PDA

View Full Version : Alarming divorce rates amongst Muslims! - and Reasons


Niqaabis
11th June 2007, 09:48 PM
By Sondos Kholoki

When Ambreen and Amr married in 2003, they were young and in love. Despite them living on opposite ends of the state, Ambreen and Amr experienced obvious chemistry that propelled them to marry after being acquainted for two years.

After the wedding, Ambreen moved from her home leaving behind her family and close friends. The relocation was difficult for Ambreen, who spent long hours alone while Amr looked for steady work. She sought solace in her new husband, but Amr seemed more interested in staying out of the house, saying that he was going to do whatever he wanted to do. Surprised by his immaturity, Ambreen kept quiet and hoped things would change. When her parents called worried about her depressed state, she reassured them that all was well.

After a few months, the problem only seemed to get worse. Their financial situation did not help. The last straw came when Ambreen’s in-laws appeared to be rooting for the marriage to fail, claiming that Ambreen was not living up to her wifely duties. Finally, at the end of the tumultuous first year, Ambreen confided in her family. Her parents thought they could help, but the damage had already run its course. Within two years, Ambreen and Amr had divorced.

Unfortunately, such stories are not uncommon. Divorce is on the rise in the Muslim community, especially in the West. According to a study conducted by Dr. Ilyas Ba-Yunus, a sociology professor at State University of New York, the overall divorce rate among Muslims in North America is at an astounding 31%. The state of California ranks highest with a 37% rate of divorce and New York, Ontario, and Texas follow closely with a 30% rate. Compared to the overall rate of divorce in the U.S. (49%) and Canada (45%), the increasing rate of divorce among Muslims is cause for alarm.

Reasons for Divorce

Drs. Mohamed Rida and Ekram Beshir, co-authors of the books Blissful Marriage and Meeting the Challenge of Parenting in the West point to several reasons for divorce. Among them are non-compatibility between spouses due to differences in background, and mistakenly judging the marriage by the first years, which are the toughest and most critical. Overall, the Beshirs attribute carelessness as the most critical mistake in marriages today.

“We live in a culture of boyfriends and girlfriends, and youth want that kind of relationship so bad they ask to marry. They think they’re ready for marriage, but really they are seeing it as a replacement for the no-dating rule in Islam. Marriage comes with more obligation than this,” Dr. Ekram explained at a recent Muslim American Society (MAS) Family Development workshop in Sacramento.

Shaikh Yassir Fazaga, religious director and certified counselor at the Orange County Islamic Foundation in Mission Viejo has advised numerous couples with marital troubles. Fazaga, who holds a Master’s degree in psychotherapy and marital/family relations, says most of the couples who seek his counsel have been married for only five years or less. “It is in these five years that they find out they’re not right for each other or have mistreated each other for so long there is no chance of a comeback,” Fazaga said.

From his experience, Fazaga mentioned three recurring reasons for divorce:

1. Couples who are right for one another, but love and treat each other the wrong way.

2. Couples who are not right for each other, which could have been prevented if they had asked enough questions prior to the marriage

3. People who are too impatient to work on the problem.

“We get into this idea of feeling good in a second—have a headache take a pill, don’t like your teeth change them immediately. People treat their marriage in the same way. Nobody really wants to invest in their relationship,” Fazaga clarified.

“If they want to keep their relationship, they must keep working on it. We all want the garden, but nobody wants to be the gardener,” he added.
When it comes to couples who divorce long after their children have grown up, Fazaga explained that “generally speaking, these are people who have recognized they wanted a divorce for a long time, but kept things the way they were for sake of the kids.”

Nahla Kayali, founder and director of Access California Services, a human services organization in California that accommodates the immigrant Arab and Muslim-American community, holds that from her experience divorce is primarily due to lifestyle pressures.

“The main issue we see is that the husband gets tired of his responsibility and just walks out on the family. This is especially common with immigrants from Middle Eastern countries,” Kayali said. “People live under a lot of pressure in this country – long hours at work, everything is so expensive, documents, status – which they’re not used to overseas.”

