism/asharism and apostasy from some of the stats given.

Most of the famous "apostates" were never Muslims to begin with. They're frauds who have lied about their backgroud, like Walid Batshit and Mark Gabriel.

BTW that website is a kaafir evangelical website. Not a reliable source of information.

[kamran]

Assalam o Alaikum wa Rahmatullah wa Barakaatuh,

I hope you are all well in every respect.

Kindly the article (http://usa.mediamonitors.net/layout/set/print/content/view/full/27261) which exposes Wikipedia in a detailed manner.
Going by these observations and remembering that this article was primary addressing internet users, the general approach should be "guilty unless proven otherwise".

You may rely upon Wikipedia for some trivia on Tom and Jerry but some tendencies that I have seen lately, like turning it into Wikitafseer, and then justifying that approach, is defending the indefensible. Recently, someone among my old university mates quoted Wikipedia's references on 'apostasy' to support his heretical views.

People of knowledge, regardless of their Deen, do not consider it source in the first place. The problem lies with us: Half-baked, copy-paste pseudo-scholars that turn references such as Wikipedia into a reliable reference and who do not even know how to 'select' a reference in the first place.

Regards,

Kamran

[Brother_Mujahid]

So who goes to Africa and counts these "six million" apostates each year? This is all just nonsense and propaganda from the Evangelical Christians, most who are pathological liars (and perverts).

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

Those people can't understand the difference between the single-digit numbers "one" and "three", why should we trust them with six-digit numbers?!:D

[Umm Ahmed]

Allaah knows best about figures, as for UK I am pretty sure thats a lie, there isn't a centre where you go in and say "I am an apostate"
The christians are frightened at what they see as alarming numbers of people embracing Islaam and as in any war will lie and fix the books.
However I do recall in a talk by Anwar awlaki when he discussed that people would leave Islaam in large numbers , alhamdulilaah Allaah purifys our ranks.

Al-Bukhari recorded in his Sahih that `Amr bin Salamah said, "When Makkah was conquered, all of the people rushed to the Messenger of Allah to profess their Islam. The various regions were delaying their acceptance of Islam until Makkah was conquered. The people used to say, `Leave him and his people alone. If he is victorious over them he is a (true) Prophet.''' We have researched the war expedition for conquest of Makkah in our book As-Surah. Therefore, whoever wishes he may review it there. And all praise and blessings are due to Allah.
Imam Ahmad recorded from Abu `Ammar that a neighbor of Jabir bin `Abdullah told him, "I returned from a journey and Jabir bin `Abdullah came and greeted me. So I began to talk with him about the divisions among the people and what they had started doing. Thus, Jabir began to cry and he said, `I heard the Messenger of Allah saying,


«إِنَّ النَّاسَ دَخَلُوا فِي دِينِ اللهِ أَفْوَاجًا، وَسَيَخْرُجُونَ مِنْهُ أَفْوَاجًا»


(Verily, the people have entered into the religion of Allah in crowds and they will also leave it in crowds.)'' This is the end of the Tafsir of Surat An-Nasr, and all praise and blessings are due to Allah.
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=110&tid=59390

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

Honestly, we should not be at all surprised to see many Muslims becoming apostates in this time. Because the Muslims in general are weak and disorganised, and the kuffar are often seen as having the upper hand. All of this can drive people with weak iman out of the deen. I have read that even during the fitnah between 'Ali and Mu'awiyah after the battle of Siffin, there were quite a few of the recent converts to Islam who apostasised because they became so disillusioned with what they saw from the Muslims' behaviour in fighting each other! So if that kind of thing could happen during the khilafah of 'Ali and Mu'awiyah, then it is even more likely to happen today.

Remeber the hadith of Ibn 'Umar, radhiyallahu 'anhu, in which the Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam, mentioned the fitnah of ad-duhayma' which would occur before the coming of the Dajjal, and in this fitnah he said that many people will wake up as believers and go to bed the next evening as kafirs and that this will be to purify the ranks of the Muslims until there are two groups: one of iman with no hypocrisy, and one of hypocrisy with no iman.

[Intoodeep]

what does ad-duhayma' mean? how will we know when this fitna is?

As for the statistics i think they are exaggeration (Allahu Aleem) but even then it shows what the kuffar are upto and sometimes we are so caught up in internal arguments that we forget the constant external threats.

I dont have any empirical evidence to back this up, but i think wherever the salafi dawah is strong then conversion to other faiths etc is hugely restricted. Its only the socio-political obstacles to the dawah that allow christians and others to get away with what they are doing. At the same time the salafis should make more of a concerted organised effort like western missionary organisations.

[JayshAllah]

Honestly, I wasn't surprised by these statistics. The sinful, liberal, and progressive Muslims are turning into apostates a lot. Big deal. They suck anyways.

[Abu_Abdillah2000]

what does ad-duhayma' mean? how will we know when this fitna is?

Ad-duhayma' means dark and black. The idea is that the fitnah is so confusing and terrible that it is like a dark, black fitnah.

As for when it will begin, usually these things are not so simple like that. They tend to start very gradually and by the time they are in full swing, most of the people don't even realise that they are even in a fitnah!

Anyway, the hadith is quite vague regarding details, the Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam, only told us in many of these kind of ahadith what we need to know in terms of general directions to save ourselves from the hellfire.

Although I would not at all be surprised if we are living in the time of the fitnah of ad-duhayma' now, but Allahu a'lam.

[Skillganon]

Come on we should not give much credence to such stories, it is cheap tactic....

Think about it 1 God ----> 3 gods, 1000 gods and atheism?

You must have a wonky head to fall for such thing. It has no relevance to Muslims.

Obviously one should realise it is a tactic that is designed for less aware and or young muslims.

[abumuwahid]

As salamu alaykum

http://www.wikiislam.com/ is actually a wiki started by filthy kuffar who hate Islam, so I would desist from quoting anything from that site. It is not the same as wikipedia. Anyone with half a brain can start their own wiki site and make it appear that it is a genuine site.

[ibn 'abd al-jabbaar]

as-salaamu 'alaikum

Cyber-Islamophobia? The case of WikiIslam (http://www.springerlink.com/content/p02g0g86387j4t62/fulltext.html)