“Domestic violence is another reason. The father hits his children and his wife, and the family or the neighbor calls the police and they take him away. Then the mother files for divorce. We’ve seen many stories like that,” Nahla continued. In these cases, the children end up with the mother or the system takes them until either parent can get them back.

According to Dr. Maher Hathout, senior advisor at the Islamic Center of Southern California in Los Angeles, the rise in Muslim divorce rates can be blamed partly on the recent “Me” culture, where people live only to make themselves happy.

“Here in the West and abroad where they are heavily influenced by the West, the ‘Me’ culture is overtaking our minds. False statements like ‘I have one life to live’ and ‘this is my life’ have been repeated enough times to suddenly become true,” Dr. Hathout said. “I ask, ‘Did you have a choice in your creation? Did you choose your life?’”

As a result of this phenomenon, Dr. Hathout explained, couples are dropping one another at the first signs of disagreement. “In Islam, the worst halal is talaq (divorce). Although it’s still halal, divorce is the last resort and should be avoided,” he said.

Looking back, Ambreen, now in her mid-20s, faults herself for not checking into Amr’s background before committing to the marriage. “When you fall in love, you sweep things under the rug because you convince yourself it’ll be better. Plus it was a long distance relationship, so we just looked forward to living together,” she said. “We both had different expectations in marriage—expectations based on surface things—and both of us were extremely disappointed,” Ambreen added.

The Need for Support
Ambreen said that divorce has been the most difficult and painful process, compounded by little to no support from the Muslim community. She sought counseling from imams, but they did not help. “I couldn’t count on anyone to talk to. I found several Christian support groups, but no Muslim ones. We don’t want to air dirty laundry, but it’s hurting us in the long run,” Ambreen said.
Dr. Mohamed Beshir agreed. “We have a terrible need for human resources. If someone is successful at this, they wouldn’t be able to keep up with the demand.”

Dr. Ekram Beshir pointed to family development programs, like the one held by MAS, as a solution. “We need to optimize our resources. If every community selected a core group to train people we can build a strong foundation.” She added that support groups should be made up of different generations so that newlyweds can learn from parents and so on.
According to Fazaga, it is critical for imams to have formal training in this area. He emphasized this issue as a necessary part of the solution. “People are already going to our imams so we have to qualify them,” he said. “Couples want real change, so it gets to be very frustrating because people trust imams but come out disappointed.” Fazaga is hopeful that the growing number of Muslim counselors and students going into the field will put pressure on community leaders.

Kayali and her organization strive to prevent unnecessary divorce through education. However, often that effort is wasted. “When we announce a workshop, no one comes. We provide parenting and educational sessions, but attendance is really low. And we haven’t seen one man come to our classes. It hurts their ego—they don’t believe in that,” she said.
ACCESS is one of the few support systems out there, and Kayali maintains that they will continue to provide for the immigrant community. “We offer counseling under the supervision of clinical psychologists, we can find mothers jobs, and we can offer financial assistance.” ACCESS gets about 3-4 clients a week for divorce issues.

The next time around, Ambreen insists that she knows everything about her fiancé. “I would need to know the guy’s family, how he interacts with them and his friends. I want to talk to his friends and find out about him through them. I want to find out his habits and such, and what he thinks about divorce, counseling, and how he deals with problems. I would do my homework,” she said.

Umm Ahmed
12th June 2007, 05:57 AM
People are becoming deluded by books and articles ,which leads them to think marriage has to be perfect, Its never perfect its really hard work , when your both off in the huff over something , you have to swallow your pride and go to them and just say sorry even if it was the other persons fault .

Sisters are not even cooking , brothers feel ashamed when they bring guests and they feed them takeaways, brothers also have faults , staying out with friends ect, but these things can be worked on , muslims give up and think it would be better if they are divorced , but once they are, they look back and regret.

Abuz Zubair
12th June 2007, 06:46 AM
You hit the nail on the head. Many people enter into marriage thinking it is going to be a bed of roses. Well, it is for the first year because during that period the two of you remain young and free. Then comes along the first addition and things change.

In fact, even during the first year most often it isn't the bed of roses, particularly because this is the testing period where the couple get to find out each other's weaknesses, and learn what to say or do, or what NOT to say or do. Often words said in the first year of marriage remain engraved in the partner's memory.

Sisters are not even cooking , brothers feel ashamed when they bring guests and they feed them takeaways, brothers also have faults , staying out with friends ect, but these things can be worked on , muslims give up and think it would be better if they are divorced , but once they are, they look back and regret

Well, if the sister doesn't cook at all, surely that is a problem. But I think there is a far greater problem with brothers expecting too much of their wives; like expecting them to cook each time guests arrive. She would go crazy if she were to provide 5-star services each time a guest arrives. This often leads to isolation of the family because the brother doesn't want guests around in case he is ashamed that either food is to bland, or that it's take away. If brothers didn't care about formalities, and sisters didn't care about competition, the world will be a much better place.

But brothers are too fussy, and sisters are too competitive.

Simplicity is the key to happiness.

Umm Ahmed
12th June 2007, 09:49 AM
lol thats funny I have been providing 5 star treatment for years , but some husbands expect this as its part of their culture , If someone comes then its expected that there will be more than one dish to choose from .
Is't that the same as in asian cultures ? Even in my family's house for guests there is usually a few dishes as well.
I dont mind KFC now and again, but I would feel so guilty if I did not cook.

Competition amoung sisters is a sickness from, clothes , phones and soft furnishings , men are the same with cars it can harm a marriage , especially if a sister is always looking up at those who have more.
Yes simplicity is the key .

Abu_Abdillah2000
12th June 2007, 10:08 AM
Also, here is another important point:

According to Dr. Maher Hathout, senior advisor at the Islamic Center of Southern California in Los Angeles, the rise in Muslim divorce rates can be blamed partly on the recent “Me” culture, where people live only to make themselves happy.

“Here in the West and abroad where they are heavily influenced by the West, the ‘Me’ culture is overtaking our minds. False statements like ‘I have one life to live’ and ‘this is my life’ have been repeated enough times to suddenly become true,” Dr. Hathout said. “I ask, ‘Did you have a choice in your creation? Did you choose your life?’”

In shar'i terms, this is called: "tashabbuh bil-kuffar" = imitating the kuffar.

The kuffar in the west (America in particular) are almost up to a 50% divorce rate. And yes it is primarily due to their rotten and falling-apart culture.

And the Muslims are just following them right into the lizard's hole. So much so that it can be hard to identify a Muslim from a kafir. So it's no wonder that the divorce rate of Muslims in the west is catching up to theirs.

Here is some proof from the article:

Looking back, Ambreen, now in her mid-20s, faults herself for not checking into Amr’s background before committing to the marriage. “When you fall in love, you sweep things under the rug because you convince yourself it’ll be better. Plus it was a long distance relationship, so we just looked forward to living together,” she said. “We both had different expectations in marriage—expectations based on surface things—and both of us were extremely disappointed,” Ambreen added.

Ambreen said that divorce has been the most difficult and painful process, compounded by little to no support from the Muslim community. She sought counseling from imams, but they did not help. “I couldn’t count on anyone to talk to. I found several Christian support groups, but no Muslim ones. We don’t want to air dirty laundry, but it’s hurting us in the long run,” Ambreen said.

"Falling in love", "long-distance relationships" (whatever that means!), the mere thought of going to Christian support groups... there's enough there for you to get a good idea at how far away from Islam most of these people are in the first place.

Um Abdullah M.
12th June 2007, 10:37 AM
a major problem also is that many young Muslims dont' realize that marriage is a big responsibility, not just love,
that you will face many challenges, and that their are things that you dont' know about in the person you want to get married to, that they are human and have faults which you most likely will not know about until after marriage, so then they become shocked after marriage when discovering that the person they thought was almost perfect has faults !

also they dont' know how to deal with these issues, related to marriage and marriage problems.

This is a very important topic.

Abuz Zubair
12th June 2007, 02:20 PM
lol thats funny I have been providing 5 star treatment for years , but some husbands expect this as its part of their culture , If someone comes then its expected that there will be more than one dish to choose from .

Well, if this happens to be the norm in a society, then this is what is expected of both of the couples, really. So I won't suggest that you should ever tell your husband: All right! I've had enough!

But in England we have multiculturalism. Not all Muslims here come from Pak, or Arab countries or elsewhere. In fact, many of the Muslims have lost touch with their culture. Others even hate the negative things about their parents' culture (and maybe rightly so).

What I have a distaste for is imposing one's cultural norms on others.

"Falling in love", "long-distance relationships" (whatever that means!), the mere thought of going to Christian support groups... there's enough there for you to get a good idea at how far away from Islam most of these people are in the first place.

Well, even if a marriage was based on short-distance relationship or arranged marriage such that the couples didn't see each other up until the wedding night, this would STILL not solve the problem. Similarly, there is no way a person can find out about the next person whether or not he/she would be a good spouse. You can only do so after have lived with your partner for a couple of years, and begetting kids in the process! And if people take that route, then there remains no need for the institution of marriage, which leads to obvious chaos and the breakdown of society.

the only solution is to change your own frame of mind. Do not expect much from your spouse.

Unfortunately, in the West we are bombarded with ideas of perfection in everything; perfection in beauty, perfection in worldly achievements, perfection in marriage and relationship, etc.

So you get average Jack and Jill on the street trying to be like the next Beckham and what's-her-name. Girls become anorexic and some even die in the process. And this is all so wrong.

No doubt, much of it has affected the Muslims living in the West, unfortunately.

so then they become shocked after marriage when discovering that the person they thought was almost perfect has faults

Well, this explains what I stated above. It is a fault to begin with to think of one's spouse is almost perfect. All of us have skeletons in the closet which we wouldn't like to expose to others, and rightly so.

And yes, I agree this is a very important topic - A LOT more important than the preliminary stages of, and the marriage contract itself.

Abu_Abdallah
12th June 2007, 03:11 PM
I follow a minor on migration studies and when I first saw the divorce statistics of Muslims in the Netherlands.. I felt ashamed.

We really are following the Kuffar, Jews and Christians, footsteps as the Prophet foretold about his Ummah.

WM
12th June 2007, 03:38 PM
Do you married guys think marriages are better when husband and wife have more in common? Should we be looking for this commonality when searching for a spouse? e.g. I have more in common with a Muslim 2nd gen Brit than some Arab FOB- right?

ibnfaruk
12th June 2007, 03:39 PM
Assalamualaikum to all, I think it is very easy for us to say that muslims are just following the west when it comes to divorce as brothers AbuAbdullah and Sharif have stated, I personally know many very pracising muslims who have divorced , they themselves should take responsibility for the divorce, the blame should not be shifted as we as muslims seem to think that we are beyond blame and are incapable of making huge errors in life without external influences like the kufaar.

Indeed this is a very complex issue and i feel that many couples seem to be living in cloud cucu land before they get married, expectations are sometimes a mirage to the realities of life, maybe a huge shift needs to be made by us and look at the qualities of an individual before looking at his/her material standing before getting married, i think that muslims generally have a problem with the 'other' we seem to be a selfish nation we always think about ourselves whether it be in a relationship, at the mosque, going to hajj, fastng (when it comes to break the fast), standing in a line ( have you ever seen a straight line at one of our airports or flights) is about me, me and lets not forget about me..........

May Allah swt help us all


salams

WM
12th June 2007, 03:43 PM
Hopefully the married brothers/sisters would be willing to give us an 'insider' perspective...

justabro
12th June 2007, 05:15 PM
So you get average Jack and Jill on the street trying to be like the next Beckham and what's-her-name. Girls become anorexic and some even die in the process. And this is all so wrong.
The answer is to start liking plump women once again ;)

If you read hadiths, you will find that it seems the Arabs liked their women on the big side (actually, it seems to me that that's still true). In fact, even if you look at what was considered the standard of beauty in the West from the time of the Renaissance until just recently, it was way different then now.

MosDef
12th June 2007, 05:27 PM
"Obesity is so revered among Mauritania's white Moor Arab population that the young girls are sometimes force-fed to obtain a weight the government has described as "life-threatening".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3429903.stm

These people have the opposite problem LOL.

With the case of cooking 5 star meals for guests - i would be happy if i got standard quality meals just for me :)

Umm Ahmed
12th June 2007, 05:29 PM
Do you married guys think marriages are better when husband and wife have more in common? Should we be looking for this commonality when searching for a spouse? e.g. I have more in common with a Muslim 2nd gen Brit than some Arab FOB- right?

Allaahu Allaam but I think its better to marry someone you have more in common with , in Uk you could have a lot in common with different nationalities {2nd generation}as they will all have been through the school system and be familiar with British culture in general.

If you marry someone who has a different culture completly then there will be a lot of places where you will clash , but those are bumps that can also be overcome.

But always marry someone for their taqwa I cant express that enough.

Abu_Abdillah2000
13th June 2007, 09:57 AM
Different ethnic backgrounds are not so much of a problem, however there are cultural issues that might cause clashes.

I know a Saudi brother who freaked out in his english lesson when they had to watch the movie "Shrek", because in one scene the green, ugly, animated, strange-looking cartoon-character Shrek and his wife/girlfriend kissed each other on the lips! The poor brother asked to be excused from the lesson and he went home!

If a brother like that married a sister who had grown up in the west (or vice-versa), can you imagine the arguments and problems that might happen if they were living in the west and one of them was to just switch on the TV?

So the importance of cultural differences should be recognised, particularly if both members of the couple were raised in very different environments from each other. However this doesn't necessarily mean that a couple originally from different cultural backgrounds but raised in the same environment would have this same problem.

But in the end, everyone is different. And ultimately it's about giving and taking. When you get married, you're not an individual any more. You have to think about how things will affect you both. Which needs maturity, patience at times, and the ability to understand each other.

Abuz Zubair
13th June 2007, 11:55 AM
I know a Saudi brother who freaked out in his english lesson when they had to watch the movie "Shrek", because in one scene the green, ugly, animated, strange-looking cartoon-character Shrek and his wife/girlfriend kissed each other on the lips! The poor brother asked to be excused from the lesson and he went home!

Well, this is more of a religious problem than cultural, I think. I wouldn't stand any member of my family watching that scene, even if they were classless and from the moon (and yes, even if the one kissing was Shrek).

To be honest, I wouldn't be watching such a film to begin with, nor would I like any of my family members watching it. There are a lot of alternatives to such entertainment. And if its something I won't allow my kids to watch, I wouldn't watch it either, because we all hated the hypocrisy in our parents and relatives that they would send us out of the room for five minutes, while they themselves remained seated to enjoy the scene!

But your argument is right, cultural differences must be considered, not only between the espouses, but also their families. And this is why I tell the brothers not to look abroad for espouses, due to the cultural difference that would ensue.

Even Pak sisters are not as subservient as they used to be, perhaps two decades ago. Most importantly, brothers should marry sisters from their own country so they understand the culture they are living in, and therefore understand the needs of their kids.

Some brothers, unfortunately, only think along the lines of, literally, buying a baby factory, an Indian takeaway, and an obedient housewife.

So I wrote something for these bruvs (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?p=32883#post32883), sometime back (no offence to anyone! Don't sue me!)

Niqaabis
14th June 2007, 06:30 PM
‘Umar b. al-Khattāb (r) in al-Kharā’itī’s (d. 327h) book on character:

ÍÏËäÇ ÇáÑãÇÏí ¡ ËäÇ ÃÕÈÛ Èä ÇáÝÑÌ ¡ ËäÇ ÇÈä æåÈ ¡ ÃÎÈÑäí íæäÓ ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÔåÇÈ ¡ Úä ÇáÓÇÆÈ Èä íÒíÏ Èä ãÇáß ÇáßäÇäí ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÃÈí ÚÒÑÉ ÇáÏÄáí ¡ æßÇä Ýí ÎáÇÝÉ ÚãÑ íÎáÚ ÇáäÓÇÁ ÇáÊí íÊÒæÌåÇ ¡ ÝØÇÑ áå Ýí ÇáäÇÓ ãä Ðáß ÃÍÏæËÉ ÝßÑååÇ ¡ ÝáãÇ Úáã ÈÐáß ¡ ÞÇã ÈÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÇáÃÑÞã ÍÊì ÃÏÎáå ÈíÊå ¡ ÝÞÇá áÇãÑÃÊå ¡ æÇÈä ÇáÃÑÞã íÓãÚ : ÃäÔÏß ÈÇááå ¡ åá ÊÈÛÖíääí ¿ ÝÞÇáÊ ÇãÑÃÊå : áÇ ÊäÇÔÏäí . ÞÇá : Èáì . ÝÞÇáÊ : Çááåã äÚã . ÝÞÇá ÇÈä ÃÈí ÚÒÑÉ áÚÈÏ Çááå : ÃÊÓãÚ . Ëã ÇäØáÞ ÍÊì ÃÊì ÚãÑ ¡ Ëã ÞÇá : íÇ ÃãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä ¡ íÍÏËæä Ãäí ÃÙáã ÇáäÓÇÁ ¡ æÃÎáÚåä ¡ ÝÇÓÃá ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÇáÃÑÞã ÚãÇ ÓãÚ ãä ÇãÑÃÊí ¡ ÝÓÃá ÚãÑ ÚÈÏ Çááå ¡ ÝÃÎÈÑå ¡ ÝÃÑÓá ÚãÑ Åáì ÇãÑÃÊå ¡ ÝÌÇÁÊ ¡ ÝÞÇá áåÇ : « ÃäÊ ÇáÊí ÊÍÏËíä ÒæÌß Ãäß ÊÈÛÖíäå ¿ » ¡ ÞÇáÊ : íÇ ÃãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä ¡ Åäí Ãæá ãä ÊÇÈ ¡ æÑÇÌÚ ÃãÑ Çááå ¡ Åäå íÇ ÃãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä ÃäÔÏäí ÈÇááå ¡ ÝÊÍÑÌÊ Ãä ÃßÐÈ ¡ ÃÝÃßÐÈ íÇ ÃãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä ¿ ÞÇá : « äÚã ¡ ÝÇßÐÈí ¡ ÝÅä ßÇäÊ ÅÍÏÇßä áÇ ÊÍÈ ÃÍÏÇ ¡ ÝáÇ ÊÍÏËå ÈÐáß ¡ ÝÅä ÃÞá ÇáÈíæÊ ÇáÐí íÈäì Úáì ÇáÍÈ ¡ æáßä ÇáäÇÓ íÊÚÇÔÑæä ÈÇáÅÓáÇã ¡ æÇáÅÍÓÇä

Translation:

“From Abu ‘Azrah al-Du’ali who lived during the time of ‘Umar (r) and was known for marrying women and then separating from them, until he became known by the people for doing so, and stories would be told about him. When he heard of this, he took Abdullah ibn al-Arqam home with him, and while he was listening, asked his wife, “I implore you with God’s name: Do you hate me?”

“Don’t implore me like that,” she said.

He said, “Yet I do.”

“By God, yes.” she said.

Abu ‘Azrah said to Abdullah, “Did you hear that?” They then left and went to ‘Umar, [Abu ‘Azrah] saying to him, “People say I wrong women and then separate from them. Ask Abdullah what he heard from my wife.” He did so, and ‘Umar having heard what she had said, sent for his wife.

He said to her, “Are you the one that goes and tells her husband that she hates him?”

She said, “Oh Leader of the Faithful, I am the first to repent and turn back to God’s command. He implored me in God’s name, so what was I supposed to do? Lie? I felt wrong lying!”

“Then lie,” said ‘Umar. “If one of you doesn’t love someone else they shouldn’t say so. Few are those houses that are built upon love; rather people get along by depending upon Islam and Ihsan to one another.”

Taken from the blog of 'Abu 'Eesaa, Full post read here (http://alternativeentertainment.wordpress.com/2007/06/02/whats-love-got-to-do-with-it/)

Umm Ahmed
14th June 2007, 06:42 PM
Thats really deep subhanAllaah . There is something I read or heard but cant recall where saying , marry someone with taqwa because they will treat you well even in they dislike you.
Loving your spouse is permissible though and makes the ups and downs of marriage easier.

Niqaabis
14th June 2007, 08:44 PM
Is it this

A man asked Hassan bin 'Alee radiAllaahu anhu, "I have a daughter and people have proposed to her, so to whom should i marry her [to]?"

He said, "Marry her to one who fears Allaah, for if he loves her, he will honour her; and if he hates her, he will not wrong her."

Um Abdullah M.
15th June 2007, 06:19 AM
Well, this is more of a religious problem than cultural, I think. I wouldn't stand any member of my family watching that scene, even if they were classless and from the moon (and yes, even if the one kissing was Shrek).

I agree with you there, it has to do with deen not culture.
and I too would not allow my children to see such things, nor do I look at it.

because we all hated the hypocrisy in our parents and relatives that they would send us out of the room for five minutes, while they themselves remained seated to enjoy the scene!

alhamdulillah, my parents were not hypocrites in this, they had a big role in raising us up not to look at such scenes and that it is not acceptable.
I remember when we were little and we were watching a disney cartoon movie, and almost every one of them had to have a kissing scene, and my parents would be sitting watching with us, and when there was a scene like that, they would change the channel immediatly, so we understood from that, that such scenes are not acceptable for us to see, and we grew up not liking to see such scenes, even if the husband and wife do it, doesn't mean it is ok for them to watch other people do it, whether those others are married or not.
So you can see my parents also didn't watch such scenes, they just flipped the channel, and we all stayed in the room, and after about a minute they switched it back.

now, they dont' watch any TV except the news.

But your argument is right, cultural differences must be considered, not only between the espouses, but also their families. And this is why I tell the brothers not to look abroad for espouses, due to the cultural difference that would ensue.

That would depend on the person who is living abroad, they might have lived all their childhood, and teenage years in their home country then traveled abroad, then there is not much problem if he marries someone from his home country or another country which has a culture similar to his.
But if they grew up in the west, then it is better to marry someone who doesn't care much about culture, or was raised in the west themselves, in which one doesn't really have much of a culture, if they are practicing, deen would be their culture.

me and my husband are from 2 different countries, both arab countries, and our cultures are very similar, but the culture isn't what really mattered, because both of us dont' care about culture if it contradicts sunnah, and deen is most important thing to us, so deen is our culture, we also have same ideas and plans regarding raising our children and that is very very important in my opinion, I think if both did not agree on most things in regards to raising the children there would be many problems and it could destroy the marriage.

Even Pak sisters are not as subservient as they used to be, perhaps two decades ago. Most importantly, brothers should marry sisters from their own country so they understand the culture they are living in, and therefore understand the needs of their kids.

actually that is in many countries where women were subservient, including arab countries, even my own home country, not only pakistan, just look for a sister who is practicing and knows her deen, insha Allah she will be obedient but not necessarly agree with you on everything or be perfect, even Umar bin al Khattab's (r.A.) wife argued with him, and he was patient with her, I think most of you maybe know the story?

Umm Ahmed
15th June 2007, 07:04 AM
Is it this

A man asked Hassan bin 'Alee radiAllaahu anhu, "I have a daughter and people have proposed to her, so to whom should i marry her [to]?"

He said, "Marry her to one who fears Allaah, for if he loves her, he will honour her; and if he hates her, he will not wrong her."

Yes , JazakAllaahu khayran .

UmmAbdulMalikStorm
20th June 2007, 09:34 PM
I love shrek :(

Its so funny :(